WEBVTT 00:02.366 --> 00:05.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: For the second time in eight years, a woman ran for president and lost to the same man. 00:07.133 --> 00:11.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Despite strong support among women of color, Vice President Kamala Harris lost ground with 00:11.066 --> 00:16.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% nearly every other demographic group compared to Joe Biden in 2020. A number of factors 00:18.333 --> 00:21.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% separate Hillary Clinton's run from Harris', and a number of factors went into Donald Trump's win. 00:23.600 --> 00:27.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, once again, the question is being asked, is America ready for a woman in the White House? 00:28.500 --> 00:31.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Errin Haines editor-at-large for The 19th News, and Kelly Dittmar 00:31.133 --> 00:35.166 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% is with the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University. 00:35.166 --> 00:37.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Welcome to you both. 00:37.033 --> 00:39.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And, Errin, I will start with you. There's a number of factors at play, 00:39.366 --> 00:44.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% we know, the economy, a truncated campaign, frustration with the incumbent. But what do 00:46.333 --> 00:49.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you take away from what we saw with voters in terms of how much gender played a role, 00:50.833 --> 00:53.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that there was a woman at the top of the Democratic ticket? 00:53.033 --> 00:56.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ERRIN HAINES, Editor at Large, The 19th News: Well, I wrote about how this election, how 00:56.666 --> 01:01.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% elections are not just about either the candidate, but really about who we are as a country. 01:03.900 --> 01:07.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And, again, what do we know about who we are as a country this year? That America is still not yet 01:09.700 --> 01:13.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% ready to elect a woman to lead our country. The issue of gender, not necessarily something that 01:16.066 --> 01:20.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Vice President Kamala Harris was emphasizing, but it was absolutely looming over this race. 01:22.666 --> 01:26.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And when you think about American voters really prioritizing the economy, immigration, 01:28.600 --> 01:33.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% maybe not seeing a woman as the person that embodied the characteristics of strength or 01:35.733 --> 01:39.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% power around those issues, I think that this was absolutely an election that was gendered. 01:39.466 --> 01:44.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% We definitely saw former President Trump coming back into the White House on a 01:46.333 --> 01:50.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% message of his particular brand of masculinity. I think that we cannot 01:50.166 --> 01:54.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have a conversation about this election without having a conversation about the 01:54.500 --> 01:59.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% role -- the ongoing role of gender in our politics and continuing to ask the question, 02:01.666 --> 02:04.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what is it going to take for a woman -- for this country to ever elect a woman president? 02:06.800 --> 02:08.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Kelly, pick up on that point that Errin made about Trump's campaign, 02:08.600 --> 02:12.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% which was clearly geared to appeal towards men. And he 02:12.133 --> 02:16.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% did very well with them. He won some 54 percent of the male vote. 02:16.533 --> 02:21.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But it was one group in particular, white women, which is the single largest voting bloc 02:21.266 --> 02:25.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at some 40 percent of the electorate, who did help propel him to victory, 02:25.400 --> 02:30.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% some 53 percent of white women voting for him. What did you see in that? What fueled that vote? 02:32.700 --> 02:34.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% KELLY DITTMAR, Center for American Women and Politics, Rutgers University: We need to kind 02:34.566 --> 02:36.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% of shift away from the question of, is America ready for a woman? I mean, 02:36.533 --> 02:40.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the majority of women voted -- or majority of voters voted for a woman in 2016. 02:42.300 --> 02:45.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But to really understand both white women's voting behavior and voting behavior across 02:45.500 --> 02:50.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% the board is to look at, what are the racism and sexism in our electorate that is allowing us to 02:54.633 --> 02:59.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% continually vote for somebody who's proven that he is misogynist in both his own personal behavior, 03:01.900 --> 03:06.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% but also in his policy priorities, has tapped into racial resentment within our communities, 03:07.800 --> 03:10.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that these things aren't disqualifying? 03:10.500 --> 03:15.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And for white women, in particular, we have seen time and again, it's not disqualifying enough in 03:15.200 --> 03:20.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% part because they have a racial privilege that is being protected by this brand of politics. 03:22.366 --> 03:26.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And we're going to have to grapple with that, I think, continually to get to the point not 03:28.933 --> 03:31.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% only where we can elect a woman, but where we can elect candidates who are trying to move 03:31.200 --> 03:35.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% us forward when it comes to racial and ethnic inclusion, gender progress and gender equity. 03:38.533 --> 03:40.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: And, Errin, I know you have reported on this and written 03:40.700 --> 03:45.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% on this extensively. This is the second time there's been a woman at the top of the ticket, 03:45.133 --> 03:48.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but the only first time that there's been a Black woman at the top of the ticket. 03:48.833 --> 03:52.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% What role did you see that both racism and sexism that we know 03:52.666 --> 03:56.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% are still very real animating forces in America played in this election? 03:56.733 --> 03:58.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ERRIN HAINES: I think they definitely played a role. 03:58.900 --> 04:02.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I do want to talk about, I mean, the 92 percent of Black women that showed up to 04:02.466 --> 04:07.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% vote for Vice President Kamala Harris, how excited and energized they were about her 04:07.233 --> 04:12.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% unprecedented campaign, how hard that they worked to try to get her elected. I mean, 04:12.033 --> 04:16.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Black women have long been regarded as the backbone of the Democratic Party. 04:16.433 --> 04:21.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so to see somebody who shared their lived experience at the top of the ticket felt for 04:23.500 --> 04:25.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a lot of the Black women that I talked to, a lot of the voters, a lot of the organizers, 04:25.800 --> 04:30.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a lot of the longtime kind of political folks that have been around in the Democratic Party, 04:30.266 --> 04:34.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to see that, for them really represented kind of a return on their investment, I mean, 04:34.866 --> 04:39.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% their investment being their voting loyalty over so many years to the Democratic Party. 04:41.966 --> 04:45.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so circling back with a lot of those same Black women, where they are right now is that 04:47.300 --> 04:50.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they are feeling abandoned by a party that they have supported so heavily and 04:52.900 --> 04:56.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% so loyally for so long, and really wondering what it is about Black women that other groups 04:59.900 --> 05:04.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% somehow are not necessarily able to stand with, and white women, in particular. 05:04.100 --> 05:09.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Because I think that we saw, when Vice President Harris became the candidate 05:11.200 --> 05:15.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for the Democratic presidential nomination, there were some white women who were publicly 05:15.233 --> 05:20.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% reckoning with 2016. White women did not in the majority support Hillary Clinton then, 05:22.633 --> 05:25.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% somebody who shared their lived experience, and wondering if they were going to make a different 05:25.533 --> 05:30.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% choice this time around and stand with Black women and other Democrats in voting for Kamala Harris. 05:32.666 --> 05:36.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But that did not end up being the case. And you have to ask, how much of that -- I mean, 05:36.733 --> 05:41.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% we know the history of white women and what they have chosen to do with 05:43.466 --> 05:46.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% suffrage since they got it, they first got it in 1920, and, frankly, 05:46.866 --> 05:51.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at the expense of so many Black women suffragists who also stood shoulder to shoulder with them, 05:51.200 --> 05:56.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but were then thrown under the bus when the 19th Amendment was passed more than a century ago. 05:58.033 --> 06:01.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think that that history absolutely looms over this election for so many 06:03.766 --> 06:07.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Black women. When it came down to white women choosing between their race and their gender, 06:08.533 --> 06:11.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think we see how that played out. 06:11.300 --> 06:15.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Kelly, it is worth taking a look at the last 50 years in the U.S. 06:15.900 --> 06:20.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Yes, gender equity has made a lot of progress, right? But facts are still facts. Women are 06:23.000 --> 06:26.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% still paid some 84 cents on the dollar compared to men. Women make up less than 12 percent of 06:26.033 --> 06:31.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% C-suite roles. Women are half the U.S. population. They only make up less than a third of Congress. 06:32.500 --> 06:36.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Is it reluctance that you see or an inability, largely, 06:36.233 --> 06:39.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% among the general population to see women as leaders? 06:39.833 --> 06:41.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% KELLY DITTMAR: Yes, I think, as you know, 06:41.966 --> 06:46.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we have made progress. I think it's a little bit of both, but it's also some backlash. 06:46.233 --> 06:51.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Susan Faludi wrote a book called "Backlash" that we can tap into again and look at in this election 06:53.700 --> 06:58.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and in how Donald Trump waged his campaign, which was in fact taking that progress that 07:01.100 --> 07:04.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you have pointed to and reminding a subset of voters that this is somehow threatening, right? 07:06.200 --> 07:10.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that's true along lines of race as well. Since the day Donald Trump began campaigning, 07:12.766 --> 07:16.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he tapped into white male grievance politics, saying, for example society is becoming too 07:18.166 --> 07:22.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% soft and feminine. That's something his supporters are more likely to believe, 07:22.066 --> 07:27.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% based on Public Religion Research Institute data, or men are being punished just for being men, 07:28.733 --> 07:32.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% gender is a binary, and we shouldn't move beyond that. 07:32.033 --> 07:36.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So we saw that in the anti-trans rhetoric throughout the campaign for Donald Trump 07:36.633 --> 07:41.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and other Republicans down the ballot. And so, while we see these gains, we have to 07:41.633 --> 07:46.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% remember that progress is not inevitable. It takes the effort and momentum from everybody, 07:48.566 --> 07:51.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% including groups like white women, to push back against those who are saying 07:51.633 --> 07:56.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% that this progress is somehow bad and threatening to their own communities. 07:58.700 --> 08:02.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: That is Kelly Dittmar of Rutgers University, Errin Haines from The 19th News. 08:02.233 --> 08:04.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Thank you to you both. Good to speak with you. 08:04.400 --> 08:05.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% KELLY DITTMAR: Thank you.