WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:04.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: The Environmental Protection Agency has finalized a long-awaited set 00:04.433 --> 00:09.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% of regulations regarding proposed limits on fossil-fueled power plant emissions. 00:11.200 --> 00:13.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But these new rules could mean the end of the coal industry as a source 00:13.466 --> 00:16.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of electricity generated in the United States. 00:16.400 --> 00:18.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Stephanie Sy has more. 00:18.766 --> 00:21.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% STEPHANIE SY: Fossil fuel power plants account for more than one 00:21.266 --> 00:24.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% quarter of all greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S. 00:24.833 --> 00:29.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% The Biden administration is trying to crack down on the worst polluters, and that's the remaining 00:31.866 --> 00:35.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% coal-powered plants, which emit the most carbon dioxide. The new EPA rules require 00:37.400 --> 00:41.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% coal plants to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions by 90 percent by 2039, or close. 00:43.233 --> 00:48.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% There are about 200 coal-burning power plants and operations in the U.S. And, 00:48.133 --> 00:53.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% last year, coal-fired plants generated a little over 16 percent of the nation's electricity. 00:54.433 --> 00:56.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% For more on these rules and the reactions to them, 00:56.700 --> 01:01.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I'm joined by Bloomberg's Jennifer Dlouhy, who reports on energy and environmental issues. 01:03.000 --> 01:05.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Jennifer, thanks so much for joining the "NewsHour." 01:05.166 --> 01:09.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As you know, the coal industry has already been in decline for decades in this country. 01:09.633 --> 01:14.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Will these new rules make an enormous difference when it comes to climate change and public health? 01:16.900 --> 01:19.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JENNIFER DLOUHY, Bloomberg: Well, we're already expecting about half of the nation's capacity of 01:19.633 --> 01:24.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% coal-fired power to go offline by 2039, which is essentially a stoppage date in this rule as well. 01:27.533 --> 01:31.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So that's already happening. We're already seeing that decline. This rule, however, 01:31.700 --> 01:36.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% will encourage more coal plants to close. That's clearly an expectation here. And it will do that 01:39.000 --> 01:44.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% by basically saying that coal plants, if they want to keep running after January 1, 01:46.000 --> 01:49.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% 2039, will have to be capturing nearly all of their greenhouse gas emissions. 01:49.333 --> 01:52.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And they will have to start doing that, actually, by 2032, 01:52.133 --> 01:57.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% seven years earlier. Those systems are expensive. There are utility owners, 01:59.266 --> 02:02.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% power plant owners that may decide it's simply not wise to expend that much money trying 02:04.500 --> 02:08.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% to retrofit an existing coal-fired power plant to keep it operating into the 2040s. 02:08.600 --> 02:12.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% So this will absolutely hasten coal plant retirements that we're already 02:12.900 --> 02:17.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% seeing. And it will affect new natural gas plants that are coming online as well. 02:17.433 --> 02:20.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% STEPHANIE SY: You talked about the expense of meeting these standards. 02:20.266 --> 02:25.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Carbon sequestration is listed in the rules as one way that coal plants, for example, 02:27.533 --> 02:31.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% can reduce their emissions. But where is that technology in being able to meet those targets? 02:33.433 --> 02:36.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JENNIFER DLOUHY: Carbon capture and technology has been around for decades, 02:36.500 --> 02:41.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and yet it has not been deployed widely at a commercial scale, especially in the power sector. 02:42.966 --> 02:45.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that's really one of the big concerns that we're hearing from 02:45.933 --> 02:50.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% power plant owners and from utilities and grid operators right now, is that, 02:52.766 --> 02:55.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% frankly, carbon capture systems may not be ready to deploy at the scale this 02:55.700 --> 03:00.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% rule would require to keep coal plants and even large new gas plants online. 03:02.600 --> 03:04.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% STEPHANIE SY: So, besides coal, one of the new standards, and you mentioned this, 03:04.800 --> 03:09.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% requires that new gas-fired power plants control 90 percent of their carbon pollution. 03:12.233 --> 03:16.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% However, that doesn't apply to existing gas power plants. Why did the Biden decision -- the Biden 03:18.366 --> 03:22.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% administration ultimately decide not to have tougher standards on the gas industry? 03:24.433 --> 03:26.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JENNIFER DLOUHY: Yes, it really was a matter of pushing that decision off until later. 03:26.833 --> 03:31.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The administration looked at this rule and looked at some of the inevitable legal challenges to it, 03:33.566 --> 03:36.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the challenges in designing this measure, and they decided to put off the decision for existing gas 03:36.466 --> 03:41.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% plants and do it as part of a separate rule they're hoping to advance later this year. 03:43.333 --> 03:45.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% That is a big disappointment. There are environmentalists who are really 03:45.733 --> 03:50.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% concerned about getting at not just the new gas plants that will be built, 03:50.500 --> 03:55.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but a huge source of pollution coming from the existing fleet. And, for now, they're going to 03:57.666 --> 04:01.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have to wait at least another year for that to be completed, for that process to be finished. 04:03.233 --> 04:06.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% STEPHANIE SY: There are also critics of the new rules in the coal industry. And 04:06.100 --> 04:11.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to hear them talk about it, they say that, when you're really looking at extreme demand, say, 04:13.300 --> 04:16.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% on a very cold day or a very hot day, that the most reliable power is still fossil fuel power. 04:18.933 --> 04:23.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Is there validity to those concerns, as far as what we know about the reliability of renewables? 04:25.400 --> 04:26.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JENNIFER DLOUHY: Yes, there are very real concerns about 04:26.866 --> 04:29.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% reliability that are being voiced by those interests. 04:29.233 --> 04:33.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And the EPA, the administration tried to respond to some of those concerns. The rule has a safety 04:35.633 --> 04:39.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% valve, essentially, for demand emergencies. So when power spikes and you really need to have 04:41.666 --> 04:44.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% those coal plants, really gas plants running, they're going to make sure that they have the 04:44.466 --> 04:49.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% ability to keep running under this rule. So that is seen as addressing some of those concerns. 04:51.600 --> 04:55.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But you're right. This is coming at a time when power demand is expected to grow tremendously, 04:57.100 --> 05:00.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because we have got A.I. demand. We have data centers. We have electrification of our cars. All 05:03.133 --> 05:06.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% of that is going to be requiring more power from the grid. And there are many folks today wondering 05:08.133 --> 05:12.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% if they can get enough renewable zero-emission supplies on the grid in the next few years to 05:14.266 --> 05:18.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% offset what will be a decline of coal power that provides kind of an always-on power source today. 05:20.100 --> 05:24.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% STEPHANIE SY: And, quickly, Jennifer, do you believe that these rules will be enacted any 05:24.100 --> 05:27.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% time soon? Or are they going to face the same type of legal and political 05:27.866 --> 05:32.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% scrutiny that we have seen other big announcements on carbon emissions face? 05:32.066 --> 05:37.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JENNIFER DLOUHY: Yes, this is, frankly, the third attempt by the EPA under three 05:38.966 --> 05:42.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% different administrations to set these kind of limits on the power sector. 05:42.100 --> 05:47.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's difficult to do. It faces inevitable legal challenges. And, frankly, if another -- if 05:49.200 --> 05:52.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% President Trump is elected, this whole effort will probably be a target for elimination or 05:54.833 --> 05:58.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% at least a rollback. The next few years will be a challenge in both the court of -- in legal courts 06:01.833 --> 06:06.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and in the court of public opinion. And, really, we will see what happens with the election. 06:06.200 --> 06:11.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This is clearly an attempt by the EPA and even by the folks they were working for in 06:13.266 --> 06:16.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the industry to create a more durable rule that will stand and last the test of time. 06:18.533 --> 06:19.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% STEPHANIE SY: We will see. 06:19.900 --> 06:22.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Bloomberg's Jennifer Dlouhy, thank you so much. 06:22.500 --> 06:27.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JENNIFER DLOUHY: Thank you.