WEBVTT

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>> Breaking news after
reports of a shooting.

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>> Multiple people
ruthlessly gunned down.

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>> Police have also discovered
a lengthy manifesto.

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>> NARRATOR: In collaboration
with ProPublica, reporters

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A.C. Thompson and
James Bandler investigate

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the global rise of a
dangerous movement.

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>> This is a very militant,
aggressive, dangerous community.

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>> The story that we unraveled
was frankly very disturbing.

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>> What’s interesting
about this collective

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is how transnational it is.

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>> NARRATOR: How they
radicalized online.

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>> He was a very active user

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>> of all these channels.
>> Wow.

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>> NARRATOR: And 
promoted violence.

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>> Here was someone that they
had successfully indoctrinated

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and encouraged to kill, and
he’d gone out and done it.

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>> NARRATOR: Now on FRONTLINE,
The Rise and Fall of Terrorgram.

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>> You have to ask a question.

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What have we reaped
as a result of this?

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What new whirlwind are we
throwing ourselves into?

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♪ ♪

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>> A.C. THOMPSON: Old Town
in Bratislava, Slovakia.

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I was here to investigate
a deadly attack

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that had terrorized
this Central European city.

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It happened on the evening
of October 12, 2022.

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That night, on Zámocká Street,

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three friends sat
talking outside a

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gay bar they frequented.

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>> (speaking Slovak):

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>> THOMPSON: Radka Trok  iarová
was catching up

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with her friends
Matú   and Juraj.

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>> TROK  IAROVÁ:

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>> THOMPSON:
Radka saw another person

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standing in the shadows,
not far from the bar.

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>> TROK  IAROVÁ:

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>> THOMPSON: His name was
Juraj Kraj  ík.

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He was 19 years old.

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>> He was an intelligent
student.

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He was very good in English.

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He was usually alone.

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It was not suspicious
to anybody at that time.

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>> THOMPSON:
But earlier that day,

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Kraj  ík had posted a
hate-filled manifesto online,

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full of false narratives
and racist conspiracy theories.

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He wrote that white people were
facing "a critical situation,"

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and that Jews and gay people
should be eliminated.

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>> TROK  IAROVÁ:

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>> THOMPSON:
Kraj  ík pulled out a gun

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and aimed directly
at the three friends.

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♪ ♪

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>> TROK  IAROVÁ:

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>> THOMPSON: Kraj  ík fired twic
more into the bodies

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on the ground.

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Then he fled into the night.

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>> (speaking Slovak):

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>> WOMAN:

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>> LIPSIC:

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We did not know
what the motive was.

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We knew it was a murder
in cold blood.

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But of course, we didn't have
the shooter, who was at large,

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moving around the large center
of Bratislava.

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>> (speaking Slovak):

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>> THOMPSON: Slovak officials
believed

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no one else was involved
in the shooting--

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that Kraj  ík was
a so-called lone wolf.

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But his manifesto
contained clues

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that, in fact,
he'd been radicalized

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by a global community
of online extremists

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to commit an act
of 21st-century terror.

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The Bratislava attack
is important because

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it's a pure example
of how influencers today

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can encourage and inspire
other people to go out

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and commit acts of terrorism.

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It explains and shows
how terrorism works today.

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♪ ♪

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For the past year,

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I've been reporting on the dark
corners of the internet

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and social media
that have given rise

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to a series of deadly far-right
terror attacks.

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>> The ecosystem is designed
such that anyone can pop off

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and create a very high-impact,

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damaging attack on society
at the drop of a hat.

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>> THOMPSON: With a team of
reporters from "Frontline"

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and ProPublica, my colleague
James Bandler and I

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have been investigating
the anonymous

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and loosely moderated platforms
where extremists have been able

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to share propaganda

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and terrorist instructional
material...

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>> It was allowing for,

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really, kind of unfiltered
and unregulated

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hate and extremism
to kind of run rampant.

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>> THOMPSON: ...and the
transnational terrorist network

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behind the Bratislava attack,

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known as the
"Terrorgram Collective."

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>> BANDLER: These people on the
messaging

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and social media app Telegram

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were trying to stir other people

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to commit acts
of incredible violence

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and to spark a race war,
which they hoped would lead

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to a white ethno-state rising
from the ashes.

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>> (chanting):
You will not replace us!

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(chant continues)

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(chant continues)

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>> THOMPSON:
I've been documenting

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hate groups in America

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for "Frontline" and ProPublica

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for almost a decade.

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Back in August 2017,

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I was in Charlottesville,
Virginia,

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when white supremacists made

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their biggest public show
of force in years.

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>> White Lives Matter!

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White Lives Matter!

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>> White Lives Matter!

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>> THOMPSON: It was incredibly
chaotic and disturbing.

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>> (chanting): Nazi scum
off our streets!

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>> THOMPSON: The rally descended

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into racist, anti-Semitic
violence.

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(people yelling, crying out)

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(people screaming)

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A young counter-protester
was murdered.

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Far-right extremists were
arrested,

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criminally prosecuted,
and sued in civil courts.

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>> We are here today

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to announce the arrests
of four members

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of the militant
white supremacist group...

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>> THOMPSON: For the movement,
Charlottesville was pivotal.

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One of the things that happened

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is, the movement
kind of splintered.

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And so there was a faction of
the movement that said,

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"We're going underground.

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"We are not going to meet
in person anymore.

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"We're going to engage
in terrorism,

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"and we're going to communicate
with each other

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"through these online platforms.

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"We can win
a secret, clandestine battle

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and we can try to bring down
the government."

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In online chats I was
monitoring at the time,

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extremists were increasingly
promoting a violent ideology

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called militant accelerationism.

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>> Militant accelerationism

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is a terroristic ideology

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that is rooted in notions
of white supremacy

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that looks to collapse
the societal order

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and encourage race riots

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across Western countries,
in particular.

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>> THOMPSON: Milo Comerford is
an extremism expert.

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>> This is really about
encouraging violence,

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polarization, and racial animus

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that can lead to a war
and a conflict

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that can be used as the basis
for forming a white ethno-state.

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♪ ♪

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>> THOMPSON: In 2019, this
growing accelerationist movement

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would be galvanized
by a horrific terrorist attack

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on the other side of the world.

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>> ♪ Allahu akbar ♪

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♪ Allahu akbar ♪

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♪ Allahu akbar ♪

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>> THOMPSON: What happened
in Christchurch, New Zealand,

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would provide a grim template:

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leaderless,
decentralized terrorism

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performed
for an online audience.

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>> (continues Arabic chant)

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>> THOMPSON: Friday prayers, the
Al Noor Mosque in Christchurch,

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a hub for practicing Muslims
on New Zealand's South Island.

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>> March 15.

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It was beautiful sunny day.

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>> (talking in background)

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>> I go Al Noor Mosque
for my worshiping.

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And that is my regular mosque
to go to every Friday.

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>> (speaking Arabic)

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>> Imam started the speech,

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when I hear the big bang sounds.

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♪ ♪

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And then I see someone
with the helmets and vest.

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He's prepared other weapon.

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And I see myself front of,
you know, that weapon.

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And then I see the smokes
come out

11:11.333 --> 11:15.566 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
and then I feel the bullets
in my mouth.

11:18.433 --> 11:22.233 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
He start walking towards us...

11:24.433 --> 11:27.466 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
...and serial shooting,
pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop,

11:27.466 --> 11:29.466 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:31.88%
sounds like that.

11:30.666 --> 11:33.766 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
I see, like, he, he's enjoying.

11:36.400 --> 11:40.133 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:16.88%
You know,
it's like a video game.

11:44.133 --> 11:47.300 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
He's just focused
what he is doing.

11:50.200 --> 11:55.766 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
While I'm seeing the bullets
entering my legs,

11:55.766 --> 11:57.233 align:start position:38.75% line:84.67% size:22.5%
I said, "Oh.

11:57.233 --> 11:59.033 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
"I think this is
how you're feeling

11:59.033 --> 12:01.233 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
when you get shot."

12:01.233 --> 12:04.366 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
Bang, bang, you know.

12:04.366 --> 12:06.566 align:start position:42.5% line:84.67% size:13.13%
Just...

12:06.566 --> 12:08.500 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:31.88%
(breathes deeply)

12:10.800 --> 12:13.266 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
It seems like never stop.

12:15.900 --> 12:17.233 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
>> All suddenly,

12:17.233 --> 12:19.733 align:start position:42.5% line:10% size:15%
he left.

12:19.733 --> 12:21.566 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
The mosque is full of smoke.

12:23.633 --> 12:25.666 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
It went very quiet.

12:26.933 --> 12:29.266 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
I heard somebody by the door
saying,

12:29.266 --> 12:31.066 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
"Imam, I know you are there!

12:31.066 --> 12:32.700 align:start position:40.62% line:84.67% size:18.75%
"Come out!

12:32.700 --> 12:34.700 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
The police is here."

12:37.966 --> 12:40.466 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
He pulled my hands.

12:40.466 --> 12:43.500 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
I wish that he had covered,
he had covered my eyes.

12:43.500 --> 12:47.100 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
Because I saw here,
in that corner,

12:47.100 --> 12:49.800 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
three meters long, this side,
and high,

12:49.800 --> 12:53.000 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
people on top of each other
and bleeding.

12:55.200 --> 12:56.633 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
And on that corner by that door,

12:56.633 --> 12:59.500 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
I saw people over there.

12:59.500 --> 13:03.866 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
That is the real massacre
I have seen in my life now.

13:10.566 --> 13:11.866 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> We're interrupting
normal programming

13:11.866 --> 13:13.233 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
with some breaking news,

13:13.233 --> 13:15.033 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
after reports of a shooting
in central Christchurch.

13:15.033 --> 13:17.800 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
(sirens blaring)

13:20.300 --> 13:22.266 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:41.25%
>> THOMPSON: 44 people
were killed in the attack

13:22.266 --> 13:23.833 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
at the Al Noor Mosque.

13:25.566 --> 13:27.500 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
Dozens were injured.

13:27.500 --> 13:31.100 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
At a second mosque,
seven more were shot dead.

13:31.100 --> 13:35.033 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> Police arrested 28-year-old
Australian Brenton Tarrant.

13:35.033 --> 13:36.500 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> THOMPSON: The gunman
eventually pleaded

13:36.500 --> 13:39.000 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
guilty to the murder
of 51 people

13:39.000 --> 13:41.433 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
and the attempted murder
of another 40.

13:42.933 --> 13:45.666 align:start position:38.75% line:10% size:22.5%
He was given
multiple life sentences.

13:48.166 --> 13:49.833 align:start position:20% line:10% size:60%
In the aftermath of the attacks,

13:49.833 --> 13:53.233 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
a government inquiry,
known as the Royal Commission,

13:53.233 --> 13:56.600 align:start position:40.62% line:10% size:16.88%
concluded
that he was a "lone actor."

13:56.600 --> 14:01.033 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
But recently published research
from the University of Auckland

14:01.033 --> 14:04.233 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:56.25%
found that Brenton Tarrant had
been part of a global community

14:04.233 --> 14:07.033 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
of online extremists
for many years.

14:07.033 --> 14:10.400 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> We've got five years
of him speaking candidly online,

14:10.400 --> 14:13.133 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
so being able to understand
what drove him,

14:13.133 --> 14:14.766 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
being able to see him
speaking with, you know,

14:14.766 --> 14:16.333 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
completely unguardedly, in an,

14:16.333 --> 14:19.066 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
in this environment
where he, he kind of felt safe.

14:19.066 --> 14:20.900 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Researchers Chris Wilson

14:20.900 --> 14:22.900 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
and Michal Dziwulski uncovered

14:22.900 --> 14:25.233 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
more than 400 posts
they linked to Tarrant,

14:25.233 --> 14:27.666 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
including threats
against Muslims,

14:27.666 --> 14:32.133 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
all scraped from
the online platform 4chan.

14:32.133 --> 14:33.866 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
>> So this is 4chan,

14:33.866 --> 14:35.666 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
a simple image-based
bulletin board

14:35.666 --> 14:37.800 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
where anyone can post comments
and share images.

14:37.800 --> 14:41.233 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
There's a whole bunch
of different boards

14:41.233 --> 14:44.533 align:start position:36.88% line:10% size:24.38%
that have got
different types of themes.

14:44.533 --> 14:46.533 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
The most famous far-right one

14:46.533 --> 14:48.266 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
is the Politically Incorrect
board,

14:48.266 --> 14:49.900 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
which we found Tarrant on.

14:51.533 --> 14:52.933 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Politically Incorrect

14:52.933 --> 14:55.300 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
was known as the "/pol/" board,
for short--

14:55.300 --> 14:58.466 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
a home for people
with extremist opinions.

14:58.466 --> 15:00.933 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
As with all 4chan boards,

15:00.933 --> 15:02.833 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
every post is anonymous.

15:02.833 --> 15:04.333 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
>> This isn't just showing

15:04.333 --> 15:05.800 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
how thorough we've been with

15:05.800 --> 15:07.566 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:30%
our multi-factor
authentication...

15:07.566 --> 15:10.066 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> THOMPSON: They linked the
posts to Tarrant by scouring

15:10.066 --> 15:12.300 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
his known online history,

15:12.300 --> 15:15.033 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
cross-referencing
thousands of posts,

15:15.033 --> 15:17.800 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
a digital trail
of old usernames,

15:17.800 --> 15:19.666 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
spelling quirks,

15:19.666 --> 15:20.966 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
and odd word usages.

15:22.333 --> 15:25.766 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> This email address
that he used in 2013

15:25.766 --> 15:27.700 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
is the same address

15:27.700 --> 15:30.266 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
that he used
right before his attack.

15:30.266 --> 15:32.833 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> THOMPSON: The researchers
compared these posts

15:32.833 --> 15:34.800 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
to an account
of Tarrant's travels

15:34.800 --> 15:36.866 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
compiled by
the Royal Commission,

15:36.866 --> 15:38.633 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
which uncovered that he had
traveled

15:38.633 --> 15:40.600 align:start position:20% line:10% size:60%
to more than 50 countries in the
five years

15:40.600 --> 15:42.533 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
before the attack,

15:42.533 --> 15:44.433 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:31.88%
apparently alone.

15:44.433 --> 15:46.333 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
They matched Tarrant's itinerary

15:46.333 --> 15:48.833 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
to posts on the /pol/ board.

15:48.833 --> 15:52.066 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> The flags on Politically
Incorrect were

15:52.066 --> 15:55.700 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:52.5%
a feature that was added to,
I guess, promote nationalism.

15:55.700 --> 15:57.966 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:16.88%
When he's
in these different countries,

15:57.966 --> 16:00.133 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
we can see that the I.P. address

16:00.133 --> 16:02.633 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
comes up with those flags.

16:02.633 --> 16:06.666 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: And so the flags
and the geography line up

16:06.666 --> 16:08.500 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
with the dates
that the Royal Commission

16:08.500 --> 16:09.966 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
said he was in these places.

16:09.966 --> 16:11.200 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
>> That's right.

16:11.200 --> 16:12.800 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
So all of the posts
that we're showing,

16:12.800 --> 16:14.133 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
they correspond to the countries

16:14.133 --> 16:15.700 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
that he was visiting
at the time.

16:17.266 --> 16:19.566 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> THOMPSON: As he traveled,
Tarrant stayed in touch

16:19.566 --> 16:21.633 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
with the /pol/ community
on 4chan,

16:21.633 --> 16:25.566 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
which was increasingly becoming
an echo chamber of hate.

16:28.600 --> 16:30.333 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
>> The history of 4chan

16:30.333 --> 16:32.233 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
is an interesting one in that

16:32.233 --> 16:34.133 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
it developed initially

16:34.133 --> 16:36.900 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
and very popular within
kind of anime culture.

16:36.900 --> 16:39.200 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> THOMPSON: Pete Simi
is a sociologist

16:39.200 --> 16:41.133 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
who studies violent extremists

16:41.133 --> 16:44.266 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
and how they distribute
propaganda online.

16:44.266 --> 16:46.200 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> It's very rudimentary
in many respects.

16:46.200 --> 16:47.433 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
They're not glossy,

16:47.433 --> 16:49.833 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
they don't look very digitally
sophisticated.

16:49.833 --> 16:51.700 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
They look kind of old-school,
in a way,

16:51.700 --> 16:54.133 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
almost like the
old bulletin boards

16:54.133 --> 16:55.700 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
from the early '80s.

16:55.700 --> 16:58.700 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
4chan was started in 2003

16:58.700 --> 17:01.766 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
by 15-year-old entrepreneur
Chris Poole

17:01.766 --> 17:04.800 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
as a space to communicate
with his friends.

17:04.800 --> 17:08.000 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
Unexpectedly,
it became a phenomenon.

17:08.000 --> 17:10.433 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
>> There are very few places now
where you can go

17:10.433 --> 17:12.300 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
and not have ident,
to be, be completely anonymous

17:12.300 --> 17:14.866 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
and say, and say
whatever you'd like.

17:14.866 --> 17:19.200 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
>> THOMPSON: 4chan became known
as a meme factory.

17:19.200 --> 17:21.866 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
But with anonymity
and little moderation,

17:21.866 --> 17:25.100 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
the content grew
increasingly edgy.

17:25.100 --> 17:27.400 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
Despite some efforts
to clean up the site,

17:27.400 --> 17:31.000 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
by the time Chris Poole
sold 4chan in 2015,

17:31.000 --> 17:33.600 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
it had become
a popular destination

17:33.600 --> 17:35.733 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
for racists and extremists.

17:35.733 --> 17:38.233 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
>> One of the things
that started to happen on 4chan

17:38.233 --> 17:42.500 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
is a kind of accumulation
of neo-Nazi, white supremacist,

17:42.500 --> 17:47.800 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
misogynistic, extreme, hateful
tenets and trends.

17:49.433 --> 17:52.133 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> These people are going in,
there's, it's humor,

17:52.133 --> 17:55.300 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:30%
there are memes,
they're getting all these ideas

17:55.300 --> 17:57.800 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
of anti-Semitism, Islamophobia,

17:57.800 --> 17:59.733 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
ideas of white genocide,
and so on,

17:59.733 --> 18:01.500 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
all in just little snippets

18:01.500 --> 18:03.300 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
that are really, really easy to
take in,

18:03.300 --> 18:04.866 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
and maybe without even noticing

18:04.866 --> 18:06.700 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
that they are developing
these ideas

18:06.700 --> 18:09.100 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
that are racist
and potentially violent.

18:09.100 --> 18:10.966 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: Tarrant's path
over the years

18:10.966 --> 18:15.200 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
appears to have followed
that process of radicalization.

18:15.200 --> 18:18.966 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
The researchers found posts
from 2015,

18:18.966 --> 18:21.866 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
after Dylann Roof killed nine
Black members of a church

18:21.866 --> 18:24.333 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:26.25%
in Charleston.

18:24.333 --> 18:26.666 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> So these are posts from
Tarrant dated June 2015,

18:26.666 --> 18:28.366 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
and they're in response

18:28.366 --> 18:30.433 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
to somebody who posted
Dylann Roof's manifesto.

18:31.500 --> 18:32.800 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
"They're in the wrong country,

18:32.800 --> 18:35.500 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
perpetuating the destruction
of the white race."

18:35.500 --> 18:39.333 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> THOMPSON: For Tarrant,
it was a turning point.

18:39.333 --> 18:42.466 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
The big moments on the 4chan
/pol/ board

18:42.466 --> 18:45.400 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
are the moments where
there's a massive attack.

18:45.400 --> 18:48.800 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
4chan is a place where,
when people go out

18:48.800 --> 18:51.666 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
and commit acts of
white supremacist terrorism,

18:51.666 --> 18:53.633 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
they are celebrated

18:53.633 --> 18:57.200 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
and lauded and hailed as heroes,
so,

18:57.200 --> 18:59.400 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
you should not be surprised

18:59.400 --> 19:03.100 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
if that kind of adulation

19:03.100 --> 19:06.166 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
doesn't spawn more people
seeking that fame.

19:08.266 --> 19:12.166 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
The current owner of 4chan,
Hiroyuki Nishimura,

19:12.166 --> 19:14.533 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
did not respond
to interview requests.

19:14.533 --> 19:16.866 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
The site's administrators have
said that any threat of

19:16.866 --> 19:20.066 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
violence or terrorist
acts violates their rules,

19:20.066 --> 19:22.766 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
and that they've banned users 
who've done so.

19:28.466 --> 19:31.766 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
In August 2017,
Brenton Tarrant moved

19:31.766 --> 19:36.100 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
to Dunedin, a city on the coast
of New Zealand's South Island.

19:36.100 --> 19:41.266 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
It was here that he plotted
his accelerationist attack,

19:41.266 --> 19:44.333 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
leaving clues of his intent
on 4chan.

19:45.866 --> 19:48.433 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
>> He let everybody know that he
was going to commit an attack

19:48.433 --> 19:50.133 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:28.13%
at least twice.

19:50.133 --> 19:54.033 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
In two threads,
in March and August 2018,

19:54.033 --> 19:58.300 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
he speaks angrily about
the spread of people of color

19:58.300 --> 20:01.466 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
and the supposed spread
of mosques in New Zealand.

20:03.033 --> 20:06.100 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> Somebody posts matches
to indicate,

20:06.100 --> 20:09.700 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
"Hey, this would be a good idea
to burn these mosques down."

20:09.700 --> 20:11.866 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
And Tarrant comes in and says,
"Soon."

20:13.666 --> 20:15.266 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
The truth of the matter is,

20:15.266 --> 20:18.233 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
he was carrying out

20:18.233 --> 20:21.000 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
the aspirations
of the online community.

20:21.000 --> 20:23.166 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
So he wasn't a lone actor.

20:23.166 --> 20:26.800 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
He was a guy who was reflecting
the values of his community.

20:28.400 --> 20:29.700 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
(computer keys clacking)

20:29.700 --> 20:33.166 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
As Tarrant prepared,
he wrote a 74-page manifesto

20:33.166 --> 20:36.233 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
full of falsehoods
and racist ideology.

20:37.433 --> 20:39.000 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
He called it
"The Great Replacement,"

20:39.000 --> 20:42.100 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
after a conspiracy theory
about a supposed plot

20:42.100 --> 20:42.966 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
to wipe out the white race.

20:44.600 --> 20:47.666 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
And then came March 15.

20:50.433 --> 20:52.200 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
(sirens blaring)

20:52.200 --> 20:54.466 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
>> Breaking news
after reports of a shooting...

20:54.466 --> 20:56.933 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
>> An anti-Muslim
terror attack in New Zealand.

20:56.933 --> 20:58.600 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
>> Multiple people
ruthlessly gunned down.

20:58.600 --> 21:02.033 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> Under his name online is a
racist manifesto, claiming...

21:02.033 --> 21:04.366 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: Tarrant posted
links to his manifesto

21:04.366 --> 21:07.166 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
on a site similar to 4chan
called 8chan.

21:08.366 --> 21:10.266 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
In a disturbing innovation,

21:10.266 --> 21:13.533 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
he also live-streamed
the attacks on Facebook,

21:13.533 --> 21:16.466 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
filmed like
a first-person shooter game.

21:16.466 --> 21:19.033 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:18.75%
>> He used
every available means

21:19.033 --> 21:21.433 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
of dissemination of his ideas
that he could.

21:21.433 --> 21:23.333 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:18.75%
Mainstream
social media accounts.

21:23.333 --> 21:26.933 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
He used this new technology,
the GoPro camera,

21:26.933 --> 21:30.133 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
to make a live stream,
which would mean

21:30.133 --> 21:32.900 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
that the propaganda was almost
impossible to stop

21:32.900 --> 21:34.600 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
and would continue for years
to come.

21:36.966 --> 21:40.066 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: The Christchurch
attack convulsed New Zealand.

21:40.066 --> 21:42.633 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
In the aftermath,
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern

21:42.633 --> 21:44.833 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
issued an edict.

21:44.833 --> 21:46.600 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
>> He may have sought notoriety,

21:46.600 --> 21:51.633 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
but we in New Zealand will give
him nothing-- not even his name.

21:51.633 --> 21:54.066 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
His manifesto was banned,

21:54.066 --> 21:57.133 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
the attack video made illegal
to possess.

21:57.133 --> 22:00.900 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
They were trying to stop
Tarrant's toxic propaganda

22:00.900 --> 22:02.566 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
and erase his name.

22:02.566 --> 22:05.500 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
But online,
Tarrant was becoming an icon.

22:05.500 --> 22:08.333 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
His racist propaganda
was spreading.

22:13.200 --> 22:17.566 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
The manifesto was posted,
quoted, and shared worldwide.

22:17.566 --> 22:20.333 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
Facebook had quickly taken
down the livestream,

22:20.333 --> 22:23.766 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
but new links were put up
on 4chan and 8chan.

22:26.433 --> 22:28.166 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> It was one of the most
widely shared

22:28.166 --> 22:29.933 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
pieces of content of that,
of that nature

22:29.933 --> 22:31.500 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
ever in the history
of the internet.

22:31.500 --> 22:33.700 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: Matt Kriner
is an expert

22:33.700 --> 22:35.900 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
on violent extremism
and has studied

22:35.900 --> 22:38.733 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
how Christchurch became a model
for future attacks.

22:40.133 --> 22:42.733 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
>> He constructed
a very clear formula

22:42.733 --> 22:44.566 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
for others to follow
in his footsteps,

22:44.566 --> 22:46.100 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
because that's ultimately
what he wanted.

22:46.100 --> 22:50.300 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
He wanted others to see what he
was doing as a call to action.

22:50.300 --> 22:53.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: By the time
of the Christchurch attacks,

22:53.066 --> 22:58.233 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
many far-right extremists had
migrated from 4chan to 8chan.

22:58.233 --> 22:59.766 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
>> BANDLER: We wanted to see

22:59.766 --> 23:02.366 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
who created this platform

23:02.366 --> 23:04.800 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
with almost no content
moderation.

23:04.800 --> 23:08.133 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
Well, this platform
that had become sort of a

23:08.133 --> 23:10.933 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
free-for-all for some
of the ugliest speech.

23:10.933 --> 23:14.966 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
And we reached out to Fredrick
Brennan and went and saw him.

23:16.600 --> 23:19.900 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: Fredrick Brennan
had started 8chan in 2013.

23:19.900 --> 23:22.700 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
He was born
with a congenital condition

23:22.700 --> 23:24.366 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
affecting his bone structure.

23:25.800 --> 23:26.966 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
>> It's a very rare disease,

23:26.966 --> 23:29.033 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
so there's not much funding
in research.

23:29.033 --> 23:30.033 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
>> BANDLER:
What's the disease called?

23:30.033 --> 23:32.033 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
>> Osteogenesis imperfecta.

23:32.033 --> 23:33.666 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> THOMPSON: Early on,
Brennan developed

23:33.666 --> 23:36.733 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
a passion for computers
and coding,

23:36.733 --> 23:39.633 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
and discovered chat sites,
including 4chan.

23:39.633 --> 23:42.033 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
>> I became really interested

23:42.033 --> 23:44.666 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
in how 4chan was set up, like,
technically.

23:44.666 --> 23:48.500 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
It was fun for me, because, I,

23:48.500 --> 23:49.966 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
especially as a kid,

23:49.966 --> 23:51.866 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
was very different
from everyone else.

23:51.866 --> 23:54.500 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
As a teenager on 4chan,

23:54.500 --> 23:57.300 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Brennan used the platform's
signature anonymity

23:57.300 --> 24:01.133 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
to make outrageous
and offensive statements.

24:01.133 --> 24:02.700 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
>> One of the ways
that I rebelled was that

24:02.700 --> 24:07.133 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
I became, like,
this very fringe advocate

24:07.133 --> 24:09.666 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
for the Nazi movement
of eugenics.

24:09.666 --> 24:10.866 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> BANDLER: To kill people
like yourself...

24:10.866 --> 24:12.500 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> Yes, to kill people
like myself, yes.

24:12.500 --> 24:15.033 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
It made me feel really smart

24:15.033 --> 24:17.900 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
to be, like, 15, 16, right?

24:17.900 --> 24:21.300 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
And to be saying things
that these adults

24:21.300 --> 24:25.000 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
don't know how to even conceive
of somebody who was disabled

24:25.000 --> 24:28.133 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
telling them, "People
like me shouldn't exist."

24:28.133 --> 24:29.300 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> BANDLER: Have you changed
your views

24:29.300 --> 24:30.700 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
about eugenics and about...
>> (laughs)

24:30.700 --> 24:32.233 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:28.13%
Yes, of course.

24:32.233 --> 24:33.566 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
Yeah, though, I'm not,

24:33.566 --> 24:36.900 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
I'm definitely not a believer
in eugenics anymore, no.

24:36.900 --> 24:40.333 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
That, uh, a teenage folly.

24:43.233 --> 24:46.233 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> THOMPSON: In 2013,
inspired by 4chan,

24:46.233 --> 24:48.766 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
Brennan created his own site.

24:48.766 --> 24:51.066 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
>> (sighs): I thought that

24:51.066 --> 24:53.433 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
it would be kind of, like,

24:53.433 --> 24:56.566 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
the next stage
of 4chan's evolution.

24:56.566 --> 24:58.600 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Brennan wanted 8chan

24:58.600 --> 25:01.800 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
to have even less content
moderation than 4chan.

25:01.800 --> 25:04.200 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:31.88%
>> See, on 4chan,

25:04.200 --> 25:06.166 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
the website's administrators

25:06.166 --> 25:08.033 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
were still in charge
of all the boards.

25:08.033 --> 25:11.433 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
So even the /pol/, like,
politics board on 4chan

25:11.433 --> 25:13.333 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
was not just, like,
a Nazi haven.

25:13.333 --> 25:16.600 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
But on 8chan,
since it was all user-created,

25:16.600 --> 25:18.733 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
we didn't have a /pol/ board
until, like,

25:18.733 --> 25:21.366 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
a user who wanted one
created it.

25:21.366 --> 25:23.566 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
Well, that guy,
he named his user account Heil,

25:23.566 --> 25:24.700 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
so what do you think...

25:24.700 --> 25:25.733 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
>> BANDLER:
Heil, as in "Heil Hitler."

25:25.733 --> 25:26.733 align:start position:38.75% line:84.67% size:22.5%
>> Yes, yes.

25:26.733 --> 25:27.966 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:26.25%
And, you know,

25:27.966 --> 25:28.966 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
he very clearly made it

25:28.966 --> 25:30.866 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
a Nazi stronghold, you know.

25:30.866 --> 25:32.966 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> BANDLER: You're basically
asking people...

25:32.966 --> 25:34.166 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
>> Asking users, yes.

25:34.166 --> 25:35.166 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> BANDLER: ...who are already
on the site

25:35.166 --> 25:36.266 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
to police it.
>> Yes.

25:36.266 --> 25:38.733 align:start position:44.38% line:79.33% size:7.5%
Yes.
>> BANDLER: How does that work?

25:38.733 --> 25:40.500 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> Um, not very well.
(chuckles)

25:42.000 --> 25:45.466 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: Within two years,
amid a wave of new users

25:45.466 --> 25:48.066 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
and mounting costs,
he sold 8chan.

25:48.066 --> 25:50.466 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
But he continued working
with the new owners,

25:50.466 --> 25:54.066 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
until a falling-out led him
to cut ties altogether.

25:54.066 --> 25:56.766 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> I, you know, I don't know
what the future holds, but...

25:56.766 --> 26:01.400 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
Then, in 2019, I was just
starting to get over it.

26:01.400 --> 26:03.500 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
And I was thinking at that time,
"Okay,

26:03.500 --> 26:05.566 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
these guys are nothing,"
you know what I mean?

26:05.566 --> 26:07.400 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
Like, "8chan is not that big
of a site.

26:07.400 --> 26:09.333 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
"4chan is still the main one.

26:09.333 --> 26:12.533 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
It's just going to slowly die
and sink into irrelevance."

26:12.533 --> 26:14.666 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
That's what I thought,
very foolishly.

26:14.666 --> 26:18.566 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Um, and then these shooters
start using it.

26:20.000 --> 26:22.800 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> There's been a shooting
at a synagogue in Poway.

26:22.800 --> 26:25.533 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> White male shooter entered
with an AR-style rifle

26:25.533 --> 26:26.766 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
and opened fire...

26:26.766 --> 26:29.000 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> Six shots, a pause,
another burst.

26:29.000 --> 26:31.433 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
The sheriff believes
the weapon jammed at that point.

26:31.433 --> 26:34.266 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: Just six weeks
after Brenton Tarrant

26:34.266 --> 26:37.200 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
had posted his manifesto
and live stream on 8chan,

26:37.200 --> 26:41.500 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
the first copycat attack,
near San Diego, California.

26:41.500 --> 26:44.700 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:45%
>> One woman was killed,
three other people wounded.

26:44.700 --> 26:47.100 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: The gunman killed
Lori Gilbert-Kaye,

26:47.100 --> 26:49.233 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
a 60-year-old member
of the synagogue,

26:49.233 --> 26:52.200 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
and injured three others,
including an eight-year-old.

26:52.200 --> 26:55.866 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> The suspected gunman
is identified as 19-year-old

26:55.866 --> 26:57.866 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
John Earnest of San Diego.

26:57.866 --> 27:00.666 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
He's a college student
with no criminal record.

27:00.666 --> 27:02.000 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
>> Worshippers say he...

27:05.300 --> 27:08.633 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
>> There was an enormous amount
of police activity.

27:08.633 --> 27:10.366 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
We parked our car,

27:10.366 --> 27:13.166 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
and I can remember talking
to a police officer.

27:13.166 --> 27:15.133 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
They had mentioned
another house.

27:15.133 --> 27:16.433 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
And I felt this relief.

27:16.433 --> 27:20.200 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
"Oh! Thank goodness,
it's not, it's not us."

27:21.700 --> 27:23.700 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
But that wasn't the case.

27:23.700 --> 27:26.833 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
It was us. It was my son.

27:30.133 --> 27:31.733 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: Authorities began
investigating

27:31.733 --> 27:33.933 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
the shooter's online life.

27:33.933 --> 27:35.800 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> Police are reviewing
an open letter

27:35.800 --> 27:38.100 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
he posted online slamming
President Trump,

27:38.100 --> 27:40.266 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
the Jewish faith,
and conservatives.

27:40.266 --> 27:44.033 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> The 19-year-old gunman
bragged in his manifesto

27:44.033 --> 27:47.533 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
about starting a mosque fire
in Escondido last month.

27:49.866 --> 27:51.766 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
>> This is the mosque,

27:51.766 --> 27:54.266 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
and he spray-painted the name

27:54.266 --> 27:56.833 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
of the New Zealand shooter,

27:56.833 --> 27:59.500 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
and "/pol/" is from the 8chan.

27:59.500 --> 28:01.000 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
It's "politically incorrect."

28:01.000 --> 28:04.000 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> THOMPSON: San Diego
district attorney Summer Stephan

28:04.000 --> 28:06.966 align:start position:33.12% line:10% size:33.75%
prosecuted Earnest
for the attack.

28:06.966 --> 28:09.733 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
>> What happened is,
he first shot

28:09.733 --> 28:12.766 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
right from outside to the inside
of the synagogue,

28:12.766 --> 28:16.133 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
he struck Lori Gilbert-Kaye.

28:17.366 --> 28:20.566 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
He went into a room
where there were a lot of kids

28:20.566 --> 28:22.866 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
and began shooting,

28:22.866 --> 28:25.500 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
so he was prepared
to do maximum damage.

28:27.033 --> 28:28.233 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
>> The suspect accused

28:28.233 --> 28:30.600 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
of shooting four people,
killing one of them.

28:30.600 --> 28:33.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> Including an arson fire
at a mosque in Escondido.

28:33.300 --> 28:35.733 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
>> And numerous
hate crime allegations.

28:35.733 --> 28:38.800 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
>> THOMPSON: Earnest eventually
pleaded guilty.

28:38.800 --> 28:40.800 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
He was sentenced to life
in prison without parole.

28:42.400 --> 28:44.300 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
This is the first time
his father

28:44.300 --> 28:45.666 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
has spoken publicly
about his son.

28:47.100 --> 28:50.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> He loved his family.
He had friends.

28:51.566 --> 28:53.600 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
He was a fantastic pianist.

28:54.766 --> 28:58.566 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
He was never a part of any
kind of a hate group.

28:58.566 --> 29:00.400 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
I have to ask it.

29:00.400 --> 29:02.266 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
Your, your family are not
anti-Semites.

29:02.266 --> 29:03.833 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:11.25%
>> No.
>> THOMPSON: You're not racist,

29:03.833 --> 29:07.133 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
haters, is that, that right?
>> That, we are not, at all.

29:07.133 --> 29:10.400 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
He was never exposed to that,
he-- from us.

29:12.100 --> 29:14.033 align:start position:46.25% line:10% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

29:14.033 --> 29:17.533 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
>> THOMPSON: Investigators said
the shooter was radicalized

29:17.533 --> 29:20.866 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
over the course of about a year
on 8chan and other sites.

29:22.466 --> 29:27.366 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
>> The entire process of him
becoming radicalized

29:27.366 --> 29:30.166 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
appeared to have happened
online only,

29:30.166 --> 29:33.433 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
taking someone
who was a 4.4 student

29:33.433 --> 29:37.500 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
all the way
to a cold-hearted killer.

29:38.866 --> 29:40.866 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: Earnest's father
says his son started out

29:40.866 --> 29:43.866 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
on mainstream platforms
like YouTube.

29:43.866 --> 29:45.500 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
Early on, he was a fan

29:45.500 --> 29:48.666 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
of conservative political
commentator Ben Shapiro--

29:48.666 --> 29:50.900 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
until suddenly,
he turned against him.

29:52.133 --> 29:55.666 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> John T. said that,
"Well, that's a Jew.

29:55.666 --> 29:59.400 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
This guy is hated, he's
part of the whole conspiracy,"

29:59.400 --> 30:02.500 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
and that, "I don't listen to him
anymore."

30:02.500 --> 30:06.833 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
And for me, that was
such an abrupt change.

30:06.833 --> 30:11.033 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
It is something that
kind of caught me off-guard.

30:11.033 --> 30:14.733 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: And then he moves
to 4chan and 8chan.

30:15.933 --> 30:18.200 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
>> Yes, John T.,

30:18.200 --> 30:20.166 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
he did talk to me a little
bit about 4chan.

30:20.166 --> 30:23.100 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
I had heard about it, and then
I had also heard about 8chan.

30:23.100 --> 30:26.200 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
I knew that that was something
even darker.

30:26.200 --> 30:27.233 align:start position:44.38% line:84.67% size:9.38%
Um...

30:27.233 --> 30:29.533 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
But I, I did not
quite understand

30:29.533 --> 30:30.766 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
what it was all about.

30:31.700 --> 30:34.633 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: In his manifesto,
which was posted on 8chan,

30:34.633 --> 30:37.366 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
he wrote that Tarrant
was a catalyst for him.

30:38.500 --> 30:40.400 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
Did he talk to you
about Tarrant?

30:42.400 --> 30:44.866 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
>> He had mentioned Tarrant

30:44.866 --> 30:48.733 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
and the heinous crime

30:48.733 --> 30:52.133 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
that Tarrant had committed
against the mosque.

30:52.133 --> 30:54.933 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
He wanted to be very clear
that he supported

30:54.933 --> 30:58.566 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
what Tarrant had done
in the Christchurch shooting.

30:58.566 --> 31:00.666 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
He gave no hint
that this is something

31:00.666 --> 31:02.566 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
that he would like to do,
as well.

31:04.333 --> 31:06.733 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: So he was playing
you, in your mind.

31:06.733 --> 31:09.066 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
He was savvy.
>> (sighs): I don't...

31:09.066 --> 31:12.733 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
At that point, I don't know--
I don't know how this grows.

31:12.733 --> 31:15.600 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
It could be
that he was playing me.

31:15.600 --> 31:18.300 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
In fact, I, I explicitly
asked him

31:18.300 --> 31:20.966 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
at one point about violence,

31:20.966 --> 31:24.433 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
and he said that he would
never resort to violence.

31:24.433 --> 31:27.466 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: What prompted you
to ask him

31:27.466 --> 31:30.933 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
about the possibility that
he would engage in violence?

31:30.933 --> 31:33.066 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> Because so much violence
was associated

31:33.066 --> 31:38.300 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
with the, the people that he
seemed to be honoring.

31:40.433 --> 31:41.666 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

31:41.666 --> 31:44.233 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
>> This is when he was arrested.

31:44.233 --> 31:49.900 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:52.5%
It seemed like he was really
aspiring to that mass killer.

31:49.900 --> 31:51.366 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
In less than a month,

31:51.366 --> 31:54.600 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
had downloaded and searched
the name

31:54.600 --> 31:56.233 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
of the New Zealand shooter

31:56.233 --> 31:58.100 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:31.88%
104 times, and...

31:58.100 --> 32:01.333 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> THOMPSON: 104 times?
>> Yes-- he was hoping

32:01.333 --> 32:04.100 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
he would do the
same as the New Zealand shooter,

32:04.100 --> 32:07.633 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
and inspire a horrible
generation of people

32:07.633 --> 32:09.700 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
that will also kill.

32:11.200 --> 32:16.600 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

32:19.033 --> 32:21.300 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
(sirens blaring in distance)

32:21.300 --> 32:23.033 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
>> THOMPSON: Three months later,

32:23.033 --> 32:27.733 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
another attack linked to 8chan,
this time in El Paso.

32:27.733 --> 32:31.366 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
(sirens blaring)

32:31.366 --> 32:34.400 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> At least 20 people dead,
more than two dozen injured,

32:34.400 --> 32:38.500 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
the wounded ranging in age from
two years old to 82 years old.

32:38.500 --> 32:40.866 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> Moments before the mass
murder in El Paso,

32:40.866 --> 32:43.633 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
the suspect detailed his plans
and ideology

32:43.633 --> 32:46.266 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
in a post on the internet forum
8chan.

32:46.266 --> 32:48.133 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: Although 8chan
quickly removed

32:48.133 --> 32:51.000 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
the shooter's manifesto, as it
had done after San Diego,

32:51.000 --> 32:53.233 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
it was too late.

32:53.233 --> 32:56.466 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
It had been copied and 
would be widely reposted.

32:57.733 --> 32:58.966 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
>> Christchurch had happened,

32:58.966 --> 33:01.300 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
and that was
the first large one.

33:01.300 --> 33:04.700 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
Then in San Diego,
then finally in El Paso.

33:04.700 --> 33:08.233 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
>> Tonight, the man who created
8chan wants it shut down.

33:08.233 --> 33:10.700 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: 8chan's founder,
Fredrick Brennan,

33:10.700 --> 33:13.400 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
decided enough was enough.

33:13.400 --> 33:15.600 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
>> The current administrators
of 8chan

33:15.600 --> 33:18.100 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
don't care that this
is happening.

33:18.100 --> 33:21.566 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: He urged that the
site he founded be shut down.

33:21.566 --> 33:23.333 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
8chan was dropped
by the companies

33:23.333 --> 33:24.700 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
that kept it up and running

33:24.700 --> 33:27.533 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:30%
on the internet,
and soon went dark.

33:30.100 --> 33:32.366 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
But it would be
a short-lived victory.

33:32.366 --> 33:33.600 align:start position:38.75% line:84.67% size:22.5%
>> You know,

33:33.600 --> 33:36.133 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
these white supremacist
groups adapt, right?

33:36.133 --> 33:39.066 align:start position:40.62% line:10% size:18.75%
It's like,
you take away their toy,

33:39.066 --> 33:42.000 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
and they're not going to just
sit around and do nothing.

33:42.000 --> 33:43.200 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
You know what I mean?

33:43.200 --> 33:45.133 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
They're gonna try to find
a new platform.

33:45.133 --> 33:47.500 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

33:47.500 --> 33:50.933 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: That new platform
would turn out to be Telegram,

33:50.933 --> 33:54.933 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
a messaging and social media app
started in 2013

33:54.933 --> 33:58.000 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
by Russian tech entrepreneur
Pavel Durov

33:58.000 --> 34:00.133 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
and his brother Nikolai.

34:00.133 --> 34:04.966 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> BANDLER: One of their chief
marketing pitches was

34:04.966 --> 34:07.400 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
that this would be a place
free of censorship,

34:07.400 --> 34:11.600 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
that it would be a place
where free speech was paramount,

34:11.600 --> 34:14.300 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
and it was also private
and secure.

34:14.300 --> 34:16.633 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
I'm starting a new document.

34:16.633 --> 34:18.733 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> THOMPSON: Open it up
and share it-- oh...

34:18.733 --> 34:21.566 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> BANDLER: And I'm calling it
"Letter to Pavel."

34:21.566 --> 34:24.100 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> THOMPSON: Telegram
is based in Dubai.

34:24.100 --> 34:26.333 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
It has close to a billion users,

34:26.333 --> 34:30.333 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
but only about 60 employees,
many of them engineers.

34:30.333 --> 34:33.433 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
From the start, Telegram took
an extreme approach

34:33.433 --> 34:34.766 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:26.25%
to free speech

34:34.766 --> 34:37.300 align:start position:38.75% line:10% size:20.63%
and offered
more powerful features

34:37.300 --> 34:41.500 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
than other platforms,
giving it mass appeal.

34:41.500 --> 34:45.400 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
So you can send encrypted
messages to your friends.

34:45.400 --> 34:47.733 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
You can create big chat groups,
where you have

34:47.733 --> 34:50.033 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
thousands of people chatting,

34:50.033 --> 34:54.100 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
or you can turn it into a sort
of one-way broadcast system,

34:54.100 --> 34:57.766 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
where you are pumping out your
propaganda and your message

34:57.766 --> 35:01.033 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
day after day
to a group of people

35:01.033 --> 35:04.266 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
who are subscribing
to your broadcast channel.

35:05.833 --> 35:08.866 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
>> BANDLER: Telegram, much like
the chans, was a platform

35:08.866 --> 35:10.433 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
where almost anything went.

35:10.433 --> 35:13.533 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
There was virtually
no moderation.

35:13.533 --> 35:16.766 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
This platform became
immensely useful

35:16.766 --> 35:22.166 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
for social justice activists
in repressive countries,

35:22.166 --> 35:25.833 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
and it also became a place
that was also useful

35:25.833 --> 35:28.700 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
for people committing crimes
and terrorists.

35:28.700 --> 35:32.900 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: In 2015, the app
became popular with ISIS.

35:32.900 --> 35:34.366 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
>> There's an app called
Telegram

35:34.366 --> 35:36.700 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
that more and more of members
of ISIS are using.

35:36.700 --> 35:39.166 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
>> Telegram became the preferred
communication method for ISIS.

35:39.166 --> 35:41.000 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:31.88%
The group used it

35:41.000 --> 35:42.966 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
to claim responsibility
for the Paris attacks...

35:42.966 --> 35:46.100 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: Under pressure
from European governments,

35:46.100 --> 35:49.866 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Telegram began to shut down
ISIS channels.

35:49.866 --> 35:53.733 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
But accelerationists
soon followed the ISIS example.

35:53.733 --> 35:56.033 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> Extremists started plotting
in a chat room called Telegram.

35:58.000 --> 36:01.200 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: By 2019, white
supremacists were flocking

36:01.200 --> 36:03.833 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
to Telegram from 8chan

36:03.833 --> 36:07.300 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
and from major platforms like
Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter,

36:07.300 --> 36:11.933 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
which were increasingly policing
content and banning users.

36:11.933 --> 36:13.366 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
There was an organized effort

36:13.366 --> 36:16.400 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
by white supremacists
and accelerationists

36:16.400 --> 36:18.500 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
to move on to Telegram.

36:18.500 --> 36:20.733 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
And they saw it
as their new home,

36:20.733 --> 36:23.233 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
and a place where maybe
they wouldn't be harassed

36:23.233 --> 36:26.366 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
and kicked off the platform
for a while.

36:26.366 --> 36:28.933 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
These are all people
who have met

36:28.933 --> 36:32.033 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
to encourage one another
to engage

36:32.033 --> 36:36.066 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
in acts of lethal terrorism
and industrial sabotage.

36:36.066 --> 36:41.333 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
This is a very militant,
aggressive, dangerous community.

36:44.600 --> 36:48.400 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
Nobody from Telegram
would agree to an interview.

36:48.400 --> 36:51.766 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
In a written statement,
the company said

36:51.766 --> 36:55.500 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
it "has always screened postings
for problematic content"

36:55.500 --> 37:00.466 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:52.5%
and "calls for violence from
any group are not tolerated."

37:01.866 --> 37:04.566 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
But on October 12, 2022,

37:04.566 --> 37:06.533 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
a young man who had spent years

37:06.533 --> 37:08.733 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
in accelerationist chats
on Telegram

37:08.733 --> 37:12.033 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
made the leap
from online extremist

37:12.033 --> 37:14.166 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
to real-world terrorist, 

37:14.166 --> 37:20.733 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
here, in Bratislava. 
(bell ringing)

37:20.733 --> 37:24.366 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

37:26.233 --> 37:29.300 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: That night, Radka
Trok  iarová had seen

37:29.300 --> 37:33.333 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
her two friends get gunned down
outside the Tepláre   bar.

37:33.333 --> 37:37.866 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
She'd also been shot,
twice, in the leg,

37:37.866 --> 37:41.000 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
but dragged herself to safety.

37:41.200 --> 37:45.766 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
>> (speaking Slovak):

38:00.400 --> 38:02.666 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
In the hours after the attack,

38:02.666 --> 38:05.700 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
as 19-year-old Juraj Kraj  ík
went on the run,

38:05.700 --> 38:08.400 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
he kept posting on social media.

38:09.633 --> 38:11.766 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
His handle was an acronym,

38:11.766 --> 38:17.466 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
"NTMA0315":
Never Take Me Alive March 15,

38:17.466 --> 38:20.633 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
an apparent reference
to the Christchurch attack.

38:20.633 --> 38:24.933 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
>> (speaking Slovak):

38:26.233 --> 38:29.433 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
>> MAREK MADRO:

38:33.366 --> 38:35.466 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Marek Madro is a psychologist

38:35.466 --> 38:39.133 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
who runs a youth crisis hotline
in Bratislava.

38:40.166 --> 38:44.733 align:start position:40.62% line:10% size:16.88%
>> MADRO:

38:49.166 --> 38:51.233 align:start position:40.62% line:10% size:16.88%
>> WOMAN:

38:51.233 --> 38:53.400 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
As the manhunt continued,

38:53.400 --> 38:55.666 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
the shooter was threatening
to kill himself.

38:58.700 --> 39:02.766 align:start position:40.62% line:10% size:16.88%
>> MADRO:

39:08.433 --> 39:09.600 align:start position:40.62% line:10% size:16.88%
(inhales)

39:46.500 --> 39:48.500 align:start position:40.62% line:84.67% size:16.88%
(exhales)

39:54.300 --> 39:56.833 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: I came here
to try to understand more

39:56.833 --> 39:59.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
about what had motivated
this 19-year-old

39:59.066 --> 40:02.966 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
to launch a terror attack
and then kill himself.

40:04.466 --> 40:06.000 align:start position:38.75% line:84.67% size:22.5%
At the time,

40:06.000 --> 40:08.700 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
the authorities examined
the shooter's manifesto,

40:08.700 --> 40:11.200 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
but little was known
about his online connections

40:11.200 --> 40:12.766 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
to far-right extremists,

40:12.766 --> 40:16.300 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
or who he'd been communicating
with about his plans.

40:16.300 --> 40:18.633 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
How's your morning going?
>> Not bad.

40:18.633 --> 40:20.100 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
I met the prosecutor

40:20.100 --> 40:23.066 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
who oversaw the investigation
of the attack.

40:23.066 --> 40:24.600 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
>> We knew about the manifesto,

40:24.600 --> 40:26.466 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
uh, when we were on
the crime scene already,

40:26.466 --> 40:28.166 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
because he published it,
I think,

40:28.166 --> 40:29.733 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
few hours before the attack.

40:29.733 --> 40:34.800 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
Now, that manifesto, if you read
it, 90% of that is anti-Semitic.

40:34.800 --> 40:38.800 align:start position:33.12% line:10% size:31.88%
Frankly speaking,
only a, a small part of it

40:38.800 --> 40:40.200 align:start position:35% line:10% size:30%
is against LGBT.

40:40.200 --> 40:41.733 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
The bulk of it is anti-Semitic.

40:41.733 --> 40:44.300 align:start position:36.88% line:10% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
What do you think led him

40:44.300 --> 40:46.766 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
to commit this act of terrorism

40:46.766 --> 40:50.600 align:start position:33.12% line:10% size:30%
and to subscribe
to this extremist ideology?

40:50.600 --> 40:52.166 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
>> Well, based on, uh...

40:52.166 --> 40:55.666 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
Of course, uh, he, he made it
very clear in the manifesto.

40:55.666 --> 40:58.800 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:56.25%
I mean, he was interested very
much in the Christchurch attack

40:58.800 --> 41:00.266 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:28.13%
in New Zealand,

41:00.266 --> 41:03.500 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
and in the attack committed
by John Earnest in California.

41:03.500 --> 41:05.666 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:18.75%
Those were
the role models for him.

41:06.766 --> 41:08.500 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
It was kind of, like,

41:08.500 --> 41:12.800 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
to a certain extent, you might
call it a, a copycat crime.

41:12.800 --> 41:15.500 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: Do you know if
the attacker was a member

41:15.500 --> 41:17.033 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
of any real-world groups?

41:17.033 --> 41:18.800 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
>> We were not able to establish

41:18.800 --> 41:20.333 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
that he was involved
in any groups.

41:20.333 --> 41:25.200 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
From the investigation, it seems
that he was a lone wolf.

41:26.333 --> 41:27.966 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
But as I dug deeper,

41:27.966 --> 41:30.400 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
a different story
began emerging.

41:33.166 --> 41:35.400 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
In his manifesto,
Kraj  ík had thanked

41:35.400 --> 41:37.200 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
the "Terrorgram Collective"

41:37.200 --> 41:40.033 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
for what he called its
"incredible writing,"

41:40.033 --> 41:44.600 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
"political texts,"
and "practical guides."

41:45.700 --> 41:47.733 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
I had already heard of
this group in 2019.

41:47.733 --> 41:51.533 align:start position:33.12% line:10% size:31.88%
It had started as
an informal network on Telegram

41:51.900 --> 41:54.466 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
At first, it's just a handful

41:54.466 --> 41:57.900 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
of chat rooms and channels
on Telegram.

41:57.900 --> 42:01.600 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
Then, it is bigger
and bigger and bigger.

42:01.600 --> 42:04.900 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
And finally,
it takes on a formal shape.

42:04.900 --> 42:07.333 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
And people within
that group say,

42:07.333 --> 42:08.633 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
"Now we're starting something

42:08.633 --> 42:10.233 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:13.13%
"called
the Terrorgram Collective,

42:10.233 --> 42:13.733 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
"and this is going to be
our organized arm

42:13.733 --> 42:16.533 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
"that is going to generate
in-depth propaganda,

42:16.533 --> 42:21.500 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
in-depth material
for this community."

42:22.600 --> 42:26.066 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
They're saying, "Hey, these
guys like Brenton Tarrant?

42:26.066 --> 42:27.700 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
"These people are heroes.

42:27.700 --> 42:28.900 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
"We'll call them 'saints.'

42:28.900 --> 42:31.300 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
"And you should act like them.

42:31.300 --> 42:34.566 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
"You should become a disciple
of Brenton Tarrant

42:34.566 --> 42:36.066 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
and go out and kill people."

42:40.366 --> 42:41.566 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
He posted that on Twitter?

42:41.566 --> 42:44.266 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
>> I think, but I have to check.

42:44.266 --> 42:46.733 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
>> THOMPSON: I had
been able to obtain a trove

42:46.733 --> 42:49.966 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:41.25%
of archived posts from
Telegram and other platforms.

42:51.233 --> 42:54.466 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
I teamed up with investigative
journalists Luká   Diko

42:54.466 --> 42:55.700 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
and Karin Sólymos,

42:55.700 --> 42:57.900 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
who had reported
on Terrorgram in the aftermath

42:57.900 --> 42:59.966 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
of the Bratislava shooting.

43:01.166 --> 43:04.033 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
In his manifesto,
Kraj  ík had also singled out

43:04.033 --> 43:07.333 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
a key individual from
the Terrorgram Collective,

43:07.333 --> 43:09.500 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
known as Slovakbro.

43:09.500 --> 43:11.066 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
Using the trove,

43:11.066 --> 43:15.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
we began to piece together
a picture of Slovakbro.

43:15.300 --> 43:17.700 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
Luká   came up with
a bunch of usernames.

43:17.700 --> 43:19.100 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
And I took those usernames

43:19.100 --> 43:20.900 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
and put them
everywhere I could find.

43:20.900 --> 43:22.833 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
And my understanding

43:22.833 --> 43:25.500 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
from looking at his
social media history is that

43:25.500 --> 43:29.333 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Slovakbro starts off being,
like, kind of a normie,

43:29.333 --> 43:33.300 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
and eventually, he gets into
accelerationism and terrorism.

43:33.300 --> 43:37.766 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
And you see the whole arc of his
change online.

43:37.766 --> 43:40.466 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
The posts showed
that Slovakbro was

43:40.466 --> 43:42.600 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
a founding member of
the Terrorgram community

43:42.600 --> 43:46.233 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
and one of its most prolific
content creators.

43:46.233 --> 43:49.666 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
Slovakbro is a big guy
in this world.

43:49.666 --> 43:52.933 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
He has thousands of people
in his channels.

43:52.933 --> 43:55.300 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
He's spreading
all kinds of stuff.

43:55.300 --> 43:57.533 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
Some of it is instructions.

43:57.533 --> 43:59.766 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
"This is how you do a crime
and you don't get caught."

43:59.766 --> 44:02.700 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
"Don't talk about, you know,
what you're gonna do on here."

44:02.700 --> 44:04.900 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
Some of it is inspirational.

44:04.900 --> 44:07.533 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
It's, like, "Here's a graphic
that's gonna inspire you

44:07.533 --> 44:08.800 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
to go kill people."

44:08.800 --> 44:11.166 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
Some of it is, is operational,
it's, like,

44:11.166 --> 44:12.600 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
"Here's a, a manual

44:12.600 --> 44:16.800 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
for making high-powered
explosive or to 3D-print a gun."

44:19.700 --> 44:21.366 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
Slovakbro's real identity

44:21.366 --> 44:22.866 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
was Pavol Be  adik,

44:22.866 --> 44:25.733 align:start position:20% line:10% size:60%
a 22-year-old Slovakian student.

44:27.600 --> 44:29.233 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
He'd been arrested and jailed

44:29.233 --> 44:31.733 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
months before
the Bratislava shootings

44:31.733 --> 44:35.333 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
and charged with more than
100 terrorism offenses

44:35.333 --> 44:37.566 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
stemming from
his Telegram posts.

44:40.533 --> 44:43.533 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:48.75%
We wanted to find out what
the Slovak authorities knew

44:43.533 --> 44:47.566 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
about any ties between him
and Juraj Kraj  ík.

44:47.566 --> 44:49.000 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
>> Were you able to establish

44:49.000 --> 44:51.600 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
if they were in any kind of
communication?

44:51.600 --> 44:54.100 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> Well, they, they were
in communication,

44:54.100 --> 44:55.833 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
but, but, because we, of course,

44:55.833 --> 44:58.600 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
interrogated
the person known, uh,

44:58.600 --> 45:02.033 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
as Slovakbro in this case,
and, yes,

45:02.033 --> 45:04.666 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
they did communicate,
but only very briefly.

45:04.666 --> 45:06.166 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:26.25%
>> So there...

45:06.166 --> 45:07.500 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: And this was a
direct message between the two?

45:07.500 --> 45:08.800 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> Yes, yes-- of course,
they didn't know that...

45:08.800 --> 45:11.266 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
They did not know
about their identities,

45:11.266 --> 45:12.333 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
but that was it.

45:12.333 --> 45:14.000 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
There was nothing, uh,

45:14.000 --> 45:16.266 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
nothing significant
in their communication.

45:16.266 --> 45:18.866 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> You mean that Slovakbro
didn't incite him...

45:18.866 --> 45:19.966 align:start position:42.5% line:79.33% size:11.25%
>> No.
>> ...to go and

45:19.966 --> 45:21.000 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
kill people?
>> No, not at all.

45:22.666 --> 45:23.966 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
But Slovak authorities

45:23.966 --> 45:25.766 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
didn't have the whole picture.

45:26.866 --> 45:29.900 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
The prosecutors say, "Oh, they
didn't really know each other.

45:29.900 --> 45:31.366 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
"They didn't communicate.

45:31.366 --> 45:33.433 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
They only had
one brief interaction."

45:34.800 --> 45:40.133 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
Before we came here,
I didn't know what Kraj  ík,

45:40.133 --> 45:43.233 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
the Bratislava attacker,
had done online.

45:43.233 --> 45:45.600 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
Didn't know who he was online.

45:45.600 --> 45:46.800 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
I didn't know
what he had posted.

45:48.333 --> 45:51.533 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
And when we were here, we
discovered what I believe is

45:51.533 --> 45:55.633 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
his handle, his account
in these Telegram chats,

45:55.633 --> 45:58.233 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
and it helped tell
a different story

45:58.233 --> 46:02.366 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
than what law enforcement
was telling.

46:04.866 --> 46:07.000 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
>> Can you go just one more up?

46:07.000 --> 46:08.800 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
To find Kraj  ík's handle,

46:08.800 --> 46:11.266 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
Luká   Diko and I
pored over thousands

46:11.266 --> 46:13.966 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
of archived Terrorgram chats
from the trove.

46:13.966 --> 46:15.100 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
>> Slovak's War Room.

46:15.100 --> 46:16.266 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
This is Slovak's War Room.

46:16.266 --> 46:18.233 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> That's the one, uh,
Slovakbro deleted.

46:18.233 --> 46:20.200 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
>> THOMSON: Yeah.
>> Yeah.

46:20.200 --> 46:21.966 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> THOMPSON: I started going
through these chats,

46:21.966 --> 46:24.266 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:39.38%
looking to figure out
who Juraj Kraj  ík was.

46:24.266 --> 46:25.333 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
Is he in these chats?

46:25.333 --> 46:27.200 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
Does he connect with Slovakbro?

46:27.200 --> 46:30.933 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
And then I found someone
speaking Slovak,

46:30.933 --> 46:32.500 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
and it wasn't Slovakbro.

46:32.500 --> 46:33.833 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
It was someone else.

46:33.833 --> 46:38.000 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
Then I thought, "Oh, this person
could be Juraj Kraj  ík."

46:38.000 --> 46:39.900 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
This is Slovakbro.
>> Yes.

46:39.900 --> 46:41.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> THOMPSON: And now he's
speaking in your language.

46:41.300 --> 46:45.866 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> Uh, it, it's, "Bobby, uh,
my friend, let's fight."

46:45.866 --> 46:49.433 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> THOMPSON: The user
went by the name "Bobby Bowie."

46:49.433 --> 46:54.033 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
These are chats with
another Terrorgram group.

46:54.033 --> 46:56.133 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
Zeroing in on Bobby Bowie

46:56.133 --> 47:01.666 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
revealed more than 500 posts in
Slovakbro's chats in late 2019,

47:01.666 --> 47:05.333 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
the early days of Terrorgram.

47:05.333 --> 47:07.633 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Then there's other language
in here

47:07.633 --> 47:09.433 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
that's like the language
in his manifesto.

47:09.433 --> 47:10.466 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
It's almost exactly.

47:11.566 --> 47:13.633 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
It soon became clear
that Bobby Bowie

47:13.633 --> 47:16.466 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
was Juraj Kraj  ík.

47:16.466 --> 47:19.366 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
This is his manifesto,
and he's talking about

47:19.366 --> 47:24.566 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
these memes that he saw on
8chan about Brenton Tarrant,

47:24.566 --> 47:26.466 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
the Christchurch attacker.

47:26.466 --> 47:29.900 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
In the posts on Telegram,

47:29.900 --> 47:31.700 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
he's talking about
the same exact thing--

47:31.700 --> 47:34.266 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
comparing Russia and America

47:34.266 --> 47:35.933 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
and saying they're both
controlled by Jews.

47:35.933 --> 47:37.733 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
All this stuff that's...
>> All the stuff that,

47:37.733 --> 47:40.966 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
that Kraj  ík mentions
in the manifesto.

47:40.966 --> 47:42.500 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Yeah.

47:42.500 --> 47:45.533 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:33.75%
We could now track
Kraj  ík's radicalization

47:45.533 --> 47:50.500 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
on Terrorgram and see what his
life was like before the attack.

47:53.000 --> 47:54.133 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
This is the apartment complex?

47:56.400 --> 47:57.966 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
>> THOMPSON: He had been living
a comfortable life

47:57.966 --> 48:00.400 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
with his family
in a middle-class neighborhood

48:00.400 --> 48:03.766 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
a few miles from the center
of Bratislava's Old Town.

48:04.866 --> 48:09.100 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
The chat logs show he'd spent
many hours a day on Terrorgram.

48:09.100 --> 48:11.466 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
You know, Juraj Kraj  ík
got on that platform,

48:11.466 --> 48:12.866 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
he was already a racist.

48:12.866 --> 48:15.566 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
But he was molded and shaped

48:15.566 --> 48:17.866 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
by the veterans on that platform

48:17.866 --> 48:20.266 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
who were really
looking for someone

48:20.266 --> 48:22.033 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
for the things
that they wanted to do.

48:23.433 --> 48:25.266 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
Kraj  ík was only 16,

48:25.266 --> 48:29.433 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:41.25%
getting primed for the
militant accelerationist cause,

48:29.433 --> 48:32.366 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
discussing the merits
of other so-called saints

48:32.366 --> 48:33.733 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
with Slovakbro,

48:33.733 --> 48:37.866 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
including synagogue attacker
John T. Earnest.

48:37.866 --> 48:43.433 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
There's conversations between
Juraj Kraj  ík and Pavol Be  adi

48:43.433 --> 48:45.700 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
where Pavol Be  adik says,

48:45.700 --> 48:48.933 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
"John Earnest down in
San Diego, he messed up.

48:48.933 --> 48:50.433 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
"He didn't kill enough people.

48:50.433 --> 48:52.566 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
"And he was running

48:52.566 --> 48:55.100 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
from these Jewish people
in the synagogue."

48:55.100 --> 48:57.466 align:start position:20% line:10% size:60%
He's, like, "That's a bad look--
that's bad optics.

48:57.466 --> 48:58.866 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
"You need to be better
than that.

48:58.866 --> 49:01.800 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
Train, prepare,
be a better killer."

49:01.800 --> 49:05.833 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
These are conversations that he
was having with Juraj Kraj  ík.

49:05.833 --> 49:07.366 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
It was all about killing.

49:08.833 --> 49:10.566 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
Kraj  ík was in.

49:10.566 --> 49:13.200 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
He soon began posting
about potential targets

49:13.200 --> 49:14.633 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
for terror attacks,

49:14.633 --> 49:18.700 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:26.25%
spending hours
in Slovakbro's chat.

49:18.700 --> 49:21.200 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:30%
In one instance,
posting his own photographs

49:21.200 --> 49:25.866 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
of LGBTQ protesters
at a climate rally.

49:25.866 --> 49:28.966 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
Amid the hundreds of posts
we looked at,

49:28.966 --> 49:30.166 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:28.13%
one popped out.

49:30.166 --> 49:31.300 align:start position:38.75% line:84.67% size:20.63%
This is it.

49:31.300 --> 49:33.200 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
This is the thing
that (bleep) blew my...

49:33.200 --> 49:34.933 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
This is what blew my mind.
>> Yeah.

49:34.933 --> 49:36.266 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
I'm scrolling through here,

49:36.266 --> 49:40.200 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
and then I see that
the attacker has posted

49:40.200 --> 49:43.666 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
about the place where the
attack happened-- years before.

49:45.433 --> 49:49.300 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
This is his username
talking about the place

49:49.300 --> 49:53.566 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
that Kraj  ík was going to go
shoot-- the cafe, the gay bar.

49:53.566 --> 49:56.866 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:15%
And then
there's all this discussion

49:56.866 --> 50:01.533 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
between Kraj  ík and Slovakbro
about attacking the place.

50:01.533 --> 50:02.866 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
And Slovakbro says,

50:02.866 --> 50:05.733 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
"I don't want to even use
nail bombs with that joint.

50:05.733 --> 50:07.633 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
"What I want to do
is so unprintable

50:07.633 --> 50:10.066 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:16.88%
that hell
is going to be preferable."

50:10.066 --> 50:12.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
And the guy we think is
the attacker says,

50:12.066 --> 50:13.733 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
"Just saying it
will instantly make

50:13.733 --> 50:17.400 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
a squad of federal agents appear
behind you and arrest you."

50:17.400 --> 50:22.200 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
So, this is from September.

50:22.200 --> 50:23.333 align:start position:42.5% line:84.67% size:15%
Of 2019.

50:23.333 --> 50:26.300 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
He'd been thinking about it
for years.

50:32.400 --> 50:35.933 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:41.25%
I brought the trove of
Terrorgram posts to London...

50:35.933 --> 50:38.933 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> This is an amazing
library of data.

50:38.933 --> 50:40.266 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
...where Pierre Vaux works

50:40.266 --> 50:42.433 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
as an open-source investigator.

50:42.433 --> 50:45.233 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> Once you start building up
a huge amount of data,

50:45.233 --> 50:47.433 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
you need to start
putting it into

50:47.433 --> 50:48.900 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
a different graphical setting,

50:48.900 --> 50:51.266 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
because otherwise, it becomes
overwhelming to read.

50:53.000 --> 50:55.466 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> THOMPSON: He created a
database from our chat archives,

50:55.466 --> 50:58.133 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
as well as other sources,
that showed how

50:58.133 --> 51:02.366 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
the Terrorgram network expanded
in the years after 2019

51:02.366 --> 51:04.633 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
and how Slovakbro
was central to it.

51:06.433 --> 51:08.366 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
>> This is Slovakbro,

51:08.366 --> 51:12.766 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
who ran a Telegram channel
called Slovak's Siege Shack.

51:12.766 --> 51:14.133 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
And the chat room
attached to that

51:14.133 --> 51:17.766 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
really had a sort of
who's who of

51:17.766 --> 51:20.266 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
the Nazi scene at that time
as members of it.

51:20.266 --> 51:22.733 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> THOMPSON: Oh, wow.
>> So you can see his, like,

51:22.733 --> 51:25.700 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
emergence in 2019.

51:25.700 --> 51:27.866 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
And these are people
mentioning him,

51:27.866 --> 51:30.266 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
and these are messages from him.

51:30.266 --> 51:32.566 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
>> THOMPSON: Yeah, interesting.

51:32.566 --> 51:35.433 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> Each of the lines here
is a forward or a mention.

51:35.433 --> 51:38.466 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
That's one channel sending
people to another channel.

51:38.466 --> 51:42.466 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
So this is a visualization
that really shows us

51:42.466 --> 51:44.666 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
where these people are talking,

51:44.666 --> 51:47.400 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
often quite candidly,
because of the perception

51:47.400 --> 51:49.233 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
of privacy that Telegram brings.

51:49.233 --> 51:52.466 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Especially as some of these
are private groups.

51:52.466 --> 51:54.700 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: He was able
to find more evidence

51:54.700 --> 51:58.300 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
of Kraj  ík's activity
in the Terrorgram community.

51:58.300 --> 52:01.400 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> So Bobby Bowie had come up
lots of times in this dataset

52:01.400 --> 52:03.533 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
because he was coming up
as a member of these chats,

52:03.533 --> 52:05.400 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
but we didn't know who he was.

52:05.400 --> 52:08.600 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
You're looking for what nodes
turn up in networks

52:08.600 --> 52:10.733 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
over and over again.

52:10.733 --> 52:13.366 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
So Kraj  ík's account
is Bob Bowie,

52:13.366 --> 52:15.066 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
and we can expand that one.

52:15.066 --> 52:16.833 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
He was a very active user

52:16.833 --> 52:18.333 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
of all these channels.
>> THOMPSON: Wow.

52:18.333 --> 52:20.100 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
>> I've got another
40 channels he was in.

52:20.100 --> 52:22.800 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
>> THOMPSON: Holy (bleep).
These are all chats?

52:22.800 --> 52:24.100 align:start position:42.5% line:10% size:13.13%
>> Yep.

52:24.100 --> 52:26.833 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Oh, wow.

52:26.833 --> 52:28.900 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
So I knew he was in 14 Words.

52:28.900 --> 52:30.866 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
He's in some, like,
kind of Q stuff.

52:30.866 --> 52:32.033 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
He's in some, like,

52:32.033 --> 52:33.566 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
trucker stuff.
>> Yeah, like this.

52:33.566 --> 52:37.333 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: But, like, that's
a lot more than I knew.

52:37.333 --> 52:39.200 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
>> Especially,
it looks like Slovakbro

52:39.200 --> 52:42.166 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
was bringing him into
his much smaller chats.

52:42.166 --> 52:43.933 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
What's really clear now

52:43.933 --> 52:45.866 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
is that Slovakbro
had been trying for years

52:45.866 --> 52:48.200 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
to influence people
to engage in terrorism.

52:48.200 --> 52:49.700 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
And he was successful.

52:49.700 --> 52:52.100 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
Juraj Kraj  ík is his product.

52:52.100 --> 52:55.033 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
Juraj Kraj  ík is somebody
that he influenced.

53:03.833 --> 53:06.933 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
We took our reporting on
Slovakbro and Juraj Kraj  ík

53:06.933 --> 53:09.700 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
to Slovak authorities.

53:09.700 --> 53:12.700 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
It's really become
clear to me that, uh,

53:12.700 --> 53:15.466 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
Juraj Kraj  ík and Slovakbro

53:15.466 --> 53:19.466 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
had ongoing conversations
for years.

53:19.466 --> 53:22.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> But, you know, for us,
this communication was, uh,

53:22.300 --> 53:25.100 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
not a normal communication.

53:25.100 --> 53:26.966 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Peter Kysel is the prosecutor

53:26.966 --> 53:30.233 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
who oversaw the investigation
into Slovakbro.

53:30.233 --> 53:33.566 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
But he said he'd never seen
the 2019 messages

53:33.566 --> 53:35.833 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
between the two men.
>> The fact is

53:35.833 --> 53:39.166 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
that we were not aware
of these communications.

53:39.166 --> 53:40.900 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
The prosecutional office

53:40.900 --> 53:42.600 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
was not aware
about this communication.

53:42.600 --> 53:43.733 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
>> THOMPSON: You were surprised

53:43.733 --> 53:45.400 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:30%
when you learned
that they were having

53:45.400 --> 53:47.200 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
these extensive conversations?
>> Right, right, yes.

53:47.200 --> 53:51.166 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
Yeah, because there was
a communication in 2019,

53:51.166 --> 53:53.066 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
and the attack was in 2022.

53:53.066 --> 53:55.000 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
So, there was a really, gap.

53:55.000 --> 53:56.866 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
>> THOMPSON: Yeah, and I believe

53:56.866 --> 54:00.000 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
that that connection persisted
past 2019.

54:00.000 --> 54:01.233 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
But it seems to me like

54:01.233 --> 54:05.933 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Slovakbro lied to you about
his level of connection.

54:05.933 --> 54:07.400 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
>> Yeah, it's possible.

54:11.066 --> 54:14.700 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: Throughout 2020,
Terrorgram was evolving

54:14.700 --> 54:16.833 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
from a loose network of accounts

54:16.833 --> 54:19.666 align:start position:44.38% line:79.33% size:7.5%
into
a prolific propaganda machine

54:19.666 --> 54:23.133 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:37.5%
made up of dozens of
accelerationist channels,

54:23.133 --> 54:26.066 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
with Slovakbro at its center.

54:26.066 --> 54:28.500 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
>> Hey, everybody,
and welcome to HateLab.

54:28.500 --> 54:31.033 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
All right, Slovakbro has,
is joining us

54:31.033 --> 54:32.633 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
for the very first time
on HateLab.

54:32.633 --> 54:37.400 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> THOMPSON: That year,
Pavol Be  adik, as Slovakbro,

54:37.400 --> 54:40.600 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
was interviewed on
a Terrorgram-related podcast.

54:40.600 --> 54:43.533 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
>> (Slovakbro):

54:54.100 --> 54:56.133 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> THOMPSON: Law enforcement
in the U.S. and abroad

54:56.133 --> 54:58.066 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
was taking notice.

54:58.066 --> 55:00.966 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> What's interesting
about this collective

55:00.966 --> 55:04.200 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
is how transnational it is,

55:04.200 --> 55:08.800 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
and how interconnected
some of the players are in it.

55:08.800 --> 55:10.766 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: Rebecca Weiner
is deputy commissioner

55:10.766 --> 55:15.033 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
for intelligence and
counterterrorism at the NYPD.

55:15.033 --> 55:17.033 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
Her unit was monitoring
Terrorgram

55:17.033 --> 55:20.666 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
as it stepped up production
of extremist content.

55:20.666 --> 55:26.033 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> The influence of Slovakbro
in this world was quite strong,

55:26.033 --> 55:29.933 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
not just around
Terrorgram Collective

55:29.933 --> 55:32.166 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
and propaganda output,

55:32.166 --> 55:35.933 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
but also encouraging people
to take next steps into action.

55:35.933 --> 55:40.533 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
>> (Slovakbro):

55:40.533 --> 55:42.700 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
>> Yeah, Sieg Heil, brother.
>> (Slovakbro):

55:42.700 --> 55:44.633 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
>> All right, cool.
>> (Slovakbro):

55:46.666 --> 55:49.433 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
By 2021, Slovakbro and others

55:49.433 --> 55:53.033 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
had begun calling themselves
the Terrorgram Collective

55:53.033 --> 55:57.033 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
and released an official
publication under the new name.

55:58.600 --> 56:01.133 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> This was the first time
that we started to see

56:01.133 --> 56:02.666 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
the bringing together of

56:02.666 --> 56:03.833 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
some of the ideological output

56:03.833 --> 56:06.533 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
of saints culture, uh, and of

56:06.533 --> 56:08.133 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
the sort of broader aesthetic

56:08.133 --> 56:09.900 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
of, of the Terrorgram Collective

56:09.900 --> 56:11.900 align:start position:44.38% line:79.33% size:7.5%
with
specific instructional material

56:11.900 --> 56:15.033 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
that was calling for attacks
against specific groups

56:15.033 --> 56:16.866 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
and really, uh, generating

56:16.866 --> 56:18.966 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
a clearer violent
extremist ideology.

56:20.366 --> 56:22.633 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
It was posted as a PDF,

56:22.633 --> 56:25.800 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
designed to be shared widely.

56:25.800 --> 56:28.966 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
More official Terrorgram
publications would follow.

56:30.533 --> 56:31.866 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:26.25%
>> So you have

56:31.866 --> 56:34.500 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
the sanctification of martyrs
who've come before,

56:34.500 --> 56:38.866 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
combined with the ideology
that you see at play

56:38.866 --> 56:40.600 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
in many of these manifestos,

56:40.600 --> 56:45.800 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:56.25%
neo-Nazi propaganda, targeting
guidance and tactical guidance,

56:45.800 --> 56:49.566 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
how to make
certain kinds of explosives,

56:49.566 --> 56:52.000 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:18.75%
as well as
who you might want to target.

56:53.333 --> 56:55.833 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
In October 2021, a new series

56:55.833 --> 56:58.666 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
of Terrorgram publications
began to emerge

56:58.666 --> 57:00.833 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
called "The List":

57:00.833 --> 57:03.533 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
alleged assassination targets
with addresses,

57:03.533 --> 57:08.000 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
maps of their homes, and
rationales for killing.

57:08.000 --> 57:11.933 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
And it's basically just
this ongoing hit list

57:11.933 --> 57:14.133 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
of dozens and dozens of people--

57:14.133 --> 57:16.333 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
American corporate leaders,

57:16.333 --> 57:21.766 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
government officials,
academics, and others.

57:21.766 --> 57:24.400 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Telegram tried to shut down
user accounts

57:24.400 --> 57:25.966 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
that were posting "The List."

57:25.966 --> 57:27.533 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
In its statement to us,

57:27.533 --> 57:30.233 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
the company said it had been
removing groups and channels

57:30.233 --> 57:33.666 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
using the Terrorgram name
since it first surfaced,

57:33.666 --> 57:36.366 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
and that it was harder
for criminals to open accounts

57:36.366 --> 57:39.766 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
on Telegram
than other platforms.

57:41.166 --> 57:44.966 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
But in many cases,
we saw in the archived posts

57:44.966 --> 57:49.033 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:48.75%
that users had just opened
new accounts and new channels

57:49.033 --> 57:52.566 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
and continued posting
about assassinations.

57:52.566 --> 57:54.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> The nature of Telegram
as an app

57:54.300 --> 57:58.133 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:52.5%
is that many of the channels
are highly ephemeral in nature.

57:58.133 --> 58:01.300 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
They come and go and
are able to be easily replaced.

58:01.300 --> 58:03.933 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
It's very easy to sidestep
enforcement attempts that,

58:03.933 --> 58:06.666 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
that really try to use
a Whac-a-Mole approach

58:06.666 --> 58:08.600 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:26.25%
to a takedown.

58:14.266 --> 58:15.766 align:start position:38.75% line:10% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
The targeting of Americans

58:15.766 --> 58:18.566 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
triggered an international
criminal investigation,

58:18.566 --> 58:22.600 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
involving law enforcement
in the U.S. and Europe.

58:22.600 --> 58:26.600 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
In May 2022,
Slovakbro was arrested

58:26.600 --> 58:28.233 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
and was ultimately sentenced

58:28.233 --> 58:30.166 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
to six years in prison

58:30.166 --> 58:31.900 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
for more than 100 terrorism
offenses.

58:36.066 --> 58:39.500 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
But the Terrorgram Collective
lived on.

58:39.500 --> 58:42.533 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> Terrorgram is not reliant
on any one individual

58:42.533 --> 58:45.366 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
or entity to make it what it is.

58:45.366 --> 58:51.333 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
What we often see is, these
leaders in the Terrorgram space

58:51.333 --> 58:52.466 align:start position:38.75% line:84.67% size:22.5%
come and go.

58:52.466 --> 58:54.333 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
They fall off,
they build back brands,

58:54.333 --> 58:57.133 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
they gain prominence,
they lose prominence.

58:57.133 --> 58:59.066 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:26.25%
It's very much
a fluid environment,

58:59.066 --> 59:02.100 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
where no one person owns
a commanding stake of it.

59:02.100 --> 59:04.600 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
>> THOMPSON: Researcher
Matt Kriner has studied

59:04.600 --> 59:07.066 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
how other Terrorgram leaders
emerged

59:07.066 --> 59:09.700 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
after the arrest of Slovakbro,

59:09.700 --> 59:13.733 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
including one known
as MissGorehound.

59:13.733 --> 59:16.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> MissGorehound is one of
the aliases that we know to be

59:16.300 --> 59:18.766 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
a central figure within
the Terrorgram ecosystem.

59:18.766 --> 59:21.166 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
She has been a strong proponent

59:21.166 --> 59:23.333 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
of the development of
the Terrorgram publications,

59:23.333 --> 59:26.366 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:45%
ran a number of channels
that had direct influence

59:26.366 --> 59:28.866 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
and ownership
over the saints culture.

59:30.000 --> 59:32.700 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
MissGorehound picked that up
and said, "This is a model.

59:32.700 --> 59:35.266 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
"We can actually turn this
into a very consolidated

59:35.266 --> 59:38.200 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:52.5%
"pipeline for radicalization
and mobilization of individuals

59:38.200 --> 59:40.133 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
to carry out
more terrorist attacks."

59:45.333 --> 59:48.333 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> So there's a lot of overlap
between these people.

59:48.333 --> 59:51.766 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:26.25%
MissGorehound,
otherwise known as RWBC,

59:51.766 --> 59:53.800 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
standing for
Right-Wing Book Club,

59:53.800 --> 59:56.633 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
who runs another range
of Telegram channels

59:56.633 --> 59:58.100 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
in the Terrorgram network.

59:58.100 --> 01:00:00.333 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
We can select that,
and we can see

01:00:00.333 --> 01:00:02.966 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:33.75%
that she's got her
Cat Enjoyers Anonymous channel.

01:00:02.966 --> 01:00:04.866 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:16.88%
She's got
the Right-Wing Book Club one.

01:00:04.866 --> 01:00:09.600 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
She's got Ryder 88,
Ryder Returns, Miss Gore 88.

01:00:09.600 --> 01:00:12.300 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
Now, when we highlight
these groups,

01:00:12.300 --> 01:00:16.766 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
again, we get a lot of shared
channels with MissGorehound.

01:00:16.766 --> 01:00:19.666 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
This is a closed chat,

01:00:19.666 --> 01:00:23.300 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
but these individuals
are really active in it.

01:00:23.300 --> 01:00:26.566 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
>> THOMPSON: The database showed
that by mid-2022,

01:00:26.566 --> 01:00:29.166 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Juraj Kraj  ík was a member
of a group chat

01:00:29.166 --> 01:00:30.766 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
run by MissGorehound.

01:00:31.900 --> 01:00:34.566 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> If you look at someone
like MissGorehound,

01:00:34.566 --> 01:00:36.000 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
they're super-connected

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.133 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
because they're creating
loads of channels,

01:00:38.133 --> 01:00:39.900 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
and they're infiltrating
loads of channels.

01:00:39.900 --> 01:00:42.666 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
Whereas someone like Kraj  ík

01:00:42.666 --> 01:00:44.733 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
are the opposite of that,
in a way.

01:00:44.733 --> 01:00:47.000 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
They're just really desperate
to get into this.

01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:52.333 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
They've found a wonderful world
of friendly, like-minded people

01:00:52.333 --> 01:00:55.300 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
with their funny memes
that they can consume.

01:00:55.300 --> 01:00:56.600 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
And, you know,
it gives them a sense

01:00:56.600 --> 01:00:58.200 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
of camaraderie and belonging.

01:00:58.200 --> 01:01:01.600 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: What you see in,
in the chats that I've read

01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:05.333 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
is that he's getting ideas
from the older people.

01:01:05.333 --> 01:01:09.666 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:48.75%
He's expressing his desire
to target specific targets.

01:01:09.666 --> 01:01:12.666 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
And he's being pushed in
this very violent direction,

01:01:12.666 --> 01:01:15.500 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
and also this direction
of sort of self-immolation,

01:01:15.500 --> 01:01:18.900 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
that it's heroic to go and kill,
and then kill yourself.

01:01:21.533 --> 01:01:26.900 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:56.25%
MissGorehound is alleged to be
this woman: Dallas Erin Humber.

01:01:26.900 --> 01:01:29.766 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
She's pleaded not guilty
to terrorism charges

01:01:29.766 --> 01:01:33.633 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
and is in jail awaiting trial.

01:01:33.633 --> 01:01:36.733 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
Her identity was originally
exposed and posted online

01:01:36.733 --> 01:01:38.366 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
by a group of activists.

01:01:38.366 --> 01:01:42.300 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
>> (voice altered):

01:01:42.500 --> 01:01:44.533 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: One of them
agreed to speak to us

01:01:44.533 --> 01:01:46.200 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
if we granted them anonymity.

01:01:46.200 --> 01:01:49.466 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
Tell me about Dallas
and her life.

01:01:49.466 --> 01:02:00.100 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
>> (voice altered):

01:02:00.100 --> 01:02:02.266 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: What was her role
in the Terrorgram Collective,

01:02:02.266 --> 01:02:04.766 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
from what you can tell?

01:02:04.766 --> 01:02:13.166 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
>> (voice altered):

01:02:13.166 --> 01:02:15.633 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
>> THOMPSON: It was
a new kind of propaganda--

01:02:15.633 --> 01:02:17.966 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
manifesto audiobooks.

01:02:20.133 --> 01:02:25.933 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
>> (voice altered):

01:02:25.933 --> 01:02:28.166 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
>> "Mass immigration
will disenfranchise us,

01:02:28.166 --> 01:02:31.033 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
"subvert our nations,
destroy our communities...

01:02:31.033 --> 01:02:33.900 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: The shooter
audiobooks became a signature.

01:02:33.900 --> 01:02:36.700 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> ...long before low
fertility rates ever could."

01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:39.133 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
The audiobooks were posted to

01:02:39.133 --> 01:02:41.433 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
Terrorgram channels 
linked to her.

01:02:41.433 --> 01:02:42.533 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:24.38%
How important

01:02:42.533 --> 01:02:45.733 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
would you say she was

01:02:45.733 --> 01:02:49.200 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
in the Terrorgram Collective,
in the Terrorgram scene?

01:02:49.200 --> 01:02:53.133 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
>> (voice altered):

01:03:18.533 --> 01:03:20.766 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:52.5%
>> THOMPSON: We could see in
the trove of Terrorgram chats

01:03:20.766 --> 01:03:22.500 align:start position:33.12% line:10% size:33.75%
that MissGorehound
was working with

01:03:22.500 --> 01:03:24.500 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
another prolific propagandist

01:03:24.500 --> 01:03:27.800 align:start position:33.12% line:10% size:31.88%
with the username
Ban This Channel, or BTC.

01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:33.733 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
>> We can zoom in
on an individual,

01:03:33.733 --> 01:03:35.200 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
so here we've got BTC,

01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:39.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
which is the alias behind
several Telegram channels,

01:03:39.300 --> 01:03:41.233 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
which all have similar initials.

01:03:41.233 --> 01:03:42.400 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
So, Bowl Turds Coin,

01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:45.866 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
Ban This Channel,
and Big (bleep) Chica.

01:03:45.866 --> 01:03:49.666 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
Now, BTC is a super-spreader

01:03:49.666 --> 01:03:52.900 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
in terms of Telegram
group membership.

01:03:52.900 --> 01:03:57.700 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:03:57.700 --> 01:03:58.866 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
>> BANDLER:
BTC was the white whale

01:03:58.866 --> 01:04:01.000 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
of the Terrorgram Collective.

01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:04.900 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
Everyone knew about his posts,

01:04:04.900 --> 01:04:06.533 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
but no one knew who he was.

01:04:06.533 --> 01:04:09.133 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
And this, for us,
was a big puzzle.

01:04:10.600 --> 01:04:14.533 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
So BTC first emerged
on YouTube,

01:04:14.533 --> 01:04:17.866 align:start position:36.88% line:10% size:26.25%
and his shtick
was creating content

01:04:17.866 --> 01:04:20.800 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
that was controversial enough
to get him banned.

01:04:21.766 --> 01:04:23.200 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:31.88%
He created dozens

01:04:23.200 --> 01:04:26.900 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
of channels and groups
on Telegram.

01:04:29.133 --> 01:04:31.833 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> I wasn't sure whether
BTC was one person,

01:04:31.833 --> 01:04:32.833 align:start position:33.12% line:10% size:31.88%
whether it was a,

01:04:32.833 --> 01:04:33.866 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
maybe a small group of people

01:04:33.866 --> 01:04:34.866 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
that were putting these,

01:04:34.866 --> 01:04:35.800 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
these videos together.

01:04:39.966 --> 01:04:41.766 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> BANDLER: When did you
first become aware of BTC?

01:04:41.766 --> 01:04:43.900 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
>> I first became aware of BTC

01:04:43.900 --> 01:04:47.466 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
through a specific video
that BTC produced

01:04:47.466 --> 01:04:49.366 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
called "The Last Battle,"

01:04:49.366 --> 01:04:50.833 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
on the Telegram channel
that I was monitoring.

01:04:50.833 --> 01:04:53.433 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
And then started seeing
other videos

01:04:53.433 --> 01:04:56.166 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
circulating on Telegram

01:04:56.166 --> 01:04:59.900 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
that were also, allegedly,
made by this BTC.

01:04:59.900 --> 01:05:02.166 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
>> We're building,
we're organizing...

01:05:02.166 --> 01:05:04.733 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> They serve the purpose
of propaganda to do

01:05:04.733 --> 01:05:07.833 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
things like recruit new people
and sustain members

01:05:07.833 --> 01:05:09.933 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
and, in this case,
encouraging violence.

01:05:09.933 --> 01:05:11.600 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:05:11.600 --> 01:05:14.233 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
>> It's about to be
a white boy summer.

01:05:14.233 --> 01:05:17.800 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
>> THOMPSON: BTC posted
around 120 videos,

01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:22.400 align:start position:20% line:10% size:60%
many of them with graphic racist
and anti-Semitic violence,

01:05:22.400 --> 01:05:25.000 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
clips of the
Christchurch attack video,

01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:27.233 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
and homophobic imagery.

01:05:28.966 --> 01:05:31.333 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
Terrorgram's
most infamous video

01:05:31.333 --> 01:05:34.666 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
was a BTC-MissGorehound
collaboration.

01:05:34.666 --> 01:05:37.633 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:05:37.633 --> 01:05:39.366 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> We know that the narrator
is Dallas Humber.

01:05:39.366 --> 01:05:42.000 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
>> 105 white men and women
of action have...

01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:43.300 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
>> So, "White Terror"

01:05:43.300 --> 01:05:45.633 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
is meant for somebody
who's been indoctrinated,

01:05:45.633 --> 01:05:47.033 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
and the push is,

01:05:47.033 --> 01:05:48.933 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
"If you do commit
an act of violence,

01:05:48.933 --> 01:05:50.466 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
"this is what you can expect.

01:05:50.466 --> 01:05:51.933 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
You will be celebrated, too."

01:05:51.933 --> 01:05:56.600 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:05:58.200 --> 01:06:00.700 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> Breaking news right now:
the Justice Department

01:06:00.700 --> 01:06:02.366 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
charging two people,
saying that they were leading

01:06:02.366 --> 01:06:04.333 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
a white supremacist group

01:06:04.333 --> 01:06:07.133 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
that wanted
to ignite a race war...

01:06:07.133 --> 01:06:09.366 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
In September 2024,

01:06:09.366 --> 01:06:12.300 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
the mystery of BTC's identity
was solved.

01:06:13.566 --> 01:06:16.266 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
>> The indictment
charges in 15 counts...

01:06:16.266 --> 01:06:17.666 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
>> THOMPSON: Federal prosecutors
announced

01:06:17.666 --> 01:06:19.566 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
they had arrested two leaders

01:06:19.566 --> 01:06:21.433 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
of the Terrorgram Collective.

01:06:22.900 --> 01:06:25.333 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
One was Dallas Humber.

01:06:25.333 --> 01:06:29.533 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
The other, a 37-year-old man
named Matthew Allison.

01:06:29.533 --> 01:06:31.266 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
>> BANDLER:
We were very familiar

01:06:31.266 --> 01:06:33.266 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
with Dallas Humber.

01:06:33.266 --> 01:06:34.766 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:39.38%
The second person was

01:06:34.766 --> 01:06:38.933 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
a 37-year-old
we'd never heard of.

01:06:38.933 --> 01:06:42.700 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
But as we talked with
researchers over the next day,

01:06:42.700 --> 01:06:46.033 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
it became pretty clear to us
that Matt Allison

01:06:46.033 --> 01:06:48.433 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
was none other than BTC.

01:06:51.333 --> 01:06:53.266 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
>> THOMPSON: Allison
lived in Boise, Idaho.

01:06:53.266 --> 01:06:57.000 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:06:57.000 --> 01:07:00.233 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> BANDLER: We wanted to find
out who Matt Allison really was.

01:07:01.366 --> 01:07:03.700 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
We went to Boise and
started talking with

01:07:03.700 --> 01:07:08.166 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
people who knew Matt Allison
in the real world.

01:07:08.166 --> 01:07:09.266 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:28.13%
(knock at door)

01:07:09.266 --> 01:07:11.433 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
(door opens)
Hi, I'm James Bandler.

01:07:11.433 --> 01:07:13.266 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
Are you a friend of Allison's,
Mr. Allison's?

01:07:13.266 --> 01:07:16.800 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
And the story that we unraveled

01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:18.933 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
was, frankly, very disturbing,

01:07:18.933 --> 01:07:21.800 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
because this man was living
a complete double life.

01:07:24.566 --> 01:07:26.200 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
We learned that in public,

01:07:26.200 --> 01:07:28.200 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
Matthew Allison
was an aspiring DJ

01:07:28.200 --> 01:07:31.100 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
who worked menial jobs
and partied with friends

01:07:31.100 --> 01:07:34.300 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
in the local electronic dance
music community.

01:07:34.300 --> 01:07:35.500 align:start position:31.25% line:74% size:37.5%
>> Oh, it's a panda.

01:07:35.500 --> 01:07:37.466 align:start position:29.38% line:74% size:39.38%
Yo! What's happening?

01:07:37.466 --> 01:07:39.466 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:24.38%
>> (laughing)

01:07:39.466 --> 01:07:40.966 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
But federal investigators say

01:07:40.966 --> 01:07:42.900 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
that in private,
he was helping run

01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:44.900 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
the Terrorgram Collective.

01:07:44.900 --> 01:07:47.633 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> BANDLER: We quickly
got a picture of a person

01:07:47.633 --> 01:07:49.166 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
who was very well-liked,

01:07:49.166 --> 01:07:54.100 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
who hung out with a very
multicultural group of friends,

01:07:54.100 --> 01:07:56.966 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
and a person
who was also a gay man.

01:07:58.433 --> 01:08:01.666 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
So, while he was living

01:08:01.666 --> 01:08:04.566 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
the life of a gay man in Boise,

01:08:04.566 --> 01:08:07.233 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
on Telegram,
he was making posts

01:08:07.233 --> 01:08:11.266 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
celebrating the murders
of gay people in Bratislava.

01:08:11.266 --> 01:08:16.600 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:08:23.866 --> 01:08:26.666 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
>> THOMPSON: Matthew Allison
agreed to talk to James,

01:08:26.666 --> 01:08:28.833 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
against the advice
of his lawyer.

01:08:31.666 --> 01:08:34.500 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:18.75%
No cameras
were allowed in the jail.

01:08:37.433 --> 01:08:40.333 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:28.13%
(phone ringing)

01:08:40.333 --> 01:08:43.933 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
After the interview,
James called me.

01:08:43.933 --> 01:08:46.133 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
Hey, so what happened?

01:08:46.133 --> 01:08:47.900 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
>> BANDLER: So, he came out,

01:08:47.900 --> 01:08:51.000 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
he's exactly like we were told.

01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:53.700 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
Tall, rangy, skinny guy.

01:08:53.700 --> 01:08:55.033 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:24.38%
He confirmed,

01:08:55.033 --> 01:08:57.733 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
he said he didn't confess,
like, to the crimes,

01:08:57.733 --> 01:09:02.000 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
he just confessed
to being BTC to the FBI.

01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:05.066 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:48.75%
So he said he urged people
to just be legal on the channel

01:09:05.066 --> 01:09:07.566 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
and to not actually

01:09:07.566 --> 01:09:10.600 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
incite actual violent acts.

01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:11.700 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:28.13%
He chalks it up

01:09:11.700 --> 01:09:13.133 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
to being an artist.

01:09:13.133 --> 01:09:15.066 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
"This is my free expression,
I'm an artist,"

01:09:15.066 --> 01:09:17.433 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
and he's really proud of
a lot of his work.

01:09:17.433 --> 01:09:19.600 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
So he's not contrite,

01:09:19.600 --> 01:09:21.333 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
he's not taking it back,
he's not...

01:09:21.333 --> 01:09:22.666 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
>> BANDLER: No, no, no.

01:09:22.666 --> 01:09:25.833 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
I don't think
he's contrite at all, um,

01:09:25.833 --> 01:09:27.900 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
about it, and I think
he's going to push

01:09:27.900 --> 01:09:32.700 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
a hardcore free speech,
you know, case on it if he can.

01:09:32.700 --> 01:09:35.900 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
He described himself
as a video artist,

01:09:35.900 --> 01:09:40.133 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
a person who was creating
art and content

01:09:40.133 --> 01:09:42.733 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
that was protected
under the First Amendment.

01:09:42.733 --> 01:09:44.933 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
He denied being a terrorist.

01:09:44.933 --> 01:09:50.066 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
He denied wanting to incite
people to commit murder.

01:09:50.066 --> 01:09:53.800 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
He admitted that he was
an ethno-nationalist.

01:09:55.233 --> 01:09:57.200 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
And he says,
"I believe white people

01:09:57.200 --> 01:09:59.600 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
need to band together,"
meaning to "tribe up."

01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:02.033 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
"Tribe up" was how he put it.

01:10:02.033 --> 01:10:04.500 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:24.38%
And he called
the indictment bull(bleep).

01:10:04.500 --> 01:10:08.166 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:10:08.166 --> 01:10:09.566 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Prosecutors allege

01:10:09.566 --> 01:10:11.433 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
that Dallas Humber
and Matthew Allison

01:10:11.433 --> 01:10:13.200 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
were both in direct contact

01:10:13.200 --> 01:10:16.133 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
with the Bratislava shooter,
Juraj Kraj  ík,

01:10:16.133 --> 01:10:18.733 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
in the year before his attack.

01:10:18.733 --> 01:10:21.033 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
The indictment accuses Humber

01:10:21.033 --> 01:10:22.833 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
of pushing a message
in her posts:

01:10:22.833 --> 01:10:25.566 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
to become a Terrorgram saint,

01:10:25.566 --> 01:10:29.600 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
you had to be white
and kill those deemed inferior.

01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:32.100 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
The mission was clear:

01:10:32.100 --> 01:10:35.633 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
to indoctrinate younger people
on Terrorgram.

01:10:37.800 --> 01:10:39.166 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
She wrote about one user:

01:10:39.166 --> 01:10:40.800 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
"He's, like, 18 years old

01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:43.100 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
"and seems very impressionable.

01:10:43.100 --> 01:10:45.133 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
I'm trying to radicalize him."

01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:49.166 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
I found posts from 
July 2022 where

01:10:49.166 --> 01:10:51.633 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
she was promoting
a new Terrorgram publication.

01:10:52.933 --> 01:10:54.533 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:43.13%
Soon after its release,

01:10:54.533 --> 01:10:57.100 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
Juraj Kraj  ík was
talking to her about it.

01:10:57.100 --> 01:10:58.433 align:start position:36.88% line:84.67% size:24.38%
Look at this.

01:10:58.433 --> 01:11:00.666 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:15%
He says,
"Just finished reading (bleep).

01:11:00.666 --> 01:11:01.966 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
It's excellent."

01:11:01.966 --> 01:11:03.933 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
And then this is the U.S. person

01:11:03.933 --> 01:11:05.966 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
who's the Terrorgrammer, Dallas.

01:11:05.966 --> 01:11:08.300 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
And it says, "I
haven't finished reading it yet,

01:11:08.300 --> 01:11:11.066 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
but it's a literary
and artistic masterpiece."

01:11:11.066 --> 01:11:14.266 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
And she says, "What were
some of your favorite passages?"

01:11:16.566 --> 01:11:19.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
I know that Juraj Kraj  ík
and Dallas Humber

01:11:19.300 --> 01:11:20.333 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
were in contact.

01:11:20.333 --> 01:11:22.566 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
And I know that Dallas Humber

01:11:22.566 --> 01:11:25.100 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
was repeatedly encouraging

01:11:25.100 --> 01:11:28.400 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
Kraj  ík to engage
in terrorism and

01:11:28.400 --> 01:11:30.866 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
cheerleading for terrorism--
that's her own words.

01:11:30.866 --> 01:11:32.333 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
She says, "I love those, too.

01:11:32.333 --> 01:11:34.500 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
"I hope the next saints
out there

01:11:34.500 --> 01:11:36.700 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
read those passages
and feel inspired."

01:11:36.700 --> 01:11:38.133 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
>> Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
>> Mm-hmm.

01:11:41.833 --> 01:11:43.733 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
At the same time,

01:11:43.733 --> 01:11:44.966 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:26.25%
Juraj Kraj  ík
had started posting

01:11:44.966 --> 01:11:46.900 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
on a private Twitter channel.

01:11:46.900 --> 01:11:48.366 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
That's the Twitter?
>> Yeah.

01:11:48.366 --> 01:11:50.566 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
We have all the screenshots.

01:11:50.566 --> 01:11:53.233 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
It was the diary of

01:11:53.233 --> 01:11:56.233 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
a fully radicalized
accelerationist.

01:11:56.233 --> 01:11:59.266 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
>> "We find ourselves
in a critical situation.

01:11:59.266 --> 01:12:01.966 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
"We will need to radically
alter the course of history,

01:12:01.966 --> 01:12:05.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
and only radical action
can do that."

01:12:05.066 --> 01:12:07.300 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
In mid-August 2022,

01:12:07.300 --> 01:12:10.300 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
Kraj  ík starts to do
reconnaissance.

01:12:10.300 --> 01:12:14.033 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
He posts about targeting
the prime minister of Slovakia.

01:12:14.033 --> 01:12:15.966 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:31.88%
>> "#EduardHeger,

01:12:15.966 --> 01:12:18.066 align:start position:38.75% line:84.67% size:20.63%
"#NTMA0315,

01:12:18.066 --> 01:12:19.933 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
test and preparation."

01:12:21.666 --> 01:12:24.600 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
>> There were several targets.

01:12:24.600 --> 01:12:26.400 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
The perpetrator

01:12:26.400 --> 01:12:29.100 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
made a list of targets
based on

01:12:29.100 --> 01:12:32.200 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
the difficulty to commit
a successful attack.

01:12:32.200 --> 01:12:35.800 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: Jakub Gajdo   was
a counter-terrorism official

01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:38.566 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
assigned to the Kraj  ík case.

01:12:38.566 --> 01:12:39.900 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
>> Preparing on the attack,

01:12:39.900 --> 01:12:42.466 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
he took several pictures
of the potential targets,

01:12:42.466 --> 01:12:45.500 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
the highest-ranked place
of hitting the prime minister.

01:12:45.500 --> 01:12:47.666 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
And I think it's this one.

01:12:47.666 --> 01:12:50.033 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
Because you can
identify the bush,

01:12:50.033 --> 01:12:51.600 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
and identify
the two windows

01:12:51.600 --> 01:12:53.333 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
that are on the picture,
actually.

01:12:53.333 --> 01:12:55.200 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> THOMPSON: Oh, yeah.
It looks like it.

01:12:56.466 --> 01:12:57.533 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
(shutter clicking)

01:12:57.533 --> 01:12:59.300 align:start position:40.62% line:84.67% size:18.75%
August 15.

01:12:59.300 --> 01:13:01.400 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
Kraj  ík tweets three selfies

01:13:01.400 --> 01:13:03.266 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
in front of the home
of the prime minister,

01:13:03.266 --> 01:13:05.500 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
along with the caption...

01:13:05.500 --> 01:13:08.033 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> "Just taking a look
at some places."

01:13:08.033 --> 01:13:10.666 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
>> In his rankings
of the targets,

01:13:10.666 --> 01:13:13.700 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
an attack on a Jewish community
should follow.

01:13:13.700 --> 01:13:15.233 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Later that day,

01:13:15.233 --> 01:13:17.500 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
Kraj  ík tweets sarcastically...

01:13:17.500 --> 01:13:21.833 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> "As a proud LGBTQIAP+ Jew,
I would like you all

01:13:21.833 --> 01:13:24.333 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:60%
"to join me at the Chabad office
today,

01:13:24.333 --> 01:13:29.133 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:37.5%
before we proceed to
the LGBTQIAP+ bar for a drink."

01:13:29.133 --> 01:13:32.166 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> THOMPSON: Attached are
two more selfies:

01:13:32.166 --> 01:13:34.866 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
one in front of a Jewish
community center,

01:13:34.866 --> 01:13:36.800 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
the other in front of
his final target,

01:13:36.800 --> 01:13:39.666 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
the Tepláre   bar.

01:13:40.700 --> 01:13:41.966 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
In the coming weeks,

01:13:41.966 --> 01:13:45.266 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
his tweets reflect
his commitment to violence.

01:13:45.266 --> 01:13:47.466 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
>> "I don't expect to make it.

01:13:47.466 --> 01:13:50.566 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
In all likelihood, I will die
in the course of the operation."

01:13:50.566 --> 01:13:52.133 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
>> THOMPSON: September 6.

01:13:52.133 --> 01:13:56.033 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
>> "I want to damage the System
to the best of my abilities."

01:13:56.033 --> 01:13:57.466 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
>> THOMPSON: September 16.

01:13:57.466 --> 01:13:59.266 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
>> "Accelerationism means

01:13:59.266 --> 01:14:01.500 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
helping the System
collapse faster."

01:14:01.500 --> 01:14:02.766 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: October 10.

01:14:02.766 --> 01:14:05.233 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
>> "People who I consider
heroes and role models:

01:14:05.233 --> 01:14:08.500 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
Brenton Tarrant
and John T. Earnest."

01:14:08.500 --> 01:14:10.400 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
And finally,

01:14:10.400 --> 01:14:12.300 align:start position:38.75% line:84.67% size:20.63%
October 11.

01:14:12.300 --> 01:14:14.100 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
>> "I have made my decision."

01:14:18.300 --> 01:14:21.666 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:14:25.533 --> 01:14:27.200 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
The next night,

01:14:27.200 --> 01:14:30.233 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
when Kraj  ík was on the run
after his attack,

01:14:30.233 --> 01:14:33.033 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
U.S. prosecutors say
he sent a direct message

01:14:33.033 --> 01:14:35.400 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
to Matthew Allison-- BTC.

01:14:36.900 --> 01:14:38.266 align:start position:40.62% line:84.67% size:16.88%
He wrote:

01:14:38.266 --> 01:14:41.266 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
"Not sure how much time
I have, but it's happening."

01:14:42.566 --> 01:14:46.400 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
They allege he also
sent Allison his manifesto.

01:14:46.400 --> 01:14:49.700 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
It was posted on several
accounts linked to BTC.

01:14:51.133 --> 01:14:54.333 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
MissGorehound's accounts
also announced the news.

01:14:54.333 --> 01:14:57.166 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
Juraj Kraj  ík was hailed as

01:14:57.166 --> 01:14:59.100 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
"Terrorgram's very first saint."

01:14:59.100 --> 01:15:01.500 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
>> We mourn Saint Kraj  ík...

01:15:01.500 --> 01:15:02.733 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
>> THOMPSON: A few days later,

01:15:02.733 --> 01:15:06.066 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
she released the manifesto
as an audiobook.

01:15:06.066 --> 01:15:07.933 align:start position:35% line:10% size:30%
>> His manifesto
is absolute (bleep)ing fire.

01:15:07.933 --> 01:15:09.333 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: Here was someone
that they had

01:15:09.333 --> 01:15:11.666 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
successfully indoctrinated

01:15:11.666 --> 01:15:14.266 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
and encouraged to kill,
and he'd gone out and done it.

01:15:21.633 --> 01:15:23.766 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:26.25%
By the time of
the Bratislava attack,

01:15:23.766 --> 01:15:26.600 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
law enforcement
was already closing in

01:15:26.600 --> 01:15:28.433 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
on the Terrorgram Collective.

01:15:30.500 --> 01:15:33.433 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
The downfall of
the Terrorgram Collective

01:15:33.433 --> 01:15:36.000 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
starts with the arrest
of Pavol Be  adik.

01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:38.466 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
He gets arrested in 2022,

01:15:38.466 --> 01:15:42.966 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:48.75%
and then you see a cascade
of arrests around the world

01:15:42.966 --> 01:15:47.266 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
of people who are
both collective leaders

01:15:47.266 --> 01:15:48.800 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
and people who are responding

01:15:48.800 --> 01:15:50.333 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
to the collective's propaganda

01:15:50.333 --> 01:15:52.866 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
and part of this broader
Terrorgram community.

01:15:52.866 --> 01:15:54.366 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
>> The FBI disrupted a plot...

01:15:54.366 --> 01:15:56.766 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
>> An 18-year-old's
accused in a plot

01:15:56.766 --> 01:15:59.133 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:18.75%
to destroy
a PSE&G power plant...

01:15:59.133 --> 01:16:00.833 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
>> THOMPSON:
Authorities would arrest

01:16:00.833 --> 01:16:03.633 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
around a dozen people
allegedly tied to the group,

01:16:03.633 --> 01:16:06.733 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
including Dallas Humber
and Matthew Allison.

01:16:08.066 --> 01:16:09.600 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
They were charged with

01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:12.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
leading a transnational
terrorist organization,

01:16:12.066 --> 01:16:15.866 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
encouraging hate crimes
and terrorist attacks.

01:16:15.866 --> 01:16:18.500 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
>> Are these arrests
the end of Terrorgram?

01:16:18.500 --> 01:16:20.600 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
You may have a, a collapse

01:16:20.600 --> 01:16:23.133 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
specifically of
this particular network,

01:16:23.133 --> 01:16:25.066 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
but is that the end?
Absolutely not.

01:16:25.066 --> 01:16:27.533 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
>> Neo-Nazis walk through
Nashville...

01:16:27.533 --> 01:16:29.566 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
>> A conspiracy by white
supremacists

01:16:29.566 --> 01:16:32.466 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:41.25%
to attack a portion of
the Northwest's power grid.

01:16:32.466 --> 01:16:34.100 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> These groups come and go
all the time.

01:16:34.100 --> 01:16:35.666 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
Individuals come and go
all the time.

01:16:35.666 --> 01:16:37.766 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
>> ...the group chanting
"white power"

01:16:37.766 --> 01:16:40.133 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:33.75%
and other racially
provocative language.

01:16:40.133 --> 01:16:41.400 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
>> White power!

01:16:41.400 --> 01:16:42.433 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
>> And unfortunately,

01:16:42.433 --> 01:16:44.400 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
there's no indications

01:16:44.400 --> 01:16:46.533 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
that these ideas
and emotions and practices

01:16:46.533 --> 01:16:48.666 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
that are associated
with things like Terrorgram

01:16:48.666 --> 01:16:50.100 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
are going anywhere.

01:16:50.100 --> 01:16:51.433 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> Hate crimes have been
on the rise

01:16:51.433 --> 01:16:52.933 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
for the past several years...

01:16:52.933 --> 01:16:55.100 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
>> Especially given
the broader climate

01:16:55.100 --> 01:16:57.966 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
that exists within our society.

01:16:57.966 --> 01:17:00.000 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
There will be new Terrorgrams

01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:02.300 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
that take its place
by another name,

01:17:02.300 --> 01:17:05.000 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
and we will continue to see
this kind of extremism

01:17:05.000 --> 01:17:07.300 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:52.5%
propagated through platforms

01:17:07.300 --> 01:17:08.900 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
of various sorts,
not just Telegram.

01:17:11.000 --> 01:17:13.133 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> THOMPSON: The U.S.,
U.K., and Australia

01:17:13.133 --> 01:17:15.066 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
have officially
designated Terrorgram

01:17:15.066 --> 01:17:17.366 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
as a transnational
terrorist group.

01:17:18.900 --> 01:17:21.766 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
And Telegram, the platform,

01:17:21.766 --> 01:17:23.566 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
is facing its own troubles.

01:17:23.566 --> 01:17:25.833 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:26.25%
>> Pavel Durov
has been arrested...

01:17:25.833 --> 01:17:27.366 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
>> ...for allegedly
failing to moderate

01:17:27.366 --> 01:17:29.033 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
criminal activity
on the platform.

01:17:29.033 --> 01:17:31.033 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
>> So, in August 2024,

01:17:31.033 --> 01:17:34.333 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:33.75%
we saw the founder
of Telegram, Pavel Durov,

01:17:34.333 --> 01:17:36.300 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
arrested and charged
on the basis of

01:17:36.300 --> 01:17:38.733 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:33.75%
alleged complicity
in the spread of

01:17:38.733 --> 01:17:40.566 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:52.5%
a range of different illegal
content on his platform,

01:17:40.566 --> 01:17:42.533 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
from child sexual abuse
material,

01:17:42.533 --> 01:17:45.066 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
through to engagement
in drug trafficking.

01:17:45.066 --> 01:17:47.466 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
This is a hugely
significant moment

01:17:47.466 --> 01:17:51.466 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
in really showing how far
the platform had come

01:17:51.466 --> 01:17:53.500 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
and how authorities
were frustrated by

01:17:53.500 --> 01:17:55.166 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
its unwillingness
to take actions.

01:17:55.166 --> 01:17:56.600 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
This is really unprecedented.

01:17:58.366 --> 01:18:01.033 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
After Durov's arrest,
he publicly pledged

01:18:01.033 --> 01:18:02.766 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
to work more closely
with law enforcement

01:18:02.766 --> 01:18:05.766 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
on action against illegal
content on the platform,

01:18:05.766 --> 01:18:07.733 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:16.88%
including
providing I.P. addresses

01:18:07.733 --> 01:18:10.700 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
in cases of legitimate
warrants being served.

01:18:12.266 --> 01:18:15.466 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:54.38%
>> THOMPSON: Durov has called
the charges misguided

01:18:15.466 --> 01:18:18.233 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
for trying to hold a CEO
personally responsible

01:18:18.233 --> 01:18:20.900 align:start position:20% line:79.33% size:58.13%
for crimes committed by a third
party. 

01:18:23.533 --> 01:18:25.233 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
Telegram told us,
while it is still

01:18:25.233 --> 01:18:27.400 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:22.5%
dedicated to
upholding free speech,

01:18:27.400 --> 01:18:31.033 align:start position:40.62% line:79.33% size:18.75%
it now has
around 750 contractors

01:18:31.033 --> 01:18:36.033 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
to moderate problematic content.

01:18:36.033 --> 01:18:39.300 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
It said since 2022, it has
partnered with a

01:18:39.300 --> 01:18:43.466 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
counter-extremism group
to remove more than 129 million

01:18:43.466 --> 01:18:44.800 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
pieces of content.

01:18:45.900 --> 01:18:48.600 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:54.38%
>> BANDLER: Telegram is still

01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:50.600 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:28.13%
one of the more
lawless places.

01:18:52.633 --> 01:18:54.133 align:start position:27.5% line:84.67% size:45%
The Terrorgram channels,

01:18:54.133 --> 01:18:56.533 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
a lot of them have disappeared
or gone dark,

01:18:56.533 --> 01:18:59.300 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
but you can still find

01:18:59.300 --> 01:19:02.600 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
plenty of awful content
on Telegram.

01:19:02.600 --> 01:19:07.266 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:41.25%
Even five months after
Matthew Allison was arrested,

01:19:07.266 --> 01:19:09.333 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
you could still go on Telegram

01:19:09.333 --> 01:19:11.733 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
and find all his racist videos:

01:19:11.733 --> 01:19:13.666 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
The ones urging people to kill,

01:19:13.666 --> 01:19:16.100 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
the assassination manuals.

01:19:18.500 --> 01:19:21.400 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:48.75%
It wasn't until we pointed
this out to Telegram

01:19:21.400 --> 01:19:23.766 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:26.25%
that they took
all this content down.

01:19:26.200 --> 01:19:28.833 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:19:28.833 --> 01:19:31.400 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
>> Texas and Florida have both
passed laws

01:19:31.400 --> 01:19:32.833 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
restricting tech platforms

01:19:32.833 --> 01:19:35.966 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
from moderating content
and blocking political views.

01:19:35.966 --> 01:19:38.300 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
>> Does the First Amendment
protect these companies--

01:19:38.300 --> 01:19:40.666 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
Facebook, TikTok, YouTube--

01:19:40.666 --> 01:19:42.800 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
from curating content?

01:19:42.800 --> 01:19:45.700 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> THOMPSON: For years now,
social media companies

01:19:45.700 --> 01:19:47.533 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
have sort of been trying
to balance two things:

01:19:47.533 --> 01:19:50.100 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
how to make their platforms safe

01:19:50.100 --> 01:19:52.466 align:start position:36.88% line:79.33% size:26.25%
and then also,
how to give people

01:19:52.466 --> 01:19:54.700 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
a place where they can
express themselves.

01:19:54.700 --> 01:19:56.966 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
>> Republicans have argued

01:19:56.966 --> 01:19:58.800 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:45%
there's too much content
moderation on social media.

01:19:58.800 --> 01:20:00.166 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
Democrats often say

01:20:00.166 --> 01:20:01.500 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
there is not enough.

01:20:01.500 --> 01:20:03.700 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
>> THOMPSON: The debate recently

01:20:03.700 --> 01:20:05.500 align:start position:29.38% line:84.67% size:41.25%
has been about whether

01:20:05.500 --> 01:20:08.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:43.13%
the policing of content
has gone too far,

01:20:08.066 --> 01:20:10.800 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
and whether content moderation

01:20:10.800 --> 01:20:13.733 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:60%
basically amounts to censorship.

01:20:13.733 --> 01:20:15.533 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
>> Hundreds of Twitter accounts

01:20:15.533 --> 01:20:17.033 align:start position:20% line:10% size:60%
belonging to far-right activists

01:20:17.033 --> 01:20:19.166 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
and QAnon theorists
have been reinstated.

01:20:19.166 --> 01:20:23.066 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: That debate
is going to keep going.

01:20:23.066 --> 01:20:24.633 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:41.25%
>> We're gonna get rid
of fact-checkers

01:20:24.633 --> 01:20:26.166 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:30%
and replace them
with Community Notes.

01:20:26.166 --> 01:20:28.766 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:45%
>> THOMPSON: But this is
what the Terrorgram story

01:20:28.766 --> 01:20:32.700 align:start position:35% line:79.33% size:30%
is about, is the
extreme end of all this.

01:20:32.700 --> 01:20:35.533 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
What do you do as a company

01:20:35.533 --> 01:20:38.966 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:37.5%
when you have people
on your platform saying,

01:20:38.966 --> 01:20:42.633 align:start position:29.38% line:79.33% size:39.38%
"Let's go kill folks,
let's assassinate people,

01:20:42.633 --> 01:20:44.333 align:start position:33.12% line:79.33% size:31.88%
let's do sabotage
and terrorism."

01:20:44.333 --> 01:20:45.433 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:48.75%
How do you deal with that?

01:20:45.433 --> 01:20:49.866 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:20:49.866 --> 01:20:52.100 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
>> We call upon governments

01:20:52.100 --> 01:20:54.033 align:start position:35% line:84.67% size:30%
around the world

01:20:54.033 --> 01:20:57.466 align:start position:21.88% line:84.67% size:56.25%
to bring an end to hate speech

01:20:57.466 --> 01:21:00.600 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
and the politics of fear.

01:21:01.766 --> 01:21:05.800 align:start position:23.75% line:79.33% size:50.63%
>> BANDLER: What we've seen
through the Terrorgram story

01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:09.766 align:start position:21.88% line:79.33% size:56.25%
is that there are consequences
to unfettered free speech,

01:21:09.766 --> 01:21:12.400 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
to having the influencers
out there

01:21:12.400 --> 01:21:15.400 align:start position:31.25% line:79.33% size:35.63%
advocating violence
or mass murder.

01:21:17.266 --> 01:21:19.466 align:start position:20% line:84.67% size:58.13%
>> Thousands of people gathered

01:21:19.466 --> 01:21:22.833 align:start position:25.62% line:79.33% size:46.88%
at a vigil in Slovakia to
commemorate two people killed

01:21:22.833 --> 01:21:24.466 align:start position:33.12% line:84.67% size:33.75%
outside a gay bar.

01:21:24.466 --> 01:21:26.100 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
>> (speaking Slovak):

01:21:30.066 --> 01:21:32.800 align:start position:38.75% line:79.33% size:20.63%
>> BANDLER:
If you look at what happened

01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:34.700 align:start position:25.62% line:84.67% size:46.88%
over the last five years,

01:21:34.700 --> 01:21:37.300 align:start position:23.75% line:84.67% size:50.63%
you have to ask a question:

01:21:37.300 --> 01:21:39.233 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:35.63%
what have we reaped

01:21:39.233 --> 01:21:41.266 align:start position:31.25% line:84.67% size:37.5%
as a result of this?

01:21:41.266 --> 01:21:45.866 align:start position:27.5% line:79.33% size:41.25%
What new whirlwind are
we throwing ourselves into?

01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:52.066 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:21:54.266 --> 01:21:56.700 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:39.38%
>> (speaking Slovak):

01:22:22.666 --> 01:22:25.600 align:start position:46.25% line:84.67% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:22:35.766 --> 01:22:37.566 align:start position:33.12% line:10% size:33.75%
>> NARRATOR: Go to
pbs.org/frontline for more

01:22:37.566 --> 01:22:39.600 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:35.63%
reporting from our 
partners at ProPublica.

01:22:39.600 --> 01:22:42.700 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:41.25%
>> Telegram, much like
the chans, was a platform

01:22:42.700 --> 01:22:44.300 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
where almost anything went.

01:22:44.300 --> 01:22:46.300 align:start position:20% line:10% size:60%
>> NARRATOR: And see more of our
collaborations

01:22:46.300 --> 01:22:47.833 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
on extremism in America.

01:22:47.833 --> 01:22:48.933 align:start position:20% line:10% size:58.13%
>> Tell me about your  T-shirt.

01:22:48.933 --> 01:22:50.900 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
What are you saying here?

01:22:50.900 --> 01:22:52.466 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
>> It says what it says.

01:22:52.466 --> 01:22:53.566 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:52.5%
>> What do you mean by that?

01:22:53.566 --> 01:22:54.800 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:45%
You're down for fascism?

01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:56.633 align:start position:23.75% line:10% size:50.63%
Is that what you're saying?

01:22:56.633 --> 01:22:57.966 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:46.88%
>> NARRATOR: Connect with
FRONTLINE on Facebook,

01:22:57.966 --> 01:23:00.433 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
Instagram, and X and
stream anytime on

01:23:00.433 --> 01:23:03.866 align:start position:27.5% line:10% size:43.13%
the PBS app, YouTube or
pbs.org/frontline.

01:23:24.366 --> 01:23:25.366 align:start position:38.75% line:10% size:22.5%
Captioned by

01:23:25.366 --> 01:23:26.366 align:start position:25.62% line:10% size:48.75%
Media Access Group at WGBH

01:23:26.366 --> 01:23:28.800 align:start position:35% line:10% size:28.13%
access.wgbh.org

01:23:32.533 --> 01:23:34.866 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:54.38%
>> For more on this and other
"FRONTLINE" programs,

01:23:34.866 --> 01:23:39.033 align:start position:31.25% line:10% size:37.5%
visit our website at
pbs.org/frontline.

01:23:39.033 --> 01:23:53.900 align:start position:46.25% line:10% size:5.63%
♪ ♪

01:23:53.900 --> 01:23:57.100 align:start position:21.88% line:10% size:56.25%
FRONTLINE's "The Rise and Fall
of Terrorgram"

01:23:57.100 --> 01:24:00.000 align:start position:29.38% line:10% size:41.25%
is available on Amazon
Prime Video.

01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:04.800 align:start position:46.25% line:10% size:5.63%
♪ ♪