WEBVTT 00:02.366 --> 00:05.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% GEOFF BENNETT: President Biden announced new plans to cancel student debt for millions of borrowers. 00:06.033 --> 00:08.333 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Lisa Desjardins is here with more. 00:08.333 --> 00:12.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So, Lisa, this is President Biden's broadest attempt at student loan debt forgiveness since 00:14.833 --> 00:16.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the U.S. Supreme Court struck down his previous effort more than a year ago. Is that right? 00:16.966 --> 00:19.333 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% LISA DESJARDINS: That's right, Geoff. 00:19.333 --> 00:22.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% The administration did not give final details of their plan today, but they did outline executive 00:22.800 --> 00:27.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% actions that they're teeing up. Those would eliminate at least $20,000 in accrued interest 00:29.900 --> 00:33.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for those who owe more than their original loan, offer more for those with lower incomes, 00:35.733 --> 00:39.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% cancel remaining debt for anyone who has spent 20 or 25 years, depending on the loan, 00:39.166 --> 00:44.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% repaying their loans, and void loans from college programs that were proven to be deceptive. 00:45.200 --> 00:47.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Biden spoke about the move today. 00:47.466 --> 00:49.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: By freeing millions of Americans from this 00:49.500 --> 00:53.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% crushing debt of student debt, it means they can finally get on with their lives, 00:53.233 --> 00:56.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% instead of being put -- their lives being put on hold. 00:56.733 --> 00:58.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Danielle Douglas-Gabriel covers 00:58.666 --> 01:02.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% the economics of higher education for The Washington Post and joins me now. 01:02.800 --> 01:07.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Danielle, the White House says some 23 million Americans could be affected by this, and a 01:10.066 --> 01:13.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% financial boost for them. Help us understand, who exactly does the White House think this helps? 01:15.100 --> 01:17.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DANIELLE DOUGLAS-GABRIEL, The Washington Post: Sure. 01:17.133 --> 01:20.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% So, the vast majority of federal student loan borrowers could see some relief under 01:20.000 --> 01:24.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% this plan. And it's important to note there are many facets to the plan, five categories 01:24.700 --> 01:29.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% of borrowers in total, but perhaps the largest category that could deliver relief is the one 01:29.700 --> 01:34.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that eliminates up to $20,000 in student loan interest from a borrower's balance. 01:36.600 --> 01:41.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% This is pretty common that borrowers may have borrowed, say, $20,000, but, 01:41.266 --> 01:44.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because of the way interest accrues on student loans, could owe twice as much 01:44.533 --> 01:47.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% over the lifetime of their loan. So, this proposal would really help those 01:47.966 --> 01:52.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% folks. And the White House is saying about 25 million people will benefit from that part. 01:52.133 --> 01:57.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But 23 million of that 25 could get their interest completely eliminated under this plan. 01:58.833 --> 02:00.966 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% LISA DESJARDINS: As you indicate, this is a complex proposal. 02:00.966 --> 02:04.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, in part, that's because of the Supreme Court's previous decisions, the Biden 02:04.200 --> 02:09.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% administration trying to put something together that they think can remain legally intact. But 02:11.266 --> 02:14.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% help us understand, with all that complexity, when could this actually go into place? 02:17.133 --> 02:19.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DANIELLE DOUGLAS-GABRIEL: So what's interesting here is that most of us who have been watching 02:19.100 --> 02:22.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% this law -- and keep in mind that the regulations started to be crafted right 02:22.066 --> 02:26.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% after the Supreme Court struck down Biden's last attempt at this large-scale debt relief. 02:26.600 --> 02:30.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But we thought, many of us, that the full regulation wouldn't be 02:30.633 --> 02:34.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% implemented until next summer. But the Biden administration has zeroed in on a couple 02:34.800 --> 02:39.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% elements that they could do earlier, most importantly, the interest reduction piece, 02:39.500 --> 02:44.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which the administration says they could likely push out this fall ahead of the election. 02:46.400 --> 02:48.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: We talked about the benefits to many millions of Americans, 02:48.300 --> 02:51.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% but let's also talk about the costs. They too could be substantial. 02:51.100 --> 02:56.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now, we know that the Biden administration has boasted that it canceled about $146 02:57.933 --> 03:00.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% billion in loans. That's from previous programs that they implemented. Now, 03:00.866 --> 03:03.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, 03:03.900 --> 03:08.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% when you add in the pauses in debt relief and other Biden programs that they have put in place, 03:11.200 --> 03:13.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% it's more like $600 billion, by their estimate, that has been spent so far in student debt relief. 03:13.700 --> 03:17.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And we don't know how much this new program will cost. Some, 03:17.300 --> 03:22.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% like Louisiana Republican Bill Cassidy, have repeatedly argued that this is a 03:22.133 --> 03:27.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% wealth transfer from those who have college degree -- to those who have college degrees. 03:29.033 --> 03:31.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Where is the forgiveness for the guy who didn't go to 03:31.333 --> 03:36.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% college, but is working to pay off the loan on the truck he takes to work? What about 03:38.366 --> 03:41.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the woman who paid off her student loans, but either bought a less expensive home, 03:43.500 --> 03:46.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% but is now -- or is now struggling to afford the mortgage that she has? 03:46.400 --> 03:51.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Is the administration providing them relief? No, nada. Of course not. 03:53.200 --> 03:54.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Danielle, how does the administration respond to that 03:54.633 --> 03:56.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% idea that this wildly runs up the national debt 03:56.900 --> 04:01.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% to just give a temporary boost to a very select group of Americans? 04:03.366 --> 04:05.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DANIELLE DOUGLAS-GABRIEL: You know, the administration has 04:05.533 --> 04:08.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% said in the past that the economic benefit of forgiving debt could be tenfold, right? 04:08.500 --> 04:12.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% People are freed up from having to make those payments. They're more likely to 04:12.633 --> 04:16.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% return money to the economy in the forms of purchasing homes, purchasing cars, 04:16.400 --> 04:21.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% spending more in general. I mean, certainly, we did see some boost during the 3.5-year pause of 04:23.700 --> 04:28.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% federal student loans in terms of home purchases before interest rates really started to skyrocket. 04:28.300 --> 04:33.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And perhaps that certainly could be the case if we were to see broader debt relief. But, 04:35.100 --> 04:38.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% yes, the cost of these programs has been up for debate, as well as the utility, 04:38.500 --> 04:42.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because it's not beneficial to all American taxpayers. 04:42.133 --> 04:46.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I think it's important to note that the vast majority of people who have student 04:46.500 --> 04:51.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% loan debt have debt and no degrees. There are about 40 percent of people, 04:53.200 --> 04:55.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% actually. And so these are people who started but didn't finish, 04:55.433 --> 05:00.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and they are dealing with this debt, most of whom are struggling with it, and see no way out. 05:00.466 --> 05:03.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So I think that's really what the president and his administration is trying to get at, 05:03.500 --> 05:07.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% trying to help those people who didn't really get to see the benefit of their education. 05:07.766 --> 05:11.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: This, of course, was part of a 2020 Biden election promise, 05:11.100 --> 05:14.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% but we are yet again in a presidential election year. And as you said, 05:14.500 --> 05:17.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% a big chunk of this, they hope to implement before the election. 05:17.500 --> 05:20.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Can you talk about the politics at play here for the voters that 05:20.800 --> 05:24.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the Biden administration might be concerned about? 05:24.033 --> 05:26.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DANIELLE DOUGLAS-GABRIEL: I mean, it's certainly not surprising that 05:26.100 --> 05:30.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the administration is touting all of the president's accomplishments on student debt, 05:30.033 --> 05:34.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% cleaning up a lot of programs, existing forgiveness programs that weren't operating 05:34.000 --> 05:38.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% well and helping to deliver that $146 billion that you mentioned earlier. 05:38.066 --> 05:42.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And it's certainly not surprising that they are touting this particular plan. 05:42.300 --> 05:47.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Many of us who cover this were hoping to see the final rule issued this week. The 05:47.066 --> 05:50.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Department of Education said it's coming in -- in the coming months, 05:50.266 --> 05:53.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we will see something. And, of course, there will be public comment on that. 05:53.600 --> 05:58.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But I suspect -- and I'm not a politics reporter, but I do suspect that as we near the election, 06:01.000 --> 06:04.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you will see this administration continuing to highlight and uplift the work that they have done 06:04.900 --> 06:09.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to help borrowers, particularly young borrowers, who are an important part of the coalition. 06:11.733 --> 06:12.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Now let's talk about the future of this in the courts. 06:12.666 --> 06:14.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% As soon as this rule comes out, 06:14.800 --> 06:18.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% do you think there could be an injunction against it filed immediately? Do you think 06:18.833 --> 06:23.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that this is clear -- clearly on strong legal grounds? What's going to happen? 06:23.633 --> 06:26.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DANIELLE DOUGLAS-GABRIEL: I mean, certainly, it's on stronger legal grounds, from what 06:26.466 --> 06:30.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% experts are telling me, than the previous rule, because it's backed by a different authority. 06:30.733 --> 06:35.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The Higher Education Act, which governs pretty much all of higher ed in terms of financial 06:35.133 --> 06:40.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% aid and all of those things, is the anchor for this, whereas the other rule was based on a 9/11 06:42.233 --> 06:45.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% kind of emergency power rule that the Supreme Court didn't really think met the smell test. 06:47.366 --> 06:50.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% So, in this instance, I think it will be a little harder to see an immediate 06:50.633 --> 06:55.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% injunction because this went through a negotiated rulemaking process. The 06:55.266 --> 06:59.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% rule is going to come online next July, regardless of who's in office. There will 06:59.800 --> 07:04.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% likely be challenges. And it's certainly - - if the Trump administration were to win, 07:04.800 --> 07:09.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they could choose not to enforce the rule. They could also choose to try to rescind the rule. 07:09.000 --> 07:11.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So that is also a possibility to think about. 07:11.733 --> 07:15.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Danielle Douglas-Gabriel, thank you so much for your reporting on this. 07:15.633 --> 07:20.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DANIELLE DOUGLAS-GABRIEL: Thank you.