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AMNA NAWAZ: Also today,
President Trump#
signed orders to impose 25
percent tariffs##

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on all steel and aluminum
imports to the U.S.#
Two key American allies, Canada
and Mexico,##

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would be significantly impacted.
But so#
would American businesses and
consumers.

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For more, I'm joined by Greg Ip,
chief economics#
commentator at The Wall Street
Journal.

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Greg, welcome back. It's good to
see you.

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Let's start with this
announcement then of#
25 percent steel and aluminum
..

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days ago, you wrote in your
column that the#
early verdict on tariffs was bad
economics,##

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better politics. Does this
latest#
announcement here fit in with
that pattern?

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GREG IP, The Wall Street
Journal: Well,##

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only time will tel..

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We know from Trump's first term
that, when he#
imposed similar tariffs on steel
and aluminum,##

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the result was to create some
additional#
domestic production and jobs in
the steel##

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and aluminum industries, but to#
significantly raise costs and
cause##

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a lot of harm in the industries#
that consume steel and aluminum.

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And that harm was compounded
when#
our trading partners
retaliated##

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against those tariffs. And so
the net#
effect was an economic negative.
Now,##

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fast-forward to today. When
President Trump a#
week earlier said that he was
going to impose##

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25 percent tariffs on Canada and
Mexico, we saw#
a very negative reaction in the
stock market.

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That too suggests that investors
expect that##

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the net effect on the economy
of#
these tariffs will be negative.

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AMNA NAWAZ: We should point out
too that#
there's an intention here to
target China##

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in some way. China is not one of
the top#
steel or aluminum suppliers to
the U.S.

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And there are already existing
tariffs on#
Chinese steel and aluminum even
from the##

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previous administration. So how
would this latest#
potential move here, how could
that impact China?

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GREG IP: So I think that the --#
certainly, Trump's first
administration,##

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and to some extent the Biden
administration, made#
a distinction between China and
everybody else.

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There was a recognition that
China was#
a strategic competitor to the
United##

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States and that it did not
adhere to the#
rules of global trade as other
countries##

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understand it. And so there was
a better#
case for imposing high tariffs
on China,##

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notwithstanding the harm that
that would#
cause to those who import things
from China.

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In this case, the president is
not#
really making that distinction.
He's##

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saying tariffs on everybody,
whether or#
not you're an ally. And that's
because##

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the motive here is to try and
protect#
the U.S. steel and aluminum
industries.

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Now, to be sure, China, even
though it's not the#
specific -- it's not being
singled out in these##

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tariffs, it's sort of there in
the background,#
because one of the concerns that
folks have had##

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about tariffs and about China in
the past is that,#
even when there are tariffs on
Chinese steel,##

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it comes in through third
countries, where#
China sells steel cheaply to one
country.

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That country's industry suffers,
and it#
sells its steel to the United
States. So##

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there might be in a roundabout
way an#
effort to get at China. But that
is,##

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I think, kind of secondary. What
Trump is#
saying here is, he is willing to
impose very##

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high tariffs indefinitely to
protect#
industries that are important to
him.

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AMNA NAWAZ: Is it clear to you,
though, what the#
actual goal is here for the
Trump administration,##

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especially when it comes to
Canada and Mexico,#
the other tariffs that he's
postponed as well?

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GREG IP: Well, Trump's adviser
has put#
forth many different
justifications for##

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tariffs. They will tell you,
for#
example, that there's a
difference##

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between tariffs that are
intended#
for negotiation or punitive
tariffs.

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That's the tariffs that were
threatened#
against Mexico and Canada as a
way to get##

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them to act on American concerns
about the inflow#
of illegal migrants and
fentanyl. And then there's##

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a different bucket, which they
call structural#
tariffs or strategic tariffs.
And these are kind##

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of indefinite. And they're meant
to inculcate#
long-term economic and political
changes,##

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such as strengthening the U.S.
manufacturing base#
or raising revenue that can help
pay for tax cuts.

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So the tariffs that were
punished --#
threatened against Mexico and
Canada a##

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week ago fall into that first
bucket. They were#
not, at least if you listen to
the president,##

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intended to be there forever,
just#
long enough until Mexico and
Canada##

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did act. And it appears that
they#
are acting on American concerns.

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The tariffs that the president
announced#
today on steel and aluminum and
the ones##

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that he said are coming, the
so-called#
reciprocal tariffs on
everybody,##

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those are probably more in this
second bucket#
of structural, open-ended
tariffs. And we can##

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expect those to be in place for
a very long time,#
because the problems that
they're addressing,##

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the very large trade deficit,
are#
not going away in just a few
months.

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AMNA NAWAZ: That is Greg Ip,##

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chief economics commentator at
The Wall#
Street Journal, ..

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Greg, thank you so much. Good to
speak with you.

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GREG IP: Thanks for having me.