WEBVTT

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AMNA NAWAZ: Good
evening. I'm Amna Nawaz.

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GEOFF BENNETT: And
I'm Geoff Bennett.

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On the "News Hour" tonight:
The threat of mass firings
loom on this second day

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of the government shutdown with
no signs of a potential deal.

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AMNA NAWAZ: Millions
of senior citizens lose

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access to telehealth services
in the wake of that shutdown.

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GEOFF BENNETT: And our
ongoing look at those
caught up in the president's

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immigration crackdown.
A refugee living in the

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U.S. since childhood
describes being detained
during a routine check-in.

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ALAN PHETSADAKONE, Laotian
Refugee: Just in the blink
of an eye, I lost everything,

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just not knowing what's
going to happen next,

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not knowing what's going
to happen to my life,
my family, my kids.

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(BREAK)

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GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome
to the "News Hour."

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There were no signs of progress
among lawmakers today in
Washington, and that ensures the

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government will stay shut
down for another day,
as Democrats dig in on
protections to health care.

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AMNA NAWAZ: President Trump
is also digging in and warning
of far-reaching consequences,

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firing federal workers
and targeting Democratic
states with a wave of cuts

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to federal projects. He
even invoked the name
of a policy blueprint he

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once distanced himself
from on the campaign
trail. That's Project 2025.

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White House correspondent Liz
Landers begins our coverage.

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LIZ LANDERS: Day two of
the government shutdown and
the White House is turning

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up the temperature on its
threats to permanently
lay off workers.

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White House Press Secretary
Karoline Leavitt alluded
to unprecedented mass

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layoffs that are -- quote --
"likely going to be in the
thousands," plus drastic cuts

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to so-called "Democrat
agencies," but gave
no indication of
which those might be.

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, White
House Press Secretary:
Look, we're going to look
at agencies that don't

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align with the administration's
values that we feel are a waste
of the taxpayer dollar. And,

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look, unfortunately, these
conversations are happening

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because we don't have
any money coming into the
federal government right now.

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LIZ LANDERS: President
Trump today sitting down
with his budget director,

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Russ Vought, to lay out options.

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Mr. Trump on social media,
notably no longer disavowing
Vought's ties to Project 2025,

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which has long advocated
for wide-scale government
cuts. Instead, the president
leaning in, writing

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- - quote -- "I can't
believe the radical left
Democrats gave me this
unprecedented opportunity."

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Trump talked up those threats
speaking to conservative-leaning
network One America News.

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DONALD TRUMP, President of
the United States: Well,
there could be firings,

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and that's their fault. And it
could also be other things. I
mean, we could cut projects

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that they wanted, favorite
projects and they'd be
permanently cut. So you could

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say -- a lot of people are
saying, Trump wanted this,
that I wanted this closing.

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And I didn't want it. But a
lot of people are saying it
because I'm allowed to cut

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things that should have
never been approved
in the first place.

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LIZ LANDERS: Russ Vought says
he's already begun that work,
canceling $8 billion in green

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energy projects in 16
states where voters backed
Kamala Harris over Trump
in the 2024 election.

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One of the Democratic
governors of those states,

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former Harris running mate
Tim Walz, called that an
egregious abuse of power.

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GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): This
idea that you have got
to go and kiss the ring,
or you have got to go and

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give some type of award
to get basic services
that he swore an oath to
defend, that is outrageous.

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LIZ LANDERS: Meanwhile,
down Pennsylvania
Avenue, the stalemate
between lawmakers drags

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on with no end in sight,
Democrats digging in
on their core demand,

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refusing to back a bill that
doesn't reverse Medicaid cuts
and extend Obamacare subsidies.

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REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES
(D-NY): People are going
to face medical bankruptcy,

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millions of American citizens.
And Republicans don't want to do

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anything about it.
Democrats are in this fight
until we win this fight.

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REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA):
Don't ask the Republicans
what we should be doing or

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what we should be
negotiating. I don't have
anything to negotiate.

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LIZ LANDERS: Speaker Mike
Johnson and Republican
leadership said those

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discussions on health care
can wait until their deadline
at the end of the year.

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REP. MIKE JOHNSON: We have
three months to do that. That is
not an issue for today. Today,

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the only issue is whether
they're going to vote

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to keep the government
operating for the people,
clear, plain and simple.

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LIZ LANDERS:
Outside the Capitol,

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both federal workers
and visitors ran into
small reminders of the
closure around town.

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MAN: We didn't come
to Washington to have
to face a shutdown.

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LIZ LANDERS: But they
say they haven't seen
the shutdown's effects
ripple out of control yet.

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STEVE BERGSBAKEN, D.C.
Resident: It will affect,
like, say, the next paycheck,

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if we don't get the check.
But if they settle it by
the 15th, then it'll be OK.

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JAMES FARANDA, U.S. Customs
and Border Protection
Employee: It's stressful

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because you just have
all this uncertainty.
So I wish they would

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just get their act together
so that we can all do
what we do best at work,

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which is work and work for
the American people, because
I do work for the government.

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LIZ LANDERS: The Senate
will take another vote
on a government funding
bill tomorrow. But,

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if that fails, it is
unlikely that they will
stay in town this weekend,

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which means, Amna,
that this shutdown may
extend into next week.

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AMNA NAWAZ: So, Liz, just bring
us up to speed on the latest.

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What's the state of play?
Are there any negotiations
or discussions to end this?

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LIZ LANDERS: We're pretty much
at a stalemate right now. The
president has not had any public

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events yesterday or today. We
do know that he was supposed
to have that meeting today with

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his OMB director, Russ
Vought. We did not get a
readout of that meeting yet.

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This afternoon, Speaker Johnson
was seen arriving to the White
House, to the West Wing. So

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presumably he's talking with
the president about this. But we
heard Democratic Leader Jeffries

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saying that he's open to having
more negotiations, but those
are not happening right now.

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AMNA NAWAZ: And as
you reported there,

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the administration now seems
to be taking deliberate steps
to target Democratic states,

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Democratic priorities in
their shutdown decisions. What
should we know about that?

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LIZ LANDERS: It's not
unusual for the political
parties to play the blame
game here, but the White

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House is being very
political, especially not
just in their words, but
also in their actions.

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So we saw in our report
that the OMB director is
slashing some of these

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programs, these energy
programs in 16 states that
all voted Democrat in the

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last election. And then also
we have seen a lot of online
presence, political presence,

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from this administration blaming
the shutdown on Democrats.

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Several of the major federal
Web sites for agencies
have messages like this

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one. The agriculture Web site
says: "Due to the radical
left Democrat shutdown,

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this government Web site
will not be updated." There
is a lot of that right now.

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AMNA NAWAZ: All right, that's
our White House correspondent,
Liz Landers, reporting tonight.

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Liz, thank you.

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Well, meanwhile, as
Liz reported, Congress
is not meeting today.
It's in part to the

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Jewish holiday of Yom
Kippur. But when the
Senate returns tomorrow,

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the question is, will
anything change? What is the
way out of this shutdown?

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Our congressional correspondent,
Lisa Desjardins, has more.

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LISA DESJARDINS: Party leaders
are not budging. President Trump

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is increasingly threatening
Democrats and acting
against Democratic states.

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But there are some in the
Senate trying to talk across the
aisle and find a way forward.

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One of those is Republican
Mike Rounds of South
Dakota, who joins me now.

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Senator, you were center
stage yesterday on the Senate
floor during one of the votes.

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You had an exchange of ideas
with Democrats. Obviously,
there's no deal, but other than

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Democrats suddenly agreeing
to your funding bill, what are
the possible ways forward here?

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SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): There
really is no other way to
start than starting government

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and opening it up again. And
that's part of the message
that we're trying to share is,

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there's lots of ways
using regular order, the
traditional way in which
we do appropriations

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and everything, to
accomplish a lot of really
good things in the Senate.

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But nothing will happen until we
get government opened up again.
And the best way to do that is

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with the continuing resolution
that we have offered that would
end on November 21. That's

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just simply the best way
to approach it while we
have still got time is to
open government back up.

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And that's the message
we're trying to share with
our Democrat colleagues.

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LISA DESJARDINS: Now, you
and I talked about this.

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I know that you told
Democrats you understand
their health care concerns.

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But talking to one of the key
senators involved, Gary Peters,

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who I know you're working
with, he says trust is
really an issue here. And he

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points out that President
Trump has pulled back funding
that Congress appropriated.

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He's done that on his own.
He's frozen programs that
Congress has approved.

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Why should Democrats trust
you that there will be a real
health care way forward later?

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SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: Let's
just say that they
don't trust us and let's

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just say they keep government
shut down. Then everything that
they're working for is gone.

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The best approach is to open
government back up and allow
the appropriations process,

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which was working correctly,
to actually proceed.

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We don't see another
alternative to that.

10:38.400 --> 10:40.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
LISA DESJARDINS: But you
understand their concern,

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right? Is there no
mechanism where you
can offer an incentive?

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SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: There's
not going to be any
negotiations with them
until they get the shutdown

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completed. Once that
happens then under regular
order, there's lots of
negotiations that can go

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on. But it's really difficult
to do negotiations when
you have got a government
shutdown going on.

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And I think a lot of our
colleagues have said,
look, until we get that,
it just means we will

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have one more demand after
another demand. We won't get
anyplace. And in the meantime,

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as I have shared with my
colleagues on the other side
of the aisle, you are running

11:11.200 --> 11:15.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
out of time as well, because one
of the things that they do care
about, and like a lot of us,

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is, how do you address this
thing for people that have been
stuck with Obamacare and who,

11:22.966 --> 11:25.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
because of the expenses on it,
are definitely going to want
to have some assistance on it?

11:27.966 --> 11:31.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
But the negotiations on that
won't be worth much value come
about the end of October. So

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for those of us here, we're
trying to tell them, you're
running out of time. Get past

11:41.166 --> 11:43.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
this shutdown and let's get
back to regular order so we can
really talk about the stuff.

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LISA DESJARDINS: Right.
Democrats say the time is urgent
because while the subsidies

11:47.533 --> 11:52.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
for the Affordable Care Act run
out at the end of December, open
enrollment is just a month away,

11:54.233 --> 11:57.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
and insurers are already
announcing those prices,
those price increases.

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What about that? How do you
respond to that concern, that
you all really need to act now?

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SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: We agree
with them. And the sooner
they get passed the shutdown

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and get back to regular
order, we can get
into the middle of it.

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It's going to take work
on the part of the Finance
Committee, on the part of
the Health Committee to

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actually craft a way to get rid
of some of the fraud and abuse
that has been occurring, that's

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been acknowledged, and there's
been criminal charges already
filed because of some of it.

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But in order to move
forward, we have to get past
the shutdown. And every

12:27.600 --> 12:31.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
day that they keep the
government in a shutdown
is one last day that they

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have to actually work through
regular order on appropriations
in order to get anything done.

12:36.200 --> 12:41.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
LISA DESJARDINS: The
president, in his own words,
is targeting Democratic states,

12:41.033 --> 12:46.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
freezing funding for
some, and also saying he
wants to target what he
calls Democratic agencies.

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That's really unprecedented
in modern times. Do you feel
like that's appropriate?

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SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: What I
have told people is, is,

12:52.966 --> 12:57.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
look, I can't influence the
president on the approach
that he wants to take. He's

12:59.600 --> 13:02.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
going to try to do everything
he can to put pressure on
our Democrat colleagues.

13:02.633 --> 13:06.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
What he does is something
that he will have to make the
decisions on. It's not something

13:06.533 --> 13:11.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
that we can go in and stop him
from doing. But what we can do
is to get rid of the government

13:13.600 --> 13:16.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
shutdown. And if we get rid
of the shutdown, there's no
reason for him to be doing that.

13:16.066 --> 13:21.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
And so once again, look, we're
within days of having enough
time to actually work our

13:23.166 --> 13:26.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
way through everything else.
So my message, once again, get
rid of the shutdown. I know

13:28.666 --> 13:30.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
we're going back in. We're
talking about this on a
Thursday evening. On a Friday,

13:30.700 --> 13:32.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
we're going to have
everybody come back in, and
we're going to vote again.

13:32.800 --> 13:36.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
We're hoping to be able to
have our Democrat colleagues
take a look at just

13:36.466 --> 13:39.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
the evidence of what we have
had already with regard to
appropriations this year,

13:39.833 --> 13:43.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
how far we have come already,
and the goodwill that that's
already developed. And

13:43.900 --> 13:48.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
if we can get them back
to regular order, we're
convinced that lots of
good things can happen.

13:48.800 --> 13:52.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
And there's no limitation on
the amendments and so forth
that can be considered, moved,

13:52.933 --> 13:55.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and so forth on those
bills. So -- but we're

13:55.466 --> 13:59.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
not going to negotiate
until we get government
shutdown out of the way.

13:59.933 --> 14:03.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
LISA DESJARDINS: Senator,
I know you say that the
president's choices are his own,

14:03.333 --> 14:05.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but you yourself are
an important lawmaker.

14:05.266 --> 14:09.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
And I know you're
someone who cares about a
nonpartisan civil service.

14:09.666 --> 14:14.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
Are you concerned about
this idea that the civil
service is being used in
a partisan way and that

14:14.466 --> 14:19.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
money's being cut off
for Americans because of
the way their state is
perceived by the president?

14:21.600 --> 14:23.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: Look, right
now, we're in the middle of
a shutdown. And in the middle

14:23.766 --> 14:28.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
of the shutdown, you have got
a lot of those services being
stopped and for no reason.

14:28.133 --> 14:31.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
And so, look, some people
will say, well, the
president should do it

14:31.733 --> 14:36.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
different. The president is
saying, don't do a shutdown.
Number one, don't do a shutdown.

14:36.133 --> 14:40.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
And if you're going to
do a shutdown, then the
executive branch has the
ability then to respond

14:40.800 --> 14:45.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
accordingly. And he's going
to put pressure on them during
this shutdown time period.

14:45.500 --> 14:49.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
I used to tell people
-- I worked as governor
in South Dakota for a
period of eight years.

14:49.433 --> 14:53.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
And during that time, one of
my messages to my legislative
colleagues at that time was,

14:53.900 --> 14:56.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
you make the rules, you write
the laws, but I play the game.

14:56.933 --> 14:59.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
And that's something that I
think our Democrat colleagues
have got to remember.

14:59.900 --> 15:04.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
The president will follow the
law, but at this stage he has
broad latitude about what he can

15:06.833 --> 15:11.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
do in the executive branch
of government. This goes
moot if they will simply open

15:12.966 --> 15:16.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
government back up. Open
government back up. Let's get
back to what we were doing,

15:16.933 --> 15:20.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
which for the first
time in years was the
appropriations process.

15:20.866 --> 15:25.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
Let's get back to that
as soon as possible while
they still have time to
actually propose and to

15:28.266 --> 15:32.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
work on the modifications
and additional things
they want to do. And they
have got a time frame

15:34.466 --> 15:36.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
that they have got to get
things done in as well that
they feel strongly about. I

15:36.466 --> 15:41.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
understand that. Let's get
this government shutdown
behind us and let's go to work.

15:41.233 --> 15:44.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
LISA DESJARDINS: Mass
layoffs, the president
is threatening them. Are

15:44.933 --> 15:47.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
those required in a shutdown
or is that a policy choice?

15:47.600 --> 15:50.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: I
think it'll be a policy
choice, but remember,

15:50.633 --> 15:55.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
as the chief executive
officer, as the president
of the United States, he
has very broad authority.

15:57.466 --> 16:00.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
What our Democrat colleagues
have got to remember is,
if they make it easier

16:00.566 --> 16:05.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
for him to do those things,
he has the decision-making
process available to

16:07.666 --> 16:11.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
him. He could -- they can stop
that right now by simply not
having a government shutdown.

16:13.866 --> 16:16.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
LISA DESJARDINS: All
right, Senator Mike
Rounds of South Dakota,
thank you for joining us.

16:16.200 --> 16:17.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: Thank you.

16:17.833 --> 16:20.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
GEOFF BENNETT: And for
a Democratic perspective
on the shutdown,

16:20.000 --> 16:23.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
we're joined now by Shalanda
Young, former director of
the Office of Management and

16:23.900 --> 16:28.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Budget under President
Biden, now a distinguished
scholar at NYU Law.

16:28.200 --> 16:30.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Thank you for being here.

16:30.233 --> 16:31.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
SHALANDA YOUNG, Former
Director, Office of Management
and Budget Director: Thank

16:31.133 --> 16:33.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
you for having me, Geoff.

16:33.600 --> 16:35.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
GEOFF BENNETT: So President
Trump and Russ Vought,
his budget director, they
are warning of permanent

16:35.700 --> 16:40.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
layoffs, mass firings connected
to this shutdown, a dramatic
break from past practice.

16:42.033 --> 16:45.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
What do you make of
the way Republicans are
rewriting the rules here?

16:45.000 --> 16:48.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
SHALANDA YOUNG: Geoff, this
has nothing to do with the
shutdown. This is in line

16:48.800 --> 16:53.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
with everything we have seen
from this administration.
Who's to say those mass

16:53.266 --> 16:56.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
layoffs wouldn't happen if
the government were open?

16:56.300 --> 17:01.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Who's to say that wouldn't
happen October 15 if
a deal is reached to

17:03.200 --> 17:05.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
reopen the government? You
don't get extra authority
to fire people because

17:05.833 --> 17:10.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
the government ran out of
money. As the senator just
said, this is a policy choice.

17:12.533 --> 17:15.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
They're making a policy
to use the shutdown
as an excuse, frankly,

17:17.966 --> 17:21.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
to undertake these mass firings,
a continuation for what we
have seen since January 21.

17:23.633 --> 17:27.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
Obviously, they want the
shutdown theatrics around
this announcement. But I
can tell you one thing.

17:29.366 --> 17:33.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
I'm not sure, whether the
government was open or not, if
we would see anything different.

17:33.000 --> 17:36.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
GEOFF BENNETT: So the shutdown
gives them no extra authority.

17:36.233 --> 17:39.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Would the firings, mass
firings, even be legal?

17:39.266 --> 17:41.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
SHALANDA YOUNG: So, this
is a great question.

17:41.900 --> 17:45.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
When you have a lapse in
funding, which is what this
is -- Congress didn't do its

17:45.433 --> 17:50.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
job on time -- you usually
furlough most staff
and you only keep the
staff who are essential,

17:52.633 --> 17:57.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
I mean essential, to the
workings of government.
We call them excepted
staff, so our military

17:59.666 --> 18:02.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
around the world doing critical
work. That should be a very
limited number of people.

18:04.800 --> 18:07.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
So what this tells me, if
they made a decision that
they're going to bring in

18:07.500 --> 18:12.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
H.R. officials to undertake
these firings. We're obviously
bringing in I.T. people

18:14.700 --> 18:19.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
during a shutdown to volunteer
to put mass firing warnings
on government Web sites.

18:21.900 --> 18:25.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
So there is a legality
question about whether
they are using volunteer
services and bringing in

18:28.066 --> 18:33.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
people not paid to do
these things that obviously
are not critical to the
mission of government.

18:34.766 --> 18:37.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
GEOFF BENNETT: President
Trump today said that he
views this shutdown as

18:37.200 --> 18:40.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
an unprecedented opportunity to
slash more government agencies,

18:40.800 --> 18:45.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
to cut more Democratic
priorities. Russ Vought, as we
said earlier in this broadcast,

18:45.200 --> 18:50.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
one of the architects of
Project 2025, he has openly
argued for concentrating

18:50.000 --> 18:54.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
power in the hands of Trump
loyalists and dismantling
traditional checks and balances.

18:54.533 --> 18:59.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
What I hear you say is that
this budgeting piece is in many
ways a pretext for a power grab.

19:01.000 --> 19:03.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
SHALANDA YOUNG: That's
exactly what I'm saying. It

19:03.033 --> 19:08.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
is -- this is a continuation
of the same old, same
old since January 21.

19:09.800 --> 19:14.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
DOGE, Elon Musk, seems a
long past away, but it's
not, where we saw e-mails,

19:16.333 --> 19:19.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
tell me what you did
yesterday or the day before
or you will be fired,

19:19.833 --> 19:24.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
or I will fire someone this
day and maybe bring them back
if I made a mistake the next.

19:24.700 --> 19:29.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
What's different now? Shutdown
is being used as a pretext
to do what they wanted

19:31.800 --> 19:35.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
to do with government. As a
matter of fact, they told us
this in Project 2025. This was

19:37.266 --> 19:40.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
laid out for people. Now, we
were told this administration
wouldn't follow Project 2025,

19:42.033 --> 19:45.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
but here we go. We can
check a box throughout
that document. This is

19:45.500 --> 19:50.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
exactly following that
playbook, and shutdown is
being used as a facade.

19:50.300 --> 19:55.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Look at the New York project,
infrastructure project. The
bridge is falling apart in New

19:57.100 --> 19:59.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Jersey and New York. They
didn't say for shutdown
they were pulling that

19:59.200 --> 20:04.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
money. They said it was
DEI-related. So we see DEI
being used as a pretext. We

20:06.300 --> 20:09.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
see shutdown being used. They
want to do these things, and
they will find a way to do them.

20:09.166 --> 20:11.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
GEOFF BENNETT: On
the other hand,

20:11.266 --> 20:15.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
what lessons can Democrats
learn from the way Republicans
are playing hardball here?

20:17.500 --> 20:20.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
SHALANDA YOUNG: So I got to --
get this question all the time.
How can Democrats win? I think,

20:20.400 --> 20:24.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
if you start that way,
it's a pretty cynical way
of looking at government.

20:24.800 --> 20:29.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
I don't think there's
anyone that questions
that Democrats believe
government in its best form

20:32.133 --> 20:35.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
can work for the American
people, that, in its
best form, it helps
working-class people enter

20:38.833 --> 20:43.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
into a path to the middle
class, that it helps the
middle class help their
kids do better than them.

20:46.666 --> 20:51.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
No one questions the
Democratic Party's commitment
to making government work.
So this is a difficult

20:53.800 --> 20:57.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
place for someone like me, who
did not preside over a shutdown
in four years. That was not by

20:59.633 --> 21:03.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
accident. It's because
we believed, with Joe
Biden as president,
myself at OMB, the right

21:05.533 --> 21:10.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
thing to do for the
American people is have
an open government that
worked for both parties.

21:11.600 --> 21:15.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
We sat down with
Republicans every time.

21:15.500 --> 21:18.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
GEOFF BENNETT: How should
Democrats then attempt
to push back against

21:18.533 --> 21:22.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
what looks like this
effort to dismantle
government by attrition?

21:22.600 --> 21:26.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
SHALANDA YOUNG: They
have to tell the truth.
They have -- this idea,

21:26.800 --> 21:31.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
the news cycle of things coming
at people, it's hard for people
who are trying to pay bills.

21:31.666 --> 21:36.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
It's hard. I'm a mom of a
3-year-old. People are not
paying attention to this day in,

21:38.833 --> 21:42.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
day out. But Democrats have to
keep up the drumbeat. This is
what's happening. It's not OK.

21:45.633 --> 21:50.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
And this idea that the
government needs to
reopen, let's press on
that. The government

21:52.466 --> 21:55.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
is operating in ways it
never has. Parts of the
government are shut down now,

21:55.700 --> 22:00.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
even when the government was
open. We see a collapse of
norms in the government. I would

22:02.700 --> 22:05.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
proffer that the government
isn't operating the way it
should in the first place.

22:05.666 --> 22:10.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
So this wave of magic
wand, Democrats collapse,
the government reopens,

22:12.633 --> 22:15.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
to what? Are you OK with
status quo? A lot of Democrats
are saying, no, they're not.

22:15.900 --> 22:19.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
GEOFF BENNETT: If Russ
Vought wants to prevent
agencies from receiving money

22:19.666 --> 22:24.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
that's already been
appropriated, what can,
what should Congress do?

22:26.800 --> 22:29.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
SHALANDA YOUNG: So the judiciary
is obviously involved. You see
lawsuit after lawsuit. You see

22:29.266 --> 22:34.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
lower courts saying this
is unconstitutional or
against the statute.
Presidents cannot impound.

22:36.366 --> 22:40.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
The Constitution has endowed
the Congress with the right and
the authority to spend money.

22:41.500 --> 22:43.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
That is a congressional
right in the Constitution.

22:43.900 --> 22:48.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
We get to the Supreme
Court, and that's where
it all falls apart. So
who is it left to? It's

22:50.966 --> 22:55.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
left to the body that the
founders said be a check on the
presidency. Make no mistake,

22:57.800 --> 23:02.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
this is more than this
vote. This is a power
grab by a presidency,
by the executive branch.

23:06.066 --> 23:11.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
And Congress gave away
the keys months ago. I'm
an optimist. They can get
it back. But Republicans

23:13.333 --> 23:16.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
have to work with Democrats.
They don't work for the
president. They work
for their constituents.

23:18.166 --> 23:19.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
GEOFF BENNETT: When you have
conversations with your former

23:19.733 --> 23:23.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Biden administration colleagues,
what do you make of all this?

23:23.566 --> 23:28.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
SHALANDA YOUNG: You know,
elections have consequences. I
have been around long enough not

23:30.933 --> 23:34.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
to cry in my milk because
I see a policy that I
disagree with. Obviously,
I have worked to promote

23:36.533 --> 23:41.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
Democratic values and
work on policies popular
with the Democratic Party
for 20-something years.

23:43.333 --> 23:46.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
I have been in the majority
and the minority when I
worked on Capitol Hill.

23:46.533 --> 23:50.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
So I'm over crying about
things I don't like. Elections
have consequences. This

23:50.700 --> 23:55.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
feels different to someone who's
done this a long time. This
feels like a government that

23:55.700 --> 23:59.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
has chosen the very wealthy over
working class and middle class.

23:59.533 --> 24:02.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
You look at this Big
Beautiful Bill, not my name,

24:02.700 --> 24:07.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
theirs, over the summer. You
see over 16 million people
who will lose their health

24:09.533 --> 24:13.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
care. You see the effort
to pass tax breaks for
millionaires over extending

24:15.100 --> 24:19.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
help for those whose premium
is about to go up. That's what
Democrats are fighting for.

24:21.500 --> 24:23.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
They did it alone in the
summer, and now they want
Democrats to acquiesce

24:23.833 --> 24:27.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
after health care has been
obliterated. And Democrats
are saying, no, thank you.

24:27.733 --> 24:29.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
GEOFF BENNETT: Shalanda
Young, thank you for being
here. We appreciate it.

24:29.800 --> 24:34.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
SHALANDA YOUNG: Thank
you for having me.

24:44.133 --> 24:47.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
GEOFF BENNETT: The day's
other headlines begin with
a deadly attack at a British

24:47.433 --> 24:51.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
synagogue on Yom Kippur,
the most solemn day in
the Jewish calendar.

24:51.600 --> 24:54.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Police there are calling
it a terrorist attack.

24:54.300 --> 24:58.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Two people were killed and
four others were seriously
wounded. The attacker,

24:58.466 --> 25:03.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
who officials say was a
35-year-old British citizen of
Syrian descent, was shot dead.

25:05.733 --> 25:08.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Paul Brand of Independent
Television News brings
us this report from the
scene in Manchester.

25:10.500 --> 25:13.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
PAUL BRAND: On the most
holy day of the year for
those of Jewish faith...

25:13.100 --> 25:16.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
MAN: If you're not involved,
move back! Get away! Somebody,

25:16.800 --> 25:20.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
stay with the causalities!
Everybody else, he
has a bomb! Go away!

25:20.500 --> 25:22.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
MAN: He's got a bomb on him?

25:22.300 --> 25:25.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
PAUL BRAND: He's already
driven a car at people
outside the synagogue

25:25.433 --> 25:30.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
in Crumpsall and attacked
others with a knife. Now
police take no chances,

25:32.266 --> 25:35.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
given his third potential
weapon, the suspected
bomb around his waist.

25:37.533 --> 25:41.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
The gunshots prove fatal,
but so did his attack.
For all the attacker's

25:43.733 --> 25:47.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
efforts to take more lives,
security staff likely
saved them by stopping

25:49.100 --> 25:52.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
him from getting inside
the synagogue, as others
nearby were taken to safety.

25:54.700 --> 25:58.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
JOSH ARONSON, Eyewitness:
As they evacuated us, I
walked past the rabbi,

26:00.366 --> 26:03.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Rabbi Daniel Walker.
Now, they were pushing us
forward. But I did see. Now,

26:05.333 --> 26:09.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
on this day, it's a day of
prayer. And on this day,
we pray with a long white

26:11.500 --> 26:15.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
robe on this day. And I saw
at the bottom of the robe
there were specks of blood.

26:17.266 --> 26:21.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
PAUL BRAND: It was hours before
police could get near the
suspect to identify him. First,

26:23.200 --> 26:26.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
bomb disposal teams had to be
called in before what sounded
like a controlled explosion.

26:28.933 --> 26:33.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
In this picture, you can
see a knife lying near
the attacker's head with

26:33.666 --> 26:38.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
the suspected bomb to his right,
just one clue as to his motive.

26:40.600 --> 26:42.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
SIR STEPHEN WATSON, Chief
Constable, Greater Manchester
Police: This attack

26:42.766 --> 26:44.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
has been officially declared
as a terrorist incident and
the investigation is now being

26:47.000 --> 26:51.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
led by counterterrorist police.
As has been confirmed by C.T.
policing we believe that the

26:54.633 --> 26:59.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
identity of the offender has
been established, but until
we are certain of this fact,

27:01.433 --> 27:05.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
it is premature to set out
this detail at this juncture.

27:05.333 --> 27:10.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
PAUL BRAND: This part
of Manchester is home to
Britain's second largest
Jewish population,

27:10.066 --> 27:14.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
but it's home to other
communities too. As in
many cities, the relations,

27:14.633 --> 27:19.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
the potential tensions between
them have been a cause of
acute concern in recent years,

27:21.300 --> 27:24.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
the fear that global
events could make people
local targets of hatred.

27:26.433 --> 27:29.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
This afternoon, the prime
minister flew home from
a European summit in

27:29.600 --> 27:34.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Denmark to chair an emergency
meeting and reassure
the Jewish community.

27:34.533 --> 27:39.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
KEIR STARMER, British Prime
Minister: Earlier today, a vile
individual committed a terrorist

27:41.500 --> 27:44.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
attack and attacked Jews
because they are Jews. And so
I promise you that I will do

27:47.333 --> 27:52.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
everything in my power
to guarantee you the
security that you deserve,

27:54.100 --> 27:57.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
starting with a more
visible police presence
protecting your community.

27:59.666 --> 28:03.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
PAUL BRAND: Yom Kippur is a time
of repentance for Jewish people,
of confessing sins. But as

28:05.633 --> 28:09.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
they worship in Crumpsall
tonight, who will atone for the
violence committed against them?

28:10.266 --> 28:13.100 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
Paul Brand, ITV
News, Manchester.

28:13.100 --> 28:16.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
GEOFF BENNETT: Also today,
President Trump says
the U.S. is now in armed

28:16.700 --> 28:20.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
conflict with drug cartels
operating in the Caribbean.
That's according to

28:20.400 --> 28:24.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
a memo that was sent to
Congress and obtained by
multiple media outlets.

28:24.700 --> 28:29.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
The document reportedly refers
to cartel members as -- quote
-- "unlawful combatants"

28:29.100 --> 28:33.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
and states that the
U.S. must use force in
self-defense and defense

28:33.500 --> 28:38.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
of others against the ongoing
attacks by these designated
terrorist organizations.

28:38.300 --> 28:42.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
News of the memo first reported
by The New York Times comes
after President Trump posted

28:42.933 --> 28:47.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
videos like this of strikes
on boats that he claimed were
bringing drugs to the U.S.

28:47.900 --> 28:52.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Human rights groups and several
U.S. senators have questioned
the legality of those strikes.

28:55.166 --> 28:58.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
The White House is asking
nine major universities
to align themselves
with President Trump's

28:58.300 --> 29:02.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
political priorities in exchange
for federal funding. Schools
would have to agree to certain

29:02.700 --> 29:07.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
terms related to women's
sports, free speech
on campus and student
discipline, among others. And

29:09.833 --> 29:13.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
international enrollment would
be capped at 15 percent of the
undergraduate student body.

29:15.433 --> 29:18.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
In exchange, schools would get
priority access to some federal
grants. The nine institutions

29:20.266 --> 29:23.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
include the University of
Pennsylvania, Brown, the
University of Texas at Austin,

29:23.433 --> 29:28.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
and MIT. It was not
immediately clear how those
schools were chosen or
whether others may follow.

29:30.166 --> 29:33.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Officials in Memphis
are preparing for the
arrival of additional

29:33.266 --> 29:38.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
federal authorities as part of
a broader Trump administration
push into the nation's cities.

29:40.166 --> 29:42.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Senior administration officials
visited Memphis yesterday,
with White House Deputy

29:42.633 --> 29:47.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Chief of Staff Stephen Miller
telling officers they're being
unleashed to tackle crime there.

29:49.566 --> 29:52.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Democratic Congressman
Steve Cohen, who represents
Memphis, is pushing back,

29:52.400 --> 29:57.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
writing that: "We are
not a training ground or
target practice," while,
in Oregon, a judge is

29:59.500 --> 30:02.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
set to hear a legal challenge
tomorrow against the deployment
of National Guard troops there,

30:04.566 --> 30:07.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
all that as some immigrant
communities in Chicago
are on edge after federal

30:07.733 --> 30:12.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
authorities carried out a late
night raid this past week,
arresting at least 37 people.

30:14.266 --> 30:18.233 align:left position:30% line:77% size:60%
In Gaza, Israeli
attacks killed dozens of
Palestinians overnight,

30:18.233 --> 30:21.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
as the world waits for
an official response
from Hamas to President

30:21.833 --> 30:26.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Trump's proposal on ending
the war. According to
hospitals in the region,

30:26.300 --> 30:31.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
at least 41 people were killed
across the Strip by Israeli
airstrikes and ground attacks.

30:33.466 --> 30:36.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Meantime, several boats bound
for Gaza began trickling into
Israeli ports today after they

30:38.600 --> 30:42.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
were intercepted by Israel's
military. Hundreds on board were
arrested, including European

30:44.433 --> 30:47.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
lawmakers and climate
activist Greta Thunberg,
who recorded this video
before being detained.

30:49.933 --> 30:52.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
GRETA THUNBERG, Climate
Activist: If you are
watching this video, I
have been abducted and

30:52.066 --> 30:56.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
taken against my will by Israeli
forces. Our humanitarian mission
was nonviolent and abiding

30:58.666 --> 31:02.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
by international law.
Please tell my government
to demand my and the
others' immediate release.

31:08.333 --> 31:10.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
PROTESTER: Free, free
Palestine! PROTESTERS:
Free, free Palestine!

31:10.500 --> 31:13.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
GEOFF BENNETT: Protests broke
out in cities across the world
today, condemning Israel's

31:13.600 --> 31:18.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
interception of the aid
flotilla and its ongoing
military campaign in Gaza.

31:20.566 --> 31:23.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Back in this country,
authorities are investigating
what they call a low-speed

31:23.333 --> 31:28.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
collision involving two Delta
Air Lines' regional jets
at New York's La Guardia

31:28.000 --> 31:32.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Airport last night. The
cockpit of one plane was
damaged in the incident,

31:32.066 --> 31:37.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
as was the wing of the other.
This animation shows the path of
the two planes on the taxiway.

31:39.433 --> 31:43.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
One was preparing to take
off to Virginia while the
other had just arrived
from North Carolina.

31:45.100 --> 31:47.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
In a statement, Delta
apologized to its customers
and said the airline will work

31:47.633 --> 31:51.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
with all relevant authorities to
review what occurred. One flight

31:51.466 --> 31:55.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
attendant was taken
to the hospital with
non-life-threatening injuries.

31:55.533 --> 32:00.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
The FDA's approval of another
generic version of the abortion
pill mifepristone has sparked

32:02.533 --> 32:06.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
a fierce conservative backlash.
Drugmaker Evita Solutions
said that officials signed

32:08.166 --> 32:11.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
off on its low-cost form of the
pill, which is approved to end
pregnancies through 10 weeks.

32:13.033 --> 32:15.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
The group Students For
Life Action called the
approval a stain on the

32:15.600 --> 32:20.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Trump presidency and
another sign that the deep
state at the FDA must go.

32:22.100 --> 32:24.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
The criticism comes as Health
Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

32:24.400 --> 32:29.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
faces growing pressure
to restrict abortion
access. Mifepristone
was first approved 25

32:31.333 --> 32:34.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
years ago and has been
repeatedly ruled safe and
effective by FDA scientists.

32:36.866 --> 32:40.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
On Wall Street today, stocks
crept higher thanks to
gains in technology shares.

32:40.233 --> 32:44.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
The Dow Jones industrial
average added nearly
80 points. The Nasdaq

32:44.066 --> 32:49.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
rose almost 90 points.
The S&P 500 ended just a
touch higher on the day.

32:50.900 --> 32:53.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Still to come on the "News
Hour": a refugee living
in the U.S. expresses

32:53.466 --> 32:58.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
fears of being deported to
a country he barely knows;
and a book on the history

32:58.166 --> 33:03.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
of the Israeli-Palestinian peace
process gives valuable insight
into the current negotiations.

33:13.100 --> 33:18.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: Two COVID-era
Medicare programs,
telehealth benefits and
in-home hospital care,

33:27.200 --> 33:32.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
have ended abruptly for
millions of Americans as
a result of the government
shutdown. Authorization

33:34.366 --> 33:37.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
for both expired on September
30 and Congress failed to pass
a new budget plan for either.

33:39.700 --> 33:43.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
That means many seniors on
Medicare can no longer use
telehealth services. The program

33:45.000 --> 33:48.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
now reverts to pre-pandemic
criteria, meaning Medicare
enrollees in rural

33:48.300 --> 33:53.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
areas can still use telehealth,
but in a designated hospital
or clinic. Meanwhile,

33:55.400 --> 33:58.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
in-home care recipients will
either be discharged or go back
into inpatient hospital care.

34:00.400 --> 34:02.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
For more on this, I'm joined by
Kyle Zebley. He's senior vice

34:02.466 --> 34:06.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
president of public
policy at the American
Telemedicine Association.

34:06.300 --> 34:08.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Thank you for being here.

34:08.633 --> 34:09.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
KYLE ZEBLEY, Senior Vice
President of Public Policy,
American Telemedicine
Association: It's

34:09.733 --> 34:11.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
great to be here.
Thanks so much.

34:11.233 --> 34:12.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: Let's take each
of these programs in turn.

34:12.800 --> 34:14.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
When it comes to telehealth
and the virtual appointments,

34:14.333 --> 34:17.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
we saw a surge of use in the
pandemic, some seven million

34:17.500 --> 34:22.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
people using it last year.
Who's going to be most
impacted by this shutdown?

34:22.066 --> 34:26.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
KYLE ZEBLEY: By our
older Americans and most
disabled Americans. They
had access to something

34:26.133 --> 34:30.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
when they went to bed on
Tuesday night. They woke
up with the government
shutdown on Wednesday,

34:30.866 --> 34:35.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
and they found out that they
no longer have access to these
programs and flexibilities

34:37.933 --> 34:40.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
that have been in place for
more than five years, since
the beginning of the decade,

34:40.066 --> 34:45.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
since right before the real
impact of the COVID-19 pandemic
came to the United States.

34:47.100 --> 34:48.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: And the change
is now reverting to these
pre-pandemic criteria. Explain

34:48.966 --> 34:52.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
that to me. If you're
enrolled in Medicare and
you live in a rural area,

34:52.066 --> 34:54.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
you can still use it, but
in a very specific way?

34:54.700 --> 34:59.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
KYLE ZEBLEY: That's right. And
you said it well at the outset.
You have to meet two criteria.

34:59.100 --> 35:02.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
And you have to meet
both. You have to be in a
defined rural area and you

35:02.633 --> 35:06.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
have to be within the four walls
of a Medicare provider's office.

35:06.300 --> 35:10.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
It's head-spinning to go
back to these restrictions.
They were put in place

35:10.466 --> 35:15.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
in law in 1997. That may
have been advanced at
that time. The technology

35:15.333 --> 35:18.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
had moved forward leaps
and bounds by the beginning
of the decade, before the

35:18.466 --> 35:23.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
COVID-19 pandemic. We had
been clamoring to get these
flexibilities put in place.

35:23.433 --> 35:27.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
And it took the COVID-19
pandemic to do it.
Now, unfortunately,

35:27.266 --> 35:31.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
all that progress goes
away and has been now two
days into this shutdown.

35:31.900 --> 35:35.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: So, potentially,
we're talking about millions of
people having their health care,

35:35.500 --> 35:38.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
access to health care
impacted. What does
that mean, big picture?

35:38.533 --> 35:40.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
KYLE ZEBLEY: Well, it
means, most importantly,

35:40.666 --> 35:44.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
that patients are worse off
today. They have less access
than they did two days ago.

35:44.300 --> 35:49.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
It means that, for patients
receiving cancer care, mental
health areas of treatment,

35:51.066 --> 35:55.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
primary care treatments
and visits, they no
longer have access to this

35:57.233 --> 35:59.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
care that's clinically
appropriate care, that
meets them where they are,

35:59.100 --> 36:02.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
that is far more flexible
than, of course, going
into in-person settings.

36:02.400 --> 36:06.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
It drags us backwards, not
only to the beginning of
the decade, really, again,

36:06.400 --> 36:11.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
in effect, in 1997, when these
provisions were previously
put into place in law.

36:13.366 --> 36:15.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
AMNA NAWAZ: And hospital
systems, health care providers
have a choice to make here,

36:15.833 --> 36:20.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
I assume. Could they continue
to provide this care and
hope they get reimbursed?
Are any doing that?

36:22.700 --> 36:25.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
KYLE ZEBLEY: So, many are
making really tough decisions.
They are either making the

36:25.033 --> 36:29.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
determination that they
don't have the financial
wherewithal to potentially
eat these costs. And,

36:29.200 --> 36:32.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
therefore, unfortunately,
they're alerting
patients now every day,

36:32.300 --> 36:35.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
every hour, practically
speaking, across the
country that they're
no longer going to get

36:35.900 --> 36:39.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
those telehealth services they
have come to rely on that's
expanded access to care.

36:39.900 --> 36:42.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
There are other health
care systems and Medicare
providers and provider

36:42.800 --> 36:45.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
groups that are saying, we're
going to weather the storm,

36:45.266 --> 36:48.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
at least for a little while.
We're going to continue to
offer these services because

36:48.633 --> 36:52.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
we want to continue to
offer care to these patients
we care so much about.

36:54.666 --> 36:57.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
And, hopefully, the federal
government and Congress
will come together,

36:57.266 --> 37:02.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
bring these programs
back, and retroactively
pay for the services
that were rendered during

37:04.200 --> 37:06.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
this lapse. That's certainly
what we're asking for.
And we hope our bipartisan

37:06.366 --> 37:10.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
telehealth champions will
get it done when cooler heads
prevail and the shutdown ends.

37:10.533 --> 37:12.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
AMNA NAWAZ: There's
also this other program,

37:12.100 --> 37:14.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
the in-home hospital services
program that's been paused.

37:14.866 --> 37:18.000 align:left position:30% line:77% size:60%
So, patients, my
understanding, are basically
monitored virtually,

37:18.000 --> 37:22.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
and they get daily provider
visits. So what happens
to those patients now?

37:22.933 --> 37:26.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
KYLE ZEBLEY: This is really
clear-cut. If there's any
ambiguity or flexibility that

37:26.633 --> 37:30.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
is present for the Medicare
telehealth flexibilities,
that's not present here.

37:30.466 --> 37:34.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
The Office of Management
and Budget and the
administration has made very

37:34.133 --> 37:39.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
clear that that program
has ended, and it ended
effective October 1 yesterday.

37:41.133 --> 37:43.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
And they had instructed anybody
that was participating in
that program they need to

37:43.733 --> 37:48.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
be either, as you said, sent
home or they need to go back
into a hospital setting.

37:48.466 --> 37:52.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
They were comfortable
at their home. They
were getting clinically
appropriate care. They were

37:52.233 --> 37:55.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
getting care that they wanted
to receive in this manner
at a convalescent home.

37:55.500 --> 38:00.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
It also opened up capacity
in the hospitals. That
capacity increase has
now, of course, gone away,

38:02.900 --> 38:06.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
and it's really stressing
our overburdened health
care system to force this
to go back into place.

38:07.900 --> 38:09.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
AMNA NAWAZ: Even just in
the last 24, 48 hours,

38:09.766 --> 38:12.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
are you seeing the impact
of that? Are facilities
becoming more crowded?

38:12.366 --> 38:16.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
KYLE ZEBLEY: Oh, it's a
devastating impact. It set us
back again significantly from

38:16.933 --> 38:20.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
bipartisan hard-won progress
that we have made since the
beginning of the pandemic.

38:20.866 --> 38:22.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
What's a real tragedy
about this is,

38:22.833 --> 38:26.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
yes, Americans are losing
out. They're losing out
every day, increasingly so,

38:26.533 --> 38:31.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
the longer that these
flexibilities have lapsed.
And it's a real shame
because these are popular

38:31.200 --> 38:36.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
bipartisan programs put in place
by President Trump, kept in
place on a bipartisan basis in

38:36.000 --> 38:40.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Congress really with no stated
opposition throughout the
Biden/Harris administration.

38:40.400 --> 38:42.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
President Trump's been
on the record in support.

38:42.633 --> 38:46.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
He already signed an extension
of these flexibilities
earlier this year. We really

38:46.633 --> 38:51.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
want to get out of these short
-- the short-term thinking, get
out of this discussion of having

38:51.200 --> 38:55.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
endless short-term extensions.
These programs should be made
permanent. And if things were

38:55.833 --> 38:59.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
functioning as I think they
should, we would have been
made permanent long ago.

38:59.600 --> 39:01.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But here we are, despite
all that broad-based

39:01.733 --> 39:06.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
popularity, caught up as
a victim of circumstance
because of the shutdown.

39:06.466 --> 39:11.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
AMNA NAWAZ: Well, until
that shutdown ends, for
anyone watching this at
home who may be impacted

39:11.266 --> 39:15.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
by either one of these changes,
what's your best advice to
them? What are their options?

39:15.800 --> 39:20.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
KYLE ZEBLEY: Well, their
options are to hope that their
providers and their health care

39:22.766 --> 39:25.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
systems that they're working
with have the ability to
continue to deliver that care,

39:25.266 --> 39:27.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
even though they might not
be covered and reimbursed.

39:27.600 --> 39:32.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
But most importantly
and ideally, they pick
up the phone, they call
their member of Congress,

39:32.400 --> 39:36.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
and they say please end this
shutdown of the Medicare
telehealth flexibilities and

39:36.700 --> 39:40.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
acute hospital care at home.
You don't want to sit on the
sidelines if you care about

39:40.533 --> 39:44.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
this if your loved ones
are depending on it, if you
yourself are depending on it.

39:44.466 --> 39:49.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
You need to have that
agency to try to make sure
Congress gets the message
that it's unacceptable

39:51.466 --> 39:54.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
to have these popular bipartisan
programs lapse. And we
shouldn't be a victim of this

39:54.633 --> 39:59.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
other dynamic that has nothing
to do with our community and the
people that rely on telehealth.

39:59.400 --> 40:02.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
AMNA NAWAZ: Kyle Zebley
with the American
Telemedicine Association,

40:02.533 --> 40:03.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
thank you so much
for being here.

40:03.966 --> 40:07.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
KYLE ZEBLEY: Thank you.

40:07.266 --> 40:12.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
GEOFF BENNETT:

40:14.466 --> 40:19.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
As President Trump
intensifies his sweeping
crackdown on immigration,
more longtime residents,

40:21.100 --> 40:24.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
people who have lived in this
country for years, are being
caught up in the effort.

40:24.000 --> 40:26.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Stephanie Sy has more.

40:26.433 --> 40:28.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
STEPHANIE SY: We have seen over
and over again this year the

40:28.866 --> 40:33.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
detention of U.S. residents
who were previously not
at risk of deportation.

40:35.666 --> 40:38.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
This has included Laotian
refugees displaced
after the Vietnam War.

40:38.900 --> 40:43.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Students of history might
recall that Laos was bombed
relentlessly by the U.S.

40:43.300 --> 40:48.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
in the 1960s and 70s. In
the tumultuous years that
followed the end of the war,

40:49.966 --> 40:53.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
thousands of Laotian
families were resettled
in the U.S. as refugees.

40:53.866 --> 40:58.033 align:left position:30% line:77% size:60%
Now, a criminal
conviction can threaten
a refugee's legal status,

40:58.033 --> 41:03.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
but, for decades, Laotians in
that situation were allowed to
remain here because there is

41:05.066 --> 41:08.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
no repatriation agreement
between the U.S. and Laos. That
has changed. In recent months,

41:10.066 --> 41:14.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
deportation flights to
Laos have resumed for
the first time in years.

41:14.466 --> 41:18.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
One of those affected is Alan
Phetsadakone. He arrived in the

41:18.533 --> 41:23.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
United States as a toddler.
And today he faces the
threat of deportation.

41:23.433 --> 41:25.933 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
Alan, thank you
for being with us.

41:25.933 --> 41:28.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE,
Laotian Refugee: Thank
you for having me.

41:28.066 --> 41:31.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
STEPHANIE SY: I want to go
back to what happened over the
summer, when you were detained.

41:31.600 --> 41:35.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
It's July. You go in for
an annual appointment
with immigration officials

41:35.733 --> 41:39.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
that I understand you have
gone to without incident for
years. But you end up being

41:39.833 --> 41:44.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
detained for nearly two
months. Alan, what was your
immediate reaction when

41:44.733 --> 41:49.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
you were arrested? What
were you told about why
this was happening to you?

41:49.733 --> 41:53.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE: First of
all, I was shocked, scared,

41:53.533 --> 41:58.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
worried. I was just
speechless. And I couldn't
think of anything else.

42:00.633 --> 42:05.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Everything was taken away
from me. Just in the blink
of an eye, I lost everything,

42:07.700 --> 42:11.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
just not knowing what's going to
happen next, not knowing what's
going to happen to my life,

42:11.900 --> 42:16.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
my family, my kids, just all the
loved ones, not knowing what's
going to happen to myself.

42:18.766 --> 42:22.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
The ICE agent had mentioned
to me that my supervision
had been revoked,

42:23.900 --> 42:27.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
and that was all I was told.

42:27.100 --> 42:32.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
STEPHANIE SY: OK, and so
then you're in this facility
in Tacoma for two months.

42:33.833 --> 42:37.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
What were conditions like? How
were you housed? And were you

42:37.333 --> 42:40.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
able to see your
children and your family?

42:40.400 --> 42:45.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE: Yes,
I was fortunate enough to
see my family, my life,

42:46.733 --> 42:51.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
my kids, just because I'm
local here in Seattle.

42:53.166 --> 42:56.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
The housing unit I was in, we
-- they housed around 70 to 80
detainees at any given time.

42:59.766 --> 43:04.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
It's an open unit. The
light stays on 24 hours
a day. You just have
four walls, no windows,

43:06.966 --> 43:11.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
limited time to be in
the outdoor yard. It's
frustrating. It leaves
you hopeless, stressed.

43:17.500 --> 43:21.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
STEPHANIE SY: I want to
talk a little bit more about
your distant past, because,

43:21.333 --> 43:26.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
when you were detained
back in July, you were
already under a deportation

43:28.466 --> 43:31.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
order that dated back to 1998,
and that was because you had
been convicted on bank fraud.

43:33.500 --> 43:36.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Alan, what do you want
people to understand
and know about that old

43:36.933 --> 43:41.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
conviction and that time
in your life? Because you
were only 18 at that time,

43:43.633 --> 43:46.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
and, from what I have
read, you had had a
really tough childhood.

43:46.433 --> 43:51.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE: Correct. I
had a tough childhood growing
up, losing my brother from

43:53.500 --> 43:57.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
committing suicide, losing my
grandma that raised me, not
having a stable household.

43:59.433 --> 44:02.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
It was just tough growing
up, having a baby, a newborn,

44:02.466 --> 44:07.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
when I was 17. I made a mistake.
And moving forward, I'm an
adult now, and a responsible

44:09.900 --> 44:14.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
adult with a loving family.
I have built my whole entire
life here with my family.

44:17.266 --> 44:20.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
STEPHANIE SY: So you
were released, Alan, by a
federal judge a few weeks
ago, last month. Your

44:22.600 --> 44:26.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
lawyers, from what I understand,
are working on getting that old
case vacated in federal court.

44:27.666 --> 44:30.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
How much time do they
have? Do you know how much

44:30.933 --> 44:35.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
time you have before you
may wake up and have to get
on a plane and be deported?

44:37.500 --> 44:40.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE: I have
no idea. This is one of

44:40.933 --> 44:45.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
the uncertainty that's -- that
I feel as if I'm a lost soul.

44:47.666 --> 44:51.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
And I don't know what's
going to happen to me
tomorrow or two months

44:51.500 --> 44:55.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
from now or a year from
now. I don't know. And
it puts my life on hold,

44:55.433 --> 45:00.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
and my family's life and
everybody that's close to
me. That's stressful. And
even though -- however,

45:02.566 --> 45:07.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
I'm released. I'm thankful. But
the stress and the uncertainty
is -- it's never going away.

45:09.233 --> 45:14.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
STEPHANIE SY: And your wife
and your kids, they are U.S.
citizens, right? How are they

45:14.133 --> 45:19.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
coping with all of this?
And is there sort of a
worst-case scenario that
you can prepare for?

45:21.533 --> 45:25.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE: We
haven't prepared, because
we never thought that
this day would come. After

45:27.233 --> 45:31.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
25 years, 30 years, we just
never thought back of it. We
have never prepared for this.

45:33.266 --> 45:36.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
Kind of talked more
about it this year
because of what we see on

45:36.800 --> 45:41.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
the news of what's going
on. It never got out of
our sight since this year.

45:43.566 --> 45:46.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
STEPHANIE SY: Alan, what
worst-case scenario might
you be preparing for

45:46.300 --> 45:51.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
at this point? Could you
start over in Laos? Have
you thought about that?

45:53.033 --> 45:55.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE: I
have not thought about
starting over in Laos,

45:55.333 --> 46:00.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
as I -- I don't know where
to start and where to begin.
I don't have any family.

46:02.533 --> 46:05.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
As -- you know, if I got sent
back to Laos, I would just be
on my own. I wouldn't know where

46:07.733 --> 46:12.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
to begin. It'll be a
brand-new country, a brand-new
life at such an old age.

46:16.533 --> 46:21.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
So I don't know where to
begin. I don't know where
to start. Everything I
have known, that's here.

46:24.533 --> 46:26.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
STEPHANIE SY: I understand
you have been getting a

46:26.466 --> 46:30.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
lot of support from
people who have heard your
story, including those...

46:30.333 --> 46:32.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE: Yes.

46:32.133 --> 46:33.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
STEPHANIE SY: ... who
have raised money for
your family on GoFundMe.

46:33.733 --> 46:36.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Can you talk about what
that support has meant to

46:36.233 --> 46:41.166 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
you and your family and
what else you feel you
really need right now?

46:41.166 --> 46:44.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE: You
know, that support has been

46:44.000 --> 46:49.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
tremendous. It's been
everything. It's been
a reflection of me just
being a good person,

46:53.600 --> 46:58.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
moving on from my past,
building a community,
having my family around.

47:01.733 --> 47:05.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
What I need now is just
the support and the

47:05.200 --> 47:10.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
fight to prevail from this --
from this immigration madness.

47:11.733 --> 47:14.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
STEPHANIE SY: Alan, thank you
so much for agreeing to share

47:14.300 --> 47:17.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
your story with us. We
wish you the best of luck.

47:17.633 --> 47:19.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
ALAN PHETSADAKONE:
Thank you, Stephanie.

47:19.733 --> 47:22.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
GEOFF BENNETT: And, late today,
the "News Hour" received a
response from the Department of

47:22.466 --> 47:27.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
Homeland Security about
this case, saying he
has four convictions for
larceny and fraud, going on

47:29.533 --> 47:33.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
to say -- quote -- "Thanks to an
activist judge, this criminal is
now loose on America's streets."

47:36.933 --> 47:41.933 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
AMNA NAWAZ:

47:44.300 --> 47:49.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
Leaders from Egypt,
Qatar and Turkey are
all trying to convince
Hamas to accept President

47:51.633 --> 47:54.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Trump's peace plan to end
the war in Gaza. That's
a plan Israel has already
agreed to. Hamas is

47:56.333 --> 47:59.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
still weighing the deal, but
reportedly considers some
parts of it unacceptable.

47:59.666 --> 48:03.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
It's a crucial moment, and it's
a continuation of past American

48:03.500 --> 48:06.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
efforts to end the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

48:06.800 --> 48:10.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Nick Schifrin has more on
the historical context.

48:10.133 --> 48:14.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
NICK SCHIFRIN: For decades, the
U.S. has tried to resolve the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

48:14.133 --> 48:19.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Those efforts, despite deep
passion among the mediators and
endless work with both sides,

48:19.100 --> 48:24.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
failed. Why? And is there a
direct line from the success of
the Oslo Accords in 1993 to the

48:26.033 --> 48:30.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
horrific violence of the
October 7 terrorist attacks and
subsequent Israeli war in Gaza?

48:32.333 --> 48:35.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Those are the questions being
asked by Robert Malley, who 25
years ago participated in peace

48:35.600 --> 48:39.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
talks at Camp David. He
later worked with the
Obama administration
on Mideast peace, as

48:39.733 --> 48:44.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
well as negotiating with
Iran, a role he resumed
during the beginning of
the Biden administration.

48:44.633 --> 48:49.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
And now Malley has written
a new book co-authored
with longtime Palestinian
negotiator Hussein Agha

48:49.433 --> 48:54.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
called "Tomorrow Is Yesterday:
Life, Death, and the Pursuit
of Peace in Israel/Palestine."

48:54.300 --> 48:56.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Rob Malley, thanks very much.
Welcome back to the "News Hour."

48:56.933 --> 49:00.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
The title is "Tomorrow Is
Yesterday." And you write
this in the prologue:

49:00.500 --> 49:03.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
"Israelis and Palestinians
are back where they
were decades ago."

49:03.733 --> 49:07.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
But from the outside, things
look, in many ways, worse
than ever. So why that title?

49:07.900 --> 49:10.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
ROBERT MALLEY, Co-Author,
"Tomorrow Is Yesterday:

49:10.066 --> 49:12.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Life, Death, and the Pursuit
of Peace in Israel/Palestine":
That's a good way to start.

49:12.333 --> 49:14.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
Let's look at where we
are today, which is what
propelled us to write
this book, Palestinians

49:14.533 --> 49:19.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
being forced to flee and
then flee from the area
that they just fled,
and then being bombed in

49:21.300 --> 49:23.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
the place that they were told
to take refuge from the first
bomb, being deprived of food,

49:23.800 --> 49:28.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
of water, everything,
Israelis on October 7 being
the victim of a massacre,
Palestinians resorting

49:30.700 --> 49:35.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
to individual acts of violence,
doing what they can, because
vengeance is their only horizon.

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So, we are where we were
in the past, and the real
question is, how come,
after -- from '92 to now,

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look at where we are, and
the explanation, to really
sum it up in one word,

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is that this American-led peace
process was meaningless. It
was fleeting. It didn't have

49:51.900 --> 49:56.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
any real roots on the
ground with Israelis and
Palestinians. It ended up
being a lot of hot air.

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NICK SCHIFRIN: So let's
go back to where we define
the modern peace process,
1993, the Oslo Accords.

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And you write this -- quote
-- "Israeli and Palestinian
leaders for a while invested

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in diplomacy, but each
diplomatic venture ended
in failure. In the end,

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what mattered was the balance
of power and brute force. Those
who mattered most knew it best."

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How so?

50:21.400 --> 50:23.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
ROBERT MALLEY: Let's look
again at what happened in
Oslo. Each side thought they

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were getting something
that, in fact, they
really didn't achieve.

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The Palestinians thought,
we have made this big
concession by accepting
the fact there would be

50:30.233 --> 50:34.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
an Israeli state, a state
of Israel on the borders
of 1967, and they thought
that, in exchange, they

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were going to get sovereignty,
they were going to get
justice, they were going
to get their state.

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The Israelis thought,
we're going to recognize
the Palestinian Liberation

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Organization as a representative
of the Palestinian
people, and we're going to

50:44.500 --> 50:48.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
give them some ability
to govern themselves. And
in exchange, we're going
to get full security.

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Neither side was prepared to do
what the other side expected of

50:52.100 --> 50:56.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
them. There was never any
congruence between what
the Israelis wanted and

50:56.100 --> 51:01.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
what the Palestinians wanted.
So what were the foundations of
this peace process? Not much.

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And it turns out the Israelis
quickly realized what's going to
matter or facts on the ground,

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settlement construction,
making sure that they
could repress any signs of

51:10.800 --> 51:15.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Palestinian activism. And on
the Palestinian side, they
never really gave up violence,

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because that was the one
language that they felt the
Israelis would understand.

51:19.100 --> 51:21.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
NICK SCHIFRIN: And in the middle
of that were the Americans.

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And this is what you
write about American
participation in this process:

51:28.200 --> 51:31.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
"The American objective was to
get Israelis and Palestinians
to speak the right words,

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sign the right piece of
paper, overcome textual
gaps. The Israeli

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and Palestinian objectives
were to get the Americans
off their backs."

51:39.833 --> 51:43.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
ROBERT MALLEY: We were
so focused on, can we get
them to agree on what it
would mean if they -- if

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there was a Palestinian state,
just words on a piece of paper,
without coming to terms with

51:47.933 --> 51:52.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
the nature of this conflict,
the nature of this beast,
which was a historical
clash of narratives.

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From the Israeli perspective,
they won in 1948. They won
in 1967. And each time,

51:58.900 --> 52:02.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
they keep winning and
the Palestinians keep
asking for more. And the
Palestinians believe that they

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were victims of a historic
injustice in 1948, 700,000
Palestinians expelled,
loss of their land.

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And so for us Americans
to come in and say, well,

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let's just paper over
these differences, forget
about the right of return,

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forget about Israeli historic
grievances and Palestinian
historic grievances,

52:19.833 --> 52:23.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
put a bow around it and call
this peace, that was never
going to fly with the parties.

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You can't but conclude the fact
from what's happened between
the 1990s to today there has

52:28.233 --> 52:31.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
to be a connection between
what happened then and what
happened on October 7 and

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afterward. It's not like
these are two completely
disconnected events.

52:34.300 --> 52:35.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
NICK SCHIFRIN: What do you
see that connection as?

52:35.600 --> 52:37.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
ROBERT MALLEY: The
connection is, again,

52:37.166 --> 52:41.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
the failures of these efforts to
reach this two-state solution.

52:41.100 --> 52:44.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
On the ground, everything
was moving in the direction
that was inconsistent

52:44.800 --> 52:49.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
with the two-state
solution. And Americans
and Europeans and others
were repeating the mantra,

52:49.200 --> 52:52.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
we're moving toward a two-state
solution, an irreversible
path to two-state solution.

52:52.800 --> 52:55.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
NICK SCHIFRIN: And yet you
and Hussein do write this:
"There were moments when

52:55.866 --> 53:00.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
a different outcome might
have been possible, but
history would have needed
a mediator with vision,

53:02.666 --> 53:05.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
nuanced understanding
of the politics and
psychology of the two sides,

53:05.033 --> 53:09.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and a willingness to exert power
equally on and against both."

53:09.400 --> 53:11.366 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
ROBERT MALLEY: Sure.

53:11.366 --> 53:13.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
I think there was a naivete
in thinking at times that
we were close to a deal,

53:13.333 --> 53:17.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
when nothing had been
achieved, and I think just
strategic misunderstanding

53:19.133 --> 53:21.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
of the conflict. The
origins of this idea of
a two-state solution,

53:21.266 --> 53:24.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
they didn't start with
Israelis or Palestinians. They
started from the outside.

53:24.133 --> 53:28.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
This notion of partition
was alien, and Israelis
and Palestinians never

53:28.700 --> 53:33.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
were enthusiastic about it.
It was never their natural
landing place. And, today,

53:33.666 --> 53:37.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
with everything having moved
in the opposite direction, with
each side convinced that the

53:37.600 --> 53:41.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
other side wants its
destruction, its eradication,
how could there be support

53:41.333 --> 53:45.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
for a two-state solution
other than in the hallways
of diplomatic corridors?

53:45.733 --> 53:50.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
NICK SCHIFRIN: In the end, you
write this: "This emotional and
existential clash will be truly

53:50.000 --> 53:55.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
settled not through adroit
verbal gymnastics, but
through a more painful
and honest reckoning."

53:56.100 --> 53:58.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
What is that reckoning?

53:58.300 --> 54:00.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
ROBERT MALLEY: It's a reckoning
with the fact that both sides
have this historic -- these

54:00.266 --> 54:03.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
yearnings, this historic
attachment to the land.
Israeli Jews feel very

54:03.433 --> 54:06.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
differently about --
many of them, about what
the land means to them.

54:06.633 --> 54:09.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Palestinians have this whole
conception of history and,
again, the right of return for

54:09.900 --> 54:14.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
refugees. So let's not aim
for the sky and say we need
immediate peace. At a minimum,

54:16.700 --> 54:19.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
they need to coexist,
coexist as equals on the
land that they both share.

54:19.633 --> 54:22.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
NICK SCHIFRIN: Let's talk
about Iran briefly. During
the Biden administration,

54:22.400 --> 54:26.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
you were the special envoy for
negotiating with Iran, but you
were suspended for that job.

54:26.233 --> 54:28.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Can you tell us why?

54:28.033 --> 54:30.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
ROBERT MALLEY: I was
told that it had to --
the investigation had

54:30.233 --> 54:34.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
to do with an alleged
mishandling of classified
information. I was not told

54:34.233 --> 54:37.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
then what they were looking
at. I don't -- still don't
know what they were looking at,

54:37.666 --> 54:40.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
and I may well go to my
grave without knowing
what they were looking at.

54:40.300 --> 54:43.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
What I do know is that, after
two years of investigation,

54:43.033 --> 54:46.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
the Department of Justice
told my lawyers that the
investigation had -- has been

54:46.700 --> 54:50.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
closed. So it's a bit odd.
It's a bit Kafkaesque,
but it is what it is.

54:50.933 --> 54:54.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
NICK SCHIFRIN: Rob Malley, the
book is "Tomorrow Is Yesterday:

54:54.533 --> 54:57.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Life, Death, and the Pursuit
of Peace in Israel/Palestine."

54:57.666 --> 54:58.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Thanks very much.

54:58.600 --> 55:00.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
ROBERT MALLEY: Thank you.

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AMNA NAWAZ: And that
is the "News Hour" for
tonight. I'm Amna Nawaz.

55:02.933 --> 55:05.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
GEOFF BENNETT: And
I'm Geoff Bennett.

55:05.133 --> 55:08.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
For all of us here at the "PBS
News Hour," thanks for spending
part of your evening with us.