1 00:00:03,933 --> 00:00:08,533 JOHN: TONIGHT ON PBS NEWS WEEKEND, TURMOIL AT THE CDC 2 00:00:08,533 --> 00:00:12,233 AFTER THE DIRECTOR IS ABRUPTLY FIRED, AS HEALTH SECRETARY 3 00:00:12,233 --> 00:00:17,100 ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. EYES SWEEPING VACCINE POLICY CHANGES. 4 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:20,866 THEN, HOW AI CHATBOTS MAY BE TRIGGERING DISTORTED THOUGHTS IN 5 00:00:20,866 --> 00:00:24,000 USERS AND HARMING THEIR MENTAL HEALTH. 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,033 AND NEARLY A YEAR AFTER HURRICANE HELENE, WE MEET 7 00:00:27,033 --> 00:00:30,866 VOLUNTEERS FROM AROUND THE WORLD STILL AT WORK RESTORING THE 8 00:00:30,866 --> 00:00:34,166 FAMED APPALACHIAN TRAIL. >> THE OVERRIDING THING I THINK 9 00:00:34,166 --> 00:00:36,566 THEY LEAVE WITH IS THE FEELING THAT THEY'RE PART OF SOMETHING 10 00:00:36,566 --> 00:00:39,700 THAT'S BIGGER THAN THEM. THEY KNOW THEY'RE CONNECTED TO 11 00:00:39,700 --> 00:00:41,233 OTHER PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT THE 12 00:00:41,233 --> 00:00:43,533 SAME THINGS AND THAT MIGHT BE 13 00:00:43,533 --> 00:00:48,500 THE HIGHEST VALUE. 14 00:00:55,933 --> 00:00:56,400 ♪ 15 00:01:06,466 --> 00:01:11,466 JOHN: GOOD EVENING. I'M JOHN YANG. 16 00:01:57,766 --> 00:01:59,466 ON THIS LABOR DAY WEEKEND, 17 00:01:59,466 --> 00:02:02,866 THERE'S BEEN NO HOLIDAY FROM THE TURMOIL AND CONTROVERSY AT THE 18 00:02:02,866 --> 00:02:06,300 AGENCY IN CHARGE OF PROTECTING THE AMERICAN PUBLIC'S HEALTH. 19 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:09,333 SEVERAL CDC LEADERS HAVE RESIGNED AFTER THE WHITE HOUSE 20 00:02:09,333 --> 00:02:12,700 OUSTED THE AGENCY'S NEW DIRECTOR, DR. SUSAN MONAREZ, 21 00:02:12,700 --> 00:02:15,200 AFTER LESS THAN A MONTH IN THE POSITION. 22 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,700 HER LAWYERS SAY IT'S BECAUSE SHE REFUSED TO "RUBBER STAMP 23 00:02:18,700 --> 00:02:23,266 UNSCIENTIFIC" DIRECTIVES AND "FIRE DEDICATED HEALTH EXPERTS." 24 00:02:23,266 --> 00:02:27,200 IN JUST SIX MONTHS, THE AGENCY HAS LOST NEARLY HALF ITS BUDGET, 25 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,633 THOUSANDS OF EMPLOYEES, AND IS CAUGHT IN A POLITICAL STRUGGLE 26 00:02:30,633 --> 00:02:34,866 AS HEALTH SECRETARY ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. MOVES TO RESHAPE THE 27 00:02:34,866 --> 00:02:37,900 NATION'S VACCINE POLICIES. IN AN ESSAY IN THE NEW YORK 28 00:02:37,900 --> 00:02:40,933 TIMES THIS WEEKEND, DEMOCRATIC SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS OF 29 00:02:40,933 --> 00:02:44,300 VERMONT CALLED FOR KENNEDY'S RESIGNATION. 30 00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:47,866 ALI ROGIN SAT DOWN WITH DR. RICHARD BESSER, WHO WAS ACTING 31 00:02:47,866 --> 00:02:50,566 CDC DIRECTOR IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. 32 00:02:50,566 --> 00:02:54,433 HE'S NOW CEO OF THE ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION WHICH, WE 33 00:02:54,433 --> 00:02:56,666 SHOULD NOTE, IS A FUNDER OF PBS NEWS. 34 00:02:56,666 --> 00:02:59,633 ALI: DR. RICHARD BESSER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. 35 00:02:59,633 --> 00:03:03,033 YOU'VE BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH DR. MONAREZ. 36 00:03:03,033 --> 00:03:08,033 WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT SECRETARY KENNEDY ASKED HER 37 00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:11,400 TO DO THAT WAS REALLY A RED LINE FOR HER? 38 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,600 DR. BESSER: YEAH, IT WAS REALLY COINCIDENTAL. 39 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,866 SHE AND I HAD A MEETING SCHEDULED FOR WEDNESDAY. 40 00:03:16,866 --> 00:03:21,866 I REACH OUT TO ALL DIRECTORS OF THE CDC TO OFFER MY SUPPORT AND 41 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:24,866 SHE THANKED ME AND SAID THAT SHE DIDN'T EXPECT TO BE IN THE 42 00:03:24,866 --> 00:03:28,133 POSITION LONG, THAT SHE HAD TWO LINES THAT SHE WOULD NOT CROSS 43 00:03:28,133 --> 00:03:31,266 WHEN SHE TOOK THE JOB. ONE WAS SHE WOULD NEVER DO 44 00:03:31,266 --> 00:03:34,633 ANYTHING THAT WAS ILLEGAL. AND SHE WAS ASKED TO FIRE HER 45 00:03:34,633 --> 00:03:38,300 LEADERSHIP TEAM WHICH SHE FELT WAS ILLEGAL GIVEN THAT THEY WERE 46 00:03:38,300 --> 00:03:42,066 OUTSTANDING PUBLIC SERVANTS AND THEN THE OTHER WAS SHE WOULD NOT 47 00:03:42,066 --> 00:03:45,033 PROMOTE ANYTHING THAT WASN'T SUPPORTED BY THE BEST SCIENCE. 48 00:03:45,033 --> 00:03:49,100 AND SHE WAS ASKED BY THE SECRETARY TO AGREE TO APPROVE 49 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:52,633 ANY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THE IMMUNIZATION ADVISORY 50 00:03:52,633 --> 00:03:56,966 COMMITTEE TO THE CDC. SHE REFUSED AND EXPECTED THAT 51 00:03:56,966 --> 00:04:00,500 SHORTLY AFTER OUR CALL SHE WOULD BE DISMISSED. 52 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:04,933 ALI: THE OTHER CDC LEADERS WHO RESIGNED AT THE SAME TIME SHE 53 00:04:04,933 --> 00:04:09,100 WAS FIRED HAVE SAID THAT, SIMILARLY, THEY SIMPLY COULD NOT 54 00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:12,633 SERVE AT THE CDC ANY LONGER. HOW DO YOU THINK THESE 55 00:04:12,633 --> 00:04:16,133 DEPARTURES ARE GOING TO AFFECT THE MISSION OF THE CDC? 56 00:04:16,133 --> 00:04:18,400 DR. BESSER: IT'S GONNA HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON THE AGENCY. 57 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:23,333 IT HAS BEEN A VERY CHALLENGING FIVE YEARS FOR PEOPLE IN PUBLIC 58 00:04:23,333 --> 00:04:26,000 HEALTH. WITH THE COVID PANDEMIC, WE SAW 59 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,433 POLITICIZATION OF PUBLIC HEALTH LIKE WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. 60 00:04:29,433 --> 00:04:32,466 AND SO THOSE WHO WERE STILL THERE FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION 61 00:04:32,466 --> 00:04:35,033 WERE ALREADY UNDER INCREDIBLE STRESS. 62 00:04:35,033 --> 00:04:40,033 SO TO HAVE A SECRETARY COME IN AND IMMEDIATELY FIRE THOUSANDS 63 00:04:41,566 --> 00:04:44,633 OF FEDERAL HEALTH WORKERS, CUT FUNDING TO THE NIH, AND REALLY 64 00:04:44,633 --> 00:04:48,133 CONDEMN CDC AS AN INSTITUTION NOT WORTH FOLLOWING. 65 00:04:48,133 --> 00:04:52,066 IT'S BEEN EXTREMELY HARD AND THESE LEADERS HAVE DONE A LOT TO 66 00:04:52,066 --> 00:04:54,466 HOLD MORALE TOGETHER, TO HOLD PEOPLE TOGETHER. 67 00:04:54,466 --> 00:04:57,733 SO WITHOUT THEM, THE AGENCY IS DEFINITELY GOING TO BE 68 00:04:57,733 --> 00:05:01,033 STRUGGLING EVEN MORE. ALI: THE FDA EARLIER THIS WEEK 69 00:05:01,033 --> 00:05:05,733 APPROVED COVID BOOSTERS FOR A MUCH SMALLER POPULATION OF 70 00:05:05,733 --> 00:05:08,633 INDIVIDUALS. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE FUTURE OF 71 00:05:08,633 --> 00:05:12,233 VACCINE ACCESS IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE IN THE NEAR FUTURE, 72 00:05:12,233 --> 00:05:14,700 ESPECIALLY AS WE'RE ENTERING THIS NEW SCHOOL YEAR? 73 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:19,700 DR. BESSER: MANY PEOPLE'S ACCESS TO VACCINES IS DEPENDENT ON A 74 00:05:21,166 --> 00:05:23,833 RECOMMENDATION FROM THE CDC. IF THE CDC DOESN'T RECOMMEND THE 75 00:05:23,833 --> 00:05:26,400 VACCINE, MANY INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT GOING TO PAY 76 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,533 FOR IT. THERE'S AN INCREDIBLE PROGRAM IN 77 00:05:28,533 --> 00:05:32,300 AMERICA CALLED THE VACCINE FOR CHILDREN PROGRAM, AND IT ENSURES 78 00:05:32,300 --> 00:05:36,400 THAT EVERY CHILD HAS ACCESS TO RECOMMENDED VACCINES. 79 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,900 IT'S WONDERFUL AND IT ELIMINATED ANY KIND OF DISPARITIES FOR 80 00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:44,233 VACCINES BY INCOME. WITHOUT A CDC RECOMMENDATION FOR 81 00:05:44,233 --> 00:05:47,333 VACCINATION FOR ALL CHILDREN, MANY CHILDREN ARE NOT GONNA BE 82 00:05:47,333 --> 00:05:50,066 ABLE TO GET THE VACCINE AND YOUR ABILITY TO GET IT WILL DEPEND ON 83 00:05:50,066 --> 00:05:52,066 YOUR INCOME. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY WRONG. 84 00:05:52,066 --> 00:05:54,933 WE'RE GONNA NEED THE STATES TO STEP UP AND FILL SOME OF THOSE 85 00:05:54,933 --> 00:05:57,200 GAPS. AND THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO WAY 86 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,566 THAT THE STATES CAN REPLACE THE MASSIVE FEDERAL FUNDING THAT 87 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:04,866 WENT INTO OUR VACCINE SYSTEM. ALI: WHAT DOES THIS SAY TO YOU 88 00:06:04,866 --> 00:06:08,800 ABOUT THE ABILITY OF THE UNITED STATES TO WHETHER ANOTHER PUBLIC 89 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,900 HEALTH EMERGENCY, SUCH AS ANOTHER PANDEMIC? 90 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:14,066 DR. BESSER: YOU KNOW, WE ARE AT RISK FOR SO MANY DIFFERENT 91 00:06:14,066 --> 00:06:15,633 REASONS. 92 00:06:15,633 --> 00:06:18,466 MOST OF THE MONEY THAT COMES TO CDC GOES THROUGH TO STATE AND 93 00:06:18,466 --> 00:06:21,600 LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH DEPARTMENTS, AND THERE HAVE BEEN BIG CUTS 94 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,133 THERE. 95 00:06:23,133 --> 00:06:26,866 THE AGENCY IS GOING TO BE LED BY AN INDIVIDUAL WITH NO PUBLIC 96 00:06:26,866 --> 00:06:29,433 HEALTH EXPERIENCE. YOU KNOW, I SERVED AS THE ACTING 97 00:06:29,433 --> 00:06:31,333 DIRECTOR AT THE CDC FOR AN 98 00:06:31,333 --> 00:06:34,300 IMPORTANT REASON. I HAD SPENT FOUR YEARS RUNNING 99 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:36,933 EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS AND RESPONSE FOR THE AGENCY. 100 00:06:36,933 --> 00:06:39,033 YOU NEVER CAN PREDICT WHEN THERE'S GOING TO BE A PUBLIC 101 00:06:39,033 --> 00:06:41,500 HEALTH EMERGENCY. AND DURING MY TENURE, THAT'S 102 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:44,466 WHEN THE H1N1 SWINE FLU PANDEMIC STARTED. 103 00:06:44,466 --> 00:06:47,500 WE NOW HAVE IN MR. O'NEILL, AN INDIVIDUAL WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE 104 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:50,133 AGENCY AND DOESN'T KNOW PUBLIC HEALTH RESPONSE. 105 00:06:50,133 --> 00:06:53,733 SO IF THERE IS A PANDEMIC, IF THERE IS A NEW THREAT TO 106 00:06:53,733 --> 00:06:57,100 PEOPLE'S HEALTH, I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CONFIDENCE THAT 107 00:06:57,100 --> 00:06:58,866 HE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE THAT APPROPRIATELY. 108 00:06:58,866 --> 00:07:03,266 ALI: AND TO THAT END, JIM O'NEILL, AS YOU SAID, HAS NO 109 00:07:03,266 --> 00:07:06,066 MEDICAL BACKGROUND. HE HAS SERVED AT HHS BEFORE. 110 00:07:06,066 --> 00:07:09,433 DURING HIS HEARING, HE SAID THAT HE WAS PRO-VACCINE, BUT 111 00:07:09,433 --> 00:07:12,233 ANTI-MANDATES. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HIS ABILITY 112 00:07:12,233 --> 00:07:15,500 TO STEWARD THIS AGENCY AT THIS TIME IN GENERAL? 113 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:18,400 DR. BESSER: WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THEY'RE ANTI-MANDATES, I WANT TO 114 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,466 EXPLORE THAT FURTHER. AS A PEDIATRICIAN, I KNOW THAT 115 00:07:22,466 --> 00:07:27,200 ONE OF THE WONDERFUL THINGS FOR A NEW PARENT WHEN THEY'RE 116 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,066 SENDING THEIR CHILD TO SCHOOL IS THAT THEY KNOW THAT THE OTHER 117 00:07:30,066 --> 00:07:32,533 CHILDREN IN THE CLASSROOM WILL BE VACCINATED. 118 00:07:32,533 --> 00:07:35,433 THAT'S A VACCINE MANDATE. I WORRY THAT THIS IS A SECRETARY 119 00:07:35,433 --> 00:07:38,933 WHO'S GOING TO BRING THOSE THOSE REQUIREMENTS INTO QUESTION, HE'S 120 00:07:38,933 --> 00:07:42,000 GOING TO CHALLENGE MORE AND MORE OF THE CHILDHOOD VACCINES THAT 121 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,733 HAVE ELIMINATED IN OUR COUNTRY SO MANY DISEASES THAT CAUSE 122 00:07:45,733 --> 00:07:48,466 HAVOC AROUND THE WORLD. ALI: SOME OF THE DEPARTING 123 00:07:48,466 --> 00:07:51,833 LEADERS HAVE SAID THAT THEY FEAR THAT THE CDC IS NOW BROKEN 124 00:07:51,833 --> 00:07:54,133 BEYOND REPAIR. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT? 125 00:07:54,133 --> 00:07:58,700 DR. BESSER: WELL, IT IS BROKEN. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE BEYOND 126 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:02,633 REPAIR, BUT IT WILL TAKE CONGRESS STEPPING UP AND SAYING 127 00:08:02,633 --> 00:08:05,500 THAT THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR OUR NATION. 128 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:08,533 IT IS A DANGEROUS SITUATION THAT WILL AFFECT EVERY PART OF OUR 129 00:08:08,533 --> 00:08:10,800 COUNTRY. RURAL COMMUNITIES ACROSS AMERICA 130 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,066 WILL BE HIT VERY HARD BY THIS DECIMATION OF OUR PUBLIC HEALTH 131 00:08:14,066 --> 00:08:15,666 SYSTEM. AND WE NEED OUR ELECTED 132 00:08:15,666 --> 00:08:19,033 OFFICIALS TO SAY, THIS IS NOT WHAT WE WANT TO SEE FOR AMERICA. 133 00:08:19,033 --> 00:08:22,633 THIS IS ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. ALI: RICHARD BESSER, THANK YOU 134 00:08:22,633 --> 00:08:24,200 SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. 135 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,200 DR. BESSER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I APPRECIATE IT. 136 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,700 JOHN: AND IN TODAY'S OTHER NEWS, ISRAELI FORCES POUNDED THE AREA 137 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:34,100 AROUND GAZA CITY OVERNIGHT, DESTROYING HOMES AND SENDING 138 00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:35,666 MORE PEOPLE LOOKING FOR A SAFE - - MORE PEOPLE FLEEING. 139 00:08:35,666 --> 00:08:39,200 THE AREA'S LARGEST HOSPITAL SAID 29 BODIES WERE BROUGHT TO ITS 140 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,233 MORGUE, INCLUDING TEN PEOPLE WHO WERE SEEKING AID. 141 00:08:42,233 --> 00:08:45,600 THE ISRAELI MILITARY HAS STOPPED PAUSING FIGHTING TO ALLOW FOOD 142 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,700 DELIVERIES AS THEY RAMP UP THEIR OFFENSIVE AGAINST HAMAS. 143 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:52,700 ISRAEL ALSO SAID THAT A TARGETED OPERATION HAD KILLED A LONGTIME 144 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:55,666 SPOKESMAN FOR HAMAS'S MILITARY WING. 145 00:08:55,666 --> 00:08:59,333 IN UKRAINE, 60,000 PEOPLE ARE WITHOUT ELECTRICITY AFTER RUSSIA 146 00:08:59,333 --> 00:09:01,900 STRUCK POWER FACILITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. 147 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:05,600 IN RECENT WEEKS, BOTH SIDES HAVE INCREASINGLY TARGETED ENERGY AND 148 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,500 FUEL INFRASTRUCTURE AS THEY INTENSIFY THEIR AIR STRIKES. 149 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:12,633 UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY VOWED TO RETALITE WITH 150 00:09:12,633 --> 00:09:16,633 STRIKES DEEP INSIDE RUSSIA. AND EUROPEAN LEADERS ARE WORKING 151 00:09:16,633 --> 00:09:20,133 ON PLANS TO SEND THOUSANDS OF TROOPS TO UKRAINE AS PART OF 152 00:09:20,133 --> 00:09:22,800 POST-CONFLICT SECURITY GUARANTEES. 153 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,833 EUROPEAN COMMISSSION PRESIDENT URSULA VAN DER LEYEN TOLD THE 154 00:09:25,833 --> 00:09:28,700 FINANCIAL TIMES IT WOULD BE A MULTINATIONAL FORCE. 155 00:09:28,700 --> 00:09:31,900 SHE SAID PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS AGREED TO PROVIDE TECHNOLOGICAL 156 00:09:31,900 --> 00:09:35,900 AND INTELLIGENCE SUPPORT. EU AND U.S. SECURITY GUARANTEES 157 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:39,100 ARE ONE OF THE CONDITIONS ZELENSKYY HAS SET FOR ANY PEACE 158 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:41,833 AGREEMENT. FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR RUDY 159 00:09:41,833 --> 00:09:45,500 GIULIANI IS RECOVERING IN A NEW HAMPSHIRE HOSPITAL FROM SERIOUS 160 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:48,700 INJURIES HE SUFFERED IN A CAR CRASH LATE SATURDAY EVENING. 161 00:09:48,700 --> 00:09:52,066 A SPOKESMAN SAID GIULIANI FRACTURED A VERTEBRAE AND HAD 162 00:09:52,066 --> 00:09:55,500 MULTIPLE CUTS AND BRUISES. THE SPOKESMAN SAID GIULIANI'S 163 00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:59,266 RENTAL CAR WAS HIT FROM BEHIND AT HIGH-SPEED. 164 00:09:59,266 --> 00:10:02,066 TODAY WAS THE FIRST SUNDAY MASS OF THE ANNUNCIATION CATHOLIC 165 00:10:02,066 --> 00:10:05,100 CHURCH IN MINNEAPOLIS SINCE AN ATTACK KILLED TWO CHILDREN AND 166 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:08,133 WOUNDED 20 OTHERS. OUTSIDE, WELL-WISHERS LEFT 167 00:10:08,133 --> 00:10:11,033 FLOWERS AND MESSAGES. THE REVEREND DENNIS ZEHREN WAS 168 00:10:11,033 --> 00:10:15,800 AT THE CHURCH DURING THE WEDNESDAY ATTACK. 169 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,100 >> IT'S BEEN A TREMENDOUS OUTPOURING OF LOVE. 170 00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:22,866 IT'S KIND OF A FUNNY MYSTERY, WHEN THE DARKNESS IS ITS MOST 171 00:10:22,866 --> 00:10:26,533 INTENSE, THAT'S WHEN THE LIGHT OF GOD SHINES ALL THE MORE 172 00:10:26,533 --> 00:10:28,700 BRIGHTLY. AND WE'VE BEEN SEEING THAT IN SO 173 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:32,233 MANY WAYS. I'VE NEVER SEEN SUCH AN 174 00:10:32,233 --> 00:10:36,500 OUTPOURING OF LOVE. JOHN: AT THE VATICAN, POPE LEO 175 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:39,233 PRAYED FOR THE VICTIMS AND CALLED FOR AN END TO WHAT HE 176 00:10:39,233 --> 00:10:43,066 TERMED "THE PANDEMIC OF ARMS, LARGE AND SMALL, WHICH INFECTS 177 00:10:43,066 --> 00:10:46,033 OUR WORLD." AND CROWDS HAVE FLOCKED TO A 178 00:10:46,033 --> 00:10:49,466 MUSEUM IN NORTHERN FRANCE THIS WEEKEND TO SEE THE FAMED BAYEUX 179 00:10:49,466 --> 00:10:53,366 TAPESTRY BEFORE IT GOES ON LOAN TO THE BRITISH MUSEUM IN LONDON. 180 00:10:53,366 --> 00:10:57,066 THE 76-YARD LONG MASTERPIECE TELLS THE STORY OF WILLIAM THE 181 00:10:57,066 --> 00:11:00,366 CONQUEROR'S INVASION OF ENGLAND IN 1066. 182 00:11:00,366 --> 00:11:03,033 CRITICS IN FRANCE FEAR THE TAPESTRY, WHICH IS ACTUALLY 183 00:11:03,033 --> 00:11:06,633 EMBROIDERED, IS TOO FRAGILE TO BE SAFELY MOVED SUCH A LONG 184 00:11:06,633 --> 00:11:08,633 DISTANCE. IT WILL BE THE FIRST TIME THE 185 00:11:08,633 --> 00:11:12,466 TAPESTRY HAS RETURNED TO ENGLAND IN NEARLY 1,000 YEARS. 186 00:11:12,466 --> 00:11:16,400 STILL TO COME ON PBS NEWS WEEKEND, HOW AI CHATBOTS MAY BE 187 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,666 AFFECTING MENTAL HEALTH. AND THE HEAD OF THE WORLD FOOD 188 00:11:19,666 --> 00:11:24,666 PROGRAMME ON THE DEVASTATING HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN SUDAN. 189 00:11:35,333 --> 00:11:40,333 OHN: FIRST, WE SHOULD WARN YOU 190 00:11:41,766 --> 00:11:43,300 THAT THIS STORY DISCUSSES 191 00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:46,500 SUICIDE. THIS PAST WEEK, THE PARENTS OF A 192 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:50,433 16-YEAR-OLD WHO TOOK HIS OWN LIFE FILED A WRONGFUL DEATH SUIT 193 00:11:50,433 --> 00:11:53,933 AGAINST OPEN AI, WHICH OWNS CHATGPT. 194 00:11:53,933 --> 00:11:57,133 THEY SAY THAT AFTER THEIR SON EXPRESSED SUICIDAL THOUGHTS, 195 00:11:57,133 --> 00:12:00,933 CHATGPT BEGAN DISCUSSING WAYS HE COULD END HIS LIFE. 196 00:12:00,933 --> 00:12:04,000 THE LAWSUIT IS ONE OF THE FIRST OF ITS KIND BUT THERE HAVE BEEN 197 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,600 A NUMBER OF REPORTS ABOUT PEOPLE DEVELOPING DISTORTED THOUGHTS OR 198 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,833 DELUSIONAL BELIEFS TRIGGERED BY INTERACTIONS WITH AI CHATBOTS. 199 00:12:11,833 --> 00:12:15,833 THE REPERCUSSIONS CAN BE SEVERE, CAUSING SOME USERS TO EXPERIENCE 200 00:12:15,833 --> 00:12:19,200 HEIGHTENED ANXIETY, AND IN EXTREME CASES, TO HARM 201 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,900 THEMSELVES OR OTHERS. IT'S BEEN DUBBED AI PSYCHOSIS. 202 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:27,500 DR. JOSEPH PIERRE IS A CLINICAL PROFESSOR IN PSYCHIATRY AT THE 203 00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:30,400 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAN FRANCISCO. 204 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,100 DR. PIERRE, THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL DIAGNOSIS YET. 205 00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:35,900 IT'S NOT IN ANY DIAGNOSTIC MANUALS. 206 00:12:35,900 --> 00:12:40,233 HOW DO YOU DEFINE AI PSYCHOSES? DR. PIERRE: WELL, PSYCHOSIS IS A 207 00:12:40,233 --> 00:12:44,233 TERM THAT ROUGHLY MEANS THAT SOMEONE HAS LOST TOUCH WITH 208 00:12:44,233 --> 00:12:47,866 REALITY. AND THE USUAL EXAMPLES THAT WE 209 00:12:47,866 --> 00:12:50,433 ENCOUNTER IN PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS ARE EITHER 210 00:12:50,433 --> 00:12:53,700 HALLUCINATIONS WHERE WE'RE SEEING OR HEARING THINGS THAT 211 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:57,300 AREN'T REALLY THERE, OR DELUSIONS, WHICH ARE FIXED FALSE 212 00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:00,800 BELIEFS, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, THINKING THE CIA IS AFTER ME. 213 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,466 AND MOSTLY WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE CONTEXT OF AI INTERACTIONS 214 00:13:04,466 --> 00:13:08,300 IS REALLY DELUSIONAL THINGS. SO THESE ARE DELUSIONS THAT ARE 215 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:12,000 OCCURRING IN THIS SETTING OF INTERACTING WITH AI CHATBOTS. 216 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,533 JOHN: ARE SOME PEOPLE MORE 217 00:13:13,533 --> 00:13:16,466 SUSCEPTIBLE TO THIS THAN OTHERS? DR. PIERRE: WELL, THAT'S REALLY 218 00:13:16,466 --> 00:13:20,233 THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION. I DISTINGUISH BETWEEN AI 219 00:13:20,233 --> 00:13:23,333 ASSOCIATED PSYCHOSIS, WHICH JUST MEANS THAT WE'RE SEEING 220 00:13:23,333 --> 00:13:26,933 PSYCHOTIC SYMPTOMS IN THE CONTEXT OF AI USE. 221 00:13:26,933 --> 00:13:31,033 BUT I ALSO TALK ABOUT AI EXACERBATED PSYCHOSIS OR AI 222 00:13:31,033 --> 00:13:34,700 INDUCED PSYCHOSIS. SO THE REAL QUESTION IS, IS THIS 223 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:38,133 HAPPENING IN PEOPLE WITH SOME SORT OF PREEXISTING MENTAL 224 00:13:38,133 --> 00:13:42,233 DISORDER OR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE AND THE AI INTERACTION IS JUST 225 00:13:42,233 --> 00:13:45,900 FUELING THAT OR MAKING IT WORSE? OR IS IT REALLY CREATING 226 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:49,200 PSYCHOSIS IN PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY SIGNIFICANT HISTORY? 227 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,466 AND I THINK THERE'S EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT BOTH ARE HAPPENING. 228 00:13:52,466 --> 00:13:55,466 PROBABLY IT'S MUCH MORE COMMON THAT IT'S A WORSENING OR 229 00:13:55,466 --> 00:13:58,333 EXACERBATING EFFECT. JOHN: TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT 230 00:13:58,333 --> 00:14:01,500 WHAT YOU SEE IN YOUR PRACTICE. ARE YOU SEEING PEOPLE COMING IN 231 00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:04,233 TO TALK ABOUT THIS? DR. PIERRE: I HAVE SEEN A 232 00:14:04,233 --> 00:14:06,800 HANDFUL OF CASES. I PRIMARILY WORK IN A HOSPITAL, 233 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,666 SO THE PATIENTS THAT I'VE SEEN ARE PATIENTS WHO HAVE BEEN 234 00:14:09,666 --> 00:14:12,633 ADMITTED. AND AS I SUGGESTED BEFORE, SOME 235 00:14:12,633 --> 00:14:17,200 OF THEM ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE OBVIOUS AND LONG-STANDING MENTAL 236 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,300 ILLNESS WHO NOW HAVE DEVELOPED A WORSENING OF SYMPTOMS IN THE 237 00:14:20,300 --> 00:14:23,733 CONTEXT OF AI USE. I HAVE A FEW CASES OF PEOPLE 238 00:14:23,733 --> 00:14:28,133 WITHOUT ANY SUBSTANTIAL MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES PRIOR TO BEING 239 00:14:28,133 --> 00:14:30,466 HOSPITALIZED ALSO. JOHN: I WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT 240 00:14:30,466 --> 00:14:33,266 SECOND CATEGORY. HOW COMMON IT IS AMONG PEOPLE 241 00:14:33,266 --> 00:14:35,666 WHO DON'T HAVE AN EXISTING 242 00:14:35,666 --> 00:14:39,433 PSYCHOLOGICAL OR MENTAL PROBLEM GETTING CAUGHT IN WITH CHATBOTS? 243 00:14:39,433 --> 00:14:43,333 DR. PIERRE: I HAVE TO THINK THAT IT'S ACTUALLY FAIRLY RARE. 244 00:14:43,333 --> 00:14:47,033 I MEAN, IF YOU THINK ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE USE CHATBOTS, THAT, 245 00:14:47,033 --> 00:14:49,333 OF COURSE, IS A LARGE, LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. 246 00:14:49,333 --> 00:14:53,033 AND WE'VE ONLY SEEN REALLY A FAIRLY SMALL HANDFUL OF CASES 247 00:14:53,033 --> 00:14:56,066 REPORTED IN MEDIA. THOSE OF US IN CLINICAL PRACTICE 248 00:14:56,066 --> 00:14:59,500 ARE STARTING TO NOTICE THIS MORE AND MORE. 249 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:03,200 SO I DON'T THINK IT'S A HUGE RISK IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF 250 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,833 THE PEOPLE. TYPICALLY, THIS OCCURS IN PEOPLE 251 00:15:05,833 --> 00:15:10,233 WHO ARE USING CHAT BOTS FOR HOURS AND HOURS ON END, OFTEN TO 252 00:15:10,233 --> 00:15:13,433 THE EXCLUSION OF HUMAN INTERACTION, OFTEN TO EXCLUSION 253 00:15:13,433 --> 00:15:16,633 OF SLEEP OR EVEN EATING. AND SO IT REALLY, I THINK, IS A 254 00:15:16,633 --> 00:15:18,933 KIND OF DOSE EFFECT THAT WE'RE SEEING. 255 00:15:18,933 --> 00:15:20,466 JOHN: WE REACHED OUT TO CHAT 256 00:15:20,466 --> 00:15:22,800 GPT, AND HERE'S PART OF WHAT THEY TOLD US. 257 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,866 THEY SAID CHATGPT INCLUDES SAFEGUARDS, SUCH AS DIRECTING 258 00:15:26,866 --> 00:15:30,466 PEOPLE TO CRISIS HELPLINES AND REFERRING THEM TO REAL-WORLD 259 00:15:30,466 --> 00:15:33,833 RESOURCES. WHILE THESE SAFEGUARDS WORK BEST 260 00:15:33,833 --> 00:15:38,133 IN COMMON SHORT EXCHANGES, WE'VE LEARNED OVER TIME THAT THEY CAN 261 00:15:38,133 --> 00:15:42,800 SOMETIMES BECOME LESS RELIABLE IN LONG INTERACTIONS WHERE PARTS 262 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,533 OF THE MODEL'S SAFETY TRAINING MAY DEGRADE. 263 00:15:46,533 --> 00:15:50,633 HOW MUCH OF THIS IS THE RESPONSIBILITY, DO YOU THINK, OF 264 00:15:50,633 --> 00:15:54,766 THE AI COMPANIES, AND ARE THEY DOING ENOUGH? 265 00:15:54,766 --> 00:15:57,033 DR. PIERRE: WELL, I THINK OF IT AS A SORT OF SHARED 266 00:15:57,033 --> 00:15:59,600 RESPONSIBILITY, JUST LIKE FOR ANY CONSUMER PRODUCT. 267 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,400 I THINK THERE'S A RESPONSIBILITY ON THE MAKER AND THERE'S 268 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,233 RESPONSIBILITY FOR US AS CONSUMERS ON HOW WE UTILIZE 269 00:16:06,233 --> 00:16:09,433 THESE PRODUCTS. SO I CERTAINLY THINK THAT THIS 270 00:16:09,433 --> 00:16:13,266 IS A NEW PHENOMENON THAT DESERVES ATTENTION AND THAT THE 271 00:16:13,266 --> 00:16:16,633 COMPANIES OUGHT TO BE THINKING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE A SAFER 272 00:16:16,633 --> 00:16:21,433 PRODUCT OR PERHAPS HAVE WARNING LABELS OR WARNINGS ABOUT WHAT 273 00:16:21,433 --> 00:16:24,066 INAPPROPRIATE USE MIGHT LOOK LIKE. 274 00:16:24,066 --> 00:16:28,066 UNFORTUNATELY, WE DID SEE SOME EVIDENCE OF OPENAI DOING THAT, 275 00:16:28,066 --> 00:16:31,600 TRYING TO MAKE A NEW VERSION OF THEIR CHATBOT THAT MIGHT CARRY 276 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,133 LESS OF THIS RISK. AND WHAT WE SAW WAS THAT 277 00:16:34,133 --> 00:16:37,100 CONSUMERS, THERE WAS A BACKLASH. CONSUMERS ACTUALLY DIDN'T LIKE 278 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:41,100 THE NEW PRODUCT BECAUSE IT WAS LESS WHAT WE CALL SYCOPHANTIC. 279 00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:43,733 IT WAS LESS AGREEABLE. IT WASN'T VALIDATING PEOPLE AS 280 00:16:43,733 --> 00:16:46,533 MUCH. BUT THAT SAME QUALITY IS, I 281 00:16:46,533 --> 00:16:49,033 THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT PUTS SOME PEOPLE AT RISK. 282 00:16:49,033 --> 00:16:53,333 JOHN: WHAT ADVICE DO YOU GIVE PEOPLE WHO INTERACT WITH THESE 283 00:16:53,333 --> 00:16:56,700 CHAT BOTS TO AVOID THIS? DR. PIERRE: WELL, WHAT I'VE 284 00:16:56,700 --> 00:17:00,566 NOTICED IS THERE'S SORT OF TWO, LET'S CALL THEM RISK FACTORS 285 00:17:00,566 --> 00:17:04,233 THAT I'VE SEEN PRETTY CONSISTENTLY ACROSS CASES. 286 00:17:04,233 --> 00:17:06,866 ONE I ALLUDED TO EARLIER, IT'S THE DOSE EFFECT. 287 00:17:06,866 --> 00:17:10,133 IT'S HOW MUCH ONE IS USING. I CALL THIS IMMERSION. 288 00:17:10,133 --> 00:17:14,133 SO IF YOU'RE USING SOMETHING FOR HOURS AND HOURS ON END, THAT'S 289 00:17:14,133 --> 00:17:17,433 PROBABLY NOT A GOOD SIGN. THE OTHER ONE IS SOMETHING THAT 290 00:17:17,433 --> 00:17:21,200 I CALL DEIFICATION, WHICH IS JUST A FANCY TERM THAT MEANS 291 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,600 THAT SOME PEOPLE WHO INTERACT WITH THESE CHATBOTS REALLY COME 292 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,200 TO SEE THEM AS THESE SUPERHUMAN INTELLIGENCES OR THESE ALMOST 293 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,300 GOD-LIKE ENTITIES THAT ARE ULTRA-RELIABLE. 294 00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:35,500 AND THAT'S SIMPLY NOT WHAT CHATBOTS ARE. 295 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:38,300 THEY'RE DESIGNED TO REPLICATE HUMAN ACTION, BUT THEY'RE NOT 296 00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:39,833 ACTUALLY DESIGNED TO BE ACCURATE. 297 00:17:39,833 --> 00:17:43,200 AND I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR CONSUMERS TO UNDERSTAND THAT 298 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,466 THAT'S A RISK OF THESE PRODUCTS. THEY'RE NOT ULTRA RELIABLE 299 00:17:46,466 --> 00:17:48,700 SOURCES OF INFORMATION. THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE BUILT TO 300 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:50,866 BE. JOHN: DR. JOSEPH PIERRE FROM THE 301 00:17:50,866 --> 00:17:54,200 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAN FRANCISCO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 302 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,233 DR. PIERRE: THANK YOU. 303 00:17:58,233 --> 00:18:03,233 ♪ OHN: 304 00:18:03,966 --> 00:18:05,366 THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE 305 00:18:05,366 --> 00:18:09,200 COMMITTEE ESTIMATES THAT WORLDWIDE, COUNTRIES WITH ABOUT 306 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,200 11% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION ACCOUNT FOR A STAGGERING 82% OF 307 00:18:15,666 --> 00:18:18,300 PEOPLE NEEDING HUMANITARIAN AID. WILLIAM BRANGHAM SPOKE WITH 308 00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:22,066 CINDY MCCAIN, HEAD OF THE UN'S WORLD FOOD PROGRAM, ABOUT THE 309 00:18:22,066 --> 00:18:25,666 WORLD'S LARGEST, AND OFTEN OVERLOOKED, HUMANITARIAN CRISIS. 310 00:18:25,666 --> 00:18:28,000 WILLIAM: CINDY MCCAIN, I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU A LITTLE BIT 311 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,200 ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN SUDAN, WHICH, WHILE MANY EYES 312 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,900 ARE ON GAZA, SUDAN IS PERHAPS AN EVEN GREATER CIRCUMSTANCE THERE. 313 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:39,833 WE KNOW THAT 14 MILLION PEOPLE AND MORE HAVE BEEN DISPLACED. 314 00:18:39,833 --> 00:18:42,933 IT IS ONE OF THE WORST CRISES IN THE WORLD TODAY. 315 00:18:42,933 --> 00:18:46,000 CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON THERE 316 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,433 FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW? CINDY: WELL, IT IS, AS YOU JUST 317 00:18:49,433 --> 00:18:53,200 SAID, THE LARGEST HUMANITARIAN CRISIS ON THE PLANET. 318 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,333 AND, YOU HAVE PEOPLE BEING 319 00:18:55,333 --> 00:18:59,033 PUSHED BACK AND FORTH BY VARIOUS FACTIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING 320 00:18:59,033 --> 00:19:02,933 COMBINED WITH WHAT WE CALL THE LEAN SEASON, WHICH BRINGS HUGE 321 00:19:02,933 --> 00:19:04,700 AMOUNTS OF RAINS, WHICH ARE ALSO 322 00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:07,333 DEVASTATING. AND YOU'VE GOT THE REBELS 323 00:19:07,333 --> 00:19:08,833 ROLLING -- ROAMING AROUND MAKING 324 00:19:08,833 --> 00:19:12,533 SURE THAT PEOPLE CAN'T EAT. THERE IS FAMINE IN SUDAN. 325 00:19:12,533 --> 00:19:15,333 AND, QUITE FRANKLY, THE WORLD ISN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO IT AT 326 00:19:15,333 --> 00:19:18,000 ALL. THE FOCUS IS ON GAZA, AND I WISH 327 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,900 PEOPLE WOULD PAY CLOSER ATTENTION ALSO TO SUDAN AND TO 328 00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:24,133 SOUTH SUDAN. WILLIAM: ARE YOU ABLE TO OPERATE 329 00:19:24,133 --> 00:19:27,133 THERE IN ANY CAPACITY THAT YOU FEEL IS SUFFICIENT? 330 00:19:27,133 --> 00:19:30,000 CINDY: WELL, WE'RE OPERATING, BUT NOT AS WHAT I FEEL IS 331 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,833 SUFFICIENT. WE ARE OPERATING. 332 00:19:31,833 --> 00:19:35,733 IT IS, AS YOU KNOW, IS VERY CHALLENGING THERE, NOT JUST 333 00:19:35,733 --> 00:19:39,433 BECAUSE OF THE THE POLITICAL ELEMENTS AND ALL THE ELEMENTS 334 00:19:39,433 --> 00:19:43,100 THAT ARE CAUSING SO MUCH OF THIS, BUT ALSO FROM A, FROM A 335 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:46,633 JUST OPERATIONS STANDPOINT, TRYING TO GET TRUCKS IN AND 336 00:19:46,633 --> 00:19:49,666 TRYING TO GET THE COMMODITIES IN THAT WE NEED TO DO. 337 00:19:49,666 --> 00:19:53,200 THE DARFUR REGION IS DEVASTATED FROM ALL OF THIS. 338 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,400 IT'S IMPERATIVE THAT WE, PUSH FOR THIS. 339 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,466 THE FUNDING CUTS HAVE REALLY, REALLY HAD A REAL DAMPER ON ALL 340 00:20:00,466 --> 00:20:03,100 OF THIS, BECAUSE WE DO NEED MONEY TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE 341 00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:05,200 THERE. AND WE DON'T HAVE IT THE WAY WE 342 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,033 USED TO. BUT WE CANNOT FORGET THIS 343 00:20:07,033 --> 00:20:08,866 REGION. WE CANNOT FORGET THESE PEOPLE 344 00:20:08,866 --> 00:20:11,733 EITHER. AND AS I SAID, THEY ARE THERE. 345 00:20:11,733 --> 00:20:15,900 IT'S DEVASTATING THERE, WHAT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT WHAT COULD 346 00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:17,833 HAPPEN IF WE DON'T GET MORE AID 347 00:20:17,833 --> 00:20:19,833 IN. WILLIAM: UNICEF RECENTLY SAID 348 00:20:19,833 --> 00:20:24,000 THAT AFTER THESE 500 DAYS OF SIEGE, THAT THE CHILDREN IN 349 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,900 AL-BASHIR IN PARTICULAR ARE SUFFERING MASS DISPLACEMENT, 350 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:31,266 DEADLY VIOLENCE STILL GOING ON. ARE YOU ABLE TO OPERATE IN THAT 351 00:20:31,266 --> 00:20:35,466 REGION SPECIFICALLY? CINDY: YES, WE ARE IN SEVERAL OF 352 00:20:35,466 --> 00:20:37,866 THE REGIONS, MORE THAN SEVERAL, ACTUALLY. 353 00:20:37,866 --> 00:20:40,433 BUT I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, IT DEPENDS ON THE DAY. 354 00:20:40,433 --> 00:20:43,533 DEPENDS ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S HAPPENING FROM A SECURITY 355 00:20:43,533 --> 00:20:46,500 STANDPOINT AROUND THERE. WE DO THE VERY BEST WE CAN. 356 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,466 AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, OUR PEOPLE ARE EXTRAORDINARILY GOOD AT WHAT 357 00:20:49,466 --> 00:20:52,166 THEY DO, AND THEY'RE VERY EXPERIENCED IN THESE PARTICULAR 358 00:20:52,166 --> 00:20:54,666 REGIONS. WE CAN DO THE THINGS, YOU KNOW, 359 00:20:54,666 --> 00:20:56,900 WE WE DO GET IN. WE DON'T GET IN ENOUGH. 360 00:20:56,900 --> 00:21:00,166 AS I SAID, IN SOME CASES WE DON'T GET IN AT ALL. 361 00:21:00,166 --> 00:21:02,466 IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE REGION, DEPENDS ON THE DAY. 362 00:21:02,466 --> 00:21:06,800 WILLIAM: I MEAN, APART FROM THE VIOLENCE COMING TO AN END, 363 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,933 AND I KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU AND FEW OTHER GOVERNMENTS 364 00:21:10,933 --> 00:21:14,000 HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER. WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED TO HAVE 365 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,133 HAPPEN THERE IN ORDER TO HELP ALL OF THESE DESPERATE PEOPLE? 366 00:21:18,133 --> 00:21:21,433 CINDY: WELL, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO GET FOOD IN AT SCALE, AS I 367 00:21:21,433 --> 00:21:26,433 MENTIONED, AND NOT JUST IN THE REGION, BUT ALL AROUND THE 368 00:21:27,533 --> 00:21:29,066 COUNTRY. PEOPLE JUST DON'T HAVE ACCESS. 369 00:21:29,066 --> 00:21:32,466 AND BECAUSE OF THE INFLUENCE OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND ALL THE OTHER 370 00:21:32,466 --> 00:21:35,333 ELEMENTS THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER, THEY DON'T HAVE THE 371 00:21:35,333 --> 00:21:39,500 ABILITY TO REALLY BE RESILIENT AND GROW THEIR OWN FOOD IN MANY 372 00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:42,100 CASES. IT'S KIND OF A PERFECT STORM OF 373 00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:46,166 DISASTER IN TERMS OF THE INABILITY FOR THESE PEOPLE TO 374 00:21:46,166 --> 00:21:48,166 FUNCTION IN A NORMAL WAY WITH 375 00:21:48,166 --> 00:21:52,533 REGARDS TO FOOD, AND BE ABLE TO MOVE AROUND IN NORMAL WAYS. 376 00:21:54,066 --> 00:21:57,133 WE NEED TO GET IN AND MAKE SURE WE CAN FEED AT SCALE AND MAKE 377 00:21:57,133 --> 00:21:59,700 SURE THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO FEED AND SCALE. 378 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:02,000 IT'S DEVASTATING TO WATCH, THE CHILDREN ARE THE MOST 379 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,733 VULNERABLE IN ALL OF THIS. WILLIAM: ALL RIGHT. 380 00:22:03,733 --> 00:22:06,400 THAT IS CINDY MCCAIN, THE HEAD OF THE WORLD FOOD PROGRAM. 381 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,733 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. 382 00:22:07,733 --> 00:22:12,733 CINDY: THANK YOU. MY PLEASURE. 383 00:22:18,033 --> 00:22:19,366 OHN: 384 00:22:19,366 --> 00:22:21,833 LAST FALL'S HURRICANE HELENE WAS A STORM OF 385 00:22:21,833 --> 00:22:25,433 SUPERLATIVES, NOT ONLY WAS IT THE STRONGEST EVER TO HIT 386 00:22:25,433 --> 00:22:29,600 FLORIDA'S BIG BEND REGION, ONCE OVER LAND, IT BROUGHT HISTORIC 387 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,333 RAINFALL AND RECORD-BREAKING FLOODING ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST. 388 00:22:33,333 --> 00:22:37,266 IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH, 430 MILES OF THE FAMED APPALACHIAN 389 00:22:37,266 --> 00:22:40,533 TRAIL WERE CLOSED, AS DOWNED TREES BLOCKED FOOTPATHS AND 390 00:22:40,533 --> 00:22:42,300 BRIDGES WERE WASHED AWAY. 391 00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:45,833 NOW, MONTHS OF LABOR BY VOLUNTEER WORK CREWS HAS BROUGHT 392 00:22:45,833 --> 00:22:50,833 THAT DOWN TO JUST FIVE MILES. ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST, HURRICANE 393 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,300 HELENE'S DEVASTATION LINGERS. >> I HAVE LIVED IN THE MIDDLE 394 00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,433 EAST FOR MANY YEARS, AND THIS IS WORSE THAN ANY WAR THAT I'VE 395 00:22:58,433 --> 00:23:00,400 BEEN IN. IT'S HORRENDOUS. 396 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,066 JOHN: ON THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL IN NORTHEASTERN TENNESSEE, 397 00:23:04,066 --> 00:23:07,833 FALLEN TREES AND OTHER DEBRIS STILL BLOCK FOOTPATHS. 398 00:23:07,833 --> 00:23:11,666 FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS, AT LEAST 2,000 VOLUNTEERS HAVE WORKED TO 399 00:23:11,666 --> 00:23:14,300 CLEAR THOSE OBSTACLES. THEY'RE FROM GROUPS THAT 400 00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:17,200 MAINTAIN THE TRAIL, INCLUDING THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL 401 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,233 CONSERVANCY, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS DAY-TO-DAY 402 00:23:20,233 --> 00:23:25,233 MANAGEMENT. >> THERE ARE NUMEROUS PLACES 403 00:23:26,766 --> 00:23:29,733 WHERE TREES USED TO STAND AND THEIR ROOTS WERE IN THE GROUND 404 00:23:29,733 --> 00:23:33,333 AND THE ROOTS GOT PULLED UP AND HAVE LEFT A LARGE HOLE IN THE 405 00:23:33,333 --> 00:23:36,800 MIDDLE OF THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL. JOHN: THE TRAIL WAS PROPOSED IN 406 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,800 1921, BUILT BY PRIVATE CITIZENS, AND COMPLETED IN 1937. 407 00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:47,100 IT STRETCHES NEARLY 2200 MILES, WINDING THROUGH 14 STATES FROM 408 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:50,066 MAINE TO GEORGIA. IT PASSES THROUGH EIGHT NATIONAL 409 00:23:50,066 --> 00:23:53,833 FORESTS, SIX SITES IN THE NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM AND TWO 410 00:23:53,833 --> 00:23:58,033 NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGES. EACH YEAR, MORE THAN 3 MILLION 411 00:23:58,033 --> 00:24:01,433 VISITORS FROM AROUND THE WORLD WALK AT LEAST PART OF THE TRAIL. 412 00:24:01,433 --> 00:24:04,466 >> THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL IS THIS AMAZING WAY TO CONNECT FOLKS. 413 00:24:05,933 --> 00:24:08,533 IT CAN BE SOMEBODY WHO'S, YEAH, WANTING TO HIKE FROM GEORGIA TO 414 00:24:08,533 --> 00:24:10,133 MAINE, AND IS GOING TO DO THAT 415 00:24:10,133 --> 00:24:12,233 IN ONE SUMMER OR IT'S SOMEBODY WHO'S NEVER STEPPED FOOT ON A 416 00:24:12,233 --> 00:24:14,066 TRAIL. JOHN: THESE DAYS, USING THE 417 00:24:14,066 --> 00:24:16,300 TRAIL REQUIRES A BIT OF PLANNING. 418 00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:18,866 SECTIONS ARE EXPECTED TO BE CLOSED FOR THE FORESEEABLE 419 00:24:18,866 --> 00:24:22,466 FUTURE. MATT PERRENOD OF THE APPALACHIAN 420 00:24:22,466 --> 00:24:25,500 TRAIL CONSERVANCY SAYS NOT ALL THE WORK IS BEING DONE BY 421 00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:28,133 VOLUNTEERS. >> THE VAST MAJORITY OF WORK 422 00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:32,466 GETS DONE BY THE VOLUNTEERS. HOWEVER, WE CAN'T IGNORE ALL THE 423 00:24:32,466 --> 00:24:35,100 OTHER PARTNERS AROUND LIKE THE FOREST SERVICE PEOPLE THAT 424 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:38,700 HELPED GET OUR GEAR UP WHO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS TRAIL DAY IN 425 00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:41,100 AND DAY OUT. SO THERE IS AN ENTIRE 426 00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:45,266 INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT AROUND THAT VOLUNTEER EXPERIENCE AND THEN 427 00:24:45,266 --> 00:24:47,000 VOLUNTEERS PROVIDE A LOT OF MUSCLE. 428 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,000 JOHN: THE WORK IS ALL DONE BY HAND. 429 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,666 THERE IS NO HEAVY EQUIPMENT. IT'S TIME-CONSUMING AND THE 430 00:24:53,666 --> 00:24:57,500 PROGRESS IS INCREMENTAL. AMONG THOSE PITCHING IN IS A 431 00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:00,433 GROUP FROM JAPAN. THEY SAY THEY ARE MOTIVATED BY 432 00:25:00,433 --> 00:25:04,233 THE GLOBAL RESPONSE TO THE 2011 FUKASHIMA EARTHQUAKE AND 433 00:25:04,233 --> 00:25:06,533 TSUNAMI. THEY ARE EAGER TO TAKE WHAT THEY 434 00:25:06,533 --> 00:25:10,633 LEARN HERE BACK HOME. >> WE ALL WORK FOR JAPANESE LONG 435 00:25:10,633 --> 00:25:15,633 DISTANCE TRAIL. BUT THE HISTORY IS QUITE NEW IN 436 00:25:17,166 --> 00:25:20,533 JAPAN, SO NOW WE ARE TRYING TO LEARN HOW TO MAINTAIN MAINTAIN 437 00:25:20,533 --> 00:25:22,866 - - HOW TO MAINTAIN AND HOW TO MAKE IT SUSTAINABLE. 438 00:25:22,866 --> 00:25:26,000 JOHN: THE VOLUNTEERS MAY NOT BE GETTING A PAYCHECK FOR THEIR 439 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,200 LABORS, BUT PERRENOD HOPES THEY FEEL THAT THEY ARE BEING 440 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,533 COMPENSATED IN ANOTHER WAY. >> THE OVERRIDING THING I THINK 441 00:25:32,533 --> 00:25:35,033 THEY LEAVE WITH IS A FEELING THAT THEY'RE PART OF SOMETHING 442 00:25:35,033 --> 00:25:38,000 THAT'S BIGGER THAN THEM. AND THEY KNOW THEY ARE CONNECTED 443 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,533 TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT THE SAME THING. 444 00:25:40,533 --> 00:25:45,533 PEOPLE LEAVE WITH THAT AND THAT MIGHT BE THE HIGHEST VALUE. 445 00:25:52,466 --> 00:25:54,533 ♪ JOHN: THAT IS PBS NEWS WEEKEND 446 00:25:54,533 --> 00:25:56,466 FOR THE I'M JOHN YANG. SUNDAY. 447 00:25:56,466 --> 00:25:58,533 FOR ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES, THANKS FOR JOINING US. 448 00:25:58,533 --> 00:26:02,133 HAVE A GOOD LABOR DAY AND A GOOD WEEK.