1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,500 JOHN YANG: Good evening. I'm John Yang. Tonight, 2 00:00:03,500 --> 00:00:07,833 Washington and European capitals are still feeling the reverberations of yesterday's heated 3 00:00:09,966 --> 00:00:13,100 Oval Office exchange between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. 4 00:00:15,233 --> 00:00:18,400 Hours after Mr. Trump scolded Zelenskyy for not showing enough appreciation for U.S. support, 5 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:23,833 the Ukrainian leader posted on X. We are very grateful to the United States for all the support. 6 00:00:25,933 --> 00:00:29,666 I'm thankful to President Trump, Congress for their bipartisan support and the American people. 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,366 He also reiterated his opposition to a quick ceasefire that President 8 00:00:34,366 --> 00:00:38,933 Trump wants, saying Russian leader Vladimir Putin can't be trusted. 9 00:00:38,933 --> 00:00:42,133 Now Zelenskyy is in London to rally the support of European 10 00:00:42,133 --> 00:00:46,233 leaders. Today he met with U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer, and tomorrow 11 00:00:46,233 --> 00:00:50,433 he'll attend a European summit in London to discuss the way forward. 12 00:00:50,433 --> 00:00:55,400 Kurt Volker is a former U.S. Special envoy to Ukraine and a former U.S. Ambassador to NATO. 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,166 Mr. Volker, what do you expect to come out of this European summit tomorrow 14 00:01:00,166 --> 00:01:02,300 that Zelinsky is attending? 15 00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:04,733 KURT VOLKER, Former Special Envoy to Ukraine: Well, I think there are some good things that 16 00:01:04,733 --> 00:01:08,533 we've seen already, these expressions of European support and solidarity for Ukraine. I think it's 17 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:14,200 important for Zelenskyy psychologically. I think it's also important for the Ukrainian people. 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:19,200 But I hope that behind closed doors they're actually talking about what kind of things need 19 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:24,200 to be done to get Ukraine and the United States and Europe all on the same page again. We can't be 20 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,866 creating a dynamic of Europe and Ukraine against the United States. We all have to pull together. 21 00:01:31,966 --> 00:01:36,133 And there I think it's going to be a matter of Europe being willing to put on the table 22 00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:41,766 forces for security assurances for Ukraine. And I think it's got to be 23 00:01:41,766 --> 00:01:46,733 President Zelenskyy saying that he wants peace. He wants to have a ceasefire. He 24 00:01:48,833 --> 00:01:52,033 will agree to one as soon as Putin to get things back on track with the U.S. as well. 25 00:01:54,366 --> 00:01:57,400 JOHN YANG: If U.S. aid were to be cut or even go away, could Zelenskyy, could Ukraine go on with 26 00:01:59,333 --> 00:02:02,666 just European support? Are there enough forces and hardware to keep them going? 27 00:02:04,633 --> 00:02:08,266 KURT VOLKER: It's not enough. It's good. It is supportive. It'll buy Ukraine time. 28 00:02:08,266 --> 00:02:13,266 But the U.S. provides many unique capabilities, including intelligence, satellites, training, 29 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:20,233 equipping, logistics. There is so much that the U.S. is doing here that is vital to. This 30 00:02:22,366 --> 00:02:26,000 is not enough Europe on its own, although it is very important that Europe play a major role. 31 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,500 JOHN YANG: You say it's important to get all three sides, Ukraine, United States and Europe on 32 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:34,500 the same side, but in European capitals, aren't they seeing what happened yesterday and him, 33 00:02:36,833 --> 00:02:40,900 the way he talked and the way he talked about the war in Ukraine. A message to Europe that you're on 34 00:02:43,066 --> 00:02:46,333 your own. I mean, war in Ukraine, obviously, is about European security to the European leaders. 35 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:51,866 KURT VOLKER: No, I don't think that was the message. I think the message was that 36 00:02:51,866 --> 00:02:56,833 we got to get Putin to the negotiating table. You don't want to bash Putin, 37 00:02:58,966 --> 00:03:01,833 criticize him personally, and then never get an end to the war. If you want to end the war, 38 00:03:01,833 --> 00:03:04,633 you got to get Putin to the negotiating table. 39 00:03:04,633 --> 00:03:09,633 Basically taking a position that is firmly fighting against Putin. Trump is not going 40 00:03:12,233 --> 00:03:17,233 to do that he wants to actually end the war right now. And so he's being careful not to 41 00:03:19,266 --> 00:03:23,666 position himself that way. Unfortunately, what happened in that meeting, Zelenskyy, 42 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,733 I think, missed a real opportunity to get the U.S. and Ukraine in alignment. 43 00:03:32,133 --> 00:03:35,466 Trump has been putting together this concept, if you will, of ceasefire reciprocity with Ukraine, 44 00:03:37,633 --> 00:03:42,466 where we get paid back for military assistance. So it's a fair deal for the American people. 45 00:03:44,566 --> 00:03:47,666 Deterrence in terms of security assurances and European presence so Putin doesn't attack again, 46 00:03:49,733 --> 00:03:53,500 and improving the burden sharing ratio so that Europe does more, the US does relatively less. 47 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,666 JOHN YANG: But since this meeting, he's also said that he doesn't want a quick ceasefire 48 00:04:01,433 --> 00:04:03,600 because he doesn't think Putin will keep his commitments. Clearly, 49 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,300 that's what President Trump wants. How do you bridge that gap and save this relationship? 50 00:04:10,366 --> 00:04:13,400 KURT VOLKER: Yeah, exactly. And Zelenskyy needs to reframe the way he's talking about 51 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,466 this. Saying he doesn't want a ceasefire because he doesn't trust Putin is the 52 00:04:17,466 --> 00:04:22,066 wrong way to say it. The way to say it is he wants a ceasefire as soon as 53 00:04:22,066 --> 00:04:27,066 Putin agrees to do that as well. And it will never be Ukraine that is the first to break. 54 00:04:29,166 --> 00:04:32,866 But if Putin breaks a ceasefire, Ukraine will defend itself. He needs to flip it back onto 55 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,933 Putin and say that Ukraine is willing and ready for peace. It's Putin. That's not. 56 00:04:37,933 --> 00:04:41,500 JOHN YANG: Yesterday in the Oval Office meeting, we saw a continuation of a pattern 57 00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:46,200 of President Trump not criticizing Putin, as a matter of fact, expressing sympathy 58 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:51,200 with Putin while excoriating the leader of the country that Putin invaded. Why is that? 59 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:55,700 KURT VOLKER: Well, I think you have to go back to earlier in the 60 00:04:55,700 --> 00:05:00,100 meeting. Trump was very positive towards Zelenskyy toward Ukraine 61 00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:05,033 praising Ukrainian soldiers. He was setting this up to be very positive for Zelenskyy. And it was 62 00:05:07,266 --> 00:05:11,466 only after Zelenskyy then responded to J.D. Vance talking about diplomacy that it became a bit of 63 00:05:13,866 --> 00:05:18,500 a back and forth in an argument. And then you saw Trump lash out and criticize President Zelenskyy. 64 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:25,200 As far as Putin goes, Trump is trying to avoid personalizing and demonizing Putin 65 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,733 because he needs to get Putin to the table. And I think President Trump thought he was getting 66 00:05:29,733 --> 00:05:34,733 this all together. He was moving Putin that way. He was working with President Zelenskyy. 67 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:40,133 He was shaping a deal that would put the U.S. And Ukraine in alignment. And then 68 00:05:42,033 --> 00:05:43,733 that discussion, the Oval Office just got out of hand and blew everything up. 69 00:05:43,733 --> 00:05:46,533 JOHN YANG: Former Ambassador Kurt Volker, thank you very much. 70 00:05:46,533 --> 00:05:48,033 KURT VOLKER: Thank you.