1 00:00:02,266 --> 00:00:04,566 JOHN YANG: Democratic Party officials will now have to negotiate state election laws. And they're 2 00:00:04,566 --> 00:00:09,500 just six weeks away from the first mail-in ballots being sent out to voters in North Carolina. Rick 3 00:00:11,566 --> 00:00:15,100 Hasen teaches at UCLA law school and is an expert on election law. Rick, how hard or easy 4 00:00:18,233 --> 00:00:23,233 isn't going to be for Democratic Parties in the states across the country to change the balance? 5 00:00:25,333 --> 00:00:27,333 RICK HASEN, UCLA School of Law: Well, they don't need to change anything at this point. 6 00:00:27,333 --> 00:00:31,066 Because remember, Joe Biden was never the nominee officially of the Democratic Party. 7 00:00:31,066 --> 00:00:34,666 He was the presumptive nominee, his name was going to be submitted either after 8 00:00:34,666 --> 00:00:39,500 this virtual roll call that was maybe going to take place in early August or at the convention. 9 00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:44,466 So really, the fact that Joe Biden is dropping out now is not the issue. The issue is one more of 10 00:00:46,733 --> 00:00:49,800 timing in terms of when the information from the party is going to be transmitted to the various 11 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:56,833 state officials. I think that it should go in almost every place very smoothly. And there should 12 00:00:59,133 --> 00:01:02,733 not be an issue based on the fact that it's going to be a different nominee other than Joe Biden. 13 00:01:04,933 --> 00:01:07,066 JOHN YANG: Now, before the President dropped out this morning, House Speaker Mike Johnson 14 00:01:07,066 --> 00:01:11,900 was out saying that he was going to expect legal challenges from Republican parties 15 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:16,900 across the country to wall this. How -- is there grounds -- are their grounds for 16 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,600 a legal challenge? And could that how long could that fight go on? 17 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,800 RICK HASEN: Well, I don't think that the legal challenges would be likely to be successful. I 18 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,800 think they'd be very unlikely to be successful. Ohio, for example, had an early ballot deadline. 19 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:37,066 They changed the deadline to later. But they the later -- the change doesn't go into effect 20 00:01:39,133 --> 00:01:42,233 technically until September 1st, but state officials have said, we're going to stick 21 00:01:44,566 --> 00:01:46,866 with the new deadline. And so Democrats should be fine to put an anomaly after that convention. 22 00:01:46,866 --> 00:01:51,033 So someone could try to challenge that. The courts have been very protective of the rights 23 00:01:51,033 --> 00:01:55,700 of major party candidates to be on the ballot. There are a few other states where technical 24 00:01:55,700 --> 00:02:00,433 issues could be raised like Washington State, I think these things are very unlikely to succeed. 25 00:02:00,433 --> 00:02:04,333 And it's just kind of more smoke that's being thrown up to try to, you know, it was tried to 26 00:02:04,333 --> 00:02:08,800 keep Biden in the race and now to try to claim that Democrats are doing something illegitimate. 27 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,600 JOHN YANG: In your experience and your knowledge of the history of all this. Has 28 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,600 there ever been a presidential candidate dropping out this late in the campaign? 29 00:02:18,333 --> 00:02:20,666 RICK HASEN: This is very late. And remember the Democrats have a very 30 00:02:20,666 --> 00:02:23,400 late convention so everything is later I think maybe that was 31 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,033 because of the Olympics were taking place between the two conventions. 32 00:02:27,033 --> 00:02:31,333 It's very late. But you know, lots of other countries run entire elections in the period 33 00:02:31,333 --> 00:02:36,133 that we would have between Labor Day and our election day. So, you know, certainly, 34 00:02:36,133 --> 00:02:39,733 there's enough time to ramp up campaigns. And I think that's what we're going to see. 35 00:02:39,733 --> 00:02:42,166 JOHN YANG: Yeah, we've been reminded of those short campaigns recently, 36 00:02:42,166 --> 00:02:46,833 in Britain and in France. What happens to the money that the Biden Harris campaign has raised? 37 00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:51,333 RICK HASEN: It's going to depend on if Harris is the nominee or not. Harris 38 00:02:51,333 --> 00:02:56,300 is not the nominee then Biden would have to either give the money away to the Democratic 39 00:02:56,300 --> 00:03:01,266 Party or two -- he could set up a Super PAC potentially, he could have his own PAC 40 00:03:03,333 --> 00:03:06,433 that could support a candidate, those things would be not as good as if Harris took over. 41 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,500 Most election lawyers think that of Harris takes over, she can just keep using the funds. There are 42 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:17,300 some people who claim that she wouldn't be able to do that, at least not yet. And so it's possible 43 00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:21,733 there will be a challenge. But usually campaign finance challenges come years later, we're still 44 00:03:21,733 --> 00:03:26,133 getting some resolution of things that happened in 2016, when it comes to campaign finance. So 45 00:03:26,133 --> 00:03:29,733 I think if it's Harris, she's very likely to be able to take over the use of that money. 46 00:03:29,733 --> 00:03:34,233 JOHN YANG: Now the process of choosing the next nominee, some Republicans are already criticizing 47 00:03:34,233 --> 00:03:39,233 it, saying that it's anointing Vice President Harris that it's anti small D democratic, 48 00:03:41,233 --> 00:03:45,266 taking the decision away from the voters. What do you make of that? 49 00:03:45,266 --> 00:03:50,266 RICK HASEN: Well, remember that the years ago, the parties didn't have a such a democratic process, 50 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:56,366 really, the democracy comes mostly when it's the choice between the Democrat 51 00:03:56,366 --> 00:04:01,333 and the Republican. It's since the late 1960s. The process has been democratized. 52 00:04:03,366 --> 00:04:06,833 But here you don't have the party leaders overcoming the will of someone who still 53 00:04:09,133 --> 00:04:11,933 wants to run for office, the person who was in the lead has said I'm stepping back. And so you 54 00:04:11,933 --> 00:04:16,633 need to have some process. And if anything, if it is Harris, remember, she was on the ticket 55 00:04:16,633 --> 00:04:21,633 with Biden, so she was getting those votes from the voters with Biden all along the way. 56 00:04:23,366 --> 00:04:25,300 JOHN YANG: Are there any say that changing the balance or the ballots 57 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:28,300 won't have to be changed that much, is not much of a challenge or a problem? 58 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:33,300 Are there other legal hurdles you can foresee in all of this? 59 00:04:35,466 --> 00:04:37,566 RICK HASEN: Well, so what's going to have to happen is they're going to have to have their 60 00:04:37,566 --> 00:04:41,800 ticket, right. So I think you might still see the roll call, virtual roll call take 61 00:04:43,900 --> 00:04:48,133 place so that the Democrats lock this up by early August. That way any of those long shot 62 00:04:50,233 --> 00:04:53,133 legal challenges would be would be gone. And I think it would be smooth sailing from the point 63 00:04:53,133 --> 00:04:57,200 of view of election law. And that will really be about the politics of the whole situation. 64 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,933 JOHN YANG: Election law expert Rick Hasen of UCLA law school, thank you very much. 65 00:05:01,933 --> 00:05:06,933 RICK HASEN: Thank you.