WEBVTT

00:01.701 --> 00:05.271 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: Israel and Hamas
have agreed to#
pause fighting in Gaza to allow
hundreds of##

00:05.271 --> 00:09.743 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
thousands of children to receive
polio#
vaccinations. Those pauses will
occur##

00:09.743 --> 00:14.647 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
in specific locations for eight
to nine#
hours a day over three days
beginning on##

00:14.647 --> 00:21.688 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Sunday. The World Health
Organization aims to#
vaccinate 640,000 children under
the age of 10.

00:21.688 --> 00:25.525 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Meanwhile, in the West Bank, at
least#
16 people have been killed in
what the##

00:25.525 --> 00:31.364 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Israeli military calls
counterterrorism raids#
that began Wednesday in the
cities of Jenin,##

00:31.364 --> 00:36.803 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Tulkarm, and the al-Fara'a
refugee camp.

00:36.803 --> 00:42.042 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Among five militants Israeli
forces say#
they killed today in the city of
Tulkarm,##

00:42.042 --> 00:48.114 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Mohammed Jaber, a local
commander they long#
pursued. The Palestinian Islamic
Jihad, the##

00:48.114 --> 00:54.821 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
militant force backed by Iran,
confirmed Jaber's#
death. Israeli officials say
Jaber was linked to##

00:54.821 --> 01:01.561 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
-- quote -- "numerous terror
attacks," including#
the June death of an Israeli
man, Amnon Muchtar.

01:01.561 --> 01:04.197 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Jaber was killed in an overnight
gun battle near a##

01:04.197 --> 01:08.101 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
mosque which left residents#
caught in the crossfire.

01:08.101 --> 01:13.339 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Khaled Abu Al-Ghiyab says he and
his#
wife barely escaped their home
alive.

01:13.339 --> 01:14.174 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
KHALED ABU AL-GHIYAB, West Bank
Resident#
(through translator): The house
went up in##

01:14.174 --> 01:18.545 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
flames as they shot three, four
ro..

01:18.545 --> 01:24.651 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
got out. My wife's shoulder and
arm were#
burned. Thank God it only came
to that.

01:24.651 --> 01:30.223 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, families
at the#
al-Fara'a refugee camp buried
their dead,##

01:30.223 --> 01:36.563 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
four killed in an Israeli raid
yesterday.#
Masoud Naaja's survived that
raid. Today,##

01:36.563 --> 01:41.401 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
he buried his two children, who
did not.

01:41.401 --> 01:46.406 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
The IDF released this drone
footage today#
they say showing a militant base
inside##

01:46.406 --> 01:52.112 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
a mosque in the camp. Their
forces have#
now withdrawn from al-Fara'a.
Also today,##

01:52.112 --> 01:57.584 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant
said returning#
Israeli citizens to their homes
along the Lebanese##

01:57.584 --> 02:04.023 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
border, where fighting with
Hezbollah#
continues, must be a goal of the
war.

02:04.023 --> 02:11.264 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Just yesterday, rescued hostage
Qaid Farhan#
Alkadi returned to his village
home near Rahat.

02:11.264 --> 02:13.399 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
QAID FARHAN ALKADI, Rescued
Hostage (through#
translator): I feel 100 percent
and next to you##

02:13.399 --> 02:17.470 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
another 200 percent. Do
everything#
you can, if it's
demonstrations,##

02:17.470 --> 02:21.608 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
everything to bring the people
home from this#
side to the other, and from the
other side,##

02:21.608 --> 02:26.613 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
to bring them back as well. For
me, they#
are all human beings, no matter
what.

02:26.613 --> 02:29.949 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: His return is#
bittersweet. Israel has said##

02:29.949 --> 02:34.654 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
that his bedouin Arab village
was built#
without permits and has plans to
demolish##

02:34.654 --> 02:40.693 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
70 percent of homes there.
Alkadi's home#
has not received a demolition
notice.

02:40.693 --> 02:46.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
For perspective on Israel's
operation in#
the West Bank, we turn to Steven
Erlanger,##

02:46.166 --> 02:49.802 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
chief diplomatic correspondent
for#
The New York Times. He
previously##

02:49.802 --> 02:54.107 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
met with the Islamic Jihad
leader#
who Israeli forces killed today.

02:54.107 --> 02:56.042 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Steven, welcome and thanks for
joining us.

02:56.042 --> 03:01.014 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
So these Israeli forces had been
trying to#
kill Mohammed Jaber for a very
long time.##

03:01.014 --> 03:05.285 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
They actually thought that
they'd done#
so back in April, and then he
emerged##

03:05.285 --> 03:11.958 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
alive three days later to kind
of cult status#
among people there for
surviving. But tell us,##

03:11.958 --> 03:17.597 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
who was Mohammed Jaber and why
was#
he one of Israel's most wanted
men?

03:17.597 --> 03:20.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
STEVEN ERLANGER, The New York
Times:#
Well, he was the leader of a
group of##

03:20.733 --> 03:26.873 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
militants in the Tulkarm refugee
camp.#
And he'd organized them very
well.

03:26.873 --> 03:35.181 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
So there was a collective of
militants from#
Fatah, from all the other
factions. And after##

03:35.181 --> 03:43.389 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
the October 7 invasion by Hamas,
they started#
to recruit more people. And,
spirited by that,##

03:43.389 --> 03:53.132 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
encouraged by that invasion,
many of them,#
like this kid Abu Shuja'a turned
to Islamic##

03:53.132 --> 03:59.839 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Jihad or to Hamas away from
Fatah, because#
they felt that Hamas had
actually broken##

03:59.839 --> 04:07.447 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
through a complete stagnation in
the#
prospect of Palestinian
nationhood.

04:07.447 --> 04:13.886 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
And so for a lot of people, he
was a hero#
because he kept surviving
Israeli efforts##

04:13.886 --> 04:22.061 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
to kill him. But he represented
a new#
generation of young Palestinian
militants##

04:22.061 --> 04:29.769 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
willing to fight and die for
their dream of#
a free and independent Palestine
and to drive##

04:30.603 --> 04:35.074 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Israeli occupiers, as they see#
them, out of the West Bank.

04:35.074 --> 04:38.011 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: And Steven, just to
clarify,#
Abu Shuja'a, who you referenced
there,##

04:38.011 --> 04:43.049 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
that's the nom de guerre of
Mohammed Jaber.#
It translates to father of the
brave.

04:43.049 --> 04:48.988 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
But when you met with him in
person a reporting#
trip to Tulkarm in the West Bank
earlier this year##

04:48.988 --> 04:52.792 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
and he told you he'd switched
allegiances#
from the more moderate Fatah to
the more##

04:52.792 --> 04:57.830 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
extremist Islamic Jihad, what
was the reason#
for that? Was that just because
of October 7##

04:57.830 --> 05:01.234 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
or had that been building for a
while?
STEVEN ERLANGER: He switched to
Islamic##

05:01.234 --> 05:08.641 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Jihad partly because everyone
among#
his peers have lost faith in
the##

05:08.641 --> 05:14.213 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Palestinian Authority. They
regard#
them as collaborating with
Israel.

05:14.213 --> 05:19.052 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
And they have been very
offended#
that the Palestinian security
forces,##

05:19.052 --> 05:26.492 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
whenever Israel would come to
attack people#
like Abu Shuja'a, did not fight
the Israelis,##

05:26.492 --> 05:31.364 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but either collaborated with#
them or actually stayed at home.

05:31.364 --> 05:38.805 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
So there's also been a growing
dissatisfaction#
with the leader of the
Palestinian Authority,##

05:38.805 --> 05:45.311 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Mahmoud Abbas, and also the
feeling that the#
Palestinian state was really
going nowhere,##

05:45.311 --> 05:49.382 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
that there was a stagnation,#
that life looked hopeless.

05:49.382 --> 05:55.888 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
And as ugly as the Hamas
invasion#
was, for many young
Palestinians,##

05:55.888 --> 06:02.562 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
it expressed a degree of hope
that their#
own situation was not hopeless
forever.

06:02.562 --> 06:07.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: We just saw today
the United#
Nations secretary-general,
Antonio Guterres,##

06:07.166 --> 06:12.071 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
say that these Israeli raids are
fueling what#
he called an already explosive
situation in##

06:12.071 --> 06:17.310 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
the West Bank, but he also said
they could#
further undermine the
Palestinian Authority.

06:17.310 --> 06:19.011 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
What do you make of that?

06:19.011 --> 06:23.316 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
STEVEN ERLANGER: Well, I think
the Palestinian#
Authority is pretty well
undermined in ..

06:23.316 --> 06:28.621 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
partly through its own faults,
but also#
through the Israeli government's
decision##

06:28.621 --> 06:35.061 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
to withhold taxes from them, and
also after#
October 7 they have closed the
West Bank.

06:35.061 --> 06:41.701 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
So Palestinians who had legal
permits to work#
in Israel could no longer go to
Israel to work,##

06:41.701 --> 06:47.473 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
and Palestinians living in
Israel could no#
longer go to places like Jenin
and Tulkarm to##

06:47.473 --> 06:54.747 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
even shop, so the economy
crashed. And the#
Palestinian Authority was
already weakened.

06:54.747 --> 06:59.685 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Now you have these far right
ministers inside#
the Israeli government who talk
about annexing##

06:59.685 --> 07:06.726 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
the West Bank who are
encouraging settlers to#
take more ground. So all of this
does fuel more##

07:06.726 --> 07:14.801 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
militancy and creates anxiety
among the Israeli#
military that there will be a
new wave of suicide##

07:14.801 --> 07:24.477 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
bombings and explosives used
against Israelis#
in Israel proper, let alone
among the settlers.

07:24.477 --> 07:25.311 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Steven, as you
know,##

07:25.311 --> 07:30.783 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Israel says the goal of this
operatio..

07:30.783 --> 07:35.721 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
as you have reported on, has
taken hold in many#
of the refugee camps there in
the West Bank.

07:35.721 --> 07:41.060 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Knowing what you know about
that#
force, is that goal attainable?

07:41.060 --> 07:45.998 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
STEVEN ERLANGER: Well, it's
impossible#
to defeat an idea. This, we
understand,##

07:45.998 --> 07:52.872 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
whether it's expressed by Hamas#
or by Fatah or by these kids.

07:52.872 --> 08:00.713 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
They have a dream of an
independent Palestine.#
They have a dream of their land
taken back,##

08:00.713 --> 08:06.919 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
of Israeli settlers and
occupiers gone.#
And there's going to be very
little that##

08:06.919 --> 08:12.225 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Israel can do to destroy that.
The idea#
of a two-state solution, I have
to say,##

08:12.225 --> 08:21.534 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
seems farther away than ever.And
it would require#
giving Palestinians authority
and sovereignty and##

08:21.534 --> 08:29.208 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
control over their own lives
that Israel, for its#
stated security reasons, is not
prepared to give.

08:29.208 --> 08:35.815 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
So I see this third-front#
war going on indefinitely.

08:35.815 --> 08:40.052 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
AMNA NAWAZ: That is Steven
Erlanger, chief#
diplomatic correspondent for The
New York Times.

08:40.052 --> 08:42.822 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Steven, thank you so much. Good
to speak with you.

08:42.822 --> 08:43.756 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
STEVEN ERLANGER: Thank you.