WEBVTT 00:02.233 --> 00:05.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump's executive order barring transgender people from serving openly 00:05.066 --> 00:10.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% in the military is now being weighed in federal court. The judge in the case appeared to express 00:12.100 --> 00:15.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% doubt that the ban could be justified as necessary to improve military readiness. 00:15.133 --> 00:17.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Here's Lisa Desjardins. 00:17.433 --> 00:21.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% LISA DESJARDINS: Among the executive orders that Trump signed last month was one stating 00:23.166 --> 00:26.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that transgender Americans cannot satisfy the rigorous standards necessary for military 00:28.733 --> 00:32.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% service and that the Pentagon must move to change the policy allowing them to serve. 00:34.833 --> 00:37.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% One of those who could be affected by that joins us now. Commander Emily Shilling is 00:37.433 --> 00:42.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a decorated Navy pilot with over 60 combat missions and high-risk 00:42.033 --> 00:46.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% work as a test pilot. She's also transgender and the lead plaintiff 00:46.366 --> 00:50.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in one of the legal challenges against the Trump executive order. 00:50.366 --> 00:52.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Commander, thank you for joining us. 00:52.466 --> 00:57.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Secretary Hegseth still has about a week or so to meet the deadline for this new 00:59.533 --> 01:02.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% policy and exactly define what it will be. But as we wait for that, have you seen any 01:04.633 --> 01:07.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% effect from this executive order, either yourself personally or in the military? 01:07.066 --> 01:10.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% CMDR. EMILY SHILLING, U.S. Navy: Yes, Lisa, first, thank you for having us on tonight. These views 01:10.433 --> 01:15.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S. Navy or the Department of Defense. 01:17.700 --> 01:21.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So far, we have thousands of transgender troops currently serving in our armed forces today, 01:23.133 --> 01:26.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and they are deployed across the world, embedded in units today. And these executive orders and 01:28.500 --> 01:33.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% the discussion around transgender service has an immediate effect on them, from overzealous 01:35.433 --> 01:38.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% commanders who are taking executive orders as action, to just a detriment to the morale of these 01:41.866 --> 01:46.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% individuals and their ability to focus on the mission that they have signed up to volunteer for. 01:48.600 --> 01:50.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% LISA DESJARDINS: You are the lead plaintiff in this lawsuit. What 01:50.000 --> 01:52.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% are you asking for? What would you like to happen? 01:52.033 --> 01:55.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CMDR. EMILY SHILLING: You know, I just want to keep serving. I have served for nearly 01:55.233 --> 02:00.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% 20 years. I'm a combat aviator, test pilot, and I have served with honor and distinction. 02:02.300 --> 02:06.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And all I'm asking is for myself and the thousands of other transgender troops just 02:08.800 --> 02:11.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% like me to be allowed to continue to do what we want to do, which is serve the American public. 02:13.466 --> 02:16.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: President Trump has said that this is about the culture 02:16.066 --> 02:20.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% of the military and readiness. Here's what he told Republicans last month. 02:20.433 --> 02:21.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Next, to ensure 02:21.966 --> 02:23.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that we have the most lethal fighting force in the world, 02:23.966 --> 02:28.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% we will get transgender ideology the hell out of our military. It's going to be gone. 02:30.333 --> 02:32.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Commander, how do you respond to that? 02:32.533 --> 02:35.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CMDR. EMILY SHILLING: You know, the first thing that you learn as an officer and a leader is, 02:35.400 --> 02:37.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the first rule of leadership is to take care of 02:37.333 --> 02:41.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% your people. That means take care of all of your people. 02:41.000 --> 02:46.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And when you take care of your people, you have an effective, combat-ready force. We 02:48.066 --> 02:51.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% don't necessarily get to choose who's going to volunteer to serve our nation. We are a 02:53.800 --> 02:57.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% melting pot in America, and our armed forces represent that great diversity of our country. 02:59.400 --> 03:03.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Now, those who support the ban have said that -- they point to 03:03.066 --> 03:07.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% some physical conditions that the military can use to exclude people from service, 03:07.100 --> 03:10.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% like maybe severe asthma. That's something you hear a lot. 03:12.333 --> 03:15.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Do you think that that's at all a legitimate argument here? And what is your response? 03:15.866 --> 03:17.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% CMDR. EMILY SHILLING: Yes, Lisa, sure, 03:17.933 --> 03:21.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% there are other medical conditions in health care that preclude people from service. 03:21.733 --> 03:26.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But 73 percent of us, 73 percent of transgender individuals are senior enlisted in the military. 03:29.133 --> 03:34.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% That means that they have been in for over 12 years. When somebody injures their knee or injures 03:36.066 --> 03:38.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% their back, we send them for health care and they're down for a little bit of time and we get 03:38.933 --> 03:43.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% them the health care they need, and then we return them to combat. We return them to the force. 03:43.800 --> 03:48.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% It's the same case in this instance. People just need health care, 03:48.100 --> 03:52.166 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and it's our duty to give them that and return them to the fight. 03:52.166 --> 03:54.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% LISA DESJARDINS: I want to talk about a bigger picture issue here, 03:54.266 --> 03:58.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which is DEI as well, which sort of overlaps with some of these executive orders. 03:58.966 --> 04:03.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And conservatives have said, when there's too much focus on identities, that it leads to a less 04:06.200 --> 04:09.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% unified military force. How do you see the role of DEI, which now President Trump has said cannot 04:12.533 --> 04:17.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% be enforced in military and other agencies? But how do you see that role? Did the military ever 04:17.100 --> 04:22.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% go too far with that with all the trainings, or was it useful? How do you see that debate? 04:22.966 --> 04:24.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CMDR. EMILY SHILLING: So, first, 04:24.866 --> 04:27.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% let's say what DEI stands for. That's diversity, equity and inclusion. 04:27.533 --> 04:32.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And when you actually say the words you realize what we're trying to do. We're trying to create 04:34.666 --> 04:37.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% an environment where our service members feel like they belong, that they're with their battle 04:39.800 --> 04:42.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% buddies, that they're with somebody they can trust and count on when they're in the foxhole. 04:44.200 --> 04:46.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% When you create an inclusive environment for others, 04:46.333 --> 04:51.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they bring their whole self. If they have to leave some portion of them at home, 04:51.300 --> 04:56.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you're only getting 80 percent of the individual. When they're allowed to bring all of themselves, 04:56.066 --> 04:59.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% they end up being better service members, and they end up being better leaders. 05:01.833 --> 05:05.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% For myself, when I was able to start showing up to work as my full self, across the board, 05:07.300 --> 05:12.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I got better reviews, I excelled as a leader, and, actually, I ended up promoting to commander 05:13.900 --> 05:18.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% with merit reorder to number one as a transgender woman in the U.S. Navy. 05:20.166 --> 05:23.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: You are a decorated service member. You operate at a very high level, 05:23.200 --> 05:28.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% but what can you tell us about those thousands of other transgender members of the service? 05:30.100 --> 05:33.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I could see conservatives saying, oh, Commander Shilling is an exception. 05:33.266 --> 05:35.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% CMDR. EMILY SHILLING: Yes, so transgender individuals are 05:35.166 --> 05:38.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% no different than any other American. We're going to have those individuals 05:38.433 --> 05:43.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% who excel. We have those that are mediocre. We are no different. 05:43.033 --> 05:48.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But across the board, the thing that stands out is how resilient these service members 05:50.133 --> 05:53.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are. Think about how hard it is to come into a service or to come out as transgender in the 05:55.666 --> 06:00.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% current environment. Aren't those the type of people that you want to go into combat for you, 06:02.800 --> 06:06.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that amount of courage and that amount of bravery to just be who they are and to show up fully? 06:08.966 --> 06:12.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: In our last half-minute or so, you are a military leader. You're a combat 06:12.533 --> 06:17.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% veteran. What do you think is at stake for the military right now in the directions it chooses? 06:18.766 --> 06:21.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% CMDR. EMILY SHILLING: I think it's reputation. 06:21.666 --> 06:26.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We have allowed individuals to serve from all different creeds, all different backgrounds. And 06:28.833 --> 06:32.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% every single time that we have tried to exclude a group of individuals, whether it was by race, 06:34.600 --> 06:38.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% religion, gender, we have always been proven wrong in the end. The same arguments are made time and 06:40.366 --> 06:45.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% time again. And we're going to have to learn that those same arguments are false once again. 06:46.900 --> 06:48.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Commander Emily Shilling, thank you for joining us. 06:48.066 --> 06:49.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% CMDR. EMILY SHILLING: Thank you, Lisa.