1 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:21,133 ♪ 2 00:00:21,133 --> 00:00:29,266 ♪ 3 00:00:29,266 --> 00:00:37,400 ♪ 4 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:45,533 ♪ 5 00:00:45,533 --> 00:00:53,666 ♪ 6 00:00:53,666 --> 00:00:55,666 Come ride with us 7 00:00:55,666 --> 00:00:59,066 for "A Literary Tour of South Carolina." 8 00:00:59,066 --> 00:01:06,766 ♪ 9 00:01:06,766 --> 00:01:07,766 (man) Whoops. 10 00:01:07,766 --> 00:01:16,300 ♪ 11 00:01:16,300 --> 00:01:24,833 ♪ 12 00:01:24,833 --> 00:01:33,400 ♪ 13 00:01:34,366 --> 00:01:38,066 (female speaker) I became passionate about comfortable entertaining 14 00:01:38,066 --> 00:01:44,000 because people need to know how to have people into their homes. 15 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,766 People are so afraid about entertaining 16 00:01:46,766 --> 00:01:50,933 and knowing what to fix and following the rules, 17 00:01:50,933 --> 00:01:54,633 and I just wanted to loosen that up. 18 00:01:54,633 --> 00:01:56,633 I love teaching cooking. 19 00:01:56,633 --> 00:02:00,333 What I find the most exciting about teaching, 20 00:02:00,333 --> 00:02:03,700 whether it was teaching in my restaurant 21 00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:05,833 or teaching at Rich's 22 00:02:05,833 --> 00:02:09,066 or when I go in a lecture, 23 00:02:09,066 --> 00:02:11,066 is the learning. 24 00:02:11,066 --> 00:02:14,766 Every time I teach something, I learn something. 25 00:02:14,766 --> 00:02:17,533 It's just the most amazing thing. 26 00:02:17,533 --> 00:02:19,533 It's just incredible. 27 00:02:19,533 --> 00:02:22,300 Every time you write a sentence, 28 00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:26,933 you see another thing that you didn't know you knew. 29 00:02:26,933 --> 00:02:29,233 Every time you teach someone, 30 00:02:29,233 --> 00:02:33,400 they're gonna make a mistake you never made before 31 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,466 or fix it in a way you didn't ever do before. 32 00:02:38,466 --> 00:02:40,466 Teaching is very exciting. 33 00:02:40,466 --> 00:02:43,233 People that love teaching are blessed 34 00:02:43,233 --> 00:02:47,833 because their lives are rich and just keep on going. 35 00:02:47,833 --> 00:02:50,833 You always learn from somebody else, 36 00:02:50,833 --> 00:02:53,833 a different attitude, a different life. 37 00:02:53,833 --> 00:02:58,900 But seeing people gain dominion over their own food 38 00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:01,466 is rewarding in itself. 39 00:03:01,466 --> 00:03:05,466 Everyone should have dominion over their own food. 40 00:03:05,466 --> 00:03:08,233 No matter who does the cooking, 41 00:03:08,233 --> 00:03:11,933 if you don't know what's in your food, 42 00:03:11,933 --> 00:03:15,633 you are not in charge of your life. 43 00:03:15,633 --> 00:03:17,633 Whether it's additives 44 00:03:17,633 --> 00:03:20,866 or your mother's generous hunk of butter, 45 00:03:20,866 --> 00:03:25,466 you've got to learn how to control your own food 46 00:03:25,466 --> 00:03:28,700 and know what's going in your body 47 00:03:28,700 --> 00:03:33,800 until the time you are willing to give it to someone. 48 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,966 It's a gift when you let someone fix food. 49 00:03:37,966 --> 00:03:40,266 You may think you're lazy 50 00:03:40,266 --> 00:03:43,966 and you're lucky having someone fix for you. 51 00:03:43,966 --> 00:03:47,933 Remember, you're giving control at the same time, 52 00:03:47,933 --> 00:03:51,933 so teaching for me is giving people control 53 00:03:51,933 --> 00:03:53,933 over their own life, 54 00:03:53,933 --> 00:03:57,633 letting them really take something they didn't know 55 00:03:57,633 --> 00:04:00,933 and make the world a better place. 56 00:04:00,933 --> 00:04:02,933 When I was young, 57 00:04:02,933 --> 00:04:06,633 I didn't have anything I was good at. 58 00:04:06,633 --> 00:04:08,633 To tell the truth, 59 00:04:08,633 --> 00:04:11,400 I was the world's worst secretary, 60 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,000 and I tried public relations. 61 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,400 I wasn't very accommodating to the clients. 62 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,700 I just wasn't any good at anything. 63 00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:23,933 I moved into an international student house 64 00:04:23,933 --> 00:04:27,600 in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and everybody had chores. 65 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,966 My chore was to forward the mail. 66 00:04:30,966 --> 00:04:35,133 I'm still not good at getting that letter folded 67 00:04:35,133 --> 00:04:37,900 and in the envelope and stamped. 68 00:04:37,900 --> 00:04:42,066 My thank-you notes are piled up in drawers. 69 00:04:42,066 --> 00:04:44,833 So there were two Mormon boys 70 00:04:44,833 --> 00:04:48,066 that lived in the international student house, 71 00:04:48,066 --> 00:04:52,233 and I didn't forward their draft notices to them. 72 00:04:52,233 --> 00:04:54,533 So when they came back, 73 00:04:54,533 --> 00:04:59,600 they had to show up for the Army the next day. 74 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,433 They were not happy with me, 75 00:05:02,433 --> 00:05:07,500 and I made equally bad mistakes in all my other jobs. 76 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:11,200 Oh, my, I worked for Mass General Hospital 77 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,200 doing record research. 78 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:18,266 I wasn't thorough in the sense that people wanted me to. 79 00:05:18,266 --> 00:05:21,500 I didn't have a big attention span, 80 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:24,266 so the cook got sick simultaneously, 81 00:05:24,266 --> 00:05:28,433 and when I was in the doghouse, they said, 82 00:05:28,433 --> 00:05:32,000 "You want to take over the cooking?" 83 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,166 We all paid $15 a month for dinner meals. 84 00:05:36,166 --> 00:05:41,700 And I thought I could because I used to watch the cook. 85 00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:45,700 So I started cooking, and I loved it. 86 00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:50,766 I made a lot of mistakes cooking for 18 of us, 87 00:05:50,766 --> 00:05:52,766 but I loved it. 88 00:05:52,766 --> 00:05:55,533 At the end of that time, 89 00:05:55,533 --> 00:06:00,133 I told my mother I wanted to be a cook. 90 00:06:00,133 --> 00:06:02,500 She said, "Ladies don't cook. 91 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:04,500 "You find a woman 92 00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:08,200 "that's actually got some prestige in a restaurant 93 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,366 "and is not just doing hamburgers on the grill 94 00:06:12,366 --> 00:06:16,066 and is not working at night with men." 95 00:06:16,066 --> 00:06:21,600 You weren't supposed to work at night with men in those days. 96 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,366 She said, "You find a woman 97 00:06:24,366 --> 00:06:28,066 "working in a prestigious position in a restaurant 98 00:06:28,066 --> 00:06:33,133 "that you could work up to and you could pursue it, 99 00:06:33,133 --> 00:06:38,200 "but I didn't bring you up to be a line cook 100 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,366 and work at night with men, lifting heavy pans." 101 00:06:42,366 --> 00:06:46,533 There was no woman in America at the time 102 00:06:46,533 --> 00:06:48,533 that I could find. 103 00:06:48,533 --> 00:06:51,300 I returned home, which was Virginia. 104 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:55,333 At different times I had hundreds of jobs. 105 00:06:55,333 --> 00:06:58,566 I would keep a job six months, 106 00:06:58,566 --> 00:07:02,333 and then I was on to something else. 107 00:07:02,333 --> 00:07:07,400 And so when I was nearly 30, I started to pray. 108 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,166 You don't have to say pray. 109 00:07:10,166 --> 00:07:14,333 You can say affirm... power of positive thinking, 110 00:07:14,333 --> 00:07:20,333 and I decided that every day I was going to claim the fact 111 00:07:20,333 --> 00:07:25,400 that I could find a job that made the world better, 112 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,400 support myself, 113 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,100 because at the time there was no law 114 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:35,966 protecting women from being paid less than men. 115 00:07:35,966 --> 00:07:40,566 If you were a woman, you made $50 a week, 116 00:07:40,566 --> 00:07:45,633 even if you were a single woman bringing up three children 117 00:07:45,633 --> 00:07:50,700 'cause white men got $100 so they could be saving money 118 00:07:50,700 --> 00:07:54,400 for the time that they had three children. 119 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,633 A job where I could support myself 120 00:07:57,633 --> 00:08:02,300 became important to me, and love what I was doing, 121 00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:05,533 be passionate about what I was doing. 122 00:08:05,533 --> 00:08:08,300 At the end of the year, 123 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:11,066 I met my favorite former husband, 124 00:08:11,066 --> 00:08:14,766 and we got married and moved to London. 125 00:08:14,766 --> 00:08:16,766 It was all miraculous, 126 00:08:16,766 --> 00:08:20,000 and when we got to London, England, 127 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,000 I couldn't work. 128 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,700 Here I'd been praying to find a job 129 00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:28,000 where I could earn money, 130 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,066 and I couldn't work because I didn't have the work visa. 131 00:08:33,066 --> 00:08:35,066 He did. 132 00:08:35,066 --> 00:08:37,366 What I did instead was, 133 00:08:37,366 --> 00:08:41,066 I was looking for a place to live 134 00:08:41,066 --> 00:08:43,366 and stumbled into a house. 135 00:08:43,366 --> 00:08:47,966 The other girl that was looking at the house said, 136 00:08:47,966 --> 00:08:51,833 "I am going to the Cordon Bleu tomorrow." 137 00:08:51,833 --> 00:08:55,066 I said, "What is the Cordon Bleu?" 138 00:08:55,066 --> 00:08:57,366 She said, "A cooking school." 139 00:08:57,366 --> 00:09:00,600 She didn't show up, but I did. 140 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,366 A year later, I got my advanced certificate. 141 00:09:04,366 --> 00:09:06,366 That was my answer. 142 00:09:06,366 --> 00:09:11,433 I found a job where I could make the world better, 143 00:09:11,433 --> 00:09:14,666 where I earned enough to support myself, 144 00:09:14,666 --> 00:09:18,366 and where I loved what I was doing. 145 00:09:18,366 --> 00:09:20,366 Everybody has that right. 146 00:09:20,366 --> 00:09:23,600 When I first started in this business 147 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,233 after I graduated from Cordon Bleu-- 148 00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:30,000 Julia Child came to my graduation. 149 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,233 She happened to be there that day, 150 00:09:33,233 --> 00:09:36,933 and I asked her, "What should I do?" 151 00:09:36,933 --> 00:09:39,700 She said, "Start a cooking school." 152 00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:42,933 She said, "Always learn from one person 153 00:09:42,933 --> 00:09:45,700 that knows more than you do." 154 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:48,933 When I returned to the United States, 155 00:09:48,933 --> 00:09:53,100 my favorite former husband and I started a restaurant, 156 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:55,866 and as soon as I could, 157 00:09:55,866 --> 00:09:58,866 I started teaching in the restaurant, 158 00:09:58,866 --> 00:10:01,566 and I always loved teaching. 159 00:10:01,566 --> 00:10:05,533 The idea of being a celebrity cook 160 00:10:05,533 --> 00:10:07,533 never occurred to me. 161 00:10:07,533 --> 00:10:10,900 I could not imagine myself 162 00:10:10,900 --> 00:10:12,900 going on television. 163 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:20,133 The first television show I did was in Georgia with... 164 00:10:20,133 --> 00:10:22,466 Governor Busbee's wife. 165 00:10:22,466 --> 00:10:24,466 They said to me, 166 00:10:24,466 --> 00:10:28,166 "Do not drain that spinach in that sink 167 00:10:28,166 --> 00:10:31,866 "because that sink does not have a bowl 168 00:10:31,866 --> 00:10:34,633 "and a pipe that goes anywhere. 169 00:10:34,633 --> 00:10:37,866 You pull the spinach out like this." 170 00:10:37,866 --> 00:10:40,633 I didn't have training in that. 171 00:10:40,633 --> 00:10:45,700 The first thing I did was pour spinach in the sink, 172 00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:48,000 and the liquid came out 173 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,366 onto Mrs. Busbee's beige suede shoes. 174 00:10:52,366 --> 00:10:57,000 That was enough television for me for a long time. 175 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,300 White Lily came to me 176 00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:03,533 and wanted to underwrite a program on public television. 177 00:11:03,533 --> 00:11:08,600 It took me six months to bring myself to the point 178 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,833 where I would consider going on television. 179 00:11:11,833 --> 00:11:15,066 I thought if you went on television, 180 00:11:15,066 --> 00:11:18,300 you had to be beautiful and glamorous. 181 00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:21,533 And cooking is a lot of things, 182 00:11:21,533 --> 00:11:26,600 but no matter what you see with the beautiful young women 183 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,233 now on television, 184 00:11:29,233 --> 00:11:33,100 you can get pretty messy when you're cooking. 185 00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:35,500 It's a pretty sloppy job. 186 00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:38,800 Being famous was never my goal. 187 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,300 I wanted enough money to support myself. 188 00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:46,633 I never had goals to be rich or famous, 189 00:11:46,633 --> 00:11:49,200 and so along the way, 190 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,700 I have achieved a modicum of fame 191 00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:55,500 that is satisfying to me, 192 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:59,666 but not so much that I would fight 193 00:11:59,666 --> 00:12:02,500 to stay in the public eye. 194 00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:05,166 I love lecturing. 195 00:12:05,166 --> 00:12:08,066 I love being on television, 196 00:12:08,066 --> 00:12:12,233 but fighting for it doesn't appeal to me. 197 00:12:12,233 --> 00:12:14,533 I can't figure out why. 198 00:12:14,533 --> 00:12:17,000 It just doesn't. 199 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:23,300 I did do...a hundred-and-some television shows 200 00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:25,300 for the Food Network. 201 00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:29,466 I was one of the first people on PBS. 202 00:12:29,466 --> 00:12:34,533 I followed Julia and Jeff Smith and some of the others. 203 00:12:34,533 --> 00:12:39,166 I was very fortunate I was there at the heyday, 204 00:12:39,166 --> 00:12:43,766 and I've had this wonderful life and this wonderful career. 205 00:12:43,766 --> 00:12:48,600 Being a cook now is still hard, dirty work, 206 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,266 and when you see chefs in the restaurant, 207 00:12:53,266 --> 00:12:56,933 there are some that are glamorous appearing, 208 00:12:56,933 --> 00:13:00,166 and maybe they have an endless supply 209 00:13:00,166 --> 00:13:03,933 of white, starched coats that they can change 210 00:13:03,933 --> 00:13:07,166 before going out in the dining room, 211 00:13:07,166 --> 00:13:10,400 but before they get to that point, 212 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,633 they are on their feet for years. 213 00:13:13,633 --> 00:13:15,633 It is hard work, 214 00:13:15,633 --> 00:13:20,233 and it's the exceptional chef that makes a big fortune, 215 00:13:20,233 --> 00:13:25,300 but if you are clever and you determine what you want, 216 00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:29,900 whether it's working during the day rather than at night, 217 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:32,200 being with your family, whatever, 218 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,366 you can shape the culinary needs of the community 219 00:13:36,366 --> 00:13:38,666 towards what you're best at. 220 00:13:38,666 --> 00:13:42,366 It might be doing breakfast or doing lunches, 221 00:13:42,366 --> 00:13:44,366 and in that sense, 222 00:13:44,366 --> 00:13:47,966 the culinary field is just wide open 223 00:13:47,966 --> 00:13:52,133 because there are so many, many, many people 224 00:13:52,133 --> 00:13:57,800 and so many jobs where people need help with their cooking. 225 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,033 Those jobs didn't exist when I started. 226 00:14:01,033 --> 00:14:05,700 There were just a handful of restaurants in each town. 227 00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:08,933 Heck, Southerners didn't go out to eat. 228 00:14:08,933 --> 00:14:12,633 They might go to a buffet on Sundays, 229 00:14:12,633 --> 00:14:16,333 but now the South is like everywhere else. 230 00:14:16,333 --> 00:14:20,933 People go out to eat, several times a week even. 231 00:14:20,933 --> 00:14:26,000 When you multiply that by all the people in the world, 232 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,766 that's a lot of eating out 233 00:14:28,766 --> 00:14:32,933 and a lot of work that can be done, 234 00:14:32,933 --> 00:14:36,166 but there's recipe testing, there's cookbook writing, 235 00:14:36,166 --> 00:14:39,866 and cookbook writing in some ways is easier 236 00:14:39,866 --> 00:14:43,100 because there are more people reading cookbooks, 237 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:45,400 but also, let's face it. 238 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,466 It is hard to compete against the big, big television stars. 239 00:14:50,466 --> 00:14:52,766 If you buy a cookbook, 240 00:14:52,766 --> 00:14:56,466 chances are you're gonna buy it from somebody 241 00:14:56,466 --> 00:15:00,166 that's been in your home week after week 242 00:15:00,166 --> 00:15:03,466 rather than some name you've never seen. 243 00:15:03,466 --> 00:15:08,066 The person that's been in your home week after week 244 00:15:08,066 --> 00:15:10,833 is on PBS-- my great love-- 245 00:15:10,833 --> 00:15:15,000 the Food Network, or one of the other stations. 246 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,766 You're liable to buy that more, 247 00:15:17,766 --> 00:15:22,366 so it's harder for people that don't have that entrée, 248 00:15:22,366 --> 00:15:24,800 but all things are possible. 249 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,300 Writing a cookbook is in some ways 250 00:15:28,300 --> 00:15:31,466 like writing a literary book, 251 00:15:31,466 --> 00:15:34,233 in some ways like writing nonfiction, 252 00:15:34,233 --> 00:15:37,466 and in some ways a scientific process. 253 00:15:37,466 --> 00:15:40,700 If you read older cookbooks, 254 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:44,866 you would think that there was no science involved 255 00:15:44,866 --> 00:15:46,866 because they just say, 256 00:15:46,866 --> 00:15:51,200 "Mix together three eggs in the usual way, 257 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,366 "dump in the flour, 258 00:15:53,366 --> 00:15:58,833 and put it in a greased pot and bake till done." 259 00:15:58,833 --> 00:16:03,066 And there's not a lot of science in that, 260 00:16:03,066 --> 00:16:06,300 but cookbooks have changed over the years. 261 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:09,066 Cookbooks have changed since my first. 262 00:16:09,066 --> 00:16:12,300 My first cookbook was a little pamphlet 263 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:14,300 called "Let's Entertain," 264 00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:18,900 and then the next one was another tiny little pamphlet 265 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:21,200 on Southern cooking, bigger pamphlet. 266 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,366 And then the first major hardback book I did 267 00:16:25,366 --> 00:16:27,666 was called "New Southern Cooking," 268 00:16:27,666 --> 00:16:35,100 and I still didn't know anything about really writing a recipe, 269 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:41,566 how to make it so that it was an easy flow for the reader, 270 00:16:41,566 --> 00:16:45,266 and over the years I have changed that. 271 00:16:45,266 --> 00:16:48,033 For instance, we test every recipe. 272 00:16:48,033 --> 00:16:51,266 I've always tested every recipe three times, 273 00:16:51,266 --> 00:16:54,033 but now we also make sure 274 00:16:54,033 --> 00:16:59,033 that we change all the active verbs in a recipe 275 00:16:59,033 --> 00:17:05,466 so that rather than saying, "Place the meat in the bowl," 276 00:17:05,466 --> 00:17:10,366 we might say, "Move the meat to a hot pan," 277 00:17:10,366 --> 00:17:14,333 so that it's something that stimulates people 278 00:17:14,333 --> 00:17:19,866 to get a picture of what the process is going to be. 279 00:17:19,866 --> 00:17:23,100 "Heat the pan," those kinds of things. 280 00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:26,100 Baking and pie crusts 281 00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:28,433 becomes very scientific 282 00:17:28,433 --> 00:17:34,433 and very important with cookbooks. 283 00:17:34,433 --> 00:17:40,233 Even further is the fact that no two flours are the same, 284 00:17:40,233 --> 00:17:43,000 and Southern flour is quite different 285 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,000 than Northern flour. 286 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,766 Southern flours have much less gluten 287 00:17:47,766 --> 00:17:51,000 than Northern flours that are primarily used 288 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,600 for bread baking, yeast-bread raising, 289 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,200 which wants a real tough flour to rise the bread. 290 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,433 Southern flours want something for cakes or for biscuits 291 00:18:02,433 --> 00:18:04,866 that are delicate and tender. 292 00:18:04,866 --> 00:18:09,033 It's apples and oranges when you talk about baking. 293 00:18:09,033 --> 00:18:12,733 Baking bread can be a little of this, 294 00:18:12,733 --> 00:18:14,733 a little of that. 295 00:18:14,733 --> 00:18:18,033 But cakes, every step makes a difference. 296 00:18:18,033 --> 00:18:20,933 The way I choose the recipes 297 00:18:20,933 --> 00:18:24,933 to put in a cookbook is very mixed. 298 00:18:24,933 --> 00:18:27,700 I might come to someone's house-- 299 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:31,733 your house-- and just enjoy the meal 300 00:18:31,733 --> 00:18:35,433 and feel that it's representative of home cooking 301 00:18:35,433 --> 00:18:40,066 and that there is a real technique to be taught, 302 00:18:40,066 --> 00:18:45,133 in that there's a message to be taught in that recipe, 303 00:18:45,133 --> 00:18:48,366 that it's something that people will do. 304 00:18:48,366 --> 00:18:52,966 I'll wheedle the recipe out of the person I'm visiting 305 00:18:52,966 --> 00:18:55,266 or make it up myself 306 00:18:55,266 --> 00:18:59,866 because I have a different tangent to go to. 307 00:18:59,866 --> 00:19:02,700 There are two kinds of permissions 308 00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:05,300 when writing a cookbook. 309 00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:09,000 One is when you use a recipe exactly, 310 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,300 and that, you pay for. 311 00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:14,533 You write the publisher and get permission, 312 00:19:14,533 --> 00:19:16,833 and then you credit it. 313 00:19:16,833 --> 00:19:21,000 That credit goes in the front of the book, 314 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,700 like, "This was reprinted from Mrs. Dull's cookbook 315 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:28,400 'Southern Cooking,'" and the year it was published. 316 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,633 Most of us do the second way, 317 00:19:31,633 --> 00:19:35,600 which is if someone gave us a recipe, 318 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,600 we want to acknowledge that person. 319 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,666 If I look at a cookbook when I'm writing a cookbook, 320 00:19:43,666 --> 00:19:47,366 I write the name of that book down 321 00:19:47,366 --> 00:19:49,366 for my bibliography. 322 00:19:49,366 --> 00:19:53,533 The back of my books always has a bibliography. 323 00:19:53,533 --> 00:19:57,166 "Shrimp & Grits" didn't have a bibliography. 324 00:19:57,166 --> 00:20:00,966 I also will write 325 00:20:00,966 --> 00:20:05,133 what we call a headnote to introduce the recipe. 326 00:20:05,133 --> 00:20:10,633 I might say, "I had this first at Joe Bob's house, 327 00:20:10,633 --> 00:20:15,700 "and then later I found it in 'The Joy of Cooking,' 328 00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:21,300 "but Joe Bob had added thyme and parsley, 329 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:25,966 and instead, I've added coriander seed," 330 00:20:25,966 --> 00:20:29,066 and then you give the recipe. 331 00:20:29,066 --> 00:20:32,300 A recipe cannot be copyrighted. 332 00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:36,000 The ingredients of a recipe cannot be copyrighted. 333 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,233 Let's say scrambled eggs is five eggs 334 00:20:39,233 --> 00:20:42,466 and a little salt and melted butter, 335 00:20:42,466 --> 00:20:45,233 maybe some whipping cream. 336 00:20:45,233 --> 00:20:50,266 They can't copyright that you have eggs, salt, and butter, 337 00:20:50,266 --> 00:20:55,933 but if you say, "Heat the butter in the pan, 338 00:20:55,933 --> 00:20:57,933 "whisk the eggs separately, 339 00:20:57,933 --> 00:21:01,366 pour into the pan, and stir," 340 00:21:01,366 --> 00:21:03,666 it's possible somebody could say 341 00:21:03,666 --> 00:21:08,266 you copied their recipe if it was written that way. 342 00:21:08,266 --> 00:21:11,033 What you might say instead is, 343 00:21:11,033 --> 00:21:14,266 rather than heat the butter, you say, 344 00:21:14,266 --> 00:21:17,533 "Melt the butter in a saucepan," 345 00:21:17,533 --> 00:21:20,200 rather than a frying pan. 346 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,533 "Meanwhile, beat the eggs vigorously separately, 347 00:21:24,533 --> 00:21:27,766 and stir eggs with a wooden spoon." 348 00:21:27,766 --> 00:21:30,066 You've got the same eggs, 349 00:21:30,066 --> 00:21:34,700 and you've got the same salt and the same butter, 350 00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:37,966 but you have completely rewritten that recipe. 351 00:21:37,966 --> 00:21:43,033 It is the sequential words in a sentence or several sentences 352 00:21:43,033 --> 00:21:47,933 that mean that you have stolen a recipe. 353 00:21:47,933 --> 00:21:50,966 However, there are some interesting cases 354 00:21:50,966 --> 00:21:55,766 of people that have used very famous recipes 355 00:21:55,766 --> 00:22:00,366 that were in the body of knowledge for so long 356 00:22:00,366 --> 00:22:04,133 that they became known as that person's recipe, 357 00:22:04,133 --> 00:22:06,433 like Joyce Chen's Lemon Chicken. 358 00:22:06,433 --> 00:22:10,133 If you wrote a book and used it, 359 00:22:10,133 --> 00:22:12,900 you would be smart to say, 360 00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:17,066 "This is my edition of Joyce Chen's Lemon Chicken," 361 00:22:17,066 --> 00:22:21,666 rather than trying to pretend you made up the recipe. 362 00:22:21,666 --> 00:22:23,966 Give credit when it's due. 363 00:22:23,966 --> 00:22:25,966 When you give credit, 364 00:22:25,966 --> 00:22:31,033 you've got one more person that wants to buy your book. 365 00:22:31,033 --> 00:22:36,100 If you don't, you might find yourself hanging on a rafter. 366 00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:38,100 You always give credit. 367 00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:40,466 My book "Shrimp & Grits," 368 00:22:40,466 --> 00:22:44,633 my friend Marion Sullivan and I wrote it together, 369 00:22:44,633 --> 00:22:47,700 and shrimp and grits is just-- 370 00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:51,000 every restaurant, when I moved to Charleston, 371 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,300 had different shrimp and grits. 372 00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:56,533 It became clear that shrimp and grits 373 00:22:56,533 --> 00:22:58,533 wasn't like fried chicken. 374 00:22:58,533 --> 00:23:02,766 With fried chicken you know the chicken was fried. 375 00:23:02,766 --> 00:23:04,766 With shrimp and grits, 376 00:23:04,766 --> 00:23:08,466 you do not know what you're gonna get. 377 00:23:08,466 --> 00:23:13,066 It can be...shrimp stuffed under the shell with kielbasa! 378 00:23:13,066 --> 00:23:19,066 Theming a book and knowing how to theme a book in this case 379 00:23:19,066 --> 00:23:23,666 was that I knew somebody had to start writing down 380 00:23:23,666 --> 00:23:26,433 these recipes for shrimp and grits 381 00:23:26,433 --> 00:23:29,666 before they went out in the universe. 382 00:23:29,666 --> 00:23:33,833 Of course, the original one was just using shrimp, 383 00:23:33,833 --> 00:23:36,900 cooked grits, and lots of butter. 384 00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,400 People love color picture books. 385 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,100 Pictures have become more prevalent in recent years 386 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:47,800 as the cost of photography has gone down. 387 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,866 The author frequently doesn't have control over pictures. 388 00:23:52,866 --> 00:23:55,166 The photographer takes the pictures. 389 00:23:55,166 --> 00:23:57,466 They go to the publishers, 390 00:23:57,466 --> 00:24:00,233 and the publisher chooses the picture. 391 00:24:00,233 --> 00:24:04,466 The publisher chooses to put them in the book 392 00:24:04,466 --> 00:24:06,766 in whatever arrangement they want. 393 00:24:06,766 --> 00:24:09,066 Unless you're a strong author, 394 00:24:09,066 --> 00:24:13,933 you usually don't get a lot of say-so about pictures. 395 00:24:13,933 --> 00:24:18,700 And the author, nine times out of ten, 396 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:22,366 pays for the photographer and the pictures, 397 00:24:22,366 --> 00:24:27,700 so the decision to put in the pictures 398 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:32,366 directly affects the bottom line of the author 399 00:24:32,366 --> 00:24:35,366 as well as the publisher. 400 00:24:35,366 --> 00:24:39,866 You decide to give $10,000 of your income away-- 401 00:24:39,866 --> 00:24:41,866 minimum, maybe-- 402 00:24:41,866 --> 00:24:45,633 when you're doing a color picture book. 403 00:24:45,633 --> 00:24:50,266 You have to say, I always wanted a picture book, 404 00:24:50,266 --> 00:24:53,500 but do I want it that much? 405 00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:57,666 It's a roll of the dice as to pictures, 406 00:24:57,666 --> 00:25:00,966 but authors have little control over pictures 407 00:25:00,966 --> 00:25:03,266 nine times out of ten. 408 00:25:03,266 --> 00:25:05,933 Well, Pat Conroy's cookbook 409 00:25:05,933 --> 00:25:08,433 has me as chapter 1, 410 00:25:08,433 --> 00:25:13,033 I guess because I was his first cooking school teacher. 411 00:25:13,033 --> 00:25:15,966 Pat Conroy is a novelist, 412 00:25:15,966 --> 00:25:20,600 and just as he did not get my permission 413 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,266 to embellish my stories-- 414 00:25:23,266 --> 00:25:25,933 and I adore Pat Conroy, 415 00:25:25,933 --> 00:25:31,466 but I do think I tell my stories better than he does-- 416 00:25:31,466 --> 00:25:35,466 but he didn't have to get my permission. 417 00:25:35,466 --> 00:25:39,633 And if you don't say something libelous about someone, 418 00:25:39,633 --> 00:25:42,800 as my husband says, 419 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,966 Pat Conroy's chapter about me was what we call 420 00:25:46,966 --> 00:25:48,966 an affectionate caricature. 421 00:25:48,966 --> 00:25:53,800 In this case, the nose was a little long, 422 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:59,800 like Pinocchio's, was a little embellished, 423 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,400 but he's such a beautiful, lyrical writer 424 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,733 that who wouldn't mind being written about. 425 00:26:06,733 --> 00:26:11,733 I did have an old boyfriend I wrote about. 426 00:26:11,733 --> 00:26:17,266 He didn't much like it, but I didn't call him by name. 427 00:26:17,266 --> 00:26:21,433 If somebody can figure out who it's writing about 428 00:26:21,433 --> 00:26:23,733 because you write a story 429 00:26:23,733 --> 00:26:26,966 about the time you went to dinner 430 00:26:26,966 --> 00:26:29,266 and he ordered for you-- 431 00:26:29,266 --> 00:26:32,033 remember, food is a control issue-- 432 00:26:32,033 --> 00:26:35,733 before you got there, so you got duck. 433 00:26:35,733 --> 00:26:38,033 You cut into the duck, 434 00:26:38,033 --> 00:26:42,200 it shot off the plate and down his shirt, 435 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,200 and he stalked off. 436 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,366 You rode all the way back for an hour 437 00:26:48,366 --> 00:26:52,066 because he thought you did it on purpose. 438 00:26:52,066 --> 00:26:55,300 You don't have to ask any permission 439 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:58,533 because nobody's gonna know it but him 440 00:26:58,533 --> 00:27:00,900 unless he's told everybody else. 441 00:27:00,900 --> 00:27:04,600 If he sees the fool in this story, 442 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,266 that's his problem. 443 00:27:06,266 --> 00:27:09,033 You don't have to have permission 444 00:27:09,033 --> 00:27:11,800 if you don't name a person 445 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,500 or describe the situation and person so clearly 446 00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:19,200 that you put yourself into a libelous situation. 447 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,500 Some people are even concerned 448 00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:25,433 about writing about their former husbands or parents. 449 00:27:25,433 --> 00:27:29,133 They feel they have to get the permission, 450 00:27:29,133 --> 00:27:32,366 so sometimes they'll wait till they're dead 451 00:27:32,366 --> 00:27:34,666 before they write about them. 452 00:27:34,666 --> 00:27:37,900 Other people reach some accommodation with them, 453 00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:42,533 but check with your lawyer if you're really concerned, 454 00:27:42,533 --> 00:27:46,233 if you have got something big to say. 455 00:27:46,233 --> 00:27:51,766 It is harder to prove liable than people think it will be. 456 00:27:51,766 --> 00:27:55,100 Oh, it's terribly important. 457 00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:58,800 Sometimes you might just read cookbooks for months 458 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,033 before you get around to writing your first recipe. 459 00:28:03,033 --> 00:28:06,733 Right now we're testing recipes for pound cake 460 00:28:06,733 --> 00:28:09,500 because I'm doing a book called 461 00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:12,266 "Mastering the Art of Southern Cooking." 462 00:28:12,266 --> 00:28:14,266 I'll be darned if, 463 00:28:14,266 --> 00:28:17,500 when I looked back at Southern cookbooks, 464 00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:20,733 they didn't have the real pound cake, 465 00:28:20,733 --> 00:28:24,433 which is a pound of flour, butter, sugar. 466 00:28:24,433 --> 00:28:29,033 I thought, Why is that that they're not using it? 467 00:28:29,033 --> 00:28:32,733 We had to start with the basic one. 468 00:28:32,733 --> 00:28:36,900 It's too sweet, so all the derivations start there. 469 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:39,366 Do you add baking soda? 470 00:28:39,366 --> 00:28:41,666 They didn't make baking soda 471 00:28:41,666 --> 00:28:44,900 till the end of the 18th century, 472 00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:49,500 so when did baking soda wind its way in there? 473 00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:51,800 Somebody wanted a lighter cake. 474 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,566 You keep seeing all the derivation-- 475 00:28:54,566 --> 00:28:58,733 brown sugar pound cake-- and it goes from there, 476 00:28:58,733 --> 00:29:01,100 but start at the beginning. 477 00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:04,100 There are things you shouldn't do 478 00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:06,766 in writing a cookbook. 479 00:29:06,766 --> 00:29:10,766 You shouldn't steal other people's ideas. 480 00:29:10,766 --> 00:29:15,766 It always backfires, among other reasons. 481 00:29:15,766 --> 00:29:18,833 You should always give people credit. 482 00:29:18,833 --> 00:29:23,433 You shouldn't just write the recipe and not test it. 483 00:29:23,433 --> 00:29:27,133 You have to test it after it's written 484 00:29:27,133 --> 00:29:30,833 because it's easy to leave out one ingredient. 485 00:29:30,833 --> 00:29:34,533 Anyone that has written down their mother's recipe 486 00:29:34,533 --> 00:29:37,300 and gone back 30 years later 487 00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:40,533 will wonder why they left out potatoes 488 00:29:40,533 --> 00:29:42,533 in the potato casserole. 489 00:29:42,533 --> 00:29:45,766 It's real easy to leave something out, 490 00:29:45,766 --> 00:29:48,066 so you have to proofread, 491 00:29:48,066 --> 00:29:53,600 and the best way is to cook it again from that recipe. 492 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,300 You shouldn't just think you've got it. 493 00:29:57,300 --> 00:29:59,600 What you should do is, 494 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,733 determine who you want to buy this book. 495 00:30:03,733 --> 00:30:08,800 Do you want a little lady that drives by antique stores 496 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,500 and wants a book with an old-time cover 497 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:14,500 and a spiral back 498 00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:17,266 and is looking for familiar things, 499 00:30:17,266 --> 00:30:22,066 or do you want someone who wants a gussied-up book 500 00:30:22,066 --> 00:30:24,833 that has elaborate cakes in it? 501 00:30:24,833 --> 00:30:28,066 Who is the person you're thinking about 502 00:30:28,066 --> 00:30:30,366 when you write this book? 503 00:30:30,366 --> 00:30:32,366 You shouldn't confuse it. 504 00:30:32,366 --> 00:30:35,366 If you're writing for the lady 505 00:30:35,366 --> 00:30:40,100 that's gonna buy the book and publish her own book 506 00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:45,433 and make a lot of money 'cause she knows her market, 507 00:30:45,433 --> 00:30:48,433 you're gonna write a different recipe 508 00:30:48,433 --> 00:30:52,600 than the one that does the cakes. 509 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,600 A chef has the hardest time writing a recipe 510 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:03,666 because a chef uses a lot of difficult words for people, 511 00:31:03,666 --> 00:31:05,400 like, um... 512 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,166 lard the beef. 513 00:31:10,166 --> 00:31:13,400 Unless you know that larding the beef 514 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,933 means putting a strip of fat in a needle that clamps it 515 00:31:18,933 --> 00:31:21,233 and then pulling it through-- 516 00:31:21,233 --> 00:31:22,900 or barding it-- 517 00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:26,600 you are not going to buy that book, 518 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,766 so making it user-friendly to the people that want it. 519 00:31:31,766 --> 00:31:34,266 By the same token, 520 00:31:34,266 --> 00:31:37,500 a chef probably doesn't buy a book 521 00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:43,433 that calls for... half a teaspoon of mace 522 00:31:43,433 --> 00:31:49,600 because he's probably thinking a teaspoon in feeding 30 people. 523 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,466 He might buy it to read, 524 00:31:52,466 --> 00:31:55,466 but not necessarily to cook from. 525 00:31:55,466 --> 00:31:58,966 So knowing your market is very important, 526 00:31:58,966 --> 00:32:03,200 knowing who you feel passionate about teaching 527 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,500 is more important than anything. 528 00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:07,800 Once you love that person 529 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,566 and see them in your mind, 530 00:32:10,566 --> 00:32:15,633 then you are going to do the right thing for them. 531 00:32:15,633 --> 00:32:18,866 It's gonna get rid of the should-nots 532 00:32:18,866 --> 00:32:20,866 that would come up. 533 00:32:20,866 --> 00:32:24,100 Look at the style of different cookbooks. 534 00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:26,400 See what style you want 535 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,400 in your writing and in your recipe presentation. 536 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,400 Those are important things. 537 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:38,433 ♪ Captioned by: CompuScripts Captioning, Inc. www.compuscriptsinc.com