WEBVTT

00:21.000 --> 00:23.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
>> The dictatorship of Bashar al
Assad is crumbling.

00:23.433 --> 00:25.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> NARRATOR: Correspondent
Martin Smith investigates

00:25.300 --> 00:27.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
the rise of Ahmad Al Sharaa,

00:27.066 --> 00:29.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
from Al-Qaeda commander to
Syrian leader.

00:29.600 --> 00:32.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> I don’t know of anyone who
accurately predicted he was

00:32.433 --> 00:35.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
likely to pose a real threat to
the Assad regime.

00:35.033 --> 00:36.700 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> NARRATOR: And the country’s
uncertain future.

00:40.900 --> 00:43.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> There are still extremist
elements,

00:43.133 --> 00:45.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
Mr. al Sharaa is walking a
tightrope.

00:45.800 --> 00:49.800 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> NARRATOR: Now on FRONTLINE,
Syria After Assad.

01:17.633 --> 01:21.533 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

01:21.533 --> 01:27.533 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
(cars honking
in celebration)

01:30.400 --> 01:35.400 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
(honking continues)

01:35.400 --> 01:41.600 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
(crowd cheering)

01:41.600 --> 01:44.066 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(honking continues)

01:44.066 --> 01:49.566 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
(celebratory gunfire)

01:49.566 --> 01:54.800 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
(crowd cheering)

01:54.800 --> 01:57.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
(cheering and honking continue)

01:57.600 --> 02:00.633 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
(celebratory gunfire)

02:03.333 --> 02:05.733 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> WOMAN (speaking Arabic):

02:19.933 --> 02:22.000 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
(crowd cheering)

02:23.466 --> 02:27.266 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> (speaking Arabic):

02:27.266 --> 02:28.866 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
>> We've been seeing
these amazing images all day

02:28.866 --> 02:30.000 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
coming out of Syria, right,

02:30.000 --> 02:31.700 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
of tens of thousands of people

02:31.700 --> 02:33.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
out on the streets celebrating.

02:33.633 --> 02:36.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Celebrating a new Syria,
and also tasting freedom

02:36.900 --> 02:39.000 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
after decades of repression.

02:39.000 --> 02:41.800 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> MAN (speaking Kermanji):

02:49.666 --> 02:53.566 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
(crowds cheering)

02:53.566 --> 02:57.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
>> Quite simply,
no one saw this coming.

02:57.433 --> 03:00.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
>> Bashar al Assad
has clung on to power

03:00.233 --> 03:01.766 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
through years of civil war.

03:01.766 --> 03:03.133 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50%
But now,
a new rebel movement

03:03.133 --> 03:06.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
has managed to topple his regime
in less than two weeks.

03:06.533 --> 03:10.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
(crowd cheering)

03:10.266 --> 03:12.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
>> What we've been
seeing from the rebel leadership

03:12.600 --> 03:14.266 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
is a clear attempt to signal

03:14.266 --> 03:16.533 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
that they want
an inclusive Syria

03:16.533 --> 03:18.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
and that they want
to avoid more conflict.

03:18.633 --> 03:21.933 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
The leader-- al-Jolani-- has
even interestingly, you know,

03:21.933 --> 03:23.866 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
dropped his jihadi
nom de guerre.

03:23.866 --> 03:26.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
He now calls himself
by his original birth name,

03:26.400 --> 03:27.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
Ahmed al-Sharaa.

03:27.533 --> 03:29.100 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
You know,
even that is a signal

03:29.100 --> 03:30.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
that he is not
trying to impose

03:30.566 --> 03:33.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
his jihadist position.

03:33.300 --> 03:34.566 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
>> AHMED AL-SHARAA
(speaking Arabic):

03:41.866 --> 03:43.100 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
(crowds cheering and clapping)

03:43.100 --> 03:45.133 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> MAN (speaking Arabic):

03:48.833 --> 03:50.200 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
>> We are tracking

03:50.200 --> 03:53.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
one of the most extraordinary
events in Middle East history.

03:53.500 --> 03:57.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
This will have a profound impact
on the region and beyond.

03:57.833 --> 03:59.466 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> There is real joy here,

03:59.466 --> 04:01.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
but there is also real concern.

04:01.766 --> 04:04.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
No one knows what's
going to happen next.

04:06.100 --> 04:08.833 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
(crowd chanting fading out)

04:12.666 --> 04:14.533 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
(motors rumbling)

04:17.933 --> 04:22.200 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
(din of traffic)

04:25.333 --> 04:27.400 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

04:36.466 --> 04:38.400 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
>> He was right here
when this place was hit.

04:38.400 --> 04:40.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
>> MARTIN SMITH:
I met Ahmed al-Sharaa in 2021,

04:40.500 --> 04:42.833 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
in Syria's Idlib province.

04:42.833 --> 04:44.700 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

04:46.533 --> 04:47.833 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> It's not Times Square.

04:47.833 --> 04:49.266 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
>> SMITH: My cameraman and I

04:49.266 --> 04:51.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
were the first Western
journalists to meet him.

04:51.100 --> 04:53.033 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
(turn signal clicking)

04:53.033 --> 04:55.100 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
At the time,
he went by his nom de guerre,

04:55.100 --> 04:57.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Abu Mohammad al-Jolani.

04:58.600 --> 05:00.333 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
He was also then a wanted man

05:00.333 --> 05:03.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
with a ten million-dollar
bounty on his head.

05:03.700 --> 05:05.233 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
And he had a long history

05:05.233 --> 05:06.933 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5%
as a jihadist.

05:06.933 --> 05:09.266 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(explosion booming)

05:09.266 --> 05:12.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
At age 21, al-Jolani
joined al-Qaeda in Iraq

05:12.600 --> 05:13.966 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
to fight
and kill Americans.

05:13.966 --> 05:15.500 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(explosion booming)

05:15.500 --> 05:18.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Captured by U.S. forces,

05:18.033 --> 05:20.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
he spent five years
in Iraqi prisons,

05:20.033 --> 05:21.666 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
including Abu Ghraib

05:21.666 --> 05:23.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
and Camp Bucca.

05:23.266 --> 05:25.400 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

05:28.600 --> 05:29.933 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
>> SMITH: Soon after
he was released,

05:29.933 --> 05:31.366 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
he came back to Syria

05:31.366 --> 05:33.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
and formed an al-Qaeda
branch to fight Assad.

05:33.933 --> 05:36.800 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

05:41.000 --> 05:42.533 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: By the time we met,

05:42.533 --> 05:44.800 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
al-Jolani had
broken ties with al-Qaeda

05:44.800 --> 05:46.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
and was trying
to moderate his image,

05:46.466 --> 05:49.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
to get the world
to reconsider him.

05:49.766 --> 05:52.133 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

05:56.833 --> 05:58.566 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
He took us to a camp of

05:58.566 --> 06:00.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
internally displaced Syrians,

06:00.900 --> 06:02.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
where he assured
the residents

06:02.833 --> 06:04.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
that he was planning
to defeat Assad

06:04.966 --> 06:06.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
and send them home.

06:06.633 --> 06:09.700 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

06:20.766 --> 06:24.466 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: Al-Jolani's key ally
in the region was Turkey.

06:24.466 --> 06:28.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
It was Turkish intelligence
that had taken us into Idlib,

06:28.133 --> 06:30.566 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
so al-Jolani could be heard.

06:30.566 --> 06:34.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
But at the time, Jolani's
odds of victory were very long.

06:34.600 --> 06:37.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
Assad controlled
most of the country.

06:37.866 --> 06:41.000 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

06:44.033 --> 06:45.666 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
>> SMITH: However,
with his army--

06:45.666 --> 06:47.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
Hayat Tahrir-al-Sham,
or HTS--

06:47.500 --> 06:49.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
al-Jolani was determined

06:49.533 --> 06:51.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
to strike at the heart of
the Assad regime

06:51.800 --> 06:53.933 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
and march straight
to the capital.

06:53.933 --> 06:59.333 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

07:02.533 --> 07:05.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: All together,
I spent seven days in Idlib.

07:05.633 --> 07:08.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
Al-Jolani struck me as
remarkably open.

07:09.400 --> 07:11.300 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
At one point,
we were taken to

07:11.300 --> 07:13.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
his military command
headquarters.

07:13.200 --> 07:18.200 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> HTS OFFICER
(speaking Arabic):

07:18.700 --> 07:20.466 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
Al-Jolani had come to review

07:20.466 --> 07:22.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
the current situation
on their frontlines.

07:22.833 --> 07:25.300 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

07:25.300 --> 07:26.666 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
>> SMITH: They were
facing pressure from

07:26.666 --> 07:28.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
Assad's principal allies,
Iran and Russia.

07:28.666 --> 07:31.133 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> HTS OFFICER:

07:34.433 --> 07:38.800 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

07:38.800 --> 07:44.633 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> HTS OFFICER:

07:50.666 --> 07:52.066 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
So, are the Russians flying,

07:52.066 --> 07:53.833 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
ah, drones over this area?

07:53.833 --> 07:55.166 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> HTS OFFICER:

08:03.533 --> 08:04.566 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

08:04.566 --> 08:06.800 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> HTS OFFICER:

08:06.800 --> 08:09.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
>> SMITH: I hear it,
I hear it.

08:10.100 --> 08:12.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
(plane flying overhead)

08:12.233 --> 08:14.433 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> HTS OFFICER:

08:17.466 --> 08:19.800 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
(indistinct
shouting over radio)

08:19.800 --> 08:22.133 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
(explosion booming)

08:22.133 --> 08:23.433 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
(indistinct radio chatter)

08:23.433 --> 08:26.033 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
>> SMITH: The day after
showing me his maps,

08:26.033 --> 08:28.300 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
al-Jolani sat down for
an interview.

08:28.300 --> 08:31.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
(in interview): You are
in a box, it seems to me,

08:31.533 --> 08:34.766 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
with the Russians,
with the Iranians,

08:34.766 --> 08:36.766 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
with the regime.

08:36.766 --> 08:38.433 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
What is your strategy?

08:39.566 --> 08:42.733 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

08:58.733 --> 09:00.433 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

09:00.433 --> 09:02.033 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
After I left Idlib,

09:02.033 --> 09:05.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I posted a picture of al-Jolani
and me on Twitter.

09:05.033 --> 09:06.000 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
(Twitter alert chimes)

09:06.000 --> 09:08.400 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
The post went viral.

09:08.400 --> 09:10.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
Al-Jolani was ridiculed
for wearing a suit.

09:11.500 --> 09:14.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
I was criticized for
talking to a terrorist.

09:22.066 --> 09:24.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
So how did an obscure,

09:24.666 --> 09:27.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
besieged rebel leader
manage to topple a dictator?

09:27.933 --> 09:30.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
(loaded rifles clicking)

09:30.233 --> 09:33.500 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
It began three years
after I met al-Jolani,

09:33.500 --> 09:35.166 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
in November 2024,

09:35.166 --> 09:37.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
when his forces launched
an assault on Aleppo,

09:37.866 --> 09:39.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
Syria's second largest city.

09:39.633 --> 09:42.100 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> HTS SOLDIER
(speaking Arabic):

09:42.100 --> 09:44.266 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> SMITH: They entered
from above and below ground,

09:44.266 --> 09:47.200 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
a coordinated ambush utilizing

09:47.200 --> 09:48.866 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
a vast network of tunnels.

09:48.866 --> 09:51.433 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> HTS SOLDIER 2
(speaking Arabic):

09:51.433 --> 09:53.600 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> HTS SOLDIER:

09:53.600 --> 09:56.666 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
>> SMITH: The attack
blindsided everyone.

09:56.666 --> 09:59.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
(weapons firing,
indistinct shouting)

09:59.966 --> 10:01.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
(rapid gunfire)

10:01.066 --> 10:03.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> I don't know of anyone
who accurately predicted

10:03.300 --> 10:06.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
that Jolani was likely
to pose a real threat

10:06.700 --> 10:08.533 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
to the Assad regime.

10:08.533 --> 10:09.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I mean, I was the deputy
national security advisor,

10:09.900 --> 10:12.633 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
had access to all
the intelligence information,

10:12.633 --> 10:14.800 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
analytic information
the U.S. government has.

10:14.800 --> 10:18.700 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
I first heard that we should
be watching Aleppo, uh,

10:18.700 --> 10:20.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
from somebody outside of
the U.S. government...

10:20.200 --> 10:21.500 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(explosion booming)

10:21.500 --> 10:22.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
who said, "You might want
to pay attention

10:22.600 --> 10:23.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
"to what is happening here.

10:23.800 --> 10:25.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
It is different from
what we've seen before."

10:25.966 --> 10:28.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
(soldiers shouting
indistinctly)

10:28.166 --> 10:30.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: The city fell
to al-Jolani in three days.

10:31.633 --> 10:34.266 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

10:45.200 --> 10:47.766 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
(talking indistinctly)

10:47.766 --> 10:49.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> I truly think that
they only thought

10:49.400 --> 10:51.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that they were going to
take over Aleppo...

10:51.700 --> 10:54.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
and then hold there
and see how that went,

10:54.033 --> 10:55.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
and then try to build
themselves up strong enough

10:55.500 --> 10:57.033 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
to then move on elsewhere,

10:57.033 --> 10:58.666 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
and then it might take
some time.

10:58.666 --> 11:02.133 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
But in fact, because there
was no true counter-offensive,

11:02.133 --> 11:04.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
the military people
were like "All right,

11:04.566 --> 11:06.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
nobody's going after us,
let's keep on going!"

11:06.533 --> 11:07.833 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
(motorcycle engines revving)

11:07.833 --> 11:09.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
>> Syrian rebel fighters

11:09.266 --> 11:11.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
are advancing southward
after seizing control of Aleppo,

11:11.533 --> 11:13.833 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
that's one of
Syria's largest cities...

11:13.833 --> 11:16.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
>> SMITH: As al-Jolani's forces
headed south toward Damascus,

11:16.533 --> 11:19.900 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
the assumption was
still that Iran and Russia

11:19.900 --> 11:22.100 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
would come to Assad's rescue.

11:22.100 --> 11:23.500 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> Those rebels have just

11:23.500 --> 11:25.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
blitzed through
the countryside,

11:25.066 --> 11:27.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and they've made enormous gains
in the east, in the south...

11:27.266 --> 11:29.300 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> HTS SOLDIER
(speaking Arabic):

11:36.200 --> 11:38.633 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
(celebratory gunfire)

11:38.633 --> 11:39.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> More celebrations today

11:39.766 --> 11:41.200 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
in the city of Hama.

11:41.200 --> 11:43.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
The rebels' advance
across the country

11:43.066 --> 11:45.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
has been lightning-fast.

11:45.433 --> 11:46.700 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
But where's the Syrian army

11:46.700 --> 11:48.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
in all of this?

11:48.166 --> 11:50.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Because they mostly seem
to be surrendering or defecting.

11:50.733 --> 11:53.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
>> The Syrian regime
completely gave up.

11:53.833 --> 11:55.500 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
Assad's officers
on the front line

11:55.500 --> 11:57.833 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
were getting paid $30 a month,

11:57.833 --> 12:01.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
enlisted men about
ten dollars a month, and...

12:01.566 --> 12:03.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: Joshua Landis
is a professor

12:03.400 --> 12:05.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
at the University
of Oklahoma,

12:05.166 --> 12:08.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
director of their Center
for Middle East Studies.

12:08.500 --> 12:11.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
>> American sanctions had really
hollowed out that regime

12:11.400 --> 12:15.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
and when we saw the
rebel soldiers come down,

12:15.100 --> 12:18.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
and many of them had
night vision goggles on there--

12:18.300 --> 12:19.866 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
and these fantastic uniforms.

12:19.866 --> 12:23.466 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
Much better than anything
Assad soldiers had.

12:23.466 --> 12:25.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
It was clear that Turkey

12:25.100 --> 12:26.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
had been really building up
these militias.

12:28.200 --> 12:29.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
And also, Assad

12:29.766 --> 12:32.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
lost all of his allies.

12:32.400 --> 12:35.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
Hezbollah had been
decapitated by Israel.

12:35.233 --> 12:38.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
They were major supporters
of the Assad regime.

12:38.166 --> 12:39.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
>> This morning,
Israel and Hezbollah

12:39.666 --> 12:42.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
are exchanging missile and drone
attacks across the border...

12:42.400 --> 12:44.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
>> SMITH: Hezbollah,
and its patron Iran,

12:44.900 --> 12:47.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
became increasingly
engaged with Israel.

12:47.800 --> 12:50.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
They had shifted
their focus away from Syria.

12:50.766 --> 12:52.166 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
(cameras clicking)

12:52.166 --> 12:55.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
And Assad's other ally
was also distracted.

12:55.600 --> 12:58.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> And Russia, of course,
was completely preoccupied

12:58.033 --> 12:59.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
in the Ukraine,

12:59.800 --> 13:01.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
and had not been
resupplying him,

13:01.533 --> 13:03.633 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
so Assad was cut off.

13:03.633 --> 13:05.100 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
>> And after
decades in the country,

13:05.100 --> 13:06.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Russia is pulling back.

13:06.466 --> 13:09.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
This video shows military
vehicles with Russian flags

13:09.266 --> 13:12.133 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
leaving the Damascus region...

13:12.133 --> 13:14.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> According to my contacts,
the Russians were ready to go

13:14.400 --> 13:17.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
back to the bombing campaign
that had been so effective

13:17.500 --> 13:20.300 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
in beating down
the Syrian opposition.

13:20.300 --> 13:22.966 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
However, they immediately saw

13:22.966 --> 13:26.000 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
A-- that there was
no real effective infantry,

13:26.000 --> 13:29.133 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
'cause there was almost no
Iranian proxy forces

13:29.133 --> 13:30.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
from Hezbollah.

13:30.500 --> 13:31.733 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
And once Aleppo fell,

13:31.733 --> 13:33.500 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
it was obvious that

13:33.500 --> 13:35.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
whether the Russians
dropped bombs or not,

13:35.866 --> 13:38.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
it wasn't going to stop
this massive offensive.

13:38.766 --> 13:40.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
(vehicles honking horns,
sirens blaring)

13:40.700 --> 13:42.233 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
>> Last week it was Aleppo.

13:42.233 --> 13:43.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
Yesterday, the city of Homs.

13:43.733 --> 13:46.233 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
Last night,
the outskirts of Damascus.

13:46.233 --> 13:47.600 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
>> At this point, it appears

13:47.600 --> 13:49.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
that the dictatorship
of Bashar al-Assad

13:49.200 --> 13:51.366 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5%
is crumbling.

13:51.366 --> 13:52.700 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5%
>> Nobody read

13:52.700 --> 13:53.900 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
what was happening

13:53.900 --> 13:55.366 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
on the ground correctly.

13:55.366 --> 13:56.566 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
Not the outsiders,

13:56.566 --> 13:57.733 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
not Assad and his backers.

13:58.933 --> 14:02.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: So, Jolani finds
himself pushing on an open door.

14:02.333 --> 14:03.666 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55%
>> Exactly.

14:03.666 --> 14:06.833 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

14:08.066 --> 14:09.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
>> SMITH: Everyone
misread the situation,

14:09.833 --> 14:11.700 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
except al-Jolani.

14:11.700 --> 14:13.300 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
In this meeting with followers

14:13.300 --> 14:16.200 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
nearly five years earlier,

14:16.200 --> 14:19.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
he predicted precisely
how he would achieve victory.

14:19.333 --> 14:23.966 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

14:37.000 --> 14:39.866 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

14:39.866 --> 14:43.033 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> NEWSCASTER
(speaking Arabic):

14:48.833 --> 14:49.733 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
>> SMITH: So al-Jolani,

14:49.733 --> 14:52.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in less than two weeks,
conquered Syria.

14:52.733 --> 14:54.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Just as he had promised.

14:54.700 --> 14:56.666 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
(crowd cheering)

14:56.666 --> 14:58.666 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
Why should Americans care

14:58.666 --> 15:00.133 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
about what happens in Syria?

15:00.133 --> 15:01.633 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
Why should Americans
care about

15:01.633 --> 15:04.800 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
the fall of Assad or
the rise of al-Sharaa?

15:04.800 --> 15:07.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> It's not that Syria
per se is important.

15:07.466 --> 15:08.733 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
It's that
what happens in Syria

15:08.733 --> 15:10.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
impacts all of the Middle East.

15:10.866 --> 15:14.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
Syria can generate
massive refugee flows.

15:14.433 --> 15:17.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
And it has terrorism that
does not stay in the region,

15:17.733 --> 15:21.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
as we saw all over Europe
in 2015, '16,

15:21.233 --> 15:22.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
with the Islamic State.

15:22.866 --> 15:26.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
These are issues at the center
of the Middle East.

15:27.700 --> 15:30.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
>> SMITH: And Syria
sits squarely in the center

15:30.600 --> 15:33.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
of the Middle East,
sharing borders with

15:33.266 --> 15:35.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
five U.S. strategic partners
in the region:

15:35.966 --> 15:37.666 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5%
Turkey, Iraq,

15:37.666 --> 15:40.300 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
Jordan, Israel, and Lebanon.

15:41.333 --> 15:42.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Should it be considered

15:42.666 --> 15:45.800 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
an intelligence failure
that we didn't see--

15:45.800 --> 15:48.066 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
either that Jolani,
at that time...

15:48.066 --> 15:50.033 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5%
>> Mm-hmm.
>> SMITH: ...was a potent

15:50.033 --> 15:53.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
force to be dealt with,
or that Assad,

15:53.566 --> 15:56.633 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
the regime,
was rotting from within?

15:56.633 --> 16:00.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
>> Look, I think
anyone you might've asked,

16:00.200 --> 16:02.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
either in the policy side,
the intel side,

16:02.733 --> 16:04.033 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
whether in state, NSC,

16:04.033 --> 16:07.066 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50%
D.O.D.,
our folks in the field,

16:07.066 --> 16:08.866 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
people would've been

16:08.866 --> 16:10.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
easily able to reckon--

16:10.633 --> 16:13.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
yes, the regime is...
is stagnant.

16:15.033 --> 16:16.400 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
You know things are brittle,

16:16.400 --> 16:17.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
but you don't know
how brittle they are,

16:17.533 --> 16:19.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
and you don't know
what kind of punch

16:19.700 --> 16:22.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
knocks the whole thing
to pieces.

16:22.333 --> 16:24.333 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

16:24.333 --> 16:26.866 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> More than two weeks after
Assad fled Syria,

16:26.866 --> 16:29.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
Syrian families are still
searching for answers about

16:29.366 --> 16:31.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
so many of their loved ones
taken by Assad's secret police

16:31.700 --> 16:33.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
over the years.

16:33.266 --> 16:36.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> At least 200,000 people
are missing after more than...

16:36.100 --> 16:38.600 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
>> I have trouble

16:38.600 --> 16:41.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
thinking of the collapse
of the Assad regime.

16:41.466 --> 16:42.966 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
(indistinct talking)

16:42.966 --> 16:45.300 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
It's 54 years.

16:45.300 --> 16:49.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
54 years that the Syrians
have been repressed.

16:49.100 --> 16:51.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
And so, when in 11 days,

16:51.166 --> 16:52.866 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
a regime like this collapses,

16:52.866 --> 16:55.466 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
it takes you time to
understand it,

16:55.466 --> 16:56.466 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
to believe it...

16:56.466 --> 16:58.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
>> And what we're
identifying is

16:58.766 --> 17:01.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
multiple mass graves,
all these places

17:01.000 --> 17:03.333 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
where hundreds of
thousands of bodies--

17:03.333 --> 17:04.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
men, women, children,
elderly--

17:04.833 --> 17:05.933 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
had been not just
shot in the head,

17:05.933 --> 17:07.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
but mostly tortured to death.

17:07.400 --> 17:09.400 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
Really a sadistic regime.

17:09.400 --> 17:11.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> Anything was better
than the Assad regime.

17:11.766 --> 17:13.166 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
(metal striking wall)

17:13.166 --> 17:15.000 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
We saw the videos,

17:15.000 --> 17:16.866 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
how prisoners were treated...

17:16.866 --> 17:19.533 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> MAN (speaking Arabic):

17:19.533 --> 17:20.833 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> The brutality
of the regime.

17:20.833 --> 17:23.966 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50%
>> MAN:

17:23.966 --> 17:26.533 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
>> Children born from

17:26.533 --> 17:28.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
raped mothers in prisons

17:28.833 --> 17:30.400 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
that were born in prison.

17:30.400 --> 17:33.833 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> MAN (speaking Arabic):

17:33.833 --> 17:35.766 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> Anything other than
Assad is good,

17:35.766 --> 17:37.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
even if it's the devil.

17:40.133 --> 17:45.633 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
(distant traffic)

17:45.633 --> 17:51.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
(crowd chanting)

17:51.600 --> 17:54.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
>> SMITH: During
his first weeks in power,

17:54.133 --> 17:56.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
al-Sharaa walked the streets of
Damascus,

17:56.066 --> 17:59.366 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
talking to people,
reassuring everyone

17:59.366 --> 18:01.066 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
what his plans were.

18:01.066 --> 18:02.833 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

18:07.333 --> 18:08.733 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> From day one,

18:08.733 --> 18:10.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
when Ahmed al-Sharaa
took Damascus,

18:10.333 --> 18:12.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
he talked about peace
and reconciliation,

18:12.833 --> 18:14.233 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
reunifying the country...

18:14.233 --> 18:16.733 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

18:20.133 --> 18:21.666 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
>> He talked about
disarmament,

18:21.666 --> 18:24.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
demobilization,
and reintegration.

18:24.066 --> 18:25.600 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
He used all of the phrases

18:25.600 --> 18:26.700 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
that you would read in a
textbook

18:26.700 --> 18:27.700 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
about a political transition.

18:27.700 --> 18:30.266 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

18:33.966 --> 18:35.800 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> SMITH: The world's press
soon arrived

18:35.800 --> 18:37.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
to meet and talk with
the new leader.

18:37.900 --> 18:39.700 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

18:41.633 --> 18:44.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: As did a parade
of foreign diplomats.

18:44.133 --> 18:45.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
(camera shutter clicks)

18:45.600 --> 18:47.500 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
>> The world
rushed to Damascus.

18:47.500 --> 18:49.466 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
Foreign ministers,

18:49.466 --> 18:51.333 align:left position:42.5% line:83% size:47.5%
emirs,
prime ministers,

18:51.333 --> 18:55.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
presidents are seeking to shake
Ahmed al-Sharaa's hand,

18:55.133 --> 18:57.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
amazed by this
historic opportunity.

18:57.066 --> 18:59.633 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
First time
in more than 50 years,

18:59.633 --> 19:01.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to reshape the heart of
the Middle East for the better.

19:01.700 --> 19:03.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
(traffic blaring, horns honking)

19:03.233 --> 19:04.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> As we all turn to the
question

19:04.833 --> 19:06.433 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
of what comes next in Syria...

19:06.433 --> 19:09.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: In Washington,
the Biden administration

19:09.433 --> 19:11.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
was weighing what it should do.

19:11.133 --> 19:12.766 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
>> We've taken note
of statements

19:12.766 --> 19:16.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
by the leaders of these
rebel groups in recent days.

19:16.033 --> 19:17.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
And they're saying
the right things now...

19:17.866 --> 19:21.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> We were struck by
the interviews that Jolani gave

19:21.566 --> 19:25.633 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
in the early days
after assuming power,

19:25.633 --> 19:28.533 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
in which, yes,
he "said the right things",

19:28.533 --> 19:29.833 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
but said them
with a degree of

19:29.833 --> 19:33.433 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
sophistication
and conviction and detail...

19:33.433 --> 19:36.200 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

19:39.200 --> 19:40.900 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> He gave us
some reason to believe

19:40.900 --> 19:43.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
that this might be
a different sort of leader.

19:43.666 --> 19:45.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
So we decided that
at a certain point

19:45.700 --> 19:47.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
we would need to engage.

19:49.100 --> 19:51.566 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: Less than two weeks
after al-Sharaa's victory,

19:51.566 --> 19:53.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
a U.S. State Department
delegation

19:53.366 --> 19:57.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
headed by Barbara Leaf
set out from neighboring Jordan

19:57.233 --> 19:59.200 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
to meet with him.

19:59.200 --> 20:01.966 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
>> We took off
down the highway at speed,

20:01.966 --> 20:04.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
and we drove through a very

20:04.733 --> 20:07.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
dilapidated countryside,
I will say.

20:07.533 --> 20:10.366 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
Really looked beaten down.

20:10.366 --> 20:12.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
As we got into Damascus,

20:12.700 --> 20:14.100 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
it was difficult to measure

20:14.100 --> 20:16.233 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
what security would be like.

20:16.233 --> 20:18.700 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
Were there
militias roaming at will?

20:18.700 --> 20:20.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Was there any security?

20:20.333 --> 20:23.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
Had all the remnants
of the regime fled for good?

20:23.400 --> 20:25.233 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(indistinct talking)

20:25.233 --> 20:27.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> SMITH: They arrived
at the presidential palace

20:27.366 --> 20:31.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
12 days after Assad
had fled to Moscow.

20:31.700 --> 20:36.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> So we were walked
into this big cavernous palace,

20:36.333 --> 20:38.600 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
and taken upstairs,

20:38.600 --> 20:39.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
and all of a sudden
there they were.

20:39.600 --> 20:41.466 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

20:41.466 --> 20:44.366 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
>> SMITH: Talk about
how he struck you.

20:44.366 --> 20:46.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> Having worked for
many four-star generals

20:46.300 --> 20:47.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
in the American military,

20:47.666 --> 20:50.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
I felt like I was talking to
a very senior general,

20:50.666 --> 20:53.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
not that different than
an American commander

20:53.366 --> 20:55.133 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
who had a very deep
understanding

20:55.133 --> 20:57.666 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
of warfare, economics, policy,

20:57.666 --> 20:59.866 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
what he wanted to achieve,
how he might want to achieve it.

20:59.866 --> 21:02.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
I walked away impressed.

21:02.200 --> 21:05.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> He just had this air of
calm, quiet authority

21:05.800 --> 21:08.666 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
and a whiff
of charisma, frankly.

21:08.666 --> 21:12.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I mean, I had to almost
close my eyes and remind myself

21:12.500 --> 21:14.333 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
I was talking
to a Syrian official,

21:14.333 --> 21:17.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
with the very easy way
he talked about Israel.

21:17.500 --> 21:18.866 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
No diatribes,

21:18.866 --> 21:22.333 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
no recitation of
40 years of history,

21:22.333 --> 21:24.833 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
you know, the way
Hafez al-Assad would.

21:24.833 --> 21:26.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
"Let me tell you about 1948,"

21:26.900 --> 21:28.900 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
sort of start
of the conversation.

21:28.900 --> 21:30.200 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
And of course at that time,

21:30.200 --> 21:34.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
the Israelis had moved in
up on the Golan Heights

21:34.166 --> 21:35.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
on the Syrian soil...
>> SMITH: And they were bombing.

21:35.400 --> 21:36.800 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> And they were bombing.

21:36.800 --> 21:37.933 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(explosion echoing)

21:37.933 --> 21:39.900 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> MAN (speaking Arabic):

21:39.900 --> 21:42.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
>> SMITH: Israel, long
in a state of war with Syria,

21:42.933 --> 21:45.333 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
immediately started bombing
and dismantling

21:45.333 --> 21:48.466 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
Syria's remaining
military capabilities.

21:48.466 --> 21:53.200 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> Israel has been bombarding
every part of Syria's military.

21:53.200 --> 21:56.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
Fighter jets, naval assets,
surface-to-surface missiles,

21:56.500 --> 21:58.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
they have taken out everything.

21:58.966 --> 22:00.333 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: The Israelis say

22:00.333 --> 22:02.200 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
they told the
Biden administration

22:02.200 --> 22:04.333 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
what they were planning to do.

22:04.333 --> 22:08.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
Al-Sharaa asked Barbara Leaf
to get Israel to stop.

22:08.566 --> 22:10.866 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> He was very matter-of-fact

22:10.866 --> 22:13.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
in his request.

22:13.400 --> 22:15.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
He said, "Could you get
the Israelis to stop bombing?

22:15.700 --> 22:17.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
They're scaring my people."

22:17.733 --> 22:21.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
And he was at pains
to say repeatedly,

22:21.800 --> 22:23.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
"We have no argument
with Israel."

22:23.433 --> 22:27.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> I don't doubt that
al-Sharaa has no interest

22:27.400 --> 22:29.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
in going to war with
Israel...

22:29.266 --> 22:32.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: Michael Herzog
was Israeli ambassador

22:32.033 --> 22:34.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to the U.S. at the time.

22:34.666 --> 22:37.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
He told me that Israel
was particularly worried

22:37.466 --> 22:39.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
about Assad's weapons
and chemical stockpiles

22:39.866 --> 22:41.933 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
falling into the wrong hands.

22:41.933 --> 22:43.533 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> We all know the background

22:43.533 --> 22:47.033 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
of al-Sharaa
and the people around him.

22:47.033 --> 22:51.000 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
They all come from the schools
of al-Qaeda and ISIS.

22:51.000 --> 22:53.233 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
They all have
jihadi background

22:53.233 --> 22:55.300 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
and that was, and remains,

22:55.300 --> 22:58.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
a source of concern
in Israel.

22:58.033 --> 23:00.566 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: How does continuing

23:00.566 --> 23:03.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
to strike militarily,
with bombs,

23:03.700 --> 23:06.600 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
encourage al-Sharaa's
moderation?

23:06.600 --> 23:08.666 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
It would seem to me
the opposite's true,

23:08.666 --> 23:11.833 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
that that encourages
the jihadists...

23:11.833 --> 23:13.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
>> Well, Israel
is not going to...

23:13.966 --> 23:16.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
strike military
capabilities forever.

23:16.966 --> 23:19.133 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5%
There's...

23:19.133 --> 23:21.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
the more we do it,
the less there is left to...

23:21.366 --> 23:22.733 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
destroy.

23:22.733 --> 23:26.466 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
And again,
we're talking about specific

23:26.466 --> 23:29.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
military capabilities
that we do not want to be there,

23:29.933 --> 23:31.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
because they could
be used against us,

23:31.933 --> 23:34.600 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
either by this
new regime or by others.

23:34.600 --> 23:36.600 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

23:36.600 --> 23:38.833 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
Initially, Israel did say

23:38.833 --> 23:40.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
the bombing campaign
would be brief.

23:40.533 --> 23:42.233 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> I emphasize,

23:42.233 --> 23:46.400 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
it is a very limited and
temporary step...

23:46.400 --> 23:47.500 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(explosion booming)

23:47.500 --> 23:48.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
>> SMITH: But Israel

23:48.800 --> 23:52.500 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
has continued
striking targets for months,

23:52.500 --> 23:59.133 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
killing an estimated two dozen
civilians in the process,

23:59.133 --> 24:02.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
Israel has also seized land
in southern Syria,

24:02.366 --> 24:05.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
expanding what it calls
its security zone.

24:05.233 --> 24:07.466 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

24:09.300 --> 24:11.066 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> SMITH: At an Arab summit
in March,

24:11.066 --> 24:13.333 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
al-Sharaa asked for help.

24:13.333 --> 24:18.300 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

24:25.433 --> 24:26.966 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
>> I think behind Israel

24:26.966 --> 24:29.666 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
is an agenda,
is an intention.

24:29.666 --> 24:33.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
To weaken Syria,
to break it up,

24:33.533 --> 24:36.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
and to expand Israeli
boundaries.

24:36.133 --> 24:38.366 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
Without any accountability

24:38.366 --> 24:40.866 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
by the international community.

24:40.866 --> 24:43.800 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
And that is really the recipe

24:43.800 --> 24:46.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
for future violence,
not for peace.

24:46.200 --> 24:48.300 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
They don't see it that way.

24:48.300 --> 24:50.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> The French and the British,

24:50.066 --> 24:51.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
when they carved up
the Middle East,

24:51.600 --> 24:53.166 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
didn't see it
that way, either.

25:00.033 --> 25:01.833 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> DRIVER and PRODUCER
(speaking Arabic):

25:05.200 --> 25:09.233 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: By mid-January 2025,
when I returned to Syria,

25:09.233 --> 25:11.400 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
I was planning on
seeing al-Sharaa again...

25:11.400 --> 25:12.800 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
(camera clicking)

25:12.800 --> 25:15.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
but it seemed he was
distracted--

25:15.300 --> 25:17.600 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
his honeymoon
was coming to an end.

25:17.600 --> 25:22.300 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
Resistance to his government
was emerging around the country.

25:25.466 --> 25:27.500 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
A large pocket
was here in the south,

25:27.500 --> 25:29.933 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
in the city of Sweida,

25:29.933 --> 25:32.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
the heartland of
Syria's Druze.

25:32.400 --> 25:34.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
(Druze singing and chanting)

25:34.766 --> 25:37.666 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
The Druze are a minority
religious group,

25:37.666 --> 25:40.600 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
an ancient offshoot
of Shia Islam.

25:40.600 --> 25:43.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
And since al-Sharaa
came to power,

25:43.266 --> 25:45.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
they have been reluctant to
support him,

25:45.200 --> 25:48.533 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
or trust his
jihadist followers.

25:48.533 --> 25:50.066 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
(Druze clapping and chanting)

25:50.066 --> 25:52.000 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> SHAKIB AZZAM
(speaking Arabic):

26:01.333 --> 26:02.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> SMITH: Shakib Azzam
is commander

26:02.866 --> 26:04.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of a large Druze militia
called the Mountain Brigade.

26:05.766 --> 26:08.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
His people, he said,
felt excluded.

26:08.800 --> 26:10.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
He complained that the new
government

26:10.433 --> 26:13.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
was stacked with
al-Sharaa's own people.

26:13.366 --> 26:14.700 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5%
>> AZZAM:

26:34.766 --> 26:36.966 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

26:41.266 --> 26:43.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: The complaint
that I heard is that

26:43.033 --> 26:44.966 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
Sharaa was
stocking his cabinet

26:44.966 --> 26:48.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
with friends from
his government in Idlib,

26:48.166 --> 26:51.100 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
and they were
all fellow Islamists.

26:51.100 --> 26:53.733 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
Was it inevitable
that al-Sharaa did that?

26:53.733 --> 26:55.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
>> I should think it is.

26:55.033 --> 26:56.933 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
You know,
he's been fighting a war

26:56.933 --> 26:58.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
since he's 20 years old.

26:58.566 --> 26:59.966 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
He's been a warrior.

26:59.966 --> 27:02.066 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
He's been leading a militia

27:02.066 --> 27:04.500 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
that is deeply Islamist.

27:04.500 --> 27:08.166 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
When he first got to Idlib,
he said,

27:08.166 --> 27:11.866 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
"This is going to be
an entity for Sunnis."

27:11.866 --> 27:16.466 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
And so there's this
deep Sunni supremacist attitude

27:16.466 --> 27:18.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
that comes along with him.

27:18.766 --> 27:19.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: Under scrutiny,

27:19.766 --> 27:22.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
was one of al-Sharaa's
initial cabinet members.

27:22.600 --> 27:25.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
His justice minister was filmed
in 2015

27:25.633 --> 27:28.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
overseeing the execution
of two women in Idlib,

27:28.933 --> 27:31.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
accused of corruption
and prostitution.

27:31.633 --> 27:36.166 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> (speaking Arabic):

27:37.400 --> 27:40.300 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
>> SMITH: How do
you explain his appointment

27:40.300 --> 27:43.766 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
of a justice minister who is,
in video,

27:43.766 --> 27:46.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
executing two women?

27:46.800 --> 27:49.633 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
>> He's gotten
a lot of protests over this.

27:49.633 --> 27:53.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
There are still extremist
elements,

27:53.166 --> 27:56.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
and this is the source of
concern

27:56.033 --> 27:59.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
to many secular Syrians.

27:59.000 --> 28:00.566 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5%
Mr. al-Sharaa

28:00.566 --> 28:02.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
is walking a tightrope.

28:02.333 --> 28:06.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: Al-Sharaa has since
replaced his justice minister.

28:06.500 --> 28:08.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And by the end of March,

28:08.133 --> 28:11.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
he formed a new cabinet
that was much more inclusive.

28:11.000 --> 28:12.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
It's very interesting.

28:12.033 --> 28:13.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
 
Do you speak English?

28:13.466 --> 28:15.766 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
(voiceover): But these Druze
leaders may not be assuaged.

28:15.766 --> 28:17.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
They cite too much bad history.

28:18.333 --> 28:20.333 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> (speaking English):

28:34.566 --> 28:38.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> SMITH: Ten years earlier,
members of al-Sharaa's group

28:38.066 --> 28:40.933 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
executed 20 Druze

28:40.933 --> 28:44.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
in an Idlib village,
accusing them of heresy.

28:44.333 --> 28:46.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
Al-Sharaa's group
later said the attack

28:46.533 --> 28:48.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
went against his orders.

28:48.066 --> 28:49.300 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
There is a very
important struggle

28:49.300 --> 28:50.466 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
going on right now...

28:50.466 --> 28:51.833 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
(voiceover):
Today in Sweida,

28:51.833 --> 28:54.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
the Druze are refusing to
give up their guns.

28:54.433 --> 28:56.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
(off camera): How many men
do you have in arms?

28:56.733 --> 28:59.333 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5%
>> AZZAM:

29:05.866 --> 29:08.266 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(indistinct chatter)

29:08.266 --> 29:09.600 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
The day after my meeting

29:09.600 --> 29:11.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
with the Mountain Brigade,
we got a tip

29:11.366 --> 29:13.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
from a local journalist.

29:13.233 --> 29:15.900 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> PRODUCER (speaking Arabic):

29:15.900 --> 29:17.533 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> SMITH: There was a large
convoy of al-Sharaa's

29:17.533 --> 29:21.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
soldiers patrolling
in the nearby countryside.

29:21.466 --> 29:22.733 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
(off camera):
That's a big convoy.

29:22.733 --> 29:24.666 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> It is a big convoy.

29:24.666 --> 29:26.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Okay, let's try to follow them.

29:28.566 --> 29:29.600 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: They were going from

29:29.600 --> 29:31.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
town to town in a show of force,

29:31.833 --> 29:34.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
assuring Syrians that al-Sharaa

29:34.266 --> 29:36.766 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
was restoring order
in the country.

29:39.900 --> 29:41.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
>> SOLDIER 1 (speaking Arabic):

29:46.166 --> 29:49.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
>> SMITH: But the soldiers were
also here demanding loyalty,

29:49.066 --> 29:52.300 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
warning everyone
in no uncertain terms

29:52.300 --> 29:56.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
to cooperate in the fight
against any armed resistance

29:56.033 --> 29:57.733 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
to al-Sharaa's government.

29:57.733 --> 30:00.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
>> SOLDIER 2 (speaking Arabic):

30:10.333 --> 30:12.233 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(indistinct chatter)

30:13.733 --> 30:16.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
>> SMITH: At the end of the day,
these soldiers paused to pray.

30:16.733 --> 30:19.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
A common Muslim ritual.

30:19.733 --> 30:20.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
But Al-Sharaa's forces

30:20.800 --> 30:23.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
are staunchly conservative
Sunnis.

30:24.600 --> 30:27.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
As seen by the Druze
from nearby Sweida,

30:27.333 --> 30:29.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
or by defeated Assad loyalists,

30:29.533 --> 30:32.000 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
rule by a band of Islamists

30:32.000 --> 30:33.433 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
is deeply troubling.

30:34.566 --> 30:37.100 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
Under Assad
religion was downplayed.

30:37.100 --> 30:39.200 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
Assad was an Alawite,

30:39.200 --> 30:41.933 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
a minority sect of Islam,

30:41.933 --> 30:45.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
but he promoted a largely
secular vision for Syria.

30:50.866 --> 30:52.633 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
Assad's base was here

30:52.633 --> 30:55.100 align:left position:42.5% line:5% size:47.5%
along
Syria's Mediterranean coast,

30:55.100 --> 30:58.033 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
in communities with
a concentration of Alawites.

31:00.533 --> 31:02.100 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
After Assad's defeat,

31:02.100 --> 31:04.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
some coastal residents
feared for their safety.

31:04.900 --> 31:07.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
And there were reports
that some were being targeted.

31:09.533 --> 31:13.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Then in early March some
Assad loyalists attacked

31:13.233 --> 31:15.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
one of al-Sharaa's
government patrols.

31:16.300 --> 31:19.166 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> MAN (speaking Arabic):

31:19.166 --> 31:21.200 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: 16 men lay dead.

31:21.200 --> 31:23.933 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50%
And more
lethal attacks followed.

31:23.933 --> 31:28.400 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

31:35.266 --> 31:37.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
>> And today,
what we're seeing is a huge

31:37.566 --> 31:38.800 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
security operation

31:38.800 --> 31:41.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
targeting forces loyal

31:41.666 --> 31:43.266 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
to the Assad regime.

31:43.266 --> 31:48.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> And so there was a general
mobilization of the military.

31:48.533 --> 31:51.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
And then the mosques
began to call for jihad.

31:51.133 --> 31:56.133 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> IMAM (speaking Arabic):

32:05.233 --> 32:07.633 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
(crowd cheers)

32:07.633 --> 32:10.133 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> SMITH: Tensions had been
building for weeks

32:10.133 --> 32:12.866 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
with provocative
online threats, like these,

32:12.866 --> 32:14.700 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
against the Alawites.

32:14.700 --> 32:17.866 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> (speaking Arabic):

32:17.866 --> 32:20.833 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> SMITH: Some linked
to suspicious foreign accounts.

32:20.833 --> 32:23.200 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> (speaking Arabic):

32:23.200 --> 32:29.066 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
>> (speaking Arabic):

32:29.066 --> 32:30.633 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55%
>> You know,
put hate in your hearts,

32:30.633 --> 32:34.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
go to that coast,
smash the Alawites.

32:35.000 --> 32:37.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> SMITH: Thousands of
militia men joined al-Sharaa's

32:37.766 --> 32:40.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
government forces
and descended on the coast.

32:40.533 --> 32:42.300 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
(indistinct chatter)

32:42.300 --> 32:46.233 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
>> And then just a
flood of videos begin

32:46.233 --> 32:49.500 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
to come out, and some of the
soldiers and these militia men

32:49.500 --> 32:51.833 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
making these Alawites,
you know long strings of them,

32:51.833 --> 32:53.833 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
walk on their hands and knees,
bark like a dog...

32:53.833 --> 32:57.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> MAN (speaking Arabic):

32:57.066 --> 32:59.933 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> And then they started
carrying out these massacres.

32:59.933 --> 33:02.100 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5%
(gunfire)

33:02.100 --> 33:04.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Just shooting people up
and down.

33:04.466 --> 33:07.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It was a free for all--
and they're having a good time!

33:07.366 --> 33:08.366 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> MILITIA MAN 1
(speaking Arabic):

33:12.366 --> 33:14.466 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> MILITIA MAN 2
(speaking Arabic):

33:14.466 --> 33:15.466 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> MILITIA MAN 1
(speaking Arabic):

33:19.466 --> 33:32.066 align:left position:42.5% line:5% size:47.5%
>> MAN
(speaking Arabic on computer):

33:32.066 --> 33:34.766 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: This eyewitness says
three of his family members

33:34.766 --> 33:36.300 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5%
were executed.

33:36.300 --> 33:39.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
We're blurring his face
to protect his identity.

33:39.000 --> 33:40.866 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50%
>> MAN:

33:48.266 --> 33:51.100 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(man saying prayer)

34:12.266 --> 34:15.666 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
>> MILITIA MAN 1
(speaking Arabic):

34:15.666 --> 34:18.200 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
>> MILITIA MAN 1:
>> MILITIA MAN 2:

34:18.200 --> 34:20.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> SMITH: So, you wake up to
these images

34:20.066 --> 34:22.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
that are then online and you
and your wife

34:22.900 --> 34:24.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
are together...
>> Yeah.

34:24.633 --> 34:26.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: She's Alawite.
>> She's Alawite.

34:26.400 --> 34:28.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: You have relatives,
in-laws living there.

34:28.500 --> 34:30.233 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
>> Yeah, you know,

34:30.233 --> 34:33.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
three of my wife's cousins
wrote us the next day,

34:33.133 --> 34:34.700 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
people came to their door,

34:34.700 --> 34:36.166 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
bang, bang, bang.

34:36.166 --> 34:38.200 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
You open it up, "Who are you?

34:38.200 --> 34:39.600 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
Sunni or Alawite?"

34:39.600 --> 34:41.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
It was the first thing that
each one of them

34:41.166 --> 34:42.200 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
said they were asked.

34:42.200 --> 34:45.433 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
One cousin,
who grew up with my son,

34:45.433 --> 34:48.633 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
um, we knew well,
was shot at his doorstep.

34:48.633 --> 34:50.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
He was 19, 20 years old.

34:54.433 --> 34:56.333 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> SMITH: Over the course of
several days,

34:56.333 --> 34:59.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
an estimated 1,200 people
were killed,

34:59.600 --> 35:00.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
mostly Alawites.

35:04.200 --> 35:06.633 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

35:17.000 --> 35:19.366 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: Al-Sharaa called for
a thorough investigation.

35:19.366 --> 35:22.633 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

35:29.866 --> 35:31.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
>> This investigation committee,

35:31.900 --> 35:35.100 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
will they actually
provide reports

35:35.100 --> 35:36.333 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55%
with names?

35:36.333 --> 35:38.733 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
Will those people
be held accountable?

35:38.733 --> 35:41.733 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
Those are real tests,
so look at them and ask

35:41.733 --> 35:43.833 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
al-Sharaa,
"If you do that, we trust you.

35:43.833 --> 35:46.400 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
If you don't, no,
we don't trust you."

35:47.966 --> 35:50.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> Damascus says it has
successfully contained

35:50.100 --> 35:52.266 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
the offensive on the coast.

35:52.266 --> 35:56.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
But while Ahmed al-Sharaa may be
in control

35:56.133 --> 36:00.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
of some of the men in uniforms,
he is not in control

36:00.433 --> 36:02.733 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
of all of them men with guns.

36:11.500 --> 36:14.366 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: It is in Syria's far
northeastern corner

36:14.366 --> 36:17.166 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
where al-Sharaa faces perhaps
his biggest challenge.

36:18.533 --> 36:21.000 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
This is the homeland
of Syria's Kurds,

36:21.000 --> 36:24.266 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
the largest non-Arab minority
in Syria.

36:26.000 --> 36:29.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
Kurds have long been subject
to systematic discrimination,

36:29.533 --> 36:31.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
including the arbitrary denial

36:31.900 --> 36:36.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
of citizenship to around
150,000 Syria-born Kurds,

36:37.400 --> 36:39.533 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
who are not
allowed to have passports,

36:39.533 --> 36:41.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
who can't own property,

36:41.566 --> 36:44.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
get a marriage license
or find work.

36:44.133 --> 36:47.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
Whose children are
also considered non-citizens.

36:49.700 --> 36:52.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
Kurds have not fared well
elsewhere either.

36:52.600 --> 36:56.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
They form the largest stateless
ethnic group in the world.

36:56.233 --> 36:58.833 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
With 30 million
people concentrated

36:58.833 --> 37:00.833 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
in an area straddling Turkey,

37:00.833 --> 37:04.500 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
Iran, Iraq, and Syria.

37:04.500 --> 37:08.100 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
After Syria's civil war began
in 2012,

37:08.100 --> 37:11.366 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
Kurds here in the northeast
broke free of Assad,

37:11.366 --> 37:13.733 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
and established a
semi-autonomous region

37:13.733 --> 37:16.933 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
they called Rojava.

37:16.933 --> 37:20.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
How did Syria ever
lose control of the northeast?

37:20.833 --> 37:25.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> When Assad's forces faced
massive armed opposition

37:25.433 --> 37:27.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
during the Arab Spring,

37:27.933 --> 37:29.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
they pulled troops out
of the northeast

37:29.700 --> 37:31.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to hold off against the
opposition,

37:31.666 --> 37:33.566 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
the resistance in
the rest of the country.

37:34.600 --> 37:36.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
So the Kurds split off

37:36.300 --> 37:39.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
and they're currently
a state within a state.

37:40.733 --> 37:43.333 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> NEWSCASTER
(speaking Kermanji):

37:49.433 --> 37:50.633 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
(cheers and applause)

37:50.633 --> 37:53.200 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: I went to Rojava in
April 2025.

37:53.200 --> 37:56.233 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
To see and hear the Kurd's
powerful

37:56.233 --> 37:58.300 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
and immensely popular
rebel leader,

37:58.300 --> 38:01.633 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
General Mazloum Abdi Kobane.

38:01.633 --> 38:04.033 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
>> MAZLOUM (speaking Kermanji):

38:30.333 --> 38:33.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
(cheers and applause)

38:35.233 --> 38:36.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
>> SMITH: After the conference,

38:36.500 --> 38:39.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
I met with General Mazloum
at his headquarters.

38:41.100 --> 38:42.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I want to begin by talking about

38:42.866 --> 38:44.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
this unity conference

38:44.800 --> 38:46.366 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
that took place yesterday.

38:46.366 --> 38:48.500 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
I was there;
what is the significance

38:48.500 --> 38:52.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of the declaration that
came out of that conference?

38:52.200 --> 38:55.200 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55%
>> MAZLOUM:

39:07.166 --> 39:09.266 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: Do the people trust

39:09.266 --> 39:13.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
a former al-Qaeda commander
to rule Syria,

39:13.433 --> 39:16.100 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
or to preserve
or to give you autonomy?

39:16.100 --> 39:20.133 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55%
>> MAZLOUM:

39:31.466 --> 39:33.700 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: From al-Sharaa's
perspective,

39:33.700 --> 39:37.233 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
integrating the Kurds
back into Syria is essential.

39:37.233 --> 39:39.433 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
He needed to make a deal.

39:39.433 --> 39:41.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
And why is Northeast Syria

39:41.666 --> 39:44.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
important to al-Sharaa?

39:44.066 --> 39:45.333 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> I mean, Northeastern Syria

39:45.333 --> 39:48.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
contains 80% of Syria's
natural energy resources.

39:49.366 --> 39:52.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
So oil and gas,
hugely significant,

39:52.266 --> 39:54.900 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
the lifeblood
of the Syrian economy.

39:55.933 --> 39:57.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And then on top of that,

39:57.466 --> 39:59.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
it's the agricultural
belt of the country.

39:59.300 --> 40:01.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
So if Syria is able
to get anywhere close to feeding

40:01.700 --> 40:04.600 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50%
itself,
it needs that region of Syria.

40:04.600 --> 40:06.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
Without that under
Damascus's control,

40:06.400 --> 40:07.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
there really is no hope.

40:09.200 --> 40:11.166 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> And then there's water.

40:11.166 --> 40:13.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
Rojava controls
the Euphrates River,

40:13.466 --> 40:14.933 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
in part, and the dam.

40:14.933 --> 40:18.933 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
So that northeast,
very important

40:18.933 --> 40:22.733 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
for the economy, oil,
agriculture, water.

40:22.733 --> 40:24.166 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
(officer shouting command)

40:24.166 --> 40:28.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> SMITH: Mazloum also leads
a 100,000 man U.S.-backed army

40:28.433 --> 40:31.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
the Syrian Democratic Forces
or SDF,

40:31.066 --> 40:35.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
which is battle-hardened
and well-supplied.

40:36.266 --> 40:38.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
The Americans trained
and equipped the SDF

40:38.766 --> 40:40.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
to help them defeat ISIS

40:40.666 --> 40:43.366 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
after a large swath
of Kurdish territory

40:43.366 --> 40:46.000 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
was seized by ISIS in 2014.

40:46.000 --> 40:48.833 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> The SDF definitely has
some power

40:48.833 --> 40:50.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
in the negotiation with Sharaa,

40:50.800 --> 40:54.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
not only in terms of the
resources, but also because

40:54.400 --> 40:56.966 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
they have a pretty robust
military

40:56.966 --> 40:58.433 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
that's been trained by the
United States

40:58.433 --> 40:59.566 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
and the Global Coalition, too.

40:59.566 --> 41:02.000 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
(soldiers shouting)

41:02.000 --> 41:03.500 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
And some have said

41:03.500 --> 41:05.766 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
that it might even be
a larger military

41:05.766 --> 41:07.533 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
than the one
that's currently in Damascus.

41:09.533 --> 41:13.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: But the Kurds
still have an ISIS problem.

41:13.266 --> 41:15.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
They have around 10,000
suspected ISIS fighters

41:15.966 --> 41:18.133 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
locked up in Kurdish prisons,

41:18.133 --> 41:20.700 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
along with two massive camps

41:20.700 --> 41:23.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
filled with 40,000 women
and children,

41:23.200 --> 41:25.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
the families of these prisoners.

41:28.100 --> 41:30.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
In the Kurdish city of Hasakah,

41:30.000 --> 41:31.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
I was allowed a look inside

41:31.800 --> 41:33.033 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
one of these prisons.

41:33.033 --> 41:34.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
(off-camera): Can I look
in some of these cells?

41:34.833 --> 41:36.966 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
This one,
filled with foreign fighters.

41:36.966 --> 41:38.133 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
(off-camera):
Do you speak English?

41:38.133 --> 41:40.200 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50%
>> Yeah.
>> SMITH: Your brothers in this,

41:40.200 --> 41:41.833 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
in this cell,
tell me, where are they from?

41:41.833 --> 41:43.166 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
Where, what countries?

41:43.166 --> 41:45.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> There's people from
all over the world with me.

41:45.166 --> 41:46.700 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
Just foreigners together.

41:46.700 --> 41:50.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
(voiceover): The Kurds need help
repatriating these prisoners.

41:50.400 --> 41:52.733 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
No one wants to take them.

41:52.733 --> 41:53.933 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5%
The Kurds have

41:53.933 --> 41:57.433 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
something like 29 prisons full

41:57.433 --> 42:00.966 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
of ISIS prisoners.

42:00.966 --> 42:03.533 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
You're trying
to repatriate them...

42:03.533 --> 42:06.000 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55%
>> MAZLOUM:

42:17.133 --> 42:19.133 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
After weeks of negotiations,

42:19.133 --> 42:22.300 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
Mazloum set out for Damascus
to meet al-Sharaa

42:22.300 --> 42:23.700 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
and hammer out an agreement

42:23.700 --> 42:26.333 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
on Kurdish rights, autonomy,

42:26.333 --> 42:29.566 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
on resources,
the military and ISIS.

42:29.566 --> 42:31.033 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
(camera shutters clicking)

42:31.033 --> 42:35.533 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> The broad outlines were
that Mazloum would put the SDF,

42:35.533 --> 42:38.366 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
the Syrian Democratic Forces,
under the authority

42:38.366 --> 42:40.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
of the Ministry of Defense,
in Damascus.

42:40.700 --> 42:42.333 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
And, uh,

42:42.333 --> 42:44.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
and they came up with
an agreement on oil

42:44.833 --> 42:48.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
that was going to give the Kurds
a big share of all oil revenues.

42:50.000 --> 42:52.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> SMITH: And finally,
there were issues concerning

42:52.066 --> 42:54.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Kurdish status in the new Syria.

42:54.466 --> 42:55.900 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
Al-Sharaa specifically

42:55.900 --> 42:58.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
agreed to recognize Kurds
as fully Syrian

42:58.700 --> 43:02.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
and he guaranteed
their constitutional rights.

43:02.233 --> 43:04.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> The Kurds want Syria
to be called

43:04.833 --> 43:06.766 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
the Syrian Republic.

43:06.766 --> 43:08.466 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
So it'd be
Syria for all Syrians.

43:08.466 --> 43:10.266 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5%
Traditionally,

43:10.266 --> 43:12.333 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
it's been
the Syrian Arab Republic.

43:12.333 --> 43:13.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
(cheering, car horns honking)

43:13.900 --> 43:16.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: Initially, Kurds
celebrated the agreement.

43:16.400 --> 43:18.600 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> CROWD (chanting in Arabic):

43:18.600 --> 43:20.400 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
>> Breaking news.

43:20.400 --> 43:21.900 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
Syria's government
has struck a deal.

43:21.900 --> 43:23.000 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
After weeks of negotiations

43:23.000 --> 43:24.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
between Damascus
and the Kurds...

43:24.866 --> 43:27.066 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
>> The Syrian state
is recognizing

43:27.066 --> 43:28.500 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
the Kurdish community

43:28.500 --> 43:30.100 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
as an integral part of Syria.

43:30.100 --> 43:32.933 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5%
That is a
major, major development...

43:32.933 --> 43:34.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
>> SMITH: Then three days later,

43:34.666 --> 43:37.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
al-Sharaa issued
a new Syrian constitution.

43:37.466 --> 43:41.066 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
It was not
what Mazloum envisioned.

43:41.066 --> 43:43.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
>> It said Syrian Arab Republic.

43:43.100 --> 43:45.166 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
Right at the top.

43:45.166 --> 43:46.633 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
And it didn't
write the Kurds in.

43:46.633 --> 43:48.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
It didn't give them
representation.

43:48.566 --> 43:50.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
It didn't outline the agreement.

43:51.800 --> 43:53.466 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
The constitution did promise

43:53.466 --> 43:55.333 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
to protect minority rights,

43:55.333 --> 43:58.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
but the Kurds said
the language was too vague.

43:58.533 --> 44:00.533 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
The document also

44:00.533 --> 44:05.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
contained article 3 which deals
with Islamic jurisprudence.

44:05.066 --> 44:08.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> It was changed from
"Islamic law

44:08.133 --> 44:10.433 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
"will be a source

44:10.433 --> 44:13.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
of law--" that's what it was
under Assad.

44:13.566 --> 44:16.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Now, it's, "Islamic law

44:16.433 --> 44:19.500 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
will be the source of law."

44:19.500 --> 44:22.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
So, this makes it very
potentially

44:22.933 --> 44:25.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
Sharia law will become
the law of the land.

44:25.166 --> 44:29.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
This sent a shudder through many
of the minority communities.

44:29.466 --> 44:32.400 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> MAN (speaking Kermanji):

44:33.533 --> 44:35.866 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> MAN (speaking Kermanji):

44:43.266 --> 44:44.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
(woman speaking on loudspeaker)

44:44.933 --> 44:46.633 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55%
>> MAZLOUM:

44:50.366 --> 44:52.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: I would imagine
you were tempted

44:52.066 --> 44:53.633 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
to pick up the phone
and call al-Sharaa and say,

44:53.633 --> 44:54.633 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
"What's going on?"

44:55.800 --> 44:58.800 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55%
>> MAZLOUM:

44:59.966 --> 45:01.333 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
>> SMITH: In an open letter,

45:01.333 --> 45:03.866 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
Kurdish authorities laid out
their complete rejection

45:03.866 --> 45:05.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
of the new constitution

45:05.700 --> 45:09.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
and its attempt
to recreate a dictatorship.

45:09.033 --> 45:13.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
Syria, they wrote, "is
a homeland for all its people.

45:13.033 --> 45:15.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
"We will not accept
the reconstruction

45:15.266 --> 45:17.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
of an authoritarian regime."

45:17.633 --> 45:19.933 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75%
>> CROWD (chanting Arabic):

45:21.033 --> 45:22.533 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
>> SMITH: To date,

45:22.533 --> 45:26.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
al-Sharaa has decided not
to revise the constitution.

45:26.166 --> 45:28.900 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
>> (speaking Kermanji):

45:28.900 --> 45:30.366 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
>> SMITH: The question I have is

45:30.366 --> 45:32.866 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
how he could,
three days after having this

45:32.866 --> 45:34.233 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
deal signed with Mazloum,

45:34.233 --> 45:37.033 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
come out with a constitutional

45:37.033 --> 45:40.466 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
declaration at the very top it
says the Syrian Arab Republic.

45:40.466 --> 45:41.700 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
>> Yes.

45:41.700 --> 45:45.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
That is a glaring piece
that has not been fixed.

45:45.066 --> 45:46.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
He's making mistakes...

45:46.566 --> 45:47.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> SMITH (voiceover):
I went back

45:47.800 --> 45:50.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
to speak via Zoom
with Ambassador Barbara Leaf.

45:50.666 --> 45:52.966 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> If he wants a stable Syria,

45:52.966 --> 45:56.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
he's going to be compelled
to take into account

45:56.333 --> 45:59.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
the changed landscape of Syria.

45:59.966 --> 46:02.333 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
Changed by 14 years

46:02.333 --> 46:05.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
of this brutal civil war,
but he has

46:05.233 --> 46:07.733 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
to look at
a longer scope of history

46:07.733 --> 46:11.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
where these communities
were pitted against one another.

46:11.633 --> 46:14.000 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
So the high degree of mistrust

46:14.000 --> 46:18.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
is in multiple directions,
but they all mistrust Damascus.

46:20.800 --> 46:22.400 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
(passing traffic)

46:26.500 --> 46:28.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: I wanted to hear
al-Sharaa's response

46:28.933 --> 46:30.266 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
to all the turmoil

46:30.266 --> 46:31.900 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
around the country.

46:31.900 --> 46:35.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
I repeatedly pressed for
an interview-- to no avail.

46:37.900 --> 46:39.666 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
We did visit this courthouse

46:39.666 --> 46:42.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
in the city of Homs,
central Syria.

46:42.400 --> 46:47.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
We met this man,
chief judge Hassan al Aqraa,

46:47.400 --> 46:50.066 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
a staunch
supporter of al-Sharaa.

46:51.400 --> 46:53.033 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
At the time, al Aqraa was

46:53.033 --> 46:55.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
systematically going through
all the files

46:55.066 --> 46:57.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
that were seized
from the Assad regime.

46:57.366 --> 47:00.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
He said new laws
were still being written.

47:01.766 --> 47:03.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> AL AQRAA (speaking Arabic):

47:30.400 --> 47:33.200 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
>> AL-SHARAA:

47:48.666 --> 47:49.933 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5%
>> SMITH: In May,

47:49.933 --> 47:51.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
President Trump made
a trip to the Middle East.

47:53.366 --> 47:56.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
There was a jolt
of good news for al-Sharaa.

47:56.166 --> 47:58.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> After discussing the
situation in Syria

47:58.700 --> 48:00.066 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
with the Crown Prince,

48:00.066 --> 48:02.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
your Crown Prince...
(cheers and applause)

48:02.333 --> 48:03.800 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> SMITH: In Saudi Arabia,

48:03.800 --> 48:05.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
Trump announced that
economic sanctions

48:05.833 --> 48:08.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
imposed during the Assad regime

48:08.100 --> 48:09.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
would finally be lifted.

48:09.866 --> 48:13.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> I will be ordering
the cessation of sanctions

48:13.000 --> 48:14.900 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
against Syria
in order to give them

48:14.900 --> 48:17.500 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
a chance at greatness.

48:17.500 --> 48:18.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
(cheers and applause)

48:18.800 --> 48:21.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> SMITH: Despite opposition
from some hawks in D.C.,

48:21.400 --> 48:24.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Trump was widely praised
for the move.

48:24.833 --> 48:26.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
People in the administration

48:26.733 --> 48:30.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
were opposed to this,
so what was behind all that?

48:30.466 --> 48:34.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
>> I think it's very clear
what was behind that.

48:34.166 --> 48:36.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
He heard over the last
several months

48:36.700 --> 48:40.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
consistently from the Saudis,
from Erdogan, from others,

48:40.600 --> 48:44.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
that this was an
existential moment for Syria

48:44.033 --> 48:47.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
to get onto a path--
a long one, albeit--

48:47.566 --> 48:49.733 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
but a path
of recovery and successful

48:49.733 --> 48:52.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
political and economic
and security transition.

48:52.333 --> 48:54.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
And that that would be good
for regional interests,

48:54.666 --> 48:56.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
that would be good for
U.S. interests.

48:58.900 --> 49:02.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
>> SMITH: The following day,
al-Sharaa and Trump met.

49:02.366 --> 49:04.900 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
The former al-Qaeda commander,
who spent

49:04.900 --> 49:07.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
years in American prison camps
in Iraq,

49:07.533 --> 49:10.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5%
accused of making powerful
roadside bombs,

49:10.566 --> 49:12.533 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
had come a long way.

49:12.533 --> 49:14.266 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> Young, attractive guy.

49:14.266 --> 49:16.866 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
Tough guy, you know?

49:16.866 --> 49:20.033 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
Strong past, very strong past.
Fighter.

49:20.033 --> 49:22.966 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

49:22.966 --> 49:25.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
>> The situation is very fluid,

49:25.133 --> 49:28.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
we just have to wait
and see what happens.

49:28.300 --> 49:31.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
We need to see this
new administration

49:31.800 --> 49:34.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
be inclusive of all Syrians.

49:34.166 --> 49:36.400 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65%
We need to make sure

49:36.400 --> 49:40.766 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
that Syria will no longer be
a center of terrorism.

49:40.766 --> 49:42.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
(siren blaring)

49:42.766 --> 49:44.733 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
>> If Syria can be united

49:44.733 --> 49:49.133 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
and stable
and Iran can be kept out,

49:49.133 --> 49:52.533 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
then the temporary tactical
defeat of Iran and proxies

49:52.533 --> 49:54.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
will become a permanent defeat.

49:54.933 --> 49:58.533 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75%
If not, if Syria becomes a
failed state, if it goes back

49:58.533 --> 50:01.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
to active fighting
and various outside forces

50:01.233 --> 50:02.733 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
intervening and split up,

50:02.733 --> 50:04.466 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
it will open
the door for Iran again.

50:04.466 --> 50:06.433 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5%
(protesters shouting)

50:06.433 --> 50:08.266 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
>> SMITH:
As we were leaving Syria,

50:08.266 --> 50:12.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
events underscored just
how fragile al-Sharaa's rule is.

50:12.166 --> 50:13.800 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5%
(gunfire)

50:13.800 --> 50:16.633 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
Sectarian clashes
erupted in several cities,

50:16.633 --> 50:20.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
after a Druze religious
leader was falsely accused

50:20.000 --> 50:21.833 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
of insulting
the Prophet Muhammad.

50:21.833 --> 50:23.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
(people shouting, horn blaring)

50:23.533 --> 50:26.800 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5%
Around one hundred
Druze militia men

50:26.800 --> 50:28.400 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
and government
security forces were killed.

50:29.933 --> 50:32.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
>> NETANYAHU (speaking Hebrew):

50:35.533 --> 50:38.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
>> SMITH: The Israelis,
with a large Druze minority

50:38.133 --> 50:40.700 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50%
at home,
have been issuing warnings

50:40.700 --> 50:44.066 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
to al-Sharaa
not to harm the Druze.

50:44.066 --> 50:46.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5%
>> Israel carried out
airstrikes today in Damascus...

50:46.866 --> 50:48.100 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> SMITH: To make their point,

50:48.100 --> 50:50.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
an Israel missile landed
right outside

50:50.266 --> 50:52.500 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
al-Sharaa's palace gates.

50:52.500 --> 50:56.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
>> ...a direct message to stop
threatening the Druze community.

50:56.533 --> 50:58.966 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

50:58.966 --> 51:01.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
>> SMITH: For now,
al-Sharaa remains popular

51:01.466 --> 51:03.933 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
with the majority of Syrians.

51:03.933 --> 51:07.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But he has been keeping
a lower profile of late,

51:07.366 --> 51:10.366 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
avoiding most interviews.

51:10.366 --> 51:12.200 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50%
I mean,
he enjoyed a honeymoon.

51:12.200 --> 51:14.600 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
He talked
to diplomats like yourself.

51:14.600 --> 51:16.166 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5%
He talked to journalists.

51:16.166 --> 51:19.000 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5%
He visited
other regional states.

51:19.000 --> 51:22.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
But he's been relatively quiet.

51:22.033 --> 51:24.500 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55%
He's not in
a honeymoon phase anymore.

51:24.500 --> 51:27.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
>> No. And governance is hard.

51:27.400 --> 51:30.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5%
The easy part
is going on a foreign trip,

51:30.466 --> 51:33.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
but the hardest part
is internally.

51:33.033 --> 51:34.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
It's governance.

51:35.533 --> 51:39.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65%
It's the daily slog
of reconstructing

51:39.133 --> 51:42.366 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
an administrative apparatus,

51:42.366 --> 51:44.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
which is pretty worn and torn

51:44.066 --> 51:45.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75%
and riddled with corruption.

51:45.800 --> 51:49.900 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5%
From the years of destruction
of the Assad family rule.

51:49.900 --> 51:51.733 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
(siren blaring)

51:51.733 --> 51:54.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5%
It's a hard, hard road ahead.

51:54.066 --> 51:59.066 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45%
♪ ♪

52:35.033 --> 52:37.200 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
>> NARRATOR: Go to
pbs.org/frontline.

52:37.200 --> 52:40.033 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> Bashar al-Assad has clung
on to power through years

52:40.033 --> 52:41.300 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5%
of civil war.

52:41.300 --> 52:44.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
But now a new rebel movement has
managed to topple his regime.

52:44.066 --> 52:46.333 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> NARRATOR: For all our past
reporting on Syria

52:46.333 --> 52:49.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
and more on the human toll of
the Syrian War.

52:49.400 --> 52:52.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> Human rights organizations
estimate that tens of thousands

52:52.400 --> 52:55.533 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
of people have disappeared since
the Syrian conflict began.

52:55.533 --> 52:57.900 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
Connect with FRONTLINE on
Facebook and Instagram

52:57.900 --> 53:00.666 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5%
and stream anytime
on the PBS app,

53:00.666 --> 53:04.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
YouTube, or pbs.org/frontline.

53:24.633 --> 53:25.633 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55%
Captioned by

53:25.633 --> 53:26.633 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5%
Media Access Group at WGBH

53:26.633 --> 53:29.133 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60%
access.wgbh.org

53:32.800 --> 53:35.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5%
>> For more on this and other
"FRONTLINE" programs,

53:35.133 --> 53:39.300 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65%
visit our website at
pbs.org/frontline.

53:39.300 --> 53:54.133 align:left position:45% line:5% size:45%
♪ ♪

53:54.133 --> 53:56.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
FRONTLINE's "Syria After Assad"

53:56.933 --> 53:58.766 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5%
is available on Amazon
Prime Video.

53:58.766 --> 54:03.766 align:left position:45% line:5% size:45%
♪ ♪