WEBVTT 00:01.200 --> 00:02.866 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% One of the greatest beauties of a book, in my opinion, 00:03.000 --> 00:04.700 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% is that there's no passport needed to take you places 00:04.833 --> 00:07.266 align:start position:32.5% line:10% size:35% you want to go or never even knew existed. 00:07.400 --> 00:10.066 align:start position:22.5% line:10% size:55% Hi, I'm Holly Jackson, the host of Books by the River. 00:10.200 --> 00:12.033 align:start position:40% line:10% size:20% I'm here to navigate the conversation 00:12.166 --> 00:13.633 align:start position:17.5% line:10% size:65% of those who draw the maps 00:13.766 --> 00:15.933 align:start position:25% line:10% size:50% for some of the most interesting journeys 00:16.066 --> 00:18.166 align:start position:20% line:10% size:62.5% that are bound in a book. 00:18.300 --> 00:28.166 align:start position:50% line:84.67% size:2.5% ♪ 00:28.300 --> 00:38.200 align:start position:50% line:84.67% size:2.5% ♪ 00:38.333 --> 00:48.200 align:start position:50% line:84.67% size:2.5% ♪ 00:48.333 --> 00:52.366 align:start position:50% line:84.67% size:2.5% ♪ 00:52.500 --> 00:54.033 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% Major funding for Books by the River 00:54.166 --> 00:57.100 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% is brought to you by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina. 00:57.233 --> 01:00.566 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% For more than 40 years, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina 01:00.700 --> 01:03.066 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% has been a partner of South Carolina ETV 01:03.200 --> 01:05.466 align:start position:10% line:84.67% size:80% and South Carolina Public Radio. 01:05.600 --> 01:08.433 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% This program is supported by South Carolina Humanities, 01:08.566 --> 01:11.600 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% a not for profit organization inspiring, engaging, 01:11.733 --> 01:13.333 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% and enriching South Carolinians 01:13.466 --> 01:17.100 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% with programs on literature, history, culture, and heritage. 01:17.233 --> 01:20.366 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% SC Humanities receives funding from the National Endowment 01:20.500 --> 01:23.100 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% for the Humanities. Democracy demands wisdom. 01:23.233 --> 01:25.700 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% Additional funding for Books by the River is provided by 01:25.833 --> 01:28.200 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% Visit Beaufort, Port Royal and Sea Islands 01:28.333 --> 01:33.266 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% and Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USC Beaufort. 01:33.400 --> 01:36.133 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% Holly> We have the pleasure of talking to Rhonda McKnight today 01:36.266 --> 01:37.466 align:start position:22.5% line:84.67% size:55% Rhonda, thanks so much 01:37.600 --> 01:41.066 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% for joining us here in beautiful Beaufort for Books by the River. 01:41.200 --> 01:42.433 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% Rhonda> Thanks so much for having me. 01:42.566 --> 01:44.566 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% I'm excited to talk to you today. 01:44.700 --> 01:46.200 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% Holly> And traveled from just down the road 01:46.333 --> 01:47.333 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:67.5% in Manning, South Carolina. 01:47.466 --> 01:49.633 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% I have to give the small towns a little shout out. 01:49.766 --> 01:50.966 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:50% Tell us a little bit 01:51.100 --> 01:54.800 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% about yourself and kind of what brought you to writing books 01:54.933 --> 01:56.866 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% and how many you have and all that stuff. 01:57.000 --> 02:00.333 align:start position:42.5% line:10% size:17.5% Rhonda> Well, I am a mom first. 02:00.466 --> 02:04.366 align:start position:30% line:10% size:40% I have two sons, 32 and 18. 02:04.500 --> 02:07.100 align:start position:17.5% line:10% size:67.5% I've been writing, I think, since I was a little girl, 02:07.233 --> 02:08.300 align:start position:30% line:10% size:42.5% probably age six. 02:08.433 --> 02:12.066 align:start position:25% line:10% size:52.5% I remember my I think the writing began as drawings. 02:12.200 --> 02:13.733 align:start position:32.5% line:84.67% size:35% My father was, 02:13.866 --> 02:15.700 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% in technical college, and he used to have the 02:15.833 --> 02:17.033 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% he was taking a drafting class, 02:17.166 --> 02:18.733 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% and he had these big sheets of paper. 02:18.866 --> 02:22.100 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And so I used to take the ones that were scraps 02:22.233 --> 02:24.100 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% and draw pictures on the back. 02:24.233 --> 02:27.466 align:start position:37.5% line:79.33% size:27.5% And I began to make picture books. 02:27.600 --> 02:29.233 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And so my first story was a story 02:29.366 --> 02:33.033 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% about a family of mice that lived under the boardwalk 02:33.166 --> 02:35.600 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% in Asbury Park, where I grew up in New Jersey. 02:35.733 --> 02:40.733 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% So it began there and continued until through high school. 02:40.866 --> 02:42.366 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% I wrote for the school paper 02:42.500 --> 02:44.266 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% and just kind of stopped in college, got busy with 02:44.400 --> 02:47.300 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% you know, writing for school and got away from it 02:47.433 --> 02:50.733 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% until my late 20s, when I sort of remembered 02:50.866 --> 02:52.666 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% I was reading a great book and thinking, 02:52.800 --> 02:55.666 align:start position:37.5% line:79.33% size:25% "You know, I used to write books," and 02:55.800 --> 02:59.133 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% I had gotten away from it and decided that I wanted to, 02:59.266 --> 03:02.300 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% you know, try my hand at writing a novel again. 03:02.433 --> 03:04.000 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% Holly> You know, I hear so many stories of that, 03:04.133 --> 03:05.833 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% whether it's musicians or writers 03:05.966 --> 03:08.166 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% who started, they took this little break, 03:08.300 --> 03:10.200 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% but it's always kind of tugging at them. 03:10.333 --> 03:12.033 align:start position:45% line:79.33% size:12.5% Let's go back to those original days. 03:12.166 --> 03:14.900 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% Is there a moment, although you started 03:15.033 --> 03:16.033 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45% maybe like 5 or 6, 03:16.166 --> 03:17.633 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% was there a time whenever someone said, hey, 03:17.766 --> 03:20.433 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% I think you have a gift or you kind of knew within yourself 03:20.566 --> 03:22.000 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% I might be onto something here? 03:22.133 --> 03:24.600 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% Rhonda> You know, I really didn't and I think I believed 03:24.733 --> 03:27.133 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% that everyone had stories and charachters 03:27.266 --> 03:29.300 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% and like these voices in their head. 03:29.433 --> 03:33.166 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% And it wasn't until I was in college that I had 03:33.300 --> 03:37.200 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% a professor I'd written a paper, rushed to get it done. 03:37.333 --> 03:40.233 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% It was one of those all night things. 03:40.366 --> 03:41.733 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45% And he said to me, 03:41.866 --> 03:44.133 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% he asked me what my major was, and he said, "You know, 03:44.266 --> 03:46.233 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% have you ever thought about writing?" 03:46.366 --> 03:49.466 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% And I thought, "Well, no, not really." 03:49.600 --> 03:50.600 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% And he said, "Well, you know, 03:50.733 --> 03:51.933 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% I think you have some talent there. 03:52.066 --> 03:53.600 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% Like if you did a little more work on this, 03:53.733 --> 03:55.466 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% you could get this published." 03:55.600 --> 03:57.366 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% And that was the first time I thought, like, 03:57.500 --> 04:00.633 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% "Everyone doesn't write well?" <laughs> 04:00.766 --> 04:02.133 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% Holly> Yeah, you thought this was just the norm! 04:02.266 --> 04:03.333 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% Rhonda> -that it was the norm. 04:03.466 --> 04:06.066 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% And so I consider that and again, just sort of tucked 04:06.200 --> 04:09.233 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% it away, like I said, until I was in my late 20s. 04:09.366 --> 04:13.300 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% So it was that I think that my 10th grade, 04:13.433 --> 04:15.333 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% English teacher, honors English teacher, 04:15.466 --> 04:16.733 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% - Mrs. Mitchell, I'll never forget her. 04:16.866 --> 04:19.533 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% I dedicated my first novel to her - 04:19.666 --> 04:22.900 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% always told me that I had a gift with words, 04:23.033 --> 04:28.333 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% and she made me the editor of the high school paper. 04:28.466 --> 04:33.366 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% And so I knew that I kind of had these little clues 04:33.500 --> 04:35.300 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% that people thought that I could write, 04:35.433 --> 04:39.066 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% but I never really embraced it in any way 04:39.200 --> 04:42.400 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% until I was reading a Terry McMillan novel. 04:42.533 --> 04:43.633 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% I think it was Terry McMillan. 04:43.766 --> 04:48.033 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And I thought, "Wow," waiting to exhale. 04:48.166 --> 04:49.333 align:start position:32.5% line:84.67% size:35% And I thought, 04:49.466 --> 04:52.900 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% this is a wonderful story about these beautiful black women, 04:53.033 --> 04:54.700 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% and I could do this, you know? 04:54.833 --> 04:58.666 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% I think seeing her books kind of gave me a sense that, 04:58.800 --> 05:01.466 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% this was something I could do. 05:01.600 --> 05:03.233 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% You know, I always say representation really 05:03.366 --> 05:04.600 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30% does matter. 05:04.733 --> 05:07.333 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% Holly> Tell me about your writing style and when that 05:07.466 --> 05:11.266 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% might have taken a shift into writing something different. 05:11.400 --> 05:13.866 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% Rhonda> You know, I always wanted to write novels. 05:14.000 --> 05:15.066 align:start position:22.5% line:84.67% size:55% Even when I was a kid. 05:15.200 --> 05:17.200 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% What I was writing was books. 05:17.333 --> 05:19.466 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:67.5% Like, I never wrote poetry. 05:19.600 --> 05:20.766 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45% My dad was a poet. 05:20.900 --> 05:22.166 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:52.5% My brother is a poet. 05:22.300 --> 05:23.566 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% I never wrote short stories. 05:23.700 --> 05:25.800 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% I actually still struggled to write short. 05:25.933 --> 05:28.400 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% I always wanted to write books. 05:28.533 --> 05:32.566 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% And so I started taking some writing workshops after I 05:32.700 --> 05:36.033 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% sort of got that buzz, you know, like, "Oh, maybe I should try." 05:36.166 --> 05:37.866 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% I took a couple of writing workshops, 05:38.000 --> 05:39.533 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60% joined a writer's group, 05:39.666 --> 05:42.833 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% and then joined a critique group and just really studied 05:42.966 --> 05:44.066 align:start position:37.5% line:84.67% size:25% for years. 05:44.200 --> 05:47.633 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% But I kept sort of getting to seven chapters 05:47.766 --> 05:49.466 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:67.5% and never moving past that. 05:49.600 --> 05:51.366 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:52.5% I had a lot of ideas. 05:51.500 --> 05:53.066 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% I would pick up and try a new one. 05:53.200 --> 05:54.833 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% I wasn't finishing anything, 05:54.966 --> 05:58.533 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% and it wasn't until 2003 that I decided, you know, 05:58.666 --> 06:02.333 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% I really need to pick one project, commit to it 06:02.466 --> 06:04.133 align:start position:32.5% line:84.67% size:35% and finish it. 06:04.266 --> 06:07.666 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% And so it took me four years, but I finally did. 06:07.800 --> 06:09.400 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% And that ended up being my first novel, 06:09.533 --> 06:10.766 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% and I sold it that same year. 06:10.900 --> 06:12.100 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> Wow. Okay. 06:12.233 --> 06:15.233 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% So you get that first one down and then I mean, that was it. 06:15.366 --> 06:16.400 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:50% There you go. Right? 06:16.533 --> 06:17.933 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% You just keep writing and writing. 06:18.066 --> 06:20.800 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% Tell me how many you're at now, 06:20.933 --> 06:24.633 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% and kind of your writing process in terms of like a schedule. 06:24.766 --> 06:28.033 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% Rhonda> So I write full time now which is a beautiful thing 06:28.166 --> 06:29.333 align:start position:30% line:84.67% size:42.5% to be able to do. 06:29.466 --> 06:32.600 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% I have, I think I have 27 books I should have counted. 06:32.733 --> 06:34.100 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% <laughs> Holly> I love that you say, "I think." 06:34.233 --> 06:35.966 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% You're at that point where you're like <laughs> 06:36.100 --> 06:39.066 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% Rhonda> 27 or 28. And so, which is really exciting. 06:39.200 --> 06:42.833 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% I started off writing relationship fiction - 06:42.966 --> 06:44.866 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% my first three novels - and then the imprint 06:45.000 --> 06:47.633 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% that I was published with dissolved. 06:47.766 --> 06:51.100 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% And so I didn't have a book deal anymore, and 06:51.233 --> 06:52.933 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:65% I decided to self-publish, 06:53.066 --> 06:55.466 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% and I self-published my first romance. 06:55.600 --> 06:57.600 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:50% I wrote 22 of those. 06:57.733 --> 07:00.900 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% And then during the pandemic, I started thinking about 07:01.033 --> 07:02.866 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% kind of thinking about my legacy as a writer. 07:03.000 --> 07:06.366 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And I wanted to write something that I thought was, 07:06.500 --> 07:07.933 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% even though I love romance, and I know 07:08.066 --> 07:11.066 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% romance is the number one selling genre of all books, 07:11.200 --> 07:13.300 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% I wanted to write something that felt like 07:13.433 --> 07:15.866 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% a little more important, something that included 07:16.000 --> 07:18.966 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% my favorite genre, which is history. 07:19.100 --> 07:23.933 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% But with respect to my schedule, I am not an everyday writer. 07:24.066 --> 07:25.966 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% I know people say, "Write every day! 07:26.100 --> 07:28.533 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% You'll be a better writer." And I believe that that's true. 07:28.666 --> 07:30.300 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% But my schedule just doesn't permit 07:30.433 --> 07:31.400 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:65% for me to write every day. 07:31.533 --> 07:33.966 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% I sort of am one of those people who write 07:34.100 --> 07:35.300 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% when I have a deadline. I write 07:35.433 --> 07:39.466 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% when it's time to write a book and so I write pretty quickly. 07:39.600 --> 07:43.066 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% Not as fast today as I was maybe ten years ago, 07:43.200 --> 07:47.333 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% but I sit down, I do a complete outline, and, you know, 07:47.466 --> 07:49.100 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% you've probably heard of "pansters," 07:49.233 --> 07:51.033 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:20% I am the opposite of a "pantster." 07:51.166 --> 07:52.966 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% I must have an outline to know where I'm going. 07:53.100 --> 07:55.200 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% I typically write the first chapter first, 07:55.333 --> 07:58.333 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% the last chapter second, and then figure out 07:58.466 --> 08:00.000 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% what's happening in the middle. 08:00.133 --> 08:02.866 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% And so I always have to know exactly how my book is going 08:03.000 --> 08:06.900 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% to end, or I'm very miserable in the writing process. 08:07.033 --> 08:10.900 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% So I'm very much an outliner who gets to know my characters 08:11.033 --> 08:14.933 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% really well, or as well as I can before I start writing. 08:15.066 --> 08:16.733 align:start position:40% line:84.67% size:22.5% And then, 08:16.866 --> 08:18.466 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:47.5% I write pretty much 08:18.600 --> 08:22.433 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% 10-11 hour days until I finish that project. 08:22.566 --> 08:23.733 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> Wow, that is a lot. 08:23.866 --> 08:26.533 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% But I love connecting dots within the interviews, 08:26.666 --> 08:28.733 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% and I've already done that here, because remember 08:28.866 --> 08:30.200 align:start position:37.5% line:79.33% size:25% you talked about that college paper 08:30.333 --> 08:31.800 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% and how it was one of those rush things. 08:31.933 --> 08:33.933 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% You were up all night going so hard at it. 08:34.066 --> 08:35.900 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% And then that's when the professor 08:36.033 --> 08:37.566 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:62.5% really noticed something. 08:37.700 --> 08:39.100 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60% And so then here you are 08:39.233 --> 08:40.433 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% the same way when you write your books, 08:40.566 --> 08:44.033 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% you have to be on that kind of rushed schedule. 08:44.166 --> 08:46.366 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% I'm kind of like that myself, so I know how this goes. 08:46.500 --> 08:48.533 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% It's like you love it and hate it all at the same time. 08:48.666 --> 08:50.166 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% Rhonda> Love and hate it for sure. 08:50.300 --> 08:51.366 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> Like, "Why am I like this?" 08:51.500 --> 08:53.200 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% But no, this is how I have to be. 08:53.333 --> 08:56.000 align:start position:37.5% line:79.33% size:25% All right, so tell me about the pandemic 08:56.133 --> 08:58.933 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% and how that shifted all of us in some form or fashion. 08:59.066 --> 09:00.933 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% I think we all have the story of like, 09:01.066 --> 09:03.933 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% who we were before pandemic and who we are now. 09:04.066 --> 09:06.766 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:32.5% Tell me about your change as a writer 09:06.900 --> 09:09.033 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% and why you kind of went to that realization of, 09:09.166 --> 09:13.600 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% I want to do something that means something more than just, 09:13.733 --> 09:17.400 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% not just, but I mean, it was romance, entertainment. 09:17.533 --> 09:20.833 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% Why did you decide that you needed to make that shift? 09:20.966 --> 09:22.333 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% Rhonda> You know, I was gardening, 09:22.466 --> 09:23.733 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% and I was not a pandemic gardener. 09:23.866 --> 09:25.266 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:65% I'd been gardening before. 09:25.400 --> 09:26.633 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:67.5% I was sitting in the garden 09:26.766 --> 09:30.366 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% and behind the garden, there are cornfields. 09:30.500 --> 09:32.533 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% Across the street there's wheat and there's cows, 09:32.666 --> 09:36.600 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% and both of my grandfathers were farmers on both sides. 09:36.733 --> 09:39.066 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% And I started thinking about the legacy of farmers 09:39.200 --> 09:42.233 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% in South Carolina and specifically the legacy 09:42.366 --> 09:45.566 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% of Black farmers, and how much that was lost during Jim Crow. 09:45.700 --> 09:49.266 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% And I thought, gosh, I want to write about this, but 09:49.400 --> 09:52.733 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% I didn't know how. I mean, I was at that time, 09:52.866 --> 09:54.466 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% I had stopped writing in 2018. 09:54.600 --> 09:56.100 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:62.5% I was a full time writer. 09:56.233 --> 09:58.833 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% I was writing romance that was paying the bills. 09:58.966 --> 10:02.866 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% But I kept thinking, I want to write something different. 10:03.000 --> 10:05.866 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% I was editing a lot that year 10:06.000 --> 10:08.700 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% because I do some freelance editing, so I wasn't really 10:08.833 --> 10:12.033 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% writing very much for myself or for my readers. 10:12.166 --> 10:14.333 align:start position:42.5% line:84.67% size:15% And so 10:14.466 --> 10:15.400 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45% I started thinking 10:15.533 --> 10:18.300 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% about what kind of character would the readers 10:18.433 --> 10:22.166 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% who currently read me, where would they follow me? 10:22.300 --> 10:25.566 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% And so that was sort of swirling around in my head 10:25.700 --> 10:26.933 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% and in my spirit. And one day, 10:27.066 --> 10:30.866 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% I was sitting out in the yard and I saw this woman, 10:31.000 --> 10:32.966 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% being left at the altar by her husband 10:33.100 --> 10:34.833 align:start position:30% line:84.67% size:42.5% at a vow renewal. 10:34.966 --> 10:36.666 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% And I thought, "That's the kind of character 10:36.800 --> 10:39.566 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% that my current readers would follow me to." 10:39.700 --> 10:44.200 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% And then I could, set this story on a farm. 10:44.333 --> 10:49.000 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% I felt like I wanted readers, I wanted to introduce my readers 10:49.133 --> 10:50.766 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% and anyone else that I could 10:50.900 --> 10:54.600 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% to the beauty that I had discovered in South Carolina. 10:54.733 --> 10:58.666 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% I traveled to South Carolina my whole life during the summers 10:58.800 --> 11:00.933 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% for a week or two as a child, 11:01.066 --> 11:04.500 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% and so that was a very important part of my childhood. 11:04.633 --> 11:07.800 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% But it was kind of, you come, you're on vacation, you leave. 11:07.933 --> 11:11.800 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And so I did not have a real appreciation 11:11.933 --> 11:15.966 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% for the beauty and the history, the culture. 11:16.100 --> 11:19.066 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% So many things that I've learned 11:19.200 --> 11:22.033 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% about South Carolina as a child until I moved here. 11:22.166 --> 11:24.533 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% And so I wanted to write about that. 11:24.666 --> 11:28.233 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% And I think that the pandemic really 11:28.366 --> 11:31.966 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% helped me to feel like it was okay to shift, 11:32.100 --> 11:36.566 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% and it was time to do something that felt more important to me. 11:36.700 --> 11:38.533 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> That was still quite a risk. 11:38.666 --> 11:41.066 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% I mean, you already had this established group. 11:41.200 --> 11:43.100 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% Were you nervous that they might not follow, 11:43.233 --> 11:45.533 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:22.5% but still you were willing to go there? 11:45.666 --> 11:48.400 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% Rhonda> Absolutely. I was very nervous. 11:48.533 --> 11:51.166 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% You know, books that are independently published 11:51.300 --> 11:52.666 align:start position:10% line:84.67% size:80% sometimes can be less expensive. 11:52.800 --> 11:54.800 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% You know, people are downloading from their Kindles 11:54.933 --> 11:55.866 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:52.5% and things like that. 11:56.000 --> 11:57.500 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And so, traditionally published 11:57.633 --> 11:58.800 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:62.5% books are more expensive. 11:58.933 --> 12:02.266 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% And so I was very concerned that people would not follow me, 12:02.400 --> 12:06.133 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:32.5% but I decided I had to trust the story. 12:06.266 --> 12:10.166 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:22.5% I had to, I knew it would find readers, 12:10.300 --> 12:12.100 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% and hopefully it would be some of the readers 12:12.233 --> 12:14.133 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% who currently read me, and then 12:14.266 --> 12:16.133 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% there would be new readers and that would be okay. 12:16.266 --> 12:20.300 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% And I just needed to trust that where I wanted to go was okay, 12:20.433 --> 12:25.766 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% and I couldn't allow myself to feel trapped 12:25.900 --> 12:29.166 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% in writing something that I didn't want to write anymore. 12:29.300 --> 12:30.833 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> Now you had these 12:30.966 --> 12:32.766 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% roots in South Carolina, so you had family 12:32.900 --> 12:34.700 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% you would visit, but you weren't from here. 12:34.833 --> 12:37.166 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% Tell me about that research process 12:37.300 --> 12:40.200 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% and the discovery process. What was that like for you? 12:40.333 --> 12:42.866 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% Rhonda> It was enjoyable. It was a lot of fun. 12:43.000 --> 12:45.866 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% I did a lot of driving around. 12:46.000 --> 12:48.866 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% I drove to Georgetown, where the novel is actually set, 12:49.000 --> 12:52.400 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% spent time there, just kind of riding the streets, 12:52.533 --> 12:55.033 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% looking at things, getting a sense of things, 12:55.166 --> 12:58.033 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% feeling like sort of the energy of the area. 12:58.166 --> 13:01.800 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% And I did a lot of research at the Avery Research Center, 13:01.933 --> 13:03.433 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% which is a part of the University 13:03.566 --> 13:06.300 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:62.5% of College of Charleston, 13:06.433 --> 13:09.133 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% which is an amazing repository of information. 13:09.266 --> 13:10.500 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60% The staff is so helpful. 13:10.633 --> 13:12.266 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% There was just so much there. 13:12.400 --> 13:14.566 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% I really, really enjoyed, I love research, 13:14.700 --> 13:17.066 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% I think I love research more than I like writing, 13:17.200 --> 13:19.233 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% like I don't write every day, but I would research every day. 13:19.366 --> 13:23.233 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% And so I had to sort of <laughs> turn the research off 13:23.366 --> 13:26.466 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% because I get so, caught up in it 13:26.600 --> 13:29.566 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% that I fall in love with learning about history 13:29.700 --> 13:32.566 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:22.5% and about other people's stories. 13:32.700 --> 13:34.000 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> I'm glad to hear that you, 13:34.133 --> 13:38.366 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% you went places because I know it's so easy now 13:38.500 --> 13:39.900 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% with, you know, all the technology we have, 13:40.033 --> 13:41.033 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:67.5% where you could just sit in 13:41.166 --> 13:42.833 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% your living room and do all this research. 13:42.966 --> 13:44.266 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% Tell me what it's like to actually 13:44.400 --> 13:46.866 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% go to these places, touch, feel, see, 13:47.000 --> 13:48.466 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% and the difference that makes 13:48.600 --> 13:50.700 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% and how it translates into your writing. 13:50.833 --> 13:53.166 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% Rhonda> I think that for me, it 13:53.300 --> 13:55.166 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% because I do do a lot of research online, 13:55.300 --> 13:58.200 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% but I notice the difference between when I've researched 13:58.333 --> 14:01.200 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% some place online and then I go visit, 14:01.333 --> 14:03.300 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% I just get a different sense. 14:03.433 --> 14:09.233 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% I am one of those writers who has to immerse herself 14:09.366 --> 14:10.666 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% in the characters and the stories. 14:10.800 --> 14:12.633 align:start position:10% line:84.67% size:80% I always say I'm always writing. 14:12.766 --> 14:14.000 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:67.5% I don't care if I'm eating, 14:14.133 --> 14:16.800 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% washing dishes, like, they're marinating around in my spirit. 14:16.933 --> 14:20.566 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% And so when I go to those locations, it's the same thing. 14:20.700 --> 14:22.766 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% I feel like, okay, I'm a part of this, 14:22.900 --> 14:24.200 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% and sometimes things look different 14:24.333 --> 14:26.133 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% than they do on the internet also. 14:26.266 --> 14:28.866 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% And then the beautiful thing is, I meet people 14:29.000 --> 14:31.000 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% and I ask questions because I've never met a stranger. 14:31.133 --> 14:32.433 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60% I'm just like my mother. 14:32.566 --> 14:36.100 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% And so, one example is I visited the Gullah Museum 14:36.233 --> 14:40.800 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% just to, kind of take pictures, look at some of the history 14:40.933 --> 14:43.833 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% there, and ended up spending four hours 14:43.966 --> 14:47.033 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% there talking to the man who owns the museum, and another 14:47.166 --> 14:50.166 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% man who gave me quite a bit of history, 14:50.300 --> 14:53.500 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% of South Carolina's educational system 14:53.633 --> 14:56.066 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% in Georgetown, which I needed for my book. 14:56.200 --> 15:01.266 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% And so I think that boots on the ground gets you a lot more. 15:01.400 --> 15:02.533 align:start position:10% line:84.67% size:80% And I know that sometimes people 15:02.666 --> 15:04.400 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% can't because of depending on where they're writing. 15:04.533 --> 15:05.633 align:start position:32.5% line:84.67% size:37.5% But for me, I'm 15:05.766 --> 15:08.533 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% right here in South Carolina, it's a 90 minute drive. 15:08.666 --> 15:10.066 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:52.5% I spend a lot of time 15:10.200 --> 15:14.800 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% driving the streets and just sort of feeling, 15:14.933 --> 15:17.300 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% trying to feel what my characters would feel 15:17.433 --> 15:18.600 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45% if they were here. 15:18.733 --> 15:22.300 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% Holly> I keep saying in my head, "marinating in the spirit," 15:22.433 --> 15:24.066 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% because I thought that was beautiful. 15:24.200 --> 15:26.700 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% So I really like how you said that. All right. 15:26.833 --> 15:29.166 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% So we talked a little bit earlier about the 15:29.300 --> 15:32.266 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% the risk taking of those few of those, readers. 15:32.400 --> 15:35.333 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% Do they follow you and how did they accept it? 15:35.466 --> 15:38.466 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% Rhonda> You know, quite a many of them did. 15:38.600 --> 15:41.400 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% You know, I check out my, my analytics and my newsletter 15:41.533 --> 15:42.566 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> Isn't that fun? 15:42.700 --> 15:44.600 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% Rhonda> And so I think that quite a many of them did. 15:44.733 --> 15:47.466 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% And so some of the reviews that they have written for me 15:47.600 --> 15:48.566 align:start position:32.5% line:84.67% size:35% are beautiful. 15:48.700 --> 15:51.333 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% And it's so funny because so many times they say, 15:51.466 --> 15:54.966 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% oh, you know, "I wasn't sure what you were doing. 15:55.100 --> 15:57.000 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% I'm not I really don't like reading, you 15:57.133 --> 16:00.633 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% know, history, I like romance or I like a contemporary story." 16:00.766 --> 16:04.233 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% And they were always so pleased, like, oh my gosh, 16:04.366 --> 16:06.933 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% I think we even had a reader say to me, 16:07.066 --> 16:08.866 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% she said, "I think that we pigeonholed you. 16:09.000 --> 16:10.966 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:47.5% We limited you, and 16:11.100 --> 16:12.633 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60% Now you're writing these 16:12.766 --> 16:15.766 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% beautiful, much richer stories." And like, she owned it 16:15.900 --> 16:16.866 align:start position:40% line:84.67% size:20% <laughs> 16:17.000 --> 16:18.100 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% Holly> I know! Whenever you said, 16:18.233 --> 16:20.500 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% the reader said, "We pidgeonholed you." 16:20.633 --> 16:23.500 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% I loved that they thought they were like 16:23.633 --> 16:26.300 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% part of your process and that they were holding 16:26.433 --> 16:27.966 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:22.5% you back, and then they let you, you know, 16:28.100 --> 16:29.866 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% taking ownership of it. That's really cool. 16:30.000 --> 16:31.533 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% Rhonda> And I think that they were 16:31.666 --> 16:33.733 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% they felt that way because I spent a lot of time 16:33.866 --> 16:35.400 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% on social media talking to my readers. 16:35.533 --> 16:38.600 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% I do a lot of lives and chats and things and share a lot. 16:38.733 --> 16:41.366 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% And so they kind of knew, "Oh, I'm thinking about 16:41.500 --> 16:42.800 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% doing this different thing, I don't know, 16:42.933 --> 16:44.500 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% I hope you guys will like it." 16:44.633 --> 16:47.500 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And so they knew that I had that anxiety. 16:47.633 --> 16:50.333 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And so they were able to, you know, then respond. 16:50.466 --> 16:51.700 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> Yeah, that's really neat 16:51.833 --> 16:53.266 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% that you make them part of the process. 16:53.400 --> 16:55.766 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% So I'm sure that's part of what you do with them. 16:55.900 --> 16:57.533 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60% And that's another thing 16:57.666 --> 17:01.933 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% with the pandemic, the shift and seeing so many authors go on 17:02.066 --> 17:05.200 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% and, go online and just kind of bring the readers in. 17:05.333 --> 17:06.966 align:start position:30% line:84.67% size:42.5% I love the change 17:07.100 --> 17:10.000 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% that that had on books and authors and readers. 17:10.133 --> 17:13.000 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% Tell me about that process for you and 17:13.133 --> 17:15.866 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% what's it like to have that connection? 17:16.000 --> 17:18.433 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% Rhonda> I love it because I am very much 17:18.566 --> 17:19.600 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:52.5% sort of an extrovert. 17:19.733 --> 17:22.000 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% I think that a lot of my writing peers are not. 17:22.133 --> 17:23.566 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:47.5% They're introverts. 17:23.700 --> 17:25.300 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% And so I sort of feed off people. 17:25.433 --> 17:28.700 align:start position:37.5% line:79.33% size:25% So I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy, 17:28.833 --> 17:32.333 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% building those relationships with my readers 17:32.466 --> 17:34.966 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% and really hearing what they think and what they 17:35.100 --> 17:36.600 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% what they like and what they don't like. 17:36.733 --> 17:41.133 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% And I'm really open to hearing what they like 17:41.266 --> 17:43.800 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% and what they don't like. And I don't take it personally. 17:43.933 --> 17:47.066 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% I think that when an author puts a book in the world, 17:47.200 --> 17:50.100 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% it becomes the world's book. 17:50.233 --> 17:52.133 align:start position:37.5% line:79.33% size:25% It becomes the readers experience. 17:52.266 --> 17:55.900 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% So no matter what, it's always the story. 17:56.033 --> 17:57.100 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% The story belongs to them now. 17:57.233 --> 18:00.033 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% Once I finish, once it's published, it belongs to them. 18:00.166 --> 18:04.700 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% So I've had people say to me, "Well, did this happen?" 18:04.833 --> 18:06.033 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% Or, "Did this really happen, 18:06.166 --> 18:07.266 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% because I thought it was this way?" 18:07.400 --> 18:09.000 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% And "Is that what your intention was?" 18:09.133 --> 18:12.333 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% I said my intention was whatever it was that you experienced, 18:12.466 --> 18:15.400 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% you know, whatever you believe to be true about this 18:15.533 --> 18:18.400 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% relationship in the book is what's true. 18:18.533 --> 18:19.666 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:47.5% Holly> Right! Okay. 18:19.800 --> 18:23.066 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% So I've been so captivated by you as an author, a writer. 18:23.200 --> 18:25.533 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% I've failed to ask you about your book. 18:25.666 --> 18:27.000 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% Rhonda> <laughs> Holly> So here we are, 18:27.133 --> 18:28.166 align:start position:30% line:84.67% size:42.5% Bitter and Sweet, 18:28.300 --> 18:29.500 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% We don't want to leave that part out. 18:29.633 --> 18:30.900 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% Tell us about Bitter and Sweet, 18:31.033 --> 18:32.766 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% and kind of set the stage for it. 18:32.900 --> 18:34.966 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% Rhonda> Bitter and Sweet - I'm so excited about this book. 18:35.100 --> 18:37.333 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% I think it's probably the best book that I've written. 18:37.466 --> 18:39.900 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% Maybe, I don't know, maybe all others feel like that. 18:40.033 --> 18:42.133 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% About your current book, but it's the story 18:42.266 --> 18:45.966 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% of estranged sisters who are at a crossroad, 18:46.100 --> 18:47.433 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30% who find the 18:47.566 --> 18:51.433 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% solutions to the problems they have in their lives 18:51.566 --> 18:54.866 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% and 100 year old letters from their great-great-grandmother. 18:55.000 --> 18:57.233 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% The novel is written in dual timelines. 18:57.366 --> 18:59.566 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% So there's a contemporary story with the sisters, 18:59.700 --> 19:01.100 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% and then there's a historical story. 19:01.233 --> 19:05.166 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% About 50% of the book is written in the past, 19:05.300 --> 19:09.033 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% during the years of 1915 and 1938, in Charleston, South 19:09.166 --> 19:12.966 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% Carolina, where their great great grandmother is 19:13.100 --> 19:17.600 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% trying to build her own life, 19:17.733 --> 19:19.700 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:65% when she's left home wrong 19:19.833 --> 19:21.966 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% and has to figure out how to survive 19:22.100 --> 19:24.300 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% when the only thing she knows how to do is cook. 19:24.433 --> 19:27.733 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% And so there are letters that she has written 19:27.900 --> 19:28.966 align:start position:30% line:84.67% size:40% during this time 19:29.100 --> 19:31.300 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% that the sisters begin to read, and they find that 19:31.433 --> 19:34.700 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% a lot of the issues and problems they have in the present 19:34.833 --> 19:37.166 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% mirror the problems that their great-great- 19:37.300 --> 19:38.633 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% grandmother had in the past. 19:38.766 --> 19:39.933 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> All right. 19:40.066 --> 19:44.366 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% And family dynamics can be complicated and joyful and sad. 19:44.500 --> 19:47.000 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% And so tell us, what kinds of emotions 19:47.133 --> 19:49.166 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:52.5% will this book evoke? 19:49.300 --> 19:50.666 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% Rhonda> Bitter and Sweet is, one... 19:50.800 --> 19:52.433 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:32.5% it will evoke the bitter and the sweet. 19:52.566 --> 19:55.666 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:20% <laughs> There are lots of moments 19:55.800 --> 19:58.666 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:32.5% where there's a lot of grandma wisdom 19:58.800 --> 20:01.866 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% that I think bring warmth to the story. 20:02.000 --> 20:04.233 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% There are some romantic elements because I continue 20:04.366 --> 20:06.866 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% to bring romance into my books a little, 20:07.000 --> 20:08.800 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% and so there are sweet moments 20:08.933 --> 20:10.133 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% with some of the male characters. 20:10.266 --> 20:12.633 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% There's some humor, there's lots of food. 20:12.766 --> 20:15.500 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% So there are a lot of places where there's comfort, 20:15.633 --> 20:17.733 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% but there's also some difficult places. 20:17.866 --> 20:20.533 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% The relationship between these two sisters is 20:20.666 --> 20:22.100 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:65% pretty bad, like they are, 20:22.233 --> 20:23.700 align:start position:22.5% line:84.67% size:55% they have none at all. 20:23.833 --> 20:27.733 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% And in particular, one - they're both struggling with pain. 20:27.866 --> 20:31.300 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30% It's largely a novel about grief, 20:31.433 --> 20:35.233 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% people having to overcome grief in different ways. 20:35.366 --> 20:39.533 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% Not just the sisters, but even their great-great-grandmother. 20:39.666 --> 20:42.800 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% And so there is a mental health rep in the book. 20:42.933 --> 20:45.233 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% There's actual therapy on the page, 20:45.366 --> 20:48.466 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% which I'm really proud of, how those scenes came out. 20:48.600 --> 20:51.133 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% I think sometimes in the black community, 20:51.266 --> 20:53.500 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% people can be skittish about therapy. 20:53.633 --> 20:55.700 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% And then sometimes in Christian communities, 20:55.833 --> 20:58.800 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% people can be like, "Oh, well, we want Jesus to work it out, 20:58.933 --> 21:00.233 align:start position:30% line:84.67% size:42.5% not a therapist." 21:00.366 --> 21:02.933 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% And so it was risky in that respect, 21:03.066 --> 21:05.666 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% but it has been loved by readers. 21:05.800 --> 21:06.933 align:start position:42.5% line:84.67% size:15% And so 21:07.066 --> 21:10.233 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% I think that people feel - people have communicated to me 21:10.366 --> 21:14.033 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% that they feel a lot of the warm, 21:14.166 --> 21:17.133 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% loving feelings that they usually get from my books, 21:17.266 --> 21:20.566 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% but also they're able to deeply reflect 21:20.700 --> 21:23.733 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% on their own lives and kind of look at places where 21:23.866 --> 21:25.633 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% maybe they're not as forgiving, 21:25.766 --> 21:27.633 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% or maybe they're hard on themselves. 21:27.766 --> 21:31.166 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% Maybe they feel trapped in shame. And then 21:31.300 --> 21:34.466 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% I get to cheer on resilience because we all love the story 21:34.600 --> 21:35.533 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45% of a strong woman. 21:35.666 --> 21:36.700 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> Absolutely. 21:36.833 --> 21:39.066 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% It's clear that family is very important to you. 21:39.200 --> 21:41.066 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% I mean, you came back to your roots. 21:41.200 --> 21:42.633 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:32.5% Your father's here in the studio, 21:42.766 --> 21:45.033 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% which is really special to have. You've mentioned your sons. 21:45.166 --> 21:47.333 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% Tell me about your first readers. 21:47.466 --> 21:50.800 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% Who were your first readers and what did they mean to you? 21:50.933 --> 21:53.600 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% And do you take their advice? Tell me about that. 21:53.733 --> 21:57.600 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% My first readers were the women in my critique group 21:57.733 --> 22:01.266 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% who I met in 2003 and continue to be my friends. 22:01.400 --> 22:04.400 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% Several of them went on to be published too. 22:04.533 --> 22:07.833 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% One of them is the first person who reads 22:07.966 --> 22:11.600 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% anything that I write. I have trusted her for 22:11.733 --> 22:13.833 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% I guess, you know, 15 years. 22:13.966 --> 22:17.066 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% And so she is - so, absolutely. 22:17.200 --> 22:20.800 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% If she says it's good, I kind of think it's good? 22:20.933 --> 22:23.133 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% I mean, I really am one of those writers 22:23.266 --> 22:25.766 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% who, no matter what my editor says, no matter what 22:25.900 --> 22:28.866 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% my critique partner says or other people, 22:29.000 --> 22:31.866 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% until the reviews start coming in from readers, 22:32.000 --> 22:34.700 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% it's never good until readers say it's good. 22:34.833 --> 22:37.266 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% But I have a great support system. 22:37.400 --> 22:39.233 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% I believe in networking with other authors. 22:39.366 --> 22:42.700 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% I believe in, like, building those relationships 22:42.833 --> 22:44.733 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:75% because being an author can be 22:44.866 --> 22:47.533 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% lonely, very solitary, and so there are times 22:47.666 --> 22:48.600 align:start position:30% line:84.67% size:40% when you're down 22:48.733 --> 22:50.300 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:22.5% and maybe your author friend is up, 22:50.433 --> 22:52.466 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% they have great news, or they're excited about something, 22:52.600 --> 22:56.766 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% and we sort of, keep each other's feet to the fire. 22:56.900 --> 22:58.766 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:32.5% I always say, our hands on the keyboard. 22:58.900 --> 23:00.566 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% Holly> I want to go back to one thing you mentioned, 23:00.700 --> 23:04.200 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% and that was the mental health and the connection of, 23:04.333 --> 23:06.100 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:22.5% you know, as having the Christian faith, 23:06.233 --> 23:07.266 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% a lot of times that's ignored - 23:07.400 --> 23:09.800 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% and you also mentioned the Black community. 23:09.933 --> 23:12.100 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:20% What has been the response from that? 23:12.233 --> 23:14.300 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% And were you nervous about going there? 23:14.433 --> 23:16.266 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:72.5% And did you get any backlash? 23:16.400 --> 23:17.500 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:17.5% Rhonda> I was nervous. 23:17.633 --> 23:19.766 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% Once I realized that I was supported 23:19.900 --> 23:21.900 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% at my publishing house, then I was no longer 23:22.033 --> 23:23.400 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% because I was hoping they were going to say, 23:23.533 --> 23:24.733 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:65% "Oh, we don't want so much 23:24.866 --> 23:26.933 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% of this in here," but they were wonderful. 23:27.066 --> 23:29.333 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% They wanted me to tell the story I wanted to tell. 23:29.466 --> 23:32.533 align:start position:37.5% line:79.33% size:27.5% And so then I was a little nervous, 23:32.666 --> 23:36.333 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% about readers, I think probably more Christian readers 23:36.466 --> 23:39.400 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% than my own Black community. 23:39.533 --> 23:42.366 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:50% But people have said they never thought of that 23:42.500 --> 23:44.166 align:start position:40% line:79.33% size:20% therapy, that that's how it would look. 23:44.300 --> 23:46.233 align:start position:10% line:84.67% size:80% They thought therapists analyzed 23:46.366 --> 23:48.066 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:32.5% you, told you what was wrong with you. 23:48.200 --> 23:50.900 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% Their impressions of what therapy 23:51.033 --> 23:53.900 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% could be changed based on the story. 23:54.033 --> 23:57.766 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% And I've had many, many people DM me 23:57.900 --> 24:00.966 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% on social media and say that they're thinking about therapy. 24:01.100 --> 24:02.800 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:35% They know that they need to forgive someone. 24:02.933 --> 24:05.300 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% They know that they are Mariah. 24:05.433 --> 24:09.433 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% They see themselves in the characters, and I love that. 24:09.566 --> 24:11.333 align:start position:22.5% line:84.67% size:57.5% I've had a lot of that. 24:11.466 --> 24:13.400 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% Holly> Kind of affirmation that you made the right choice? 24:13.533 --> 24:15.200 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% Rhonda> It was absolutely the right choice. 24:15.333 --> 24:18.266 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% And I felt that it was before the book came out. 24:18.400 --> 24:21.700 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% But then it was just like, well, we'll see, we'll see. 24:21.833 --> 24:23.566 align:start position:32.5% line:84.67% size:35% So, now I see. 24:23.700 --> 24:25.166 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:15% Holly> Love it. Alright. 24:25.300 --> 24:27.700 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% That does it for this show. It goes by so fast - 24:27.833 --> 24:29.300 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% Rhonda> It does! Holly> especially when we have 24:29.433 --> 24:31.166 align:start position:10% line:84.67% size:80% such an interesting conversation 24:31.300 --> 24:32.533 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:65% So I really appreciate it. 24:32.666 --> 24:34.233 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% It's been a joy to talk to you. 24:34.366 --> 24:36.833 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% So thank you for coming here for Books by the River. 24:36.966 --> 24:39.433 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% And thank you all for joining us here. 24:39.566 --> 24:41.466 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:62.5% We know you have a choice of where you land, 24:41.600 --> 24:44.033 align:start position:10% line:79.33% size:80% and so the fact that you're here with us really means a lot. 24:44.166 --> 24:47.333 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% We'll see you right here next time on Books by the River. 24:47.466 --> 24:49.566 align:start position:25% line:84.67% size:50% Rhonda> So I'm going 24:49.700 --> 24:52.600 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% to open up and read a little from the prologue of the book. 24:52.733 --> 24:56.833 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% And this is the voice of Grandma Gail Cooper-Holland 24:56.966 --> 25:00.100 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:65% the sun had been swallowed by the dark of dust 25:00.233 --> 25:02.466 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% by the time I parked behind the restaurant. 25:02.600 --> 25:05.000 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:55% I reached for my purse and stepped from the car. 25:05.133 --> 25:07.233 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% The keys jangled from my free hand as 25:07.366 --> 25:09.433 align:start position:17.5% line:84.67% size:65% I walked to the back door. 25:09.566 --> 25:13.300 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% Lingering citrus from the oil cleanser I'd used on the floor 25:13.433 --> 25:17.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% rose to my nostrils at the opening of the door. 25:17.200 --> 25:20.066 align:start position:22.5% line:84.67% size:57.5% I was never here alone. 25:20.200 --> 25:23.366 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45% I never considered I'd have to be here alone. 25:23.500 --> 25:25.533 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% Three weeks ago, the doctor had 25:25.666 --> 25:28.200 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:40% let my husband's condition slip from his mouth 25:28.333 --> 25:31.200 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60% as easily as raw oysters slipped from the shell. 25:31.333 --> 25:33.600 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% "Your husband has had a massive stroke. 25:33.733 --> 25:35.366 align:start position:15% line:84.67% size:70% He will need full time care. 25:35.500 --> 25:38.333 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% A skilled nursing facility is your best option." 25:38.466 --> 25:43.900 align:start position:22.5% line:79.33% size:57.5% And then Odell's words, "Gail, keep on a promise." 25:44.033 --> 25:53.900 align:start position:50% line:84.67% size:2.5% ♪ 25:54.033 --> 26:03.900 align:start position:50% line:84.67% size:2.5% ♪ 26:04.033 --> 26:13.933 align:start position:50% line:84.67% size:2.5% ♪ 26:14.066 --> 26:19.566 align:start position:50% line:84.67% size:2.5% ♪ 26:19.700 --> 26:21.233 align:start position:30% line:79.33% size:42.5% Major funding for Books by the River 26:21.366 --> 26:24.333 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% is brought to you by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina. 26:24.466 --> 26:27.766 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% For more than 40 years, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina 26:27.900 --> 26:30.000 align:start position:25% line:79.33% size:52.5% has been a partner of South Carolina ETV, 26:30.133 --> 26:32.666 align:start position:10% line:84.67% size:80% and South Carolina Public Radio. 26:32.800 --> 26:35.600 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% This program is supported by South Carolina Humanities, 26:35.733 --> 26:38.766 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:72.5% a not for profit organization inspiring, engaging, 26:38.900 --> 26:40.500 align:start position:12.5% line:84.67% size:77.5% and enriching South Carolinians 26:40.633 --> 26:44.300 align:start position:15% line:79.33% size:70% with programs on literature, history, culture, and heritage. 26:44.433 --> 26:47.566 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:75% SC Humanities receives funding from the National Endowment 26:47.700 --> 26:50.300 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:47.5% for the Humanities. Democracy demands wisdom. 26:50.433 --> 26:52.900 align:start position:12.5% line:79.33% size:77.5% Additional funding for Books by the River is provided by 26:53.033 --> 26:55.400 align:start position:32.5% line:79.33% size:37.5% Visit Beaufort, Port Royal and Sea Islands 26:55.533 --> 26:59.266 align:start position:17.5% line:79.33% size:67.5% and Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USC Beaufort. 26:59.400 --> 27:04.000 align:start position:50% line:68.67% size:2.5% ♪ 27:04.133 --> 27:07.900 align:start position:50% line:68.67% size:2.5% ♪