WEBVTT

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JOHN YANG: Good evening.
I'm John Yang. Tonight,

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Washington and European
capitals are still
feeling the reverberations
of yesterday's heated

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Oval Office exchange between
President Trump and Ukrainian
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

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Hours after Mr. Trump scolded
Zelenskyy for not showing enough
appreciation for U.S. support,

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the Ukrainian leader
posted on X. We are very
grateful to the United
States for all the support.

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I'm thankful to President Trump,
Congress for their bipartisan
support and the American people.

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He also reiterated his
opposition to a quick
ceasefire that President

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Trump wants, saying
Russian leader Vladimir
Putin can't be trusted.

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Now Zelenskyy is in London to
rally the support of European

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leaders. Today he met
with U.K. Prime Minister
Keir Starmer, and tomorrow

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he'll attend a European
summit in London to
discuss the way forward.

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Kurt Volker is a former U.S.
Special envoy to Ukraine and a
former U.S. Ambassador to NATO.

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Mr. Volker, what do you
expect to come out of this
European summit tomorrow

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that Zelinsky is attending?

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KURT VOLKER, Former Special
Envoy to Ukraine: Well, I think
there are some good things that

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we've seen already, these
expressions of European
support and solidarity
for Ukraine. I think it's

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important for Zelenskyy
psychologically. I think
it's also important for
the Ukrainian people.

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But I hope that behind closed
doors they're actually talking
about what kind of things need

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to be done to get Ukraine
and the United States and
Europe all on the same
page again. We can't be

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creating a dynamic of
Europe and Ukraine against
the United States. We all
have to pull together.

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And there I think it's going
to be a matter of Europe being
willing to put on the table

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forces for security
assurances for Ukraine.
And I think it's got to be

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President Zelenskyy saying
that he wants peace. He
wants to have a ceasefire. He

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will agree to one as soon as
Putin to get things back on
track with the U.S. as well.

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JOHN YANG: If U.S. aid
were to be cut or even
go away, could Zelenskyy,
could Ukraine go on with

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just European support? Are
there enough forces and
hardware to keep them going?

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KURT VOLKER: It's not enough.
It's good. It is supportive.
It'll buy Ukraine time.

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But the U.S. provides
many unique capabilities,
including intelligence,
satellites, training,

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equipping, logistics. There is
so much that the U.S. is doing
here that is vital to. This

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is not enough Europe on its own,
although it is very important
that Europe play a major role.

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JOHN YANG: You say it's
important to get all three
sides, Ukraine, United
States and Europe on

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the same side, but in European
capitals, aren't they seeing
what happened yesterday and him,

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the way he talked and the
way he talked about the
war in Ukraine. A message
to Europe that you're on

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your own. I mean, war in
Ukraine, obviously, is
about European security
to the European leaders.

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KURT VOLKER: No, I don't
think that was the message.
I think the message was that

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we got to get Putin to
the negotiating table. You
don't want to bash Putin,

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criticize him personally, and
then never get an end to the
war. If you want to end the war,

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you got to get Putin to
the negotiating table.

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Basically taking a position
that is firmly fighting against
Putin. Trump is not going

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to do that he wants to actually
end the war right now. And
so he's being careful not to

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position himself that way.
Unfortunately, what happened
in that meeting, Zelenskyy,

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I think, missed a real
opportunity to get the U.S.
and Ukraine in alignment.

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Trump has been putting
together this concept,
if you will, of ceasefire
reciprocity with Ukraine,

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where we get paid back
for military assistance.
So it's a fair deal for
the American people.

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Deterrence in terms of security
assurances and European presence
so Putin doesn't attack again,

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and improving the burden sharing
ratio so that Europe does more,
the US does relatively less.

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JOHN YANG: But since this
meeting, he's also said that he
doesn't want a quick ceasefire

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because he doesn't think
Putin will keep his
commitments. Clearly,

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that's what President Trump
wants. How do you bridge that
gap and save this relationship?

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KURT VOLKER: Yeah, exactly.
And Zelenskyy needs to reframe
the way he's talking about

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this. Saying he doesn't
want a ceasefire because he
doesn't trust Putin is the

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wrong way to say it. The
way to say it is he wants
a ceasefire as soon as

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Putin agrees to do that as well.
And it will never be Ukraine
that is the first to break.

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But if Putin breaks a ceasefire,
Ukraine will defend itself.
He needs to flip it back onto

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Putin and say that Ukraine
is willing and ready for
peace. It's Putin. That's not.

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JOHN YANG: Yesterday in the
Oval Office meeting, we saw
a continuation of a pattern

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of President Trump not
criticizing Putin, as a matter
of fact, expressing sympathy

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with Putin while excoriating
the leader of the country that
Putin invaded. Why is that?

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KURT VOLKER: Well, I
think you have to go
back to earlier in the

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meeting. Trump was very positive
towards Zelenskyy toward Ukraine

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praising Ukrainian soldiers.
He was setting this up
to be very positive for
Zelenskyy. And it was

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only after Zelenskyy then
responded to J.D. Vance
talking about diplomacy
that it became a bit of

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a back and forth in an
argument. And then you saw
Trump lash out and criticize
President Zelenskyy.

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As far as Putin goes, Trump is
trying to avoid personalizing
and demonizing Putin

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because he needs to get Putin to
the table. And I think President
Trump thought he was getting

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this all together. He was moving
Putin that way. He was working
with President Zelenskyy.

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He was shaping a deal that
would put the U.S. And
Ukraine in alignment. And then

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that discussion, the Oval
Office just got out of hand
and blew everything up.

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JOHN YANG: Former
Ambassador Kurt Volker,
thank you very much.

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KURT VOLKER: Thank you.