1 00:00:00,866 --> 00:00:02,866 - [Narrator] Montana Ag Live is made possible 2 00:00:02,866 --> 00:00:06,066 by the Montana Department of Agriculture, 3 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:09,333 MSU Extension, 4 00:00:11,866 --> 00:00:15,466 the MSU Ag Experiment Station of the College of Agriculture, 5 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:18,933 the Montana Wheat & Barley Committee, 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,766 Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, 7 00:00:25,566 --> 00:00:27,266 and the Gallatin Gardeners Club. 8 00:00:27,266 --> 00:00:29,866 (guitar music) 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,400 - Welcome everyone to another episode of Montana Ag Live, 10 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:52,033 coming to you live from the KUSM studios 11 00:00:52,033 --> 00:00:55,133 on the campus of Montana State University. 12 00:00:55,133 --> 00:00:57,700 My name's Tim Seipel, I'm your host tonight 13 00:00:57,700 --> 00:01:00,200 and we have a great panel organized 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,033 to talk about horticulture, 15 00:01:02,033 --> 00:01:04,400 to talk about organic agriculture, 16 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,000 to talk about all our spring gardening needs. 17 00:01:08,433 --> 00:01:11,033 Tonight, our special guest, I'll introduce the panel, 18 00:01:11,033 --> 00:01:12,300 we'll go from left to right. 19 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:14,433 Over here we have Perry Miller, 20 00:01:14,433 --> 00:01:17,766 he's our Cropping Systems professor. 21 00:01:17,766 --> 00:01:19,466 Next to him, our special guest, 22 00:01:19,466 --> 00:01:23,033 John Wick from Tiber Organics. 23 00:01:23,033 --> 00:01:26,066 He's gonna tell us all about his organic operation 24 00:01:26,066 --> 00:01:30,866 up near ledger, and all his crop health and crop diversity. 25 00:01:30,866 --> 00:01:33,766 We have Mac Burgess tonight to answer all your 26 00:01:33,766 --> 00:01:35,533 very, very challenging 27 00:01:35,533 --> 00:01:39,033 and difficult horticultural questions about, 28 00:01:39,033 --> 00:01:41,600 especially in vegetable gardening. 29 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,033 And we have Abi Saeed, our horticulture specialist, 30 00:01:45,033 --> 00:01:47,100 and she's gonna tell us all about 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,533 all the different issues we're gonna face this spring 32 00:01:51,533 --> 00:01:52,833 when we get to it. 33 00:01:52,833 --> 00:01:54,500 So, you guys know how it works. 34 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:57,800 Call in with your live questions, get us some questions 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:58,866 to the panel. 36 00:01:58,866 --> 00:02:00,566 And I'm gonna come back to you John, 37 00:02:00,566 --> 00:02:04,133 tell us about Tiber or Ridge Organics 38 00:02:04,133 --> 00:02:06,566 and your organic operation. 39 00:02:06,566 --> 00:02:11,333 - Yeah, so I started out farming after my dad passed away 40 00:02:11,333 --> 00:02:13,933 and kind of did things the way he had been doing it 41 00:02:13,933 --> 00:02:15,600 for about 10 years 42 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,966 and got interested in some organic agriculture 43 00:02:18,966 --> 00:02:21,100 and took out some CRP 44 00:02:21,100 --> 00:02:23,366 and just dove kind of right in without 45 00:02:23,366 --> 00:02:25,766 really knowing very much and learned quite a bit. 46 00:02:25,766 --> 00:02:27,900 But I ended up kind of falling in love with 47 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:30,500 that kind of agriculture and farming that way 48 00:02:30,500 --> 00:02:33,900 and decided to convert the whole farm to organic 49 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:36,900 and try different experiments every year 50 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:39,466 and really love growing cover crops. 51 00:02:39,466 --> 00:02:41,900 - So you got interested in organic agriculture, why? 52 00:02:41,900 --> 00:02:43,833 And then I want to hear about the CRP story, 53 00:02:43,833 --> 00:02:44,633 how that worked. 54 00:02:44,633 --> 00:02:46,500 - Yeah, that was a challenge. 55 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:48,800 Yeah, I guess we were just kinda struggling 56 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,066 as a small family farm 57 00:02:51,066 --> 00:02:53,266 and you know, it was hard to pay the bills. 58 00:02:53,266 --> 00:02:55,600 And so we were looking at different like niche markets 59 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,000 to try and get ahead or get even. 60 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,000 And so we looked into the organic 61 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,033 and I just kind of was having a little more fun 62 00:03:02,033 --> 00:03:05,566 and then seeing, you know, the return on those acres 63 00:03:05,566 --> 00:03:08,433 and the mitigating that risk a little bit 64 00:03:08,433 --> 00:03:10,266 was just really appealing 65 00:03:10,266 --> 00:03:12,400 and just fun learning all these different things 66 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,900 about soil health. 67 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:18,700 And the CRP was a little challenging to get into that. 68 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:21,366 I think it was actually easier to transition already 69 00:03:21,366 --> 00:03:22,466 in production ground. 70 00:03:22,466 --> 00:03:26,366 I struggled with alfalfa breaking that up and the grass 71 00:03:26,366 --> 00:03:28,533 and you know, there's still patches out there 72 00:03:28,533 --> 00:03:32,533 where it's, alfalfa pretty thick, so that's a challenge. 73 00:03:32,533 --> 00:03:35,000 And really dry and I don't know if we had the best cover 74 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,833 or CRP mix, you know, back when we put it in, 75 00:03:37,833 --> 00:03:40,400 it was in CRP for about 20 years, so. 76 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:41,900 - Okay. - Long time. 77 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:43,800 - Alright, thanks. 78 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,966 We're gonna come back and ask you some more questions. 79 00:03:45,966 --> 00:03:48,600 I was remiss I forgot to introduce 80 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,400 our phone operators tonight. 81 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,066 We have Cheryl Bennett 82 00:03:52,066 --> 00:03:55,366 and Candace Lamoury who are answering our phones tonight, 83 00:03:55,366 --> 00:03:57,633 so please be sure to call in 84 00:03:57,633 --> 00:04:00,766 and keep them both busy on the phone lines. 85 00:04:00,766 --> 00:04:04,433 Okay, so, well we have a question that did come in 86 00:04:04,433 --> 00:04:06,266 and it's actually about Kernza. 87 00:04:06,266 --> 00:04:09,166 And this was a little bit related to last week's episode 88 00:04:09,166 --> 00:04:11,200 where we talked about malt barley. 89 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,500 So here at MSU, Jamie Sherman, who was on last week, 90 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:17,666 has been working on Kernza beer brewing, 91 00:04:17,666 --> 00:04:21,366 and this caller wanted to know what is Kernza 92 00:04:22,266 --> 00:04:25,933 and can it be grown in Montana? 93 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:28,266 I'll let you handle that one Perry. 94 00:04:28,266 --> 00:04:32,266 - Okay, so Kernza is, it's the type of perennial wheat 95 00:04:32,266 --> 00:04:36,800 and it's a hybrid between, well, it's got some genetic cross 96 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,133 between intermediate wheat grass 97 00:04:39,133 --> 00:04:40,800 and conventional wheat. 98 00:04:41,866 --> 00:04:44,066 And there's different ways to arrive 99 00:04:44,066 --> 00:04:44,966 at this perennial wheat. 100 00:04:44,966 --> 00:04:47,800 The Kernza type was actually arrived at 101 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,866 by starting with the perennial grass intermediate wheat 102 00:04:50,866 --> 00:04:53,133 and trying to inter-grass wheat genes 103 00:04:53,133 --> 00:04:55,166 into that to get larger seeds. 104 00:04:55,166 --> 00:04:56,866 So it's essentially grass seed, 105 00:04:56,866 --> 00:04:59,600 but it's, you know, you want larger seeds 106 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,133 that start to look a little bit like wheat. 107 00:05:02,133 --> 00:05:04,133 So yeah, it can be grown. 108 00:05:04,133 --> 00:05:08,033 We are growing some at our research farm here at Bozeman, 109 00:05:08,033 --> 00:05:09,166 getting some experience with it. 110 00:05:09,166 --> 00:05:11,033 It was a little more challenging to establish 111 00:05:11,033 --> 00:05:13,533 than I've, you know, I've grown lots of different crops 112 00:05:13,533 --> 00:05:14,633 and lots of different perennials 113 00:05:14,633 --> 00:05:17,266 and this one for whatever reason was more challenging 114 00:05:17,266 --> 00:05:18,466 than others. 115 00:05:18,466 --> 00:05:21,500 So, but we'll see how, that's why I'm excited to see 116 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:23,533 how it stools this year and if you know what kind of heads 117 00:05:23,533 --> 00:05:25,200 and what kind of seed production we get. 118 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,300 - Yep, if we could really get it to yield 119 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:28,633 it would be an amazing breakthrough 120 00:05:28,633 --> 00:05:32,566 because all our crops that we eat now, corn, rice, wheat, 121 00:05:32,566 --> 00:05:33,866 all of them are annual crops 122 00:05:33,866 --> 00:05:37,666 and it requires all this disturbance 123 00:05:37,666 --> 00:05:40,500 So when, if we get there, could make it in the future. 124 00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:42,100 - Sounds good, right? - Yep. 125 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:44,166 But it's still at its heart 126 00:05:44,166 --> 00:05:46,266 is kind of like grass seed production 127 00:05:46,266 --> 00:05:49,000 and so with grass seed production, you usually have one 128 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,100 or two really good seed years 129 00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:52,700 and then it's grass after that. 130 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:57,333 So it's gonna have to be some hybrid forage/grain 131 00:05:58,833 --> 00:06:00,433 market for some time I think. 132 00:06:00,433 --> 00:06:03,133 - I mean there's a fundamental physiological 133 00:06:03,133 --> 00:06:06,633 limitation there when a plant only makes so much sugar 134 00:06:06,633 --> 00:06:09,166 and it either chooses to put it in its roots and survive 135 00:06:09,166 --> 00:06:13,300 or make seed with it and you kind of can't do a lot of both. 136 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:14,300 Yeah, right? 137 00:06:15,833 --> 00:06:17,433 - How many years do you usually get 138 00:06:17,433 --> 00:06:19,133 out of one seeding of the Kernza? 139 00:06:20,233 --> 00:06:21,766 - So, that's a good question 140 00:06:21,766 --> 00:06:25,433 because it can actually live a long time, 141 00:06:25,433 --> 00:06:29,700 especially if our plots are an example. 142 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:31,600 It's not a very uniform plant type. 143 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,700 Like we've got everything that looks like grass 144 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:35,166 to actual plants that looked like 145 00:06:35,166 --> 00:06:36,533 they had little wheat seeds on them. 146 00:06:36,533 --> 00:06:38,233 And so I don't know how uniform it is, 147 00:06:38,233 --> 00:06:40,033 it's like more like a population, 148 00:06:40,033 --> 00:06:44,133 but I think that grass is gonna be there for a long time. 149 00:06:44,133 --> 00:06:46,000 I'm, but so that grain harvest phase, 150 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,000 I don't quite know how that's going to go, 151 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,066 but if it, I used to be in grass seed production 152 00:06:51,066 --> 00:06:53,266 and so we usually hope to get, you know, 153 00:06:53,266 --> 00:06:54,600 two good seed production years 154 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,100 and after that it gets so sortbound 155 00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:58,333 that it just doesn't wanna throw heads. 156 00:06:58,333 --> 00:07:00,000 Then there's different ways of trying to stimulate 157 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,533 that head development, but, so yeah, 158 00:07:03,533 --> 00:07:05,933 so I guess the answer is I really don't know. 159 00:07:05,933 --> 00:07:08,400 I'm just trying to, you know, 160 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:09,233 deduce from what I know. 161 00:07:09,233 --> 00:07:11,233 - There's some kind of physical disturbance, 162 00:07:11,233 --> 00:07:12,900 like light tillage, sort of one of those? 163 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:13,833 - That means? Yeah. 164 00:07:13,833 --> 00:07:16,733 Rough stand renovation can do that. 165 00:07:16,733 --> 00:07:18,366 - I wonder if that diversity 166 00:07:18,366 --> 00:07:21,833 and form is an advantage in some sense in the long term. 167 00:07:21,833 --> 00:07:23,700 - Maybe. Yeah, maybe. - Survival or... 168 00:07:23,700 --> 00:07:24,566 - Yeah. 169 00:07:24,566 --> 00:07:27,666 - [Tim] John, tell us about your rotations on your farm. 170 00:07:27,666 --> 00:07:28,866 What crops do you grow 171 00:07:28,866 --> 00:07:30,833 and what kind of rotations do you have 172 00:07:30,833 --> 00:07:32,733 across your different fields? 173 00:07:32,733 --> 00:07:35,466 - So I grow a lot of lentils. 174 00:07:35,466 --> 00:07:37,833 Every couple years I do some chickpeas, 175 00:07:37,833 --> 00:07:41,433 barley, spring wheat, durum. 176 00:07:41,433 --> 00:07:43,233 I've tried, I'm not much of an oil seed farmer. 177 00:07:43,233 --> 00:07:46,833 I've tried flax mustard but never really have a good year. 178 00:07:46,833 --> 00:07:49,766 And kind of the rotation then I'll do like an eight 179 00:07:49,766 --> 00:07:52,300 to 12 way cover crop mix in like a fallow year. 180 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:53,833 And usually that I'm doing 181 00:07:53,833 --> 00:07:56,366 about a quarter of the acres in that. 182 00:07:56,366 --> 00:07:58,966 And I really just kind of really keep an eye out 183 00:07:58,966 --> 00:07:59,866 when I'm out working 184 00:07:59,866 --> 00:08:01,600 and see like, all right, here's an issue I'm seeing 185 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,033 in the field, like a cover crop would help with this 186 00:08:05,033 --> 00:08:07,166 or this crop might help it kind of control. 187 00:08:07,166 --> 00:08:09,233 So it's not a set rotation. 188 00:08:09,233 --> 00:08:10,700 Like a lot of people get into a five 189 00:08:10,700 --> 00:08:11,866 or seven year set rotation, 190 00:08:11,866 --> 00:08:14,566 which I think is really a good thing management wise. 191 00:08:14,566 --> 00:08:17,066 But I've been kind of jumping all over while staying 192 00:08:17,066 --> 00:08:20,300 in the same, you know, plant back restrictions with lentils 193 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:22,866 and things and then planting out the next year's crops, 194 00:08:22,866 --> 00:08:24,600 what'll kind of be a good rotation there. 195 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,266 So it jumps around a lot, 196 00:08:26,266 --> 00:08:28,766 but it's kind of a management nightmare to kind of pick, 197 00:08:28,766 --> 00:08:32,033 but in some chaos it works out. 198 00:08:32,033 --> 00:08:34,433 - [Tim] Yep, so on the screen right now we have a picture 199 00:08:34,433 --> 00:08:35,833 of an earthworm on there. 200 00:08:35,833 --> 00:08:38,033 So do you want to tell us about how, well, 201 00:08:38,033 --> 00:08:39,600 what the earthworms doing here 202 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,700 and then maybe about how you're thinking about 203 00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:43,233 managing your soil health? 204 00:08:43,233 --> 00:08:45,533 - Yeah, so this was a cover crop mix. 205 00:08:45,533 --> 00:08:48,500 It was like a, it was a really diverse mix 206 00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:50,700 and it did really well 207 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:54,366 and, like, I had never seen an earthworm on the farm 208 00:08:54,366 --> 00:08:57,333 and I was kind of digging around to see the organic matter 209 00:08:57,333 --> 00:08:59,933 that had broke down and I found earthworms 210 00:08:59,933 --> 00:09:00,966 all over the place 211 00:09:00,966 --> 00:09:03,200 and it was just really interesting to see. 212 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,333 So I kind of thought I was on the right path. 213 00:09:05,333 --> 00:09:08,700 And then that crop, that one we, 214 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:10,733 I think in one year we about raised 215 00:09:10,733 --> 00:09:13,966 that organic matter percentage just under 1% 216 00:09:13,966 --> 00:09:16,300 and we didn't graze it or anything like we usually do. 217 00:09:16,300 --> 00:09:18,466 And we left everything stand 218 00:09:18,466 --> 00:09:19,800 and then worked it in with a disc. 219 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,533 And this is the mix kinda in the end in the fall 220 00:09:24,533 --> 00:09:25,766 when it was kind of breaking down. 221 00:09:25,766 --> 00:09:27,233 And the reason we didn't graze this one 222 00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:29,566 was there was no fences or water available. 223 00:09:29,566 --> 00:09:31,433 So I just kind of thought, well, we'll see what happens. 224 00:09:31,433 --> 00:09:34,633 And it really helped with the water holding capacity 225 00:09:34,633 --> 00:09:37,766 and just the pores in the soil. 226 00:09:37,766 --> 00:09:39,766 So it was really fun to see that happen. 227 00:09:39,766 --> 00:09:41,333 And so now I try 228 00:09:41,333 --> 00:09:44,466 and graze off a little less maybe than I usually did. 229 00:09:44,466 --> 00:09:47,233 We try and hit about 30% left standing, 230 00:09:47,233 --> 00:09:50,266 but we, you know, sometimes you go a little over that 231 00:09:50,266 --> 00:09:52,500 and especially if the cows need feeds, so. 232 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:55,000 - I think I see some warm season crops 233 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:55,966 in that cover crop mix. 234 00:09:55,966 --> 00:09:57,033 When would you, when's the latest 235 00:09:57,033 --> 00:09:58,200 you'd seed something like that? 236 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,600 - I've seeded middle of June 237 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,933 and even, I think I seeded one of the first years 238 00:10:03,933 --> 00:10:06,600 was the weekend before the 4th of July 239 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,333 and we just got a really timely rain and it did really well. 240 00:10:09,333 --> 00:10:14,000 But like the millet and the red clover, 241 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,666 and, well, mainly the red clover like that 242 00:10:15,666 --> 00:10:16,866 won't germinate for a while. 243 00:10:16,866 --> 00:10:19,666 So a lot of times I think that gets choked out. 244 00:10:19,666 --> 00:10:22,133 But I like to have 'em in like first week of June, 245 00:10:22,133 --> 00:10:23,500 if not before. 246 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:24,400 - Yep. 247 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,666 - So you're up by Tiber, which is Ty Reservoir. 248 00:10:27,666 --> 00:10:29,966 And when I go across the state I ask people 249 00:10:29,966 --> 00:10:32,000 a lot about what cover crops they're using 250 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,200 and maybe what forage crops that they have in there. 251 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,966 And you actually see big differences in the cooler highs 252 00:10:36,966 --> 00:10:40,500 Southwest Valleys, you don't see very little C 4 grass, 253 00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:42,833 and Perry has failed a number of times 254 00:10:42,833 --> 00:10:46,166 at growing C 4 grasses in the cooler areas of Montana. 255 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,066 So what do you use? 256 00:10:49,066 --> 00:10:52,166 - I really look at, you know, some of my soil tests 257 00:10:52,166 --> 00:10:54,200 and see what my carbon and nitrogen ratios are 258 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,100 and what maybe some of the needs are, 259 00:10:56,100 --> 00:10:58,866 and then using a smart mix calculator online 260 00:10:58,866 --> 00:11:00,733 and kind of building up a mix that'll work. 261 00:11:00,733 --> 00:11:04,366 But I really like sorghum stand grass, sunflowers, 262 00:11:04,366 --> 00:11:09,100 red clover, turnip radish, and you know, grazing corn. 263 00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:11,366 I've thrown pumpkins in the mix before 264 00:11:11,366 --> 00:11:12,833 and try weird things, 265 00:11:13,966 --> 00:11:15,500 and it's just, it's really fun to watch 266 00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:17,433 which ones are gonna grow and which ones don't. 267 00:11:17,433 --> 00:11:19,600 - [Perry] You're not exactly in a high rainfall area? 268 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,466 - [John] No, I think, yeah, 11 inches rainier, 269 00:11:22,466 --> 00:11:23,300 it's about as dry... 270 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:24,700 - Are you dry land? - Yep. 271 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:26,933 - This is all dry land. - Yeah, all dry land. Yep. 272 00:11:26,933 --> 00:11:29,266 So you really depend on the rain. 273 00:11:29,266 --> 00:11:31,266 The last four years we've been in kind of a drought 274 00:11:31,266 --> 00:11:34,400 and the cover crops really didn't even germinate 275 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,633 until the fall when we got a rain at harvest. 276 00:11:36,633 --> 00:11:41,500 So it was kind of a wasted, wasted seed there, 277 00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:43,666 but you gotta try for it, I guess. 278 00:11:43,666 --> 00:11:45,433 - You mentioned chickpeas is one of your crops. 279 00:11:45,433 --> 00:11:47,166 I'd like to hear something about that 280 00:11:47,166 --> 00:11:48,100 before the evening's out 281 00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:50,433 because that's a tough one to do organically, so. 282 00:11:50,433 --> 00:11:52,833 - Yeah, they're really tricky. 283 00:11:52,833 --> 00:11:55,766 I put flax with them that help with the Ascochyta 284 00:11:55,766 --> 00:11:57,800 and then just some heavier seed rates. 285 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,466 But I don't think I go quite as heavy 286 00:11:59,466 --> 00:12:01,966 as some of the conventional guys might be doing. 287 00:12:01,966 --> 00:12:05,433 I go about 120 pounds an acre and they seem to do all right. 288 00:12:05,433 --> 00:12:07,800 They do a little bit better with that flax 289 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:09,300 as helping it compete, 290 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:12,833 but you know, the harvesting is the main issue they get, 291 00:12:12,833 --> 00:12:16,033 you know, they're wet, I've harvested 'em after snow. 292 00:12:16,033 --> 00:12:19,800 So we try and swath them down and go through, 293 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,600 but I'm kind of tempted to use that stripper header 294 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:23,600 if they're tall enough 295 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,133 'cause but that's pretty short. 296 00:12:26,133 --> 00:12:28,433 - Yeah. Yeah, yeah, interesting. 297 00:12:28,433 --> 00:12:31,800 Alright, so we have a question Abi, 298 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,133 and this is a follow up about cardboard for moths. 299 00:12:35,133 --> 00:12:37,966 So we talked last week in the show a little bit about using 300 00:12:37,966 --> 00:12:39,633 cardboard around our fruit trees 301 00:12:39,633 --> 00:12:42,233 to catch the coddling moths as they go up. 302 00:12:42,233 --> 00:12:44,933 And this color was wondering what side of the tree 303 00:12:44,933 --> 00:12:48,000 or where on the tree that cardboard should be placed? 304 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,066 - Yeah, so the best spot, so what you're doing with these, 305 00:12:51,066 --> 00:12:52,300 with this cardboard 306 00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:54,800 and when you do it, it's about late May, 307 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,666 kind of the end of May, 308 00:12:56,666 --> 00:12:59,066 that's when they're traveling up 309 00:12:59,066 --> 00:13:01,633 to find a spot to kind of pupate. 310 00:13:01,633 --> 00:13:03,866 And so what you're trying to mimic, 311 00:13:03,866 --> 00:13:05,233 because they'll find cracks 312 00:13:05,233 --> 00:13:09,133 and crevices inside the trunk of the tree to nest. 313 00:13:09,133 --> 00:13:12,166 You want the corrugated part on the inside 314 00:13:12,166 --> 00:13:14,733 and they're gonna kind of find a spot in there 315 00:13:14,733 --> 00:13:16,100 in those kind of ridges 316 00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:18,133 and they're gonna hunker down on there. 317 00:13:18,133 --> 00:13:20,500 And so putting two bands of that, 318 00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:22,466 especially if you have larger trees 319 00:13:22,466 --> 00:13:24,933 that are harder to kind of manage 320 00:13:24,933 --> 00:13:27,033 with insecticide applications, 321 00:13:27,033 --> 00:13:29,033 this can be a weight that you can really reduce 322 00:13:29,033 --> 00:13:30,766 your populations over time. 323 00:13:30,766 --> 00:13:33,033 And then you can do another one later in the summer, 324 00:13:33,033 --> 00:13:37,466 another set of cardboard to catch the next set. 325 00:13:37,466 --> 00:13:38,800 - So the idea is this is a trap. 326 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,800 - Yeah, just a trap it off. Yeah, reducing the population. 327 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:42,733 - When would you put it on? When would you take it off? 328 00:13:42,733 --> 00:13:44,133 - Usually at the end of May 329 00:13:44,133 --> 00:13:46,833 and then whenever you kind of see the movement 330 00:13:46,833 --> 00:13:48,800 when it fills up, you can replace that 331 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,666 and swap it off again in July or so. 332 00:13:51,666 --> 00:13:53,833 - Because codling moths become a pest on apples 333 00:13:53,833 --> 00:13:54,866 when the fruit is formed 334 00:13:54,866 --> 00:13:56,100 and they're gonna crawl up on there and... 335 00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:56,933 - Absolutely. 336 00:13:56,933 --> 00:13:58,933 - Eat their way in and lay their eggs. 337 00:13:58,933 --> 00:14:03,366 - And no one likes to see those kind of, yeah, wormy apples. 338 00:14:03,366 --> 00:14:06,566 - Okay, thank you Abby. 339 00:14:06,566 --> 00:14:08,033 Hope we get some good apples this year 340 00:14:08,033 --> 00:14:09,266 in the Gallatin Valley. 341 00:14:09,266 --> 00:14:13,566 So this the whole panel can maybe put their input on. 342 00:14:13,566 --> 00:14:15,400 So we have a caller from Shepherd 343 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,933 who is wondering if commercial fertilizer 344 00:14:17,933 --> 00:14:20,066 is better than natural for fertilizer 345 00:14:20,066 --> 00:14:23,466 i.e. cow or sheep manure. 346 00:14:23,466 --> 00:14:26,666 And if so, what kind of commercial fertilizer 347 00:14:26,666 --> 00:14:29,666 or type of manure should we be putting on our gardens? 348 00:14:32,966 --> 00:14:35,666 - That's a big question. - That is a big question. 349 00:14:35,666 --> 00:14:37,566 - Commercial fertilizers generally speaking 350 00:14:37,566 --> 00:14:40,200 are immediately available, 351 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,466 and inexpensive and... 352 00:14:43,466 --> 00:14:45,666 - They may be more uniform in their nutrient. 353 00:14:45,666 --> 00:14:48,000 - They're very uniform. Yeah. 354 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,933 You know, and nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, 355 00:14:49,933 --> 00:14:52,600 all the micronutrients, they've all got a complex story. 356 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,200 We could have an entire semester one class about this. 357 00:14:56,233 --> 00:14:59,466 - So when we think about that, so for example, 358 00:15:00,433 --> 00:15:03,333 you know, some manure might have more potassium, 359 00:15:03,333 --> 00:15:06,166 more phosphorus and have less nitrogen in them, 360 00:15:06,166 --> 00:15:07,766 or compost out of our garden 361 00:15:07,766 --> 00:15:09,800 tends to have way more potassium, 362 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,333 way more phosphorous but not have so much nitrogen. 363 00:15:13,333 --> 00:15:16,400 If I wanted to supplement my nitrogen a little bit, 364 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,633 'cause that's my biggest nutrient limitation, 365 00:15:18,633 --> 00:15:23,266 my home garden, is chicken manure, horse 366 00:15:23,266 --> 00:15:26,300 Is there one that provides more nitrogen in these contexts? 367 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:28,100 - I think they're all pretty balanced 368 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:29,866 nitrogen versus phosphorus ratio. 369 00:15:29,866 --> 00:15:31,166 So that's the challenge is, 370 00:15:31,166 --> 00:15:32,533 is getting enough nitrogen on 371 00:15:32,533 --> 00:15:35,633 without overloading the phosphorus with a manure source. 372 00:15:35,633 --> 00:15:39,866 So, and I think it's important to have a compost of manure 373 00:15:39,866 --> 00:15:43,566 if you wanna get some timely nutrient release. 374 00:15:43,566 --> 00:15:45,466 Otherwise it's gonna do all that bid on, you know, 375 00:15:45,466 --> 00:15:46,666 while it's sitting on your land, so. 376 00:15:46,666 --> 00:15:47,500 - Yep. 377 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:49,166 And, but then you also have to be very careful 378 00:15:49,166 --> 00:15:50,866 from where your manure comes from. 379 00:15:50,866 --> 00:15:54,166 You just can't take any horse manure or cow manure 380 00:15:54,166 --> 00:15:57,033 because they may have eaten forage that was treated 381 00:15:57,033 --> 00:15:59,733 with certain herbicides, which then passes through, 382 00:15:59,733 --> 00:16:01,233 comes out into the manure 383 00:16:01,233 --> 00:16:03,300 and causes major herbicide injury in garden. 384 00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:04,900 - That's absolutely a concern. 385 00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:06,533 I would be extremely hesitant 386 00:16:06,533 --> 00:16:08,500 to use any locally sourced manure 387 00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:10,533 unless you really know where it's coming from 388 00:16:10,533 --> 00:16:12,833 and where all the feed for those animals is coming from 389 00:16:12,833 --> 00:16:15,100 and you trust that person that they know what they're doing. 390 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:16,500 - Yeah. - And if you're not sure, 391 00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:18,600 you can do a little bioassay too. 392 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,100 You can use some peas or something like that 393 00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:23,366 and implant it and see if it shows those symptoms 394 00:16:23,366 --> 00:16:24,233 of herbicide injury. 395 00:16:24,233 --> 00:16:26,766 So if you're not sure where it's coming from 396 00:16:26,766 --> 00:16:29,200 and you kind of wanna see, that could be a way to... 397 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,233 - You know, as far as products you might buy 398 00:16:31,233 --> 00:16:32,933 in a garden center that come in a bag, 399 00:16:32,933 --> 00:16:36,200 if there's any appreciable nutrient content, 400 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,700 they oftentimes will have a number 401 00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:39,866 just like a fertilizer bag. 402 00:16:39,866 --> 00:16:42,633 So I think of the common chicken manure product 403 00:16:42,633 --> 00:16:44,933 that's available that's 3, 2, 2. 404 00:16:44,933 --> 00:16:49,433 3% nitrogen, 2% phosphorus, 2% potassium, you know, 405 00:16:49,433 --> 00:16:52,533 and fertilizers come in various blends too. 406 00:16:52,533 --> 00:16:55,200 So if you want to get particular about it, 407 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,300 you should do a soil test 408 00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:58,033 and respond with the particular nutrients. 409 00:16:58,033 --> 00:17:02,066 And it would be easier to go wrong being haphazard 410 00:17:02,066 --> 00:17:03,766 with chemical fertilizers for sure. 411 00:17:03,766 --> 00:17:05,666 You could apply way too much really easily. 412 00:17:05,666 --> 00:17:08,100 - Yeah. Burn things right up. 413 00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:11,333 - I think generally speaking in moderate doses manure 414 00:17:11,333 --> 00:17:14,800 or composted (indistinct) other than the herbicide issues, 415 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,366 you could add this much or this much 416 00:17:16,366 --> 00:17:18,700 and you're not gonna, you might waste a little bit of money, 417 00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:20,566 but you're not gonna hurt anything probably. 418 00:17:20,566 --> 00:17:22,933 But nitrogen is often the limiting factor. 419 00:17:22,933 --> 00:17:23,933 - [Tim] Yeah. 420 00:17:23,933 --> 00:17:27,500 - I've looked at spreading manure from feedlot 421 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:29,133 and then chicken litter. 422 00:17:29,133 --> 00:17:31,233 And that's been my hesitation is just 423 00:17:31,233 --> 00:17:34,533 what is that animal eating that's gonna be left behind? 424 00:17:34,533 --> 00:17:37,266 So I've been taking my time on it, but... 425 00:17:37,266 --> 00:17:38,100 - [Mac] Well, on your scale, 426 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:39,366 how many truckloads would you need? 427 00:17:39,366 --> 00:17:41,700 - And I found some local places, 428 00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:44,333 but the trucking is definitely the, 429 00:17:44,333 --> 00:17:47,200 and how many tons per acre that need to go on is really, 430 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,733 you know, you'd have to pick, right, this field this year 431 00:17:49,733 --> 00:17:52,466 and move throughout and it's kind of a... 432 00:17:52,466 --> 00:17:53,966 - [Tim] But John, you were saying you were using 433 00:17:53,966 --> 00:17:55,200 some compost teas. 434 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,200 Describe that. 435 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,966 Tell us what a compost tea is 436 00:17:57,966 --> 00:18:00,033 and how you kind of go about putting this down. 437 00:18:00,033 --> 00:18:03,466 - So the stuff that I'm using is a compost 438 00:18:03,466 --> 00:18:08,666 that is sifted that comes from South Dakota Soil Works LLC. 439 00:18:08,666 --> 00:18:11,133 And basically instead of spreading 440 00:18:11,133 --> 00:18:13,866 all that large tonnage out over every acre, 441 00:18:13,866 --> 00:18:17,266 we're extracting the biology using a extractor. 442 00:18:17,266 --> 00:18:19,866 And basically we're pumping oxygen in 443 00:18:19,866 --> 00:18:22,233 to extract the biology from the compost 444 00:18:22,233 --> 00:18:26,366 and then getting a really concentrated extract out of it. 445 00:18:26,366 --> 00:18:29,666 And that is going down right in the drill in the furrow. 446 00:18:29,666 --> 00:18:32,400 And this picture of that extractor that I have, 447 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,666 and it just bubbles for about 20 minutes 448 00:18:35,666 --> 00:18:39,766 and it'll bring water in and out at the same rate. 449 00:18:39,766 --> 00:18:41,600 So you just kind of punch in, you know, 450 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,233 how you're gonna do it and then you put the pounds in 451 00:18:43,233 --> 00:18:45,600 and then I fill that blue tank in the back and go out 452 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,800 and it's a little more shelf stable, I guess, than a tea, 453 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,700 so it gives you a little bit of time to go. 454 00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:54,300 You probably have two days to get it on, 455 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:56,533 but if it sits in your tank, you have to bubble it 456 00:18:56,533 --> 00:18:58,600 'cause it still has some silt 457 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,733 and it can kind of cause, you know, little tubes to plug. 458 00:19:01,733 --> 00:19:05,166 But it's a really efficient way to do it. 459 00:19:05,166 --> 00:19:08,300 This year we're mixing, I'm doing humic 460 00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:10,233 and compost together. 461 00:19:10,233 --> 00:19:13,966 A producer up by me, Corey Hawks said it's a little easier 462 00:19:13,966 --> 00:19:15,133 to get it out on the ground, 463 00:19:15,133 --> 00:19:18,033 so he kind of told me the ratio he's using 464 00:19:18,033 --> 00:19:18,900 and so we're gonna try 465 00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:21,733 and put it down right through the air system on the drill. 466 00:19:21,733 --> 00:19:24,233 And so I think that'll be a little less labor intensive 467 00:19:24,233 --> 00:19:26,200 and less things to go wrong. 468 00:19:27,733 --> 00:19:29,166 - Interesting. Thanks. 469 00:19:29,166 --> 00:19:31,233 Perry or anyone, humic acid. 470 00:19:31,233 --> 00:19:32,833 I hear a lot about humic acid, 471 00:19:32,833 --> 00:19:36,533 but I don't really know how it fits into our, 472 00:19:36,533 --> 00:19:39,800 how we understand soil and soil biology. 473 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,700 - Soil biology is a complicated thing. 474 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:43,666 Soil organic matter is a complicated thing. 475 00:19:43,666 --> 00:19:46,766 Humic acid is supposed to be a particular fraction 476 00:19:46,766 --> 00:19:48,766 of soil organic matter. 477 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:52,266 I'm not a soil expert, right? 478 00:19:52,266 --> 00:19:53,400 This is where we need Clain Jones 479 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:54,566 or somebody on the show. 480 00:19:54,566 --> 00:19:56,300 Well, Mac, you teach some of this stuff. 481 00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:57,833 - [Mac] A little bit. - Yeah, I know. 482 00:19:57,833 --> 00:19:59,366 It is complicated stuff. 483 00:19:59,366 --> 00:20:01,100 - Humic acid isn't just one thing. 484 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,000 There's a whole bunch of different ones 485 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,066 and they're fairly stable. 486 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,166 - And the soil carbon world is actually learning that, 487 00:20:10,166 --> 00:20:13,500 you know, the way you get humic acid is not maybe 488 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:17,600 as representative as but for its function in the soil. 489 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,433 So there's a lot of exploration going on right now 490 00:20:20,433 --> 00:20:23,566 relative to soil, carbon soil, organic matter, soil biology, 491 00:20:23,566 --> 00:20:25,933 various biological additives, so. 492 00:20:25,933 --> 00:20:28,033 - Probably an important component of, you know, 493 00:20:28,033 --> 00:20:29,700 to use a colloquial term, 494 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,500 kind of the glue that holds the soil structure together. 495 00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:37,533 Not actively participating rapidly in nutrient cycling, 496 00:20:37,533 --> 00:20:40,233 but, you know, maybe creating structure 497 00:20:40,233 --> 00:20:42,066 and habitat for other organisms to do. 498 00:20:42,066 --> 00:20:43,233 - Helping to build the sponge, right? 499 00:20:43,233 --> 00:20:46,766 - Yep. Exactly. - Great. Thanks. 500 00:20:46,766 --> 00:20:48,900 Okay, so we have some call, we have some questions 501 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:51,033 that have come in for you Abi. 502 00:20:51,033 --> 00:20:54,166 We have an Anaconda caller who would like to know 503 00:20:54,166 --> 00:20:57,266 how much water should they put on their lawn, 504 00:20:57,266 --> 00:21:00,366 should it be watered all at once, once a week 505 00:21:00,366 --> 00:21:03,366 or spread out through the week? 506 00:21:03,366 --> 00:21:05,100 - Awesome. Great question. 507 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:07,200 So lawns, traditionally, 508 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,800 most of our common cool season grasses for turf grass lawns, 509 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,433 usually around this time of year in the spring 510 00:21:13,433 --> 00:21:16,333 and the fall usually require about one to one 511 00:21:16,333 --> 00:21:18,933 and a half inches of water per week. 512 00:21:18,933 --> 00:21:21,133 And the best way to water your lawn 513 00:21:21,133 --> 00:21:24,900 in terms of kind of the spread is to have 514 00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:26,833 deep but infrequent watering. 515 00:21:26,833 --> 00:21:30,500 So you wanna do it maybe twice a week, not more than that. 516 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,300 Because when you do that, you're encouraging that moisture 517 00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:34,866 to go down deeper into the soil 518 00:21:34,866 --> 00:21:36,533 and that encourages the root system 519 00:21:36,533 --> 00:21:38,566 of the turf grass to go down deeper. 520 00:21:38,566 --> 00:21:41,633 It makes it more resilient to drought and things like that. 521 00:21:41,633 --> 00:21:43,633 So in springtime you're aiming for one to one 522 00:21:43,633 --> 00:21:46,600 and a half inches and that's including precipitation. 523 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,833 So keep track of the precipitation. 524 00:21:48,833 --> 00:21:51,200 And then in those hot summer months, 525 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,666 that's when you might need to up it to about two inches. 526 00:21:53,666 --> 00:21:58,066 But one inch around now, once or twice a week usually. 527 00:21:58,066 --> 00:21:59,666 - So I don't know about Anaconda, 528 00:21:59,666 --> 00:22:01,900 but I've been reading you in the newspaper, Bozeman, 529 00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:03,000 you know, but our closed basin 530 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,800 and our looming water shortage 531 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,600 and potential watering restrictions on grass, 532 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,933 how is that going to factor into this? 533 00:22:09,933 --> 00:22:11,866 - It can, so that is a good point. 534 00:22:11,866 --> 00:22:14,966 A lot of our turf grasses that we use in lawns, 535 00:22:14,966 --> 00:22:17,366 some of them are more kind of water intensive 536 00:22:17,366 --> 00:22:20,200 than others in Kentucky bluegrass is an example of that. 537 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,433 It needs almost double the amount of water 538 00:22:22,433 --> 00:22:24,033 as some of these other turf grasses 539 00:22:24,033 --> 00:22:27,033 and fine fescues, like creeping red fescue 540 00:22:27,033 --> 00:22:30,000 and chewing fescues require less than that. 541 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,366 So if people are concerned about that, 542 00:22:32,366 --> 00:22:34,766 I'm thinking like if people wanna transition 543 00:22:34,766 --> 00:22:37,233 their lawn over to something that's going to require 544 00:22:37,233 --> 00:22:39,966 less water, that's an important consideration. 545 00:22:39,966 --> 00:22:42,733 Other things to do would be reducing your overall 546 00:22:42,733 --> 00:22:45,333 area of lawn that you have. 547 00:22:45,333 --> 00:22:47,366 But that can be a major consideration 548 00:22:47,366 --> 00:22:49,233 because there is, you know, 549 00:22:49,233 --> 00:22:52,633 we are going to be restricted in water in general. 550 00:22:52,633 --> 00:22:56,633 We're not able to keep up with just the population 551 00:22:56,633 --> 00:22:58,500 and being able to meet those water needs. 552 00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:01,833 So we need to think creatively in terms of landscaping 553 00:23:01,833 --> 00:23:06,766 that doesn't require very much additional irrigation. 554 00:23:06,766 --> 00:23:08,566 - I'm gonna fess up to being a terrible steward 555 00:23:08,566 --> 00:23:11,133 of my lawn, but... - Me too. 556 00:23:11,133 --> 00:23:11,966 - Me too. 557 00:23:11,966 --> 00:23:14,166 - I don't usually water it. - Yeah, me neither. 558 00:23:14,166 --> 00:23:16,466 - And it looks presentable. 559 00:23:16,466 --> 00:23:20,966 I mow it, I have fertilized it not three times a year, 560 00:23:20,966 --> 00:23:24,966 but it usually doesn't seem to me in here in Bozeman 561 00:23:24,966 --> 00:23:25,800 and cooler climate. 562 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,800 And we have fairly heavy soils, you know, 563 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,533 usually well into June, 564 00:23:29,533 --> 00:23:31,800 if not July, before it starts to slow down. 565 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,966 And I welcome not mowing. 566 00:23:33,966 --> 00:23:35,166 - Exactly. - For a while. 567 00:23:35,166 --> 00:23:37,733 - And then it, and and then it turns brown 568 00:23:37,733 --> 00:23:38,966 and it doesn't die. - No. 569 00:23:38,966 --> 00:23:43,066 - It's just, you know, and then it comes back in the fall. 570 00:23:43,066 --> 00:23:45,233 It doesn't require water 571 00:23:45,233 --> 00:23:47,700 unless you want it to be green and keep mowing, right? 572 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:49,900 - Yeah. - And then you know, 573 00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:50,900 if you want it to be healthy, 574 00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:51,966 you should probably fertilize it too. 575 00:23:51,966 --> 00:23:53,533 And that's a... - Yeah. 576 00:23:53,533 --> 00:23:55,833 Taking care of your lawn, it's a lot of work. 577 00:23:55,833 --> 00:23:58,233 - Keep the lawnmowers busy. - Yeah, absolutely. 578 00:23:58,233 --> 00:24:00,133 - John, we have a question that came in 579 00:24:01,133 --> 00:24:03,566 and they were wondering about 580 00:24:03,566 --> 00:24:07,033 what do you, do you do regenerative agriculture, 581 00:24:07,033 --> 00:24:09,366 what do you think of regenerative agriculture? 582 00:24:09,366 --> 00:24:12,500 And are you involved in these regenerative agriculture 583 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:14,700 markets that are out there? 584 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:17,400 - Yes, so I do, I think, you know, 585 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,600 regenerative agriculture is anything that is making, 586 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,733 focusing on soil health 587 00:24:21,733 --> 00:24:24,933 and practices that are building soil health. 588 00:24:24,933 --> 00:24:28,933 I do have a regenerative organic certification 589 00:24:28,933 --> 00:24:31,800 that I have had for two years now 590 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,200 and the only contract I've had with it is 591 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,600 for Patagonia provisions. 592 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,933 We're doing a pasta line this year, 593 00:24:37,933 --> 00:24:40,066 so I'm gonna be drawing some durum from them. 594 00:24:40,066 --> 00:24:44,233 And it's usually a couple percent 595 00:24:44,233 --> 00:24:47,200 on top of an organic price is kind of what their, 596 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,900 the premium should be for that. 597 00:24:50,166 --> 00:24:51,800 I have mixed feelings about it, you know, 598 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,566 not being a USDA label 599 00:24:53,566 --> 00:24:57,133 and you know, I think that that is, 600 00:24:57,133 --> 00:25:00,566 maybe the customer doesn't trust in that label as much. 601 00:25:00,566 --> 00:25:01,900 - Are there particular practices 602 00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:04,000 that they require of you to earn that? 603 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,800 - Yeah, the one that I have has, 604 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,066 like animal welfare is a big one. 605 00:25:08,066 --> 00:25:09,800 Employee wellbeing 606 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,700 and then, you know, minimal, minimal tillage. 607 00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:15,366 So I usually, I do one pre-pass tillage 608 00:25:15,366 --> 00:25:17,766 with a Kelly Diamond. 609 00:25:17,766 --> 00:25:19,666 They call it a harrow, but it's more of a disc, 610 00:25:19,666 --> 00:25:23,100 but, so I think we have a video of that, 611 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:26,666 but, so it's just really low disturbance, low tillage 612 00:25:26,666 --> 00:25:28,800 and there's, yeah, here's that. 613 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,833 It goes, it's quite an interesting piece of equipment 614 00:25:31,833 --> 00:25:36,133 and in dry it'll actually pull weeds out 615 00:25:36,133 --> 00:25:40,466 if it's to try to get the discs into the ground, but... 616 00:25:40,466 --> 00:25:42,133 And really low maintenance machine 617 00:25:42,133 --> 00:25:45,500 and really a time effective piece of equipment. 618 00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,666 But, so that's one of the lower, 619 00:25:47,666 --> 00:25:51,733 like things you have to do is low tillage and cover cropping 620 00:25:51,733 --> 00:25:54,033 and there's quite a few things that they want you 621 00:25:54,033 --> 00:25:55,700 to check off, but... 622 00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:56,533 So it was kind of fun 623 00:25:56,533 --> 00:25:58,066 and it was neat learning all that. 624 00:25:58,066 --> 00:25:59,666 But I don't know, 625 00:25:59,666 --> 00:26:03,200 I'd like there to be USDA label for something like that 626 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,333 or just, you know, help bring organic, 627 00:26:05,333 --> 00:26:08,433 more focused on these regenerative practices. 628 00:26:08,433 --> 00:26:10,966 - And maybe you and Perry, you guys could speak to that. 629 00:26:10,966 --> 00:26:14,566 So, or the USDA organic label is defined 630 00:26:14,566 --> 00:26:17,000 by a set of practices inspections that go, 631 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,366 how does that differ from these regenerative certifications 632 00:26:20,366 --> 00:26:22,433 that we have out there? 633 00:26:22,433 --> 00:26:25,500 - So regenerative still requires a certification 634 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:27,700 of some sort, so you're still dealing with an inspector, 635 00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:31,066 but the flexibility seems quite significant 636 00:26:31,066 --> 00:26:33,266 with regenerative ag compared to organic. 637 00:26:33,266 --> 00:26:36,766 It's not such a rigid set of rules that you operate with 638 00:26:36,766 --> 00:26:39,200 and it does consider your particular context 639 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,533 and your farm, you know, particular management challenges 640 00:26:42,533 --> 00:26:44,700 that you have on your particular farm. 641 00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:45,866 Those, you know, here you're allowed 642 00:26:45,866 --> 00:26:48,633 to address those in ways that you might not be allowed 643 00:26:48,633 --> 00:26:49,533 to in an organic. 644 00:26:49,533 --> 00:26:51,066 But yours is more complicated 645 00:26:51,066 --> 00:26:52,066 'cause you're dealing with both, right? 646 00:26:52,066 --> 00:26:54,700 This is over top of the organic certification. 647 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:55,533 - Yeah. 648 00:26:55,533 --> 00:26:57,866 So to even to get considered for this, 649 00:26:57,866 --> 00:27:01,000 you have to have the USDA organic certification 650 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,200 and then that's kind of where it all starts. 651 00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:04,933 And it's different, 652 00:27:04,933 --> 00:27:06,000 there's no real time, you know, 653 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,166 you don't have to be doing it for the 36 months 654 00:27:08,166 --> 00:27:10,066 like you would on the organic. 655 00:27:10,066 --> 00:27:12,833 So I think they're still kind of learning what they want, 656 00:27:12,833 --> 00:27:15,266 but the reason I chose, there's other certifiers out there 657 00:27:15,266 --> 00:27:17,733 that'll certify convention ground is regenerative too. 658 00:27:17,733 --> 00:27:19,500 So it's kind of interesting 659 00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:22,166 to watch all these things kinda shape up 660 00:27:22,166 --> 00:27:22,966 and see where they're gonna go. 661 00:27:22,966 --> 00:27:23,900 - Yeah, it's separate streams 662 00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:26,100 and some of the farmers I've talked about 663 00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:27,800 or talked with on the conventional side, 664 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,433 they don't really seem that excited about the premiums 665 00:27:30,433 --> 00:27:33,600 so much as learning more about their system 666 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,400 and how to be more self-reliant with their own soil 667 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,066 and to reduce costs 668 00:27:38,066 --> 00:27:40,200 and be more profitable that way. 669 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,466 - And that's the, you know, the interesting thing I think 670 00:27:42,466 --> 00:27:44,266 is that, you know, organic producers 671 00:27:44,266 --> 00:27:47,533 and these practices can be used on either, you know, 672 00:27:47,533 --> 00:27:50,033 operation and they save you a lot of money 673 00:27:50,033 --> 00:27:52,800 and you know, once you start learning the benefits 674 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,433 of all these things and what they're actually doing, 675 00:27:54,433 --> 00:27:56,666 it's, you know, they're a lot more beneficial 676 00:27:56,666 --> 00:27:59,000 than just like choking out weeds, you know. 677 00:27:59,966 --> 00:28:02,333 - Okay, Mac, I got a question for you. 678 00:28:02,333 --> 00:28:06,866 The caller from Fort Benton is wondering if using ducks 679 00:28:06,866 --> 00:28:10,666 or even a fox, I don't know what, 680 00:28:10,666 --> 00:28:15,233 it can be an alternative to control snails and grasshoppers. 681 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,900 - I think ducks would probably eat snails 682 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:21,833 and grasshoppers. 683 00:28:21,833 --> 00:28:24,966 Ducks might also eat your baby cabbage plants. 684 00:28:24,966 --> 00:28:28,400 I've heard of people who can, I'm assuming this is a garden. 685 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,000 - [Tim] Yeah, probably. - Yeah. 686 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,966 I'm not aware of folks deploying ducks intentionally 687 00:28:36,966 --> 00:28:38,566 for insect management. 688 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,533 - In Asian rice they do. 689 00:28:41,533 --> 00:28:44,600 But it's in rice paddies where the ducks can eat 690 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,433 some of the insects 691 00:28:45,433 --> 00:28:48,433 but probably the ducks don't eat as much of your garden. 692 00:28:48,433 --> 00:28:49,966 - Yeah, chickens, in my experience, 693 00:28:49,966 --> 00:28:51,466 when the chickens have gotten into the garden, 694 00:28:51,466 --> 00:28:55,233 it has not gone well with regards to the vegetables 695 00:28:55,233 --> 00:28:57,533 or the tomatoes anyways. 696 00:28:57,533 --> 00:28:59,533 Chickens like tomatoes. - Yep. 697 00:28:59,533 --> 00:29:01,033 Okay. We have a follow up question. 698 00:29:01,033 --> 00:29:04,833 Caller from Brady was wondering if you work manure 699 00:29:04,833 --> 00:29:07,400 into the soil, lay it on the soil 700 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,866 or leave it or on top? 701 00:29:08,866 --> 00:29:12,766 They're concerned that there will be soil loss 702 00:29:12,766 --> 00:29:14,233 if they turn it under. 703 00:29:14,233 --> 00:29:15,066 What should they do? 704 00:29:15,066 --> 00:29:17,600 And I'm not, they're calling from Brady, 705 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,600 so they could be dry land wheat, they could be an irrigated, 706 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,433 we don't really have much in there 707 00:29:24,433 --> 00:29:26,566 but John, what do you do with manure 708 00:29:26,566 --> 00:29:28,700 or inorganic situations? 709 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:31,166 Do we try to work manure in? Do we... 710 00:29:31,166 --> 00:29:31,966 - I would. 711 00:29:31,966 --> 00:29:34,033 If I was planning to do it, I would top dress it 712 00:29:34,033 --> 00:29:37,533 and then I would work it in just to help beat up 713 00:29:37,533 --> 00:29:39,200 how everything would break down. 714 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,300 But you could leave it on top and let break down slowly. 715 00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:43,800 Just might take a little more time. 716 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,466 - I think you'd lose at least half your nitrogen 717 00:29:46,466 --> 00:29:47,566 if you don't work it in. 718 00:29:47,566 --> 00:29:49,133 - So if you didn't work it in 719 00:29:49,133 --> 00:29:52,600 basically that nitrogen that's in there becomes, 720 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,466 goes out into the atmosphere, blows away? 721 00:29:55,466 --> 00:29:56,300 Is that what... 722 00:29:56,300 --> 00:29:57,966 - You're in a pretty windy place too. 723 00:29:57,966 --> 00:30:00,000 The manure itself blow away if it's not... 724 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,200 (all laughing) 725 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,033 - It might. 726 00:30:02,033 --> 00:30:04,066 - And mind you, that would be true of urea 727 00:30:04,066 --> 00:30:05,700 as well too, right? 728 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:06,866 Any fertilizer source 729 00:30:06,866 --> 00:30:09,866 where most of the nitrogen is an ammonium form, 730 00:30:09,866 --> 00:30:14,400 especially on our higher pH soils if it's on the surface 731 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,933 and doesn't get a lot of water all at once. 732 00:30:16,933 --> 00:30:20,133 It's likely to volatilize and blow away 733 00:30:20,133 --> 00:30:22,033 and come down on somebody else's farm. 734 00:30:23,266 --> 00:30:25,233 - Yeah, we even have to watch when we do tillage 735 00:30:25,233 --> 00:30:27,033 with that wind to, 736 00:30:27,033 --> 00:30:28,733 some days you just can't get anything done 737 00:30:28,733 --> 00:30:30,733 'cause all your topsoil would be gone, so. 738 00:30:30,733 --> 00:30:33,600 - Yeah. Okay. 739 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,533 Abi maybe a question from you caller from Amanda Kanda 740 00:30:36,533 --> 00:30:39,233 has a female dog that urinates on the lawn 741 00:30:39,233 --> 00:30:42,333 and it probably leaves dead spots 742 00:30:42,333 --> 00:30:46,600 or highly fertilized spots in the lawn at least sometimes. 743 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,300 What can they do to keep the grass alive? 744 00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:51,233 - That's a really tough question. 745 00:30:51,233 --> 00:30:53,333 I mean, there are few strategies just 746 00:30:53,333 --> 00:30:57,233 because just the high nitrogen content of the urine 747 00:30:57,233 --> 00:30:59,800 can turn those grassy patches into like 748 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,700 the yellowish brown sections. 749 00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:05,100 But a few strategies to reduce that could be to make sure 750 00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:07,833 that your dog, like if you have sections of your landscape 751 00:31:07,833 --> 00:31:10,066 to make sure that she's not going 752 00:31:10,066 --> 00:31:12,600 to the same spot over and over again. 753 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,000 But other than diluting, so once they urinate, 754 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,033 watering your lawn 755 00:31:17,033 --> 00:31:20,500 and diluting that can help kind of reduce how much, 756 00:31:21,466 --> 00:31:23,966 you know, browning occurs of your lawn. 757 00:31:23,966 --> 00:31:27,200 But there aren't too many great strategies outside of, 758 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,000 because it's gonna keep happening 759 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,700 as they're gonna keep urinating on the lawn. 760 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:33,000 - And so those dead spots are occurring 761 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,933 because basically there's the ni... 762 00:31:34,933 --> 00:31:36,666 - You're burning them. - It's burning it. 763 00:31:36,666 --> 00:31:39,033 If it's burning the roots, it's burning everything 764 00:31:39,033 --> 00:31:40,466 with that high nitrogen. 765 00:31:40,466 --> 00:31:42,200 - And diluting it with some water. 766 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,066 Like if you see the spot you can just take a little hose out 767 00:31:45,066 --> 00:31:46,066 and just water it down. 768 00:31:46,066 --> 00:31:49,166 It will reduce that potentially 769 00:31:49,166 --> 00:31:50,966 and kind of limit the amount. 770 00:31:50,966 --> 00:31:52,433 But that's a difficult, 771 00:31:52,433 --> 00:31:55,100 there isn't a nice solution for that. 772 00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,033 - So the best, I have dogs, right? 773 00:31:57,033 --> 00:31:59,500 And so every spring I've got these brown patches 774 00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:01,500 from the female dogs. 775 00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:02,933 The male, that doesn't seem to be an issue. 776 00:32:02,933 --> 00:32:04,433 And I don't know why that is, 777 00:32:04,433 --> 00:32:06,833 maybe it's just a different pattern, 778 00:32:06,833 --> 00:32:09,466 but how do I reclaim those patches? 779 00:32:09,466 --> 00:32:10,900 It seems like by the end of the summer 780 00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:12,333 they're green again, 781 00:32:12,333 --> 00:32:14,900 but it takes a long time for those patches. 782 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:17,066 And I mean, so is it really just about watering? 783 00:32:17,066 --> 00:32:18,866 - I mean yeah, just diluting that 784 00:32:18,866 --> 00:32:22,133 because as long as that high nitrogen content is there, 785 00:32:22,133 --> 00:32:22,966 it's kind of burnt it 786 00:32:22,966 --> 00:32:25,266 and your grass will slowly recover 787 00:32:25,266 --> 00:32:29,300 and just spread into that and fill in those areas. 788 00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:31,266 You can encourage that by overeating. 789 00:32:31,266 --> 00:32:34,300 But any kind of grass that is gonna be exposed 790 00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:37,366 to that large concentration of urine is gonna get brown. 791 00:32:37,366 --> 00:32:39,333 - That'd be an interesting one to pull a soil core 792 00:32:39,333 --> 00:32:41,033 and have it analyzed and see what's there. 793 00:32:41,033 --> 00:32:43,633 But I imagine it's just high salinity from all, you know, 794 00:32:43,633 --> 00:32:46,100 everything, all the salts, right? 795 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:48,366 - But then I end up with these bright green circles 796 00:32:48,366 --> 00:32:50,166 all over the place by the end of the summer, right? 797 00:32:50,166 --> 00:32:52,566 - [Abi] Yeah, they're filling in. 798 00:32:52,566 --> 00:32:54,266 - Actually if you look at our lawn right now, 799 00:32:54,266 --> 00:32:56,200 you can see we're probably nitrogen limited 800 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,300 because it's really short. 801 00:32:57,300 --> 00:32:59,266 But then where the dog is urinated 802 00:32:59,266 --> 00:33:02,166 it's quite a bit taller in spots. 803 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,333 Okay, Abi, another caller, 804 00:33:05,333 --> 00:33:07,833 caller had out lilac removed from the lawn. 805 00:33:07,833 --> 00:33:10,500 They're putting in a building in that area 806 00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:12,600 and are wondering if the leftover roots 807 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,100 will continue to sucker and become a problem. 808 00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:19,400 - I mean it depends on how much of the lilac you removed. 809 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:20,733 If you remove the good amount 810 00:33:20,733 --> 00:33:23,766 and you dug it out, lilac, I haven't seen to be something 811 00:33:23,766 --> 00:33:26,266 that will really prolifically sucker 812 00:33:26,266 --> 00:33:29,233 around if you've removed the majority of it. 813 00:33:29,233 --> 00:33:32,133 If you're putting a building in, like depending on the kind, 814 00:33:32,133 --> 00:33:34,466 I mean, I wouldn't worry too much about 815 00:33:34,466 --> 00:33:38,400 that if you've removed the majority of that root system. 816 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,300 - Yeah, I would think so. 817 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:40,733 Lilacs don't, yeah, they're not as bad. 818 00:33:40,733 --> 00:33:42,466 - They're not like aspens 819 00:33:42,466 --> 00:33:44,333 and things like that that are just gonna pop up 820 00:33:44,333 --> 00:33:45,166 all over the place. 821 00:33:45,166 --> 00:33:47,933 - Push the sidewalk up. - Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 822 00:33:47,933 --> 00:33:49,733 - Don't seem to be stuff. - And if you are interested 823 00:33:49,733 --> 00:33:51,400 in trees, this is a perfect opportunity. 824 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,566 We have our Gardening in Montana spring workshop 825 00:33:54,566 --> 00:33:56,466 that's coming up in May 18th. 826 00:33:56,466 --> 00:34:00,700 And so we're gonna have a focus on trees for this workshop. 827 00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:04,166 And so if you are interested in, 828 00:34:04,166 --> 00:34:07,333 we have a variety of cool topics including, 829 00:34:07,333 --> 00:34:10,300 you know, container gardening 830 00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:13,700 and trees, tree issues, tree recommendations for Montana, 831 00:34:13,700 --> 00:34:15,833 beekeeping, planting design. 832 00:34:15,833 --> 00:34:18,133 So if you are interested, it's on May 18th, 833 00:34:18,133 --> 00:34:20,700 it's gonna be at Museum of the Rockies, 834 00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:22,866 it's $20 that includes lunch 835 00:34:22,866 --> 00:34:24,900 and the QR code should be scannable 836 00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:29,700 or you can go to bit.ly/monte- 837 00:34:31,366 --> 00:34:34,366 I think the, yeah, MSU 2024 gardening. 838 00:34:34,366 --> 00:34:37,133 And if you can't get a hold of that, 839 00:34:37,133 --> 00:34:39,133 please send me an email and I'll send you a link. 840 00:34:39,133 --> 00:34:42,533 But we have that coming up in a couple of weeks. 841 00:34:42,533 --> 00:34:44,266 - Great. Thanks, it'll be great. 842 00:34:44,266 --> 00:34:46,533 I bet everyone will learn a lot. 843 00:34:46,533 --> 00:34:50,000 Okay, we had a follow up question for John and Perry 844 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,033 and you guys mentioned stripper headers. 845 00:34:53,033 --> 00:34:55,666 Caller wants to know what is the stripper header? 846 00:34:55,666 --> 00:34:57,966 Do you use it in regenerative agriculture 847 00:34:57,966 --> 00:35:01,266 and what kind of are the advantages of a stripper header? 848 00:35:01,266 --> 00:35:04,966 - Yeah, I, so a stripper header is kind of a, 849 00:35:04,966 --> 00:35:06,800 it's got all these blades with these fingers 850 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,833 that rip the head of the wheat, 851 00:35:08,833 --> 00:35:11,600 kind of strips it off the stem 852 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,433 and it goes into the combine just the head. 853 00:35:13,433 --> 00:35:15,900 So you're really only thrashing the head of it. 854 00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:18,766 And so you're lot better on your machine. 855 00:35:18,766 --> 00:35:20,133 You're not burning as much fuel 856 00:35:20,133 --> 00:35:23,300 and you're leaving like a large amount of the stem there 857 00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:27,000 to catch snow, to shade the ground and just provide cover. 858 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,566 And you can, since you're not thrashing the whole stem, 859 00:35:30,566 --> 00:35:32,466 you can go a lot faster. 860 00:35:32,466 --> 00:35:35,300 And it's just, they have a lot of benefits 861 00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:36,566 in regenerative agriculture 862 00:35:36,566 --> 00:35:38,166 and they're really fun to use 863 00:35:38,166 --> 00:35:40,333 and there's not much to 'em, so. 864 00:35:40,333 --> 00:35:41,366 - Yeah. 865 00:35:41,366 --> 00:35:43,333 - Yeah, no, I was actually surprised to hear 866 00:35:43,333 --> 00:35:45,233 that you were using 'em in organic agriculture. 867 00:35:45,233 --> 00:35:46,866 'Cause they're a big deal in no-till systems. 868 00:35:46,866 --> 00:35:49,900 I think this is actually gonna be the next big game changer 869 00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:51,200 for no-till systems 870 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,166 because it's changing on the microclimate 871 00:35:53,166 --> 00:35:56,500 of what's going on on the landscape in a very profound way 872 00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:59,433 by reducing evaporation, reducing wind speed, you know, 873 00:35:59,433 --> 00:36:01,600 increasing water use efficiency. 874 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,200 So we've been doing a study at the post farm where we just, 875 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,633 we're not quite a stripper header, 876 00:36:05,633 --> 00:36:07,166 but we harvest our wheat pretty tall. 877 00:36:07,166 --> 00:36:09,533 So we got tall versus short stubble. 878 00:36:09,533 --> 00:36:12,000 And we have, over the last six years, 879 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,266 we've got 16 comparisons where we can grow, 880 00:36:14,266 --> 00:36:17,433 compare the yields in tall stubble versus short stubble. 881 00:36:17,433 --> 00:36:20,133 The yield has never been higher in short stubble. 882 00:36:20,133 --> 00:36:21,933 And five of those 16 cases, 883 00:36:21,933 --> 00:36:23,866 it was higher in the tall stubble, 884 00:36:23,866 --> 00:36:26,833 presumably because of higher water use efficiency. 885 00:36:26,833 --> 00:36:30,300 And in those five years that average 13% higher yield. 886 00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:32,966 Well if it cost me less they harvest it, right, 887 00:36:32,966 --> 00:36:34,200 and I get more yield. 888 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,300 I mean this is, this is like, hmm, why wouldn't I do that? 889 00:36:37,300 --> 00:36:40,300 - There's a grower up by us, he has a YouTube channel 890 00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:42,433 and stuff, Corey Falcon and he did a little video 891 00:36:42,433 --> 00:36:44,866 where the wind was howling like 70 miles an hour 892 00:36:44,866 --> 00:36:46,200 and he got down in the stubble 893 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,333 and you could hear 'em talking 894 00:36:47,333 --> 00:36:48,366 and you couldn't hear the wind. 895 00:36:48,366 --> 00:36:50,600 And so it was, yeah, they're really great 896 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:51,566 for erosion and things like that. 897 00:36:51,566 --> 00:36:54,300 - Does it make it hard to go back in and plant, right? 898 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:57,133 You have this really tall stubble that's out there 899 00:36:57,133 --> 00:36:59,500 and do you need different, 900 00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:00,766 do you need a different kind of drill? 901 00:37:00,766 --> 00:37:02,500 Would would a hoe drill work 902 00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:04,700 or do you need a real disc drill? 903 00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:05,633 - That's a good question. Yeah. 904 00:37:05,633 --> 00:37:08,533 The way that I'm doing it right now, I have a disc drill, 905 00:37:09,466 --> 00:37:11,733 but you still get like some things caught up 906 00:37:11,733 --> 00:37:13,166 in the opener there. 907 00:37:14,366 --> 00:37:17,133 But really I'm doing that tillage pass with that disc 908 00:37:17,133 --> 00:37:19,500 before, so it's chopping everything pretty good. 909 00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:21,166 And then you don't have any problems. 910 00:37:21,166 --> 00:37:23,066 So I think if you were gonna be in tillage 911 00:37:23,066 --> 00:37:25,433 or organic, Odrill would be fine, 912 00:37:25,433 --> 00:37:28,533 but you might have find yourself dragging some bunches 913 00:37:28,533 --> 00:37:29,600 of stock eventually. 914 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,133 But this drill's pretty nice to cut through things. 915 00:37:33,133 --> 00:37:35,833 - I think in no-till systems, that is the catch, right? 916 00:37:35,833 --> 00:37:37,633 You probably do need a disc drill. 917 00:37:37,633 --> 00:37:38,866 And so that's, you know, 918 00:37:38,866 --> 00:37:39,833 if you don't already have one, 919 00:37:39,833 --> 00:37:42,000 that's a pretty major purchase to go along 920 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:42,800 with the stripper header. 921 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,066 So you get all the winds, 922 00:37:44,066 --> 00:37:45,866 but you're gonna have to change 923 00:37:45,866 --> 00:37:47,100 your seating method a little bit. 924 00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:49,233 - And those disc drills are a lot of maintenance 925 00:37:49,233 --> 00:37:50,800 - Can be, can be. - Yeah. 926 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,233 Another thing about the stripper header 927 00:37:52,233 --> 00:37:54,666 is they're quite a bit heavier than a regular header. 928 00:37:54,666 --> 00:37:57,166 So you kind of, if anybody's thinking about buying one, 929 00:37:57,166 --> 00:37:59,600 they should be aware of the weight 930 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:00,933 that their combine can handle. 931 00:38:00,933 --> 00:38:04,333 So mine's a, I think 26 or 32 foot 932 00:38:04,333 --> 00:38:07,666 and you know, I've known guys that bought the big 36 933 00:38:07,666 --> 00:38:10,766 or 40 footers and it's a lot for their combines, so. 934 00:38:12,733 --> 00:38:15,800 - Thanks. So we had a great question. 935 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:20,000 So Abi to you, we have a caller from, 936 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,033 well we have two caller. 937 00:38:21,033 --> 00:38:24,300 First a question from Missoula is wondering if she can use 938 00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:27,833 soil that's been dug up by ground squirrels in her garden. 939 00:38:27,833 --> 00:38:30,866 Maybe Mac or Abi, you guys could answer that 940 00:38:30,866 --> 00:38:32,233 and then we'll come back 941 00:38:32,233 --> 00:38:35,133 and we'll talk to them about the next question. 942 00:38:35,133 --> 00:38:38,100 - I mean if it was a, if it was like a perennial bed 943 00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:40,200 or something like that, I wouldn't worry too much. 944 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,400 But if it was a veggie garden, 945 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,000 I might be concerned about potential disease issues. 946 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,000 But I would say I'm not too sure 947 00:38:50,366 --> 00:38:51,833 depending on the context, 948 00:38:51,833 --> 00:38:56,200 if I would use it in any kind of garden 949 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,100 where you're growing food. 950 00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:00,666 - Yeah, I might just throw it in the compost pile 951 00:39:00,666 --> 00:39:03,500 and dig it out a couple years later when it comes out. 952 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:06,400 - It is good to have had gophers, right? 953 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,433 (Mac laughing) - Yeah. 954 00:39:08,433 --> 00:39:11,933 - Okay, Abi, a follow up. 955 00:39:11,933 --> 00:39:14,033 Florence Kohler has wild roses 956 00:39:14,033 --> 00:39:17,066 that have taken over their lawn. 957 00:39:17,066 --> 00:39:20,033 They want to know if there is an easier way 958 00:39:20,033 --> 00:39:23,600 to control them or if they have to take the hard way 959 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,800 and dig them out themselves. 960 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,800 - That's gonna be hard. 961 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,000 I mean you can use herbicides, you can use, you know, 962 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,700 a broadleaf herbicide potentially 963 00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:38,400 to try and manage it. 964 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,966 But for kind of woody plants, it's difficult. 965 00:39:40,966 --> 00:39:42,833 You're gonna need to remove that, 966 00:39:42,833 --> 00:39:46,766 the woody material physically anyways. 967 00:39:46,766 --> 00:39:50,066 So I would say you might need to use a combination 968 00:39:50,066 --> 00:39:53,100 of those two strategies to get a hold of that. 969 00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:54,600 Do you have any thoughts on that? 970 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,166 - Yeah, I mean I think digging 971 00:39:56,166 --> 00:39:58,333 all those wild rows roots out, 972 00:39:58,333 --> 00:40:02,400 that's a battle that's not gonna be easily won 973 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,666 or if it's even possible. 974 00:40:04,666 --> 00:40:07,533 If you really want to get rid of 'em, 975 00:40:07,533 --> 00:40:10,366 herbicides probably the only way I'd really know 976 00:40:10,366 --> 00:40:13,833 how to get rid of them fully in that context. 977 00:40:13,833 --> 00:40:15,533 And there are some broadleaf herbicides 978 00:40:15,533 --> 00:40:17,233 that people use on their lawns 979 00:40:17,233 --> 00:40:20,233 that would probably get the wild roses pretty, pretty well. 980 00:40:20,233 --> 00:40:23,033 - So a few years ago when I was in Big Sandy 981 00:40:23,033 --> 00:40:26,500 that came across somebody who had this mutant type 982 00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:27,933 of wild rose that apparently came out 983 00:40:27,933 --> 00:40:29,633 of the Bear Palm Mountains 984 00:40:29,633 --> 00:40:30,966 and it has an orange blossom on it. 985 00:40:30,966 --> 00:40:32,800 You know, usually roses are pink or yellow, 986 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,366 but this has, it is orange and it's beautiful. 987 00:40:35,366 --> 00:40:37,066 And so I have that in my yard 988 00:40:37,066 --> 00:40:40,333 and for one week, ah, it's fun to look at 989 00:40:40,333 --> 00:40:41,466 (all laughing) 990 00:40:41,466 --> 00:40:43,000 but it is spreading everywhere. 991 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,466 And so I'm constantly mowing, you know, chopping off stem. 992 00:40:45,466 --> 00:40:47,600 - So does consistent mowing not keep it? 993 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,166 - Yeah, it does. It slows it down pretty good, so. 994 00:40:50,166 --> 00:40:51,500 - You know, I think so that's another, 995 00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:55,233 and you're a weeds person like having a healthy lawn. 996 00:40:55,233 --> 00:40:59,600 Is or any crop isn't, you know, job number one 997 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,533 in weed competition. - [Tim] Yep. 998 00:41:01,533 --> 00:41:03,533 - Mowing and... - [Abi] Yeah. 999 00:41:04,466 --> 00:41:06,633 - Maybe letting your lawn being in a little higher too, 1000 00:41:06,633 --> 00:41:08,566 getting that grass really dense in there. 1001 00:41:08,566 --> 00:41:12,133 But that, yeah, rose will always, yeah. 1002 00:41:12,133 --> 00:41:12,966 - When I want get rid of it, 1003 00:41:12,966 --> 00:41:14,433 I dig it up and I give it to friends. 1004 00:41:14,433 --> 00:41:16,366 (all laughing) - I'll take some. 1005 00:41:17,433 --> 00:41:19,200 - There you go. Yeah. 1006 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,100 Alright, we have a caller, 1007 00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:23,433 I don't know if we can answer this, 1008 00:41:23,433 --> 00:41:25,800 maybe we will refer him to Stephen Vantassel. 1009 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,900 Caller from Ronan is wondering how to get rid 1010 00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:31,333 of voles in their pasture land. 1011 00:41:34,233 --> 00:41:35,166 - I think that's a Stephen Vantassel. 1012 00:41:35,166 --> 00:41:37,266 - Stephen Vantassel question. 1013 00:41:37,266 --> 00:41:39,666 He's Montana Department of Agriculture, 1014 00:41:39,666 --> 00:41:42,133 the vertebrate control specialist. 1015 00:41:42,133 --> 00:41:43,400 You can find him on the internet 1016 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,100 and if you can't find him, reach out to us 1017 00:41:45,100 --> 00:41:47,566 and we'll get you in contact with him. 1018 00:41:47,566 --> 00:41:50,066 I was just talking to him last week. 1019 00:41:50,066 --> 00:41:52,233 So we had a question that came in that's maybe 1020 00:41:52,233 --> 00:41:54,800 a mix of garden and a crop. 1021 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,933 And that is, can we grow cow peas, black eyed peas, 1022 00:41:59,933 --> 00:42:03,900 or also sometimes called purple hull peas in Montana? 1023 00:42:05,166 --> 00:42:06,566 - Well we're gonna find out. 1024 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:09,533 So Zach Miller actually 1025 00:42:09,533 --> 00:42:12,700 over at the Western Ag Research Center over by Missoula 1026 00:42:13,733 --> 00:42:16,533 has been playing with various early maturing lines 1027 00:42:16,533 --> 00:42:19,500 of cow peas and actually gotten seed yield 1028 00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:20,700 of several of them. 1029 00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:22,633 And so we've got a research project underway. 1030 00:42:22,633 --> 00:42:25,666 I've actually grown seed now twice at, you know, 1031 00:42:25,666 --> 00:42:26,500 here at the post farmers. 1032 00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:27,800 It's a pretty cold environment, right? 1033 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,300 So if I can do it here, 1034 00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:31,233 you can do it probably just about anywhere in Montana. 1035 00:42:31,233 --> 00:42:34,400 I thought we were just being so incredibly innovative 1036 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,833 with this, you know, really drought, 1037 00:42:36,833 --> 00:42:38,333 hearty, warm season cow pea. 1038 00:42:38,333 --> 00:42:40,933 And then I'm looking through the crop statistics 1039 00:42:40,933 --> 00:42:43,800 for Montana when they came out in February 1040 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,133 and somebody in Sheridan County grew a whole quarter section 1041 00:42:47,133 --> 00:42:48,300 of cow peas last year. 1042 00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:50,966 And so I actually, you know how small Montana is, 1043 00:42:50,966 --> 00:42:53,566 I was able to actually find out who the grower was 1044 00:42:53,566 --> 00:42:56,000 and called him up and we had a good visit 1045 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,133 and now he's growing 400 acres this year. 1046 00:42:59,133 --> 00:43:00,766 'Cause the first time it worked so well 1047 00:43:00,766 --> 00:43:02,666 and he made, you know, made some good money from it. 1048 00:43:02,666 --> 00:43:06,500 So yeah, maybe it's more possible than 1049 00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:08,400 - The the word cow peas, you think you feed 'em to cows, 1050 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,633 but that's the same species as a black eyed peas. 1051 00:43:10,633 --> 00:43:11,466 - Yeah, so his was black eyed pea. 1052 00:43:11,466 --> 00:43:13,466 So there's so many different bean types, 1053 00:43:13,466 --> 00:43:16,500 but specifically the black eyed pea has pretty high value. 1054 00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:18,033 - Pretty high value food product there. 1055 00:43:18,033 --> 00:43:20,100 - Yeah, it is a high value food box. 1056 00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:21,400 - That's a warm season. 1057 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,200 - Cow peas, black eyed peas 1058 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,700 and Purple Hut peas are not true beans 1059 00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:27,300 to the genus Phaseolus, 1060 00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:30,300 which is a bean from Central America. 1061 00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:31,800 Cow peas, black Eyed Peas, 1062 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,166 and those are actually an African legume 1063 00:43:34,166 --> 00:43:37,166 that were originally domesticated in 1064 00:43:37,166 --> 00:43:38,066 - [John] They're not peas either. 1065 00:43:38,066 --> 00:43:39,533 - And they're not pea's either. 1066 00:43:39,533 --> 00:43:41,100 And they're not peas either. 1067 00:43:41,100 --> 00:43:44,500 Yeah, so we don't have great names for them so yeah, 1068 00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:46,900 But was it, so is the growing time needed, 1069 00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:49,533 is it less than say a dry bean in Montana? 1070 00:43:49,533 --> 00:43:51,166 You know, we produce some dry beans. 1071 00:43:51,166 --> 00:43:52,700 - Yeah, it's similar to dry beans, right? 1072 00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:55,266 So very, very high heat requirements. 1073 00:43:55,266 --> 00:43:58,433 I don't think we even start to get any emergence 1074 00:43:58,433 --> 00:44:00,533 until the soil's at least 60 degrees 1075 00:44:01,766 --> 00:44:03,533 and then you worry about frost, right? 1076 00:44:03,533 --> 00:44:05,866 Because it's the growing points above ground. 1077 00:44:05,866 --> 00:44:09,800 So we've been fortunate, we had a little bit of frost 1078 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,733 last spring and it burned them up pretty good. 1079 00:44:11,733 --> 00:44:14,400 But you, two or three weeks later they grad, you know, 1080 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,000 they grew out of it and we've dodged some fall frosts 1081 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,000 and so we'll see. 1082 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,000 We're gonna keep playing with them. Yeah. 1083 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,366 - I've grown them in a cover crop mix before. 1084 00:44:23,366 --> 00:44:24,366 - Okay. - Yeah. 1085 00:44:24,366 --> 00:44:26,566 And I had Joseph from Timeless Seeds 1086 00:44:26,566 --> 00:44:27,733 who was originally from Kenya 1087 00:44:27,733 --> 00:44:30,233 and he was like, is that a cow pea in that cover crop mix? 1088 00:44:30,233 --> 00:44:31,066 I'm like, yeah. 1089 00:44:31,066 --> 00:44:34,033 And he got really excited so that was really fun. 1090 00:44:34,033 --> 00:44:35,833 - Imagine it's something that some breeding work 1091 00:44:35,833 --> 00:44:36,900 would help with. 1092 00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:40,066 I know the dry beans have a weird interaction 1093 00:44:40,066 --> 00:44:41,033 between photo period 1094 00:44:41,033 --> 00:44:43,900 and nighttime temperatures that can control their flowering 1095 00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:46,600 and you know, the days to flowering 1096 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,200 that are listed in variety descriptions 1097 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,666 or just all over the place in a place 1098 00:44:50,666 --> 00:44:51,833 where it gets cold at night. 1099 00:44:51,833 --> 00:44:54,866 - One of the, just what, not to belabor cow pea here, 1100 00:44:54,866 --> 00:44:56,566 but one of the reasons we're interested in them 1101 00:44:56,566 --> 00:44:58,933 is they're pretty unique for producing 1102 00:44:58,933 --> 00:45:00,266 an extra floral nectar. 1103 00:45:00,266 --> 00:45:03,600 So a nectar long before it flowers. 1104 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,266 - And the extra fluoro nectaries can, 1105 00:45:06,266 --> 00:45:10,066 the parasitoid wasp that attacks the wheat stem 1106 00:45:10,066 --> 00:45:14,200 softly needs those extra floral nectaries to live 1107 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,166 or to get more nutrition out of it. 1108 00:45:16,166 --> 00:45:18,833 So that could be one of the advantages. Yeah. 1109 00:45:18,833 --> 00:45:20,700 Okay, we have a couple questions. 1110 00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:22,600 Perry, these are all coming to you. 1111 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,933 So first we have a caller from Shelby Huwan, 1112 00:45:25,933 --> 00:45:29,533 is wondering how to dig up and transplant wild roses? 1113 00:45:29,533 --> 00:45:34,433 The second one comes from Perry from Mar Bora Sydney, 1114 00:45:34,433 --> 00:45:36,066 Australia. 1115 00:45:36,066 --> 00:45:39,366 And that one is after your orange rose, 1116 00:45:39,366 --> 00:45:41,833 after your orange roses bloom, 1117 00:45:41,833 --> 00:45:45,866 what do you do with the rose hips and are they orange too? 1118 00:45:45,866 --> 00:45:47,666 - That's a great, I'll answer the last one first. 1119 00:45:47,666 --> 00:45:50,500 It doesn't produce any rose hips and I don't know why. 1120 00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:52,733 So it just blooms and you know, everything dries up 1121 00:45:52,733 --> 00:45:53,700 and, yeah. 1122 00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:54,533 So it's not like a, you know, 1123 00:45:54,533 --> 00:45:55,866 our conventional wild rose where you get 1124 00:45:55,866 --> 00:45:57,366 that nice red berry. 1125 00:45:57,366 --> 00:45:58,500 Don't get anything like that. 1126 00:45:58,500 --> 00:45:59,833 So that's a great question. 1127 00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:04,800 So, well you probably have a better answer 1128 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,166 for what time of year to, you know, 1129 00:46:06,166 --> 00:46:08,766 usually I try to go later in the fall 1130 00:46:08,766 --> 00:46:11,000 when things are cool and yeah. 1131 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:11,900 - Yeah, yeah. 1132 00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:15,100 Fall is one of the best times to transplant anything. 1133 00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:17,766 So yeah, I would dig it up usually, you know, 1134 00:46:17,766 --> 00:46:20,933 probably at the end of September or so 1135 00:46:20,933 --> 00:46:24,266 and find a new spot to put it, but... 1136 00:46:24,266 --> 00:46:25,400 - [Perry] Could you do it this time of year? 1137 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:26,233 Could you do it right now? - You can, yeah. 1138 00:46:26,233 --> 00:46:28,466 You can definitely, if the soil is workable right now, 1139 00:46:28,466 --> 00:46:29,366 you definitely can. 1140 00:46:29,366 --> 00:46:31,233 And also spring and fall are usually 1141 00:46:31,233 --> 00:46:35,966 the most popular times to transplant, 1142 00:46:35,966 --> 00:46:37,233 - So I used to grow tea roses 1143 00:46:37,233 --> 00:46:39,766 and like they would die all the time. 1144 00:46:39,766 --> 00:46:42,466 - This is not the best safe for tea roses, no. 1145 00:46:42,466 --> 00:46:45,766 - This wild rose is, it's a hardy thing. 1146 00:46:45,766 --> 00:46:48,466 - Yeah. Okay. 1147 00:46:48,466 --> 00:46:52,133 So we had a Bozeman caller who is wondering 1148 00:46:52,133 --> 00:46:55,433 if free mulch that the city of Bozeman provides 1149 00:46:55,433 --> 00:46:57,833 is safe to use not knowing 1150 00:46:57,833 --> 00:47:00,766 if they had any sorts of disease issues or not. 1151 00:47:00,766 --> 00:47:04,266 And if so, where should they use it? Garden trees, etc? 1152 00:47:04,266 --> 00:47:07,566 - Yeah, so if you're getting mulch from any kind of arborist 1153 00:47:07,566 --> 00:47:09,366 or tree company or anything like that, 1154 00:47:09,366 --> 00:47:11,500 it's usually safe to use. 1155 00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:13,800 They have some really good practices in place 1156 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,433 and there's very few diseases that can be transmitted 1157 00:47:16,433 --> 00:47:19,033 through the wood chips that are that small in size. 1158 00:47:19,033 --> 00:47:22,600 And so, you know, they're usually not going 1159 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,700 to be mulching diseased trees 1160 00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:26,266 and probably distributing that. 1161 00:47:26,266 --> 00:47:28,866 So if it's just, you know, wood chips like that 1162 00:47:28,866 --> 00:47:31,466 it be safe to use and, yeah. 1163 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,266 Absolutely. 1164 00:47:33,266 --> 00:47:34,166 - Okay, great. 1165 00:47:34,166 --> 00:47:38,200 So John, quickly someone was asking, 1166 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,566 you're a member of the Montana Organic Association 1167 00:47:41,566 --> 00:47:46,100 and are there gonna be any MOA field days this summer 1168 00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:49,400 and where should they maybe think about looking for those? 1169 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:50,733 - Yeah, so we should, 1170 00:47:50,733 --> 00:47:52,300 we're getting kind of the ball rolling. 1171 00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:54,866 I think we've got a meeting Tuesday on farm tours, 1172 00:47:54,866 --> 00:47:57,033 but we should have a few in the, 1173 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,366 like we have a few tentatively planned 1174 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,400 maybe Bob Quinn's Institute 1175 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,433 and I've heard Darryl Licila might have one 1176 00:48:05,433 --> 00:48:08,266 and we're looking for some other suggestions as well. 1177 00:48:08,266 --> 00:48:10,000 But those will be throughout the summer. 1178 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,566 And what we're looking, I think we're gonna try 1179 00:48:12,566 --> 00:48:14,766 and have six field days, 1180 00:48:14,766 --> 00:48:16,233 so you can just check out the website 1181 00:48:16,233 --> 00:48:19,766 and then the conference will be in early December 1182 00:48:19,766 --> 00:48:22,433 and that's a really good event to network 1183 00:48:22,433 --> 00:48:23,266 and meet people. 1184 00:48:23,266 --> 00:48:25,566 And you know, if you're interested in organic, 1185 00:48:25,566 --> 00:48:27,700 it's a really fun community to come hang out 1186 00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:29,133 and visit with everybody. 1187 00:48:29,133 --> 00:48:31,166 - [Perry] And good food. - And good food, yeah. 1188 00:48:31,166 --> 00:48:32,000 - They do. 1189 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,466 Montana Organic Association holds the prize 1190 00:48:34,466 --> 00:48:36,100 for the best food of most meetings 1191 00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:37,733 across the state every year. 1192 00:48:37,733 --> 00:48:40,500 So Abi, we're talking about tubers here. 1193 00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:42,066 We have a few minutes left. 1194 00:48:42,066 --> 00:48:43,800 What do you have here in front of us? 1195 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,000 - Yeah, so these are sunchokes 1196 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,400 or Jerusalem artichokes, they're in the Sunflower family, 1197 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,400 Helianthus tuberosus. 1198 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:57,433 And Mac and I and Tim were talking about this earlier, 1199 00:48:57,433 --> 00:49:00,233 but this is a sunflower like plant. 1200 00:49:00,233 --> 00:49:02,133 So it's a really great pollinator plant. 1201 00:49:02,133 --> 00:49:05,933 But these tubers are edible, raw and cooked 1202 00:49:05,933 --> 00:49:07,633 and one of the unique things 1203 00:49:07,633 --> 00:49:11,400 is that their main carbohydrate source is inulin, 1204 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,900 not starch like potatoes. 1205 00:49:13,900 --> 00:49:15,366 I haven't tried them raw 1206 00:49:15,366 --> 00:49:18,200 but I've had them cooked in like curries and stuff like that 1207 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:19,066 and they're pretty good. 1208 00:49:19,066 --> 00:49:21,200 And Max had experience growing them 1209 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,333 on the horticulture farm. 1210 00:49:24,333 --> 00:49:27,233 But I'm gonna experiment with this this year 1211 00:49:27,233 --> 00:49:29,800 and see what happens. 1212 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,433 - [Mac] So it's a perennial sunflower. 1213 00:49:31,433 --> 00:49:32,266 - Yeah, it's a perennial sunflower. 1214 00:49:32,266 --> 00:49:33,566 - Make great big tall flowers 1215 00:49:33,566 --> 00:49:35,600 and then they go dormant over the winter 1216 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,566 and then this time of year you could dig one up 1217 00:49:37,566 --> 00:49:38,766 and those looks like the roots 1218 00:49:38,766 --> 00:49:39,900 are just starting to grow again. 1219 00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:42,366 But you could take that and clean it... 1220 00:49:42,366 --> 00:49:44,566 - Absolutely. - And cook it and eat it. 1221 00:49:44,566 --> 00:49:45,600 - Yeah, absolutely. 1222 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:46,800 - I heard they give you gas. 1223 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,433 (Abi laughing) 1224 00:49:48,433 --> 00:49:50,700 Now what doesn't. (all laughing) 1225 00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:51,500 - [Tim] That's okay. 1226 00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:55,300 - But yeah, this is gonna be my experiment for this year. 1227 00:49:55,300 --> 00:49:56,600 - Yep. Great. 1228 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,633 So, okay, we have a couple more callers 1229 00:49:58,633 --> 00:50:00,000 and a few more minutes here. 1230 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,566 So Helena caller knows that people 1231 00:50:02,566 --> 00:50:05,433 around town have chickens in small areas 1232 00:50:05,433 --> 00:50:07,633 that are typically fed food scraps. 1233 00:50:07,633 --> 00:50:10,200 They would like to know if this will cause problems 1234 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:15,333 with the soil later on by feeding food scraps? 1235 00:50:15,333 --> 00:50:17,100 I don't... - I don't see... 1236 00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:18,000 - Yeah, I don't think so. 1237 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,333 I think it's all well digested by the chicken 1238 00:50:21,333 --> 00:50:22,600 and comes out the other side. 1239 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:23,866 - You've didn't feed any food scraps 1240 00:50:23,866 --> 00:50:25,500 to chickens in my yard for many years. 1241 00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:26,900 - [Tim] Yep. I've never had any. 1242 00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:27,966 - We have a pretty good garden there. 1243 00:50:27,966 --> 00:50:31,466 - Yep. John, do you have any livestock on your operation? 1244 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:33,900 - We have a few layer hens, 1245 00:50:33,900 --> 00:50:35,733 but a lot of the animals 1246 00:50:35,733 --> 00:50:37,200 that we integrate on the cover crops 1247 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,466 and the acres are leased to, 1248 00:50:39,466 --> 00:50:41,466 I have rancher neighbors on each side of me 1249 00:50:41,466 --> 00:50:43,433 so kind of just leased to them 1250 00:50:43,433 --> 00:50:45,733 and then they can kind of deal with all the cattle, 1251 00:50:45,733 --> 00:50:47,933 and we kinda have a time we like to put 'em in 1252 00:50:47,933 --> 00:50:51,300 and so it works out pretty well for everybody. 1253 00:50:51,300 --> 00:50:53,033 We've had some feed value tests on those 1254 00:50:53,033 --> 00:50:54,733 cover crops that came back pretty high. 1255 00:50:54,733 --> 00:50:57,066 I think they were 159 or something 1256 00:50:57,066 --> 00:51:00,166 and so they were, they were pretty excited about that 1257 00:51:00,166 --> 00:51:02,766 and their calves were a little fatter at shipping 1258 00:51:02,766 --> 00:51:05,200 than they'd had been on average, so. 1259 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,733 So it works out really well. 1260 00:51:06,733 --> 00:51:07,566 - Great. 1261 00:51:07,566 --> 00:51:09,600 - What kind of arrangement do you have with them? 1262 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:10,433 - It we just... 1263 00:51:10,433 --> 00:51:12,633 - is it just trading chores back and forth 1264 00:51:12,633 --> 00:51:14,333 or is there actually money changing hands Up there? 1265 00:51:14,333 --> 00:51:16,166 - It's like a regular lease. 1266 00:51:16,166 --> 00:51:18,733 You know, I've heard people say you can get quite a bit 1267 00:51:18,733 --> 00:51:20,600 more money out of a cover crop lease, 1268 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,733 but we also lease pasture to 'em 1269 00:51:22,733 --> 00:51:24,566 so we just kinda keep it similar right there 1270 00:51:24,566 --> 00:51:27,366 because it benefits my soil and benefits them. 1271 00:51:27,366 --> 00:51:29,700 And if everybody can kind of work together 1272 00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:31,500 and have that, you know, 1273 00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:33,233 that whole relationship working together, 1274 00:51:33,233 --> 00:51:35,166 then it's really helpful for everybody. 1275 00:51:36,833 --> 00:51:38,433 - Great, thanks. 1276 00:51:38,433 --> 00:51:40,533 So we have a Billings caller. 1277 00:51:41,733 --> 00:51:43,900 Caller from Billings growing grapes. 1278 00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:48,066 Her day lilies have spread into her grape growing area. 1279 00:51:48,066 --> 00:51:50,133 What should she do? 1280 00:51:50,133 --> 00:51:51,800 - I mean, I would say dig them up 1281 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,033 and put them where you want them to be 1282 00:51:54,033 --> 00:51:57,900 for the day lilies, if you wanna keep 'em, yeah. 1283 00:51:57,900 --> 00:52:00,433 Now is a really good time to divide your, you know, 1284 00:52:00,433 --> 00:52:01,833 perennials and things like that. 1285 00:52:01,833 --> 00:52:04,166 So now is a good time to dig up your daily lilies, 1286 00:52:04,166 --> 00:52:07,400 find a new spot to put them in, that's what I would do. 1287 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,766 - Maybe plant some Jerusalem artichokes. 1288 00:52:09,766 --> 00:52:11,833 And some choke in there with the day lilies 1289 00:52:11,833 --> 00:52:13,500 and see what's more competitive. 1290 00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:15,133 - Those are tough daily lilies. 1291 00:52:15,133 --> 00:52:17,100 'Cause I don't think you'd ever get day lilies 1292 00:52:17,100 --> 00:52:18,833 going on my grapes. 1293 00:52:18,833 --> 00:52:23,600 - Yeah, no, that's probably much warmer in billings. 1294 00:52:24,966 --> 00:52:29,033 So, oh, we have another follow up question from Australia, 1295 00:52:29,033 --> 00:52:31,500 are there any edible herbs 1296 00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:33,600 that are good pollinator plants? 1297 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,766 - Yes, there's a lot of edible herbs 1298 00:52:35,766 --> 00:52:37,433 that are good pollinator plants. 1299 00:52:37,433 --> 00:52:40,966 Mint, anything in the mint family is an excellent 1300 00:52:40,966 --> 00:52:42,366 pollinator plant. 1301 00:52:43,233 --> 00:52:45,200 Basil, you know, things like that. 1302 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,100 Yeah, lots of herbs are really good pollinator plants. 1303 00:52:50,133 --> 00:52:51,166 - Okay, so... 1304 00:52:51,166 --> 00:52:53,100 - Cilantro and dill both is and they flowers are fast. 1305 00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:56,533 - I can't think that isn't a good pollinator plant 1306 00:52:56,533 --> 00:52:57,366 to be honest. 1307 00:52:57,366 --> 00:52:59,700 I'm trying to think of one in, yeah. 1308 00:52:59,700 --> 00:53:01,300 - Yep. Okay, so we have a question. 1309 00:53:01,300 --> 00:53:03,566 Missoula caller who has a pasture 1310 00:53:03,566 --> 00:53:05,566 that's filled with whitetop 1311 00:53:05,566 --> 00:53:07,933 and they want to know how to control it 1312 00:53:07,933 --> 00:53:10,233 using an organic method. 1313 00:53:12,833 --> 00:53:15,766 - That I don't know if I have an answer for. 1314 00:53:15,766 --> 00:53:18,300 That's not a weed that I see very often. 1315 00:53:18,300 --> 00:53:20,866 - Yeah, so whitetop is a perennial weed, 1316 00:53:20,866 --> 00:53:22,866 super dense root rhizome. 1317 00:53:22,866 --> 00:53:24,566 It'll keep re germinating 1318 00:53:24,566 --> 00:53:27,266 out of that underground rhizome over and over. 1319 00:53:27,266 --> 00:53:30,000 I'm not sure there's a super easy way to control it. 1320 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,133 Have something, be super competitive, 1321 00:53:32,133 --> 00:53:33,533 dig out those stands when you can 1322 00:53:33,533 --> 00:53:35,600 and try to weaken those rhizomes 1323 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,000 I think is probably two of the best things 1324 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,900 that you could do to... 1325 00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:42,966 You may have to do brute force precision ag and go around 1326 00:53:42,966 --> 00:53:46,066 and work those areas with the whitetop. 1327 00:53:46,066 --> 00:53:47,433 - You say it was in pasture? 1328 00:53:47,433 --> 00:53:48,533 - Yeah, it was in pasture. 1329 00:53:48,533 --> 00:53:50,933 - Would mowing help at all or would that spread? 1330 00:53:50,933 --> 00:53:52,533 - So Tim's done some of that research. 1331 00:53:52,533 --> 00:53:53,366 - Yeah, I think mowing... 1332 00:53:53,366 --> 00:53:55,000 - But maybe not with whitetop specifically. 1333 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,500 - Yeah, not specifically with whitetop. 1334 00:53:56,500 --> 00:53:58,166 Mowing I think would be hard 1335 00:53:58,166 --> 00:54:00,600 because it just will encourage it to make more 1336 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,300 and more underground rhizomes over and over 1337 00:54:03,300 --> 00:54:05,166 and will eventually spread that patch. 1338 00:54:05,166 --> 00:54:06,266 - [Mac] Is it harmful to livestock? 1339 00:54:06,266 --> 00:54:08,466 - I think it is toxic to livestock. 1340 00:54:08,466 --> 00:54:12,133 It is a little bit of a toxic mustard kind of to livestock. 1341 00:54:12,133 --> 00:54:14,400 Not super acutely toxic, 1342 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,533 but I think it can be quite toxic 1343 00:54:16,533 --> 00:54:18,333 if there's long exposure to it. 1344 00:54:18,333 --> 00:54:20,000 Yeah, I would probably the organic way, 1345 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,533 it would probably be steel in the field 1346 00:54:21,533 --> 00:54:24,300 or shovel under your foot and dig those rhizomes out. 1347 00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:26,733 Put some soil in there, get some new grass growing 1348 00:54:26,733 --> 00:54:27,566 on top of it. 1349 00:54:27,566 --> 00:54:30,666 But it'll be a long, long thing to put together. 1350 00:54:30,666 --> 00:54:32,266 - And that's an expensive proposition 1351 00:54:32,266 --> 00:54:35,966 and it can be aa tilt, a erosion risk as well. 1352 00:54:35,966 --> 00:54:37,933 So that's not a easy. 1353 00:54:37,933 --> 00:54:39,866 - But if it was patch sized, 1354 00:54:39,866 --> 00:54:40,800 there's probably things you could do 1355 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,800 to mitigate the erosion risk, right? 1356 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,933 - Yep. So we're down last 45 seconds of the show. 1357 00:54:46,933 --> 00:54:49,700 We could keep talking about whitetop for hours and hours, 1358 00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:52,700 but I wanted to take thank John for coming on tonight 1359 00:54:52,700 --> 00:54:55,033 and being part of the show 1360 00:54:55,033 --> 00:54:58,866 and telling us more about the organic systems of Montana 1361 00:54:58,866 --> 00:55:00,266 and to the rest of the panelists 1362 00:55:00,266 --> 00:55:01,666 for joining us tonight. 1363 00:55:01,666 --> 00:55:03,000 In the last 30 seconds, 1364 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:04,466 anybody have anything to add 1365 00:55:04,466 --> 00:55:06,666 in terms of what to do in our gardening season 1366 00:55:06,666 --> 00:55:07,766 as it approaches. 1367 00:55:09,766 --> 00:55:11,566 - Too early to start planting? 1368 00:55:11,566 --> 00:55:13,366 - No, it's not too early to start planting, 1369 00:55:13,366 --> 00:55:17,066 but it's too early to start planting the warm season plants. 1370 00:55:17,066 --> 00:55:18,933 - Arugula and radishes. That's what I've planted. 1371 00:55:18,933 --> 00:55:20,400 - [Mac] It doesn't matter when you plant your peas, 1372 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:21,766 as long as you plant 'em in April. 1373 00:55:21,766 --> 00:55:22,900 - There you go. 1374 00:55:22,900 --> 00:55:24,733 Thanks everyone for joining us tonight 1375 00:55:24,733 --> 00:55:27,566 and we'll see you again next week. 1376 00:55:27,566 --> 00:55:28,833 Thanks. 1377 00:55:28,833 --> 00:55:31,400 (guitar music) 1378 00:55:33,866 --> 00:55:34,900 - [Narrator 2] For more information 1379 00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:36,100 and resources, 1380 00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:38,466 visit Montanapbs.org/AgLive 1381 00:55:40,533 --> 00:55:43,133 (guitar music) 1382 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,866 - Montana AG Live is made possible 1383 00:56:12,866 --> 00:56:16,066 by the Montana Department of Agriculture, 1384 00:56:18,100 --> 00:56:19,366 MSU Extension, 1385 00:56:21,866 --> 00:56:25,466 the MSU Ag Experiment Station of the College of Agriculture, 1386 00:56:27,133 --> 00:56:29,000 the Montana Wheat & Barley Committee, 1387 00:56:30,866 --> 00:56:32,800 Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, 1388 00:56:35,633 --> 00:56:37,633 and the Gallatin Gardeners Club. 1389 00:56:37,633 --> 00:56:40,666 (guitar music fading) 1390 00:56:40,666 --> 00:56:43,166 (light music)