WEBVTT 00:02.266 --> 00:04.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% GEOFF BENNETT: Shifting our focus now to Oregon, Judy Woodruff recently traveled across that state 00:04.633 --> 00:09.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to learn more about the perceived divide between some rural and urban areas in this country. 00:11.100 --> 00:14.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It's her latest installment of America at a Crossroads. 00:14.833 --> 00:18.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: For Ian Williams, it isn't just about the caffeine buzz 00:18.666 --> 00:23.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% here at Deadstock Coffee located in the heart of Old Town Portland. 00:25.133 --> 00:26.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% IAN WILLIAMS, Owner and Founder, Deadstock Coffee: The reason why 00:26.666 --> 00:28.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this shop exists is for the community to come together. 00:28.800 --> 00:32.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: The sneaker-theme shop reflects 36-year-old Williams' love for basketball, 00:33.366 --> 00:35.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% shoes, and the people who gather here. 00:35.866 --> 00:40.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% IAN WILLIAMS: We are a city that accepts so many things, whether it be culturally or 00:43.266 --> 00:46.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% sexual orientation, whatever it might be. Like, we accept so many things, and it's a beautiful thing. 00:48.366 --> 00:50.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Williams, sometimes known as the mayor of Portland, 00:50.633 --> 00:55.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% is deeply involved in this community and worried about its future. 00:55.066 --> 01:00.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% IAN WILLIAMS: Portland, the government, the city has allowed people to make the rules. So, 01:02.166 --> 01:06.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% then, when we talk about things being dirty, and people -- like, mental health issues and 01:06.000 --> 01:11.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% things like that, we're not regulating. We're not on top of whatever's going on. 01:13.133 --> 01:16.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Rachel Coady, a native Portlander who moved back here in 2018, acknowledges its 01:18.833 --> 01:22.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% problems. A consultant by day, she's also worked to help build stronger communities in the city. 01:24.366 --> 01:27.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% RACHEL COADY, Consultant: Portland has enough problems to take care of on its own. I mean, 01:27.000 --> 01:29.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% obviously, the houselessness for our citizens, 01:29.466 --> 01:33.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% support in getting people who are addicted or having troubles with addiction, 01:33.700 --> 01:37.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the services they need, at least off of the streets, feels really evident. 01:37.666 --> 01:40.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's a safety issue now for people. We have a huge 01:40.566 --> 01:44.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% violence issue in Portland that's bigger than it's been in decades. 01:44.233 --> 01:49.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Portland is Oregon's most populous city and is one of the economic hubs of the state. 01:51.400 --> 01:55.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Just 80 miles from the Pacific Ocean, it sits at the northern tip of the Willamette Valley, 01:58.066 --> 02:02.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% where the vast majority of Oregon's people live, many in urban areas like Salem and Eugene. 02:04.100 --> 02:07.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They have helped turn the state strongly Democratic. 02:07.233 --> 02:09.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 02:09.033 --> 02:11.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% RONALD REAGAN, Former President of the United States: God bless you. 02:11.066 --> 02:14.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: A Republican presidential candidate hasn't won here in 40 years. 02:16.433 --> 02:19.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But east of the nearby Cascade mountain Range that divides the state, many have different 02:21.966 --> 02:25.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% worries and far more conservative views. On the High Desert, it's a constant struggle to keep the 02:28.066 --> 02:33.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% cattle healthy, says 58-year-old Lonny Carter, and safe from Mother Nature and from the government. 02:35.333 --> 02:38.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% LONNY CARTER, Rancher: I have had wolves right there in that field by my house. 02:38.700 --> 02:41.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Carter runs this 19,000-acre ranch with 02:41.866 --> 02:45.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a small team of family members and ranch hands. 02:45.233 --> 02:47.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% LONNY CARTER: She wouldn't have made it out there by herself. 02:47.400 --> 02:51.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Chief among their concerns are the uncertainties. 02:51.066 --> 02:54.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LONNY CARTER: Every ranch out here has water rights and the state of Oregon 02:54.966 --> 02:59.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% controls that. We don't own the water. If the primary reservoir is low on water, 03:01.933 --> 03:05.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they say they can come take our water without even nothing, just they will take it. 03:06.833 --> 03:08.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And they will drain my reservoir and they don't care about my fish. 03:08.800 --> 03:12.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They don't care about fire protection. They don't care about my irrigation. 03:12.433 --> 03:16.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: This ranch not only sits literally at the geographic center of 03:16.533 --> 03:21.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Oregon. The people here find themselves at the center of a passionate debate. 03:23.200 --> 03:26.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Increasingly, Americans in rural and urban areas are growing farther 03:26.933 --> 03:31.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and farther apart on critical issues here in Oregon and across the country. 03:33.633 --> 03:34.566 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% SUZANNE METTLER, Cornell University: This is so striking because it did 03:34.566 --> 03:36.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% not exist in the American past. 03:36.766 --> 03:41.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Professor Suzanne Mettler of Cornell University researches the growing divide 03:44.033 --> 03:47.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% between urban and rural Americans, which she says has grown dramatically among white Americans. 03:49.266 --> 03:54.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SUZANNE METTLER: It's only beginning of the 1990s that we began to see rural people in 03:55.833 --> 03:58.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% all parts of the country line up in one political party. Prior to that, 03:58.933 --> 04:03.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% both parties had some supporters in rural places in different parts of the country. 04:03.700 --> 04:08.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But since the 1990s, to be a rural person means in so many places that you're a Republican, 04:11.200 --> 04:16.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and it's led to a wider and wider divide. It's enormous and it's growing. 04:18.033 --> 04:19.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% MATT MCCAW, Spokesman, Greater Idaho Movement: The rural parts of the state 04:19.833 --> 04:21.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have gotten less political power. People are looking for a solution. 04:21.933 --> 04:25.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: The political divide back in Oregon 04:25.466 --> 04:30.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% has been so great that some are calling for drastic changes. 04:30.133 --> 04:35.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Matt McCaw is the spokesman for the Greater Idaho Movement, which wants to break off the eastern, 04:36.800 --> 04:41.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% more conservative counties in Oregon and join neighboring Idaho. 04:41.300 --> 04:44.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MATT MCCAW: The west side of Oregon is very different than the east side. It's 04:44.700 --> 04:48.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% populated. It's green. Its climate's different. The culture's different. 04:48.800 --> 04:52.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% You get out here on the east side, and it's high desert. There's very 04:52.533 --> 04:57.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% little moisture. It's agricultural. It's culturally very conservative. 04:57.000 --> 05:02.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: The proposed Greater Idaho would encompass all or parts of 17 counties 05:03.933 --> 05:07.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in Eastern Oregon. So far, 12 have passed ballot initiatives in favor of leaving. 05:09.300 --> 05:13.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% The latest in Wallowa County passed by just seven votes out of nearly 3, 500. 05:15.433 --> 05:20.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The entire area represents roughly 65 percent of Oregon's land mass, 05:22.366 --> 05:25.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but less than 10 percent of the population and just one of its six congressional districts. 05:27.533 --> 05:29.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MATT MCCAW: You could get those people in Eastern Oregon state government from 05:29.700 --> 05:32.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Idaho that matches their values, is the kind of government they 05:32.600 --> 05:37.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% want. And that longstanding problem of the urban-rural divide goes away. 05:37.233 --> 05:40.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: It would also allow people like him, McCaw says, 05:40.500 --> 05:44.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% to be represented by a government more aligned with his views, 05:44.666 --> 05:49.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% favoring more restrictions on abortion rights, lower taxes and fewer limits on guns. 05:51.766 --> 05:53.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% KERRY TYMCHUK, Executive Director, Oregon Historical Society: It's partisanship on steroids. 05:53.933 --> 05:58.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Kerry Tymchuk, the executive director of the Oregon Historical Society, 06:01.233 --> 06:04.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% dates the widening chasm between the east and west to the diverging economic fortunes in the state. 06:06.400 --> 06:11.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% In 1990, the northern spotted owl was listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, 06:12.933 --> 06:17.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% marking the beginning of the end for Oregon's timber industry and, 06:17.233 --> 06:19.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% with it, jobs for many in the state. 06:19.933 --> 06:24.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KERRY TYMCHUK: There were union jobs, family wage union jobs. Many of the union members, 06:24.300 --> 06:27.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% most were Democrats. And when the environmental movement happened, 06:27.300 --> 06:32.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the spotted owl especially, and they lost all those jobs, it moved them away from the party. 06:34.466 --> 06:38.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% That would be equivalent to what happened in Ohio and Pennsylvania with the manufacturing jobs. 06:38.133 --> 06:41.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SUZANNE METTLER: This is the time period when people in rural areas start to feel 06:41.600 --> 06:46.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% like the economy is bottoming out once you get into the 2000s, 06:46.500 --> 06:49.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and they feel that these policies are being hoisted upon them. 06:49.800 --> 06:52.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Urban areas, Mettler says, 06:52.066 --> 06:56.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% were able to bounce back more quickly from economic downturns. That fueled resentment 06:58.600 --> 07:02.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% from those in rural areas that account for about 20 percent of the U.S. population. 07:04.833 --> 07:08.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% SUZANNE METTLER: That's when we start to see this politics of grievance and resentment. People in 07:08.000 --> 07:13.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% rural places started to feel that the Democratic Party was run by elites, people who were better 07:15.200 --> 07:19.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% off than them, and who were imposing policies on them, without asking them what they would 07:22.800 --> 07:27.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% like or without listening to them or without being respectful of their communities and their values. 07:29.833 --> 07:32.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Tymchuk says, in any event, the political and logistical hurdles for 07:32.933 --> 07:37.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% secession are too high. In order for the border to change, both the Idaho and Oregon 07:40.000 --> 07:43.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% legislatures would have to sign off, and it would require an act of the U.S. Congress. 07:45.966 --> 07:49.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KERRY TYMCHUK: The economics that that would involve, the legal issues would keep -- it 07:51.766 --> 07:55.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% would be a lawyer's dream. There's so much going on there. That is just never going to happen. 07:55.300 --> 07:57.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% LONNY CARTER: So we got 400 cows. 07:57.433 --> 08:02.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: But for rancher Lonny Carter, it's not an idea he's willing to let go of. 08:04.100 --> 08:07.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LONNY CARTER: My grandkids, the owners' kid, it's their right to have a good life 08:09.533 --> 08:11.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% without someone coming in and taxing us to death and telling us we can't do this 08:11.400 --> 08:14.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and we can't do that on our own piece of property. We don't go over there 08:14.700 --> 08:19.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and tell them what they can and can't do. They're destroying their city over there. 08:19.033 --> 08:22.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Have you tried to have a conversation with some of the folks 08:22.066 --> 08:24.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who have a different view on these issues? 08:24.366 --> 08:28.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LONNY CARTER: Oh, yes. They have been pretty interesting. It's been a couple of years. I met 08:28.933 --> 08:33.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with a couple from Portland. They were like, why would you want to do this? And I said, 08:33.700 --> 08:37.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because we don't win. And they said, well, we don't need ranchers or farmers. 08:37.666 --> 08:41.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This lady actually thought you can go to your butcher and tell them what you want, 08:41.866 --> 08:46.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and he pushes a button in a machine and out comes her meat. And that's not a joke. 08:48.933 --> 08:51.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: If the whole country were to say, well, we're going to organize ourselves 08:51.300 --> 08:56.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% only by our -- where -- what our politics are, so some of the country would be red. Some of the 08:58.300 --> 09:01.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% country would be blue. Do you think it's healthy that we divide up into our respective beliefs? 09:03.100 --> 09:05.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% MATT MCCAW: I do. I think it's very healthy. In fact, 09:05.266 --> 09:10.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think it's far healthier than having groups of people that have radically different world 09:12.166 --> 09:15.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% views and value sets trying to force their world view and value set on another group of people. 09:17.400 --> 09:21.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I believe and I think most people in the United States believe that we would be 09:23.800 --> 09:28.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% better if we allow people to have government that makes sense for them and policy that 09:30.700 --> 09:35.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% their communities actually want, rather than forcing policy on people they don't want. 09:36.600 --> 09:38.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: But Mettler says movements like 09:38.500 --> 09:42.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Greater Idaho go against the grain of our democratic system of government. 09:42.733 --> 09:47.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SUZANNE METTLER: I have heard of some other efforts where bills have been introduced for 09:47.400 --> 09:51.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% parts of the state to separate that's even happened here in New York state. We could 09:51.933 --> 09:56.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% see the whole country getting divided up and into multiple states or seceding to join other states. 09:59.933 --> 10:04.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And this is no way to -- it's no way to have a democracy. It's no 10:06.833 --> 10:11.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% way to engage in trying to solve large public problems together. 10:14.233 --> 10:17.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Professor Mettler says divides like this can be 10:17.033 --> 10:20.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% bridged by building coalitions and respect. 10:20.700 --> 10:25.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% SUZANNE METTLER: I think Democrats in a state like that need to work harder to 10:27.900 --> 10:31.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% listen to rural people and finding out why is it that people don't like the way some policy 10:34.000 --> 10:38.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% was put together and is there a way to do it that would make people more satisfied? 10:40.633 --> 10:44.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Despite the challenges, coffee shop owner Ian Williams remains 10:44.566 --> 10:49.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% convinced it's possible to learn where others are coming from. 10:49.033 --> 10:54.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% In 2020 he took a road trip across Oregon and as far away as Texas, 10:56.100 --> 10:59.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% documenting it all on social media. He brought his coffee setup in the back of his truck, 11:01.833 --> 11:05.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% sneakers and all, served people coffee and had conversations he otherwise never would have had. 11:07.433 --> 11:11.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% IAN WILLIAMS: How do we meet in the middle and say, like, I understand what you got going on in 11:11.866 --> 11:16.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% your community and your -- with your family, with your people? We don't get on the same 11:16.033 --> 11:21.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% page. We just start with, you're wrong. We don't do a good enough job understanding. 11:23.133 --> 11:25.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: In Crook County in Eastern Oregon, 11:25.833 --> 11:30.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% voters will weigh in May on the next ballot measure to support talks to join Idaho. 11:33.000 --> 11:38.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Judy Woodruff near Post, Oregon.