WEBVTT 00:05.000 --> 00:06.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% amna: New data from the CDC this 00:06.000 --> 00:07.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% week shows a significant drop in 00:07.000 --> 00:07.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% drug overdose deaths, down 00:08.433 --> 00:13.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% nearly 17% year-over-year from 00:13.900 --> 00:14.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% approximately 113,000 to just 00:14.633 --> 00:17.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% over 94,000. 00:17.033 --> 00:17.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's a rare bit of good news 00:18.300 --> 00:18.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% after decades of rising 00:19.033 --> 00:23.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% fatalities. 00:23.033 --> 00:23.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Nationwide, overdose deaths have 00:24.533 --> 00:25.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% nearly quadrupled since 2002, 00:25.433 --> 00:26.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and spiked to record highs 00:26.233 --> 00:30.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% during the pandemic. 00:31.033 --> 00:31.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But the root causes of this 00:32.166 --> 00:33.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% decline are still unclear. 00:33.133 --> 00:33.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% To unpack it all we're joined 00:33.966 --> 00:34.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% now by Brian Mann, NPR's 00:34.766 --> 00:37.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% national addiction 00:37.066 --> 00:37.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% correspondent. 00:38.566 --> 00:39.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Welcome back and thank you for 00:39.666 --> 00:40.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% joining us. 00:40.666 --> 00:42.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% These are encouraging numbers 00:42.966 --> 00:43.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for sure but poor perspective 00:43.933 --> 00:45.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% even with that drop, annual 00:46.300 --> 00:48.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% overdose deaths are still above 00:48.100 --> 00:48.233 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% 90,000. 00:49.166 --> 00:50.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That would be a record high in 00:51.366 --> 00:52.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% year before 2020. 00:53.333 --> 00:55.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Remind us how those numbers got 00:55.100 --> 00:55.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% so high in the first place. 00:58.266 --> 00:59.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Brian: You know, so we had this 01:00.466 --> 01:02.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% terrible double hit. 01:02.966 --> 01:03.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The covid pandemic came and it 01:03.933 --> 01:04.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% disrupted addiction treatment 01:04.833 --> 01:05.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and public health programs 01:05.500 --> 01:06.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% nationwide. 01:06.966 --> 01:07.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And at the same time, fentanyl 01:08.000 --> 01:09.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% landed, this very toxic, very 01:10.200 --> 01:11.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% powerful street opioid that 01:14.066 --> 01:15.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% comes from Mexico and China. 01:16.433 --> 01:17.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And those together, we saw in 01:17.366 --> 01:17.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% some years a 30% increase in 01:17.900 --> 01:18.100 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% deaths. 01:18.966 --> 01:20.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so to see now this big shift 01:21.233 --> 01:22.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to a 17% decline year over year, 01:23.133 --> 01:24.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that's a big downward trend. 01:25.466 --> 01:26.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Amna: So we know the Biden 01:26.400 --> 01:26.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% administration is taking partial 01:27.200 --> 01:31.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% credit for it. 01:32.566 --> 01:32.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And they point to their efforts 01:33.566 --> 01:34.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to distribute naloxone, the 01:34.466 --> 01:35.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% medicine that can rapidly 01:35.400 --> 01:36.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% reverse an opioid overdose. 01:36.333 --> 01:37.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% They also point to their success 01:37.166 --> 01:37.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% disrupting global drug 01:38.333 --> 01:39.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% trafficking networks. 01:40.366 --> 01:40.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Did that play a role in this 01:40.933 --> 01:42.100 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% decline? 01:43.000 --> 01:43.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Do we know what's behind it? 01:43.966 --> 01:44.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Brian: So there is a mystery 01:44.566 --> 01:45.533 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% here. 01:45.533 --> 01:46.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I mean, this is such a huge 01:46.100 --> 01:48.166 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% decline. 01:49.033 --> 01:49.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's unprecedented in the 01:50.066 --> 01:51.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% history of drug addiction in 01:52.200 --> 01:52.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% America to see a drop this fast. 01:53.233 --> 01:54.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But most of the researchers and 01:54.200 --> 01:56.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% frontline public health workers 01:57.233 --> 01:59.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I talked to do think naloxone is 02:00.600 --> 02:01.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% reversing a lot of overdoses 02:01.566 --> 02:02.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that would otherwise be fatal. 02:02.400 --> 02:02.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% That's playing a role. 02:03.400 --> 02:04.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% There has been an immense effort 02:04.300 --> 02:05.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to target the cartels, and 02:05.200 --> 02:06.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% there's some sign that the 02:06.966 --> 02:07.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% fentanyl reaching American 02:08.500 --> 02:10.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% streets may be weaker and maybe 02:10.133 --> 02:12.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a little bit less available. 02:13.600 --> 02:14.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So these are just some of the 02:15.133 --> 02:18.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% responses that the people I'm 02:18.133 --> 02:18.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% talking to say are really 02:19.500 --> 02:20.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% working, saving, at this point, 02:21.000 --> 02:22.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% tens of thousands of lives . 02:23.133 --> 02:23.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Amna: There are some pockets of 02:24.333 --> 02:27.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% data that seem to be bucking the 02:27.966 --> 02:28.900 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% trend, though, right? 02:28.900 --> 02:29.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Where are we not seeing progress 02:29.566 --> 02:29.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% and why not? 02:30.533 --> 02:31.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Brian: I talked about this 02:31.500 --> 02:33.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% mystery, and one of the things 02:34.066 --> 02:35.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that we don't understand yet is 02:35.033 --> 02:35.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% why six states, mostly in the 02:36.233 --> 02:36.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% west, are still seeing dramatic 02:36.933 --> 02:39.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% increases. 02:40.333 --> 02:40.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Nevada and Alaska are 02:41.300 --> 02:42.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% particularly problematic. 02:42.133 --> 02:44.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% They're up 25% to 40%. 02:45.166 --> 02:45.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Also, researchers are telling me 02:46.400 --> 02:48.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that in black communities and 02:49.633 --> 02:50.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% native American communities, 02:50.600 --> 02:51.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% still a lot of vulnerability, a 02:51.533 --> 02:52.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% lot of people still dying. 02:53.233 --> 02:54.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So, this recovery really does 02:54.200 --> 02:56.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% appear to be happening. 02:57.500 --> 02:58.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Amna: So you mentioned this is a 02:58.333 --> 02:58.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% significant decline, 02:59.500 --> 03:00.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% unprecedented for what we've 03:00.400 --> 03:01.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% seen here in America. 03:01.333 --> 03:01.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But is it the beginning of a 03:02.233 --> 03:02.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% bigger downward trend? 03:03.700 --> 03:03.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I mean, where do we think the 03:04.666 --> 03:06.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% numbers will go from here? 03:07.633 --> 03:08.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Brian: So what we've seen now is 03:12.200 --> 03:12.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% an eight month long sustained 03:13.166 --> 03:13.300 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% recovery. 03:14.200 --> 03:18.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% That is a good sign. 03:19.066 --> 03:19.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% This does not appear to just be 03:20.100 --> 03:20.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a one month statistical blip. 03:21.666 --> 03:21.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And another thing that really 03:22.666 --> 03:25.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% looks good here is that the rate 03:26.133 --> 03:27.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of decline of drug deaths, 03:28.100 --> 03:29.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that's growing month to month, 03:29.033 --> 03:29.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it seems to be accelerating. 03:29.833 --> 03:30.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% One of the reasons that 03:30.733 --> 03:31.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% researchers are trying to 03:31.700 --> 03:32.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% understand the mysteryryf why 03:32.633 --> 03:34.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% this is happening is so they can 03:35.266 --> 03:35.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% sustain it and maybe build on 03:35.800 --> 03:36.733 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% it. 03:36.733 --> 03:36.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% As you say, 94,000 deaths is 03:37.733 --> 03:38.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% still catastrophically high, 03:38.300 --> 03:39.100 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% right? 03:39.100 --> 03:40.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% This is not good enough. 03:40.033 --> 03:40.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And if we begin to plateau here, 03:40.966 --> 03:41.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% everyone agrees that this is not 03:41.900 --> 03:42.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% going to be the place we want to 03:42.466 --> 03:46.233 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% stay. 03:46.233 --> 03:46.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So that is going to be the big 03:47.333 --> 03:48.300 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% question. 03:48.300 --> 03:48.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% As we transition to the trump 03:49.600 --> 03:50.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% administration, can they find 03:50.500 --> 03:50.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ways to not only keep this 03:51.500 --> 03:51.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% going, but to build on it and to 03:52.533 --> 03:53.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and to keep those deaths 03:54.400 --> 03:54.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% dropping month over month going 03:55.500 --> 03:56.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% on into the future? 03:57.200 --> 03:59.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Amna: While I've got you I want 04:00.066 --> 04:00.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to ask about some other 04:01.300 --> 04:01.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% headlines that have gotten some 04:01.933 --> 04:02.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% attention. 04:02.900 --> 04:03.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% There's been some controversy 04:03.766 --> 04:04.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% around the kind of harm 04:04.700 --> 04:05.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% reduction approach we've seen in 04:05.466 --> 04:09.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% some communities. 04:12.633 --> 04:13.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Oregon, for example, 04:13.600 --> 04:13.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% decriminalizing personal drug 04:14.533 --> 04:14.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% possession in 2020, then 04:15.566 --> 04:16.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% recriminalizing it this year. 04:16.500 --> 04:16.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Rhode Island now, one of the 04:17.466 --> 04:18.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% only places to open a safe 04:18.433 --> 04:19.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% injection site in the country 04:19.000 --> 04:19.933 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% soon. 04:19.933 --> 04:20.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% What do we know in terms of data 04:20.866 --> 04:21.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and your reporting about how 04:21.800 --> 04:22.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% effective those kinds of efforts 04:22.333 --> 04:24.266 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% are? 04:25.000 --> 04:25.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Brian: This is a really 04:26.200 --> 04:27.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% interesting thing about drug 04:27.133 --> 04:27.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% addiction is that sometimes harm 04:28.133 --> 04:29.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% reduction responses that do 04:29.066 --> 04:32.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% things like providing clean 04:33.566 --> 04:34.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% needles to people, in some cases 04:34.533 --> 04:35.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% even giving people safe places 04:36.200 --> 04:37.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to use drugs where they're 04:37.133 --> 04:37.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% monitored by medical personnel. 04:38.400 --> 04:39.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% These are controversial, but 04:40.800 --> 04:40.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% there is a lot of data showing 04:41.533 --> 04:42.333 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% that they work. 04:42.333 --> 04:42.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% They do save lives. 04:43.300 --> 04:46.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Here's the problem. 04:46.300 --> 04:46.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% They also can lead to community 04:47.333 --> 04:47.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% problems. 04:48.466 --> 04:48.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% There are places where people 04:49.466 --> 04:52.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% worry about crime. 04:53.333 --> 04:54.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% They worry about people doing 04:54.300 --> 04:55.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% drugs in their neighborhoods. 04:55.233 --> 04:56.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so one of the tensions that 04:57.133 --> 04:57.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a lot of communities, from 04:58.466 --> 04:58.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Portland, Oregon to Seattle, 04:59.566 --> 04:59.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Washington, right across the 05:00.633 --> 05:01.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% country, what they're wrestling 05:02.600 --> 05:02.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with is trying to find ways to 05:03.700 --> 05:04.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% provide those harm reduction 05:05.300 --> 05:08.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% services, which have a pretty 05:09.766 --> 05:09.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% good track record saving lives, 05:10.766 --> 05:11.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but doing it in a way that also 05:11.700 --> 05:14.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% deals with that crime issue and 05:15.366 --> 05:19.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with that public safety issue. 05:19.333 --> 05:20.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Amna: That's Brian Mann, NPR's 05:21.500 --> 05:21.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% national addiction 05:22.766 --> 05:23.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% correspondent, joining us 05:24.400 --> 05:25.166 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% tonight. 05:25.166 --> 05:25.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Brian, thank you. 05:26.200 --> 05:27.333 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Brian: Thanks.