Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.
This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.
McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.
This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.
Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.
Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.
♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.
We sure are glad you can join us tonight.
I'm Amanda McNulty, and I'm a Clemson Extension agent.
And I get to come over here with my good friend and co-host Terasa Lott, who's the Midlands district director?
I think I got it right that time.
Terasa> You did, you did.
It's sort of a fancy term just to say I oversee operations in nine counties in the heart of the state, but really, it's our staff, that get the shining gold stars because they're the ones that take the research based information and deliver it to the people that need it.
Amanda> Yep.
And, you know, our admins, they're the people who greet people when they come in.
And so often they they've learned how to do everything.
They can do soil test.
They know how to send things off.
And, they can be great, of great help to people.
Terasa> Absolutely.
They are really the faces of the Extension office, and do a fantastic job of connecting people with the right agent or the right service.
It might be sending something away to our plant pest and diagnostic clinic.
Amanda> Yeah, yeah, I think, there's a kind of a heart of wanting to help people, don't you?
Terasa> Yeah, there is.
Amanda> Well, and Dr. Adam Gore.
Oh.
(laughs) Congratulations.
Dr. Adam> It took long enough.
Thank you.
Amanda> Well, you did a lot... you've done more than a lot of us have done.
And, you are in Clarendon, Lee and Sumter and the master gardener coordinator.
That's a lot.
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
Came to Sumter back in August of this past year.
Amanda> Well, we're really glad to have you so close back.
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
Amanda> We really are.
Yeah.
And, you were telling me something that I had never heard of before.
That...when people call you and say they have moles... Dr. Adam> So, lately, everyone loves seeing those tunnels just pop up in their landscape and, walk through them, and suddenly you sink about six inches.
and whenever I get that call, the very first question I get is ...as odd as it might sound is like, how do you feel about cats?
because between all the potential poisons and, you know, getting rid of our food source, the pest control for moles, I found is going to your local humane society and adopting a cat.
Amanda> Really?
So they're just great at catching moles?
Dr. Adam> They're great at catching moles.
My middle cat is, probably the most effective mole control I've ever seen.
We've had her for six months, and she caught four moles Amanda> Whoa!
Dr. Adam>-out of our yard She's very talented.
And she doesn't tear up large sections to whereas, my Brittany spaniel has taken over that mantle, and, she just knows there's a mole somewhere, and she's going to find it.
Amanda> Oh, so you said the cats actually kind of sit there and watch to see maybe where the mole is?
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
so they'll, they'll wait for, or they'll find the actual entrance, because moles will actually have a lot of false entrances to their tunnels, but they'll have one main entrance, so they'll, the cats are smart enough to find that main entrance, and they'll just watch for any type of movement and Amanda> Pow!
Dr. Adam> And pow!
(Amanda laughs) Amanda> And then they bring them up and put them on your porch to let you know- Dr. Adam>-I have done my work.
Where's the treats?
Amanda> There you go.
Okay.
Well, that was weird.
(laughs) I've had lots of cats, and I never knew that, that was one of the things.
I've had cats that caught things and brought them in the house, but moles are new.
And, Christopher, we're so glad that you've joined us.
You're the horticulture agent, Berkeley, Dorchester and Charleston.
How are your people, doing with this, with the hot weather, and lack of rain that we had?
Christopher> I think most everyone's either staying indoors or have gone on vacation because it's been awfully quiet.
Though, I'm not complaining.
Amanda> Yeah, and I wonder if, you know, if the beach water's gotten warm.
Christopher> It's pretty warm.
Last time I was out there, it's, it's definitely quite warm.
And unfortunately, that...tends to mean that you get a lot of animals coming in.
And so we're getting, of course, a lot of, shark sightings and things like that.
Amanda> Really?
Oh, I didn't know that.
Goodness gracious.
Not much fun.
Christopher> No, but, I mean, there's sharks always there.
Amanda> Yeah.
Christopher> They're usually harmless.
Amanda> Yeah.
I'd sit on top of the pier at Pawleys Island when my brother used to take us there, Terasa and watch sharks just swimming between people, kind of vacuum up, look like they're kind of vacuuming on the bottom.
Terasa> That's right.
I mean, it's...the ocean is their habitat, right?
And people are kind of oblivious to the fact that they're there.
Amanda> It was a little hard to go back in (laughing) but I realized that... Well, thanks for coming up and being with us today.
And, so, we're going to have some segments for you and, Zack Snipes whom you all love so much went down to Simply Green Blackberries.
Everybody loves blackberries.
And this gentleman who grows them is a lot of fun and then GrowFood, which is a fascinating, nonprofit down in the Charleston area.
I think you'll enjoy both of those a lot.
Well, Terasa, did we have some Gardens of the Week or did people just give up when we had all that hot, dry weather?
Terasa> We have some, steadfast gardeners, it seems.
And I so look forward to putting out our call for Gardens of the Week.
It's your time to shine.
Show us what you're doing in your yard, your garden or a beautiful place.
And our state certainly has many of them.
So let's see what we have today.
We're going to begin with Gail Strong.
She's sent us a picture of her backyard pond garden.
And she said, it's her little piece of heaven.
I can understand why.
From Jane Harman, a lush landscaped area full of color in Campobello.
Corey Barker shared a passion flower growing in Brambles.
He said it's beauty among the thorns.
Amanda> (laughs) That's fun.
Terasa> From Bunny Sartor, a vibrant patch of bee balm surrounding a bird bath.
And last but not least, we wrap up with Lee Templeton, who shared a front garden bed full of colorful zinnias in Forest Acres.
Remember, these are just a random sampling of photos that were submitted on our Facebook page.
Whenever you see that call, don't be shy, post your photos in the comments and they might just appear on air.
Amanda> And people who are going to the Facebook page can see the other beautiful gardens that people sent pictures of.
Terasa> They can.
And for me, it's so inspirational.
I get ideas and think about things that maybe I want to try in my home or garden.
Amanda> Oh good.
Well, do you think we might be able to help some people with some problems, Terasa?
Terasa> I sure hope so.
I think that's what Making It Grow is known for.
Well, maybe an Extension, as a whole.
Melinda reached out from Wadmalaw Island.
And, oh, this is an interesting question, sort of unique, she said, can scuppernong grape leaves be used to make the Greek dish, the stuffed grape leaves, Dolmades?
Amanda> Well, Christopher, what do you think?
Christopher> So, yes, though there is a big caveat with that.
So obviously, a lot of times you use kind of the very large grape leaves that you find in Europe.
Unfortunately, the muscadine grape leaves are generally going to be a little bit tougher.
And so the best thing to do is- Amanda> -that makes sense, because if they're growing down here in the South, they've got to be tough.
Christopher> So if you're going to use them, generally the recommendation is to use the smaller, more immature leaves, which unfortunately can be a little bit tough because they're small.
So you have to use a lot more of them, It might be a little bit harder to cook.
One alternative you can actually do is use, collard leaves, which is actually something, that has been used in a lot of places in the Middle East where collards are actually from, and you can use those as kind of an alternative to grape leaves.
Amanda> Well, and we can get collards any time of the year.
Christopher> Exactly.
They grow great down here.
Amanda> Yeah, they sure do.
Yeah.
Well, that was really fun.
Thank you so much.
All right, Mrs. Terasa.
Terasa> And it has my brain thinking.
I'm like, whew, kind of a southern twist on a Greek dish.
And maybe I'll have to try that.
Amanda> We like to mix cultures, don't we?
Terasa> That's right.
How about Marie in Manning?
She said I just laid sod this week.
How often should I be watering it?
And what else should I do to take care of it?
Amanda> Goodness gracious.
Well, Adam, you're supposed to be a turf expert.
I don't know how in the world she got out there and got all that done.
Maybe a professional company put it out for her.
But, what does she do now, because it really needs to get established?
It's got to get its roots in the ground.
Dr. Adam> Right.
So, for our warm season grasses, which I imagine being in Manning, she's dealing with, the two best times to establish those grasses are either, in mid spring, so starting around May, or later part of the summer, we don't really like to establish grasses if we can help it in the middle of summer because of what we experienced this year of excessive heat, and dry weather.
Amanda> So kind of, you could go kind of into what we call fall, used to, but it's still real warm?
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
Amanda> Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Dr. Adam> So all we're trying to do is let these grasses have a time to actually peg down or put roots into the ground without having to experience some of the extremes, whether it be the extreme heat or, the potentially extreme cold that we can get, but to the question of irrigating, So when we're first putting any type of grass down, whether it's seed or sod, soil moisture is critical.
Amanda> Yes.
>> So we always try to keep, especially with sod, those top two inches moist.
So, so not flooded.
So you know, you don't want to be walking out there and just have water coming up.
I always tell people to use the, the moisture meter that they were given, also called your finger, and stick to the second knuckle, which for most people is about two inches.
Amanda> Okay.
Dr. Adam> And it should feel about like a wrung out sponge, for, for two weeks.
Amanda> For two weeks?
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
If you want to get more technical, you can take a little piece of soil.
And if you squeeze it, it should have, it should be able to hold form.
It shouldn't crumble, but also it shouldn't have water sapping out the sides of it.
So you keep it moist for two weeks, and then we start backing off.
So for most people, using an irrigation system, you're looking at watering at least early morning and late afternoon.
And our sandy soils, it might not be a bad year to put a third irrigation time in the middle of the day.
Amanda> Goodness!
>> So that your soil doesn't dry out.
Amanda> Well.
How much water should you apply at one time?
Dr. Adam> So for most of our South Carolina soils, they hold about an inch to an inch and a half of water in the top 12 inches of the soil.
Amanda> Yes.
>> So in a day, because we don't want to overdo too much where we're looking at probably wanting to do like a third of an inch of water a day, so maybe a 10th of an inch at a time, just... Amanda> Goodness.
And why the morning and early afternoon or late afternoon, which one?
>> So you do go in the early morning, one, because that's when plants have the highest potential to take up water.
Amanda> Do they?
Dr. Adam> So because the air is so thick with moisture, you don't have evaporation loss.
The plant has the greatest moisture potential.
So it, takes up the most water, then- Amanda>-gets a great big drink of water.
Dr. Adam> Right.
So then going into later afternoon, because these grasses, especially on sod, have such a small root system, it's more predisposed to drying out.
So we're just trying to keep those roots wet.
And also there's just a lot of stress that's happened during the day.
So it's just a chance for it to cool off and kind of, reorient itself to go in.
However, what we can see, because these grass are heavily fertilized to begin with.
Sometimes people go a little bit too much with that fertilizer.
And the sod has already been fertilized by the company that people will sometimes go too much.
So it's also not a bad idea to be putting out fungicide at this time, as well.
Amanda> Gosh, that's a lot.
Dr. Adam> Lawns are fun.
(all laugh) Terasa> Well, if you love grass, which obviously, you do.
But this is a very different watering regime than an established lawn.
Dr. Adam> Correct.
Terasa> So we want to make sure that our viewers are aware that this is not standard practice for your lawn.
It's already well established.
Dr. Adam> Once it's established, then at most, 2 to 3 times a week is when you should be watering, doing what we call deep and in frequent.
Amanda> And of course, Doug Tallamy would like for us to reduce the acres of lawn we have.
You could still have enough lawn to, you know, have a picnic and a slip and slide.
I think everybody needs to have slip and slides.
Terasa> Oh, that brings back childhood memories.
Amanda> Wasn't that fun?
They were so much fun.
But, there are other.
I mean, your yard doesn't have to be 19 acres of grass.
There's so many other things you can plant, that would be larval food sources.
And just...I mean, everybody wants a pretty lawn, but, some people just have huge, huge lawns and, and they're, they're really, use a lot of inputs, don't they?
Dr. Adam> Depending on the grass, you know, different grasses have different maintenance requirements.
And also...for me, a landscape should reflect the person.
So I think a lot of people appreciate diversity.
And there's always a good way to blend in your more traditional lawns and with some of our new, meadow style, prairie style lawns.
So there's a lot of opportunity to incorporate multiple, plant species into an area.
Amanda> Well, you phrase that very, in a very lovely manner.
Thank you.
Terasa> Yeah...kind of like your yard can have, can reflect your personality.
Dr. Adam> Exactly.
Amanda> Yeah!
Oh, okay.
Well, Zack Snipes took us down to a wonderful, farmer who's one of his good friends.
And I think you're going to enjoy the visit that we had.
♪ Zack> Hi, everyone.
My name is Zack Snipes.
I'm a county Extension agent for the Clemson University Cooperative Extension Service.
My job is to work with fruit and vegetable producers in the Lowcountry of South Carolina.
And today we're in Stewart Point or the, Seabrook area of Beaufort County.
And I get to interview one of my good friends, one of my favorite farmers, Roy Green of Simply Green Farm.
We got some rain today, but I'm happy to to have you here, Roy, today.
And, thanks for coming on the show.
Roy> Thank you, Zack.
It's good to be here.
Zack> Yeah, man.
So tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into farming.
Roy> I'm one of 14.
My mom and dad, had 14 children.
They were farmers.
I got into farming because they farmed, back in 1940.
They bought ten acres of land, for $100.
Zack> $100, Roy> $100 Zack>...for all ten acres Roy>...for all ten acres.
Zack> That's a good deal.
Roy> That was an excellent deal.
Mom, mom had the money, Dad didn't.
But, mom, saved up the money.
She had it.
And back then, when someone needed money to bury a loved one, instead of having the money, they would put up property.
So they put up the property, and she had the money, and she bought the land and, and the rest is history.
They, they farmed... they farmed a little bit of everything cucumbers, tomatoes, beans, squash, zucchini.
And it would take it to a local market.
I was, as a little boy, I was right there.
You know, either carrying the bucket or carrying the water or doing something.
Zack> Yep.
So, so you grew up farming.
Roy> Grew up farming.
Zack> Yep.
And then, and then you've continued farming the whole time or what happened between when you were a little boy and now?
Roy> Well, I, I kept on farming until, I got out of school and then I left, when I graduated from high school, I left and I went to New York for about 12 years.
And then I came back in 1992, and Dad had kind of stopped with farming.
He had an, you know, he was tired.
All the kids was gone after, you know, farming.
Everybody left.
Nobody wanted any parts of farming.
Farming was hard, I mean,... and the money wasn't there.
So, it was a better living.
People went in the... brothers and sisters went in the military or they went to the city.
And that's when I went and I came back.
Zack> And so you guys were able to hang on to the land that we're still on today?
Roy> Yes.
Yes, Mom, That was one thing mom always thought she was one.
She...was determined to keep the land.
And then, after the farming, then you had family members that moved in different parts of the land.
You know, we built houses here, you know, mobile homes.
So we still had the farm here and certain parts of it.
But it wasn't...it wasn't the whole thing wasn't farmed.
Zack> Right.
So then I get a call, I don't know how many years ago now, it says, "Hey, man, I want to start farming."
And so, you picked farming back up, I guess.
And so that's when you called me.
And, when I walked out here, it was just a bare piece of ground.
Man, we've come a long way in a few years, hadn't we?
Roy> Exactly, exactly.
I moved back, from New York in 1992, and Dad had stopped farming, so I kind of talked Dad back into getting into farming on a limited basis.
So he...he did it.
He gave it a try.
It gave us a little time to get to really bond together and, you know, get to know when we were small, you didn't really have time to talk to your dad.
He was working, busy working, busy doing this and that.
So, so I started back and then, I had an opportunity to buy another piece of land next to our property, which is this property right here, which is five acres.
And that's when I called you.
I cleared it off and I said, Zack, I want to do something with this property.
And I said, you know, I'm thinking about growing blackberries.
Zack> Yeah.
Roy> I talked to a farmer by the name of Mr. Jackie Barefoot.
And he was growing blackberries.
So I was intrigued, but I never I didn't know anything about it.
So that's when I called you.
Zack> Right.
And so I came out and we kind of talked about some things and looked at the land and, kind of made some suggestions on, you know, what way to orient the land and whatever and kind of pick some varieties out.
And now, now, what's the farm doing?
What are you growing here now?
Roy> I'm growing blackberries.
I bought some blackberry plugs ...from Nurse Farms, and it turned out great.
Like you said, we picked out an area.
We decided where the sun was going to be more sun.
We decided to put it in high tunnel and outside, so that worked out great.
Zack> For our viewers, that are watching that may not be familiar with a high tunnel.
What's what's a high tunnel?
Roy> A high tunnel is...
It's various names for it.
Some people call it a hoop house.
Some people call it a greenhouse.
It's just a sheltered area, with plastic that you can get the sun in, but you can, block out some of the rain.
You can block out the rain.
And you have some of them they're built different.
Mine has drop down sides.
So you have open sides and open front and back doors.
Zack> Okay.
So what's the advantage of being able to open the front doors and the sides of the greenhouse?
Roy> For ventilation.
You get more air circulation.
Down here in the south, you know it gets pretty hot.
Zack> It gets very hot.
So, so you have some blackberries growing under this high tunnel structure, and then you have some growing in the field.
Can you tell us a little bit about the differences and the nuances, because there are differences between the two, correct?
Roy> Correct.
Correct.
In the high tunnel, you can control the weather.
You can control the elements.
You even control the bugs to a certain degree.
So here you can, And then I have a water system.
I have a drip irrigation system in the high tunnel.
Outside, you get, you know, I can I have an irrigation system outside also, but I can't control the rain out there.
When it rains, it rains, and then with the bugs, you get more fungus.
You get more bugs, outside.
Zack> Outside than inside.
So...so it's a protected area.
It's a little more sheltered, and you can control things a little bit.
So you're quality's a little better on the berries, potentially.
Roy> Exactly.
And from my take...it..the berries are a little sweeter.
It's a little larger too, inside the high tunnel.
Zack> Well doesn't it get hot in this high tunnel?
How do you kind of combat that, especially during the summers?
Roy> Open up the sides, pretty much.
And...in one of them I have fans in it that kind of keep the air circulating, but I find that it really doesn't affect it that much.
Zack> Right.
You also use, I see on these tunnels, a black cloth.
Tell us a little bit about that and why you would use that black cloth.
Roy> That cloth is called a shade cloth.
What it does, it shades 25% of the sun out.
You can get various types of cloth.
You can get them up to 60% shade, but I choose 25% because I don't want to block out too much of the sun because as you know, you need the sun- Zack> -Right.
Roy>...for the blackberries.
Zack> But it blocks out enough to where, you know, maybe the berries aren't getting blistered by the sun.
It kind of knocks down some of the UV rays and keeps a little better quality on the berries.
Roy> Exactly, exactly.
And it kind of find a good niche right there with the 25%.
I think that works pretty good.
Zack> Right.
Well, tell us a little bit about, the varieties of blackberries you grow, because when I was growing up, I worked on a peach farm and we had blackberries and, the varieties you have here aren't like the varieties I had to pick they had thorns on them, and you came out all scratched up and bloody and that sort of thing.
So tell us a little bit about these and why you chose these varieties.
Roy> Yeah, I did some research and I, researched a company called Nurse Farms and they, they, produced this variety.
It's a plug.
It grows on a trellis.
It grows.
You put the plug in and it grows up, and it's thornless.
It's... Zack> Oh, so.
So you don't get scratched when you pick it.
Roy> You don't get scratched and you don't have to bend over as far to pick them.
You pick them.
You put it on a trellis and...you pick them on a vine and it grows from the cane and it goes to the laterals and the lateral, produces a berry.
Zack> Okay.
And so most blackberry varieties produce one crop a year, but these are different.
And they produce how many crops a year?
Roy> So far, two.
But, I got my fingers crossed I might have a third crop.
Zack> So three crops in one season?
Roy> Three crops in one... Zack> Yeah.
So, for those viewers at home, University of Arkansas has bred some varieties in the last couple of decades that actually produce blackberries twice a year.
but as we're seeing in the high tunnel, you might could get three crops a year out of them.
So that's very encouraging for a farmer, Roy> I think so, because with the high tunnel, you get that early picking in April and then you get a late picking- Zack> -So you're picking blackberries in April?
Roy> Picking in April.
You're starting to produce in April.
Zack> Wow.
So typically when I think of blackberries, we're thinking about getting them in, you know, May or June, but you're picking two months early.
Roy> Oh yeah.
People are... the customers are amazing, "Where do you get blackberries from at this time?"
"It's not.
It's out of season."
I said, "not Simply Green".
Zack> Right.
So under the high tunnel they're coming in earlier.
And then the field ones come in a little later.
And by the time the ones in the field come in, then the second crop is being produced on the ones in the tunnel.
Right?
Roy> Exactly.
Zack> So you're having basically a continuous harvest from April through when?
Roy> April, the season, the first picking normally lasts about 2 to 3 weeks, and then it stops and you prune everything out and then you can get another harvest.
probably in May, June, and then it stops again.
And then I'm hoping that I could get another harvest in August, August, September, October are Zack> Wow!
So, we were talking earlier before we started filming about, you know, the maintenance on these blackberries and, and how you fertilize them and water them and prune them and take care of them.
Can you walk us through what that process looks like for you?
Roy> That process is... is a long process.
A lot of, pruning and tipping, Blackberry demands a lot of pruning.
If you don't prune them, they grow... they can grow up to the ceiling.
So you got to tip, when you call it tipping, you just tip the edges of them, and that produces the lateral, the lateral shoots out.
And that's what hangs on to the trellis and you kind of tie them on the trellis.
Zack> Okay.
So the tip pruning.
So like we take one of these tips and pinch it.
And instead of being one it forks out into two.
And then it's going to produce blackberries on both ends of the thing.
Is that what you're saying?
Roy> And sometimes, even go three.
It'll fork out as much as three.
Zack> So...the viewers at home should be tip pruning if they want to get increased production.
Roy> Tipping is a key.
If you don't tip, you're missing out.
Zack> Right.
What do you do with the old canes that have died?
Because these canes grow.
They live.
They produce fruit, and then they die.
And it's fairly obvious to see which ones are dead.
How do you how do you manage that?
Roy> I prune old canes out and get rid of them.
I don't use them for anything else.
They're just old canes.
Hopefully, I'll find something to do with them.
But right now I don't have any use for them.
Zack> Right.
So that's a... that's a big task.
You know, I guess after harvest because you're excited about the harvest and then there's work to do after that.
Correct?
Roy> Blackberries are a lot of work.
Yeah, it's a lot of work to prune it.
You prune everything out.
Zack> Right.
All right, Roy.
So now we're at the phase where we're harvesting these blackberries.
Where are your markets?
Where are you getting rid of these things?
Roy> I provide blackberries to the Gullah co-op.
I provide blackberry to the community.
And the You-Pick bases.
And I also provide blackberry at a farmer's market.
That's where I'm... Zack> The Gullah Co-op, can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with them and how that process works?
Roy> They're a co-op.
That helps, minority farmers, Black farmers, and they, they help us, with distributing our berries.
Zack> So, it's been great to hear about your farm and what you're doing here, but I think you have a greater purpose than just growing blackberries and... you know, providing them to the co-op and the markets and stuff.
What's... the bigger purpose here?
Roy> It's just... the purpose that I really take pride in is keeping the heritage, keeping the legacy alive with farming in the community.
Back when I grew up, there were over 20 farmers in this area.
Now I'm the only one.
And keeping it going and, and...having the produce that people can come up and still get local produce, produce from, from a local farmer.
And they look forward to it.
I got, I got customers calling me every day.
When will your okra be ready?
When will your peas be ready?
So, it's to keep it going and to have that, that pleasure in knowing that you're offering a good product, you know- Zack> -to the people you live around?
>>To the people I live around.
Zack> That's right.
Roy> And they come back, every year.
<Zack> Yep.
And because it's less and less farmers exist now.
in areas in our community Zack> And I know you're providing a service to the community in that way, but you also give back, by exposing youth to agriculture.
Can you tell us a little bit about how you're involved there?
Roy> Yeah, I work with the local schools.
I work with the Whale Branch Elementary, Middle and High School.
We have a not for profit, organization called Heritage Community Farm, where we build gardens and the students are actively involved and they get the go from start to finish, planting to harvesting.
And they get, they get a big thrill out of it.
You could, you should see them, and during Thanksgiving, when we grow collard greens and cabbage and they get to take it home and enjoy it, Zack> Proud of it, huh.
Roy> I love it because you can see the excitement on their face.
They don't know about these things, but they grew up in this community and they have... very little knowledge of what this community was all about.
It was all about farming.
Zack> Right.
And you're also providing potentially a place for them to work, you know, if they come through the program and they have something to do, if they, if they're interested in farming one day.
Roy> That's right.
Because... a lot of young people, they have different talents.
And sometimes at a young age they don't know which way to go.
And if you can get them started in something that they like, you know, maybe they'll catch on, or maybe they'll be a Zack, one of these days.
Zack> Or maybe they'll be a Roy, one day.
Roy> Maybe, you know, Zack> Roy, thank you for letting us come out today and doing this interview and hearing a little bit about your history and your vision, and your, really your heart for your community and the young generations coming up.
We appreciate you having us today.
Roy> Well, I thank you for coming out.
And before you go, I have a special treat.
My wife, Jackie, she makes, blackberry lemonade.
That's one of the way that we use our blackberries.
And you're going to love it.
Zack> All right, man, I'm pumped.
♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Thanks to Zack for taking us out.
And I can see why Mr. Green's one of your favorite farmers.
And we want to thank ETV Lowcountry, who were just wonderful to help us get the B-roll.
and thank you guys.
You really helped us make, what I think is a really good segment.
Thanks a lot.
So, hats, hats, hats.... You know, Terasa, So it's kind of hard to find stuff, but I was very lucky.
And, I've got some mountain mint, which is the white one, and it just has a wonderful smell.
And, and I think that's, a favorite of pollinators.
Terasa> It is.
Usually it's all abuzz.
(all laugh) I don't think I'll be a stand up comedian (all laugh) Amanda> And then some fennel one, even though this is native, I do think some of our caterpillar larvae, can feed on this.
Isn't that right?
Terasa> That is right.
The black swallowtail, yes, uses lots of things in the... let's see if I get this right, the Apiaceae family.
So your parsley and your fennel and, sometimes people get upset because the they'll eat your herbs down to nubs.
So it's a good strategy if you plant some for you and some for them too.
Amanda> And fennel's pretty robust and fortunately so.
Yeah, you probably have some of that.
But fennel's fun to walk out in the garden and just pinch some seeds off and, and chew on those too.
I like the way they taste.
Well, whom else can we help?
Terasa> That is a great question.
How about Bill from Beaufort?
He said, "I've seen Avocados available in local nurseries.
"Can I grow them..." and is "there anything special I need to know?"
Amanda> My husband and I go round and round and round because he wants to save all the Avocado seeds and they're not a very attractive houseplant, because we have to bring them in the winter.
But, I mean, I don't live in the Lowcountry.
What's the story down there?
Christopher> Well, even, even in the Lowcountry, you're really going to bring them in, in the winter.
So even the most cold tolerant Avocados are really only tolerant to about 24 degrees.
And we will occasionally have cold, cold enough winters, even along the coast, below 24 degrees, which means essentially you're bringing them in or covering them at any point during their existence.
And the big thing with starting from seed.
So I get this question a lot, where you start from seeds similar to citrus, Avocados have what's known as a juvenility period in which you are basically nursing it along and not getting any fruits or flowers from it for close to 10 to 12 years- Amanda> -10 to 12 years?
Christopher>...which is a significant amount of time- Amanda> -to wait for an Avocado.
Christopher> Exactly.
and then when it does finally flower, you have essentially a small tree that you then have to find either a big enough pot or put it out in the yard where it can be protected.
That all being said, Avocados are one of those plants that I generally find more trouble than it's worth.
not only is the cold tolerance a huge question, but there are several diseases that actually affect them as well, and the one that I get the most concerned with... so along the coast, we used to have all these beautiful red bay trees.
Red bays are very close relatives to the Avocados.
They're actually in the same genera.
and unfortunately, what happened is, is the ambrosia beetle spread laurel wilt.
So any plant within the Lauraceae family is unfortunately going to have some susceptibility to it.
And Avocados, it's one of the first things if you discuss Avocado growing anywhere, that's one of the first things you discuss is that possibility.
And of course in Lowcountry where it's so prevalent, it's generally something I'm not usually going to recommend.
I will say I've seen the occasional Avocado tree doing well, in downtown Charleston, where you have the heat island effect.
So that kind of microclimate where it's nice and warm even there, though, we're not seeing necessarily Avocado groves.
We're seeing a tree here and there.
And the big thing with Avocados, if you grow one, you have to have another one to help pollinate, Amanda> Oh la, la, Christopher> which can unfortunately be a little bit tricky because, they have different pollination schedules.
So you have to have a group A pollinator and a group B pollinator because they're going to produce and accept pollen at different times.
And you have to check to make sure that not only is it cold (tolerant) enough, but is it going to be able to pollinate the Avocado you currently have?
Amanda> Goodness gracious.
...if you grew one, you wouldn't have any idea what it was.
Christopher> Exactly.
So I...it's a big one that I tend to discourage though I understand because they're getting expensive.
Unfortunately it can be a little bit more work than it's worth.
Amanda> So really, the answer is no.
Christopher> Really...yes.
Dr. Adam> That sounds like $40 worth of work for a $2 vegetable.
Christopher> Exactly.
(all laugh) Amanda> But I love hearing that they've got to have pollinators.
That's fascinating.
Christopher> Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And it's a beauty.
I think it's a pretty tree.
Though, as you say, it's not a very attractive houseplant.
Amanda> Yeah.
No, no.
These skinny little things.
(all laugh) Well, Terasa, who else is in need of some guidance?
Terasa> I'm a little disappointed because I do love Avocados.
Amanda> They sure are good.
Terasa> Anyway.
Well, Larry reached out from Myrtle Beach, and Larry is in luck because he has a question about grass.
And we have our expert here.
So Larry said, "I have Torpedo grass in my Bermuda lawn.
"What can I do?"
Amanda> Well, Adam, I don't know what Torpedo grass is.
But I guess, it's something that this person doesn't want.
Dr. Adam> So Torpedo grass is, in my opinion, one of the top three most difficult grassy weeds to control in the world.
Amanda> Oh, my Lord.
>> So, it was brought to the Gulf Coast areas as a potential forage for livestock, as a lot of our- Amanda> -It was purposely introduced.
Dr. Adam> It was purposely introduced.
Amanda> Like kudzu.
Dr. Adam> Like...kudzu.
But, it turns out that cattle don't really get a lot from it.
So, as all of our introduced plants do, they find a place where they can take hold and they start to spread.
So torpedo grass looks a lot like the Zoysia grass does.
It's going to be very stiff.
And the leaves are hairy, but it loves moist areas.
So, it's particularly a problem along the coastal regions, along, ditch banks and in, marsh areas that stay damp.
And the reason its such a problem is that the rhizomes.
So there's underground stems, and the roots can go six feet deep.
Amanda> Six feet deep?
Dr. Adam> So trying to find a way to control a plant- Amanda> Six feet down into the soil?
Dr. Adam> So everyone gets, all a fuss about how deep the roots are on the lawn, native grasses...can get.
Well, some of these invasive weeds can do the same.
So that's one of the biggest issues in controlling this plant.
So fortunately for Larry, he does have a grass that's a little bit more tolerant to some of the options that we do have.
So most of the time it ends up being that you have to spray with these nonselective, like a glyphosate product and just start over.
But you have- Amanda> -the whole yard?
>> Well, at least where the plant is, <Amanda> Where it is.
>> But with as aggressive as these stolons are, you're looking at probably having to spray anywhere from 4 to 6 times just to control this Torpedo grass.
Amanda> Golly, Pete!
That's a lot.
Dr. Adam> So, if he doesn't want to go the nonselective route, there is a product called Quinclorac.
It's, if you ever see a product that's, described as crabgrass killer, it's normally a Quinclorac product, but he's going to have to spray it three times, 21 days apart for at least two years.
Terasa> Two years?
Dr. Adam>He can only do it three times a year because that's the maximum legal allowable rate.
Amanda> And for how many years?
Adam> At least for 2 to 3 years.
because you're essentially having to starve the plant.
Um...so, because of how serious that problem is, we really encourage people if they're bring in field dirt because that's how, this plant spreads.
And a lot of our invasive plants in general.
You know, they hide in field dirt, that people bring in for construction.
or, any type of laying for landscape, bring in just small segments of weedy or invasive plants.
So really, you know, try to get, reputable sources, to...for that field dirt so that you have a limit to reduce chance.
Also, if you have a landscape company, ask that they do try to rinse their mowers off so we don't have the transport of potential weed seeds between yards.
So there's no formula or...acceptable parameters for topsoil.
It's just whatever you can get.
Right?
Right.
so you do have companies that will try to, certify their topsoil.
In terms of curing it, pretty much seeing it through a heat treatment to try to sanitize it.
Amanda> Really.
>> That's going to cost this.
So you're going to have increased prices, and a lot of people and they just think, well, I just need fill dirt or they're looking for massive amounts.
So, they're not looking for quality.
We're looking for quantity.
Amanda> Well, and when people come so many people are moving here Terasa, and lots of developments are going up.
And the developer has done all the work before they get there.
So they didn't have any control over what topsoil or filter.
Christopher> And a lot of that soil is being moved around too.
When they develop, they scrape it clean and then they move it, sell it off to someone else.
And that's oftentimes how that's being spread around.
And you're just seeing that more and more as the developments spread.
Amanda> And getting a cow won't help?
(all laugh) You know, well...shoot...
I mean, that...(laughs) Well, shoot!
Terasa> Probably not allowable in most HOAs.
(all laugh) I like the creative thinking.
Amanda> Cows are kind of fun, you know.
Okay, well, okay Terasa.
That was kind of a discouraging question, but thanks for at least giving him an option I really appreciate it.
Is that a herbicide that he can afford?
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
Amanda> It's not horribly expensive.
Dr. Adam> No.
So a lot of these, Quinclorac products are very, because that product's been around for so long, you can get them in generic form.
So they're can (be) very cheap compared to a lot of other options.
Amanda> Okay.
Well thanks for that happy news.
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
Amanda> All right, Terasa.
Terasa> Well this one is a pretty simple question.
It came in from Mary in Summerville.
She said, she has a weed in her yard, and she would like us to help her identify it.
Amanda> Well, Christopher, I think you looked at that picture and, came up with an answer.
Christopher> Well, because it's easy to find.
so I brought in a sample pulled in from a drive or, parking lot.
Actually, it was a gravel parking lot.
So, tells you how easily this thing grows, but the weed itself is called poor man's pepper, or pepper wart or pepper grass there's a 100 different names.
but the pepper part is, I find very interesting.
So it's a plant that's in the Brassica family, and so- Amanda> Tell people what that means, Christopher> which means it's related to, like, broccoli, collards, things like that.
and the big thing with that is, is a lot of plants in that family are at least remotely edible.
but the nice thing about this one is it's got a slight peppery taste.
Amanda> I mean, I'd love to pick it up when I'm out walking Christopher> The foliage, is can be put in salads.
It has a similar not quite as rich as arugula but it has kind of a similar pepperiness to it.
And the, the immature seed pods can actually be used as an alternative to black pepper corn, which of course does not grow here.
It's not native here.
Amanda> So this is native Christopher> This is native here So while it's a weed, unfortunately most people don't really like it, you're not really cultivating it.
If you happen to see it out, again, that the foliage is, is quite tasty, and it grows just about anywhere and is quite an interesting little plant.
Amanda> Well, and Terasa, it can get kind of big, and, it's beautiful dried.
Terasa> Oh, that I can see being used in an arrangement.
Christopher> Yeah.
Well, it's got these disc shaped seed pods.
I mean, those flowers kind of come out.
They're white.
They're not super showy, but those seed pods persist, even when it dies.
And of course, when it dies, it's got this nice, interesting shape with its interesting seed pods.
I think it's quite, quite attractive, dry.
Amanda> And it's not found in turf grass.
It's not a problem there.
(laughter) Dr. Adam> If it was.
Brassicas are fairly easy to maintain- Amanda> But I've never seen.
I mean, you usually just kind of see it when you're walking around the side of the road and you know, cracks and things like that.
Well thanks, Christopher.
That was a lot of fun, and I'm going to pit some of that and had it with my lunch, if that's okay.
I think it's wonderful to see how farmers, especially down in, you know, they might specialize in one thing and it's hard for them to find a market for things and transport it there and all that.
And so there's a movement to... to make it easier for them to do that, and one of the places is GrowFood Carolina.
Amanda> I'm in Charleston, South Carolina, talking to Benton Montgomery.
And you're the program director for GrowFood Carolina.
and I think you all are under the umbrella of the Coastal Conservation League.
So tell us about your, parent organization and about y'all.
Benton> Absolutely The Coastal Conservation League, saw the need to preserve the rural resources, down here along the coast, they saw the development kind of encroaching and wanted to provide, situation to where farmers could stay on their land to protect this beautiful, land, water, and wildlife we have in the area.
And so, they created the GrowFood Carolina program, where we are a nonprofit food hub that helps those growers, find markets for their, different produce, as well as offering services to connect them to different resources like grants, as well as crop planning and stuff like that then, should go with with the main goal of preserving many acres of land for, rural, use that we can Amanda> because you've got great farmers.
But how in the world could you be a farmer and figure out who was gonna, you know, to whom you could, you know, take your products and, and then get them there driving all over east Carolina, you know, trying to get all that done.
And y'all kind of... do all of that for them.
All they have to do is get stuff here I believe.
Benton> That's right.
So we provide the aggregate, aggregation to store the food here and then the distribution.
We have the sales team that has great networks amongst all the different restaurants here in Charleston, as well, Savannah, Columbia, Greenville, Hilton Head, and Bluffton as well.
I know this is expanded a lot- Amanda> And so about how many farmers do your deal with in this area now, what you think?
Benton> It's about, about 100 total farmers that stretch all across the entire state, north, our focus and most of our growers are kind of down here in the Lowcountry.
Amanda> Lots of farmers, lots of restaurants.
How do you make it all come together?
Benton> So we have an awesome team that is constantly communicating with our growers to find out what their availability is going to be, how the weather is affecting it, how much they're going to have available, and they're communicating with our sales team to find out, okay, it's going to show up on this day, this many cases.
They're on the phone with the different restaurants and then updating our avail- ability list, which is kind of like a live look in on what we're going to have, on site so that, chefs can come to the warehouse or they can place an order and we'll deliver to them.
Amanda> Along the same lines as what y'all want to do, The South Carolina Department of Agriculture promotes fresh on the menu, which ties in beautifully with your concerns.
Benton> No, it does, and it's all about kind of, you know, providing consumer education around seasonality.
And some of them, have had a great relationship with SCDA for, for a long time, and helping with those kind of resources.
Amanda> I followed, y'all during the pandemic, of course, all the restaurants were closed.
And that was the basis of your whole operation there between the farmers and the restaurants.
And y'all started some pretty incredible outreach programs.
Benton> No, we did and you're right, it was like, all of a sudden there's all this produce had been planned, for the...for the year, and then there were no restaurants to really sell to at that time.
And so we developed, the Soil to Sustenance program at GrowFood Carolina, which, we bring in funds to then build boxes, or we purchase produce from the farmers with those funds, and then build boxes and then work with other organizations to make sure we're getting those out to those in need.
So everything was growing and ready to be harvested, and now we had funds to purchase that.
The way that we kind of fuel our, Soil to Sustenance program is through our direct, GrowFood Carolina boxes that we sell to our, the public and to different donors, that we... they will buy a box and also donate funds to the, Soil to Sustenance program to fund that food access side, which then kind of morphed into our working with the Head Start programs here in Charleston County, where we've partnered with different health care organizations like, Diabetes for USC and the MUSC Boeing... Center for Children's Wellness.
And they've provided partnerships and funding for us to purchase produce to then, distribute to about 900 or so families on the every other week basis here in Charleston County to about 13 to 14 different schools.
So we have...the growers bring all that produce to us.
and then we use, a volunteer group to build the boxes, and then we distribute out to the different schools there.
And that's been a really big game changer for us, how we're able to plan with certain growers and then even sell products that we don't sell as much to restaurants like, cabbage, collards, and sweet potatoes... been able to help us really, increase the volume for those type of, products- Amanda>-which the consumers are delighted to have.
Benton> Yeah, absolutely.
Amanda> And I think occasionally, if there's something in there that's a little bit different, you'll sometimes even have people develop menus, or recipes, and, and you communicate with the children and their parents so that you can get them to try new things.
Benton> Right.
And so, providing recipes has been a big part of that program as well, and making sure to partner with folks who can... also providing kind of like, education around the nutrition and actually preparing the meals as well, I think is a fundamental part of the, the process, which is kind of where we got with the, the virtual taste test that we started about a year and a half or so ago- Amanda>A virtual taste test?
So lets talk about that.
Benton> We will deliver fruits to different, schools.
so we've worked different, schools districts, we've worked with, Barnwell, with Anderson, Beaufort, Hampton, several different school districts.
And we'll deliver the produce directly to the schools.
And then the next day we'll jump on to a virtual taste test where we'll talk about the different nutritional aspects, kind of some of the science and history behind different varieties of fruit.
And then we taste the fruit together and then the most fun is taking the questions and answers from the, from the elementary school kids.
You know, they provide the real interesting, moments there.
Amanda> Because some of them may not have even had blueberries before or some of the other things that you provide sometimes Benton> Definitely, and, and so...they love to learn about the way it grows because they haven't seen it growing in action.
So that's always a fun part, as well.
And just to get something so fresh versus some of the grocery store stuff, they're always excited about that.
Amanda> So that's become a major part of your mission statement now.
Benton> It has.
It absolutely has.
And it's, really been able to still crop plant in certain ways and also just engage back with community, with the public, and which it also, for our employees and teams here, really love.
And I think, you know, you've seen some of them as well as spoken with them, they love the food access side of things.
Because it does, it feels good, It always feels good to sell to restaurants cause you're helping with the growers, it feels even better, when you do the full circle thing and then, you know, feed the community, like like that from the, the awesome produce you get from our growers in the area.
Amanda> Benton, the original mission, which was to help farmers keep their family lands in the family and to let restaurants showcase how wonderful the food that our farmers grow is, was already pretty exciting, but now, with the Soil To Sustenance, and getting things to people who would never get to go to these fancy restaurants and all that, and getting children to understand what's happening in their local communities, what's being grown and where it all comes from.
It's just a wonderful idea that you all have, and I'm so happy that you've been able to expand it and make it what it is now.
Thank you.
Benton> Thank you so much, Amanda.
We appreciate you highlighting us here, us, in the story is, we look to improve as much, you know, food access in the area that we can.
Amanda> I hope you enjoyed learning about that and seeing how they're trying to get kids to try different foods.
It's just a great organization.
We've had a good time going down there.
Well Terasa, who else can we help?
Terasa> We are hopefully going to help Janet in Edisto Island.
I can feel the distress in these words.
She says, "I can't seem to get anything "to grow in my yard between the sandy soil and the deer.
"Do you have any ideas?"
Amanda> Goodness gracious.
And deer, you know, with all the development that's going on, they really are having to go anywhere and everywhere to try to find something to eat.
Terasa> They're a big problem for our, for our larger Ag producers, as well.
Soybeans, I know, are a favorite.
So I know we have, some folks doing research on how, how we can effectively deal with that deer pressure.
Amanda> Oh, gracious goodness.
Well, what do you think, Christopher?
Christopher> Well, one of the things that I always tend to turn to when it comes to deer, are grasses.
And so oftentimes grasses are things that deer will browse on, but it really doesn't affect the plant, and generally they're not going to like it nearly as much as other things.
And so there's lots of different native grasses that can be grown.
Obviously, they're not going to touch your turf grass for the most part, but they're also generally not going to touch a lot of ornamental grasses, especially the native ones.
So things like your sweet grass, things like your Switch grass, things like your Fakahatchee, any of those.
And so I find a lot of those really work well, and generally you're not necessarily the most difficult ones to find, especially with the kind of emergence of a lot of these native plant groups, whether it's a native plant society, whether it's these nurseries that are producing them.
And of course, a lot of them are really starting to encourage those native grasses.
And the other group that I really love to see more of, and especially if you have a little bit of shade, are what's known as sedges, specifically sedges in the Carex genus.
Of course, Carex is a very large genus, it's one of the largest, in the world.
And of course, there's so many different types we have.
I mean, 100 different species here in South Carolina, but there are several that work really well, kind of as that kind of grass like plant.
And of course, deer do not like sedges at all.
Amanda> Sedges have edges.
Christopher> Sedges have edges.
And so oftentimes those will work really well, especially because they're already found oftentimes in those sandy soils.
Amanda> Adam, do the native grasses have a deep taproot or is the root system pretty extensive, sometimes?
Dr. Adam> So with a lot of our, our native plants, they, they do have a reputation for having deeper roots because we don't mow them, we're not constantly pruning the top of them so it allows their root system to develop further.
Amanda> That's why it happens?
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
So, you know, as you kind of plant all that energy has to go back into regeneration, so it's, it's stealing from the roots, essentially.
But like Chris was saying, especially with our sandy soils, they are typically very low fertility.
So our native grasses from, the, the Midlands now have developed, kind of to be sustainable in very poor low fertility soil.
So whereas, with as much as it pains me, whereas a turf grass may be a little bit more maintenance because of poor soil, these native grasses, they're adapted to it, they can tolerate it.
And the other nice thing about native grasses is because there's been more of an emphasis on it.
we do have various cultivars of it.
It's not just, what you see, naturally- Amanda> If you were walking around Dr. Adam> So, you can get various, colors.
but then also with grasses... they're under appreciated for they're texture that they bring to a landscape.
You have so many different colors and feels to them- Amanda> And they're different heights?
Dr. Adam> Exactly.
So, you know, I believe the very one of the more under appreciated parts of the landscape because of, not just their color but texture.
But then also they do have flowers.
People don't appreciate the flowers of grasses, but they do have, you know, various looks to them.
So, broomsedge, everyone thinks about having those, speckled little, feathery parts on them.
those are flower seed heads.
And...they add a nice texture to a landscape that, as Chris was saying, are not palatable to, deer, deer, more forbs and prefer broadleaf and well, Amanda> Well will they spread from seeds or?
Dr. Adam> So when establishing some of these plants, we find that the germination rate for their, their, seeds are low, and also for a lot of these native grasses, they evolved with the development of fire.
So they do require, either some type of stratification, or scarification.
So the seed has to be disturbed, or you do have to have some type of temperature inversion to actually encourage them to develop.
Amanda> Well, should I buy... if they're not going to do that, should I try to find a lot of smaller ones or can you find them in a smaller size?
Dr. Adam> Yes, ma'am.
I find that going with three inch plugs, so quart size plants, you know, we were, that's what we're discussing, finding them from local nurseries, with the expanse, or expansion of interest in natives, a lot more people carrying them.
Amanda> Thank you so much.
And I think some of them are larval food sources, which is also great.
It's great that you are with us tonight, and I hope you'll be with this next time too.
Night, night.
♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.
This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.
Mcleod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.
This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.
Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.
Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.