1 00:00:02,366 --> 00:00:05,000 AMNA NAWAZ: For the second time in eight years, a woman ran for president and lost to the same man. 2 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:11,066 Despite strong support among women of color, Vice President Kamala Harris lost ground with 3 00:00:11,066 --> 00:00:16,066 nearly every other demographic group compared to Joe Biden in 2020. A number of factors 4 00:00:18,333 --> 00:00:21,500 separate Hillary Clinton's run from Harris', and a number of factors went into Donald Trump's win. 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,033 But, once again, the question is being asked, is America ready for a woman in the White House? 6 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:31,133 Errin Haines editor-at-large for The 19th News, and Kelly Dittmar 7 00:00:31,133 --> 00:00:35,166 is with the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University. 8 00:00:35,166 --> 00:00:37,033 Welcome to you both. 9 00:00:37,033 --> 00:00:39,366 And, Errin, I will start with you. There's a number of factors at play, 10 00:00:39,366 --> 00:00:44,233 we know, the economy, a truncated campaign, frustration with the incumbent. But what do 11 00:00:46,333 --> 00:00:49,266 you take away from what we saw with voters in terms of how much gender played a role, 12 00:00:50,833 --> 00:00:53,033 that there was a woman at the top of the Democratic ticket? 13 00:00:53,033 --> 00:00:56,666 ERRIN HAINES, Editor at Large, The 19th News: Well, I wrote about how this election, how 14 00:00:56,666 --> 00:01:01,633 elections are not just about either the candidate, but really about who we are as a country. 15 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:07,433 And, again, what do we know about who we are as a country this year? That America is still not yet 16 00:01:09,700 --> 00:01:13,866 ready to elect a woman to lead our country. The issue of gender, not necessarily something that 17 00:01:16,066 --> 00:01:20,500 Vice President Kamala Harris was emphasizing, but it was absolutely looming over this race. 18 00:01:22,666 --> 00:01:26,233 And when you think about American voters really prioritizing the economy, immigration, 19 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:33,600 maybe not seeing a woman as the person that embodied the characteristics of strength or 20 00:01:35,733 --> 00:01:39,466 power around those issues, I think that this was absolutely an election that was gendered. 21 00:01:39,466 --> 00:01:44,466 We definitely saw former President Trump coming back into the White House on a 22 00:01:46,333 --> 00:01:50,166 message of his particular brand of masculinity. I think that we cannot 23 00:01:50,166 --> 00:01:54,500 have a conversation about this election without having a conversation about the 24 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:59,466 role -- the ongoing role of gender in our politics and continuing to ask the question, 25 00:02:01,666 --> 00:02:04,900 what is it going to take for a woman -- for this country to ever elect a woman president? 26 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,600 AMNA NAWAZ: Kelly, pick up on that point that Errin made about Trump's campaign, 27 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,133 which was clearly geared to appeal towards men. And he 28 00:02:12,133 --> 00:02:16,533 did very well with them. He won some 54 percent of the male vote. 29 00:02:16,533 --> 00:02:21,266 But it was one group in particular, white women, which is the single largest voting bloc 30 00:02:21,266 --> 00:02:25,400 at some 40 percent of the electorate, who did help propel him to victory, 31 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,400 some 53 percent of white women voting for him. What did you see in that? What fueled that vote? 32 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:34,566 KELLY DITTMAR, Center for American Women and Politics, Rutgers University: We need to kind 33 00:02:34,566 --> 00:02:36,533 of shift away from the question of, is America ready for a woman? I mean, 34 00:02:36,533 --> 00:02:40,200 the majority of women voted -- or majority of voters voted for a woman in 2016. 35 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:45,500 But to really understand both white women's voting behavior and voting behavior across 36 00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:50,500 the board is to look at, what are the racism and sexism in our electorate that is allowing us to 37 00:02:54,633 --> 00:02:59,600 continually vote for somebody who's proven that he is misogynist in both his own personal behavior, 38 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:06,400 but also in his policy priorities, has tapped into racial resentment within our communities, 39 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,500 and that these things aren't disqualifying? 40 00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:15,200 And for white women, in particular, we have seen time and again, it's not disqualifying enough in 41 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:20,200 part because they have a racial privilege that is being protected by this brand of politics. 42 00:03:22,366 --> 00:03:26,733 And we're going to have to grapple with that, I think, continually to get to the point not 43 00:03:28,933 --> 00:03:31,200 only where we can elect a woman, but where we can elect candidates who are trying to move 44 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,900 us forward when it comes to racial and ethnic inclusion, gender progress and gender equity. 45 00:03:38,533 --> 00:03:40,700 AMNA NAWAZ: And, Errin, I know you have reported on this and written 46 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:45,133 on this extensively. This is the second time there's been a woman at the top of the ticket, 47 00:03:45,133 --> 00:03:48,833 but the only first time that there's been a Black woman at the top of the ticket. 48 00:03:48,833 --> 00:03:52,666 What role did you see that both racism and sexism that we know 49 00:03:52,666 --> 00:03:56,733 are still very real animating forces in America played in this election? 50 00:03:56,733 --> 00:03:58,900 ERRIN HAINES: I think they definitely played a role. 51 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:02,466 But I do want to talk about, I mean, the 92 percent of Black women that showed up to 52 00:04:02,466 --> 00:04:07,233 vote for Vice President Kamala Harris, how excited and energized they were about her 53 00:04:07,233 --> 00:04:12,033 unprecedented campaign, how hard that they worked to try to get her elected. I mean, 54 00:04:12,033 --> 00:04:16,433 Black women have long been regarded as the backbone of the Democratic Party. 55 00:04:16,433 --> 00:04:21,433 And so to see somebody who shared their lived experience at the top of the ticket felt for 56 00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:25,800 a lot of the Black women that I talked to, a lot of the voters, a lot of the organizers, 57 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,266 a lot of the longtime kind of political folks that have been around in the Democratic Party, 58 00:04:30,266 --> 00:04:34,866 to see that, for them really represented kind of a return on their investment, I mean, 59 00:04:34,866 --> 00:04:39,866 their investment being their voting loyalty over so many years to the Democratic Party. 60 00:04:41,966 --> 00:04:45,433 And so circling back with a lot of those same Black women, where they are right now is that 61 00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:50,733 they are feeling abandoned by a party that they have supported so heavily and 62 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:56,733 so loyally for so long, and really wondering what it is about Black women that other groups 63 00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:04,100 somehow are not necessarily able to stand with, and white women, in particular. 64 00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:09,100 Because I think that we saw, when Vice President Harris became the candidate 65 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,233 for the Democratic presidential nomination, there were some white women who were publicly 66 00:05:15,233 --> 00:05:20,233 reckoning with 2016. White women did not in the majority support Hillary Clinton then, 67 00:05:22,633 --> 00:05:25,533 somebody who shared their lived experience, and wondering if they were going to make a different 68 00:05:25,533 --> 00:05:30,533 choice this time around and stand with Black women and other Democrats in voting for Kamala Harris. 69 00:05:32,666 --> 00:05:36,733 But that did not end up being the case. And you have to ask, how much of that -- I mean, 70 00:05:36,733 --> 00:05:41,733 we know the history of white women and what they have chosen to do with 71 00:05:43,466 --> 00:05:46,866 suffrage since they got it, they first got it in 1920, and, frankly, 72 00:05:46,866 --> 00:05:51,200 at the expense of so many Black women suffragists who also stood shoulder to shoulder with them, 73 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:56,133 but were then thrown under the bus when the 19th Amendment was passed more than a century ago. 74 00:05:58,033 --> 00:06:01,666 I think that that history absolutely looms over this election for so many 75 00:06:03,766 --> 00:06:07,333 Black women. When it came down to white women choosing between their race and their gender, 76 00:06:08,533 --> 00:06:11,300 I think we see how that played out. 77 00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:15,900 AMNA NAWAZ: Kelly, it is worth taking a look at the last 50 years in the U.S. 78 00:06:15,900 --> 00:06:20,900 Yes, gender equity has made a lot of progress, right? But facts are still facts. Women are 79 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,033 still paid some 84 cents on the dollar compared to men. Women make up less than 12 percent of 80 00:06:26,033 --> 00:06:31,033 C-suite roles. Women are half the U.S. population. They only make up less than a third of Congress. 81 00:06:32,500 --> 00:06:36,233 Is it reluctance that you see or an inability, largely, 82 00:06:36,233 --> 00:06:39,833 among the general population to see women as leaders? 83 00:06:39,833 --> 00:06:41,966 KELLY DITTMAR: Yes, I think, as you know, 84 00:06:41,966 --> 00:06:46,233 we have made progress. I think it's a little bit of both, but it's also some backlash. 85 00:06:46,233 --> 00:06:51,233 Susan Faludi wrote a book called "Backlash" that we can tap into again and look at in this election 86 00:06:53,700 --> 00:06:58,700 and in how Donald Trump waged his campaign, which was in fact taking that progress that 87 00:07:01,100 --> 00:07:04,100 you have pointed to and reminding a subset of voters that this is somehow threatening, right? 88 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,733 And that's true along lines of race as well. Since the day Donald Trump began campaigning, 89 00:07:12,766 --> 00:07:16,266 he tapped into white male grievance politics, saying, for example society is becoming too 90 00:07:18,166 --> 00:07:22,066 soft and feminine. That's something his supporters are more likely to believe, 91 00:07:22,066 --> 00:07:27,066 based on Public Religion Research Institute data, or men are being punished just for being men, 92 00:07:28,733 --> 00:07:32,033 gender is a binary, and we shouldn't move beyond that. 93 00:07:32,033 --> 00:07:36,633 So we saw that in the anti-trans rhetoric throughout the campaign for Donald Trump 94 00:07:36,633 --> 00:07:41,633 and other Republicans down the ballot. And so, while we see these gains, we have to 95 00:07:41,633 --> 00:07:46,633 remember that progress is not inevitable. It takes the effort and momentum from everybody, 96 00:07:48,566 --> 00:07:51,633 including groups like white women, to push back against those who are saying 97 00:07:51,633 --> 00:07:56,633 that this progress is somehow bad and threatening to their own communities. 98 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:02,233 AMNA NAWAZ: That is Kelly Dittmar of Rutgers University, Errin Haines from The 19th News. 99 00:08:02,233 --> 00:08:04,400 Thank you to you both. Good to speak with you. 100 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:05,333 KELLY DITTMAR: Thank you.