WEBVTT 00:02.736 --> 00:05.271 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening. I'm Amna Nawaz. 00:05.271 --> 00:06.306 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett. 00:06.306 --> 00:07.941 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% On the "News Hour" tonight: 00:07.941 --> 00:08.975 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DONALD TRUMP, President of the United# States: I hope there are others,## 00:08.975 --> 00:12.145 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because you can't let this happen to a country. 00:12.145 --> 00:15.348 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump predicts# more of his political opponents will face## 00:15.348 --> 00:20.553 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% prosecution after his Justice Department# indicts former FBI Director James Comey,## 00:20.553 --> 00:23.156 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who's already pledging to fight back. 00:23.156 --> 00:25.925 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JAMES COMEY, Former FBI Director:# I'm innocent, so let's have a trial. 00:25.925 --> 00:30.463 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin# Netanyahu divides global leaders at the## 00:30.463 --> 00:35.902 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% United Nations General Assembly, vowing# to finish the job against Hamas in Gaza. 00:35.902 --> 00:40.640 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And actress Scarlett Johansson# takes on a new role behind the camera for## 00:40.640 --> 00:45.245 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% her future film directorial# debut of "Eleanor the Great." 00:45.245 --> 00:50.383 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON, Director: I have to approach# my job with empathy and then let the audience,## 00:50.383 --> 00:54.954 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% let them have their own feelings# about the characters and what they do. 00:54.954 --> 03:09.556 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% (BREAK) 03:10.790 --> 03:12.392 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour." 03:12.392 --> 03:17.030 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Former FBI Director James Comey has# been indicted by a federal grand jury,## 03:17.030 --> 03:22.235 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% an extraordinary escalation in President Trump's# campaign to prosecute his political rivals. 03:22.235 --> 03:26.472 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Comey, a vocal critic of Mr. Trump,# was charged for what the Department of Justice## 03:26.472 --> 03:32.645 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% says is false testimony to Congress five years# ago around investigations he led into the 2016## 03:32.645 --> 03:37.850 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% campaign. Comey has long been at the center# of one of the president's biggest grievances,## 03:37.850 --> 03:42.622 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% investigations into Russian interference# and potential ties to Trump's campaign. 03:42.622 --> 03:47.260 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Our White House correspondent Liz# Landers, starts our coverage tonight. 03:47.260 --> 03:51.931 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: More fallout tonight following the# Justice Department's near-unprecedented felony## 03:51.931 --> 03:57.604 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% indictment against former FBI Director James# Comey. Comey was charged late Thursday on two## 03:57.604 --> 04:02.141 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% felony counts, obstruction of a congressional# proceeding and making a false statement. 04:02.141 --> 04:05.578 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:# It's a pretty easy case because, look, he lied. 04:05.578 --> 04:10.083 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: Mr. Trump, who is himself the# first former president convicted of a felony,## 04:10.083 --> 04:13.186 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% celebrated the move today on# his way to a golf tournament,## 04:13.186 --> 04:16.856 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and he insinuated the charges# won't stop with Comey. 04:16.856 --> 04:18.157 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DONALD TRUMP: Frankly, I hope there are others,## 04:18.157 --> 04:21.995 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because you can't let this happen# to a country. It's about .. 04:21.995 --> 04:28.568 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% really. It's not revenge. It's about justice. It's# also about the fact that you can't let this go on. 04:28.568 --> 04:32.138 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: A defiant Comey# responded to the indictment overnight. 04:32.138 --> 04:34.807 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JAMES COMEY, Former FBI Director: My family# and I have known for years that there are## 04:34.807 --> 04:40.713 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% costs to standing up to Donald Trump. But# we couldn't imagine ourselves living any## 04:40.713 --> 04:47.520 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% other way. We will not live on our knees, and# you shouldn't either. My heart is broken for## 04:47.520 --> 04:52.725 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Department of Justice, but I have great# confidence in the federal judicial system. 04:52.725 --> 04:55.528 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I'm innocent, so let's have a trial. 04:55.528 --> 05:00.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: The charges against Comey stem# from an appearance before the Senate in 2020,## 05:00.233 --> 05:04.704 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% where the prosecution alleges the# ex-director authorized a leak of## 05:04.704 --> 05:09.642 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% classified information to the media and# then knowingly told the Senate differently. 05:09.642 --> 05:12.945 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Chairman Grassley# asked you point blank -- quote -- "Have## 05:12.945 --> 05:17.116 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you ever been an anonymous source in# news reports about matters relating## 05:17.116 --> 05:19.919 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to the Trump investigation or# the Clinton investigation?" 05:19.919 --> 05:23.690 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You responded under oath -- quote -- "Never." 05:23.690 --> 05:28.328 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% He then asked you -- quote -- "Have you ever# authorized someone else at the FBI to be an## 05:28.328 --> 05:33.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% anonymous source in news reports about the Trump# investigation or the Clinton administration?" 05:33.933 --> 05:37.103 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You responded again under oath: "No." 05:37.103 --> 05:38.871 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JAMES COMEY: I can only speak to my testimony.## 05:38.871 --> 05:43.276 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I stand by what -- the testimony you# summarized that I gave in May of 2017. 05:43.276 --> 05:48.548 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: All of this comes just days after# President Trump called for Comey's prosecution,## 05:48.548 --> 05:52.652 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% along with others, writing directly# to his attorney general, Pam Bondi,## 05:52.652 --> 05:58.157 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% on social media -- quote -- "We can't delay# any longer. Justice must be served now." 05:58.157 --> 06:02.462 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Adding urgency, the Justice Department# faced a five-year statute of limitations## 06:02.462 --> 06:07.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for charges based on Comey's hearing# that would have expired next week. Trump## 06:07.100 --> 06:12.472 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% has long considered Comey a political enemy.# Since firing him months into his first term,## 06:12.472 --> 06:16.809 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the president has been locked in a bitter# feud with the former director for approving an## 06:16.809 --> 06:22.782 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% investigation into Russian election interference# and possible ties to Mr. Trump's campaign. 06:22.782 --> 06:24.951 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC):# Is there any cost to people## 06:24.951 --> 06:27.653 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% trying to destroy President Trump's presidency? 06:27.653 --> 06:29.589 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: Defenders of the# president took to the airwaves## 06:29.589 --> 06:32.258 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% yesterday, calling to charges long overdue. 06:32.258 --> 06:34.627 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% MIKE DAVIS, President, Article III# Project: I think this is the beginning## 06:34.627 --> 06:39.031 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of the accountability and certainly not# the end for these lawfare Democrats. 06:39.031 --> 06:43.903 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: But opponents have criticized how# the Comey case was brought. Lindsey Halligan,## 06:43.903 --> 06:49.275 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Trump's newly-installed U.S. attorney, took# the Comey indictment by herself to a grand jury## 06:49.275 --> 06:55.281 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because no other prosecutors would join her due to# the reservations about the strength of the case. 06:55.281 --> 06:59.852 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Previously one of Trump's personal attorneys,# Halligan has never prosecuted a case. Her## 06:59.852 --> 07:04.390 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% predecessor, Erik Siebert, was pushed out# of his job for not bringing mortgage fraud## 07:04.390 --> 07:09.429 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% charges against another of Trump's enemies,# New York Attorney General Letitia James. 07:09.429 --> 07:12.765 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Democrats called the Comey charges# part of a troubling pattern. 07:12.765 --> 07:14.567 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): These# charges are going to be dismissed.## 07:14.567 --> 07:19.205 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% James Comey will win in court. But# what it reflects is a broader attack## 07:19.205 --> 07:22.875 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% on the rule of law that should# frighten every single American. 07:22.875 --> 07:26.712 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: The indictment comes weeks after# Comey's daughter, Maurene, was fired from her## 07:26.712 --> 07:31.584 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% job as a federal prosecutor in New York. And# just minutes after the charges were filed,## 07:31.584 --> 07:35.755 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Comey's son-in-law resigned from his# post with the Justice Department. 07:35.755 --> 07:41.260 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Comey will be arraigned in early October. The# judge assigned to the case is a Biden appointee. 07:41.260 --> 07:44.197 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Liz Landers. 07:44.197 --> 07:47.834 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: For further insight into the legal# and political developments, we turn now to## 07:47.834 --> 07:52.705 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Barbara McQuade. She's a University of Michigan# law professor and former federal prosecutor. 07:52.705 --> 07:54.240 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Barb, welcome back to the "News Hour." 07:54.240 --> 07:56.242 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Let's just start with the charges here,## 07:56.242 --> 07:59.912 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% one count of making a false statement,# another of obstruction of congressional## 07:59.912 --> 08:07.253 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% proceeding. What would convince a grand jury# to indict on those? What could they have seen? 08:07.253 --> 08:09.422 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% BARBARA MCQUADE, Former U.S. Attorney: Well,# the standard, of course, at the grand jury## 08:09.422 --> 08:15.127 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% is simply probable cause. Based on the reporting,# it sounds like what they looked at were the grand## 08:15.127 --> 08:21.267 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% jury transcripts of both Jim Comey and then# perhaps Andrew McCabe, the deputy director. 08:21.267 --> 08:27.440 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And so if there are discrepancies between# those two things, that could establish,## 08:27.440 --> 08:32.011 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% generously, probable cause in the minds# of a grand jury. Now, keep in mind that,## 08:32.011 --> 08:34.313 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% at a grand jury, there's no defense attorney,## 08:34.313 --> 08:39.252 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% there's no cross-examination. And so it's just# the prosecutor presenting one side of the case. 08:39.252 --> 08:42.955 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: So probable cause is the bar# for a grand jury. Where's the bar for the## 08:42.955 --> 08:46.792 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% prosecutors? The allegation here is that# Comey lied to Congress about authorizing## 08:46.792 --> 08:52.765 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% someone to leak information to journalists.# What do prosecutors have to prove here? 08:52.765 --> 08:57.203 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% BARBARA MCQUADE: Well, at trial, they would# have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Jim## 08:57.203 --> 09:02.875 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Comey made a statement that was false, that the# statement was material, that is, determinative of## 09:02.875 --> 09:08.414 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% something under their investigation, and that he# then and there knew that the statement was false. 09:08.414 --> 09:13.052 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% At trial, they will have to prove it beyond# a reasonable doubt to a jury that decides## 09:13.052 --> 09:18.558 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% it unanimously. What's also interesting# is, although legally what's required at## 09:18.558 --> 09:23.829 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a grand jury stage is just probable cause,# the Justice Department's policy manual says## 09:23.829 --> 09:30.069 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a prosecutor should not initiate a prosecution# unless they believe the evidence is sufficient## 09:30.069 --> 09:35.274 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to obtain and sustain a conviction at trial.# That means guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. 09:35.274 --> 09:38.077 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And you have heard there# Jim Comey has said that he is innocent,## 09:38.077 --> 09:42.648 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that he welcomes a trial. What's# his defense likely to argue here?## 09:42.648 --> 09:47.153 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And is it possible that this# never even makes it to trial? 09:47.153 --> 09:47.853 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% BARBARA MCQUADE: I think so. 09:47.853 --> 09:51.991 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I mean, I think, before th.. 09:51.991 --> 09:57.663 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to dismiss. One grounds for a motion to dismiss# would be selective prosecution. That means that## 09:57.663 --> 10:02.635 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a person was targeted not because of some# legitimate law enforcement objective, but## 10:02.635 --> 10:08.140 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because of some arbitrary or improper objective,# in this case, perhaps political considerations. 10:08.140 --> 10:12.812 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And Donald Trump's posts on social media# would certainly be evidence to document## 10:12.812 --> 10:16.949 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that sort of a thing. It could also# be an argument that the case should## 10:16.949 --> 10:22.154 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% be dismissed on the grounds of due process# violations as to his right to a fair trial. 10:22.154 --> 10:26.626 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% When you have Donald Trump telling the world, the# president of the United States, that he lied or## 10:26.626 --> 10:31.931 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that he's a bad person, everybody's going to hear# that, and it potentially taints the jury pool. 10:31.931 --> 10:37.670 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But then, ultimately, if this case does go to# trial, that's where Jim Comey will attack the## 10:37.670 --> 10:42.008 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% evidence that the government puts# in, will perhaps likely, I think,## 10:42.008 --> 10:46.812 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% testify on his own behalf and deny the charges.# And then it will be up to a jury to decide## 10:46.812 --> 10:51.350 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% whether the government has met its burden# of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. 10:51.350 --> 10:55.021 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Barb, as you heard Liz Landers'# report there, the fact that only attorney## 10:55.021 --> 10:59.759 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Lindsey Halligan's name is on the indictment# that none of the prosecutors in her office## 10:59.759 --> 11:05.831 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% signed off on this, how unusual is that? And# what does that say to you about this case? 11:05.831 --> 11:07.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% BARBARA MCQUADE: It's extraordinary. 11:07.533 --> 11:12.238 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I served as an assistant U.S. attorney for# 12 years and signed many indictments in.. 11:12.238 --> 11:17.443 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% capacity. When I served as U.S. attorney# for eight years, I signed exactly zero,## 11:17.443 --> 11:21.914 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because it is the job of the line prosecutor to# sign those indictments. The fact that she was## 11:21.914 --> 11:25.851 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the one who signed the indictment, and the only# one, and that she was the one and the only one## 11:25.851 --> 11:31.590 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% who presented this case to the grand jury after# four days on the job is truly extraordinary. 11:31.590 --> 11:37.029 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% What it says to me is that nobody else would touch# this case with a 10-foot pole. Why? Because they## 11:37.029 --> 11:41.534 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% don't believe in the case, and they believe# that they could perhaps have ethical concerns## 11:41.534 --> 11:46.305 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and grievances against them, even risking their# own law licenses if they were to participate. 11:46.305 --> 11:49.341 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And let's just revisit that# timeline, as Liz reported it out too. 11:49.341 --> 11:52.478 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% This all followed, as you mentioned,# President Trump publicly telling his## 11:52.478 --> 11:56.315 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% attorney general to prosecute some of his# critics, including Comey. The president## 11:56.315 --> 12:00.152 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% said today he hopes that there are more# people who could be prosecuted ahead. 12:00.152 --> 12:03.923 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Barb, big picture, what is to stop# President Trump here from using the## 12:03.923 --> 12:09.528 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Department of Justice as his own personal law# firm to settle scores and suppress critics? 12:09.528 --> 12:14.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% BARBARA MCQUADE: Well, what's interesting is# that, since Watergate, there have been norms that## 12:14.233 --> 12:20.072 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% prohibit conversations and communications between# the White House and the Department of Justice.## 12:20.072 --> 12:26.112 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% There have been policies that say prosecution# should not be used for political purposes. 12:26.712 --> 12:31.450 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But President Trump has busted through all of# those norms and now appears to be directing## 12:31.450 --> 12:36.322 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% his Department of Justice to do his bidding. In# many ways, he may feel empowered by the decision## 12:36.322 --> 12:41.527 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of the Supreme Court last summer that said he# personally cannot be held criminally liable## 12:41.527 --> 12:45.765 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for acts that are conducted within the scope# of his constitutional duties as president. 12:45.765 --> 12:52.071 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I think these qualify. So, what really is# left is individual cases of acquittals if## 12:52.071 --> 12:57.409 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% there is no evidence to prove these cases# or impeachment by the Congress. And that's## 12:57.409 --> 13:01.847 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% something that we have seen Congress loathe# to do in recent years to impeach and then## 13:01.847 --> 13:05.251 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% convict a member of their own party.# But that is the recourse that we have. 13:05.251 --> 13:08.387 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: That's former federal prosecutor# Barbara McQuade joining us tonight. 13:08.387 --> 13:11.991 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Barb, thank you for your time.# Always good to speak with you. 13:11.991 --> 13:14.059 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% BARBARA MCQUADE: Thanks. 13:14.059 --> 13:18.164 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: For more on the indictment and# its implications, we're joined now by Ty Cobb.## 13:18.164 --> 13:21.934 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% He was a White House attorney in the first# Trump administration, managing the response## 13:21.934 --> 13:27.039 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to the special counsel Robert Mueller's probe# into alleged Russian election interference. 13:27.039 --> 13:28.207 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Thanks for being with us. 13:28.207 --> 13:29.809 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% TY COBB, Former White House Special Counsel:# My ple.. 13:29.809 --> 13:33.212 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And I want to start with your# reaction to the indictment of form.. 13:33.212 --> 13:39.685 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Director James Comey and to the way these charges# were brought, both the substance and the process. 13:39.685 --> 13:43.522 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% TY COBB: So I think the process is# more important than the substance. 13:46.625 --> 14:00.406 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% This process was worse than unusual. It was# wholly un-American and really despicable in the## 14:00.406 --> 14:08.147 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% way it was done. America's long been# a country where evenhanded justice## 14:08.147 --> 14:14.153 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% has been the standard and the goal.# And that's all been abandoned under## 14:14.153 --> 14:20.025 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this president and his willing# assistant attorney general. 14:20.793 --> 14:29.501 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Keep in mind that career prosecutors, including# a seasoned prosecutor of Trump's own appointment## 14:29.501 --> 14:32.872 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as the U.S. attorney in the# Eastern District OF Virginia,## 14:32.872 --> 14:40.713 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% had concluded at the end of a long process, along# with the FBI, that there were -- there was just## 14:40.713 --> 14:46.185 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% insufficient evidence with which to proceed# against the former FBI director, Mr. Comey. 14:47.353 --> 14:55.127 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% In response, Trump fired that prosecutor,# according to him -- the prosecutor says he## 14:55.127 --> 15:04.703 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% resigned -- and ordered, in no uncertain terms,# his attorney general to punish his enemies, not## 15:04.703 --> 15:15.047 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% just Mr. Comey, but Senator Schiff and Attorney# General Letitia James, saying that these people## 15:15.047 --> 15:25.457 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% had tortured him, he'd been wronged badly, and it# was time for -- time for them to be punished now. 15:25.991 --> 15:34.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And that historically is not the way America# works. Now, that's the way Allende's Chile worked,## 15:34.333 --> 15:40.639 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Stalin's Russia worked, Hitler's Germany worked,# but it's not the way America works. It's not## 15:40.639 --> 15:47.479 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the role of an attorney general to do what the# president orders him to do in criminal matters. 15:48.480 --> 15:52.251 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Attorney generals with character,# historically, Elliot Richardson,## 15:52.251 --> 15:57.022 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and then his deputy William Ruckelshaus, had# the appropriate response when President Nixon## 15:57.022 --> 16:03.662 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% tried to strong-arm them into firing the# then-independent counsel, Archibald Cox,## 16:03.662 --> 16:12.738 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and they said no and were forced to resign.# They honored their oath to the Constitution. 16:13.505 --> 16:19.278 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% As we saw, sadly, at the great hall of# justice shortly after Trump's inauguration,## 16:19.278 --> 16:25.751 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% when Pam Bondi took over, she pledged the fealty# of herself and her department to the president,## 16:25.751 --> 16:29.822 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% rather than the Constitution. And# that, sadly, is the way this is gone. 16:29.822 --> 16:37.997 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So I don't think this can be reported as# one or two degrees of standard deviation## 16:37.997 --> 16:42.401 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% from the norm. This is a wholesale# 180 from the norms of what## 16:43.602 --> 16:48.474 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% made America different from# Third World dictatorships,## 16:48.474 --> 16:54.013 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% authoritarian regimes and tyranny. I think this# case could well be dismissed because of vindictive## 16:54.013 --> 16:58.650 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% prosecution standards or selective prosecution# standards or prosecutorial misconduct standards. 16:58.650 --> 17:03.589 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: How do you assess the way President# Trump in his second term has asserted control over## 17:03.589 --> 17:09.261 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Justice Department and many of the prosecutors# who work for it, as compared to the first term? 17:09.261 --> 17:13.999 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% TY COBB: Well, he appointed people who# were clearly slavishly devoted to him and## 17:13.999 --> 17:19.371 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% willing to break any ethical barriers# or legal barriers to do his bidding. 17:20.072 --> 17:26.812 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% That's much different than the first time, where# Senator Sessions was the first attorney general## 17:26.812 --> 17:37.423 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and Bill Barr is his successor. People can quarrel# with some of their decisions and some of their## 17:39.525 --> 17:44.630 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% policies, but I don't think they can quarrel# about the fact that they were men who had devoted## 17:44.630 --> 17:50.369 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% themselves to public service over a long period# of time and cared greatly about their country. 17:50.969 --> 17:56.809 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Here, what we have is people who care less# about their country and certainly less about## 17:56.809 --> 18:02.948 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Constitution and more about their standing# with the president, whose crippling narcissism## 18:02.948 --> 18:08.854 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% dictates his every whim, including this vengeance# tirade that he's on in the Eastern District. 18:08.854 --> 18:11.523 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: You worked closely# with President Trump, as we mentioned,## 18:11.523 --> 18:17.262 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% when he pushed for something that was clearly# outside of the bounds of established norms.## 18:17.262 --> 18:20.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% How did those conversations# typically unfold in the White House? 18:20.866 --> 18:24.636 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% TY COBB: Well, I can't really go# into my direct interactions with## 18:24.636 --> 18:27.773 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the president on legal matters.# That would be inappropriate. 18:27.773 --> 18:34.813 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But I can say that the difference between# the people that were in the White House## 18:34.813 --> 18:41.587 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% when I was there and what appears to# be going on now is, when he wanted to## 18:41.587 --> 18:48.727 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% take a particular course of action, if it# wasn't appropriate or if it was unwise,## 18:50.395 --> 18:55.134 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% unethical or wrong, there were# people who would say that to him. 18:55.134 --> 19:01.039 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% He had very strong, capable people# who were experienced in government,## 19:01.039 --> 19:08.480 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% knew government much better than he did,# and acted as an inappropriate restraint## 19:08.480 --> 19:15.053 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% when he suggested something that they perceived# as perhaps out of bounds or inappropriate. I think## 19:15.053 --> 19:27.599 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% now what you have is, whatever his narcissistic# whim may be, vengeance, power, war crimes,## 19:27.599 --> 19:32.971 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% whatever, people just say yes. You know, how# quickly can we get that done for you, sir? 19:32.971 --> 19:37.342 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So, I think that's a much different# circumstance than what we see now. 19:37.342 --> 19:39.211 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: I have to ask,# did you feel this way about the## 19:39.211 --> 19:42.881 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% president when you worked for him, or# has there been a fundamental change? 19:42.881 --> 19:47.920 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% TY COBB: No, I was never a Trump supporter.# I never voted for Trump. I took the position## 19:47.920 --> 19:54.426 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because I was asked to serve the country and the# president at the time in a matter where I thought,## 19:54.960 --> 19:59.531 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because of my strong relationship# and long friendship with Bob Mueller,## 19:59.531 --> 20:06.572 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% together, we could find a path that# would not divide the country through## 20:06.572 --> 20:11.410 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% what was going to be a difficult time.# And I think we got that done, largely. 20:12.244 --> 20:20.519 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But, no, I was not an ideological match for the# president, and I was not a personal supporter. But## 20:21.453 --> 20:25.757 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I'm very concerned. And, frankly, I don't# understand how anybody who cares about the## 20:25.757 --> 20:31.263 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% country could not be concerned about# the attacks on the rule of law, which## 20:31.263 --> 20:38.570 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% has been so diminished now in our country,# and to the point that it's a danger to not## 20:38.570 --> 20:44.643 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% just Trump's enemies, but to all of# us, as he picks winners and losers. 20:44.643 --> 20:50.082 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I mean, Tom Homan went to McDonald's today and# presumably spent some of the cash that he got## 20:50.082 --> 20:57.689 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% as a bribe, and there are no consequences for# that. And even the White House press secretary## 20:57.689 --> 21:02.027 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% lies on his behalf, insisting he didn't take the# money, even though he's on tape taking the money. 21:03.195 --> 21:07.599 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, instead, James Comey is preparing# for his arraignment. And that, I think,## 21:07.599 --> 21:11.169 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is -- I think that people should# understand how wrong that is. 21:11.169 --> 21:15.607 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: The president, as we know,# prizes personal loyalty above all. What's## 21:15.607 --> 21:21.413 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the red line that even loyalists should not# cross, and how should they defend that boundary? 21:21.413 --> 21:24.850 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% TY COBB: Well, I think the# red line is really established## 21:25.450 --> 21:29.187 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% for many of these people# by the oath that they take. 21:29.187 --> 21:33.825 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Not everybody takes an oath to be# federal employee, but, certainly,## 21:33.825 --> 21:37.229 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the attorney general, FBI agents, prosecutors,## 21:38.964 --> 21:45.504 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Cabinet officials and others have taken an oath to# either defend and protect or preserve and defend## 21:45.504 --> 21:53.812 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Constitution. And that should be their# line. And the Constitution requires a## 21:53.812 --> 21:58.250 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% loyalty to a set of principles that have# been abandoned by this administration. 21:58.250 --> 22:01.920 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Ty Cobb, thank you for your# perspectives and for your time this evening. 22:01.920 --> 22:09.428 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% TY COBB: My pleasure. Good luck. Thank you. 22:09.428 --> 22:15.367 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT:## 22:15.367 --> 22:20.572 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% In New York today, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin# Netanyahu addressed the U.N. General Assembly,## 22:20.572 --> 22:24.142 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% touting his country's operations# against Iran and its proxies in## 22:24.142 --> 22:31.750 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Middle East and vowing to press ahead# with Israel's military offensive in Gaza. 22:31.750 --> 22:33.352 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% (CHEERING) MAN: Please, order in the hall. 22:33.352 --> 22:37.989 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: As dozens of delegates walked# out in protest just before he st.. 22:37.989 --> 22:43.128 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu# delivered a defiant speech at the United Nations. 22:43.128 --> 22:44.229 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, Israeli Prime# Minister: That is why Israel must## 22:44.229 --> 22:49.101 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% finish the job. That is why we# want to do so as f.. 22:49.101 --> 22:53.405 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: A speech that at times included# visual aids, placards, maps and charts... 22:53.405 --> 22:54.606 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: Let's do a pop quiz. 22:54.606 --> 22:58.310 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: ... in defense of Israel's# intensifying.. 22:58.310 --> 23:00.879 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: But, regrettably,## 23:00.879 --> 23:09.755 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% many leaders who are represented in this# hall, they send a very different message. 23:09.755 --> 23:12.391 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: He also delivered# a sharp rebuke to nations that## 23:12.391 --> 23:14.459 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% have acknowledged a Palestinian state. 23:14.459 --> 23:19.131 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: Your disgraceful decision# will encourage terrorism against Jews and## 23:19.131 --> 23:23.034 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% against innocent people everywhere.# President Trump understands better## 23:23.034 --> 23:29.007 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% than any other leader that Israel# and America face a common threat. 23:29.007 --> 23:31.510 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: That's as President# Donald Trump today said he was close## 23:31.510 --> 23:35.881 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to forging a deal to end the war# in Gaza, offering few details. 23:35.881 --> 23:38.950 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:# It's looking like we have a deal on Gaza. And## 23:38.950 --> 23:43.822 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% we will let you know. I think it's a deal that# will get the hostages back. It's going to be a## 23:43.822 --> 23:49.694 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% deal that will end the war. It's going to# be a deal with -- it's going to be peace. 23:49.694 --> 23:50.929 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% It's not going to happen. 23:50.929 --> 23:52.864 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: It follows the# president's comments yesterda.. 23:52.864 --> 23:56.468 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% vowing he won't allow Israel# to annex the West Bank. 23:56.468 --> 23:59.438 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: For decades,# the very ideal peace between... 23:59.438 --> 24:00.872 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: In an unprecedented move,## 24:00.872 --> 24:05.510 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Israeli military today broadcast# Netanyahu's U.N. speech into Gaza. 24:05.510 --> 24:08.480 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: I have surrounded# Gaza with massive loudspeakers in the## 24:08.480 --> 24:12.951 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% hope that our dear hostages will hear my message. 24:12.951 --> 24:20.892 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, in Gaza City today, the# chaotic aftermath of another Israeli airstrike. 24:20.892 --> 24:21.993 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% RAHMA JAROUANA, Sister Killed in Airstrike# (through translator): They said they were going## 24:21.993 --> 24:28.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to the south. Then we heard they were bombed.# They.. 24:28.233 --> 24:34.773 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% moving from place to place. What is our# fault in all this? What have we done? 24:34.773 --> 24:38.410 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Hope for an end to# the war still nowhere in sight. 24:39.110 --> 24:43.448 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Also today, the U.S. Supreme Court is letting# the Trump administration move forward with## 24:43.448 --> 24:49.120 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% freezing $4 billion in foreign aid that had been# allocated by Congress. Mr. Trump said last month## 24:49.120 --> 24:53.825 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that he would not spend the money and instead# invoked something called a pocket rescission.## 24:53.825 --> 24:59.364 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% That's a rarely used maneuver that allows Mr.# Trump to bypass Congress to hold up the funds. 24:59.364 --> 25:03.668 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Today's ruling is just the latest legal# victory for the Trump administration and,## 25:03.668 --> 25:09.608 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in particular, the president's broader push# to have greater control over federal spending. 25:09.608 --> 25:14.312 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% A wide range of industries are bracing for# the latest round of President Trump's tariffs,## 25:14.312 --> 25:18.550 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% which are set to take effect next week.# Major pharmaceutical companies are hoping## 25:18.550 --> 25:23.755 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to avoid the worst of his planned 100# percent tariffs on imported medicine.## 25:23.755 --> 25:27.692 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Officials say there are carve-outs for# companies that are already building plants## 25:27.692 --> 25:31.997 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in the U.S. and for countries who already# have deals with the Trump administration. 25:31.997 --> 25:37.302 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% President Trump also announced tariffs of 50# percent on kitchen cabinets, 30 percent on## 25:37.903 --> 25:44.075 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% upholstered furniture, and 25 percent on# heavy trucks, all set to kick in on Wednesday. 25:44.075 --> 25:47.679 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Federal officials say they have removed# an immigration officer from his current## 25:47.679 --> 25:51.516 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% duties after an altercation at# a Manhattan immigration court.## 25:51.516 --> 25:55.687 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Video provided by ProPublica shows the# officer shoving an Ecuadorian woman to## 25:55.687 --> 26:00.892 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the ground in front of her crying children# after her husband was arrested. She had## 26:00.892 --> 26:05.030 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% been pleading with him in Spanish, saying at# one point: "You don't care about anything." 26:05.030 --> 26:07.832 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In a statement today, the Department# of Homeland Security said:## 26:07.832 --> 26:12.637 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% "The officer's conduct is unacceptable# and beneath the men and women of ICE." 26:12.637 --> 26:15.907 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The incident is a rare example of# the Trump administration holding## 26:15.907 --> 26:19.044 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ICE officers accountable for their behavior. 26:19.044 --> 26:23.114 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Sinclair Broadcasting and Nexstar are# ending their blackouts of Jimmy Kimmel's## 26:23.114 --> 26:27.919 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% late-night program. That means the show# is set to air across all ABC affiliates## 26:27.919 --> 26:32.891 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% across the nation tonight. The two major# broadcast owners had continued preempting## 26:32.891 --> 26:37.596 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Kimmel's program even after Disney ended# its suspension earlier this week. Disney## 26:37.596 --> 26:41.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% had suspended Kimmel last week for his# comments following Charlie Kirk's murder. 26:41.833 --> 26:45.270 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% In a statement today, Sinclair wrote# -- quote -- "We take seriously our## 26:45.270 --> 26:49.274 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% responsibility to provide programming that# serves the interests of our communities,## 26:49.274 --> 26:53.912 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% while also honoring our obligations# to air national network programming." 26:53.912 --> 26:57.983 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Democratic Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill is# calling for an investigation into the release## 26:57.983 --> 27:03.021 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of her unredacted military service records.# The New York -- the New Jersey Democrat is## 27:03.021 --> 27:07.192 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% running for governor against Republican Jack# Ciattarelli. The documents came to light## 27:07.192 --> 27:12.564 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% after an ally of Ciattarelli filed a Freedom of# Information Act request for her military file. 27:12.564 --> 27:17.369 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The National Archives apologized to Sherrill# after releasing documents that included## 27:17.369 --> 27:22.173 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% personal information like her Social Security# number and home address. An official with her## 27:22.173 --> 27:26.811 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% campaign says the Trump administration may# have violated federal law with the release. 27:26.811 --> 27:29.447 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% On Wall Street today, stocks closed higher to end## 27:29.447 --> 27:33.351 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the week. The Dow Jones industrial# average gained roughly 300 points.## 27:33.351 --> 27:39.591 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The Nasdaq added around 100 points and the# S&P 500 snapped a three-day losing streak. 27:39.591 --> 27:45.830 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Activist and fugitive Assata Shakur has died.# She was born Joanne Chesimard and in her 20s## 27:45.830 --> 27:50.869 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% joined the Black Panther Party and later# the Black Liberation Army. In the 1970s,## 27:50.869 --> 27:54.239 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% she was given a life sentence for# the fatal shooting of a New Jersey## 27:54.239 --> 27:59.210 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% State Trooper. She maintained her innocence# and escaped from prison, fleeing to Cuba,## 27:59.210 --> 28:02.247 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% where she lived under political# asylum for the rest of her life. 28:02.247 --> 28:07.385 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Here she is in 1998 speaking# to NBC News from Havana. 28:07.385 --> 28:10.488 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ASSATA SHAKUR, Activist and Fugitive: I# never received justice, and I escaped,## 28:10.488 --> 28:16.928 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because I was afraid for my life, and, B, because# I knew that I would never receive justice. 28:16.928 --> 28:19.998 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: To her supporters,# Shakur was a symbol of resistance.## 28:19.998 --> 28:23.835 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% She was also considered a godmother# to the late rapper Tupac Shakur. 28:23.835 --> 28:28.807 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But, to law enforcement, she was one of the# country's most notorious fugitives. In 2013,## 28:28.807 --> 28:34.012 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% she became the first woman ever on the FBI's# most wanted list. Cuban officials said she## 28:34.012 --> 28:39.184 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% died of health conditions and advanced# age. Assata Shakur was 78 years old. 28:39.184 --> 28:43.822 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And Robert Barnett, the Washington lawyer# and power broker who helped shape book deals,## 28:43.822 --> 28:47.125 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% careers and contracts for some of# the nation's most prominent figures,## 28:47.125 --> 28:51.596 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% has died. Barnett built a reputation as# one of the capital's premier dealmakers,## 28:51.596 --> 28:56.634 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% advising corporations, journalists and# politicians across the political spectrum. 28:56.634 --> 29:00.238 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% He was behind multimillion-dollar# publishing agreements for the Obamas,## 29:00.238 --> 29:05.844 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Clintons and George W. Bush and his wife,# among many others. Barnett was married to## 29:05.844 --> 29:11.983 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% longtime CBS News correspondent Rita Braver, who# confirmed his death, but did not give a cause. 29:11.983 --> 29:16.387 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And he was also a friend to many of us here# at the "News Hour," generous with his advice,## 29:16.387 --> 29:22.160 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% quick with his wit, and always supportive# of our work. Bob Barnett was 79 years old. 29:22.160 --> 29:25.830 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Still to come on the "News Hour":# ahead of consequential state elections,## 29:25.830 --> 29:30.568 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% how the Trump administration is trying to change# the way people vote; David Brooks and Jonathan## 29:30.568 --> 29:36.307 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Capehart weigh in on Comey's indictment and# the upending of Justice Department norms;## 29:36.307 --> 29:44.249 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% plus, Scarlett Johansson discusses# her feature film directorial debut. 29:49.687 --> 30:01.766 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: In recent days, the Justice# Department has sued eight states to compel## 30:01.766 --> 30:05.670 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% them to share their voter registration# lists with the federal government. Those## 30:05.670 --> 30:10.642 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% lists include voters' personal data, like# dates of birth and Social Security numbers.## 30:10.642 --> 30:15.446 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% State officials oppose the move because of# concerns about how the information will be used. 30:15.446 --> 30:21.186 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% That comes as President Trump continues to target# election systems, including mail-in ballots. 30:21.186 --> 30:24.956 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Liz Landers is back now with a closer look. 30:24.956 --> 30:29.427 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: Trump's targeting of mail-in# voting is just one action he's been critical of. 30:29.427 --> 30:33.031 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% To discuss more, I'm joined by David# Becker, the executive director of the## 30:33.031 --> 30:37.669 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% nonpartisan Nonprofit Center for# Election Innovation and Research. 30:37.669 --> 30:39.604 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% David, thank you so much for joining us. 30:39.604 --> 30:45.043 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The Department of Justice announced that they are# suing after the state refused to turn over vote.. 30:45.043 --> 30:50.315 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% registration lists. The Department of Justice# sent us a statement and said in part that Congress## 30:50.315 --> 30:54.953 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% gave the Justice Department authority under# statutes, and they list out a few of these,## 30:54.953 --> 30:58.790 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to ensure that states have proper voter# registration procedures and programs## 30:58.790 --> 31:05.530 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to maintain clean voter rolls containing# only eligible voters in federal elections. 31:05.530 --> 31:10.068 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Do the states have the ability to# refuse to send this information over? 31:10.068 --> 31:10.735 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BECKER, Executive Director, Center for# Election Innovation and Research: So, first of## 31:10.735 --> 31:14.072 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% all, the National Voter .. 31:14.072 --> 31:18.009 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% which are two of the statutes that they# cite, do in fact require and authorize the## 31:18.009 --> 31:23.348 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% states to engage in list maintenance, voter list# maintenance, to keep their voter lists up to date. 31:23.348 --> 31:28.386 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But those responsibilities reside with the states# and the states alone. What the Justice Department## 31:28.386 --> 31:31.923 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% can do -- and I know this because I worked# for seven years as a lawyer in the Justice## 31:31.923 --> 31:36.728 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Department enforcing these statutes -- is, they# can say to states, you have to have a program## 31:36.728 --> 31:41.532 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that does these things, that removes voters who# have died, removes voters who have moved away. 31:41.532 --> 31:46.638 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But it doesn't enable the Justice Department# to seize that authority from the states and## 31:46.638 --> 31:51.109 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% do it for the states when they don't want# to. Another big factor here is that a lot## 31:51.109 --> 31:54.712 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of this data is highly sensitive,# data like driver's license numbers,## 31:54.712 --> 31:59.183 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Social Security numbers and dates of birth,# which are the holy trinity of identity theft. 31:59.183 --> 32:04.789 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And states have very significant regulations# to protect that data from disclosure. Remember,## 32:04.789 --> 32:10.561 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the federal government, it was revealed, just# uploaded a huge amount of data from the Social## 32:10.561 --> 32:18.636 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Security database to a vulnerable public cloud# server. So the states have a very good reason to## 32:18.636 --> 32:23.374 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% want to protect their data and get more answers# from the DOJ that the DOJ has not provided. 32:23.374 --> 32:25.843 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It has not been clear what they're# going to do with this data,## 32:25.843 --> 32:29.280 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% how they're going to store this data,# who's going to have access to this data. 32:29.280 --> 32:32.650 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: In a separate action that# the Department of Justice is taking,## 32:32.650 --> 32:37.989 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% they sent a request back in August to# access voting machines, specifically## 32:37.989 --> 32:43.661 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Dominion Voting Systems that were used in the# 2020 election in two counties in Missouri. 32:43.661 --> 32:48.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Neither of these county election officials# have complied to turn over these voting## 32:48.566 --> 32:52.370 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% machines. Does the Department# of Justice have input on voting## 32:52.370 --> 32:57.675 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% machines and maintaining the actual# physical infrastructure for voting? 32:57.675 --> 33:01.746 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BECKER: With rare exception, the DOJ has# absolutely no authority over voting machines.## 33:01.746 --> 33:05.583 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% They might have some authority to ensure# that the voting process is accessible to,## 33:05.583 --> 33:07.752 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% for instance, people with disabilities or people## 33:07.752 --> 33:10.888 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% who don't speak English very well.# That's in the Voting Rights Act. 33:10.888 --> 33:15.827 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But, in general, they have no authority to# seize or inspect voting machines in any way.## 33:15.827 --> 33:19.931 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And the way that this was done in states# like Missouri -- there's also allegations## 33:19.931 --> 33:24.402 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% this was done in Colorado -- is, it appears# they went through some kind of third party## 33:24.402 --> 33:29.107 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to try to twist arms with local election# officials and get access to those devices. 33:29.107 --> 33:33.277 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% It's even more troubling because there# is federal law that requires these local## 33:33.277 --> 33:37.515 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% election officials to maintain custody.# Chain of custody is very important with## 33:37.515 --> 33:41.753 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% voting machines. And if they -- if# that chain of custody is destroyed,## 33:41.753 --> 33:44.789 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it could render those machines# unusable in the next election. 33:44.789 --> 33:48.393 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So there's no clear indication,# again, what the DOJ is doing,## 33:48.393 --> 33:51.662 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% whether it has any competence# whatsoever to look at voting machines,## 33:51.662 --> 33:54.932 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and absolutely no federal statute# that authorizes them to do that. 33:54.932 --> 33:56.868 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: I want to play for# you a sound bite from President## 33:56.868 --> 34:00.905 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Trump last month talking about# mail-in ballots. Let's listen. 34:00.905 --> 34:04.008 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:# Mail-in ballots are corrupt. Mail-in ballots,## 34:04.008 --> 34:10.782 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you can never have a real democracy with# mail-in ballots. And we, as a Republican Party,## 34:10.782 --> 34:15.186 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% are going to do everything possible# that we get rid of mail-in ballots. 34:15.186 --> 34:17.288 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: The president has repeatedly attacked## 34:17.288 --> 34:21.993 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% mail-in ballots and that form of# voting. Are mail-in ballots secure? 34:21.993 --> 34:23.428 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BECKER: Well, we have had mail-in ballots,## 34:23.428 --> 34:27.765 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% mail-in voting, since at least the# Civil War, so for over 150 years. 34:27.765 --> 34:32.870 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, in fact, the states that started making it# more popular, extending it to more people often## 34:32.870 --> 34:39.677 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% tended to be redder states, states like Arizona,# Utah, who were thinking about voters who might be## 34:39.677 --> 34:45.183 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% older, who might be in rural areas, who needed# to find ways to vote. It's absolutely secure.## 34:45.183 --> 34:50.088 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Every state has multiple protections in place# on the voter registration side, once the ballots## 34:50.088 --> 34:54.325 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% come back in, to check to see the signatures# are matching and the right person is voting. 34:54.325 --> 34:57.428 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, also, if anyone ever tried to# vote a ballot there wasn't theirs,## 34:57.428 --> 34:59.931 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% it's likely they're going to -- that# person's going to show up. And so## 34:59.931 --> 35:03.835 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% there will be protections in place# to make sure mail voting is secure. 35:03.835 --> 35:05.269 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: To the point# that you were just making,## 35:05.269 --> 35:09.207 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% there are 36 states that allow# no-excuse absentee voting,## 35:09.207 --> 35:14.812 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% including several that are almost entirely# vote-by-mail. President Trump won 20 of those. 35:14.812 --> 35:19.016 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Does the president have the power# to get rid of this kind of voting? 35:19.016 --> 35:23.521 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BECKER: No, the founders were very wise# when they constructed the Constitution. Remember,## 35:23.521 --> 35:29.026 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% they had just defeated a tyrant in England and# achieved their freedom here in the United States. 35:29.026 --> 35:32.864 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And one of the things they were really# worried about was that a future despot,## 35:32.864 --> 35:36.334 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a future authoritarian would try# to seize power through some kind## 35:36.334 --> 35:40.571 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of populism or something like that. And so# they decentralized the running of elections## 35:40.571 --> 35:44.408 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% through something called the Elections Clause# of the Constitution, which says that the time,## 35:44.408 --> 35:48.646 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% place and manner of elections is# regulated by the state legislatures. 35:48.646 --> 35:53.584 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Congress can also regulate it, of course, Congress# being made up by the states. But the White House,## 35:53.584 --> 35:57.822 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the president, plays absolutely no role on# elections. And if the president wants to change## 35:57.822 --> 36:02.393 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% anything with regard to federal elections, he,# of course, has to go through Congress to do that. 36:02.393 --> 36:03.828 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% LIZ LANDERS: David Becker, thank you so much. 36:03.828 --> 36:10.801 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BECKER: Thank you, Liz. 36:10.801 --> 36:17.341 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT:## 36:17.341 --> 36:22.413 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Former FBI Director James Comey's indictment# and a looming government shutdown. 36:22.413 --> 36:25.183 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Much to discuss with their friends# Brooks and Capehart. That's New## 36:25.183 --> 36:29.187 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% York Times columnist David Brooks# and Jonathan Capehart of MSNBC. 36:29.187 --> 36:29.921 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's great to see you both. 36:29.921 --> 36:34.559 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So, David, President Donald .. 36:34.559 --> 36:36.961 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%   on the job for just four days when she went before## 36:36.961 --> 36:42.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a grand jury seeking this extraordinary,# unprecedented indictment of James Comey. 36:42.233 --> 36:46.404 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% How do you view the charges themselves# and the process that led to these charges? 36:46.404 --> 36:49.106 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: I view it the way every# other sentient human being views it,## 36:49.106 --> 36:52.243 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as an erosion of our democracy, a blatant one. 36:52.243 --> 36:55.279 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% You want your prosecutors to ask# themselves one question -- well,## 36:55.279 --> 36:59.116 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% two. Did this person commit a crime# and can we prove it? And, clearly,## 36:59.116 --> 37:03.120 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that's not the way you can think if you're if# the Justice Department these days. The only## 37:03.120 --> 37:06.958 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% question you need -- have to ask yourself# is, does the president want me to do this? 37:06.958 --> 37:12.797 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And that's just a violation of our basic# fundamental principles. And so I wish I## 37:12.797 --> 37:17.535 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% had something sophisticated to say, but when# you look at what the actual indictment is,## 37:17.535 --> 37:21.372 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it claims that he knew that# somebody else did some leak. 37:21.372 --> 37:26.944 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Well, it's so flimsy, you can see why they have# been deciding not to prosecute this case over## 37:26.944 --> 37:31.349 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and over and over again. And to do it a week# before the term runs out, with the prosecutors## 37:31.349 --> 37:37.088 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% never prosecuted anything before, it's the# obvious. It's a violation of our democracy. 37:37.088 --> 37:40.491 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Jonathan, how# does all of this strike you? 37:40.491 --> 37:44.228 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Oh, look, when it comes# to democracy and threats to democracy,## 37:44.228 --> 37:48.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% there will be no daylight between me and David. 37:48.566 --> 37:54.805 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I come at this with the same view. Justice# is supposed to be blind. It is supposed## 37:54.805 --> 38:00.811 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to be meted out without fear or favor of the# powerful and certainly without pressure from## 38:00.811 --> 38:05.916 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the president. And now what we have seen time# and time again -- this isn't the only time that## 38:05.916 --> 38:11.355 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% we have seen Justice looking over her shoulder,# wondering, what does the president want me to do? 38:11.355 --> 38:15.760 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And the other thing about this# indictment of James Comey,## 38:15.760 --> 38:22.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% it's only two pages. And it's only -- it's# two pages because it's double-spaced. It is## 38:22.233 --> 38:28.306 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% literally so flimsy that it is no wonder# that the former FBI director is saying,## 38:28.306 --> 38:34.245 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% yes, let's go to trial, because I think he# knows deep down, if justice is to prevail,## 38:34.245 --> 38:41.252 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% if the rule of law is to be upheld, a jury# of his peers will find him not guilty. 38:41.252 --> 38:45.122 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And, David, the president is# predicting more prosecutions to come, he told## 38:45.122 --> 38:49.927 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a reporter on the South Lawn. He doesn't have a# list, but he says: "I think there will be others." 38:49.927 --> 38:52.630 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We pulled together a list of all the people the## 38:52.630 --> 38:56.801 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% president has targeted for retribution in# varying degrees. You see them all there,## 38:56.801 --> 39:01.839 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Letitia James. You see Jimmy Kimmel, Adam# Schiff, John Bolton. The list goes on. 39:01.839 --> 39:05.209 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Stepping back, what does this moment# mean for the Justice Department itself,## 39:05.209 --> 39:10.314 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% its independence, its credibility, and the# way Americans view its role going forward? 39:10.314 --> 39:11.449 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Gone. 39:11.449 --> 39:14.318 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, of course, it's not the first time# the Justic.. 39:14.318 --> 39:18.189 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you would say. John F. Kennedy shouldn't have# appointed his brother as attorney general. But## 39:18.723 --> 39:21.525 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it's -- one of the things# I think we have learned is,## 39:21.525 --> 39:25.930 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Constitution's a magnificent document,# but they made it too hard to change. 39:25.930 --> 39:28.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And a lot of countries have# independent prosecutorial systems,## 39:28.733 --> 39:32.069 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and they don't have the politicians# determining who's going to -- and we## 39:32.069 --> 39:37.274 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% relied -- instead of a legal precedent that# it's going to be separate and independent,## 39:37.274 --> 39:43.447 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% we learn -- we relied on norms. We learn --# relied on presidents restraining themselves. 39:43.447 --> 39:47.718 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And it turns out -- and we have learned# this since the first Trump term -- that## 39:48.719 --> 39:53.991 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% norms that we thought were -- we almost thought# they were real, like concrete. And norms are## 39:53.991 --> 39:59.230 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% really powerful, but if somebody destroys# them, they have destroyed your system. And so## 39:59.997 --> 40:03.367 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the eruption of norms has really# led to us -- us where we are today. 40:03.367 --> 40:08.239 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And then the final thing I'd say is that Lindsey# Halligan, she must -- she might be a wonderful## 40:08.239 --> 40:13.744 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% person. I don't know. I don't know her. But the# quality of a job of a prosecutor, like the quality## 40:13.744 --> 40:19.683 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of a general, like the quality of a pilot, like# the quality of a journalist, experience helps. 40:19.683 --> 40:23.587 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And the people who were fired because# they refuse to do this were experienced## 40:23.587 --> 40:29.760 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% prosecutors. I don't know their politics, but# they lived up to the standard of their craft.## 40:29.760 --> 40:33.664 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And when you have somebody who's willing# to betray the standard of their craft,## 40:33.664 --> 40:39.036 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you have got something bigger than one case.# You have got an administration where people## 40:39.036 --> 40:44.074 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% are going to do the things that are disgraceful# because they just don't see any disgrace in it. 40:44.074 --> 40:47.511 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And, Jonathan, building on# David's point about the erosion of norms,## 40:47.511 --> 40:51.916 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% how might this indictment influence# America's credibility abroad,## 40:51.916 --> 40:57.655 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% where the rule of law has long been# the cornerstone of our democracy? 40:57.655 --> 41:00.224 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right. The answer# to your question is in the question. 41:00.224 --> 41:06.864 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The United States has been a beacon around# the world for a whole host of reasons,## 41:06.864 --> 41:12.703 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% but primarily because of the rule of law,# that, if you go before the judicial system,## 41:12.703 --> 41:19.844 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you go before a jury of your peers, you# will have your day in court. And what## 41:19.844 --> 41:27.451 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% we're seeing here is -- I agree with David.# The independence of DOJ is -- it is gone. 41:27.451 --> 41:33.357 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And the one thing that -- in addition# to the norms that David talked about,## 41:33.357 --> 41:39.530 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that the Constitution relied on,# that the founders relied on, was## 41:39.530 --> 41:46.070 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% leaders of good character. And that is what# we do not have in the current president of## 41:46.070 --> 41:53.043 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the United States. And I say that because a person# of good character would not single out his or her## 41:53.043 --> 42:01.685 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% enemies for prosecution without evidence and# just say flatly they're guilty of something,## 42:01.685 --> 42:06.991 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and then demand that the people at the# Justice Department go find that something. 42:08.392 --> 42:14.732 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% We are in a very bad place when it comes to the# rule of law. And this is why the world is so## 42:14.732 --> 42:21.505 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% worried about what is happening to this country,# why they were so worried about a Trump 2.0. 42:21.505 --> 42:23.908 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And we are also# in this country days away from## 42:23.908 --> 42:26.477 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a government shutdown with no off-ramp in sight. 42:26.477 --> 42:31.982 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The OMB director, Russ Vought, he charged into# this escalating shutdown fight, warning of mass## 42:31.982 --> 42:37.421 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% federal layoffs unless Democrats basically do# what President Trump and Republicans want. David,## 42:37.421 --> 42:41.091 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% what do you make of the way the Trump# administration is playing hardball here? 42:41.091 --> 42:43.861 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: It was entirely# predictable. Donald Trump ran## 42:44.395 --> 42:47.364 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for office saying he was going to take# a flamethrower to the U.S. government,## 42:47.364 --> 42:52.469 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% federal bureaucracy. He hired Elon# Musk, and Musk more or less failed. 42:52.469 --> 42:57.841 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DOGE created a lot of chaos, but it didn't take# a blowtorch to the U.S. government. It was mostly## 42:57.841 --> 43:02.546 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ineffective. And, to me, the problem here is that# Chuck Schumer has decided to pick up where Elon## 43:02.546 --> 43:07.351 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Musk leaves off. He -- by shutting down the# -- heading us toward a government shutdown,## 43:07.351 --> 43:13.757 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% he will give the federal government or the Trump# administration incredible latitude to fire people,## 43:13.757 --> 43:19.263 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to decimate more agencies, to pour money# where they need to for political support,## 43:19.263 --> 43:23.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to withdraw money where they want to -- because# they don't think it will politically hurt him. 43:23.500 --> 43:29.106 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% They are handing Russell Vought amazing power when# they do this. And that's just not me saying this.## 43:29.106 --> 43:32.476 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% This is what Chuck Schumer said in May when# he decided not to shut down the government.## 43:32.476 --> 43:38.315 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% He said, it would give carte blanche for the# Trump administration to destroy vital services.## 43:38.315 --> 43:42.486 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% It would hand the keys to the city and the# state and the country to Russell Vought. 43:42.486 --> 43:45.522 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I don't know what's different from now# from March. I think he made the right## 43:45.522 --> 43:48.959 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% call in March. This is not the battle# to fight because it will just lead to## 43:48.959 --> 43:53.263 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the destruction of the federal government. And# there's no upside here for anybody. People do## 43:53.263 --> 43:57.201 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% not win government shutdowns. So there's no# upside for the Democrats. It's all downside. 43:57.201 --> 43:59.370 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Jonathan, should Democrats adjust## 43:59.370 --> 44:02.473 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% their strategy now to deal with# Vought's playing hardball here? 44:02.473 --> 44:06.944 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% We had Chuck Schumer, Senator Schumer on# the program before this threat, and he was## 44:06.944 --> 44:11.915 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% saying that they are going to hold firm, not# compromise on the issues that they hold dear. 44:11.915 --> 44:13.517 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: And he's absolutely right. 44:13.517 --> 44:20.290 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Here is where David and I are# in complete disagreement. Look,## 44:20.891 --> 44:25.763 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Russell Vought, President Trump,# this has been their plan all along.## 44:25.763 --> 44:32.703 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Democrats have to play hardball with them, have# to meet their hardball tactics with hardball## 44:32.703 --> 44:38.809 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% tactics. They were always going to take a# wrecking ball to the federal government. 44:38.809 --> 44:43.447 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% They're going to take a wrecking ball to the# federal government and do all sorts of things## 44:43.447 --> 44:49.353 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% whether Democrats give them the votes# needed to pass the C.R. or not. The one## 44:49.353 --> 44:54.625 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% thing -- Democrats are talking about they want# to safeguard health care for 15 million people,## 44:54.625 --> 44:59.363 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% from those who are about to lose their Obamacare# subsidies to those who are on Medicare. 44:59.363 --> 45:06.403 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But there's something else that they are# wisely demanding. They're demanding that## 45:06.403 --> 45:12.943 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the OMB director and the president dial back,# that Congress dialed back the president's## 45:12.943 --> 45:17.681 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% rescission power. And what that means is,# let's say Democrats give Republicans the votes## 45:17.681 --> 45:24.088 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% they need to do the C.R. to fund the government# afterwards, to do all those appropriations bills. 45:24.088 --> 45:29.993 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Well, Russell Vought and the president have# time and time again gone to Congress and said,## 45:29.993 --> 45:35.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the money that you appropriated for X, Y or# Z, we're not spending it that way. We don't## 45:35.666 --> 45:40.571 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% care whether you like it or not. And so that's the# other thing that the Democrats are fighting for,## 45:40.571 --> 45:45.209 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and they are right to demand that,# because no matter what they agree to,## 45:45.209 --> 45:49.279 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Trump administration is going to# turn their back on it, no matter what. 45:49.279 --> 45:50.781 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Fight, Democrats. 45:50.781 --> 45:52.316 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks,## 45:52.316 --> 45:56.453 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% we're grateful for your perspectives at the# end of a very long, very busy .. 45:56.453 --> 45:57.654 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Thank you. 45:57.654 --> 46:02.626 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks. 46:02.626 --> 46:08.799 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ:## 46:08.799 --> 46:13.504 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Academy Award nominee Scarlett Johansson# is known the world over for major roles## 46:13.504 --> 46:17.374 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in close to 40 films over the# past three decades. Recently,## 46:17.374 --> 46:20.811 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% she became the highest-grossing# lead actor in Hollywood. 46:20.811 --> 46:24.715 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% She's now taking on a new role# as director. Her debut film,## 46:24.715 --> 46:29.353 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% "Eleanor the Great," hits theaters tonight. I# met up with her in New York earlier this week## 46:29.353 --> 46:34.858 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to discuss this latest chapter in her career.# It's for our arts and culture series, Canvas. 46:34.858 --> 46:39.363 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUNE SQUIBB, Actress: Because we have been# coming here every Friday for the last 16## 46:39.363 --> 46:45.035 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% years. Can you count to 16, Charlie? AMNA NAWAZ: It's a celebration of deep## 46:45.035 --> 46:52.209 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% devotion, a friendship for the ages... 46:52.209 --> 46:53.911 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% (LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: ... paired with the grief that stems 46:53.911 --> 46:58.081 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% from sudden loss and a lie# that ties it all together. 46:58.081 --> 47:03.253 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Actress June Squibb, who turns 96# this November, stars as Eleanor,## 47:03.253 --> 47:07.691 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% who one day accidentally walks into# the wrong room at her New York Jewish## 47:07.691 --> 47:13.163 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% community center and ends up adopting her# late friend's Holocaust story as her own. 47:13.163 --> 47:18.569 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ERIN KELLYMAN, Actress: I was wondering# if I could feature you in my article. 47:18.569 --> 47:24.141 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON, Director: I have to approach# my job with empathy and then let the audience,## 47:24.141 --> 47:28.078 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% let them have their own feelings# about the characters and what they do. 47:28.078 --> 47:30.247 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: It's the feature directorial# debut for Scarlett Johansson. 47:30.247 --> 47:33.984 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: I hope# that, at the end of the film,## 47:33.984 --> 47:43.427 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the audience has empathy for Eleanor. I# certainly do. I think people are complicated. 47:43.427 --> 47:45.896 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Eleanor can be bawdy and brash. 47:45.896 --> 47:48.031 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUNE SQUIBB: Say goodbye to Melvin for me.## 47:49.132 --> 47:56.006 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Oh, we had such a wonderful time# the other night. He's very strong. 47:56.006 --> 47:58.642 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ACTRESS: You're so full of# (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Eleanor. 47:58.642 --> 47:59.910 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUNE SQUIBB: Yes. 47:59.910 --> 48:05.349 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And an imposing often grading presence# on the d.. 48:05.349 --> 48:08.552 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ACTOR: She's going to live forever. 48:08.552 --> 48:13.991 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: There is in Eleanor# this main character who is not## 48:13.991 --> 48:17.828 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% there to compliment anyone else# or play off of someone else.## 48:17.828 --> 48:23.967 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You don't see women like that a lot# on the big screen. Why don't we? 48:23.967 --> 48:30.474 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: Characters like# Eleanor in real life are often invisible## 48:30.474 --> 48:37.614 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in communities. Why? I don't know. I think# people are afraid of their own mortality## 48:37.614 --> 48:43.754 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and people that are aging are a reminder# of that potentially for people. You know,## 48:43.754 --> 48:49.126 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and it's like -- I don't know. I# think we live in an aging society,## 48:49.126 --> 48:54.164 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and so there's more interest, I think, in# aging now than that has been in the past. 48:54.164 --> 49:03.040 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And I think movies like this film and actors# like June help to move that cause forward. 49:03.040 --> 49:07.444 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: After the devastating loss of# her best friend Bessie, Eleanor fills the## 49:07.444 --> 49:12.149 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% void with an unlikely new bond, a college# student reporter played by Erin Kellyman... 49:12.149 --> 49:15.118 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ERIN KELLYMAN: What's it like being 94? 49:15.118 --> 49:18.555 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUNE SQUIBB: I feel the same# way I did when I was 16. 49:18.555 --> 49:22.092 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: ... who turns to Eleanor# and other stories of survival from a## 49:22.092 --> 49:27.597 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Holocaust support group to help her wrestle# with her own grief after her mother's death. 49:27.597 --> 49:31.902 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUNE SQUIBB: You have to talk about# the things that make you sad. Jews## 49:31.902 --> 49:35.906 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% fled Poland and never talked about# what they went through. They just## 49:35.906 --> 49:42.312 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% kept it moving. And there's some good# in that, but it can just eat you alive. 49:42.312 --> 49:47.284 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Central to the story and to the# character of Eleanor is her Jewish faith,## 49:47.284 --> 49:52.322 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% right, her relationship to her faith.# And your decision in key parts of the## 49:52.322 --> 49:56.960 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% movie to -- as I understand it, to# cast real Holocaust survivors playing## 49:56.960 --> 50:03.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% themselves in some of those scenes,# why was that important to you to do? 50:03.033 --> 50:05.369 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: You know, I# never even questioned it. I just## 50:05.369 --> 50:11.441 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% never thought about casting actors# for those roles. Part of it, again,## 50:11.441 --> 50:22.953 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% was just the desire to ground the story# in even a deeper emotional significance. 50:22.953 --> 50:28.091 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Several years ago, I participated in "Finding# Your Roots," and I discovered that I -- I knew## 50:28.091 --> 50:36.199 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that I had relatives that died in the Warsaw# ghetto, but I didn't know the whole story of it. 50:36.199 --> 50:41.438 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% It makes me feel more deeply connected to# that side of myself, that side of my family. 50:41.438 --> 50:46.309 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% He presented me with a paper that had# -- it was essentially like a death## 50:46.309 --> 50:50.881 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% certificate for all of the people# in my family that I'd lost there. 50:50.881 --> 50:53.050 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: How much did you# think about your own family## 50:53.050 --> 50:55.185 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% story as you were telling this family story? 50:55.185 --> 50:57.521 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: It was impossible# not to think about my own family story,## 50:57.521 --> 51:01.191 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because it lives within me.# That's sort of all in my own DNA,## 51:01.191 --> 51:05.028 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and all in all my memories, and# so the film is infused with that. 51:05.028 --> 51:09.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: It's also informed by Johansson's# own relationship with her grandmother,## 51:09.433 --> 51:14.304 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Dorothy Sloan, a kindergarten# teacher, arts lover, and inspiration. 51:14.304 --> 51:24.714 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: We had such a deep friendship# and feeling a sense of, like, sisterhood between## 51:24.714 --> 51:32.389 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% us. We talked about everything. We talked about# our bodies. We talked about our family. We talked## 51:32.389 --> 51:37.794 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% about our fantasies, our -- we talked about sex.# We talked about politics. Like, we really... 51:37.794 --> 51:38.695 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: With your grandmother? 51:38.695 --> 51:43.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: Yes, with my# gr.. 51:43.433 --> 51:50.073 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Reading this script and seeing# this intergenerational friendship## 51:50.073 --> 51:58.448 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% celebrated and out in the open, it was so# unique. It felt like something I wanted to## 51:58.448 --> 52:02.219 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% explore artistically and something# I feel like we should see more of. 52:02.219 --> 52:07.023 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: That uniqueness is being well# received. At the Cannes Film Festival premiere,## 52:07.023 --> 52:14.131 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "Eleanor the Great" received a# five-minute standing ovation. 52:14.131 --> 52:14.131 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% (CHEERING) 52:17.134 --> 52:20.637 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and it was also for June, I think.# She's so extraordinary in the film.## 52:20.637 --> 52:25.342 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And it felt like -- this really feels# like a legacy performance for her. 52:25.342 --> 52:27.344 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Tell me about working with her,## 52:27.344 --> 52:31.748 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% what that was like, and directing her in# particular. Does she take direction well? 52:31.748 --> 52:42.559 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: June is -- I mean,# she's such a sharp, very sinewy actor. She's## 52:42.559 --> 52:48.798 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% just -- she comes to set, she's been preparing for# months, she has an idea of what she wants to do,## 52:48.798 --> 52:55.272 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and her first take is fantastic, and then# just keeps getting better from there. 52:55.272 --> 53:00.644 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: The 40-year-old Johansson's evolution# and dexterity have built a career most actors only## 53:00.644 --> 53:05.882 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% dream of, from child star in "The Horse# Whisperer" with mentor Robert Redford... 53:05.882 --> 53:07.484 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ROBERT REDFORD, Actor: What, do# you have a problem with that? 53:07.484 --> 53:09.252 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: Isn't it, like, obvious? 53:09.252 --> 53:11.388 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: ... to films# like "Lost in Translation"... 53:11.388 --> 53:16.793 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: How dare you# compare my mothering to my mother? 53:16.793 --> 53:20.864 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: ... "Marriage Story"# and "Jojo Rabbit," even extending to## 53:20.864 --> 53:25.902 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% action films like "Jurassic World" and# across the Marvel Cinematic Universe. 53:25.902 --> 53:28.705 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But directing was a dream she carried for years. 53:28.705 --> 53:33.910 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: Part of my work is,# I read a lot of scripts. And I think,## 53:33.910 --> 53:42.652 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% having done it for such a long time, when I read# a script, like, I see I see the entire film in## 53:42.652 --> 53:49.426 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% my mind. You know this film inside and out,# and it's my own perspective on storytelling. 53:49.426 --> 53:50.460 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUNE SQUIBB: Me? 53:50.460 --> 53:53.830 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Johansson says she hopes# the connec.. 53:53.830 --> 53:58.301 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% story offers a window into her life# and a mirror for the audience watching. 53:58.301 --> 54:08.411 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SCARLETT JOHANSSON: You know, we're all human.# And I think I would hope that this story## 54:09.746 --> 54:13.917 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% allows the audience to let go# of whatever judgment that they## 54:13.917 --> 54:21.291 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% may have of Eleanor initially and# be able to reflect on themselves. 54:21.291 --> 54:26.062 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And, remember,# there's a lot more online,## 54:26.062 --> 54:30.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% including a lightning round of questions# with Scarlett Johansson, covering everything## 54:30.333 --> 54:36.139 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% from her real-life superpowers to her latest# Google search. That is on our YouTube page. 54:36.139 --> 54:38.408 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And be sure to# watch "Washington Week With The## 54:38.408 --> 54:42.312 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Atlantic" tonight on PBS. Jeffrey# Goldberg and his panel consider how## 54:42.312 --> 54:46.316 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% President Trump's role in James Comey's# indictment signals an historic shift. 54:46.316 --> 54:49.286 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And watch "PBS News# Weekend" tomorrow for a look at## 54:49.286 --> 54:54.491 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the increasing popularity of egg freezing# as a way for women to delay childbirth. 54:54.491 --> 54:57.727 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that is the "News Hour"# for tonight. I'm Amna Nawaz. 54:57.727 --> 54:58.728 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett. 54:58.728 --> 55:00.630 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% For all of us here at the "PBS News Hour," th.. 55:00.630 --> 55:03.767 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for spending part of your evening# with us, and have a great weekend.