1 00:00:21,833 --> 00:00:23,600 >> Breaking news after reports of a shooting. 2 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,866 >> Multiple people ruthlessly gunned down. 3 00:00:25,866 --> 00:00:29,533 >> Police have also discovered a lengthy manifesto. 4 00:00:29,533 --> 00:00:32,566 >> NARRATOR: In collaboration with ProPublica, reporters 5 00:00:32,566 --> 00:00:35,333 A.C. Thompson and James Bandler investigate 6 00:00:35,333 --> 00:00:38,333 the global rise of a dangerous movement. 7 00:00:38,333 --> 00:00:43,033 >> This is a very militant, aggressive, dangerous community. 8 00:00:43,033 --> 00:00:47,200 >> The story that we unraveled was frankly very disturbing. 9 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,666 >> What’s interesting about this collective 10 00:00:48,666 --> 00:00:52,233 is how transnational it is. 11 00:00:52,233 --> 00:00:54,666 >> NARRATOR: How they radicalized online. 12 00:00:54,666 --> 00:00:56,033 >> He was a very active user 13 00:00:56,033 --> 00:00:57,133 >> of all these channels. >> Wow. 14 00:00:57,133 --> 00:00:58,566 >> NARRATOR: And promoted violence. 15 00:00:58,566 --> 00:01:01,766 >> Here was someone that they had successfully indoctrinated 16 00:01:01,766 --> 00:01:04,833 and encouraged to kill, and he’d gone out and done it. 17 00:01:04,833 --> 00:01:08,466 >> NARRATOR: Now on FRONTLINE, The Rise and Fall of Terrorgram. 18 00:01:09,566 --> 00:01:11,033 >> You have to ask a question. 19 00:01:11,033 --> 00:01:14,333 What have we reaped as a result of this? 20 00:01:14,333 --> 00:01:18,466 What new whirlwind are we throwing ourselves into? 21 00:01:48,133 --> 00:01:52,600 ♪ ♪ 22 00:01:58,266 --> 00:02:01,733 >> A.C. THOMPSON: Old Town in Bratislava, Slovakia. 23 00:02:05,866 --> 00:02:08,566 I was here to investigate a deadly attack 24 00:02:08,566 --> 00:02:11,933 that had terrorized this Central European city. 25 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,400 It happened on the evening of October 12, 2022. 26 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,466 That night, on Zámocká Street, 27 00:02:21,466 --> 00:02:23,000 three friends sat talking outside a 28 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,033 gay bar they frequented. 29 00:02:25,033 --> 00:02:29,633 >> (speaking Slovak): 30 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,666 >> THOMPSON: Radka Trok iarová was catching up 31 00:02:39,666 --> 00:02:42,900 with her friends Matú and Juraj. 32 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:46,466 >> TROK IAROVÁ: 33 00:03:02,566 --> 00:03:04,200 >> THOMPSON: Radka saw another person 34 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,700 standing in the shadows, not far from the bar. 35 00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:09,266 >> TROK IAROVÁ: 36 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:24,666 >> THOMPSON: His name was Juraj Kraj ík. 37 00:03:24,666 --> 00:03:26,733 He was 19 years old. 38 00:03:26,733 --> 00:03:29,000 >> He was an intelligent student. 39 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,033 He was very good in English. 40 00:03:32,033 --> 00:03:34,266 He was usually alone. 41 00:03:34,266 --> 00:03:36,466 It was not suspicious to anybody at that time. 42 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:39,866 >> THOMPSON: But earlier that day, 43 00:03:39,866 --> 00:03:42,766 Kraj ík had posted a hate-filled manifesto online, 44 00:03:42,766 --> 00:03:46,666 full of false narratives and racist conspiracy theories. 45 00:03:46,666 --> 00:03:49,866 He wrote that white people were facing "a critical situation," 46 00:03:49,866 --> 00:03:52,666 and that Jews and gay people should be eliminated. 47 00:03:54,566 --> 00:03:56,666 >> TROK IAROVÁ: 48 00:03:59,033 --> 00:04:00,833 >> THOMPSON: Kraj ík pulled out a gun 49 00:04:00,833 --> 00:04:03,666 and aimed directly at the three friends. 50 00:04:03,666 --> 00:04:06,633 ♪ ♪ 51 00:04:06,633 --> 00:04:11,600 >> TROK IAROVÁ: 52 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,366 >> THOMPSON: Kraj ík fired twic more into the bodies 53 00:04:36,366 --> 00:04:37,500 on the ground. 54 00:04:38,666 --> 00:04:40,466 Then he fled into the night. 55 00:04:40,666 --> 00:04:45,133 >> (speaking Slovak): 56 00:04:45,133 --> 00:04:47,833 >> WOMAN: 57 00:04:47,833 --> 00:04:50,300 >> LIPSIC: 58 00:04:55,733 --> 00:04:57,500 We did not know what the motive was. 59 00:04:57,500 --> 00:05:00,400 We knew it was a murder in cold blood. 60 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,333 But of course, we didn't have the shooter, who was at large, 61 00:05:03,333 --> 00:05:05,966 moving around the large center of Bratislava. 62 00:05:07,066 --> 00:05:10,666 >> (speaking Slovak): 63 00:05:10,666 --> 00:05:12,000 >> THOMPSON: Slovak officials believed 64 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,733 no one else was involved in the shooting-- 65 00:05:14,733 --> 00:05:17,400 that Kraj ík was a so-called lone wolf. 66 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,200 But his manifesto contained clues 67 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,500 that, in fact, he'd been radicalized 68 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:26,166 by a global community of online extremists 69 00:05:26,166 --> 00:05:28,733 to commit an act of 21st-century terror. 70 00:05:29,833 --> 00:05:33,033 The Bratislava attack is important because 71 00:05:33,033 --> 00:05:36,133 it's a pure example of how influencers today 72 00:05:36,133 --> 00:05:39,666 can encourage and inspire other people to go out 73 00:05:39,666 --> 00:05:41,533 and commit acts of terrorism. 74 00:05:41,533 --> 00:05:46,200 It explains and shows how terrorism works today. 75 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,033 ♪ ♪ 76 00:05:49,033 --> 00:05:50,533 For the past year, 77 00:05:50,533 --> 00:05:52,866 I've been reporting on the dark corners of the internet 78 00:05:52,866 --> 00:05:54,733 and social media that have given rise 79 00:05:54,733 --> 00:05:57,466 to a series of deadly far-right terror attacks. 80 00:05:57,466 --> 00:06:01,200 >> The ecosystem is designed such that anyone can pop off 81 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,400 and create a very high-impact, 82 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,466 damaging attack on society at the drop of a hat. 83 00:06:06,466 --> 00:06:08,600 >> THOMPSON: With a team of reporters from "Frontline" 84 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,100 and ProPublica, my colleague James Bandler and I 85 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:13,100 have been investigating the anonymous 86 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:16,966 and loosely moderated platforms where extremists have been able 87 00:06:16,966 --> 00:06:18,666 to share propaganda 88 00:06:18,666 --> 00:06:21,200 and terrorist instructional material... 89 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:22,566 >> It was allowing for, 90 00:06:22,566 --> 00:06:25,633 really, kind of unfiltered and unregulated 91 00:06:25,633 --> 00:06:27,800 hate and extremism to kind of run rampant. 92 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,500 >> THOMPSON: ...and the transnational terrorist network 93 00:06:30,500 --> 00:06:32,266 behind the Bratislava attack, 94 00:06:32,266 --> 00:06:34,666 known as the "Terrorgram Collective." 95 00:06:34,666 --> 00:06:37,966 >> BANDLER: These people on the messaging 96 00:06:37,966 --> 00:06:40,033 and social media app Telegram 97 00:06:40,033 --> 00:06:42,500 were trying to stir other people 98 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:46,000 to commit acts of incredible violence 99 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,066 and to spark a race war, which they hoped would lead 100 00:06:50,066 --> 00:06:53,033 to a white ethno-state rising from the ashes. 101 00:06:59,933 --> 00:07:04,633 >> (chanting): You will not replace us! 102 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:09,400 (chant continues) 103 00:07:12,966 --> 00:07:16,466 (chant continues) 104 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,433 >> THOMPSON: I've been documenting 105 00:07:20,433 --> 00:07:21,433 hate groups in America 106 00:07:21,433 --> 00:07:22,933 for "Frontline" and ProPublica 107 00:07:22,933 --> 00:07:24,766 for almost a decade. 108 00:07:24,766 --> 00:07:27,266 Back in August 2017, 109 00:07:27,266 --> 00:07:29,466 I was in Charlottesville, Virginia, 110 00:07:29,466 --> 00:07:30,633 when white supremacists made 111 00:07:30,633 --> 00:07:32,833 their biggest public show of force in years. 112 00:07:32,833 --> 00:07:34,000 >> White Lives Matter! 113 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,000 White Lives Matter! 114 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,700 >> White Lives Matter! 115 00:07:36,700 --> 00:07:40,300 >> THOMPSON: It was incredibly chaotic and disturbing. 116 00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:44,966 >> (chanting): Nazi scum off our streets! 117 00:07:44,966 --> 00:07:46,300 >> THOMPSON: The rally descended 118 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:48,466 into racist, anti-Semitic violence. 119 00:07:48,466 --> 00:07:53,866 (people yelling, crying out) 120 00:07:55,066 --> 00:07:57,866 (people screaming) 121 00:08:00,533 --> 00:08:02,733 A young counter-protester was murdered. 122 00:08:05,033 --> 00:08:07,266 Far-right extremists were arrested, 123 00:08:07,266 --> 00:08:10,800 criminally prosecuted, and sued in civil courts. 124 00:08:12,133 --> 00:08:13,400 >> We are here today 125 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,233 to announce the arrests of four members 126 00:08:16,233 --> 00:08:18,733 of the militant white supremacist group... 127 00:08:18,733 --> 00:08:21,966 >> THOMPSON: For the movement, Charlottesville was pivotal. 128 00:08:24,066 --> 00:08:25,833 One of the things that happened 129 00:08:25,833 --> 00:08:28,166 is, the movement kind of splintered. 130 00:08:28,166 --> 00:08:29,900 And so there was a faction of the movement that said, 131 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:31,666 "We're going underground. 132 00:08:31,666 --> 00:08:33,166 "We are not going to meet in person anymore. 133 00:08:33,166 --> 00:08:35,800 "We're going to engage in terrorism, 134 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,533 "and we're going to communicate with each other 135 00:08:37,533 --> 00:08:40,300 "through these online platforms. 136 00:08:40,300 --> 00:08:43,333 "We can win a secret, clandestine battle 137 00:08:43,333 --> 00:08:46,300 and we can try to bring down the government." 138 00:08:49,566 --> 00:08:52,400 In online chats I was monitoring at the time, 139 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,466 extremists were increasingly promoting a violent ideology 140 00:08:56,466 --> 00:08:59,500 called militant accelerationism. 141 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:01,966 >> Militant accelerationism 142 00:09:01,966 --> 00:09:03,966 is a terroristic ideology 143 00:09:03,966 --> 00:09:06,200 that is rooted in notions of white supremacy 144 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,266 that looks to collapse the societal order 145 00:09:08,266 --> 00:09:10,233 and encourage race riots 146 00:09:10,233 --> 00:09:12,000 across Western countries, in particular. 147 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,133 >> THOMPSON: Milo Comerford is an extremism expert. 148 00:09:16,133 --> 00:09:18,233 >> This is really about encouraging violence, 149 00:09:18,233 --> 00:09:20,500 polarization, and racial animus 150 00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:23,466 that can lead to a war and a conflict 151 00:09:23,466 --> 00:09:25,966 that can be used as the basis for forming a white ethno-state. 152 00:09:25,966 --> 00:09:29,433 ♪ ♪ 153 00:09:29,433 --> 00:09:32,800 >> THOMPSON: In 2019, this growing accelerationist movement 154 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,433 would be galvanized by a horrific terrorist attack 155 00:09:36,433 --> 00:09:38,566 on the other side of the world. 156 00:09:38,566 --> 00:09:40,533 >> ♪ Allahu akbar ♪ 157 00:09:40,533 --> 00:09:43,400 ♪ Allahu akbar ♪ 158 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,200 ♪ Allahu akbar ♪ 159 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,100 >> THOMPSON: What happened in Christchurch, New Zealand, 160 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:52,000 would provide a grim template: 161 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,966 leaderless, decentralized terrorism 162 00:09:54,966 --> 00:09:57,966 performed for an online audience. 163 00:09:57,966 --> 00:10:02,633 >> (continues Arabic chant) 164 00:10:02,633 --> 00:10:06,000 >> THOMPSON: Friday prayers, the Al Noor Mosque in Christchurch, 165 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,333 a hub for practicing Muslims on New Zealand's South Island. 166 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:13,466 >> March 15. 167 00:10:13,466 --> 00:10:15,533 It was beautiful sunny day. 168 00:10:15,533 --> 00:10:16,766 >> (talking in background) 169 00:10:16,766 --> 00:10:20,266 >> I go Al Noor Mosque for my worshiping. 170 00:10:23,566 --> 00:10:27,800 And that is my regular mosque to go to every Friday. 171 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,900 >> (speaking Arabic) 172 00:10:37,733 --> 00:10:40,900 >> Imam started the speech, 173 00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:43,900 when I hear the big bang sounds. 174 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:49,733 ♪ ♪ 175 00:10:52,466 --> 00:10:56,033 And then I see someone with the helmets and vest. 176 00:10:56,033 --> 00:10:59,100 He's prepared other weapon. 177 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:07,233 And I see myself front of, you know, that weapon. 178 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,333 And then I see the smokes come out 179 00:11:11,333 --> 00:11:15,566 and then I feel the bullets in my mouth. 180 00:11:18,433 --> 00:11:22,233 He start walking towards us... 181 00:11:24,433 --> 00:11:27,466 ...and serial shooting, pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop, 182 00:11:27,466 --> 00:11:29,466 sounds like that. 183 00:11:30,666 --> 00:11:33,766 I see, like, he, he's enjoying. 184 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,133 You know, it's like a video game. 185 00:11:44,133 --> 00:11:47,300 He's just focused what he is doing. 186 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:55,766 While I'm seeing the bullets entering my legs, 187 00:11:55,766 --> 00:11:57,233 I said, "Oh. 188 00:11:57,233 --> 00:11:59,033 "I think this is how you're feeling 189 00:11:59,033 --> 00:12:01,233 when you get shot." 190 00:12:01,233 --> 00:12:04,366 Bang, bang, you know. 191 00:12:04,366 --> 00:12:06,566 Just... 192 00:12:06,566 --> 00:12:08,500 (breathes deeply) 193 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,266 It seems like never stop. 194 00:12:15,900 --> 00:12:17,233 >> All suddenly, 195 00:12:17,233 --> 00:12:19,733 he left. 196 00:12:19,733 --> 00:12:21,566 The mosque is full of smoke. 197 00:12:23,633 --> 00:12:25,666 It went very quiet. 198 00:12:26,933 --> 00:12:29,266 I heard somebody by the door saying, 199 00:12:29,266 --> 00:12:31,066 "Imam, I know you are there! 200 00:12:31,066 --> 00:12:32,700 "Come out! 201 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:34,700 The police is here." 202 00:12:37,966 --> 00:12:40,466 He pulled my hands. 203 00:12:40,466 --> 00:12:43,500 I wish that he had covered, he had covered my eyes. 204 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:47,100 Because I saw here, in that corner, 205 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:49,800 three meters long, this side, and high, 206 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,000 people on top of each other and bleeding. 207 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,633 And on that corner by that door, 208 00:12:56,633 --> 00:12:59,500 I saw people over there. 209 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:03,866 That is the real massacre I have seen in my life now. 210 00:13:10,566 --> 00:13:11,866 >> We're interrupting normal programming 211 00:13:11,866 --> 00:13:13,233 with some breaking news, 212 00:13:13,233 --> 00:13:15,033 after reports of a shooting in central Christchurch. 213 00:13:15,033 --> 00:13:17,800 (sirens blaring) 214 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:22,266 >> THOMPSON: 44 people were killed in the attack 215 00:13:22,266 --> 00:13:23,833 at the Al Noor Mosque. 216 00:13:25,566 --> 00:13:27,500 Dozens were injured. 217 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:31,100 At a second mosque, seven more were shot dead. 218 00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:35,033 >> Police arrested 28-year-old Australian Brenton Tarrant. 219 00:13:35,033 --> 00:13:36,500 >> THOMPSON: The gunman eventually pleaded 220 00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:39,000 guilty to the murder of 51 people 221 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,433 and the attempted murder of another 40. 222 00:13:42,933 --> 00:13:45,666 He was given multiple life sentences. 223 00:13:48,166 --> 00:13:49,833 In the aftermath of the attacks, 224 00:13:49,833 --> 00:13:53,233 a government inquiry, known as the Royal Commission, 225 00:13:53,233 --> 00:13:56,600 concluded that he was a "lone actor." 226 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,033 But recently published research from the University of Auckland 227 00:14:01,033 --> 00:14:04,233 found that Brenton Tarrant had been part of a global community 228 00:14:04,233 --> 00:14:07,033 of online extremists for many years. 229 00:14:07,033 --> 00:14:10,400 >> We've got five years of him speaking candidly online, 230 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,133 so being able to understand what drove him, 231 00:14:13,133 --> 00:14:14,766 being able to see him speaking with, you know, 232 00:14:14,766 --> 00:14:16,333 completely unguardedly, in an, 233 00:14:16,333 --> 00:14:19,066 in this environment where he, he kind of felt safe. 234 00:14:19,066 --> 00:14:20,900 >> THOMPSON: Researchers Chris Wilson 235 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:22,900 and Michal Dziwulski uncovered 236 00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:25,233 more than 400 posts they linked to Tarrant, 237 00:14:25,233 --> 00:14:27,666 including threats against Muslims, 238 00:14:27,666 --> 00:14:32,133 all scraped from the online platform 4chan. 239 00:14:32,133 --> 00:14:33,866 >> So this is 4chan, 240 00:14:33,866 --> 00:14:35,666 a simple image-based bulletin board 241 00:14:35,666 --> 00:14:37,800 where anyone can post comments and share images. 242 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,233 There's a whole bunch of different boards 243 00:14:41,233 --> 00:14:44,533 that have got different types of themes. 244 00:14:44,533 --> 00:14:46,533 The most famous far-right one 245 00:14:46,533 --> 00:14:48,266 is the Politically Incorrect board, 246 00:14:48,266 --> 00:14:49,900 which we found Tarrant on. 247 00:14:51,533 --> 00:14:52,933 >> THOMPSON: Politically Incorrect 248 00:14:52,933 --> 00:14:55,300 was known as the "/pol/" board, for short-- 249 00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:58,466 a home for people with extremist opinions. 250 00:14:58,466 --> 00:15:00,933 As with all 4chan boards, 251 00:15:00,933 --> 00:15:02,833 every post is anonymous. 252 00:15:02,833 --> 00:15:04,333 >> This isn't just showing 253 00:15:04,333 --> 00:15:05,800 how thorough we've been with 254 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,566 our multi-factor authentication... 255 00:15:07,566 --> 00:15:10,066 >> THOMPSON: They linked the posts to Tarrant by scouring 256 00:15:10,066 --> 00:15:12,300 his known online history, 257 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:15,033 cross-referencing thousands of posts, 258 00:15:15,033 --> 00:15:17,800 a digital trail of old usernames, 259 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,666 spelling quirks, 260 00:15:19,666 --> 00:15:20,966 and odd word usages. 261 00:15:22,333 --> 00:15:25,766 >> This email address that he used in 2013 262 00:15:25,766 --> 00:15:27,700 is the same address 263 00:15:27,700 --> 00:15:30,266 that he used right before his attack. 264 00:15:30,266 --> 00:15:32,833 >> THOMPSON: The researchers compared these posts 265 00:15:32,833 --> 00:15:34,800 to an account of Tarrant's travels 266 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,866 compiled by the Royal Commission, 267 00:15:36,866 --> 00:15:38,633 which uncovered that he had traveled 268 00:15:38,633 --> 00:15:40,600 to more than 50 countries in the five years 269 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,533 before the attack, 270 00:15:42,533 --> 00:15:44,433 apparently alone. 271 00:15:44,433 --> 00:15:46,333 They matched Tarrant's itinerary 272 00:15:46,333 --> 00:15:48,833 to posts on the /pol/ board. 273 00:15:48,833 --> 00:15:52,066 >> The flags on Politically Incorrect were 274 00:15:52,066 --> 00:15:55,700 a feature that was added to, I guess, promote nationalism. 275 00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:57,966 When he's in these different countries, 276 00:15:57,966 --> 00:16:00,133 we can see that the I.P. address 277 00:16:00,133 --> 00:16:02,633 comes up with those flags. 278 00:16:02,633 --> 00:16:06,666 >> THOMPSON: And so the flags and the geography line up 279 00:16:06,666 --> 00:16:08,500 with the dates that the Royal Commission 280 00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:09,966 said he was in these places. 281 00:16:09,966 --> 00:16:11,200 >> That's right. 282 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:12,800 So all of the posts that we're showing, 283 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,133 they correspond to the countries 284 00:16:14,133 --> 00:16:15,700 that he was visiting at the time. 285 00:16:17,266 --> 00:16:19,566 >> THOMPSON: As he traveled, Tarrant stayed in touch 286 00:16:19,566 --> 00:16:21,633 with the /pol/ community on 4chan, 287 00:16:21,633 --> 00:16:25,566 which was increasingly becoming an echo chamber of hate. 288 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,333 >> The history of 4chan 289 00:16:30,333 --> 00:16:32,233 is an interesting one in that 290 00:16:32,233 --> 00:16:34,133 it developed initially 291 00:16:34,133 --> 00:16:36,900 and very popular within kind of anime culture. 292 00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:39,200 >> THOMPSON: Pete Simi is a sociologist 293 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,133 who studies violent extremists 294 00:16:41,133 --> 00:16:44,266 and how they distribute propaganda online. 295 00:16:44,266 --> 00:16:46,200 >> It's very rudimentary in many respects. 296 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,433 They're not glossy, 297 00:16:47,433 --> 00:16:49,833 they don't look very digitally sophisticated. 298 00:16:49,833 --> 00:16:51,700 They look kind of old-school, in a way, 299 00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:54,133 almost like the old bulletin boards 300 00:16:54,133 --> 00:16:55,700 from the early '80s. 301 00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:58,700 >> THOMPSON: 4chan was started in 2003 302 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,766 by 15-year-old entrepreneur Chris Poole 303 00:17:01,766 --> 00:17:04,800 as a space to communicate with his friends. 304 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,000 Unexpectedly, it became a phenomenon. 305 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,433 >> There are very few places now where you can go 306 00:17:10,433 --> 00:17:12,300 and not have ident, to be, be completely anonymous 307 00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:14,866 and say, and say whatever you'd like. 308 00:17:14,866 --> 00:17:19,200 >> THOMPSON: 4chan became known as a meme factory. 309 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,866 But with anonymity and little moderation, 310 00:17:21,866 --> 00:17:25,100 the content grew increasingly edgy. 311 00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:27,400 Despite some efforts to clean up the site, 312 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,000 by the time Chris Poole sold 4chan in 2015, 313 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,600 it had become a popular destination 314 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,733 for racists and extremists. 315 00:17:35,733 --> 00:17:38,233 >> One of the things that started to happen on 4chan 316 00:17:38,233 --> 00:17:42,500 is a kind of accumulation of neo-Nazi, white supremacist, 317 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:47,800 misogynistic, extreme, hateful tenets and trends. 318 00:17:49,433 --> 00:17:52,133 >> These people are going in, there's, it's humor, 319 00:17:52,133 --> 00:17:55,300 there are memes, they're getting all these ideas 320 00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:57,800 of anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, 321 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,733 ideas of white genocide, and so on, 322 00:17:59,733 --> 00:18:01,500 all in just little snippets 323 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:03,300 that are really, really easy to take in, 324 00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:04,866 and maybe without even noticing 325 00:18:04,866 --> 00:18:06,700 that they are developing these ideas 326 00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:09,100 that are racist and potentially violent. 327 00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:10,966 >> THOMPSON: Tarrant's path over the years 328 00:18:10,966 --> 00:18:15,200 appears to have followed that process of radicalization. 329 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,966 The researchers found posts from 2015, 330 00:18:18,966 --> 00:18:21,866 after Dylann Roof killed nine Black members of a church 331 00:18:21,866 --> 00:18:24,333 in Charleston. 332 00:18:24,333 --> 00:18:26,666 >> So these are posts from Tarrant dated June 2015, 333 00:18:26,666 --> 00:18:28,366 and they're in response 334 00:18:28,366 --> 00:18:30,433 to somebody who posted Dylann Roof's manifesto. 335 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:32,800 "They're in the wrong country, 336 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,500 perpetuating the destruction of the white race." 337 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:39,333 >> THOMPSON: For Tarrant, it was a turning point. 338 00:18:39,333 --> 00:18:42,466 The big moments on the 4chan /pol/ board 339 00:18:42,466 --> 00:18:45,400 are the moments where there's a massive attack. 340 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,800 4chan is a place where, when people go out 341 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,666 and commit acts of white supremacist terrorism, 342 00:18:51,666 --> 00:18:53,633 they are celebrated 343 00:18:53,633 --> 00:18:57,200 and lauded and hailed as heroes, so, 344 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,400 you should not be surprised 345 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,100 if that kind of adulation 346 00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:06,166 doesn't spawn more people seeking that fame. 347 00:19:08,266 --> 00:19:12,166 The current owner of 4chan, Hiroyuki Nishimura, 348 00:19:12,166 --> 00:19:14,533 did not respond to interview requests. 349 00:19:14,533 --> 00:19:16,866 The site's administrators have said that any threat of 350 00:19:16,866 --> 00:19:20,066 violence or terrorist acts violates their rules, 351 00:19:20,066 --> 00:19:22,766 and that they've banned users who've done so. 352 00:19:28,466 --> 00:19:31,766 In August 2017, Brenton Tarrant moved 353 00:19:31,766 --> 00:19:36,100 to Dunedin, a city on the coast of New Zealand's South Island. 354 00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:41,266 It was here that he plotted his accelerationist attack, 355 00:19:41,266 --> 00:19:44,333 leaving clues of his intent on 4chan. 356 00:19:45,866 --> 00:19:48,433 >> He let everybody know that he was going to commit an attack 357 00:19:48,433 --> 00:19:50,133 at least twice. 358 00:19:50,133 --> 00:19:54,033 In two threads, in March and August 2018, 359 00:19:54,033 --> 00:19:58,300 he speaks angrily about the spread of people of color 360 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:01,466 and the supposed spread of mosques in New Zealand. 361 00:20:03,033 --> 00:20:06,100 >> Somebody posts matches to indicate, 362 00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:09,700 "Hey, this would be a good idea to burn these mosques down." 363 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:11,866 And Tarrant comes in and says, "Soon." 364 00:20:13,666 --> 00:20:15,266 >> THOMPSON: The truth of the matter is, 365 00:20:15,266 --> 00:20:18,233 he was carrying out 366 00:20:18,233 --> 00:20:21,000 the aspirations of the online community. 367 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,166 So he wasn't a lone actor. 368 00:20:23,166 --> 00:20:26,800 He was a guy who was reflecting the values of his community. 369 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,700 (computer keys clacking) 370 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:33,166 As Tarrant prepared, he wrote a 74-page manifesto 371 00:20:33,166 --> 00:20:36,233 full of falsehoods and racist ideology. 372 00:20:37,433 --> 00:20:39,000 He called it "The Great Replacement," 373 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,100 after a conspiracy theory about a supposed plot 374 00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:42,966 to wipe out the white race. 375 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,666 And then came March 15. 376 00:20:50,433 --> 00:20:52,200 (sirens blaring) 377 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,466 >> Breaking news after reports of a shooting... 378 00:20:54,466 --> 00:20:56,933 >> An anti-Muslim terror attack in New Zealand. 379 00:20:56,933 --> 00:20:58,600 >> Multiple people ruthlessly gunned down. 380 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,033 >> Under his name online is a racist manifesto, claiming... 381 00:21:02,033 --> 00:21:04,366 >> THOMPSON: Tarrant posted links to his manifesto 382 00:21:04,366 --> 00:21:07,166 on a site similar to 4chan called 8chan. 383 00:21:08,366 --> 00:21:10,266 In a disturbing innovation, 384 00:21:10,266 --> 00:21:13,533 he also live-streamed the attacks on Facebook, 385 00:21:13,533 --> 00:21:16,466 filmed like a first-person shooter game. 386 00:21:16,466 --> 00:21:19,033 >> He used every available means 387 00:21:19,033 --> 00:21:21,433 of dissemination of his ideas that he could. 388 00:21:21,433 --> 00:21:23,333 Mainstream social media accounts. 389 00:21:23,333 --> 00:21:26,933 He used this new technology, the GoPro camera, 390 00:21:26,933 --> 00:21:30,133 to make a live stream, which would mean 391 00:21:30,133 --> 00:21:32,900 that the propaganda was almost impossible to stop 392 00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:34,600 and would continue for years to come. 393 00:21:36,966 --> 00:21:40,066 >> THOMPSON: The Christchurch attack convulsed New Zealand. 394 00:21:40,066 --> 00:21:42,633 In the aftermath, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern 395 00:21:42,633 --> 00:21:44,833 issued an edict. 396 00:21:44,833 --> 00:21:46,600 >> He may have sought notoriety, 397 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:51,633 but we in New Zealand will give him nothing-- not even his name. 398 00:21:51,633 --> 00:21:54,066 >> THOMPSON: His manifesto was banned, 399 00:21:54,066 --> 00:21:57,133 the attack video made illegal to possess. 400 00:21:57,133 --> 00:22:00,900 They were trying to stop Tarrant's toxic propaganda 401 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:02,566 and erase his name. 402 00:22:02,566 --> 00:22:05,500 But online, Tarrant was becoming an icon. 403 00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:08,333 His racist propaganda was spreading. 404 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,566 The manifesto was posted, quoted, and shared worldwide. 405 00:22:17,566 --> 00:22:20,333 Facebook had quickly taken down the livestream, 406 00:22:20,333 --> 00:22:23,766 but new links were put up on 4chan and 8chan. 407 00:22:26,433 --> 00:22:28,166 >> It was one of the most widely shared 408 00:22:28,166 --> 00:22:29,933 pieces of content of that, of that nature 409 00:22:29,933 --> 00:22:31,500 ever in the history of the internet. 410 00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:33,700 >> THOMPSON: Matt Kriner is an expert 411 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:35,900 on violent extremism and has studied 412 00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:38,733 how Christchurch became a model for future attacks. 413 00:22:40,133 --> 00:22:42,733 >> He constructed a very clear formula 414 00:22:42,733 --> 00:22:44,566 for others to follow in his footsteps, 415 00:22:44,566 --> 00:22:46,100 because that's ultimately what he wanted. 416 00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:50,300 He wanted others to see what he was doing as a call to action. 417 00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:53,066 >> THOMPSON: By the time of the Christchurch attacks, 418 00:22:53,066 --> 00:22:58,233 many far-right extremists had migrated from 4chan to 8chan. 419 00:22:58,233 --> 00:22:59,766 >> BANDLER: We wanted to see 420 00:22:59,766 --> 00:23:02,366 who created this platform 421 00:23:02,366 --> 00:23:04,800 with almost no content moderation. 422 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,133 Well, this platform that had become sort of a 423 00:23:08,133 --> 00:23:10,933 free-for-all for some of the ugliest speech. 424 00:23:10,933 --> 00:23:14,966 And we reached out to Fredrick Brennan and went and saw him. 425 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,900 >> THOMPSON: Fredrick Brennan had started 8chan in 2013. 426 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:22,700 He was born with a congenital condition 427 00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:24,366 affecting his bone structure. 428 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:26,966 >> It's a very rare disease, 429 00:23:26,966 --> 00:23:29,033 so there's not much funding in research. 430 00:23:29,033 --> 00:23:30,033 >> BANDLER: What's the disease called? 431 00:23:30,033 --> 00:23:32,033 >> Osteogenesis imperfecta. 432 00:23:32,033 --> 00:23:33,666 >> THOMPSON: Early on, Brennan developed 433 00:23:33,666 --> 00:23:36,733 a passion for computers and coding, 434 00:23:36,733 --> 00:23:39,633 and discovered chat sites, including 4chan. 435 00:23:39,633 --> 00:23:42,033 >> I became really interested 436 00:23:42,033 --> 00:23:44,666 in how 4chan was set up, like, technically. 437 00:23:44,666 --> 00:23:48,500 It was fun for me, because, I, 438 00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:49,966 especially as a kid, 439 00:23:49,966 --> 00:23:51,866 was very different from everyone else. 440 00:23:51,866 --> 00:23:54,500 >> THOMPSON: As a teenager on 4chan, 441 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:57,300 Brennan used the platform's signature anonymity 442 00:23:57,300 --> 00:24:01,133 to make outrageous and offensive statements. 443 00:24:01,133 --> 00:24:02,700 >> One of the ways that I rebelled was that 444 00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:07,133 I became, like, this very fringe advocate 445 00:24:07,133 --> 00:24:09,666 for the Nazi movement of eugenics. 446 00:24:09,666 --> 00:24:10,866 >> BANDLER: To kill people like yourself... 447 00:24:10,866 --> 00:24:12,500 >> Yes, to kill people like myself, yes. 448 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:15,033 It made me feel really smart 449 00:24:15,033 --> 00:24:17,900 to be, like, 15, 16, right? 450 00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:21,300 And to be saying things that these adults 451 00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:25,000 don't know how to even conceive of somebody who was disabled 452 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,133 telling them, "People like me shouldn't exist." 453 00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:29,300 >> BANDLER: Have you changed your views 454 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:30,700 about eugenics and about... >> (laughs) 455 00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:32,233 Yes, of course. 456 00:24:32,233 --> 00:24:33,566 Yeah, though, I'm not, 457 00:24:33,566 --> 00:24:36,900 I'm definitely not a believer in eugenics anymore, no. 458 00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:40,333 That, uh, a teenage folly. 459 00:24:43,233 --> 00:24:46,233 >> THOMPSON: In 2013, inspired by 4chan, 460 00:24:46,233 --> 00:24:48,766 Brennan created his own site. 461 00:24:48,766 --> 00:24:51,066 >> (sighs): I thought that 462 00:24:51,066 --> 00:24:53,433 it would be kind of, like, 463 00:24:53,433 --> 00:24:56,566 the next stage of 4chan's evolution. 464 00:24:56,566 --> 00:24:58,600 >> THOMPSON: Brennan wanted 8chan 465 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,800 to have even less content moderation than 4chan. 466 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,200 >> See, on 4chan, 467 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,166 the website's administrators 468 00:25:06,166 --> 00:25:08,033 were still in charge of all the boards. 469 00:25:08,033 --> 00:25:11,433 So even the /pol/, like, politics board on 4chan 470 00:25:11,433 --> 00:25:13,333 was not just, like, a Nazi haven. 471 00:25:13,333 --> 00:25:16,600 But on 8chan, since it was all user-created, 472 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,733 we didn't have a /pol/ board until, like, 473 00:25:18,733 --> 00:25:21,366 a user who wanted one created it. 474 00:25:21,366 --> 00:25:23,566 Well, that guy, he named his user account Heil, 475 00:25:23,566 --> 00:25:24,700 so what do you think... 476 00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:25,733 >> BANDLER: Heil, as in "Heil Hitler." 477 00:25:25,733 --> 00:25:26,733 >> Yes, yes. 478 00:25:26,733 --> 00:25:27,966 And, you know, 479 00:25:27,966 --> 00:25:28,966 he very clearly made it 480 00:25:28,966 --> 00:25:30,866 a Nazi stronghold, you know. 481 00:25:30,866 --> 00:25:32,966 >> BANDLER: You're basically asking people... 482 00:25:32,966 --> 00:25:34,166 >> Asking users, yes. 483 00:25:34,166 --> 00:25:35,166 >> BANDLER: ...who are already on the site 484 00:25:35,166 --> 00:25:36,266 to police it. >> Yes. 485 00:25:36,266 --> 00:25:38,733 Yes. >> BANDLER: How does that work? 486 00:25:38,733 --> 00:25:40,500 >> Um, not very well. (chuckles) 487 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,466 >> THOMPSON: Within two years, amid a wave of new users 488 00:25:45,466 --> 00:25:48,066 and mounting costs, he sold 8chan. 489 00:25:48,066 --> 00:25:50,466 But he continued working with the new owners, 490 00:25:50,466 --> 00:25:54,066 until a falling-out led him to cut ties altogether. 491 00:25:54,066 --> 00:25:56,766 >> I, you know, I don't know what the future holds, but... 492 00:25:56,766 --> 00:26:01,400 Then, in 2019, I was just starting to get over it. 493 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,500 And I was thinking at that time, "Okay, 494 00:26:03,500 --> 00:26:05,566 these guys are nothing," you know what I mean? 495 00:26:05,566 --> 00:26:07,400 Like, "8chan is not that big of a site. 496 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,333 "4chan is still the main one. 497 00:26:09,333 --> 00:26:12,533 It's just going to slowly die and sink into irrelevance." 498 00:26:12,533 --> 00:26:14,666 That's what I thought, very foolishly. 499 00:26:14,666 --> 00:26:18,566 Um, and then these shooters start using it. 500 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,800 >> There's been a shooting at a synagogue in Poway. 501 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,533 >> White male shooter entered with an AR-style rifle 502 00:26:25,533 --> 00:26:26,766 and opened fire... 503 00:26:26,766 --> 00:26:29,000 >> Six shots, a pause, another burst. 504 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,433 The sheriff believes the weapon jammed at that point. 505 00:26:31,433 --> 00:26:34,266 >> THOMPSON: Just six weeks after Brenton Tarrant 506 00:26:34,266 --> 00:26:37,200 had posted his manifesto and live stream on 8chan, 507 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,500 the first copycat attack, near San Diego, California. 508 00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,700 >> One woman was killed, three other people wounded. 509 00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:47,100 >> THOMPSON: The gunman killed Lori Gilbert-Kaye, 510 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:49,233 a 60-year-old member of the synagogue, 511 00:26:49,233 --> 00:26:52,200 and injured three others, including an eight-year-old. 512 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,866 >> The suspected gunman is identified as 19-year-old 513 00:26:55,866 --> 00:26:57,866 John Earnest of San Diego. 514 00:26:57,866 --> 00:27:00,666 He's a college student with no criminal record. 515 00:27:00,666 --> 00:27:02,000 >> Worshippers say he... 516 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:08,633 >> There was an enormous amount of police activity. 517 00:27:08,633 --> 00:27:10,366 We parked our car, 518 00:27:10,366 --> 00:27:13,166 and I can remember talking to a police officer. 519 00:27:13,166 --> 00:27:15,133 They had mentioned another house. 520 00:27:15,133 --> 00:27:16,433 And I felt this relief. 521 00:27:16,433 --> 00:27:20,200 "Oh! Thank goodness, it's not, it's not us." 522 00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:23,700 But that wasn't the case. 523 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:26,833 It was us. It was my son. 524 00:27:30,133 --> 00:27:31,733 >> THOMPSON: Authorities began investigating 525 00:27:31,733 --> 00:27:33,933 the shooter's online life. 526 00:27:33,933 --> 00:27:35,800 >> Police are reviewing an open letter 527 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,100 he posted online slamming President Trump, 528 00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,266 the Jewish faith, and conservatives. 529 00:27:40,266 --> 00:27:44,033 >> The 19-year-old gunman bragged in his manifesto 530 00:27:44,033 --> 00:27:47,533 about starting a mosque fire in Escondido last month. 531 00:27:49,866 --> 00:27:51,766 >> This is the mosque, 532 00:27:51,766 --> 00:27:54,266 and he spray-painted the name 533 00:27:54,266 --> 00:27:56,833 of the New Zealand shooter, 534 00:27:56,833 --> 00:27:59,500 and "/pol/" is from the 8chan. 535 00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:01,000 It's "politically incorrect." 536 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000 >> THOMPSON: San Diego district attorney Summer Stephan 537 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,966 prosecuted Earnest for the attack. 538 00:28:06,966 --> 00:28:09,733 >> What happened is, he first shot 539 00:28:09,733 --> 00:28:12,766 right from outside to the inside of the synagogue, 540 00:28:12,766 --> 00:28:16,133 he struck Lori Gilbert-Kaye. 541 00:28:17,366 --> 00:28:20,566 He went into a room where there were a lot of kids 542 00:28:20,566 --> 00:28:22,866 and began shooting, 543 00:28:22,866 --> 00:28:25,500 so he was prepared to do maximum damage. 544 00:28:27,033 --> 00:28:28,233 >> The suspect accused 545 00:28:28,233 --> 00:28:30,600 of shooting four people, killing one of them. 546 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,300 >> Including an arson fire at a mosque in Escondido. 547 00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:35,733 >> And numerous hate crime allegations. 548 00:28:35,733 --> 00:28:38,800 >> THOMPSON: Earnest eventually pleaded guilty. 549 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,800 He was sentenced to life in prison without parole. 550 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,300 This is the first time his father 551 00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:45,666 has spoken publicly about his son. 552 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:50,066 >> He loved his family. He had friends. 553 00:28:51,566 --> 00:28:53,600 He was a fantastic pianist. 554 00:28:54,766 --> 00:28:58,566 He was never a part of any kind of a hate group. 555 00:28:58,566 --> 00:29:00,400 >> THOMPSON: I have to ask it. 556 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,266 Your, your family are not anti-Semites. 557 00:29:02,266 --> 00:29:03,833 >> No. >> THOMPSON: You're not racist, 558 00:29:03,833 --> 00:29:07,133 haters, is that, that right? >> That, we are not, at all. 559 00:29:07,133 --> 00:29:10,400 He was never exposed to that, he-- from us. 560 00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:14,033 ♪ ♪ 561 00:29:14,033 --> 00:29:17,533 >> THOMPSON: Investigators said the shooter was radicalized 562 00:29:17,533 --> 00:29:20,866 over the course of about a year on 8chan and other sites. 563 00:29:22,466 --> 00:29:27,366 >> The entire process of him becoming radicalized 564 00:29:27,366 --> 00:29:30,166 appeared to have happened online only, 565 00:29:30,166 --> 00:29:33,433 taking someone who was a 4.4 student 566 00:29:33,433 --> 00:29:37,500 all the way to a cold-hearted killer. 567 00:29:38,866 --> 00:29:40,866 >> THOMPSON: Earnest's father says his son started out 568 00:29:40,866 --> 00:29:43,866 on mainstream platforms like YouTube. 569 00:29:43,866 --> 00:29:45,500 Early on, he was a fan 570 00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:48,666 of conservative political commentator Ben Shapiro-- 571 00:29:48,666 --> 00:29:50,900 until suddenly, he turned against him. 572 00:29:52,133 --> 00:29:55,666 >> John T. said that, "Well, that's a Jew. 573 00:29:55,666 --> 00:29:59,400 This guy is hated, he's part of the whole conspiracy," 574 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,500 and that, "I don't listen to him anymore." 575 00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:06,833 And for me, that was such an abrupt change. 576 00:30:06,833 --> 00:30:11,033 It is something that kind of caught me off-guard. 577 00:30:11,033 --> 00:30:14,733 >> THOMPSON: And then he moves to 4chan and 8chan. 578 00:30:15,933 --> 00:30:18,200 >> Yes, John T., 579 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,166 he did talk to me a little bit about 4chan. 580 00:30:20,166 --> 00:30:23,100 I had heard about it, and then I had also heard about 8chan. 581 00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:26,200 I knew that that was something even darker. 582 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,233 Um... 583 00:30:27,233 --> 00:30:29,533 But I, I did not quite understand 584 00:30:29,533 --> 00:30:30,766 what it was all about. 585 00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:34,633 >> THOMPSON: In his manifesto, which was posted on 8chan, 586 00:30:34,633 --> 00:30:37,366 he wrote that Tarrant was a catalyst for him. 587 00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:40,400 Did he talk to you about Tarrant? 588 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,866 >> He had mentioned Tarrant 589 00:30:44,866 --> 00:30:48,733 and the heinous crime 590 00:30:48,733 --> 00:30:52,133 that Tarrant had committed against the mosque. 591 00:30:52,133 --> 00:30:54,933 He wanted to be very clear that he supported 592 00:30:54,933 --> 00:30:58,566 what Tarrant had done in the Christchurch shooting. 593 00:30:58,566 --> 00:31:00,666 He gave no hint that this is something 594 00:31:00,666 --> 00:31:02,566 that he would like to do, as well. 595 00:31:04,333 --> 00:31:06,733 >> THOMPSON: So he was playing you, in your mind. 596 00:31:06,733 --> 00:31:09,066 He was savvy. >> (sighs): I don't... 597 00:31:09,066 --> 00:31:12,733 At that point, I don't know-- I don't know how this grows. 598 00:31:12,733 --> 00:31:15,600 It could be that he was playing me. 599 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,300 In fact, I, I explicitly asked him 600 00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:20,966 at one point about violence, 601 00:31:20,966 --> 00:31:24,433 and he said that he would never resort to violence. 602 00:31:24,433 --> 00:31:27,466 >> THOMPSON: What prompted you to ask him 603 00:31:27,466 --> 00:31:30,933 about the possibility that he would engage in violence? 604 00:31:30,933 --> 00:31:33,066 >> Because so much violence was associated 605 00:31:33,066 --> 00:31:38,300 with the, the people that he seemed to be honoring. 606 00:31:40,433 --> 00:31:41,666 ♪ ♪ 607 00:31:41,666 --> 00:31:44,233 >> This is when he was arrested. 608 00:31:44,233 --> 00:31:49,900 It seemed like he was really aspiring to that mass killer. 609 00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:51,366 In less than a month, 610 00:31:51,366 --> 00:31:54,600 had downloaded and searched the name 611 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,233 of the New Zealand shooter 612 00:31:56,233 --> 00:31:58,100 104 times, and... 613 00:31:58,100 --> 00:32:01,333 >> THOMPSON: 104 times? >> Yes-- he was hoping 614 00:32:01,333 --> 00:32:04,100 he would do the same as the New Zealand shooter, 615 00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:07,633 and inspire a horrible generation of people 616 00:32:07,633 --> 00:32:09,700 that will also kill. 617 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,600 ♪ ♪ 618 00:32:19,033 --> 00:32:21,300 (sirens blaring in distance) 619 00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:23,033 >> THOMPSON: Three months later, 620 00:32:23,033 --> 00:32:27,733 another attack linked to 8chan, this time in El Paso. 621 00:32:27,733 --> 00:32:31,366 (sirens blaring) 622 00:32:31,366 --> 00:32:34,400 >> At least 20 people dead, more than two dozen injured, 623 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,500 the wounded ranging in age from two years old to 82 years old. 624 00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:40,866 >> Moments before the mass murder in El Paso, 625 00:32:40,866 --> 00:32:43,633 the suspect detailed his plans and ideology 626 00:32:43,633 --> 00:32:46,266 in a post on the internet forum 8chan. 627 00:32:46,266 --> 00:32:48,133 >> THOMPSON: Although 8chan quickly removed 628 00:32:48,133 --> 00:32:51,000 the shooter's manifesto, as it had done after San Diego, 629 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,233 it was too late. 630 00:32:53,233 --> 00:32:56,466 It had been copied and would be widely reposted. 631 00:32:57,733 --> 00:32:58,966 >> Christchurch had happened, 632 00:32:58,966 --> 00:33:01,300 and that was the first large one. 633 00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:04,700 Then in San Diego, then finally in El Paso. 634 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:08,233 >> Tonight, the man who created 8chan wants it shut down. 635 00:33:08,233 --> 00:33:10,700 >> THOMPSON: 8chan's founder, Fredrick Brennan, 636 00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:13,400 decided enough was enough. 637 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,600 >> The current administrators of 8chan 638 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,100 don't care that this is happening. 639 00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:21,566 >> THOMPSON: He urged that the site he founded be shut down. 640 00:33:21,566 --> 00:33:23,333 8chan was dropped by the companies 641 00:33:23,333 --> 00:33:24,700 that kept it up and running 642 00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:27,533 on the internet, and soon went dark. 643 00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:32,366 But it would be a short-lived victory. 644 00:33:32,366 --> 00:33:33,600 >> You know, 645 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,133 these white supremacist groups adapt, right? 646 00:33:36,133 --> 00:33:39,066 It's like, you take away their toy, 647 00:33:39,066 --> 00:33:42,000 and they're not going to just sit around and do nothing. 648 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,200 You know what I mean? 649 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,133 They're gonna try to find a new platform. 650 00:33:45,133 --> 00:33:47,500 ♪ ♪ 651 00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:50,933 >> THOMPSON: That new platform would turn out to be Telegram, 652 00:33:50,933 --> 00:33:54,933 a messaging and social media app started in 2013 653 00:33:54,933 --> 00:33:58,000 by Russian tech entrepreneur Pavel Durov 654 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,133 and his brother Nikolai. 655 00:34:00,133 --> 00:34:04,966 >> BANDLER: One of their chief marketing pitches was 656 00:34:04,966 --> 00:34:07,400 that this would be a place free of censorship, 657 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,600 that it would be a place where free speech was paramount, 658 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,300 and it was also private and secure. 659 00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:16,633 I'm starting a new document. 660 00:34:16,633 --> 00:34:18,733 >> THOMPSON: Open it up and share it-- oh... 661 00:34:18,733 --> 00:34:21,566 >> BANDLER: And I'm calling it "Letter to Pavel." 662 00:34:21,566 --> 00:34:24,100 >> THOMPSON: Telegram is based in Dubai. 663 00:34:24,100 --> 00:34:26,333 It has close to a billion users, 664 00:34:26,333 --> 00:34:30,333 but only about 60 employees, many of them engineers. 665 00:34:30,333 --> 00:34:33,433 From the start, Telegram took an extreme approach 666 00:34:33,433 --> 00:34:34,766 to free speech 667 00:34:34,766 --> 00:34:37,300 and offered more powerful features 668 00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:41,500 than other platforms, giving it mass appeal. 669 00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:45,400 So you can send encrypted messages to your friends. 670 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,733 You can create big chat groups, where you have 671 00:34:47,733 --> 00:34:50,033 thousands of people chatting, 672 00:34:50,033 --> 00:34:54,100 or you can turn it into a sort of one-way broadcast system, 673 00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:57,766 where you are pumping out your propaganda and your message 674 00:34:57,766 --> 00:35:01,033 day after day to a group of people 675 00:35:01,033 --> 00:35:04,266 who are subscribing to your broadcast channel. 676 00:35:05,833 --> 00:35:08,866 >> BANDLER: Telegram, much like the chans, was a platform 677 00:35:08,866 --> 00:35:10,433 where almost anything went. 678 00:35:10,433 --> 00:35:13,533 There was virtually no moderation. 679 00:35:13,533 --> 00:35:16,766 This platform became immensely useful 680 00:35:16,766 --> 00:35:22,166 for social justice activists in repressive countries, 681 00:35:22,166 --> 00:35:25,833 and it also became a place that was also useful 682 00:35:25,833 --> 00:35:28,700 for people committing crimes and terrorists. 683 00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:32,900 >> THOMPSON: In 2015, the app became popular with ISIS. 684 00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:34,366 >> There's an app called Telegram 685 00:35:34,366 --> 00:35:36,700 that more and more of members of ISIS are using. 686 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:39,166 >> Telegram became the preferred communication method for ISIS. 687 00:35:39,166 --> 00:35:41,000 The group used it 688 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,966 to claim responsibility for the Paris attacks... 689 00:35:42,966 --> 00:35:46,100 >> THOMPSON: Under pressure from European governments, 690 00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:49,866 Telegram began to shut down ISIS channels. 691 00:35:49,866 --> 00:35:53,733 But accelerationists soon followed the ISIS example. 692 00:35:53,733 --> 00:35:56,033 >> Extremists started plotting in a chat room called Telegram. 693 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,200 >> THOMPSON: By 2019, white supremacists were flocking 694 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,833 to Telegram from 8chan 695 00:36:03,833 --> 00:36:07,300 and from major platforms like Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter, 696 00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:11,933 which were increasingly policing content and banning users. 697 00:36:11,933 --> 00:36:13,366 There was an organized effort 698 00:36:13,366 --> 00:36:16,400 by white supremacists and accelerationists 699 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,500 to move on to Telegram. 700 00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:20,733 And they saw it as their new home, 701 00:36:20,733 --> 00:36:23,233 and a place where maybe they wouldn't be harassed 702 00:36:23,233 --> 00:36:26,366 and kicked off the platform for a while. 703 00:36:26,366 --> 00:36:28,933 These are all people who have met 704 00:36:28,933 --> 00:36:32,033 to encourage one another to engage 705 00:36:32,033 --> 00:36:36,066 in acts of lethal terrorism and industrial sabotage. 706 00:36:36,066 --> 00:36:41,333 This is a very militant, aggressive, dangerous community. 707 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,400 Nobody from Telegram would agree to an interview. 708 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,766 In a written statement, the company said 709 00:36:51,766 --> 00:36:55,500 it "has always screened postings for problematic content" 710 00:36:55,500 --> 00:37:00,466 and "calls for violence from any group are not tolerated." 711 00:37:01,866 --> 00:37:04,566 But on October 12, 2022, 712 00:37:04,566 --> 00:37:06,533 a young man who had spent years 713 00:37:06,533 --> 00:37:08,733 in accelerationist chats on Telegram 714 00:37:08,733 --> 00:37:12,033 made the leap from online extremist 715 00:37:12,033 --> 00:37:14,166 to real-world terrorist, 716 00:37:14,166 --> 00:37:20,733 here, in Bratislava. (bell ringing) 717 00:37:20,733 --> 00:37:24,366 ♪ ♪ 718 00:37:26,233 --> 00:37:29,300 >> THOMPSON: That night, Radka Trok iarová had seen 719 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:33,333 her two friends get gunned down outside the Tepláre bar. 720 00:37:33,333 --> 00:37:37,866 She'd also been shot, twice, in the leg, 721 00:37:37,866 --> 00:37:41,000 but dragged herself to safety. 722 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,766 >> (speaking Slovak): 723 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,666 >> THOMPSON: In the hours after the attack, 724 00:38:02,666 --> 00:38:05,700 as 19-year-old Juraj Kraj ík went on the run, 725 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:08,400 he kept posting on social media. 726 00:38:09,633 --> 00:38:11,766 His handle was an acronym, 727 00:38:11,766 --> 00:38:17,466 "NTMA0315": Never Take Me Alive March 15, 728 00:38:17,466 --> 00:38:20,633 an apparent reference to the Christchurch attack. 729 00:38:20,633 --> 00:38:24,933 >> (speaking Slovak): 730 00:38:26,233 --> 00:38:29,433 >> MAREK MADRO: 731 00:38:33,366 --> 00:38:35,466 >> THOMPSON: Marek Madro is a psychologist 732 00:38:35,466 --> 00:38:39,133 who runs a youth crisis hotline in Bratislava. 733 00:38:40,166 --> 00:38:44,733 >> MADRO: 734 00:38:49,166 --> 00:38:51,233 >> WOMAN: 735 00:38:51,233 --> 00:38:53,400 >> THOMPSON: As the manhunt continued, 736 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,666 the shooter was threatening to kill himself. 737 00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:02,766 >> MADRO: 738 00:39:08,433 --> 00:39:09,600 (inhales) 739 00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:48,500 (exhales) 740 00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:56,833 >> THOMPSON: I came here to try to understand more 741 00:39:56,833 --> 00:39:59,066 about what had motivated this 19-year-old 742 00:39:59,066 --> 00:40:02,966 to launch a terror attack and then kill himself. 743 00:40:04,466 --> 00:40:06,000 At the time, 744 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,700 the authorities examined the shooter's manifesto, 745 00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:11,200 but little was known about his online connections 746 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,766 to far-right extremists, 747 00:40:12,766 --> 00:40:16,300 or who he'd been communicating with about his plans. 748 00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:18,633 How's your morning going? >> Not bad. 749 00:40:18,633 --> 00:40:20,100 >> THOMPSON: I met the prosecutor 750 00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:23,066 who oversaw the investigation of the attack. 751 00:40:23,066 --> 00:40:24,600 >> We knew about the manifesto, 752 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,466 uh, when we were on the crime scene already, 753 00:40:26,466 --> 00:40:28,166 because he published it, I think, 754 00:40:28,166 --> 00:40:29,733 few hours before the attack. 755 00:40:29,733 --> 00:40:34,800 Now, that manifesto, if you read it, 90% of that is anti-Semitic. 756 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,800 Frankly speaking, only a, a small part of it 757 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,200 is against LGBT. 758 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,733 The bulk of it is anti-Semitic. 759 00:40:41,733 --> 00:40:44,300 >> THOMPSON: What do you think led him 760 00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:46,766 to commit this act of terrorism 761 00:40:46,766 --> 00:40:50,600 and to subscribe to this extremist ideology? 762 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,166 >> Well, based on, uh... 763 00:40:52,166 --> 00:40:55,666 Of course, uh, he, he made it very clear in the manifesto. 764 00:40:55,666 --> 00:40:58,800 I mean, he was interested very much in the Christchurch attack 765 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,266 in New Zealand, 766 00:41:00,266 --> 00:41:03,500 and in the attack committed by John Earnest in California. 767 00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:05,666 Those were the role models for him. 768 00:41:06,766 --> 00:41:08,500 It was kind of, like, 769 00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:12,800 to a certain extent, you might call it a, a copycat crime. 770 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,500 >> THOMPSON: Do you know if the attacker was a member 771 00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:17,033 of any real-world groups? 772 00:41:17,033 --> 00:41:18,800 >> We were not able to establish 773 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,333 that he was involved in any groups. 774 00:41:20,333 --> 00:41:25,200 From the investigation, it seems that he was a lone wolf. 775 00:41:26,333 --> 00:41:27,966 >> THOMPSON: But as I dug deeper, 776 00:41:27,966 --> 00:41:30,400 a different story began emerging. 777 00:41:33,166 --> 00:41:35,400 In his manifesto, Kraj ík had thanked 778 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,200 the "Terrorgram Collective" 779 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,033 for what he called its "incredible writing," 780 00:41:40,033 --> 00:41:44,600 "political texts," and "practical guides." 781 00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:47,733 I had already heard of this group in 2019. 782 00:41:47,733 --> 00:41:51,533 It had started as an informal network on Telegram 783 00:41:51,900 --> 00:41:54,466 At first, it's just a handful 784 00:41:54,466 --> 00:41:57,900 of chat rooms and channels on Telegram. 785 00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:01,600 Then, it is bigger and bigger and bigger. 786 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,900 And finally, it takes on a formal shape. 787 00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:07,333 And people within that group say, 788 00:42:07,333 --> 00:42:08,633 "Now we're starting something 789 00:42:08,633 --> 00:42:10,233 "called the Terrorgram Collective, 790 00:42:10,233 --> 00:42:13,733 "and this is going to be our organized arm 791 00:42:13,733 --> 00:42:16,533 "that is going to generate in-depth propaganda, 792 00:42:16,533 --> 00:42:21,500 in-depth material for this community." 793 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,066 They're saying, "Hey, these guys like Brenton Tarrant? 794 00:42:26,066 --> 00:42:27,700 "These people are heroes. 795 00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:28,900 "We'll call them 'saints.' 796 00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:31,300 "And you should act like them. 797 00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:34,566 "You should become a disciple of Brenton Tarrant 798 00:42:34,566 --> 00:42:36,066 and go out and kill people." 799 00:42:40,366 --> 00:42:41,566 He posted that on Twitter? 800 00:42:41,566 --> 00:42:44,266 >> I think, but I have to check. 801 00:42:44,266 --> 00:42:46,733 >> THOMPSON: I had been able to obtain a trove 802 00:42:46,733 --> 00:42:49,966 of archived posts from Telegram and other platforms. 803 00:42:51,233 --> 00:42:54,466 I teamed up with investigative journalists Luká Diko 804 00:42:54,466 --> 00:42:55,700 and Karin Sólymos, 805 00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:57,900 who had reported on Terrorgram in the aftermath 806 00:42:57,900 --> 00:42:59,966 of the Bratislava shooting. 807 00:43:01,166 --> 00:43:04,033 In his manifesto, Kraj ík had also singled out 808 00:43:04,033 --> 00:43:07,333 a key individual from the Terrorgram Collective, 809 00:43:07,333 --> 00:43:09,500 known as Slovakbro. 810 00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:11,066 Using the trove, 811 00:43:11,066 --> 00:43:15,300 we began to piece together a picture of Slovakbro. 812 00:43:15,300 --> 00:43:17,700 Luká came up with a bunch of usernames. 813 00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:19,100 And I took those usernames 814 00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:20,900 and put them everywhere I could find. 815 00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:22,833 And my understanding 816 00:43:22,833 --> 00:43:25,500 from looking at his social media history is that 817 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:29,333 Slovakbro starts off being, like, kind of a normie, 818 00:43:29,333 --> 00:43:33,300 and eventually, he gets into accelerationism and terrorism. 819 00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:37,766 And you see the whole arc of his change online. 820 00:43:37,766 --> 00:43:40,466 The posts showed that Slovakbro was 821 00:43:40,466 --> 00:43:42,600 a founding member of the Terrorgram community 822 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,233 and one of its most prolific content creators. 823 00:43:46,233 --> 00:43:49,666 Slovakbro is a big guy in this world. 824 00:43:49,666 --> 00:43:52,933 He has thousands of people in his channels. 825 00:43:52,933 --> 00:43:55,300 He's spreading all kinds of stuff. 826 00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:57,533 Some of it is instructions. 827 00:43:57,533 --> 00:43:59,766 "This is how you do a crime and you don't get caught." 828 00:43:59,766 --> 00:44:02,700 "Don't talk about, you know, what you're gonna do on here." 829 00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:04,900 Some of it is inspirational. 830 00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:07,533 It's, like, "Here's a graphic that's gonna inspire you 831 00:44:07,533 --> 00:44:08,800 to go kill people." 832 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,166 Some of it is, is operational, it's, like, 833 00:44:11,166 --> 00:44:12,600 "Here's a, a manual 834 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,800 for making high-powered explosive or to 3D-print a gun." 835 00:44:19,700 --> 00:44:21,366 Slovakbro's real identity 836 00:44:21,366 --> 00:44:22,866 was Pavol Be adik, 837 00:44:22,866 --> 00:44:25,733 a 22-year-old Slovakian student. 838 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,233 He'd been arrested and jailed 839 00:44:29,233 --> 00:44:31,733 months before the Bratislava shootings 840 00:44:31,733 --> 00:44:35,333 and charged with more than 100 terrorism offenses 841 00:44:35,333 --> 00:44:37,566 stemming from his Telegram posts. 842 00:44:40,533 --> 00:44:43,533 We wanted to find out what the Slovak authorities knew 843 00:44:43,533 --> 00:44:47,566 about any ties between him and Juraj Kraj ík. 844 00:44:47,566 --> 00:44:49,000 >> Were you able to establish 845 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,600 if they were in any kind of communication? 846 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,100 >> Well, they, they were in communication, 847 00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:55,833 but, but, because we, of course, 848 00:44:55,833 --> 00:44:58,600 interrogated the person known, uh, 849 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,033 as Slovakbro in this case, and, yes, 850 00:45:02,033 --> 00:45:04,666 they did communicate, but only very briefly. 851 00:45:04,666 --> 00:45:06,166 >> So there... 852 00:45:06,166 --> 00:45:07,500 >> THOMPSON: And this was a direct message between the two? 853 00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:08,800 >> Yes, yes-- of course, they didn't know that... 854 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,266 They did not know about their identities, 855 00:45:11,266 --> 00:45:12,333 but that was it. 856 00:45:12,333 --> 00:45:14,000 There was nothing, uh, 857 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,266 nothing significant in their communication. 858 00:45:16,266 --> 00:45:18,866 >> You mean that Slovakbro didn't incite him... 859 00:45:18,866 --> 00:45:19,966 >> No. >> ...to go and 860 00:45:19,966 --> 00:45:21,000 kill people? >> No, not at all. 861 00:45:22,666 --> 00:45:23,966 >> THOMPSON: But Slovak authorities 862 00:45:23,966 --> 00:45:25,766 didn't have the whole picture. 863 00:45:26,866 --> 00:45:29,900 The prosecutors say, "Oh, they didn't really know each other. 864 00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:31,366 "They didn't communicate. 865 00:45:31,366 --> 00:45:33,433 They only had one brief interaction." 866 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:40,133 Before we came here, I didn't know what Kraj ík, 867 00:45:40,133 --> 00:45:43,233 the Bratislava attacker, had done online. 868 00:45:43,233 --> 00:45:45,600 Didn't know who he was online. 869 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:46,800 I didn't know what he had posted. 870 00:45:48,333 --> 00:45:51,533 And when we were here, we discovered what I believe is 871 00:45:51,533 --> 00:45:55,633 his handle, his account in these Telegram chats, 872 00:45:55,633 --> 00:45:58,233 and it helped tell a different story 873 00:45:58,233 --> 00:46:02,366 than what law enforcement was telling. 874 00:46:04,866 --> 00:46:07,000 >> Can you go just one more up? 875 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,800 >> THOMPSON: To find Kraj ík's handle, 876 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,266 Luká Diko and I pored over thousands 877 00:46:11,266 --> 00:46:13,966 of archived Terrorgram chats from the trove. 878 00:46:13,966 --> 00:46:15,100 >> Slovak's War Room. 879 00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:16,266 >> THOMPSON: This is Slovak's War Room. 880 00:46:16,266 --> 00:46:18,233 >> That's the one, uh, Slovakbro deleted. 881 00:46:18,233 --> 00:46:20,200 >> THOMSON: Yeah. >> Yeah. 882 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:21,966 >> THOMPSON: I started going through these chats, 883 00:46:21,966 --> 00:46:24,266 looking to figure out who Juraj Kraj ík was. 884 00:46:24,266 --> 00:46:25,333 Is he in these chats? 885 00:46:25,333 --> 00:46:27,200 Does he connect with Slovakbro? 886 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,933 And then I found someone speaking Slovak, 887 00:46:30,933 --> 00:46:32,500 and it wasn't Slovakbro. 888 00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:33,833 It was someone else. 889 00:46:33,833 --> 00:46:38,000 Then I thought, "Oh, this person could be Juraj Kraj ík." 890 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:39,900 This is Slovakbro. >> Yes. 891 00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:41,300 >> THOMPSON: And now he's speaking in your language. 892 00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:45,866 >> Uh, it, it's, "Bobby, uh, my friend, let's fight." 893 00:46:45,866 --> 00:46:49,433 >> THOMPSON: The user went by the name "Bobby Bowie." 894 00:46:49,433 --> 00:46:54,033 These are chats with another Terrorgram group. 895 00:46:54,033 --> 00:46:56,133 Zeroing in on Bobby Bowie 896 00:46:56,133 --> 00:47:01,666 revealed more than 500 posts in Slovakbro's chats in late 2019, 897 00:47:01,666 --> 00:47:05,333 the early days of Terrorgram. 898 00:47:05,333 --> 00:47:07,633 Then there's other language in here 899 00:47:07,633 --> 00:47:09,433 that's like the language in his manifesto. 900 00:47:09,433 --> 00:47:10,466 It's almost exactly. 901 00:47:11,566 --> 00:47:13,633 It soon became clear that Bobby Bowie 902 00:47:13,633 --> 00:47:16,466 was Juraj Kraj ík. 903 00:47:16,466 --> 00:47:19,366 This is his manifesto, and he's talking about 904 00:47:19,366 --> 00:47:24,566 these memes that he saw on 8chan about Brenton Tarrant, 905 00:47:24,566 --> 00:47:26,466 the Christchurch attacker. 906 00:47:26,466 --> 00:47:29,900 In the posts on Telegram, 907 00:47:29,900 --> 00:47:31,700 he's talking about the same exact thing-- 908 00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:34,266 comparing Russia and America 909 00:47:34,266 --> 00:47:35,933 and saying they're both controlled by Jews. 910 00:47:35,933 --> 00:47:37,733 All this stuff that's... >> All the stuff that, 911 00:47:37,733 --> 00:47:40,966 that Kraj ík mentions in the manifesto. 912 00:47:40,966 --> 00:47:42,500 >> THOMPSON: Yeah. 913 00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:45,533 We could now track Kraj ík's radicalization 914 00:47:45,533 --> 00:47:50,500 on Terrorgram and see what his life was like before the attack. 915 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,133 This is the apartment complex? 916 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,966 >> THOMPSON: He had been living a comfortable life 917 00:47:57,966 --> 00:48:00,400 with his family in a middle-class neighborhood 918 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,766 a few miles from the center of Bratislava's Old Town. 919 00:48:04,866 --> 00:48:09,100 The chat logs show he'd spent many hours a day on Terrorgram. 920 00:48:09,100 --> 00:48:11,466 You know, Juraj Kraj ík got on that platform, 921 00:48:11,466 --> 00:48:12,866 he was already a racist. 922 00:48:12,866 --> 00:48:15,566 But he was molded and shaped 923 00:48:15,566 --> 00:48:17,866 by the veterans on that platform 924 00:48:17,866 --> 00:48:20,266 who were really looking for someone 925 00:48:20,266 --> 00:48:22,033 for the things that they wanted to do. 926 00:48:23,433 --> 00:48:25,266 Kraj ík was only 16, 927 00:48:25,266 --> 00:48:29,433 getting primed for the militant accelerationist cause, 928 00:48:29,433 --> 00:48:32,366 discussing the merits of other so-called saints 929 00:48:32,366 --> 00:48:33,733 with Slovakbro, 930 00:48:33,733 --> 00:48:37,866 including synagogue attacker John T. Earnest. 931 00:48:37,866 --> 00:48:43,433 There's conversations between Juraj Kraj ík and Pavol Be adi 932 00:48:43,433 --> 00:48:45,700 where Pavol Be adik says, 933 00:48:45,700 --> 00:48:48,933 "John Earnest down in San Diego, he messed up. 934 00:48:48,933 --> 00:48:50,433 "He didn't kill enough people. 935 00:48:50,433 --> 00:48:52,566 "And he was running 936 00:48:52,566 --> 00:48:55,100 from these Jewish people in the synagogue." 937 00:48:55,100 --> 00:48:57,466 He's, like, "That's a bad look-- that's bad optics. 938 00:48:57,466 --> 00:48:58,866 "You need to be better than that. 939 00:48:58,866 --> 00:49:01,800 Train, prepare, be a better killer." 940 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,833 These are conversations that he was having with Juraj Kraj ík. 941 00:49:05,833 --> 00:49:07,366 It was all about killing. 942 00:49:08,833 --> 00:49:10,566 Kraj ík was in. 943 00:49:10,566 --> 00:49:13,200 He soon began posting about potential targets 944 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,633 for terror attacks, 945 00:49:14,633 --> 00:49:18,700 spending hours in Slovakbro's chat. 946 00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:21,200 In one instance, posting his own photographs 947 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:25,866 of LGBTQ protesters at a climate rally. 948 00:49:25,866 --> 00:49:28,966 Amid the hundreds of posts we looked at, 949 00:49:28,966 --> 00:49:30,166 one popped out. 950 00:49:30,166 --> 00:49:31,300 This is it. 951 00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:33,200 This is the thing that (bleep) blew my... 952 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,933 This is what blew my mind. >> Yeah. 953 00:49:34,933 --> 00:49:36,266 >> THOMPSON: I'm scrolling through here, 954 00:49:36,266 --> 00:49:40,200 and then I see that the attacker has posted 955 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,666 about the place where the attack happened-- years before. 956 00:49:45,433 --> 00:49:49,300 This is his username talking about the place 957 00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:53,566 that Kraj ík was going to go shoot-- the cafe, the gay bar. 958 00:49:53,566 --> 00:49:56,866 And then there's all this discussion 959 00:49:56,866 --> 00:50:01,533 between Kraj ík and Slovakbro about attacking the place. 960 00:50:01,533 --> 00:50:02,866 And Slovakbro says, 961 00:50:02,866 --> 00:50:05,733 "I don't want to even use nail bombs with that joint. 962 00:50:05,733 --> 00:50:07,633 "What I want to do is so unprintable 963 00:50:07,633 --> 00:50:10,066 that hell is going to be preferable." 964 00:50:10,066 --> 00:50:12,066 And the guy we think is the attacker says, 965 00:50:12,066 --> 00:50:13,733 "Just saying it will instantly make 966 00:50:13,733 --> 00:50:17,400 a squad of federal agents appear behind you and arrest you." 967 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,200 So, this is from September. 968 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,333 Of 2019. 969 00:50:23,333 --> 00:50:26,300 He'd been thinking about it for years. 970 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,933 I brought the trove of Terrorgram posts to London... 971 00:50:35,933 --> 00:50:38,933 >> This is an amazing library of data. 972 00:50:38,933 --> 00:50:40,266 >> THOMPSON: ...where Pierre Vaux works 973 00:50:40,266 --> 00:50:42,433 as an open-source investigator. 974 00:50:42,433 --> 00:50:45,233 >> Once you start building up a huge amount of data, 975 00:50:45,233 --> 00:50:47,433 you need to start putting it into 976 00:50:47,433 --> 00:50:48,900 a different graphical setting, 977 00:50:48,900 --> 00:50:51,266 because otherwise, it becomes overwhelming to read. 978 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,466 >> THOMPSON: He created a database from our chat archives, 979 00:50:55,466 --> 00:50:58,133 as well as other sources, that showed how 980 00:50:58,133 --> 00:51:02,366 the Terrorgram network expanded in the years after 2019 981 00:51:02,366 --> 00:51:04,633 and how Slovakbro was central to it. 982 00:51:06,433 --> 00:51:08,366 >> This is Slovakbro, 983 00:51:08,366 --> 00:51:12,766 who ran a Telegram channel called Slovak's Siege Shack. 984 00:51:12,766 --> 00:51:14,133 And the chat room attached to that 985 00:51:14,133 --> 00:51:17,766 really had a sort of who's who of 986 00:51:17,766 --> 00:51:20,266 the Nazi scene at that time as members of it. 987 00:51:20,266 --> 00:51:22,733 >> THOMPSON: Oh, wow. >> So you can see his, like, 988 00:51:22,733 --> 00:51:25,700 emergence in 2019. 989 00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:27,866 And these are people mentioning him, 990 00:51:27,866 --> 00:51:30,266 and these are messages from him. 991 00:51:30,266 --> 00:51:32,566 >> THOMPSON: Yeah, interesting. 992 00:51:32,566 --> 00:51:35,433 >> Each of the lines here is a forward or a mention. 993 00:51:35,433 --> 00:51:38,466 That's one channel sending people to another channel. 994 00:51:38,466 --> 00:51:42,466 So this is a visualization that really shows us 995 00:51:42,466 --> 00:51:44,666 where these people are talking, 996 00:51:44,666 --> 00:51:47,400 often quite candidly, because of the perception 997 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,233 of privacy that Telegram brings. 998 00:51:49,233 --> 00:51:52,466 Especially as some of these are private groups. 999 00:51:52,466 --> 00:51:54,700 >> THOMPSON: He was able to find more evidence 1000 00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:58,300 of Kraj ík's activity in the Terrorgram community. 1001 00:51:58,300 --> 00:52:01,400 >> So Bobby Bowie had come up lots of times in this dataset 1002 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,533 because he was coming up as a member of these chats, 1003 00:52:03,533 --> 00:52:05,400 but we didn't know who he was. 1004 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,600 You're looking for what nodes turn up in networks 1005 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,733 over and over again. 1006 00:52:10,733 --> 00:52:13,366 So Kraj ík's account is Bob Bowie, 1007 00:52:13,366 --> 00:52:15,066 and we can expand that one. 1008 00:52:15,066 --> 00:52:16,833 He was a very active user 1009 00:52:16,833 --> 00:52:18,333 of all these channels. >> THOMPSON: Wow. 1010 00:52:18,333 --> 00:52:20,100 >> I've got another 40 channels he was in. 1011 00:52:20,100 --> 00:52:22,800 >> THOMPSON: Holy (bleep). These are all chats? 1012 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,100 >> Yep. 1013 00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:26,833 >> THOMPSON: Oh, wow. 1014 00:52:26,833 --> 00:52:28,900 So I knew he was in 14 Words. 1015 00:52:28,900 --> 00:52:30,866 He's in some, like, kind of Q stuff. 1016 00:52:30,866 --> 00:52:32,033 He's in some, like, 1017 00:52:32,033 --> 00:52:33,566 trucker stuff. >> Yeah, like this. 1018 00:52:33,566 --> 00:52:37,333 >> THOMPSON: But, like, that's a lot more than I knew. 1019 00:52:37,333 --> 00:52:39,200 >> Especially, it looks like Slovakbro 1020 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,166 was bringing him into his much smaller chats. 1021 00:52:42,166 --> 00:52:43,933 >> THOMPSON: What's really clear now 1022 00:52:43,933 --> 00:52:45,866 is that Slovakbro had been trying for years 1023 00:52:45,866 --> 00:52:48,200 to influence people to engage in terrorism. 1024 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:49,700 And he was successful. 1025 00:52:49,700 --> 00:52:52,100 Juraj Kraj ík is his product. 1026 00:52:52,100 --> 00:52:55,033 Juraj Kraj ík is somebody that he influenced. 1027 00:53:03,833 --> 00:53:06,933 We took our reporting on Slovakbro and Juraj Kraj ík 1028 00:53:06,933 --> 00:53:09,700 to Slovak authorities. 1029 00:53:09,700 --> 00:53:12,700 It's really become clear to me that, uh, 1030 00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:15,466 Juraj Kraj ík and Slovakbro 1031 00:53:15,466 --> 00:53:19,466 had ongoing conversations for years. 1032 00:53:19,466 --> 00:53:22,300 >> But, you know, for us, this communication was, uh, 1033 00:53:22,300 --> 00:53:25,100 not a normal communication. 1034 00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:26,966 >> THOMPSON: Peter Kysel is the prosecutor 1035 00:53:26,966 --> 00:53:30,233 who oversaw the investigation into Slovakbro. 1036 00:53:30,233 --> 00:53:33,566 But he said he'd never seen the 2019 messages 1037 00:53:33,566 --> 00:53:35,833 between the two men. >> The fact is 1038 00:53:35,833 --> 00:53:39,166 that we were not aware of these communications. 1039 00:53:39,166 --> 00:53:40,900 The prosecutional office 1040 00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:42,600 was not aware about this communication. 1041 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:43,733 >> THOMPSON: You were surprised 1042 00:53:43,733 --> 00:53:45,400 when you learned that they were having 1043 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,200 these extensive conversations? >> Right, right, yes. 1044 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,166 Yeah, because there was a communication in 2019, 1045 00:53:51,166 --> 00:53:53,066 and the attack was in 2022. 1046 00:53:53,066 --> 00:53:55,000 So, there was a really, gap. 1047 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,866 >> THOMPSON: Yeah, and I believe 1048 00:53:56,866 --> 00:54:00,000 that that connection persisted past 2019. 1049 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,233 But it seems to me like 1050 00:54:01,233 --> 00:54:05,933 Slovakbro lied to you about his level of connection. 1051 00:54:05,933 --> 00:54:07,400 >> Yeah, it's possible. 1052 00:54:11,066 --> 00:54:14,700 >> THOMPSON: Throughout 2020, Terrorgram was evolving 1053 00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:16,833 from a loose network of accounts 1054 00:54:16,833 --> 00:54:19,666 into a prolific propaganda machine 1055 00:54:19,666 --> 00:54:23,133 made up of dozens of accelerationist channels, 1056 00:54:23,133 --> 00:54:26,066 with Slovakbro at its center. 1057 00:54:26,066 --> 00:54:28,500 >> Hey, everybody, and welcome to HateLab. 1058 00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:31,033 All right, Slovakbro has, is joining us 1059 00:54:31,033 --> 00:54:32,633 for the very first time on HateLab. 1060 00:54:32,633 --> 00:54:37,400 >> THOMPSON: That year, Pavol Be adik, as Slovakbro, 1061 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,600 was interviewed on a Terrorgram-related podcast. 1062 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,533 >> (Slovakbro): 1063 00:54:54,100 --> 00:54:56,133 >> THOMPSON: Law enforcement in the U.S. and abroad 1064 00:54:56,133 --> 00:54:58,066 was taking notice. 1065 00:54:58,066 --> 00:55:00,966 >> What's interesting about this collective 1066 00:55:00,966 --> 00:55:04,200 is how transnational it is, 1067 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,800 and how interconnected some of the players are in it. 1068 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,766 >> THOMPSON: Rebecca Weiner is deputy commissioner 1069 00:55:10,766 --> 00:55:15,033 for intelligence and counterterrorism at the NYPD. 1070 00:55:15,033 --> 00:55:17,033 Her unit was monitoring Terrorgram 1071 00:55:17,033 --> 00:55:20,666 as it stepped up production of extremist content. 1072 00:55:20,666 --> 00:55:26,033 >> The influence of Slovakbro in this world was quite strong, 1073 00:55:26,033 --> 00:55:29,933 not just around Terrorgram Collective 1074 00:55:29,933 --> 00:55:32,166 and propaganda output, 1075 00:55:32,166 --> 00:55:35,933 but also encouraging people to take next steps into action. 1076 00:55:35,933 --> 00:55:40,533 >> (Slovakbro): 1077 00:55:40,533 --> 00:55:42,700 >> Yeah, Sieg Heil, brother. >> (Slovakbro): 1078 00:55:42,700 --> 00:55:44,633 >> All right, cool. >> (Slovakbro): 1079 00:55:46,666 --> 00:55:49,433 >> THOMPSON: By 2021, Slovakbro and others 1080 00:55:49,433 --> 00:55:53,033 had begun calling themselves the Terrorgram Collective 1081 00:55:53,033 --> 00:55:57,033 and released an official publication under the new name. 1082 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,133 >> This was the first time that we started to see 1083 00:56:01,133 --> 00:56:02,666 the bringing together of 1084 00:56:02,666 --> 00:56:03,833 some of the ideological output 1085 00:56:03,833 --> 00:56:06,533 of saints culture, uh, and of 1086 00:56:06,533 --> 00:56:08,133 the sort of broader aesthetic 1087 00:56:08,133 --> 00:56:09,900 of, of the Terrorgram Collective 1088 00:56:09,900 --> 00:56:11,900 with specific instructional material 1089 00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:15,033 that was calling for attacks against specific groups 1090 00:56:15,033 --> 00:56:16,866 and really, uh, generating 1091 00:56:16,866 --> 00:56:18,966 a clearer violent extremist ideology. 1092 00:56:20,366 --> 00:56:22,633 >> THOMPSON: It was posted as a PDF, 1093 00:56:22,633 --> 00:56:25,800 designed to be shared widely. 1094 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,966 More official Terrorgram publications would follow. 1095 00:56:30,533 --> 00:56:31,866 >> So you have 1096 00:56:31,866 --> 00:56:34,500 the sanctification of martyrs who've come before, 1097 00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:38,866 combined with the ideology that you see at play 1098 00:56:38,866 --> 00:56:40,600 in many of these manifestos, 1099 00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:45,800 neo-Nazi propaganda, targeting guidance and tactical guidance, 1100 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,566 how to make certain kinds of explosives, 1101 00:56:49,566 --> 00:56:52,000 as well as who you might want to target. 1102 00:56:53,333 --> 00:56:55,833 >> THOMPSON: In October 2021, a new series 1103 00:56:55,833 --> 00:56:58,666 of Terrorgram publications began to emerge 1104 00:56:58,666 --> 00:57:00,833 called "The List": 1105 00:57:00,833 --> 00:57:03,533 alleged assassination targets with addresses, 1106 00:57:03,533 --> 00:57:08,000 maps of their homes, and rationales for killing. 1107 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,933 And it's basically just this ongoing hit list 1108 00:57:11,933 --> 00:57:14,133 of dozens and dozens of people-- 1109 00:57:14,133 --> 00:57:16,333 American corporate leaders, 1110 00:57:16,333 --> 00:57:21,766 government officials, academics, and others. 1111 00:57:21,766 --> 00:57:24,400 Telegram tried to shut down user accounts 1112 00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,966 that were posting "The List." 1113 00:57:25,966 --> 00:57:27,533 In its statement to us, 1114 00:57:27,533 --> 00:57:30,233 the company said it had been removing groups and channels 1115 00:57:30,233 --> 00:57:33,666 using the Terrorgram name since it first surfaced, 1116 00:57:33,666 --> 00:57:36,366 and that it was harder for criminals to open accounts 1117 00:57:36,366 --> 00:57:39,766 on Telegram than other platforms. 1118 00:57:41,166 --> 00:57:44,966 But in many cases, we saw in the archived posts 1119 00:57:44,966 --> 00:57:49,033 that users had just opened new accounts and new channels 1120 00:57:49,033 --> 00:57:52,566 and continued posting about assassinations. 1121 00:57:52,566 --> 00:57:54,300 >> The nature of Telegram as an app 1122 00:57:54,300 --> 00:57:58,133 is that many of the channels are highly ephemeral in nature. 1123 00:57:58,133 --> 00:58:01,300 They come and go and are able to be easily replaced. 1124 00:58:01,300 --> 00:58:03,933 It's very easy to sidestep enforcement attempts that, 1125 00:58:03,933 --> 00:58:06,666 that really try to use a Whac-a-Mole approach 1126 00:58:06,666 --> 00:58:08,600 to a takedown. 1127 00:58:14,266 --> 00:58:15,766 >> THOMPSON: The targeting of Americans 1128 00:58:15,766 --> 00:58:18,566 triggered an international criminal investigation, 1129 00:58:18,566 --> 00:58:22,600 involving law enforcement in the U.S. and Europe. 1130 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,600 In May 2022, Slovakbro was arrested 1131 00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,233 and was ultimately sentenced 1132 00:58:28,233 --> 00:58:30,166 to six years in prison 1133 00:58:30,166 --> 00:58:31,900 for more than 100 terrorism offenses. 1134 00:58:36,066 --> 00:58:39,500 But the Terrorgram Collective lived on. 1135 00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:42,533 >> Terrorgram is not reliant on any one individual 1136 00:58:42,533 --> 00:58:45,366 or entity to make it what it is. 1137 00:58:45,366 --> 00:58:51,333 What we often see is, these leaders in the Terrorgram space 1138 00:58:51,333 --> 00:58:52,466 come and go. 1139 00:58:52,466 --> 00:58:54,333 They fall off, they build back brands, 1140 00:58:54,333 --> 00:58:57,133 they gain prominence, they lose prominence. 1141 00:58:57,133 --> 00:58:59,066 It's very much a fluid environment, 1142 00:58:59,066 --> 00:59:02,100 where no one person owns a commanding stake of it. 1143 00:59:02,100 --> 00:59:04,600 >> THOMPSON: Researcher Matt Kriner has studied 1144 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,066 how other Terrorgram leaders emerged 1145 00:59:07,066 --> 00:59:09,700 after the arrest of Slovakbro, 1146 00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:13,733 including one known as MissGorehound. 1147 00:59:13,733 --> 00:59:16,300 >> MissGorehound is one of the aliases that we know to be 1148 00:59:16,300 --> 00:59:18,766 a central figure within the Terrorgram ecosystem. 1149 00:59:18,766 --> 00:59:21,166 She has been a strong proponent 1150 00:59:21,166 --> 00:59:23,333 of the development of the Terrorgram publications, 1151 00:59:23,333 --> 00:59:26,366 ran a number of channels that had direct influence 1152 00:59:26,366 --> 00:59:28,866 and ownership over the saints culture. 1153 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,700 MissGorehound picked that up and said, "This is a model. 1154 00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:35,266 "We can actually turn this into a very consolidated 1155 00:59:35,266 --> 00:59:38,200 "pipeline for radicalization and mobilization of individuals 1156 00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,133 to carry out more terrorist attacks." 1157 00:59:45,333 --> 00:59:48,333 >> So there's a lot of overlap between these people. 1158 00:59:48,333 --> 00:59:51,766 MissGorehound, otherwise known as RWBC, 1159 00:59:51,766 --> 00:59:53,800 standing for Right-Wing Book Club, 1160 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,633 who runs another range of Telegram channels 1161 00:59:56,633 --> 00:59:58,100 in the Terrorgram network. 1162 00:59:58,100 --> 01:00:00,333 We can select that, and we can see 1163 01:00:00,333 --> 01:00:02,966 that she's got her Cat Enjoyers Anonymous channel. 1164 01:00:02,966 --> 01:00:04,866 She's got the Right-Wing Book Club one. 1165 01:00:04,866 --> 01:00:09,600 She's got Ryder 88, Ryder Returns, Miss Gore 88. 1166 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,300 Now, when we highlight these groups, 1167 01:00:12,300 --> 01:00:16,766 again, we get a lot of shared channels with MissGorehound. 1168 01:00:16,766 --> 01:00:19,666 This is a closed chat, 1169 01:00:19,666 --> 01:00:23,300 but these individuals are really active in it. 1170 01:00:23,300 --> 01:00:26,566 >> THOMPSON: The database showed that by mid-2022, 1171 01:00:26,566 --> 01:00:29,166 Juraj Kraj ík was a member of a group chat 1172 01:00:29,166 --> 01:00:30,766 run by MissGorehound. 1173 01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:34,566 >> If you look at someone like MissGorehound, 1174 01:00:34,566 --> 01:00:36,000 they're super-connected 1175 01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,133 because they're creating loads of channels, 1176 01:00:38,133 --> 01:00:39,900 and they're infiltrating loads of channels. 1177 01:00:39,900 --> 01:00:42,666 Whereas someone like Kraj ík 1178 01:00:42,666 --> 01:00:44,733 are the opposite of that, in a way. 1179 01:00:44,733 --> 01:00:47,000 They're just really desperate to get into this. 1180 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:52,333 They've found a wonderful world of friendly, like-minded people 1181 01:00:52,333 --> 01:00:55,300 with their funny memes that they can consume. 1182 01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:56,600 And, you know, it gives them a sense 1183 01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,200 of camaraderie and belonging. 1184 01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,600 >> THOMPSON: What you see in, in the chats that I've read 1185 01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:05,333 is that he's getting ideas from the older people. 1186 01:01:05,333 --> 01:01:09,666 He's expressing his desire to target specific targets. 1187 01:01:09,666 --> 01:01:12,666 And he's being pushed in this very violent direction, 1188 01:01:12,666 --> 01:01:15,500 and also this direction of sort of self-immolation, 1189 01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:18,900 that it's heroic to go and kill, and then kill yourself. 1190 01:01:21,533 --> 01:01:26,900 MissGorehound is alleged to be this woman: Dallas Erin Humber. 1191 01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:29,766 She's pleaded not guilty to terrorism charges 1192 01:01:29,766 --> 01:01:33,633 and is in jail awaiting trial. 1193 01:01:33,633 --> 01:01:36,733 Her identity was originally exposed and posted online 1194 01:01:36,733 --> 01:01:38,366 by a group of activists. 1195 01:01:38,366 --> 01:01:42,300 >> (voice altered): 1196 01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:44,533 >> THOMPSON: One of them agreed to speak to us 1197 01:01:44,533 --> 01:01:46,200 if we granted them anonymity. 1198 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,466 Tell me about Dallas and her life. 1199 01:01:49,466 --> 01:02:00,100 >> (voice altered): 1200 01:02:00,100 --> 01:02:02,266 >> THOMPSON: What was her role in the Terrorgram Collective, 1201 01:02:02,266 --> 01:02:04,766 from what you can tell? 1202 01:02:04,766 --> 01:02:13,166 >> (voice altered): 1203 01:02:13,166 --> 01:02:15,633 >> THOMPSON: It was a new kind of propaganda-- 1204 01:02:15,633 --> 01:02:17,966 manifesto audiobooks. 1205 01:02:20,133 --> 01:02:25,933 >> (voice altered): 1206 01:02:25,933 --> 01:02:28,166 >> "Mass immigration will disenfranchise us, 1207 01:02:28,166 --> 01:02:31,033 "subvert our nations, destroy our communities... 1208 01:02:31,033 --> 01:02:33,900 >> THOMPSON: The shooter audiobooks became a signature. 1209 01:02:33,900 --> 01:02:36,700 >> ...long before low fertility rates ever could." 1210 01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:39,133 >> THOMPSON: The audiobooks were posted to 1211 01:02:39,133 --> 01:02:41,433 Terrorgram channels linked to her. 1212 01:02:41,433 --> 01:02:42,533 How important 1213 01:02:42,533 --> 01:02:45,733 would you say she was 1214 01:02:45,733 --> 01:02:49,200 in the Terrorgram Collective, in the Terrorgram scene? 1215 01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:53,133 >> (voice altered): 1216 01:03:18,533 --> 01:03:20,766 >> THOMPSON: We could see in the trove of Terrorgram chats 1217 01:03:20,766 --> 01:03:22,500 that MissGorehound was working with 1218 01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:24,500 another prolific propagandist 1219 01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:27,800 with the username Ban This Channel, or BTC. 1220 01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:33,733 >> We can zoom in on an individual, 1221 01:03:33,733 --> 01:03:35,200 so here we've got BTC, 1222 01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:39,300 which is the alias behind several Telegram channels, 1223 01:03:39,300 --> 01:03:41,233 which all have similar initials. 1224 01:03:41,233 --> 01:03:42,400 So, Bowl Turds Coin, 1225 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,866 Ban This Channel, and Big (bleep) Chica. 1226 01:03:45,866 --> 01:03:49,666 Now, BTC is a super-spreader 1227 01:03:49,666 --> 01:03:52,900 in terms of Telegram group membership. 1228 01:03:52,900 --> 01:03:57,700 ♪ ♪ 1229 01:03:57,700 --> 01:03:58,866 >> BANDLER: BTC was the white whale 1230 01:03:58,866 --> 01:04:01,000 of the Terrorgram Collective. 1231 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,900 Everyone knew about his posts, 1232 01:04:04,900 --> 01:04:06,533 but no one knew who he was. 1233 01:04:06,533 --> 01:04:09,133 And this, for us, was a big puzzle. 1234 01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,533 So BTC first emerged on YouTube, 1235 01:04:14,533 --> 01:04:17,866 and his shtick was creating content 1236 01:04:17,866 --> 01:04:20,800 that was controversial enough to get him banned. 1237 01:04:21,766 --> 01:04:23,200 He created dozens 1238 01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:26,900 of channels and groups on Telegram. 1239 01:04:29,133 --> 01:04:31,833 >> I wasn't sure whether BTC was one person, 1240 01:04:31,833 --> 01:04:32,833 whether it was a, 1241 01:04:32,833 --> 01:04:33,866 maybe a small group of people 1242 01:04:33,866 --> 01:04:34,866 that were putting these, 1243 01:04:34,866 --> 01:04:35,800 these videos together. 1244 01:04:39,966 --> 01:04:41,766 >> BANDLER: When did you first become aware of BTC? 1245 01:04:41,766 --> 01:04:43,900 >> I first became aware of BTC 1246 01:04:43,900 --> 01:04:47,466 through a specific video that BTC produced 1247 01:04:47,466 --> 01:04:49,366 called "The Last Battle," 1248 01:04:49,366 --> 01:04:50,833 on the Telegram channel that I was monitoring. 1249 01:04:50,833 --> 01:04:53,433 And then started seeing other videos 1250 01:04:53,433 --> 01:04:56,166 circulating on Telegram 1251 01:04:56,166 --> 01:04:59,900 that were also, allegedly, made by this BTC. 1252 01:04:59,900 --> 01:05:02,166 >> We're building, we're organizing... 1253 01:05:02,166 --> 01:05:04,733 >> They serve the purpose of propaganda to do 1254 01:05:04,733 --> 01:05:07,833 things like recruit new people and sustain members 1255 01:05:07,833 --> 01:05:09,933 and, in this case, encouraging violence. 1256 01:05:09,933 --> 01:05:11,600 ♪ ♪ 1257 01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,233 >> It's about to be a white boy summer. 1258 01:05:14,233 --> 01:05:17,800 >> THOMPSON: BTC posted around 120 videos, 1259 01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:22,400 many of them with graphic racist and anti-Semitic violence, 1260 01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,000 clips of the Christchurch attack video, 1261 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,233 and homophobic imagery. 1262 01:05:28,966 --> 01:05:31,333 Terrorgram's most infamous video 1263 01:05:31,333 --> 01:05:34,666 was a BTC-MissGorehound collaboration. 1264 01:05:34,666 --> 01:05:37,633 ♪ ♪ 1265 01:05:37,633 --> 01:05:39,366 >> We know that the narrator is Dallas Humber. 1266 01:05:39,366 --> 01:05:42,000 >> 105 white men and women of action have... 1267 01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:43,300 >> So, "White Terror" 1268 01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:45,633 is meant for somebody who's been indoctrinated, 1269 01:05:45,633 --> 01:05:47,033 and the push is, 1270 01:05:47,033 --> 01:05:48,933 "If you do commit an act of violence, 1271 01:05:48,933 --> 01:05:50,466 "this is what you can expect. 1272 01:05:50,466 --> 01:05:51,933 You will be celebrated, too." 1273 01:05:51,933 --> 01:05:56,600 ♪ ♪ 1274 01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,700 >> Breaking news right now: the Justice Department 1275 01:06:00,700 --> 01:06:02,366 charging two people, saying that they were leading 1276 01:06:02,366 --> 01:06:04,333 a white supremacist group 1277 01:06:04,333 --> 01:06:07,133 that wanted to ignite a race war... 1278 01:06:07,133 --> 01:06:09,366 >> THOMPSON: In September 2024, 1279 01:06:09,366 --> 01:06:12,300 the mystery of BTC's identity was solved. 1280 01:06:13,566 --> 01:06:16,266 >> The indictment charges in 15 counts... 1281 01:06:16,266 --> 01:06:17,666 >> THOMPSON: Federal prosecutors announced 1282 01:06:17,666 --> 01:06:19,566 they had arrested two leaders 1283 01:06:19,566 --> 01:06:21,433 of the Terrorgram Collective. 1284 01:06:22,900 --> 01:06:25,333 One was Dallas Humber. 1285 01:06:25,333 --> 01:06:29,533 The other, a 37-year-old man named Matthew Allison. 1286 01:06:29,533 --> 01:06:31,266 >> BANDLER: We were very familiar 1287 01:06:31,266 --> 01:06:33,266 with Dallas Humber. 1288 01:06:33,266 --> 01:06:34,766 The second person was 1289 01:06:34,766 --> 01:06:38,933 a 37-year-old we'd never heard of. 1290 01:06:38,933 --> 01:06:42,700 But as we talked with researchers over the next day, 1291 01:06:42,700 --> 01:06:46,033 it became pretty clear to us that Matt Allison 1292 01:06:46,033 --> 01:06:48,433 was none other than BTC. 1293 01:06:51,333 --> 01:06:53,266 >> THOMPSON: Allison lived in Boise, Idaho. 1294 01:06:53,266 --> 01:06:57,000 ♪ ♪ 1295 01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,233 >> BANDLER: We wanted to find out who Matt Allison really was. 1296 01:07:01,366 --> 01:07:03,700 We went to Boise and started talking with 1297 01:07:03,700 --> 01:07:08,166 people who knew Matt Allison in the real world. 1298 01:07:08,166 --> 01:07:09,266 (knock at door) 1299 01:07:09,266 --> 01:07:11,433 (door opens) Hi, I'm James Bandler. 1300 01:07:11,433 --> 01:07:13,266 Are you a friend of Allison's, Mr. Allison's? 1301 01:07:13,266 --> 01:07:16,800 And the story that we unraveled 1302 01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:18,933 was, frankly, very disturbing, 1303 01:07:18,933 --> 01:07:21,800 because this man was living a complete double life. 1304 01:07:24,566 --> 01:07:26,200 >> THOMPSON: We learned that in public, 1305 01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,200 Matthew Allison was an aspiring DJ 1306 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,100 who worked menial jobs and partied with friends 1307 01:07:31,100 --> 01:07:34,300 in the local electronic dance music community. 1308 01:07:34,300 --> 01:07:35,500 >> Oh, it's a panda. 1309 01:07:35,500 --> 01:07:37,466 Yo! What's happening? 1310 01:07:37,466 --> 01:07:39,466 >> (laughing) 1311 01:07:39,466 --> 01:07:40,966 >> THOMPSON: But federal investigators say 1312 01:07:40,966 --> 01:07:42,900 that in private, he was helping run 1313 01:07:42,900 --> 01:07:44,900 the Terrorgram Collective. 1314 01:07:44,900 --> 01:07:47,633 >> BANDLER: We quickly got a picture of a person 1315 01:07:47,633 --> 01:07:49,166 who was very well-liked, 1316 01:07:49,166 --> 01:07:54,100 who hung out with a very multicultural group of friends, 1317 01:07:54,100 --> 01:07:56,966 and a person who was also a gay man. 1318 01:07:58,433 --> 01:08:01,666 So, while he was living 1319 01:08:01,666 --> 01:08:04,566 the life of a gay man in Boise, 1320 01:08:04,566 --> 01:08:07,233 on Telegram, he was making posts 1321 01:08:07,233 --> 01:08:11,266 celebrating the murders of gay people in Bratislava. 1322 01:08:11,266 --> 01:08:16,600 ♪ ♪ 1323 01:08:23,866 --> 01:08:26,666 >> THOMPSON: Matthew Allison agreed to talk to James, 1324 01:08:26,666 --> 01:08:28,833 against the advice of his lawyer. 1325 01:08:31,666 --> 01:08:34,500 No cameras were allowed in the jail. 1326 01:08:37,433 --> 01:08:40,333 (phone ringing) 1327 01:08:40,333 --> 01:08:43,933 After the interview, James called me. 1328 01:08:43,933 --> 01:08:46,133 Hey, so what happened? 1329 01:08:46,133 --> 01:08:47,900 >> BANDLER: So, he came out, 1330 01:08:47,900 --> 01:08:51,000 he's exactly like we were told. 1331 01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,700 Tall, rangy, skinny guy. 1332 01:08:53,700 --> 01:08:55,033 He confirmed, 1333 01:08:55,033 --> 01:08:57,733 he said he didn't confess, like, to the crimes, 1334 01:08:57,733 --> 01:09:02,000 he just confessed to being BTC to the FBI. 1335 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:05,066 So he said he urged people to just be legal on the channel 1336 01:09:05,066 --> 01:09:07,566 and to not actually 1337 01:09:07,566 --> 01:09:10,600 incite actual violent acts. 1338 01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:11,700 He chalks it up 1339 01:09:11,700 --> 01:09:13,133 to being an artist. 1340 01:09:13,133 --> 01:09:15,066 "This is my free expression, I'm an artist," 1341 01:09:15,066 --> 01:09:17,433 and he's really proud of a lot of his work. 1342 01:09:17,433 --> 01:09:19,600 >> THOMPSON: So he's not contrite, 1343 01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,333 he's not taking it back, he's not... 1344 01:09:21,333 --> 01:09:22,666 >> BANDLER: No, no, no. 1345 01:09:22,666 --> 01:09:25,833 I don't think he's contrite at all, um, 1346 01:09:25,833 --> 01:09:27,900 about it, and I think he's going to push 1347 01:09:27,900 --> 01:09:32,700 a hardcore free speech, you know, case on it if he can. 1348 01:09:32,700 --> 01:09:35,900 He described himself as a video artist, 1349 01:09:35,900 --> 01:09:40,133 a person who was creating art and content 1350 01:09:40,133 --> 01:09:42,733 that was protected under the First Amendment. 1351 01:09:42,733 --> 01:09:44,933 He denied being a terrorist. 1352 01:09:44,933 --> 01:09:50,066 He denied wanting to incite people to commit murder. 1353 01:09:50,066 --> 01:09:53,800 He admitted that he was an ethno-nationalist. 1354 01:09:55,233 --> 01:09:57,200 And he says, "I believe white people 1355 01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,600 need to band together," meaning to "tribe up." 1356 01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,033 "Tribe up" was how he put it. 1357 01:10:02,033 --> 01:10:04,500 And he called the indictment bull(bleep). 1358 01:10:04,500 --> 01:10:08,166 ♪ ♪ 1359 01:10:08,166 --> 01:10:09,566 >> THOMPSON: Prosecutors allege 1360 01:10:09,566 --> 01:10:11,433 that Dallas Humber and Matthew Allison 1361 01:10:11,433 --> 01:10:13,200 were both in direct contact 1362 01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:16,133 with the Bratislava shooter, Juraj Kraj ík, 1363 01:10:16,133 --> 01:10:18,733 in the year before his attack. 1364 01:10:18,733 --> 01:10:21,033 The indictment accuses Humber 1365 01:10:21,033 --> 01:10:22,833 of pushing a message in her posts: 1366 01:10:22,833 --> 01:10:25,566 to become a Terrorgram saint, 1367 01:10:25,566 --> 01:10:29,600 you had to be white and kill those deemed inferior. 1368 01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,100 The mission was clear: 1369 01:10:32,100 --> 01:10:35,633 to indoctrinate younger people on Terrorgram. 1370 01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:39,166 She wrote about one user: 1371 01:10:39,166 --> 01:10:40,800 "He's, like, 18 years old 1372 01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,100 "and seems very impressionable. 1373 01:10:43,100 --> 01:10:45,133 I'm trying to radicalize him." 1374 01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,166 I found posts from July 2022 where 1375 01:10:49,166 --> 01:10:51,633 she was promoting a new Terrorgram publication. 1376 01:10:52,933 --> 01:10:54,533 Soon after its release, 1377 01:10:54,533 --> 01:10:57,100 Juraj Kraj ík was talking to her about it. 1378 01:10:57,100 --> 01:10:58,433 Look at this. 1379 01:10:58,433 --> 01:11:00,666 He says, "Just finished reading (bleep). 1380 01:11:00,666 --> 01:11:01,966 It's excellent." 1381 01:11:01,966 --> 01:11:03,933 And then this is the U.S. person 1382 01:11:03,933 --> 01:11:05,966 who's the Terrorgrammer, Dallas. 1383 01:11:05,966 --> 01:11:08,300 And it says, "I haven't finished reading it yet, 1384 01:11:08,300 --> 01:11:11,066 but it's a literary and artistic masterpiece." 1385 01:11:11,066 --> 01:11:14,266 And she says, "What were some of your favorite passages?" 1386 01:11:16,566 --> 01:11:19,300 I know that Juraj Kraj ík and Dallas Humber 1387 01:11:19,300 --> 01:11:20,333 were in contact. 1388 01:11:20,333 --> 01:11:22,566 And I know that Dallas Humber 1389 01:11:22,566 --> 01:11:25,100 was repeatedly encouraging 1390 01:11:25,100 --> 01:11:28,400 Kraj ík to engage in terrorism and 1391 01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,866 cheerleading for terrorism-- that's her own words. 1392 01:11:30,866 --> 01:11:32,333 She says, "I love those, too. 1393 01:11:32,333 --> 01:11:34,500 "I hope the next saints out there 1394 01:11:34,500 --> 01:11:36,700 read those passages and feel inspired." 1395 01:11:36,700 --> 01:11:38,133 >> Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. >> Mm-hmm. 1396 01:11:41,833 --> 01:11:43,733 >> THOMPSON: At the same time, 1397 01:11:43,733 --> 01:11:44,966 Juraj Kraj ík had started posting 1398 01:11:44,966 --> 01:11:46,900 on a private Twitter channel. 1399 01:11:46,900 --> 01:11:48,366 That's the Twitter? >> Yeah. 1400 01:11:48,366 --> 01:11:50,566 We have all the screenshots. 1401 01:11:50,566 --> 01:11:53,233 >> THOMPSON: It was the diary of 1402 01:11:53,233 --> 01:11:56,233 a fully radicalized accelerationist. 1403 01:11:56,233 --> 01:11:59,266 >> "We find ourselves in a critical situation. 1404 01:11:59,266 --> 01:12:01,966 "We will need to radically alter the course of history, 1405 01:12:01,966 --> 01:12:05,066 and only radical action can do that." 1406 01:12:05,066 --> 01:12:07,300 >> THOMPSON: In mid-August 2022, 1407 01:12:07,300 --> 01:12:10,300 Kraj ík starts to do reconnaissance. 1408 01:12:10,300 --> 01:12:14,033 He posts about targeting the prime minister of Slovakia. 1409 01:12:14,033 --> 01:12:15,966 >> "#EduardHeger, 1410 01:12:15,966 --> 01:12:18,066 "#NTMA0315, 1411 01:12:18,066 --> 01:12:19,933 test and preparation." 1412 01:12:21,666 --> 01:12:24,600 >> There were several targets. 1413 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,400 The perpetrator 1414 01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,100 made a list of targets based on 1415 01:12:29,100 --> 01:12:32,200 the difficulty to commit a successful attack. 1416 01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,800 >> THOMPSON: Jakub Gajdo was a counter-terrorism official 1417 01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,566 assigned to the Kraj ík case. 1418 01:12:38,566 --> 01:12:39,900 >> Preparing on the attack, 1419 01:12:39,900 --> 01:12:42,466 he took several pictures of the potential targets, 1420 01:12:42,466 --> 01:12:45,500 the highest-ranked place of hitting the prime minister. 1421 01:12:45,500 --> 01:12:47,666 And I think it's this one. 1422 01:12:47,666 --> 01:12:50,033 Because you can identify the bush, 1423 01:12:50,033 --> 01:12:51,600 and identify the two windows 1424 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:53,333 that are on the picture, actually. 1425 01:12:53,333 --> 01:12:55,200 >> THOMPSON: Oh, yeah. It looks like it. 1426 01:12:56,466 --> 01:12:57,533 (shutter clicking) 1427 01:12:57,533 --> 01:12:59,300 August 15. 1428 01:12:59,300 --> 01:13:01,400 Kraj ík tweets three selfies 1429 01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,266 in front of the home of the prime minister, 1430 01:13:03,266 --> 01:13:05,500 along with the caption... 1431 01:13:05,500 --> 01:13:08,033 >> "Just taking a look at some places." 1432 01:13:08,033 --> 01:13:10,666 >> In his rankings of the targets, 1433 01:13:10,666 --> 01:13:13,700 an attack on a Jewish community should follow. 1434 01:13:13,700 --> 01:13:15,233 >> THOMPSON: Later that day, 1435 01:13:15,233 --> 01:13:17,500 Kraj ík tweets sarcastically... 1436 01:13:17,500 --> 01:13:21,833 >> "As a proud LGBTQIAP+ Jew, I would like you all 1437 01:13:21,833 --> 01:13:24,333 "to join me at the Chabad office today, 1438 01:13:24,333 --> 01:13:29,133 before we proceed to the LGBTQIAP+ bar for a drink." 1439 01:13:29,133 --> 01:13:32,166 >> THOMPSON: Attached are two more selfies: 1440 01:13:32,166 --> 01:13:34,866 one in front of a Jewish community center, 1441 01:13:34,866 --> 01:13:36,800 the other in front of his final target, 1442 01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,666 the Tepláre bar. 1443 01:13:40,700 --> 01:13:41,966 In the coming weeks, 1444 01:13:41,966 --> 01:13:45,266 his tweets reflect his commitment to violence. 1445 01:13:45,266 --> 01:13:47,466 >> "I don't expect to make it. 1446 01:13:47,466 --> 01:13:50,566 In all likelihood, I will die in the course of the operation." 1447 01:13:50,566 --> 01:13:52,133 >> THOMPSON: September 6. 1448 01:13:52,133 --> 01:13:56,033 >> "I want to damage the System to the best of my abilities." 1449 01:13:56,033 --> 01:13:57,466 >> THOMPSON: September 16. 1450 01:13:57,466 --> 01:13:59,266 >> "Accelerationism means 1451 01:13:59,266 --> 01:14:01,500 helping the System collapse faster." 1452 01:14:01,500 --> 01:14:02,766 >> THOMPSON: October 10. 1453 01:14:02,766 --> 01:14:05,233 >> "People who I consider heroes and role models: 1454 01:14:05,233 --> 01:14:08,500 Brenton Tarrant and John T. Earnest." 1455 01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:10,400 >> THOMPSON: And finally, 1456 01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,300 October 11. 1457 01:14:12,300 --> 01:14:14,100 >> "I have made my decision." 1458 01:14:18,300 --> 01:14:21,666 ♪ ♪ 1459 01:14:25,533 --> 01:14:27,200 >> THOMPSON: The next night, 1460 01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:30,233 when Kraj ík was on the run after his attack, 1461 01:14:30,233 --> 01:14:33,033 U.S. prosecutors say he sent a direct message 1462 01:14:33,033 --> 01:14:35,400 to Matthew Allison-- BTC. 1463 01:14:36,900 --> 01:14:38,266 He wrote: 1464 01:14:38,266 --> 01:14:41,266 "Not sure how much time I have, but it's happening." 1465 01:14:42,566 --> 01:14:46,400 They allege he also sent Allison his manifesto. 1466 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,700 It was posted on several accounts linked to BTC. 1467 01:14:51,133 --> 01:14:54,333 MissGorehound's accounts also announced the news. 1468 01:14:54,333 --> 01:14:57,166 Juraj Kraj ík was hailed as 1469 01:14:57,166 --> 01:14:59,100 "Terrorgram's very first saint." 1470 01:14:59,100 --> 01:15:01,500 >> We mourn Saint Kraj ík... 1471 01:15:01,500 --> 01:15:02,733 >> THOMPSON: A few days later, 1472 01:15:02,733 --> 01:15:06,066 she released the manifesto as an audiobook. 1473 01:15:06,066 --> 01:15:07,933 >> His manifesto is absolute (bleep)ing fire. 1474 01:15:07,933 --> 01:15:09,333 >> THOMPSON: Here was someone that they had 1475 01:15:09,333 --> 01:15:11,666 successfully indoctrinated 1476 01:15:11,666 --> 01:15:14,266 and encouraged to kill, and he'd gone out and done it. 1477 01:15:21,633 --> 01:15:23,766 By the time of the Bratislava attack, 1478 01:15:23,766 --> 01:15:26,600 law enforcement was already closing in 1479 01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:28,433 on the Terrorgram Collective. 1480 01:15:30,500 --> 01:15:33,433 The downfall of the Terrorgram Collective 1481 01:15:33,433 --> 01:15:36,000 starts with the arrest of Pavol Be adik. 1482 01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,466 He gets arrested in 2022, 1483 01:15:38,466 --> 01:15:42,966 and then you see a cascade of arrests around the world 1484 01:15:42,966 --> 01:15:47,266 of people who are both collective leaders 1485 01:15:47,266 --> 01:15:48,800 and people who are responding 1486 01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,333 to the collective's propaganda 1487 01:15:50,333 --> 01:15:52,866 and part of this broader Terrorgram community. 1488 01:15:52,866 --> 01:15:54,366 >> The FBI disrupted a plot... 1489 01:15:54,366 --> 01:15:56,766 >> An 18-year-old's accused in a plot 1490 01:15:56,766 --> 01:15:59,133 to destroy a PSE&G power plant... 1491 01:15:59,133 --> 01:16:00,833 >> THOMPSON: Authorities would arrest 1492 01:16:00,833 --> 01:16:03,633 around a dozen people allegedly tied to the group, 1493 01:16:03,633 --> 01:16:06,733 including Dallas Humber and Matthew Allison. 1494 01:16:08,066 --> 01:16:09,600 They were charged with 1495 01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:12,066 leading a transnational terrorist organization, 1496 01:16:12,066 --> 01:16:15,866 encouraging hate crimes and terrorist attacks. 1497 01:16:15,866 --> 01:16:18,500 >> Are these arrests the end of Terrorgram? 1498 01:16:18,500 --> 01:16:20,600 You may have a, a collapse 1499 01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:23,133 specifically of this particular network, 1500 01:16:23,133 --> 01:16:25,066 but is that the end? Absolutely not. 1501 01:16:25,066 --> 01:16:27,533 >> Neo-Nazis walk through Nashville... 1502 01:16:27,533 --> 01:16:29,566 >> A conspiracy by white supremacists 1503 01:16:29,566 --> 01:16:32,466 to attack a portion of the Northwest's power grid. 1504 01:16:32,466 --> 01:16:34,100 >> These groups come and go all the time. 1505 01:16:34,100 --> 01:16:35,666 Individuals come and go all the time. 1506 01:16:35,666 --> 01:16:37,766 >> ...the group chanting "white power" 1507 01:16:37,766 --> 01:16:40,133 and other racially provocative language. 1508 01:16:40,133 --> 01:16:41,400 >> White power! 1509 01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:42,433 >> And unfortunately, 1510 01:16:42,433 --> 01:16:44,400 there's no indications 1511 01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,533 that these ideas and emotions and practices 1512 01:16:46,533 --> 01:16:48,666 that are associated with things like Terrorgram 1513 01:16:48,666 --> 01:16:50,100 are going anywhere. 1514 01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:51,433 >> Hate crimes have been on the rise 1515 01:16:51,433 --> 01:16:52,933 for the past several years... 1516 01:16:52,933 --> 01:16:55,100 >> Especially given the broader climate 1517 01:16:55,100 --> 01:16:57,966 that exists within our society. 1518 01:16:57,966 --> 01:17:00,000 There will be new Terrorgrams 1519 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,300 that take its place by another name, 1520 01:17:02,300 --> 01:17:05,000 and we will continue to see this kind of extremism 1521 01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,300 propagated through platforms 1522 01:17:07,300 --> 01:17:08,900 of various sorts, not just Telegram. 1523 01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,133 >> THOMPSON: The U.S., U.K., and Australia 1524 01:17:13,133 --> 01:17:15,066 have officially designated Terrorgram 1525 01:17:15,066 --> 01:17:17,366 as a transnational terrorist group. 1526 01:17:18,900 --> 01:17:21,766 And Telegram, the platform, 1527 01:17:21,766 --> 01:17:23,566 is facing its own troubles. 1528 01:17:23,566 --> 01:17:25,833 >> Pavel Durov has been arrested... 1529 01:17:25,833 --> 01:17:27,366 >> ...for allegedly failing to moderate 1530 01:17:27,366 --> 01:17:29,033 criminal activity on the platform. 1531 01:17:29,033 --> 01:17:31,033 >> So, in August 2024, 1532 01:17:31,033 --> 01:17:34,333 we saw the founder of Telegram, Pavel Durov, 1533 01:17:34,333 --> 01:17:36,300 arrested and charged on the basis of 1534 01:17:36,300 --> 01:17:38,733 alleged complicity in the spread of 1535 01:17:38,733 --> 01:17:40,566 a range of different illegal content on his platform, 1536 01:17:40,566 --> 01:17:42,533 from child sexual abuse material, 1537 01:17:42,533 --> 01:17:45,066 through to engagement in drug trafficking. 1538 01:17:45,066 --> 01:17:47,466 This is a hugely significant moment 1539 01:17:47,466 --> 01:17:51,466 in really showing how far the platform had come 1540 01:17:51,466 --> 01:17:53,500 and how authorities were frustrated by 1541 01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:55,166 its unwillingness to take actions. 1542 01:17:55,166 --> 01:17:56,600 This is really unprecedented. 1543 01:17:58,366 --> 01:18:01,033 After Durov's arrest, he publicly pledged 1544 01:18:01,033 --> 01:18:02,766 to work more closely with law enforcement 1545 01:18:02,766 --> 01:18:05,766 on action against illegal content on the platform, 1546 01:18:05,766 --> 01:18:07,733 including providing I.P. addresses 1547 01:18:07,733 --> 01:18:10,700 in cases of legitimate warrants being served. 1548 01:18:12,266 --> 01:18:15,466 >> THOMPSON: Durov has called the charges misguided 1549 01:18:15,466 --> 01:18:18,233 for trying to hold a CEO personally responsible 1550 01:18:18,233 --> 01:18:20,900 for crimes committed by a third party. 1551 01:18:23,533 --> 01:18:25,233 Telegram told us, while it is still 1552 01:18:25,233 --> 01:18:27,400 dedicated to upholding free speech, 1553 01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:31,033 it now has around 750 contractors 1554 01:18:31,033 --> 01:18:36,033 to moderate problematic content. 1555 01:18:36,033 --> 01:18:39,300 It said since 2022, it has partnered with a 1556 01:18:39,300 --> 01:18:43,466 counter-extremism group to remove more than 129 million 1557 01:18:43,466 --> 01:18:44,800 pieces of content. 1558 01:18:45,900 --> 01:18:48,600 >> BANDLER: Telegram is still 1559 01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:50,600 one of the more lawless places. 1560 01:18:52,633 --> 01:18:54,133 The Terrorgram channels, 1561 01:18:54,133 --> 01:18:56,533 a lot of them have disappeared or gone dark, 1562 01:18:56,533 --> 01:18:59,300 but you can still find 1563 01:18:59,300 --> 01:19:02,600 plenty of awful content on Telegram. 1564 01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:07,266 Even five months after Matthew Allison was arrested, 1565 01:19:07,266 --> 01:19:09,333 you could still go on Telegram 1566 01:19:09,333 --> 01:19:11,733 and find all his racist videos: 1567 01:19:11,733 --> 01:19:13,666 The ones urging people to kill, 1568 01:19:13,666 --> 01:19:16,100 the assassination manuals. 1569 01:19:18,500 --> 01:19:21,400 It wasn't until we pointed this out to Telegram 1570 01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:23,766 that they took all this content down. 1571 01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:28,833 ♪ ♪ 1572 01:19:28,833 --> 01:19:31,400 >> Texas and Florida have both passed laws 1573 01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:32,833 restricting tech platforms 1574 01:19:32,833 --> 01:19:35,966 from moderating content and blocking political views. 1575 01:19:35,966 --> 01:19:38,300 >> Does the First Amendment protect these companies-- 1576 01:19:38,300 --> 01:19:40,666 Facebook, TikTok, YouTube-- 1577 01:19:40,666 --> 01:19:42,800 from curating content? 1578 01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,700 >> THOMPSON: For years now, social media companies 1579 01:19:45,700 --> 01:19:47,533 have sort of been trying to balance two things: 1580 01:19:47,533 --> 01:19:50,100 how to make their platforms safe 1581 01:19:50,100 --> 01:19:52,466 and then also, how to give people 1582 01:19:52,466 --> 01:19:54,700 a place where they can express themselves. 1583 01:19:54,700 --> 01:19:56,966 >> Republicans have argued 1584 01:19:56,966 --> 01:19:58,800 there's too much content moderation on social media. 1585 01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:00,166 Democrats often say 1586 01:20:00,166 --> 01:20:01,500 there is not enough. 1587 01:20:01,500 --> 01:20:03,700 >> THOMPSON: The debate recently 1588 01:20:03,700 --> 01:20:05,500 has been about whether 1589 01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:08,066 the policing of content has gone too far, 1590 01:20:08,066 --> 01:20:10,800 and whether content moderation 1591 01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,733 basically amounts to censorship. 1592 01:20:13,733 --> 01:20:15,533 >> Hundreds of Twitter accounts 1593 01:20:15,533 --> 01:20:17,033 belonging to far-right activists 1594 01:20:17,033 --> 01:20:19,166 and QAnon theorists have been reinstated. 1595 01:20:19,166 --> 01:20:23,066 >> THOMPSON: That debate is going to keep going. 1596 01:20:23,066 --> 01:20:24,633 >> We're gonna get rid of fact-checkers 1597 01:20:24,633 --> 01:20:26,166 and replace them with Community Notes. 1598 01:20:26,166 --> 01:20:28,766 >> THOMPSON: But this is what the Terrorgram story 1599 01:20:28,766 --> 01:20:32,700 is about, is the extreme end of all this. 1600 01:20:32,700 --> 01:20:35,533 What do you do as a company 1601 01:20:35,533 --> 01:20:38,966 when you have people on your platform saying, 1602 01:20:38,966 --> 01:20:42,633 "Let's go kill folks, let's assassinate people, 1603 01:20:42,633 --> 01:20:44,333 let's do sabotage and terrorism." 1604 01:20:44,333 --> 01:20:45,433 How do you deal with that? 1605 01:20:45,433 --> 01:20:49,866 ♪ ♪ 1606 01:20:49,866 --> 01:20:52,100 >> We call upon governments 1607 01:20:52,100 --> 01:20:54,033 around the world 1608 01:20:54,033 --> 01:20:57,466 to bring an end to hate speech 1609 01:20:57,466 --> 01:21:00,600 and the politics of fear. 1610 01:21:01,766 --> 01:21:05,800 >> BANDLER: What we've seen through the Terrorgram story 1611 01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:09,766 is that there are consequences to unfettered free speech, 1612 01:21:09,766 --> 01:21:12,400 to having the influencers out there 1613 01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:15,400 advocating violence or mass murder. 1614 01:21:17,266 --> 01:21:19,466 >> Thousands of people gathered 1615 01:21:19,466 --> 01:21:22,833 at a vigil in Slovakia to commemorate two people killed 1616 01:21:22,833 --> 01:21:24,466 outside a gay bar. 1617 01:21:24,466 --> 01:21:26,100 >> (speaking Slovak): 1618 01:21:30,066 --> 01:21:32,800 >> BANDLER: If you look at what happened 1619 01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:34,700 over the last five years, 1620 01:21:34,700 --> 01:21:37,300 you have to ask a question: 1621 01:21:37,300 --> 01:21:39,233 what have we reaped 1622 01:21:39,233 --> 01:21:41,266 as a result of this? 1623 01:21:41,266 --> 01:21:45,866 What new whirlwind are we throwing ourselves into? 1624 01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:52,066 ♪ ♪ 1625 01:21:54,266 --> 01:21:56,700 >> (speaking Slovak): 1626 01:22:22,666 --> 01:22:25,600 ♪ ♪ 1627 01:22:35,766 --> 01:22:37,566 >> NARRATOR: Go to pbs.org/frontline for more 1628 01:22:37,566 --> 01:22:39,600 reporting from our partners at ProPublica. 1629 01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:42,700 >> Telegram, much like the chans, was a platform 1630 01:22:42,700 --> 01:22:44,300 where almost anything went. 1631 01:22:44,300 --> 01:22:46,300 >> NARRATOR: And see more of our collaborations 1632 01:22:46,300 --> 01:22:47,833 on extremism in America. 1633 01:22:47,833 --> 01:22:48,933 >> Tell me about your T-shirt. 1634 01:22:48,933 --> 01:22:50,900 What are you saying here? 1635 01:22:50,900 --> 01:22:52,466 >> It says what it says. 1636 01:22:52,466 --> 01:22:53,566 >> What do you mean by that? 1637 01:22:53,566 --> 01:22:54,800 You're down for fascism? 1638 01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:56,633 Is that what you're saying? 1639 01:22:56,633 --> 01:22:57,966 >> NARRATOR: Connect with FRONTLINE on Facebook, 1640 01:22:57,966 --> 01:23:00,433 Instagram, and X and stream anytime on 1641 01:23:00,433 --> 01:23:03,866 the PBS app, YouTube or pbs.org/frontline. 1642 01:23:24,366 --> 01:23:25,366 Captioned by 1643 01:23:25,366 --> 01:23:26,366 Media Access Group at WGBH 1644 01:23:26,366 --> 01:23:28,800 access.wgbh.org 1645 01:23:32,533 --> 01:23:34,866 >> For more on this and other "FRONTLINE" programs, 1646 01:23:34,866 --> 01:23:39,033 visit our website at pbs.org/frontline. 1647 01:23:39,033 --> 01:23:53,900 ♪ ♪ 1648 01:23:53,900 --> 01:23:57,100 FRONTLINE's "The Rise and Fall of Terrorgram" 1649 01:23:57,100 --> 01:24:00,000 is available on Amazon Prime Video. 1650 01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:04,800 ♪ ♪