1 00:00:01,366 --> 00:00:03,433 GEOFF BENNETT: NASA's partnership with the private 2 00:00:03,433 --> 00:00:06,733 sector took another key step forward this weekend with a successful moon landing. 3 00:00:08,433 --> 00:00:09,000 MAN: We're on the moon. 4 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:17,233 GEOFF BENNETT: The Blue Ghost lunar lander measuring only about six-by-11-feet stuck 5 00:00:17,233 --> 00:00:22,233 the landing safely early Sunday, making it the first commercial spacecraft to do 6 00:00:24,133 --> 00:00:27,100 so after others tried, but crashed or tipped over once they got to the moon. 7 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:30,400 Blue Ghost is built by the private company Firefly 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:35,266 Aerospace. It's carrying a number of experiments for NASA and is part of a 9 00:00:35,266 --> 00:00:40,133 larger effort to have private companies make deliveries for larger missions. 10 00:00:40,133 --> 00:00:42,300 Miles O'Brien joins us now. 11 00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:46,766 Miles, it's always great to see you. So what is the significance of this Blue Ghost landing? 12 00:00:46,766 --> 00:00:50,066 MILES O'BRIEN: Well, Geoff, it's a big accomplishment for a small private 13 00:00:50,066 --> 00:00:55,033 enterprise to land on the moon. This is not easy stuff. As they say, rocket science is hard. 14 00:00:56,566 --> 00:01:00,133 This is part of the overall Artemis program and is truly a 15 00:01:00,133 --> 00:01:04,900 highlight in a program which is facing a lot of trouble. Artemis, of course, 16 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:09,833 is the return to the moon campaign over several years. These missions, 17 00:01:09,833 --> 00:01:14,833 and this is one of about 11 or so in the coming years, are designed to scout out the surface, 18 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,000 determine the radiation environment, try to figure out what to do about that difficult lunar dust, 19 00:01:24,066 --> 00:01:28,300 which can be very sticky and sharp, and also learn how to navigate and land successfully. 20 00:01:30,033 --> 00:01:34,666 They were able, interestingly, to use the Earth-based GPS system to 21 00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:39,200 get a fix. So that actually portends well for navigating in the future, 22 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,833 so a glimmer of hope in an otherwise troubled program. 23 00:01:42,833 --> 00:01:44,333 GEOFF BENNETT: A glimmer of hope indeed. 24 00:01:44,333 --> 00:01:47,966 How much of a boost is this for Artemis? 25 00:01:47,966 --> 00:01:50,466 MILES O'BRIEN: Well, it helps. 26 00:01:50,466 --> 00:01:54,400 And it puts Artemis in people's minds. But at the center of Artemis is a giant what some might call 27 00:01:57,766 --> 00:02:02,733 white elephant of a rocket. It's now coming in at about $90 billion. I'm talking about the Space 28 00:02:04,966 --> 00:02:08,733 Launch System. And it's had a very long and slow and continually delayed effort to get into space. 29 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:18,400 At this point, NASA is projecting a moon landing in 2027. But that's probably pretty optimistic. 30 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,200 So this is a program that is looking like it is a ripe target for the DOGE world. 31 00:02:29,833 --> 00:02:33,900 GEOFF BENNETT: Well, it raises the question, what is Elon Musk's stance on Artemis, 32 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:37,966 especially since he has his own private spaceflight company, SpaceX? 33 00:02:37,966 --> 00:02:40,133 MILES O'BRIEN: He's not a big fan. 34 00:02:40,133 --> 00:02:44,666 But, interestingly, he does have a key part to play in Artemis. His Starship is -- would be 35 00:02:47,033 --> 00:02:50,600 modified and used to actually do the last bit and land on the lunar surface. But the space launch 36 00:02:52,633 --> 00:02:57,333 system itself, he's described as inefficient, a jobs program, not a results program. 37 00:02:59,333 --> 00:03:02,700 And he said he wants to go straight to Mars,the moon is a distraction. So that 38 00:03:04,466 --> 00:03:08,700 lends itself to a lot of speculation right now that Artemis could very well 39 00:03:08,700 --> 00:03:13,700 be on the chopping block. But we will have to wait and see. The future administrator, 40 00:03:15,633 --> 00:03:19,600 the potential administrator, I guess we would expect him to be the administrator, 41 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:24,600 Jared Isaacman, the billionaire who is slated to do that, has hearings. 42 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,933 And at that time, we will hear a little bit more about his thoughts on it. But he also 43 00:03:29,933 --> 00:03:34,933 calls it a very expensive way to go. So we will see what happens. But this could be -- these 44 00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:41,133 missions, these CLPS missions, could be the real highlight of Artemis when all is said and done. 45 00:03:43,066 --> 00:03:46,033 GEOFF BENNETT: Miles, is that a widely held view that Artemis is inefficient? I mean, 46 00:03:46,033 --> 00:03:48,366 is this program really in trouble? 47 00:03:48,366 --> 00:03:53,100 MILES O'BRIEN: Well, when you look at a rocket that is that far over budget and that delayed, 48 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,333 and the key point here, Geoff, is that the rocket they're building is based 49 00:03:57,333 --> 00:04:01,133 on old shuttle and basically Saturn V technology. 50 00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:06,133 It goes back many decades. It was supposed to be faster and cheaper. But what they're building 51 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,866 is turning out to be very expensive, and it is single-use. And of course, 52 00:04:10,866 --> 00:04:15,866 what SpaceX and Elon Musk have been focused on all this time are reusable rockets. And 53 00:04:17,766 --> 00:04:22,066 that obviously over time drives down the cost tremendously of getting to space. 54 00:04:22,066 --> 00:04:26,733 And that Starship, although it's not flown a perfect mission yet, 55 00:04:26,733 --> 00:04:31,733 has flown about a half-a-dozen times. And it flies a lot cheaper than the 56 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:37,333 Space Launch System, which right now is - - it's unclear when it will fly next. 57 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,500 GEOFF BENNETT: Miles O'Brien, our thanks to you, as always. 58 00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:42,700 MILES O'BRIEN: You're welcome, Geoff.