WEBVTT 00:00.900 --> 00:26.600 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 00:26.600 --> 00:28.766 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 00:28.766 --> 00:32.400 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 00:32.400 --> 00:36.300 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% -Do you consider this music as a weapon? 00:36.300 --> 00:39.166 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 00:39.166 --> 00:40.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -You mean as a weapon in the fight 00:40.633 --> 00:42.533 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% against discrimination and things like that? 00:42.533 --> 00:44.833 align:left position:45% line:83% size:45% -Yes. -Sometimes the music is used, 00:44.833 --> 00:49.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% say, to make people feel happy and joy, 00:49.133 --> 00:55.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but on some occasions, we do use the music as a weapon 00:55.133 --> 00:58.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% against man's inhumanity toward man. 00:58.700 --> 01:02.466 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -It is with great pleasure that I present to you 01:02.466 --> 01:05.000 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% Mr. Max Roach. 01:05.000 --> 01:07.266 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Cheers and applause ] 01:07.266 --> 01:09.733 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:09.733 --> 01:12.300 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:12.300 --> 01:15.500 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% Well, jazz is, to me, a nickname. 01:15.500 --> 01:18.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% To me, it's synonymous to "nigger" and things like that. 01:18.933 --> 01:20.133 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% That's not the proper name 01:20.133 --> 01:24.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% for African-American instrumental music. 01:24.866 --> 01:26.866 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Drumming continues ] 01:26.866 --> 01:30.600 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:30.600 --> 01:35.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% It never was a name that we, as musicians, gave to it. 01:35.166 --> 01:37.833 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% It was a name that just was given to it. 01:37.833 --> 01:39.300 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% -So you're not a jazz musician? 01:39.300 --> 01:41.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -No, I'm an African-American musician, 01:41.733 --> 01:45.766 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and that's the kind of music that I play... 01:45.766 --> 01:48.433 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% or I attempt to play. 01:48.433 --> 01:50.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -The Max Roach archive at the Library of Congress 01:50.966 --> 01:54.966 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% is extensive -- stills, audio recordings. 01:54.966 --> 01:56.466 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Oh, I've seen this one already. 01:56.466 --> 01:59.633 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% He knew that to document his legacy would be very important. 01:59.633 --> 02:01.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% These are the '80s. -Mm-hmm. 02:01.533 --> 02:03.100 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% -Check this out. 02:03.100 --> 02:08.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I began this film in 1987, so it's 35 years. 02:08.000 --> 02:10.366 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% That's a long journey. 02:10.366 --> 02:14.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% In 1983, I was editing a documentary 02:14.433 --> 02:18.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% about the poet Langston Hughes, and one of the sequences 02:18.500 --> 02:23.166 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% was Max performing to one of Langston Hughes' poems. 02:23.166 --> 02:26.266 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 02:26.266 --> 02:29.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% -Seeing Max Roach sit behind a drum set, 02:29.866 --> 02:31.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% he had a regal quality about him. 02:31.966 --> 02:34.400 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% It was like no wasted motion. 02:34.400 --> 02:36.466 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Just wonderful, man. 02:36.466 --> 02:40.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I remember saying, "Somebody should do a film on Max Roach." 02:42.100 --> 02:43.533 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% [ Beep ] 02:43.533 --> 02:45.900 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I had never directed anything. I was just an editor. 02:45.900 --> 02:49.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% But in 1987, I was able to do my first sit-down 02:49.666 --> 02:51.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% on-camera interview with Max at his house 02:51.400 --> 02:53.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% up on Central Park West. 02:53.033 --> 02:57.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -I got the cameras on me, and Sam is shooting, 02:57.400 --> 02:58.466 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% telling us where to go, 02:58.466 --> 03:00.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and Juan has got his camera on me now. 03:00.633 --> 03:03.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% -And we shot Max and his wonderful band M'Boom 03:03.866 --> 03:07.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the rehearsal session performing Monk's tunes. 03:07.033 --> 03:09.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Mid-tempo tune plays ] 03:09.666 --> 03:16.933 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 03:16.933 --> 03:20.233 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And unbeknownst to me, Ben Shapiro, a fellow filmmaker, 03:20.233 --> 03:23.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% was doing audio recordings with Max Roach. 03:23.266 --> 03:24.600 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Ben was a drummer, 03:24.600 --> 03:28.400 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and he had been studying Max's music and this book 03:28.400 --> 03:32.866 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% that had many exercises that had Max's approach to the drums. 03:32.866 --> 03:37.300 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 03:37.300 --> 03:42.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -The drum set itself, that is a uniquely American innovation. 03:42.200 --> 03:45.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -So I learned that as I was shooting Max Roach, 03:45.300 --> 03:47.766 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% Ben was doing a long audio interview 03:47.766 --> 03:50.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% where Max documented his whole life story. 03:50.333 --> 03:54.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -I'm into the whole political thing. 03:54.366 --> 03:58.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% To me, everything has that kind of meaning to it, you know? 03:58.033 --> 04:00.233 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Drumming ] 04:00.233 --> 04:03.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -Now after three decades, we're finishing this film 04:03.600 --> 04:05.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to tell the story of Max Roach. 04:07.733 --> 04:09.233 align:left position:42.5% line:83% size:47.5% Ready? -Mm-hmm. 04:09.233 --> 04:10.366 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% -Thank you, Maxine, 04:10.366 --> 04:15.600 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% sitting down finally to do an interview. 04:15.600 --> 04:17.633 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% How come, you think, in your opinion, 04:17.633 --> 04:20.800 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% that your dad's not as recognized today, 04:20.800 --> 04:24.833 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% even in the 21st century, as Miles Davis is? 04:24.833 --> 04:26.833 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% -I think it's the path he took... 04:26.833 --> 04:30.033 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% [ Doorbell rings ] ...his life and politics. 04:30.033 --> 04:31.800 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% -Hi, there. How are you doing? -How are you? 04:31.800 --> 04:35.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And then maybe it's just the way we are trained to hear music. 04:35.600 --> 04:39.833 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% You know, the drummer is not really supposed to be the lead, 04:39.833 --> 04:42.666 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and he fought against that, and he created. 04:42.666 --> 04:48.000 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% You know, his drum inventions are just beautiful. 04:48.000 --> 04:50.266 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 04:50.266 --> 04:56.366 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 04:56.366 --> 05:02.533 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 05:02.533 --> 05:05.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% -Max has this way of playing 05:05.633 --> 05:08.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that seems so effortless. 05:08.333 --> 05:12.733 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 05:12.733 --> 05:15.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% -[ Laughs ] But when you understand what it is, 05:15.933 --> 05:21.333 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% it's quite unique and it's... 05:21.333 --> 05:24.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Yeah. It's deep. 05:24.966 --> 05:26.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Camera shutter clicks ] 05:28.700 --> 05:30.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Camera shutter clicks ] 05:30.066 --> 05:37.166 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 05:37.166 --> 05:39.533 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% -I guess from the very beginning, 05:39.533 --> 05:43.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% my aspirations were to be involved in music, 05:43.366 --> 05:47.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and especially this music that we call jazz. 05:47.266 --> 05:50.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -The music was the salvation. It was like sports is today. 05:50.366 --> 05:52.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It's like basketball. That was it. 05:52.533 --> 05:55.700 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We'd go to sit in the theaters on Saturdays all day 05:55.700 --> 06:00.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% with our lunch and watch these wonderful musicians. 06:00.666 --> 06:04.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -My father bought me my first set of drums 06:04.233 --> 06:06.533 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% for graduating elementary school. 06:06.533 --> 06:08.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That was the only gift I wanted. 06:08.633 --> 06:10.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And I would set the drum up right 06:10.533 --> 06:14.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so that when I got out of my bed in the mornings to go to school, 06:14.133 --> 06:16.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% my bed was the drum seat. 06:16.933 --> 06:20.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So I would get up in the morning before I'd go to school 06:20.266 --> 06:23.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and actually just sit at them drums and imagine 06:23.333 --> 06:26.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% that I was Papa Jo or Big Sidney Catlett. 06:26.366 --> 06:30.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I couldn't play that early and couldn't wait to get home. 06:30.433 --> 06:32.300 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Now this is 13, 14. -Right. 06:32.300 --> 06:35.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -So after I finished whatever chores my family 06:35.900 --> 06:39.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% had for me to do and finished my homework, 06:39.233 --> 06:40.866 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% just sit down and play them drums 06:40.866 --> 06:43.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% until it was -- until the neighbors would come to the door 06:43.933 --> 06:45.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and say, "Well, Mrs. Roach, that boy is just making 06:45.900 --> 06:47.433 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% too much noise." 06:47.433 --> 06:49.600 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Drumming ] 06:49.600 --> 06:55.333 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 06:55.333 --> 07:01.166 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 07:01.166 --> 07:03.100 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% But that kind of discipline, 07:03.100 --> 07:05.133 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% you become almost a fanatic to it 07:05.133 --> 07:06.900 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% after you get involved in it. 07:06.900 --> 07:13.766 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 07:13.766 --> 07:20.733 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 07:20.733 --> 07:23.066 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Applause ] 07:25.400 --> 07:27.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -And so once again, ladies and gentlemen, 07:27.433 --> 07:30.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% we take our WMCA microphones right down to the Royal Roost, 07:30.466 --> 07:31.800 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% bringing you the new sound, 07:31.800 --> 07:33.933 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% Charlie Parker and the All-Stars -- 07:33.933 --> 07:38.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Miles Davis on trumpet, the great Max Roach on drums. 07:38.100 --> 07:41.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -We started the so-called bebop movement. 07:41.400 --> 07:44.200 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% We had a little coalition of folks, if you will -- 07:44.200 --> 07:46.833 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% Dizzy and Charlie Parker, 07:46.833 --> 07:51.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Bud Powell, Monk, and Miles. 07:51.766 --> 07:53.233 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% We all kind of clung together. 07:53.233 --> 07:55.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% For whatever reasons, we related to each other, 07:55.966 --> 07:58.333 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% and we hated to sleep. 07:58.333 --> 08:01.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We would work from 9:00 till 9:00 the next morning 08:01.466 --> 08:04.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% in two different clubs. 08:04.300 --> 08:07.100 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Up-tempo tune plays ] 08:07.100 --> 08:10.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We would then go up to Dizzy's house on 7th Avenue 08:10.433 --> 08:13.733 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% and sit down and exchange ideas 08:13.733 --> 08:19.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and talk about different musicians and analyze styles. 08:19.066 --> 08:21.833 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% -We were just young musicians. 08:21.833 --> 08:24.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Wherever the music was, we would go. 08:24.633 --> 08:28.333 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% So I'd always go to Max's house and sit in the corner 08:28.333 --> 08:31.466 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% and watch and listen, 'cause he always had 08:31.466 --> 08:34.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% all the heavyweights there with this new music. 08:34.800 --> 08:38.166 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So one day, Max said, "Hey, Randy, 08:38.166 --> 08:40.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% play one of your songs for Charlie Parker." 08:40.566 --> 08:43.833 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Man, Sam, I was like this, 08:43.833 --> 08:49.166 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% 'cause Charlie Parker was not only a great musician, 08:49.166 --> 08:51.400 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% he was a powerful, spiritual human being. 08:51.400 --> 08:54.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Something about him was very sp-- I can't explain it. 08:54.800 --> 09:01.000 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 09:01.000 --> 09:03.900 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -When Miles and I were working with Charlie Parker, 09:03.900 --> 09:06.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% his first piece would be his warm-up piece. 09:06.433 --> 09:09.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It'd be the fastest thing we'd perform for that night. 09:09.833 --> 09:12.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it would just destroy Miles and myself. 09:12.566 --> 09:14.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, I'd be puffing and blowing. 09:14.366 --> 09:16.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Miles would be, you know, just -- 09:16.400 --> 09:18.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% it would just reduce us to nothing. 09:18.400 --> 09:19.833 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% He'd just breeze through it. 09:19.833 --> 09:24.533 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And we would practice all day to get ready for this gentleman. 09:24.533 --> 09:27.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I had a lot of freedom working with Charlie Parker. 09:27.200 --> 09:30.300 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% He would just write one sheet of music for Miles. 09:30.300 --> 09:32.466 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% He'd write a trumpet part. 09:32.466 --> 09:34.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And he'd look over at me and just tell me 09:34.600 --> 09:37.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that I had freedom to do what I wanted to do. 09:37.500 --> 09:40.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I would find my own way. 09:40.233 --> 09:44.766 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Drumming ] 09:44.766 --> 09:48.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -Early bebop just had that shock of the new. 09:48.100 --> 09:51.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It was just something challenging, intimidating. 09:51.566 --> 09:53.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% You know, people just really couldn't figure out 09:53.366 --> 09:56.166 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% where you're supposed to pat your foot. 09:56.166 --> 09:59.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Up-tempo tune plays ] 09:59.800 --> 10:02.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And all of that is by design, you know? 10:02.566 --> 10:05.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Rhythmically, melodically, harmonically, 10:05.333 --> 10:08.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% they wanted to just get up in the music 10:08.033 --> 10:11.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and then just start toying with every aspect of it. 10:11.066 --> 10:13.600 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 10:13.600 --> 10:15.666 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% There was a confrontational quality 10:15.666 --> 10:18.633 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% forcing the audience to receive them on their own terms. 10:18.633 --> 10:20.733 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% And, of course, it changed the content, 10:20.733 --> 10:25.333 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% the form, the virtuosity level of jazz forever. 10:25.333 --> 10:29.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -It just blew my mind to hear music played 10:29.433 --> 10:33.300 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% as well as they did with this new flavor 10:33.300 --> 10:36.200 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and new harmonic, and the speed. 10:36.200 --> 10:42.100 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 10:42.100 --> 10:44.700 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% -The first time I heard Bird's group, 10:44.700 --> 10:46.733 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% you know, it was interesting. 10:46.733 --> 10:48.033 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% I didn't dislike it, 10:48.033 --> 10:51.466 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% but eventually... 10:51.466 --> 10:54.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I got what they were doing, you know? 10:54.000 --> 10:58.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Then I realized that this was the music for our generation, 10:58.933 --> 11:01.866 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% what Charlie Parker was doing and Max. 11:01.866 --> 11:04.900 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% -There was no other kind of music for me but that. 11:04.900 --> 11:09.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And night after night, Marlon Brando and myself 11:09.266 --> 11:11.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and a couple of others just sit there 11:11.433 --> 11:14.566 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and listen to one great genius after the other. 11:14.566 --> 11:18.366 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 11:18.366 --> 11:22.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Bebop wasn't just being sweet and joyous 11:22.200 --> 11:25.233 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% like Louis Armstrong. 11:25.233 --> 11:28.533 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% It came by as an outraged expression 11:28.533 --> 11:29.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% of the time in which we lived, 11:29.900 --> 11:33.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and it found great synergy with young Black people. 11:33.566 --> 11:36.433 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 11:36.433 --> 11:40.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -It was a new political feeling among the guys. 11:40.900 --> 11:43.333 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% You know, this is right after the war, 11:43.333 --> 11:47.566 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and Bird and Max and Miles 11:47.566 --> 11:49.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% exemplified that. 11:49.200 --> 11:53.933 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 11:53.933 --> 11:58.633 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% -I'm just so glad I came up with that kind of influence, 11:58.633 --> 12:01.600 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% because they were so progressive, 12:01.600 --> 12:04.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and the goal was to get jazz musicians 12:04.433 --> 12:07.166 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% so they did not just have to entertain. 12:07.166 --> 12:10.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% They wanted to be an artist just like Stravinsky. 12:10.766 --> 12:14.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Down-tempo tune plays ] 12:14.000 --> 12:16.866 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 12:16.866 --> 12:21.066 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -In the late '40s, most artists used something 12:21.066 --> 12:26.766 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% before they'd perform to give them that lift, 12:26.766 --> 12:30.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and marijuana -- that was the big thing, 12:30.433 --> 12:34.333 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and also cocaine, but cocaine might be, like, New Year's Eve. 12:34.333 --> 12:37.533 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% That was a rich man's drug. 12:37.533 --> 12:39.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Then all of a sudden, the powers that be 12:39.966 --> 12:44.033 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% put out this drug that nobody ever heard of before. 12:44.033 --> 12:45.166 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% What's the difference? 12:45.166 --> 12:47.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% It doesn't smell, 12:47.233 --> 12:51.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% very cheap, gets you high, and nobody knows. 12:51.933 --> 12:54.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Nobody knew what it was. 12:54.100 --> 12:57.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And they came with this heroin, and this thing spread. 12:57.666 --> 13:02.833 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -And so you got in that stupid trend of everybody else, 13:02.833 --> 13:06.733 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and that's what Trane and Miles and all of us did. 13:06.733 --> 13:09.233 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% But we weren't the only ones. 13:09.233 --> 13:11.566 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Max had delved, too. 13:13.733 --> 13:16.500 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -I was in a bad way as far as drugs 13:16.500 --> 13:19.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and other things were concerned. 13:19.300 --> 13:22.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I got in trouble, and I got locked up. 13:22.033 --> 13:24.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And my mother came to get me out of jail. 13:24.833 --> 13:28.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% She did day work, and she scrubbed people's floors. 13:28.533 --> 13:30.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And she came, she said, "You know, son, 13:30.200 --> 13:33.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% I got calluses on my knees." 13:33.066 --> 13:35.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And I thought she meant from scrubbing floors. 13:35.933 --> 13:38.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So I said, "Mom, when I get out of this nonsense 13:38.533 --> 13:40.000 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% I'm in now, I'm gonna see to it 13:40.000 --> 13:41.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that you don't have to do that anymore." 13:41.666 --> 13:43.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% She said, "No, son, I'm not talking about working. 13:43.933 --> 13:46.000 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% I'm talking about praying. 13:46.000 --> 13:49.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I'm praying so hard for you to get your act together 13:49.933 --> 13:52.466 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% till my knees have calluses on them." 13:52.466 --> 13:57.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And so I decided then I had to change my way of living. 13:57.000 --> 13:58.733 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% I went to the hospital. 13:58.733 --> 14:01.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% The hospital that took me in was a Catholic hospital. 14:01.900 --> 14:04.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And the next morning when I woke up, 14:04.066 --> 14:06.866 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the sister came into my bed and said that I had a daughter. 14:06.866 --> 14:10.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% My wife was in the hospital, and Maxine was born. 14:10.100 --> 14:13.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% From that day on, my life began to straighten itself out 14:13.666 --> 14:16.433 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% as far as drugs and all the other things 14:16.433 --> 14:19.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% that were concerned. 14:19.633 --> 14:20.933 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% -Max, you were very well known 14:20.933 --> 14:22.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% because of the many great records you've made 14:22.533 --> 14:25.400 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% with both Charlie and Dizzy. 14:25.400 --> 14:28.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% When did you form your own quintet? 14:28.066 --> 14:32.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -This is about 1953 on the West Coast, 14:32.033 --> 14:36.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and the great Clifford Brown, Harold Land, 14:36.500 --> 14:40.100 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and Richie Powell and George Morrow. 14:40.100 --> 14:42.366 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It was the first quintet 14:42.366 --> 14:46.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that we made some records with that caught on, 14:46.533 --> 14:49.466 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% I would say, among the jazz public. 14:49.466 --> 14:56.466 align:left position:47.5% line:89% size:42.5% ♪♪ 14:56.466 --> 15:03.500 align:left position:47.5% line:89% size:42.5% ♪♪ 15:03.500 --> 15:13.500 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 15:13.500 --> 15:15.166 align:left position:47.5% line:89% size:42.5% ♪♪ 15:15.166 --> 15:19.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -The first time I saw Max Roach perform was in Chicago 15:19.400 --> 15:22.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% at a new nightclub called the Beehive. 15:22.666 --> 15:25.266 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 15:25.266 --> 15:27.066 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% It was Max and Clifford Brown, 15:27.066 --> 15:30.033 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% and one of my friends leaned over and said something. 15:30.033 --> 15:32.933 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% "Max is playing so loud I can't hear the rest of the guys." 15:32.933 --> 15:36.200 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% You know, and Clifford read his lips 15:36.200 --> 15:39.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and turned around and said something to Max, 15:39.000 --> 15:42.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then Max immediately softened down. 15:42.333 --> 15:45.866 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% And I regarded Max as God, you know, 15:45.866 --> 15:48.600 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and the fact that he could accept criticism 15:48.600 --> 15:51.400 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% from someone that was younger than he showed me 15:51.400 --> 15:55.800 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% what a sensitive musician he was in the first place, you know? 15:55.800 --> 16:02.600 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 16:02.600 --> 16:05.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -When I formed the group with Clifford Brown, of course, 16:05.300 --> 16:10.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% then I began to do things that I would do as a leader. 16:10.100 --> 16:12.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I was responsible for the direction 16:12.000 --> 16:14.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that the group was going musically, et cetera. 16:14.800 --> 16:18.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And I had a chance then to develop the things 16:18.433 --> 16:23.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I felt were important to what I wanted to do with the music. 16:23.166 --> 16:26.966 align:left position:47.5% line:89% size:42.5% ♪♪ 16:26.966 --> 16:35.200 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 16:35.200 --> 16:37.433 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% -Beautiful. 16:37.433 --> 16:40.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Max and Clifford Brown together? Incredible, man. 16:40.200 --> 16:48.933 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 16:48.933 --> 16:50.900 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% -Man, when we were kids in Philadelphia 16:50.900 --> 16:52.300 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% and they used to come, 16:52.300 --> 16:54.033 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% and we would be there for every note, 16:54.033 --> 16:55.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% 'cause it was Max leading 16:55.500 --> 16:59.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one of the most exciting groups of our time, 16:59.666 --> 17:02.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and Clifford was like a star out of nowhere. 17:02.533 --> 17:07.766 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 17:07.766 --> 17:13.000 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 17:13.000 --> 17:16.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -Brownie was one of the most complete musicians 17:16.366 --> 17:17.366 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% I had worked with. 17:17.366 --> 17:20.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% He could play drums, he played piano, 17:20.666 --> 17:23.433 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and he was a good composer. 17:23.433 --> 17:25.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We shared an apartment together. 17:25.433 --> 17:28.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I had a piano in it, so every morning 17:28.700 --> 17:31.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% we'd wake up to see who would get to the piano first. 17:31.900 --> 17:35.166 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 17:35.166 --> 17:36.600 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% The beginning of this story, 17:36.600 --> 17:38.933 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I had heard Clifford Brown originally on a record. 17:38.933 --> 17:42.266 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I was in California at a place called the Lighthouse. 17:42.266 --> 17:45.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I was there -- to go out there on a six-month contract. 17:45.533 --> 17:48.300 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% It was about 1951. 17:48.300 --> 17:52.266 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I'll never forget Howard Rumsey riding me up and down 17:52.266 --> 17:55.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% this beautiful enclave on the Pacific Ocean 17:55.266 --> 17:58.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% out there in California, trying to find an apartment. 17:58.066 --> 18:00.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% John Levine owned the Lighthouse, 18:00.833 --> 18:05.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% so finally Mr. Levine said, "Listen, you know I'm Jewish, 18:05.100 --> 18:07.566 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and I had to buy up half of the [bleep]damn town 18:07.566 --> 18:11.566 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% before I could get a place to live here." 18:11.566 --> 18:15.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But I'd heard Clifford on the record with J.J. Johnson. 18:15.000 --> 18:16.966 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% I'll never forget that record. 18:16.966 --> 18:19.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I called him up, and he said, "Fine," you know. 18:19.500 --> 18:22.000 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% He was about 22 at that time. 18:22.000 --> 18:23.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And he had a great sense of humor. 18:23.966 --> 18:27.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% He never engaged in any kind of narcotics 18:27.166 --> 18:28.200 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% or anything like that. 18:28.200 --> 18:29.933 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Never even drank, in fact. 18:29.933 --> 18:33.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think one thing that he did do that I found out about 18:33.366 --> 18:35.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% after we had been together about a year 18:35.633 --> 18:37.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% was he loved to play the horses. 18:37.766 --> 18:39.666 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Laughter ] 18:39.666 --> 18:43.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Now, that was a contradiction to such a clean living. 18:43.900 --> 18:45.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -At the Rouge Lounge all this week 18:45.600 --> 18:47.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% is one of the great jazz groups in the country today, 18:47.400 --> 18:49.633 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and that's the Max Roach Cliff Brown Ensemble, 18:49.633 --> 18:51.733 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% and with us tonight is one of the outstanding 18:51.733 --> 18:53.266 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% jazz trumpeters in the country today, 18:53.266 --> 18:55.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% EmArcy recording star Clifford Brown. 18:55.666 --> 18:57.833 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Up-tempo tune plays ] 18:57.833 --> 19:04.400 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 19:04.400 --> 19:06.133 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% -Soft power. 19:08.866 --> 19:12.100 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Beautiful, exquisite tone, 19:12.100 --> 19:16.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% but yet it was this controlled power. 19:16.466 --> 19:21.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Unsurpassed ability to handle that trumpet. 19:21.133 --> 19:27.600 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 19:27.600 --> 19:34.066 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 19:34.066 --> 19:35.900 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% -So Max got that group, 19:35.900 --> 19:39.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and that group really took a hold of the public. 19:39.366 --> 19:43.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Then it went up another notch when Harold Land left the group 19:43.500 --> 19:45.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and Sonny Rollins took his place. 19:45.966 --> 19:50.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% -On the tenor saxophone, the guy who brings us all up here 19:50.866 --> 19:53.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% the most pleasure -- Sonny Rollins. 19:53.700 --> 19:56.600 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Applause ] 19:56.600 --> 19:58.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% The man behind the drum, 19:58.266 --> 20:01.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% undoubtedly the world's greatest -- Max Roach. 20:01.733 --> 20:04.133 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Applause ] 20:05.933 --> 20:08.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I play the trumpet. My name is Clifford Brown. 20:08.833 --> 20:10.700 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Applause ] 20:10.700 --> 20:13.700 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Up-tempo tune plays ] 20:13.700 --> 20:22.533 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 20:22.533 --> 20:31.400 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 20:31.400 --> 20:40.233 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 20:40.233 --> 20:49.100 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 20:49.100 --> 20:53.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -If you have a Clifford Brown and a Sonny Rollins, 20:53.133 --> 20:55.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that's a heck of a group. 20:55.100 --> 20:58.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So you write accordingly, and you give them so much 20:58.166 --> 21:00.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and they take it to another level. 21:00.233 --> 21:09.233 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 21:09.233 --> 21:18.266 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 21:18.266 --> 21:23.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% -Okay. Wow. Boy, I haven't heard that in 5 million years. 21:23.100 --> 21:26.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% That band was really going strong. 21:26.233 --> 21:28.700 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Max Roach Clifford Brown Band, 21:28.700 --> 21:30.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% or Clifford Brown Max Roach Band. 21:30.700 --> 21:33.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% It didn't matter, because they were that cool 21:33.866 --> 21:35.766 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% about ego and all this stuff. 21:35.766 --> 21:38.900 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% With them, it didn't matter. 21:38.900 --> 21:40.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -The relationship we had was something like 21:40.866 --> 21:43.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% nothing I'd ever experienced before. 21:43.400 --> 21:45.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We respected and loved each other, 21:45.900 --> 21:47.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and it was really like a family. 21:47.200 --> 21:48.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We protected each other. 21:48.800 --> 21:52.200 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And they all listened to me because I was the oldest. 21:52.200 --> 21:54.033 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% -Everybody had their own music, 21:54.033 --> 21:56.233 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% but, you know, the concept of the band, 21:56.233 --> 21:58.500 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% as far as I can see, was Max Roach. 21:58.500 --> 22:02.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Max Roach was really the figure. 22:02.900 --> 22:05.533 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% His drum style and everything 22:05.533 --> 22:08.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% was what the band was about, really. 22:08.766 --> 22:13.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Plus, he was a god before I played with him. 22:13.600 --> 22:16.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Yeah, he was a great drummer, but then everybody knew Max 22:16.566 --> 22:20.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% as sort of a big celebrity in the Black community. 22:20.700 --> 22:24.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I mean, it wasn't just the music community we knew him, 22:24.500 --> 22:27.800 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% but he then became like a movie star. 22:27.800 --> 22:29.633 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% -Go, Max! 22:29.633 --> 22:32.900 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 22:32.900 --> 22:38.433 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% -The guys that were top drummers were Art Blakey and Max Roach. 22:38.433 --> 22:42.433 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% So Art Blakey was more the elemental guy. 22:42.433 --> 22:44.266 align:left position:42.5% line:5% size:47.5% I mean, when you go back to Africa, 22:44.266 --> 22:47.333 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% did those guys study how to read music, anything? 22:47.333 --> 22:49.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% No. They had it. 22:49.400 --> 22:53.333 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% They have that -- that thing. 22:53.333 --> 22:55.433 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% Max had that, 22:55.433 --> 23:01.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but he was also a more finessed, polished drummer. 23:01.966 --> 23:06.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% To me, his drum style was like heaven. 23:06.133 --> 23:08.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Playing with Max was like heaven. 23:10.200 --> 23:15.633 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% When you play, somebody's got to answer you. 23:15.633 --> 23:18.300 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And when they play, you've got to answer them. 23:18.300 --> 23:19.466 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Bam, you answer me. 23:19.466 --> 23:22.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Oh, right, then I can do something else. 23:22.166 --> 23:24.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% That's why I say Max is heavenly, 23:24.766 --> 23:28.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% because he's feeding me. 23:28.400 --> 23:31.166 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% He's making me think of something to play. 23:31.166 --> 23:35.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% He's playing something that makes me want to play. 23:35.266 --> 23:37.033 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% You see what I mean? 23:37.033 --> 23:42.266 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 23:42.266 --> 23:47.500 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 23:47.500 --> 23:49.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -Max Roach Clifford Brown Group, 23:49.233 --> 23:51.366 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% recording-wise and performance-wise, 23:51.366 --> 23:54.033 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% they were all over the country. 23:54.033 --> 23:55.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% -And we were off. That was it. 23:55.500 --> 23:58.733 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We worked like -- we could work 52 weeks a year. 23:58.733 --> 24:00.200 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% It was amazing. 24:00.200 --> 24:02.333 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% Just a moment that presented itself. 24:02.333 --> 24:04.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We stayed eight weeks in St. Louis, 24:04.533 --> 24:07.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% eight weeks in Chicago, come out to the West Coast 24:07.300 --> 24:10.066 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and open a club for four weeks. 24:10.066 --> 24:12.333 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% We were doing very, very well 24:12.333 --> 24:13.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% traveling up and down this country. 24:13.866 --> 24:16.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And Brownie drove a car, and I drove a car. 24:16.466 --> 24:18.833 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 24:18.833 --> 24:24.100 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% -We had to stay in some funky hotels. 24:24.100 --> 24:27.566 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% And I don't like funky hotels. 24:27.566 --> 24:32.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Broken-down hotels which were in the neighborhood, 24:32.966 --> 24:36.100 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Black neighborhood. 24:36.100 --> 24:39.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -When African-Americans came back from the Second World War, 24:39.366 --> 24:44.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a lot of us expected a change in how African people were treated. 24:44.333 --> 24:47.466 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% But in the '50s, nothing had changed. 24:47.466 --> 24:50.833 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Jim Crow, racism -- it was all there. 24:50.833 --> 24:54.300 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% -Restaurants -- you could go in restaurants 24:54.300 --> 24:55.900 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% and you couldn't sit down and eat. 24:55.900 --> 24:59.466 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% You know, you could take some out, take it out. 24:59.466 --> 25:02.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% They'd stand there and take the food and go out 25:02.100 --> 25:04.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and take it in your car or in the bus 25:04.300 --> 25:07.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% or whatever we had to travel in. 25:07.800 --> 25:10.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I went through that era. 25:10.500 --> 25:12.300 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% And that's -- You know, it's horrible, man. 25:12.300 --> 25:15.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% You know, you can't sit down in a restaurant? 25:15.466 --> 25:18.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Come on. What am I gonna do? 25:18.800 --> 25:20.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -So it was tough being a Black musician back then? 25:20.933 --> 25:22.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% -Oh, definitely. 25:22.800 --> 25:27.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% -He did tell me once that he was stopped by the police 25:27.666 --> 25:29.766 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% in New Jersey, and the police said, 25:29.766 --> 25:32.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% "If you're a musician, play something for us." 25:32.266 --> 25:33.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% [ Chuckles ] And my father threw his drumsticks 25:33.933 --> 25:37.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% at the police officer, and said, "Mother[bleep] you play." 25:37.333 --> 25:41.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, and that didn't turn out well. 25:41.266 --> 25:44.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% But he said something which moved me so much 25:44.800 --> 25:47.300 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% about that period. 25:47.300 --> 25:50.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% He said that if he didn't have the drums, 25:50.533 --> 25:52.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% he would have picked up guns. 25:52.733 --> 25:59.766 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 25:59.766 --> 26:06.900 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 26:06.900 --> 26:10.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -We were playing in front of people that, 26:10.333 --> 26:14.700 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% whatever else they had to go through in life, 26:14.700 --> 26:16.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% they needed their music, 26:16.566 --> 26:20.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and they needed the guys that gave it to them, 26:20.200 --> 26:22.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and we were those people. 26:22.833 --> 26:26.866 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% It was great. It was like an honor. 26:26.866 --> 26:28.966 align:left position:42.5% line:83% size:47.5% -Yeah. -You know? 26:31.833 --> 26:34.100 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% -Now it's our pleasure to present Clifford Brown, 26:34.100 --> 26:36.433 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% playing for you "Tenderly." 26:36.433 --> 26:39.533 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% [ Down-tempo tune plays ] 26:39.533 --> 26:49.433 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 26:49.433 --> 26:59.300 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 26:59.300 --> 27:09.266 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 27:09.266 --> 27:19.166 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 27:19.166 --> 27:23.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -The Max Roach Clifford Brown Group was performing 27:23.400 --> 27:27.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% at the Showboat in Philadelphia. 27:27.133 --> 27:29.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% That night they were gonna get in the car 27:29.000 --> 27:31.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and go to Pittsburgh, I think it was. 27:31.400 --> 27:33.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Max didn't go that night. 27:33.133 --> 27:34.966 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% He was gonna go the next night 27:34.966 --> 27:37.066 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and meet them there or something. 27:39.200 --> 27:42.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But Clifford and Richard Powell, the piano player, 27:42.700 --> 27:44.233 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Nancy -- I didn't know her last name, 27:44.233 --> 27:47.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% but she and Richard had just gotten married -- 27:47.433 --> 27:49.500 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% they got in the car together, 27:49.500 --> 27:52.300 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% those three got on the turnpike, 27:52.300 --> 27:53.633 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and that's when they had the accident 27:53.633 --> 27:55.666 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, 27:55.666 --> 27:57.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% and all of them died. 27:57.633 --> 28:03.333 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 28:03.333 --> 28:04.900 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% -I was at a session. 28:04.900 --> 28:09.900 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% We got a call that Clifford was in a car 28:09.900 --> 28:12.533 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% with Bud Powell's brother and his girlfriend, 28:12.533 --> 28:15.233 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% and it was raining. 28:15.233 --> 28:19.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Clifford was laying down in the back seat, 28:19.200 --> 28:25.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and the truck hit them, cut his body in half at 25. 28:25.000 --> 28:27.433 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% Got killed. 28:27.433 --> 28:30.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Imagine what would happen if he'd lived to 50. 28:30.633 --> 28:32.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Boy, he was something else. 28:32.766 --> 28:37.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -Gee, this is -- this is hard for me to try to recount, man, 28:37.233 --> 28:43.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% because it was such a... 28:43.000 --> 28:45.166 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% a bad day. 28:45.166 --> 28:47.133 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% It's just a lesson in life. 28:47.133 --> 28:50.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% You learn a little bit about life, 28:50.466 --> 28:55.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% because Brownie was like a -- was like a little angel. 28:55.666 --> 28:57.433 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% You know, that was like an angel. 28:57.433 --> 29:01.200 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% How could something happen to Brownie? 29:01.200 --> 29:06.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And when that happened, of course, everybody was... 29:06.200 --> 29:09.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% You know, we was crying like babies, all of us. 29:09.966 --> 29:18.533 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 29:18.533 --> 29:27.066 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 29:27.066 --> 29:35.633 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 29:35.633 --> 29:38.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -Clifford -- he was a joy to work with. 29:38.833 --> 29:43.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% That particular ingredient that we find in people 29:43.533 --> 29:46.166 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that we all say, "Well, he's a genius," 29:46.166 --> 29:50.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and at such a young age to have done so much musically 29:50.766 --> 29:53.433 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% and to have contributed so much, 29:53.433 --> 29:55.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% it was one of the high points of my life. 29:55.900 --> 30:04.133 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 30:04.133 --> 30:06.933 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Applause ] 30:09.100 --> 30:10.700 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% -Max suffered. 30:10.700 --> 30:13.533 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Max suffered, man. 30:13.533 --> 30:14.866 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Max really suffered. 30:14.866 --> 30:19.266 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Max was getting -- Max had gotten to the point -- 30:19.266 --> 30:21.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and I don't know if this has even 30:21.766 --> 30:24.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% ever been spoken about, but... 30:26.533 --> 30:29.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I wonder, should I speak about it now, 30:29.033 --> 30:33.000 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% as a matter of fact, because it's so personal. 30:33.000 --> 30:35.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% But Max suffered. I can say that. 30:35.433 --> 30:38.200 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% He really took it hard, man. 30:39.766 --> 30:45.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It really took Max a while to... 30:45.466 --> 30:47.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to bounce back from that. 30:47.333 --> 30:49.700 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% You know, it was rough. 30:53.833 --> 30:56.566 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% [ Down-tempo piano tune plays ] 30:56.566 --> 31:01.733 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 31:01.733 --> 31:06.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -♪ When that ship began to sail ♪ 31:10.266 --> 31:14.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% ♪ It was like a bird without a tail ♪ 31:18.466 --> 31:23.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% ♪ And when that bird began to fly ♪ 31:27.000 --> 31:31.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% ♪ It was like an eagle in the sky ♪ 31:35.366 --> 31:39.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% ♪ And when the sky began to roar ♪ 31:43.833 --> 31:47.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% ♪ It was like a lion at the door ♪ 31:51.966 --> 31:56.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% ♪ And when the door began to crack ♪ 31:59.666 --> 32:04.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% ♪ 'Twas like a stick across my back ♪ 32:08.500 --> 32:13.066 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% ♪ And when my back began to smart ♪ 32:17.200 --> 32:21.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ♪ It was like a penknife in my heart ♪ 32:23.766 --> 32:27.933 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% ♪ And when my heart ♪ 32:27.933 --> 32:31.866 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% ♪ Began to bleed ♪ 32:35.633 --> 32:38.400 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% ♪ 'Twas death ♪ 32:38.400 --> 32:44.500 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% ♪ And death indeed ♪ 32:44.500 --> 32:52.233 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 32:52.233 --> 32:56.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -When Clifford Brown died, everything altered. 32:56.233 --> 33:00.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And my mother said that after the accident, 33:00.100 --> 33:06.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% my father was just screaming against God. 33:06.666 --> 33:10.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It was a pivotal breakdown, you know, 33:10.400 --> 33:14.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% of all the dreams and hopes for himself and his family. 33:14.233 --> 33:17.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then soon after that, they were divorced. 33:17.233 --> 33:19.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% You know, there were five years after that 33:19.533 --> 33:23.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that we saw our father not often. 33:25.000 --> 33:28.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -After Clifford died, that shattered him. 33:28.266 --> 33:33.833 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% He would talk about how he went into an alcohol binge, 33:33.833 --> 33:36.866 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% and that life was hard. 33:36.866 --> 33:41.533 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But that anger he felt from his head to his toes, 33:41.533 --> 33:43.300 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% when it came out. 33:43.300 --> 33:46.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% -He had a temper. 33:46.166 --> 33:51.300 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% And he was able to... 33:51.300 --> 33:54.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% funnel that temper into his music, ultimately. 33:54.366 --> 33:58.033 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% But if he wasn't doing that, you could be -- it could be -- 33:58.033 --> 34:02.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% When you're downwind of it, it can be devastating. 34:02.133 --> 34:05.733 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% -We were scheduled to perform 34:05.733 --> 34:08.666 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% at the Pep's Showbar in Philadelphia. 34:08.666 --> 34:11.766 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Up-tempo tune plays ] 34:11.766 --> 34:14.900 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Max's drums were behind me, 34:14.900 --> 34:19.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and in the middle of my solo, the drums stop. 34:19.366 --> 34:21.266 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% So I kind of look behind me, 34:21.266 --> 34:25.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and Max was climbing over the drums, 34:25.566 --> 34:29.300 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% coming toward me with a look on his face 34:29.300 --> 34:33.600 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% that made me put my trombone down 34:33.600 --> 34:37.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and get ready for this onslaught that was on its way. 34:37.966 --> 34:40.733 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% And then we wrestle. 34:40.733 --> 34:44.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And Max has been in this psychological turmoil 34:44.300 --> 34:45.700 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% that he was in. 34:45.700 --> 34:48.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It was something that I couldn't fault him. 34:48.433 --> 34:51.133 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% -He made missteps. 34:51.133 --> 34:54.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% With his family, he made missteps. 34:54.066 --> 34:56.433 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% With his music, he made missteps. 34:56.433 --> 35:01.600 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% But when I look at my father's life, 35:01.600 --> 35:08.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there were pivotal people who he allowed in 35:08.433 --> 35:11.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to rescue him, in a way. 35:11.566 --> 35:13.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Mid-tempo tune plays ] 35:13.966 --> 35:19.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% -♪ There's a land of milk and honey ♪ 35:19.900 --> 35:23.466 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -This beautiful young lady is very special to me -- 35:23.466 --> 35:26.300 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% Abbey Lincoln, the voice of our group. 35:26.300 --> 35:30.066 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% -♪ Every day ♪ 35:30.066 --> 35:33.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% ♪ It's bright and sunny ♪ 35:33.666 --> 35:36.033 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% -She was a star when I met her. 35:36.033 --> 35:37.900 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% She was very young. 35:37.900 --> 35:40.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Everything seemed to come natural for Abbey. 35:40.333 --> 35:43.766 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% She was always herself. 35:43.766 --> 35:45.066 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% -I didn't know who he was. 35:45.066 --> 35:47.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I didn't know anything about bebop. 35:47.833 --> 35:49.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% But, anyway, they told him that he should come and see me, 35:49.766 --> 35:51.666 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% and he did. 35:51.666 --> 35:55.766 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% And he was very attentive and wonderful. 35:55.766 --> 35:58.633 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% We had a lot of fun. 35:58.633 --> 36:02.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And then when it came time for him to sign the check, 36:02.966 --> 36:06.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I was impressed because his concentration was something 36:06.900 --> 36:08.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I had never really witnessed before. 36:08.366 --> 36:11.366 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% He was suddenly gone from where we were, 36:11.366 --> 36:13.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he was concentrating on the check. 36:13.700 --> 36:16.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And I noticed his hands, 36:16.700 --> 36:18.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and I thought, "What a beautiful man." 36:18.566 --> 36:21.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% ♪ Spread the word, spread the gospel ♪ 36:21.100 --> 36:24.966 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% ♪ Let the congregation know that a cornet ♪ 36:24.966 --> 36:28.400 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% ♪ Was the downfall of the walls of Jericho ♪ 36:28.400 --> 36:30.833 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% I was working supper clubs 36:30.833 --> 36:34.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and wearing this dress [chuckles] 36:34.300 --> 36:35.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and bouncing on the stage 36:35.733 --> 36:39.233 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% so my breasts would jiggle a little. 36:39.233 --> 36:41.766 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% It wasn't funny to me, though. 36:41.766 --> 36:43.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I've always taken myself seriously, 36:43.800 --> 36:48.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% so it wasn't easy to make light of my life like that. 36:48.700 --> 36:51.833 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And I saw Max Roach again, and he said to me, 36:51.833 --> 36:54.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% "You don't have to do that. 36:54.666 --> 36:58.900 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% Come here. You don't have to do that." 36:58.900 --> 37:01.466 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% And he started to teach me, 37:01.466 --> 37:03.800 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and he started to take care of me. 37:03.800 --> 37:06.500 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% All I had to do was what he said. 37:06.500 --> 37:10.766 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% [ Laughs ] 37:10.766 --> 37:13.966 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% I was pretty good at that. 37:13.966 --> 37:16.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% After a while, though, my independent spirit 37:16.133 --> 37:18.900 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% wouldn't allow it. 37:18.900 --> 37:20.466 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% But he helped me. 37:20.466 --> 37:22.833 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% He saved my life, 37:22.833 --> 37:24.833 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% because I was lost. 37:24.833 --> 37:26.566 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% I really was. 37:26.566 --> 37:32.633 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 37:32.633 --> 37:36.266 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I brought to the relationship my experiences 37:36.266 --> 37:39.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% as somebody who worked in show business. 37:39.633 --> 37:44.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And he brought to me the approach of the artist. 37:44.866 --> 37:46.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% But the collaboration was wonderful, 37:46.700 --> 37:50.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% because for the first time, it was a Black man and woman. 37:50.333 --> 37:53.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Mid-tempo tune plays ] 37:53.400 --> 37:55.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -Well, Abbey, besides being one of the world's 37:55.300 --> 37:57.000 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% most beautiful women, 37:57.000 --> 38:00.400 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% is an exceptionally talented human being. 38:00.400 --> 38:03.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Of course, she's not only a fine singer, 38:03.700 --> 38:05.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% but she's a poet and a playwright, 38:05.866 --> 38:08.633 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and we all know she's an actress, you see. 38:08.633 --> 38:12.033 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% She has helped me a great deal 38:12.033 --> 38:15.300 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% to -- to write more 38:15.300 --> 38:19.733 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and to engage myself in the theater 38:19.733 --> 38:23.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% on a musical level, you see. 38:23.066 --> 38:27.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -♪ Ain't you got no sweet love in you ♪ 38:27.966 --> 38:31.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% ♪ My, how you carry on ♪ 38:31.500 --> 38:35.400 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% ♪ Ohhhh ♪ 38:35.400 --> 38:40.866 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Strange, but having met Max 38:40.866 --> 38:44.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% seemed to point up things for me. 38:44.966 --> 38:47.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I had a chance to find out what made me tick. 38:47.566 --> 38:50.400 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 38:50.400 --> 38:55.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% ♪ Ain't you got no sweet love in you? ♪ 38:55.233 --> 38:59.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% ♪ My, how you carry on ♪ 38:59.133 --> 39:03.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% ♪ My, how you carry on ♪ 39:03.200 --> 39:08.266 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% ♪ My, how you do ♪ 39:08.266 --> 39:17.166 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% ♪ You do carry on ♪ 39:17.166 --> 39:24.333 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 39:24.333 --> 39:26.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -Ethnically speaking, you know, it was like 39:26.633 --> 39:31.233 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% we looked up to them as the shining example, you know? 39:31.233 --> 39:34.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% -They both were so talented, 39:34.466 --> 39:41.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% so aware of who they were, where they were, 39:41.166 --> 39:45.666 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% the conditions that were impacting their goals. 39:45.666 --> 39:50.200 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -Max and Abbey had a chance to make their statement, 39:50.200 --> 39:52.533 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% and it was needed. 39:52.533 --> 39:53.933 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% It was needed. 39:53.933 --> 39:55.266 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% I'm glad it turned out 39:55.266 --> 39:59.466 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% pretty successful as a record, you know? 39:59.466 --> 40:02.633 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Tambourine rattling ] 40:02.633 --> 40:07.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -♪ Ain't but two things on my mind ♪ 40:07.433 --> 40:12.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ♪ Driva' man and quittin' time ♪ 40:12.100 --> 40:15.966 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% ♪ Driva' man the kind of boss ♪ 40:15.966 --> 40:19.866 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% ♪ Ride a man and lead a horse ♪ 40:19.866 --> 40:23.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% ♪ When his cat o' nine tail fly ♪ 40:23.966 --> 40:27.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% ♪ You be happy just to die ♪ 40:27.800 --> 40:31.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ♪ Run away and you'll be found ♪ 40:31.666 --> 40:35.566 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% ♪ By his big old red bone hound ♪ 40:35.566 --> 40:39.333 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% ♪ Pateroller bring you back ♪ 40:39.333 --> 40:43.233 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% ♪ Make you sorry you is Black ♪ 40:43.233 --> 40:47.300 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% ♪ Driva' man, he made a life ♪ 40:47.300 --> 40:51.200 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% ♪ But a Mamie ain't his wife ♪ 40:51.200 --> 40:55.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% ♪ Ain't but two things on my mind ♪ 40:55.066 --> 40:59.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ♪ Driva' man and quittin' time ♪ 40:59.100 --> 41:02.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -I became an advocate, I guess, politically speaking. 41:02.666 --> 41:04.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We thought the country was gonna change 41:04.800 --> 41:07.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and things were gonna be better in education 41:07.966 --> 41:11.000 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% and labor and equality and all this. 41:11.000 --> 41:12.533 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% It was like that dream 41:12.533 --> 41:15.433 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% that everybody was hoping would happen. 41:17.566 --> 41:21.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I got caught up in it intellectually, emotionally, 41:21.400 --> 41:24.700 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% and musically. 41:24.700 --> 41:28.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Since I had the stage and I was recording, 41:28.900 --> 41:31.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if I could say something, I said it, 41:31.133 --> 41:34.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% whether it was through my music or whatever, 41:34.400 --> 41:38.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% because I have a stake in this country as well as anybody else. 41:43.166 --> 41:48.066 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% -As a young kid, I would play with my parents' records. 41:48.066 --> 41:50.333 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% I would just pull the records out 41:50.333 --> 41:51.933 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% and look at all the amazing images, 41:51.933 --> 41:53.333 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% black-and-white images 41:53.333 --> 41:55.733 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% in particular, and also sometimes abstract art, 41:55.733 --> 41:57.933 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% 'cause in certain record stores 41:57.933 --> 41:59.666 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% where people might have been racist, 41:59.666 --> 42:03.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% it'd be better to put just a piece of art on the cover 42:03.533 --> 42:07.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% as opposed to these Black men that are just making music. 42:07.166 --> 42:09.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And there was one record in particular 42:09.433 --> 42:13.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that really fascinated me 42:13.333 --> 42:15.900 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and kind of disturbed me, 42:15.900 --> 42:18.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and this record was "We Insist!" 42:18.566 --> 42:21.300 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% the Max Roach "Freedom Now Suite." 42:21.300 --> 42:24.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% You see these brothers looking serious, turned, 42:24.200 --> 42:26.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% looking at the camera, at the viewer, 42:26.433 --> 42:28.333 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% and behind them is a white guy. 42:28.333 --> 42:31.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Clearly, he wasn't trying to serve them. 42:31.100 --> 42:33.466 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And what my parents would explain to me 42:33.466 --> 42:37.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% was that's a protest going on at a lunch counter. 42:37.166 --> 42:39.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Like, we are demanding the right 42:39.133 --> 42:41.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% to be able to come into this establishment. 42:41.433 --> 42:44.033 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% We insist on these rights. 42:44.033 --> 42:45.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% And later when I would grow up, 42:45.400 --> 42:47.866 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I would learn that this was what many people consider 42:47.866 --> 42:52.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% one of America's first official protest records. 42:52.000 --> 42:56.533 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% -Idea of the whole piece was to trace from Africa, 42:56.533 --> 43:00.700 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% across the Atlantic, in chains to the plantations, 43:00.700 --> 43:04.566 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% and then the fight for freedom. 43:04.566 --> 43:07.066 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% -Even today, a lot of people, even African-Americans, 43:07.066 --> 43:09.800 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% they don't want to hear about slavery or whatever. 43:09.800 --> 43:11.366 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% It's like, that's a long time ago. 43:11.366 --> 43:13.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Let's just be cool and whatever. 43:13.133 --> 43:18.033 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% But to celebrate our people having gone through that 43:18.033 --> 43:21.033 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% and surviving that and still having a lot of spirit, 43:21.033 --> 43:24.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to create, like, a whole musical theme and statement about that 43:24.833 --> 43:27.400 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% is just brave, I think. 43:27.400 --> 43:31.966 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -I was very proud to have been a part of that. 43:31.966 --> 43:35.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% It was a learning experience for me, 43:35.133 --> 43:37.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% because up to that point, 43:37.066 --> 43:38.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I was more interested in performing. 43:38.566 --> 43:41.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I was interested in playing some bebop. 43:41.166 --> 43:45.566 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% [ Laughs ] And it was wonderful, you know. 43:45.566 --> 43:48.433 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% It gave me purpose. 43:48.433 --> 43:51.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -Max was very conscious about his Blackness 43:51.566 --> 43:56.200 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% and was very much into uniting Black Americans 43:56.200 --> 43:58.200 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% with the African nation. 43:58.200 --> 44:02.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% He felt socially responsible to educate people 44:02.766 --> 44:04.700 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% about the things that he knew. 44:04.700 --> 44:09.500 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% And that's the Max that I knew. 44:09.500 --> 44:11.533 align:left position:42.5% line:83% size:47.5% -Yeah, the "Freedom Now Suite"... 44:13.700 --> 44:15.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Yeah. I don't think -- 44:15.666 --> 44:19.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Has anything been done like that since? 44:19.366 --> 44:22.666 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% [ Mid-tempo tune plays ] 44:22.666 --> 44:26.733 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% -♪ Eeeee ♪ 44:26.733 --> 44:32.233 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% ♪ Oooooooh ♪ 44:34.266 --> 44:41.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% ♪ I-eeeeeeeeee ♪ 44:41.966 --> 44:44.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -This particular piece, "Tears for Johannesburg," 44:44.800 --> 44:48.033 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% was to commemorate the memory 44:48.033 --> 44:51.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% of all those young people who were killed in Johannesburg 44:51.933 --> 44:56.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% during the military insurrection on the students. 44:56.933 --> 44:59.266 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -♪ I-eeeee ♪ 44:59.266 --> 45:03.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -And so that piece was dedicated to them. 45:03.766 --> 45:08.700 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% -Even before the Civil Rights and Black Power movements 45:08.700 --> 45:11.366 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and Panthers and all those folks made this connection 45:11.366 --> 45:13.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% between movement for justice here, 45:13.766 --> 45:16.633 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% movement for justice in Africa, 45:16.633 --> 45:18.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% you know, he just kind of made a line in the sand, 45:18.600 --> 45:22.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% said, "This is how my music is gonna address 45:22.233 --> 45:27.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% this worldwide movement for justice." 45:27.266 --> 45:29.900 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% -It resonated with us. 45:29.900 --> 45:33.300 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% "Freedom Now Suite" was our quest 45:33.300 --> 45:36.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% for liberation in South Africa and in Africa... 45:36.533 --> 45:39.366 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 45:39.366 --> 45:43.933 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% ...because there was somebody, you know, 45:43.933 --> 45:45.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% who really cared. 45:45.500 --> 45:51.300 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 45:51.300 --> 45:55.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He made us all understand that there are no boundaries. 45:55.366 --> 45:57.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% There are no boundaries in the human experience 45:57.600 --> 46:02.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and no boundaries in music, because Max's work is really 46:02.366 --> 46:07.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% about how you relate to another human being. 46:07.633 --> 46:14.133 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 46:14.133 --> 46:17.633 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% So there was this interlinking interconnection 46:17.633 --> 46:21.833 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% with experience and quests. 46:21.833 --> 46:23.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% It was our story. 46:23.600 --> 46:26.700 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 46:26.700 --> 46:30.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% The regime saw it as a threat. 46:30.066 --> 46:32.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% The music was subversive, 46:32.400 --> 46:35.800 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% and that's why they banned it. 46:35.800 --> 46:37.066 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% -The album was barred 46:37.066 --> 46:40.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% from being further imported into South Africa, 46:40.533 --> 46:44.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and it reached the national press and became a light hit. 46:44.966 --> 46:47.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It almost reached the kind of popularity 46:47.100 --> 46:52.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that went into pop records, because the times warranted it. 46:52.066 --> 46:54.966 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -The apartheid government said in the future they were gonna 46:54.966 --> 46:59.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% keep an eye out for work by Negro artists from America 46:59.166 --> 47:01.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that had the word "freedom" in the title. 47:01.600 --> 47:05.133 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 47:05.133 --> 47:07.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -I just looked at a picture the other day of the premiere 47:07.433 --> 47:11.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% of "For Love of Ivy," and they're wearing dashikis. 47:11.833 --> 47:13.766 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% [ Laughs ] You know? And I was just -- 47:13.766 --> 47:15.166 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% Nobody was doing that. 47:15.166 --> 47:16.766 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Everybody was wearing sharkskin suits 47:16.766 --> 47:19.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and, you know, slicked-back hair. 47:19.566 --> 47:23.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And it was really like, "We're Black, 47:23.400 --> 47:25.366 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% we're claiming the pride of being 47:25.366 --> 47:27.433 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% who we are as natural people, 47:27.433 --> 47:30.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and we don't have to be anybody else but ourselves." 47:30.966 --> 47:33.000 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -I remember one day they came to the house, 47:33.000 --> 47:34.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and I was a little boy, and I was like, 47:34.800 --> 47:36.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% "Why does her hair look like that?" 47:36.700 --> 47:39.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% 'Cause then all Black women were ironing and pressing 47:39.733 --> 47:42.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and straightening and perming their hair. 47:42.500 --> 47:45.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And later I realized that Abbey Lincoln 47:45.233 --> 47:47.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% had one of the first natural hairdos, 47:47.266 --> 47:50.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% one of the first Afros, which would become ubiquitous. 47:50.766 --> 47:52.033 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% So I always remembered, like, 47:52.033 --> 47:54.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% man, I saw that before the world saw that. 47:54.800 --> 47:56.866 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And then as I would grow older and understand more, 47:56.866 --> 48:01.000 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I just realized how courageous they were to do those things. 48:01.000 --> 48:03.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -I didn't see myself as an imitation of anybody, 48:03.900 --> 48:05.866 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% but an original. 48:05.866 --> 48:07.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And that spooked a lot of people. 48:07.366 --> 48:10.000 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% It's amazing what'll spook people. 48:10.000 --> 48:13.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They said I was a rebel, but I felt beautiful. 48:13.466 --> 48:16.533 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% I felt beautiful and whole. 48:16.533 --> 48:19.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% -When I first saw Abbey Lincoln, 48:19.466 --> 48:21.966 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% Abbey came there one Sunday afternoon. 48:21.966 --> 48:23.400 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Never forget that. 48:23.400 --> 48:25.766 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% We were in this, like, room 48:25.766 --> 48:29.900 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% that was like a smallish auditorium, right, 48:29.900 --> 48:34.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and light was coming in that Sunday afternoon, 48:34.133 --> 48:36.633 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and Abbey came with that amazing natural 48:36.633 --> 48:38.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that she had on her head, 48:38.133 --> 48:42.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and she did a lecture on who will revere the Black woman. 48:42.700 --> 48:46.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -I believe that the role of the Black woman 48:46.233 --> 48:49.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% is the same role she's always played, 48:49.066 --> 48:51.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that you can only play if you're a woman, 48:51.766 --> 48:54.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% and that is this. 48:54.033 --> 48:57.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% You do whatever is necessary, you know? 48:57.966 --> 49:02.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That's what we've always done -- whatever came naturally. 49:02.866 --> 49:06.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% If the situation calls for this, you do this. 49:06.633 --> 49:09.766 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% If it calls for that, you do that. 49:09.766 --> 49:12.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% We all know what we're doing. 49:12.633 --> 49:15.500 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Laughter ] 49:19.066 --> 49:22.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% -Very well put. [ Laughter ] 49:22.566 --> 49:24.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I've heard people say we're not together. 49:24.666 --> 49:26.833 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% That's a state of mind. 49:26.833 --> 49:28.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% All I have to do is say we're together, 49:28.933 --> 49:30.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he says we were together, he says we were together, 49:30.700 --> 49:33.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% you say when we're together, any time, 49:33.366 --> 49:34.766 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% when people say you're not together, 49:34.766 --> 49:36.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% it's another one of those little phrases 49:36.700 --> 49:39.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that if you grasp at it, you're going to be hung with it. 49:39.633 --> 49:41.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% A lot of this stuff here we're gonna have to start 49:41.466 --> 49:45.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% weeding out, like little phrases that tend to make us look down 49:45.833 --> 49:49.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% on ourselves at any point, in any way possible. 49:49.666 --> 49:51.233 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% -They were originators, 49:51.233 --> 49:55.100 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and it made us originate also, to be originators. 49:55.100 --> 49:57.066 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% And you could not go back. 49:57.066 --> 49:58.600 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% You could not turn around. 49:58.600 --> 50:00.000 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% You had to go forward. 50:00.000 --> 50:03.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And you went forward with a fast tongue, right, you know, 50:03.066 --> 50:05.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and the music on that tongue, you know, 50:05.200 --> 50:07.066 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and the curses on that tongue, you know, 50:07.066 --> 50:10.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and the defiance on that tongue, 50:10.433 --> 50:13.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but also at the same time, the beauty. 50:13.900 --> 50:16.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% -Very few artists were activists at the time, 50:16.400 --> 50:20.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and coming to the table with his prestige, 50:20.066 --> 50:22.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% he brought a lot of juice. 50:22.566 --> 50:25.700 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I think he influenced a lot of other musicians to come in 50:25.700 --> 50:30.466 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and to see how he'd protest through Max's eyes. 50:30.466 --> 50:34.300 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% -I still have a dream. 50:34.300 --> 50:39.100 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. 50:39.100 --> 50:41.766 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% I have a dream 50:41.766 --> 50:47.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that one day this nation will rise up 50:47.933 --> 50:51.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% to live out the true meaning of its creed. 50:51.666 --> 50:55.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We hold these truths to be self-evident 50:55.066 --> 50:57.633 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% that all men are created equal. 50:57.633 --> 51:00.366 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Cheers and applause ] 51:00.366 --> 51:03.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -But he ran up against a fierce enemy. 51:03.766 --> 51:06.000 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% [ Dogs barking, people shouting ] 51:06.000 --> 51:08.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And certainly those of us who spoke out 51:08.400 --> 51:12.200 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% against injustice became the target. 51:14.366 --> 51:15.833 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% [ Woman gasps, men shouting ] 51:15.833 --> 51:17.833 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% [ Siren wailing ] 51:17.833 --> 51:22.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -Max is really in the forefront of this critique of America. 51:22.400 --> 51:26.000 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% People like Fanon and Richard Wright and Malcolm X 51:26.000 --> 51:29.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and Martin Luther King all paid, you know, a huge price for it. 51:29.666 --> 51:34.333 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% -You know, these men came along at a time 51:34.333 --> 51:38.366 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% when it was real rough, you know, 51:38.366 --> 51:42.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and really rough for the Black man. 51:42.966 --> 51:47.000 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% And, um... 51:47.000 --> 51:48.600 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% they fought. 51:50.166 --> 51:53.333 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% They fought. 51:53.333 --> 51:55.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -I took it to a degree where everything I wrote 51:55.933 --> 51:58.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and recorded had to do with the movement. 51:58.966 --> 52:01.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Mid-tempo tune plays ] 52:01.300 --> 52:07.100 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% -♪ Members, don't get weary ♪ 52:08.533 --> 52:14.100 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% ♪ Members, don't get weary ♪ 52:15.466 --> 52:19.666 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% ♪ Members, don't get weary ♪ 52:19.666 --> 52:21.166 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Even in my public performances, 52:21.166 --> 52:23.166 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% I chose to deal with that kind of music 52:23.166 --> 52:25.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and that kind of attitude, and whenever I did an interview, 52:25.700 --> 52:27.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% the same thing prevailed. 52:27.733 --> 52:30.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% My public performances were curtailed because people said, 52:30.700 --> 52:33.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% "Well, if you hire Max Roach, he's gonna make a speech." 52:33.400 --> 52:36.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% This wasn't entirely true, but I would announce 52:36.400 --> 52:38.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that this piece is dedicated to Marcus Garvey, 52:38.933 --> 52:40.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and if you didn't know who Marcus Garvey was, 52:40.700 --> 52:43.000 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% since we were working downtown, 52:43.000 --> 52:44.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I would give a short history of Garvey. 52:44.700 --> 52:46.166 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Well, that's too much. 52:46.166 --> 52:48.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So they'd say, "Well, Max, just come in and play music. 52:48.433 --> 52:50.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% You don't have to talk." 52:50.600 --> 52:56.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% -♪ There's a land of milk and honey ♪ 52:56.366 --> 53:00.666 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% ♪ Up the river they call the Nile ♪ 53:00.666 --> 53:05.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -So how I really did subsist was to work with the groups 53:05.700 --> 53:08.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that were doing things like that, like the NAACP. 53:08.766 --> 53:11.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% They premiered the "Freedom Now Suite." 53:11.566 --> 53:14.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I would perform at rallies from town hall 53:14.066 --> 53:16.766 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% all the way up to the armory uptown. 53:16.766 --> 53:19.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Malcolm X, the Muslims would use the entertainment 53:19.866 --> 53:22.466 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% to bring people in so that they could talk 53:22.466 --> 53:24.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% about the sociopolitical situation 53:24.900 --> 53:28.066 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% that existed in the United States of America. 53:28.066 --> 53:31.400 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% -Making political statements in jazz music 53:31.400 --> 53:36.033 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% was definitely on the radar of the government. 53:36.033 --> 53:40.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% The FBI was banning, blackballing. 53:40.300 --> 53:43.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% J. Edgar Hoover was known to send the feds 53:43.633 --> 53:46.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to gigs to revoke your musician's license away 53:46.466 --> 53:48.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% so that you couldn't make a living. 53:48.300 --> 53:49.766 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% -One time I went to meet him, 53:49.766 --> 53:51.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I was looking for him and looking for him, 53:51.100 --> 53:52.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and I couldn't find him. 53:52.466 --> 53:54.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And I saw a man, and he had a newspaper up, 53:54.500 --> 53:55.833 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but it was, like, covered, you know, 53:55.833 --> 53:57.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% like you see in the movies, and I said, 53:57.300 --> 53:59.266 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% "Well, that's the only person I haven't looked at." 53:59.266 --> 54:02.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I saw the hands were brown, so I go around, 54:02.566 --> 54:04.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he's down like this, and I said, "Max." 54:04.933 --> 54:08.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% He said, "Sit down! Sit down. Sit down. 54:08.233 --> 54:09.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% They're watching me. They're watching me. 54:09.400 --> 54:12.166 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% Just sit. Sit. I just wanted to see you. 54:12.166 --> 54:13.366 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% I wanted to see how you're doing." 54:13.366 --> 54:14.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And I was like, "I'm okay," but you know -- 54:14.633 --> 54:17.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he kept the paper up, and so finally I was like, 54:17.033 --> 54:19.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% "Max, you got to put the paper down." 54:19.033 --> 54:22.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I said, "I don't think anybody's here," you know. 54:22.133 --> 54:27.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -It was painful, frightening, threatening. 54:27.100 --> 54:30.700 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% It was taxing on him... 54:30.700 --> 54:33.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% economically, certainly, 54:33.700 --> 54:35.500 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% emotionally. 54:38.400 --> 54:44.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I remember one time Abbey saying to me, quietly, 54:44.166 --> 54:47.400 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% "I don't want to scream anymore." 54:47.400 --> 54:48.733 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% You know? 54:51.466 --> 54:55.066 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 54:55.066 --> 55:00.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -♪ Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah, ahhhhhhh! ♪ 55:03.066 --> 55:06.200 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% ♪ Ahhhh ♪ 55:06.200 --> 55:09.433 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% ♪ Ahhhhhhh ♪ 55:09.433 --> 55:12.133 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% -I don't know the true dynamics 55:12.133 --> 55:14.166 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% of the end of Abbey and Dad's relationship, 55:14.166 --> 55:16.566 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and he would never talk about it. 55:16.566 --> 55:20.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% But from hindsight, I see that 55:20.533 --> 55:26.733 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% his sometimes rages wore her down. 55:26.733 --> 55:32.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, and in terms of the rage coming out of him, 55:32.866 --> 55:36.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% I don't see how he could have 55:36.633 --> 55:40.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% navigated through his life without it 55:40.133 --> 55:42.333 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% in a society that was against you 55:42.333 --> 55:47.333 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% politically, economically, and socially. 55:47.333 --> 55:51.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And his expression of it being hard out there -- 55:51.300 --> 55:53.733 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% it's hard out there -- 55:53.733 --> 55:57.100 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% it was something that drove him 55:57.100 --> 56:00.333 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% to the end of his life. 56:00.333 --> 56:02.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -The record companies and the industry in general 56:02.900 --> 56:04.733 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% were putting a lot of pressure on him 56:04.733 --> 56:08.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% to do what Miles did with "Bitches Brew," 56:08.533 --> 56:11.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to go electronic, and he refused. 56:11.866 --> 56:13.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -There were some musicians at that time 56:13.700 --> 56:16.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% who would say to me, "Forget about all of that." 56:16.966 --> 56:18.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Why not just opt for making a lot of money 56:18.933 --> 56:20.266 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and I could buy my freedom? 56:20.266 --> 56:22.500 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% Of course, I didn't believe that. 56:22.500 --> 56:27.266 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% But I remember, when I did my last album for Atlantic Records, 56:27.266 --> 56:28.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I was approached by the brass there, 56:28.900 --> 56:31.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and they said, "You know, Max, you know, 56:31.600 --> 56:35.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% you're the number-one this and you're number-one that. 56:35.633 --> 56:37.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% You know, you should be rich." 56:37.400 --> 56:40.766 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% And I said, "Yeah," you know. 56:40.766 --> 56:43.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% "Why not, you know? I could go for that." 56:43.433 --> 56:46.833 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And they said, "Well, all you have to do is do material 56:46.833 --> 56:50.333 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% that's familiar or coattail on hit tunes." 56:50.333 --> 56:52.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% They said, you know, "When people are familiar with things, 56:52.533 --> 56:56.100 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% they accept them much more readily 56:56.100 --> 56:59.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% than they would with a lot of original material. 56:59.066 --> 57:00.766 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% New material, that is." 57:00.766 --> 57:02.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% So I thought about it, and I said, 57:02.133 --> 57:04.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% "Ah, the Negro spiritual." 57:04.766 --> 57:06.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% -He says, "Okay, I'll do something popular. 57:06.733 --> 57:09.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'll do a gospel album." [ Laughs ] 57:09.666 --> 57:12.900 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% So he did "Lift Every Voice and Sing." 57:12.900 --> 57:15.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Mid-tempo tune plays ] 57:15.000 --> 57:17.700 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% [ Choir vocalizing ] 57:17.700 --> 57:20.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It was a unique combination of jazz quartet 57:20.666 --> 57:22.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% and gospel choir. 57:22.533 --> 57:26.033 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% [ Choir vocalizing ] 57:26.033 --> 57:28.600 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 57:28.600 --> 57:31.400 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% I love that album. 57:31.400 --> 57:34.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -You know, with the church, jazz was forbidden. 57:34.933 --> 57:38.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It was my desire to bring these two forces together. 57:38.833 --> 57:41.033 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% It's the kind of material I use with something 57:41.033 --> 57:44.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% like "Singing with a Sword in my Hand," 57:44.266 --> 57:46.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% "Were You There When They Crucified My Lord," 57:46.966 --> 57:48.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% which, to me, was a spiritual 57:48.466 --> 57:51.366 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% that was a testament to a lynching. 57:51.366 --> 57:55.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And we used the gospel choir and jazz musicians 57:55.066 --> 57:57.933 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% who improvised all through the arrangements. 57:57.933 --> 58:01.600 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% -♪ Let the people go ♪ 58:01.600 --> 58:07.166 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% ♪ Let the people go ♪ 58:07.166 --> 58:10.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% -I dedicated each song to people 58:10.166 --> 58:15.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% like Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers. 58:15.633 --> 58:18.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% After the record came out, I called up the brass 58:18.966 --> 58:20.400 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and asked them what they thought of it, 58:20.400 --> 58:23.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and there was a loud silence on the other end of the phone. 58:23.900 --> 58:27.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But that was the last one I recorded 58:27.300 --> 58:30.100 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% for a major label at that time. 58:30.100 --> 58:34.100 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% -Here he was -- he had a new wife, Janus, 58:34.100 --> 58:35.866 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and twin infant daughters, 58:35.866 --> 58:40.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and I think for a while it was hard. 58:40.700 --> 58:44.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He had become depressed, you know, 58:44.033 --> 58:47.666 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% felt like a part of his life had ended. 58:47.666 --> 58:50.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% -He asked me to replace Abbey, 58:50.400 --> 58:53.700 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and we had a show in Detroit. 58:53.700 --> 58:56.566 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% All of a sudden, he started cursing me out 58:56.566 --> 58:59.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% on stage in front of the public, 58:59.066 --> 59:03.266 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% calling me the B-word, and he said, "Get off the stage," 59:03.266 --> 59:05.300 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% you know, "Just get off the stage." 59:05.300 --> 59:07.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% I mean, just, it was crazy. 59:07.666 --> 59:11.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So I went back to the hotel. I was in tears. 59:11.366 --> 59:13.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And he came into the room and he said, "I'm sorry. 59:13.833 --> 59:17.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I thought you were Abbey. You look like Abbey." 59:17.033 --> 59:19.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -I remember one time he went through the house 59:19.900 --> 59:22.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and broke every drumstick in the house, 59:22.000 --> 59:25.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% even on the little doll -- little African statues. 59:25.133 --> 59:29.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% He would pull out the little ivory drumsticks and snap them. 59:29.066 --> 59:31.166 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So when the offer came in for him 59:31.166 --> 59:35.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% to take a professorship up at UMass, he took it. 59:37.666 --> 59:40.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -I went up there because the students demanded it, 59:40.533 --> 59:43.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% during the period when Black students 59:43.400 --> 59:45.500 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% were asking for more faculty 59:45.500 --> 59:48.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and they were seizing the campuses and things like this. 59:48.966 --> 59:51.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It grew out of this whole '60s movement. 59:51.166 --> 59:55.166 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% When the students demanded it, the university reached out. 59:55.166 --> 59:57.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Of all the schools that showed an interest, 59:57.600 --> 01:00:00.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% UMass was the closest to New York City, 01:00:00.033 --> 01:00:03.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and I felt that I could still do the things I wanted to do, 01:00:03.933 --> 01:00:05.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% so I had to move my family there, 01:00:05.433 --> 01:00:07.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that was good for me, I thought. 01:00:09.433 --> 01:00:11.800 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% -Yeah, this is the house in Amherst. 01:00:11.800 --> 01:00:15.266 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Wow. Um... 01:00:15.266 --> 01:00:17.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Wow. Look at us. 01:00:17.500 --> 01:00:19.733 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% I have never seen this. 01:00:19.733 --> 01:00:23.200 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% I have never seen this. 01:00:23.200 --> 01:00:24.500 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% That's me. -That's you? 01:00:24.500 --> 01:00:26.733 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% -I think that's me. 01:00:26.733 --> 01:00:30.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Oh, my goodness. 01:00:30.033 --> 01:00:32.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% -He was a responsible father, 01:00:32.633 --> 01:00:35.366 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% and he understood that he had to provide 01:00:35.366 --> 01:00:37.866 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% for himself and for his family. 01:00:37.866 --> 01:00:40.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And it was a way to also connect with students. 01:00:40.833 --> 01:00:43.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We'd have young, you know, aspiring musicians 01:00:43.733 --> 01:00:45.066 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% come over to the house. 01:00:45.066 --> 01:00:49.066 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% He was always mentoring somebody. 01:00:49.066 --> 01:00:52.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -I began to experiment with the students. 01:00:52.833 --> 01:00:56.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% You had a 60-voice choir. 01:00:56.100 --> 01:00:59.666 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:00:59.666 --> 01:01:01.933 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% You had musicians in the music department, 01:01:01.933 --> 01:01:04.566 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and we would begin to collaborate on doing 01:01:04.566 --> 01:01:09.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% large orchestral works that spotlighted percussion 01:01:09.066 --> 01:01:13.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and improvised instrumentalists, so that was a good period for me 01:01:13.166 --> 01:01:17.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% because it was good for experimenting. 01:01:17.033 --> 01:01:18.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% -I was teaching, 01:01:18.766 --> 01:01:21.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and I got arrested with my students, right? 01:01:21.233 --> 01:01:24.000 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I came to find out that I wasn't being rehired, 01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:25.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% so that's why I went to Amherst. 01:01:25.600 --> 01:01:28.133 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% And we got up to Amherst College. 01:01:28.133 --> 01:01:31.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Man, it is 9:00 a.m. in the morning, 01:01:31.433 --> 01:01:33.033 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and Max looked like he was 01:01:33.033 --> 01:01:35.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% just gotten out of "Gentlemen's Quarterly," right? 01:01:35.600 --> 01:01:38.700 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% He had this hat sitting acey-deucey, 01:01:38.700 --> 01:01:41.700 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% this leather coat -- jacket on, 01:01:41.700 --> 01:01:43.700 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% this turtleneck sweater on. 01:01:43.700 --> 01:01:45.466 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% But Max came over and said, 01:01:45.466 --> 01:01:47.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% "We heard you were coming up here. 01:01:47.166 --> 01:01:49.766 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% Welcome. Now you'll be okay." 01:01:49.766 --> 01:01:54.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -There was a community of Black artists, intellectuals, 01:01:54.633 --> 01:01:59.366 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% scholars that he was very closely connected to. 01:01:59.366 --> 01:02:02.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% But, you know, he was still Max Roach at that time. 01:02:02.933 --> 01:02:07.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% He still wanted to create. He still wanted to perform. 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:08.600 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% That's who he was. 01:02:08.600 --> 01:02:11.366 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Applause ] 01:02:11.366 --> 01:02:13.600 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:02:13.600 --> 01:02:19.066 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:02:19.066 --> 01:02:22.466 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I began to do these drum solos, concerts with drum solos. 01:02:22.466 --> 01:02:24.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You know, the composers and all, they'd say, 01:02:24.066 --> 01:02:27.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Well, you're just doing a solo with drums." 01:02:27.600 --> 01:02:29.633 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% And I'd say, "Yes, that's what it is." 01:02:29.633 --> 01:02:31.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% "You mean to tell me you're gonna play an hour 01:02:31.200 --> 01:02:32.533 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% and a half with drums?" 01:02:32.533 --> 01:02:33.666 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% "Yes." 01:02:33.666 --> 01:02:39.600 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:02:39.600 --> 01:02:45.500 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:02:45.500 --> 01:02:47.466 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% One guy says, "Man, I heard this piece, Max, 01:02:47.466 --> 01:02:49.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% but it didn't sound like music to me." 01:02:49.766 --> 01:02:54.133 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And I say, "Well, in the sense of this area of music, 01:02:54.133 --> 01:02:56.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% when you talk about didn't sound like Charlie Parker 01:02:56.033 --> 01:02:57.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% or Duke Ellington or Mozart or Bach 01:02:57.866 --> 01:03:00.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% or somebody like that, you're right. 01:03:00.433 --> 01:03:04.533 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% But I'm organizing sounds now, 01:03:04.533 --> 01:03:06.533 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and sound is not restricted 01:03:06.533 --> 01:03:10.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% to any particular group of instruments. 01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:13.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% This world of sound is infinite." 01:03:13.266 --> 01:03:22.566 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:03:22.566 --> 01:03:31.866 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:03:31.866 --> 01:03:34.000 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% [ Applause ] 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:37.300 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:03:37.300 --> 01:03:40.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I wanted to put it all together logically 01:03:40.133 --> 01:03:42.666 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% and create a structure 01:03:42.666 --> 01:03:45.833 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% and a piece of sound architecture that makes sense, 01:03:45.833 --> 01:03:47.466 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% and phrases that are rhythmic 01:03:47.466 --> 01:03:51.300 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% and that come out of the drum set itself. 01:03:51.300 --> 01:03:54.366 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% And M'Boom, of course, uses all those properties. 01:03:54.366 --> 01:03:57.066 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% [ Tapping ] 01:03:57.066 --> 01:04:04.366 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:04:04.366 --> 01:04:11.566 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:04:11.566 --> 01:04:14.333 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% [ Cymbals playing ] 01:04:14.333 --> 01:04:17.533 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% -M'Boom came about because I had this group 01:04:17.533 --> 01:04:20.000 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% of percussion instruments in my studio. 01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:23.300 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% So people like Max Roach and Joe Chambers 01:04:23.300 --> 01:04:25.633 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% would come up there to practice. 01:04:25.633 --> 01:04:29.200 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% We were all there, and it was Max's idea. 01:04:29.200 --> 01:04:31.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% After he finished rehearsing, we sat down. 01:04:31.200 --> 01:04:35.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% He said, "I'm thinking about starting a percussion ensemble." 01:04:35.433 --> 01:04:39.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -I wanted to hear and create something different 01:04:39.366 --> 01:04:41.266 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% but would still be in the continuum 01:04:41.266 --> 01:04:44.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% of what Duke Ellington and Charlie Parker 01:04:44.600 --> 01:04:46.733 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and Count Basie visualized, 01:04:46.733 --> 01:04:50.300 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% but only with percussion instruments. 01:04:50.300 --> 01:04:52.833 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% -At that time, percussion ensembles 01:04:52.833 --> 01:04:58.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% were all strictly, like, snare drums and military. 01:04:58.633 --> 01:05:04.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And Max heard something that was more African. 01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:06.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Mid-tempo tune plays ] 01:05:06.200 --> 01:05:11.466 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:05:11.466 --> 01:05:16.733 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:05:16.733 --> 01:05:19.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -The music of Africa is very powerful. 01:05:22.066 --> 01:05:25.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% We were taken away from Mother Africa, 01:05:25.033 --> 01:05:29.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but whether we were taken to Brazil or Cuba or Haiti 01:05:29.533 --> 01:05:31.866 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% or Mississippi or Georgia, 01:05:31.866 --> 01:05:34.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% we approached life with what Duke says, 01:05:34.700 --> 01:05:36.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% "the African pulse," in our music. 01:05:36.866 --> 01:05:46.033 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:05:46.033 --> 01:05:55.166 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:05:55.166 --> 01:06:04.400 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:13.533 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:06:13.533 --> 01:06:22.700 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:06:22.700 --> 01:06:31.833 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:06:31.833 --> 01:06:41.000 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:50.133 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:06:50.133 --> 01:06:52.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -We decided we could just do anything we wanted. 01:06:52.333 --> 01:06:56.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It doesn't sound like the African percussion ensembles. 01:06:56.466 --> 01:06:59.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It doesn't sound like the European percussion ensembles. 01:06:59.166 --> 01:07:00.633 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% It doesn't sound like Kodo, 01:07:00.633 --> 01:07:03.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% the Japanese percussion ensembles. 01:07:03.933 --> 01:07:06.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We could come up with our own musical personality. 01:07:06.466 --> 01:07:15.000 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:23.566 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:07:23.566 --> 01:07:26.500 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Laughter ] 01:07:28.766 --> 01:07:31.366 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% -It's a group made of drummers. 01:07:31.366 --> 01:07:32.933 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% That's my worst nightmare. 01:07:32.933 --> 01:07:36.966 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% [ Laughs ] 01:07:36.966 --> 01:07:38.866 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% You know, it's just weird. 01:07:38.866 --> 01:07:40.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% You know how many drummers call me up 01:07:40.766 --> 01:07:42.500 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% to like, "Yo, man, let's come over, 01:07:42.500 --> 01:07:44.033 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% let's shed together"? 01:07:44.033 --> 01:07:47.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And I was like, "Ugh. This is soup for one. No." 01:07:47.200 --> 01:07:49.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Like, for guitarists to play together, 01:07:49.333 --> 01:07:52.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for horn sections to play together, for pianists, 01:07:52.033 --> 01:07:54.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I always feel that there's a natural give and take, 01:07:54.133 --> 01:07:57.200 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% but with drumming, it's such -- 01:07:57.200 --> 01:08:00.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% it's such a responsibility, because someone's gonna 01:08:00.333 --> 01:08:03.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% have to be the alpha in the situation. 01:08:03.666 --> 01:08:05.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Someone's gonna have to determine the meter. 01:08:05.933 --> 01:08:08.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Someone's gonna have to determine the volume, 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:10.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% the level, the dynamics. 01:08:10.566 --> 01:08:13.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% It's just, whew! 01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:14.433 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45% How? 01:08:14.433 --> 01:08:17.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% -The fact that we had Max Roach, 01:08:17.433 --> 01:08:20.000 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% whom we all idolized, 01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:23.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% so we accepted him and his domination. 01:08:23.166 --> 01:08:27.500 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% And, of course, our egos weren't as big, 01:08:27.500 --> 01:08:29.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% but we would have arguments. 01:08:29.166 --> 01:08:32.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% There was one time we were rehearsing at my studio, 01:08:32.366 --> 01:08:34.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and Max and Joe Chambers squared off. 01:08:34.866 --> 01:08:38.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Joe was the only one who had the height, the stature, 01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:40.933 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and the ego to challenge Max. 01:08:40.933 --> 01:08:42.733 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And Max said, "Well, blah-blah-blah-blah-blah," 01:08:42.733 --> 01:08:44.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and Joe said, "Oh, yeah? Well, come on. 01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:46.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We're gonna walk outside and settle this." 01:08:46.333 --> 01:08:49.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And they got together and they both marched out, 01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:52.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and everybody sat there and waited for five minutes, 01:08:52.100 --> 01:08:55.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and then they both came in smiling and laughing together. 01:08:55.066 --> 01:08:59.600 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Up-tempo tune plays ] 01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:02.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -Max was great with me. He loved me. 01:09:02.166 --> 01:09:05.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And everybody was scared of him. 01:09:05.333 --> 01:09:07.100 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And whatever I did, it made him laugh, 01:09:07.100 --> 01:09:09.233 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% and we had fun, and da, da, da. 01:09:09.233 --> 01:09:11.633 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I did my job, and he used to call me Ramon, 01:09:11.633 --> 01:09:13.700 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and he would teach me, right? 01:09:13.700 --> 01:09:17.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% He would teach me the mallets, teach me the chimes. 01:09:17.400 --> 01:09:18.600 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% "I want you to do this, Ray." 01:09:18.600 --> 01:09:22.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And I would learn it, and that's it. 01:09:22.266 --> 01:09:24.966 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% -We realized that we were going to have to create this music, 01:09:24.966 --> 01:09:27.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% so every one of us sat down 01:09:27.766 --> 01:09:31.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and composed a percussion ensemble piece 01:09:31.366 --> 01:09:33.900 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% that involved what we could do. 01:09:33.900 --> 01:09:36.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% [ All whistling ] 01:09:36.566 --> 01:09:39.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We did a whole piece which described 01:09:39.300 --> 01:09:43.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the elements of a storm, from drizzling rain... 01:09:43.866 --> 01:09:47.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% [ Saw warbling ] 01:09:47.533 --> 01:09:51.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ...through a thunderstorm and lightning. 01:09:51.200 --> 01:09:56.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% [ All whistling ] 01:09:56.566 --> 01:09:59.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% [ Saw warbling ] 01:09:59.533 --> 01:10:02.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Whistling continues ] 01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:06.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This was one of the first abstract pieces that we did 01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:09.666 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% that, you know, everybody just bought into. 01:10:09.666 --> 01:10:12.066 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% [ Whistling ] [ Bells chiming ] 01:10:14.733 --> 01:10:17.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -He would give us an idea, and we would hit on that, 01:10:17.966 --> 01:10:19.633 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% and then we would build on it. 01:10:19.633 --> 01:10:21.266 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Everybody would build on it. 01:10:21.266 --> 01:10:24.066 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And that was real. That's jazz. That's music. 01:10:24.066 --> 01:10:27.566 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:10:27.566 --> 01:10:32.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -After a year and a half of rehearsing one day a week, 01:10:32.266 --> 01:10:35.500 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Max got an endorsement 01:10:35.500 --> 01:10:38.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% from the Ludwig Drum Company... [ Applause ] 01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:43.333 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% ...and at that point, arranged our first European tour. 01:10:43.333 --> 01:10:47.066 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% [ All slapping ] 01:10:47.066 --> 01:10:50.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% That kind of established us as an entity, 01:10:50.733 --> 01:10:54.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we just kept growing and kept performing. 01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:56.000 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Slapping continues ] 01:10:56.000 --> 01:10:58.500 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:10:58.500 --> 01:11:04.233 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:11:04.233 --> 01:11:08.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -I would say that of all of the Max Roach projects -- 01:11:08.233 --> 01:11:12.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% this includes the quintet, the Clifford Brown project, 01:11:12.233 --> 01:11:13.600 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% all of the stuff with Abbey Lincoln, 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:17.333 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% his solo stuff -- the M'Boom project 01:11:17.333 --> 01:11:20.500 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% is probably his most adventurous. 01:11:22.100 --> 01:11:25.033 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% [ Cheers and applause ] 01:11:25.033 --> 01:11:27.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -Max was one of the people redefining what the music 01:11:27.666 --> 01:11:31.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% is gonna be in every decade that he was active. 01:11:31.233 --> 01:11:34.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% He was never resting on his laurels, and he could have. 01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:36.800 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% -A lot of bebop purists want Max 01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:40.166 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% and people that made that great music over 50 years ago, 01:11:40.166 --> 01:11:43.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they want those guys to continue to play the same thing. 01:11:43.533 --> 01:11:46.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And Max and those guys were always about that new 01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:47.900 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% and that next thing. 01:11:47.900 --> 01:11:49.600 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% [ Record scratching ] 01:11:49.600 --> 01:11:51.000 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:53.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -Right about now, my man with the fresh approach, 01:11:53.800 --> 01:11:57.100 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% none other than the maestro Max Roach. 01:11:57.100 --> 01:11:59.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Check, check, check, check it out. 01:11:59.100 --> 01:12:00.366 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Rock, rock. Yeah. 01:12:00.366 --> 01:12:02.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -The musical director at The Kitchen, 01:12:02.700 --> 01:12:05.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% a performance art space in New York, 01:12:05.066 --> 01:12:06.766 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% had a meeting with Max Roach, 01:12:06.766 --> 01:12:10.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and the idea came, what about a performance? 01:12:10.766 --> 01:12:13.000 align:left position:45% line:83% size:45% -Max. -This is still early '80s. 01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:14.800 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% -Yeah, Max. 01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:17.233 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:12:17.233 --> 01:12:24.800 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:27.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% -I was at that performance with Fab 5 Freddy 01:12:27.300 --> 01:12:29.433 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% and the DJs at The Kitchen, yeah. 01:12:29.433 --> 01:12:32.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Max was there with his suit, you know, debonair, 01:12:32.733 --> 01:12:35.533 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% looking like Max Roach, you know? 01:12:35.533 --> 01:12:38.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% It's like, oh, new drum music is being made in the culture? 01:12:38.433 --> 01:12:40.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Well, of course Max Roach is here. 01:12:40.233 --> 01:12:42.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% The most natural thing in the world. 01:12:42.266 --> 01:12:47.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% In some ways he was kind of this living, totemic 01:12:47.633 --> 01:12:49.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% art piece, art object. 01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:52.033 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% -[ Rapping ] ♪ I pump the mic ♪ 01:12:52.033 --> 01:12:53.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% -When the rap craze came, 01:12:53.466 --> 01:12:55.500 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% it was another thing that excited me, 01:12:55.500 --> 01:12:57.233 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% because I said, "Now, this is the same thing 01:12:57.233 --> 01:12:59.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I had been working on all these years." 01:12:59.433 --> 01:13:04.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Because what they did was just use rhythm 01:13:04.066 --> 01:13:07.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% without using the rules of music theory. 01:13:07.700 --> 01:13:09.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So when my peers say, "Well, Max, you know 01:13:09.933 --> 01:13:12.833 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% you're dealing with these rap-- what, that's not music," 01:13:12.833 --> 01:13:16.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% you know, and I say, "Well, it may not be music, 01:13:16.033 --> 01:13:19.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but it's part of the world of sound that music is part of." 01:13:19.600 --> 01:13:22.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it created something that was very valid for me. 01:13:22.566 --> 01:13:24.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -♪ Dyno-mite, dyno-mite, dyno-mite ♪ 01:13:24.600 --> 01:13:28.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% -He got the anarchic, disruptive aspects of their music. 01:13:28.300 --> 01:13:30.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And it just gives you a sense of, really, 01:13:30.233 --> 01:13:32.566 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% his connection to Blackness. 01:13:32.566 --> 01:13:36.266 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% -Of course my dad's like, "Look, Max Roach is on television." 01:13:36.266 --> 01:13:38.566 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Like, he didn't care what else was going on. 01:13:38.566 --> 01:13:42.533 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% But I was kind of looking at my dad like, "Wait a minute. 01:13:42.533 --> 01:13:44.500 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% You realize, like, 01:13:44.500 --> 01:13:47.300 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% this is a fusion collaboration between the music I like 01:13:47.300 --> 01:13:49.666 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% that you detest and the music..." 01:13:49.666 --> 01:13:51.500 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Like, this can work. 01:13:51.500 --> 01:13:53.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -We thank you very much. [ Applause ] 01:13:53.900 --> 01:13:57.633 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Max, Fab 5 Freddy. See you later. 01:13:57.633 --> 01:14:00.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -The fact that he saw that vision 01:14:00.133 --> 01:14:03.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% before it became cool in the early '90s 01:14:03.833 --> 01:14:06.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% for you to mix your hip-hop and your jazz together 01:14:06.366 --> 01:14:09.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% shows, like, how ahead of the curve he was. 01:14:09.800 --> 01:14:12.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -Now, I've seen you do "The Drum Also Waltzes." 01:14:12.033 --> 01:14:13.166 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% Can you give a little bit of that? 01:14:13.166 --> 01:14:14.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% -Oh, sure, sure, sure. Absolutely. 01:14:14.666 --> 01:14:16.833 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% So it's... 01:14:16.833 --> 01:14:18.933 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Drumming ] 01:14:18.933 --> 01:14:28.466 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:14:28.466 --> 01:14:30.733 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:14:30.733 --> 01:14:39.233 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:14:39.233 --> 01:14:47.700 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:14:47.700 --> 01:14:56.200 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:14:56.200 --> 01:15:01.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -I remember he'd look at the drum kit and he'd say, 01:15:01.033 --> 01:15:03.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% "I'm just beginning to master this." 01:15:03.966 --> 01:15:06.200 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% And he was in his 70s then. 01:15:06.200 --> 01:15:08.900 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:15:08.900 --> 01:15:12.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -Do you have the time... -The unrest that he had 01:15:12.433 --> 01:15:16.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% always propelled him, particularly in the later years, 01:15:16.333 --> 01:15:18.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as long as he could focus on what was ahead 01:15:18.866 --> 01:15:21.700 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and not duplicate anything. 01:15:21.700 --> 01:15:23.933 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% The foray into ballet 01:15:23.933 --> 01:15:29.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and playing drums with a reading of Toni Morrison -- 01:15:29.600 --> 01:15:32.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% those are some of the things that he took his instrument 01:15:32.600 --> 01:15:34.433 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% and his art to 01:15:34.433 --> 01:15:39.266 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and his desire to exceed his own boundaries. 01:15:39.266 --> 01:15:41.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Down-tempo tune plays ] 01:15:41.466 --> 01:15:48.700 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:15:48.700 --> 01:15:55.733 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:15:55.733 --> 01:15:58.033 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% -Max Roach, y'all! 01:15:58.033 --> 01:16:01.466 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:16:01.466 --> 01:16:03.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -After a while, you expected to see Max Roach 01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:05.100 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% pop up in all these places 01:16:05.100 --> 01:16:08.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and just really showcase his musicianship 01:16:08.833 --> 01:16:11.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% in so many different contexts. 01:16:11.400 --> 01:16:14.166 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:16:14.166 --> 01:16:16.666 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% [ Up-tempo tune plays ] 01:16:16.666 --> 01:16:19.533 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:16:19.533 --> 01:16:21.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -You know, I heard -- and I don't know if this is true, 01:16:21.266 --> 01:16:24.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but I heard that, you know, the older you get, 01:16:24.066 --> 01:16:28.366 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% the more you are like yourself when you were younger. 01:16:28.366 --> 01:16:30.266 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% -Go ahead. Whatever you do is good. 01:16:30.266 --> 01:16:34.166 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:16:34.166 --> 01:16:36.933 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% All right. Now you go over here, Joe. 01:16:36.933 --> 01:16:39.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% -So, you know, there's so many stories 01:16:39.466 --> 01:16:42.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% out there about his temper, 01:16:42.666 --> 01:16:46.633 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% but later in life, he was so gentle. 01:16:46.633 --> 01:16:49.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -That's all right. Go ahead. 01:16:49.133 --> 01:16:51.000 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Oh, she's bashful. 01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:53.066 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Laughter ] 01:16:53.066 --> 01:16:57.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I'm gonna do a piece called "Mop Mop." 01:16:57.033 --> 01:16:58.600 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% -"Mop Mop." 01:16:58.600 --> 01:17:00.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% -Yeah. I'm gonna play on the drums... 01:17:00.633 --> 01:17:04.300 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% ♪ Delia-da-da, delia-da-da, delia-da-da-da ♪ 01:17:04.300 --> 01:17:05.800 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% Clap, clap. 01:17:05.800 --> 01:17:09.900 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% ♪ Delia-da-da, delia-da-da, delia-da-da-da ♪ 01:17:09.900 --> 01:17:11.066 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% [ Children clapping ] 01:17:11.066 --> 01:17:15.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Very, very good. Let me try it on the drums here. 01:17:15.200 --> 01:17:18.900 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Drumming ] 01:17:18.900 --> 01:17:20.433 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% [ Children clapping ] 01:17:20.433 --> 01:17:24.033 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Drumming ] 01:17:24.033 --> 01:17:25.133 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% [ Children clapping ] 01:17:25.133 --> 01:17:27.633 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [ Drumming ] 01:17:27.633 --> 01:17:36.966 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:17:36.966 --> 01:17:46.300 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:17:46.300 --> 01:17:48.700 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% [ Children clapping ] 01:17:48.700 --> 01:17:51.600 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% My artistic efforts is to show 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:55.866 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that we can be the strongest and most creative people 01:17:55.866 --> 01:17:57.866 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% instrumentally that there is. 01:17:57.866 --> 01:18:00.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And, in fact, if I had never played music, 01:18:00.466 --> 01:18:01.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% I'd take pride in knowing that 01:18:01.900 --> 01:18:04.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Black folks are the greatest musicians in the world 01:18:04.433 --> 01:18:08.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by way of Charlie Parker and Elvin Jones 01:18:08.233 --> 01:18:12.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and Kenny Clarke and Lester Young, et cetera. 01:18:12.400 --> 01:18:15.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [ Down-tempo tune plays ] 01:18:15.433 --> 01:18:22.766 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:18:22.766 --> 01:18:25.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% -At Lincoln Center, they had inductee night 01:18:25.833 --> 01:18:30.433 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% for the Jazz Hall of Fame. 01:18:30.433 --> 01:18:33.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% He was in a wheelchair at that time, 01:18:33.033 --> 01:18:35.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% but he was talking, everything. 01:18:35.433 --> 01:18:37.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% He was, you know, joking around about stuff, 01:18:37.833 --> 01:18:44.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% you know, as Max was wont to do. 01:18:44.100 --> 01:18:48.266 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% They put Max and I in the same dressing room. 01:18:48.266 --> 01:18:53.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% All his children were there, so we talked, and he was cool. 01:18:53.666 --> 01:18:58.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But that's the last time I saw him, you know. 01:18:58.033 --> 01:19:01.633 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% And... 01:19:01.633 --> 01:19:04.500 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% it was great, you know? 01:19:04.500 --> 01:19:08.000 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:09.833 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% -Thousands of people gathered 01:19:09.833 --> 01:19:12.533 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% at Riverside Church in New York on Friday 01:19:12.533 --> 01:19:14.800 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% for the funeral of the legendary drummer, 01:19:14.800 --> 01:19:17.533 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% educator, and activist Max Roach. 01:19:17.533 --> 01:19:20.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Maya Angelou, Amiri Baraka, Sonia Sanchez, 01:19:20.900 --> 01:19:22.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and others credited Roach 01:19:22.400 --> 01:19:25.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% with helping to revolutionize the sound of jazz 01:19:25.500 --> 01:19:27.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and for playing a prominent role in the struggle 01:19:27.700 --> 01:19:31.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% for Black liberation at home and in Africa. 01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:36.933 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% -I have come to sing a song of praise 01:19:36.933 --> 01:19:41.766 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% to the courage of Black men in general 01:19:41.766 --> 01:19:44.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% and Max Roach in particular. 01:19:44.766 --> 01:19:47.666 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% It is such a wonderful thing to look 01:19:47.666 --> 01:19:50.966 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% at these friends and family, 01:19:50.966 --> 01:19:53.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% to see great names here, 01:19:53.166 --> 01:19:57.566 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% great artists who loved Max Roach 01:19:57.566 --> 01:20:02.333 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% because he had the courage to love us. 01:20:02.333 --> 01:20:06.966 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% And so I'm glad to say we had him. 01:20:06.966 --> 01:20:10.766 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% We are bigger and better and stronger 01:20:10.766 --> 01:20:13.833 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% because Max Roach was my brother. 01:20:13.833 --> 01:20:16.600 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% [ Applause ] 01:20:18.933 --> 01:20:21.333 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% -[ Drumming ] 01:20:21.333 --> 01:20:26.933 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:20:26.933 --> 01:20:32.533 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:20:32.533 --> 01:20:37.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% -You know, it's that kind of love that those giants gave us. 01:20:37.200 --> 01:20:39.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% They actually said, "We love you," you know? 01:20:39.700 --> 01:20:41.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% "We're gonna make sure you survive. 01:20:41.200 --> 01:20:43.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We're gonna give you music that will make you survive. 01:20:43.633 --> 01:20:45.233 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% You know, it will make you get out 01:20:45.233 --> 01:20:47.133 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% into the streets of America 01:20:47.133 --> 01:20:50.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and challenge everything and call people mother[bleep] 01:20:50.900 --> 01:20:53.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you know, who need to be called mother[bleep] right?" 01:20:53.100 --> 01:20:54.300 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% That was Max. 01:20:54.300 --> 01:20:56.866 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% You know, Max did that for all of us. 01:20:56.866 --> 01:21:02.900 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:21:02.900 --> 01:21:07.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% -Max Roach didn't set out to become an icon of history. 01:21:07.066 --> 01:21:11.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% He did what he did 'cause he felt it was his responsibility. 01:21:11.100 --> 01:21:14.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He wasn't trying to be anything. He was already it. 01:21:14.433 --> 01:21:20.266 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:21:20.266 --> 01:21:26.066 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:21:29.533 --> 01:21:38.200 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:21:38.200 --> 01:21:46.866 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:21:46.866 --> 01:21:55.566 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:21:55.566 --> 01:22:04.333 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:22:04.333 --> 01:22:13.000 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪ 01:22:13.000 --> 01:22:21.700 align:left position:47.5% line:5% size:42.5% ♪♪