WEBVTT 00:01.033 --> 00:02.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Charlie, welcome back to Austin. 00:02.300 --> 00:04.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We actually met at Trip Fest a couple years ago. 00:04.200 --> 00:06.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You signed a book for me, I really appreciate that. 00:06.966 --> 00:08.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So, I have a two part question for you, 00:08.466 --> 00:10.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and kind of to preface this, 00:10.466 --> 00:12.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm originally from the New York area, 00:13.800 --> 00:17.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Wall Street guy, and remember, for example, 00:17.933 --> 00:20.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the Central Park Five, like it was yesterday, 00:20.400 --> 00:22.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and things like that, and folks like me 00:22.500 --> 00:26.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% could never imagine that this con could continue. 00:26.066 --> 00:27.466 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% Right? - Right. 00:27.466 --> 00:29.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so on, but I just kind of wanna preface that. 00:29.100 --> 00:31.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm a guy really kind of right down the middle. 00:33.733 --> 00:35.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So the question that, I guess, 00:35.133 --> 00:37.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that I wanna come across here with is 00:39.700 --> 00:42.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think that it's kind of interesting, 00:42.233 --> 00:44.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% prior to Trump, 00:44.033 --> 00:47.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Republicans were really good at winning elections, right? 00:47.733 --> 00:49.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I've always felt that Democrats 00:49.833 --> 00:52.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% were more interested in winning a fight 00:52.033 --> 00:53.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% than winning an election. 00:53.833 --> 00:56.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So question one is, I hope they've learned that lesson, 00:56.566 --> 00:59.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because kind of since that point in 2016, 00:59.766 --> 01:04.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it's kind of come more towards the Democrats way of winning. 01:04.033 --> 01:06.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, they just have won a lot of the elections. 01:06.333 --> 01:09.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Maybe the abortion issue has been a major thing and so on. 01:10.666 --> 01:14.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So the first thing I want to know is, do you feel like, 01:15.600 --> 01:16.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% so I kind of wanna go to the other side. 01:16.733 --> 01:18.133 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% You talked about the Republican side, 01:18.133 --> 01:19.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but on the Dems, have they learned their lesson, 01:19.833 --> 01:23.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that they gotta win an election, right, not a fight, 01:23.200 --> 01:26.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and number two, it seems to me that prior to 2016, 01:26.766 --> 01:30.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% folks like you and others, and other Republican strategists, 01:30.566 --> 01:33.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you understood that and you knew how to win elections. 01:33.233 --> 01:36.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And I understand how politics work, 01:36.033 --> 01:38.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but I don't understand why they don't 01:38.033 --> 01:40.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% come to folks like you and others 01:40.200 --> 01:42.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% because this is gonna be an election 01:42.066 --> 01:44.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that's gonna be right on the margins, 01:44.066 --> 01:47.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as you guys discussed, in six or so states, 01:47.166 --> 01:49.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because I think that that's really important. 01:49.100 --> 01:51.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And ask for your opinions at least, 01:52.633 --> 01:54.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and respect those and work on those. 01:54.500 --> 01:57.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So, I come from one of those six states- 01:57.600 --> 02:00.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - You're from Wisconsin- (everyone speaking at once) 02:00.500 --> 02:01.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - In Wisconsin, they have figured this out. 02:01.900 --> 02:04.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It is interesting, and I do have a good relationship 02:04.166 --> 02:05.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with some of the people there, 02:05.700 --> 02:09.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% even though we're not on the same ideological wavelength. 02:09.133 --> 02:12.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So they have. Now, does that apply everywhere? 02:12.333 --> 02:13.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I honestly don't know. 02:13.633 --> 02:16.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I spend most of my time looking at the horror 02:16.033 --> 02:19.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of what's happening to the Republican party. 02:19.366 --> 02:23.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I do worry about some of the far left fringes 02:23.233 --> 02:25.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of the Democratic party. 02:25.766 --> 02:30.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% If Donald Trump wins Wisconsin this year, 02:30.300 --> 02:32.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it will be because of people who turn out 02:32.733 --> 02:36.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and vote for Cornell West, or vote for Jill Stein, 02:36.933 --> 02:39.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% which is what happened in 2016. 02:39.166 --> 02:40.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I do think that most of them 02:40.466 --> 02:42.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% have learned the lesson of that. 02:42.033 --> 02:43.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But just one little point, 02:43.666 --> 02:45.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the thing you hear from the MAGA people all the time 02:45.833 --> 02:49.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is that we're doing this because it was winning. 02:49.433 --> 02:50.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Donald Trump is a winner, 02:50.966 --> 02:53.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which is weird because as you point out, 02:53.266 --> 02:56.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Republicans had won a lot before he came down the escalator, 02:56.733 --> 02:58.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and they've lost a lot since he's been there. 02:58.900 --> 03:00.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Host] He never won the popular vote. 03:00.700 --> 03:02.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And he's gonna lose it again this year. 03:02.700 --> 03:04.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Lose it again this year- - By a big margin. 03:04.233 --> 03:07.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - 2018 was a blowout in favor of the Democrats, right? 03:07.333 --> 03:11.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% 2022 was not anything approaching the red wave, right? 03:11.100 --> 03:14.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And all the state elections, to the questioners point, 03:14.133 --> 03:16.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the last year since Dobbs decision, have gone... 03:16.366 --> 03:18.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, the Democrats elected a state senator, 03:18.933 --> 03:20.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I think, in Alabama. 03:20.600 --> 03:22.000 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. - Right? 03:22.000 --> 03:24.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, you can't imagine some of these things. 03:24.066 --> 03:28.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So they seem to at least be profiting from this. 03:28.800 --> 03:30.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Right, and I do think, I mean, 03:30.533 --> 03:33.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the fact that the nomination of Joe Biden 03:33.033 --> 03:36.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% over Bernie Sanders was an act of pragmatism. 03:36.900 --> 03:39.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, there is that sense of pragmatism. 03:39.766 --> 03:41.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The African American vote 03:41.533 --> 03:44.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is much more pragmatic than it is ideological. 03:44.300 --> 03:47.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think this is one of the things that we've seen here. 03:47.966 --> 03:50.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But Donald Trump has done a remarkable job. 03:50.433 --> 03:53.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You talked about how the con has gone on for so long. 03:53.600 --> 03:56.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He's also gas lighted Republicans into thinking 03:56.666 --> 04:00.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that no, we never lose, 04:01.533 --> 04:04.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I can never lose, I can only be cheated. 04:04.366 --> 04:06.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This is crucial for his self-image, obviously, 04:06.666 --> 04:08.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that he didn't actually lose. 04:08.300 --> 04:11.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And he did something, and we haven't even gotten into it. 04:11.033 --> 04:12.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We didn't have time to get into it, 04:12.500 --> 04:14.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but what Donald Trump is doing with abortion 04:14.500 --> 04:16.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% is very interesting to me 04:16.433 --> 04:20.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because part of his gas lighting is, in 2022, 04:20.300 --> 04:23.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where the Republicans really underperformed, 04:23.166 --> 04:24.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think there was a lot of recognition 04:24.633 --> 04:26.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that was because of Trump. 04:26.300 --> 04:30.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It was because of the fallout from January 6th. 04:30.100 --> 04:32.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - [Host] Well, they had terrible candidate recruitment also. 04:32.100 --> 04:35.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Terrible candidate, but we what Trump's line was? 04:35.433 --> 04:37.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He was telling people it was because of abortion. 04:37.433 --> 04:40.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It was because you pro-lifers, and now, 04:40.000 --> 04:42.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he's kind of thrown them under the bus a little bit. 04:42.700 --> 04:45.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% [Audience Member] But isn't he losing that on both sides? 04:45.000 --> 04:46.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I mean, he's not threading the needle here. 04:46.400 --> 04:48.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - No, no, no, and he's not gonna be able to. 04:48.700 --> 04:50.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This is one of the things why I don't think 04:50.733 --> 04:52.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that he's LeBron James. 04:52.133 --> 04:55.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think he's put himself in a trick box on abortion. 04:55.733 --> 04:58.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% There is a point where, if you actually have no principle 04:58.800 --> 05:00.333 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and you're a complete opportunist 05:00.333 --> 05:03.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and you're trying to speak a foreign language, 05:03.700 --> 05:05.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it's always like anytime Trump 05:05.933 --> 05:07.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% tries to speak on these issues, 05:07.800 --> 05:11.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you can tell it's like sort of in translation, 05:11.300 --> 05:14.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he doesn't ever quite get it right. 05:14.100 --> 05:17.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Well, both sides didn't like what he said on Monday. 05:17.466 --> 05:18.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And they're not going to- - And they're not going to. 05:18.766 --> 05:20.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so thank you for your great questions. 05:20.100 --> 05:22.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But we talked about this a moment backstage, 05:22.433 --> 05:24.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but let's just say a word about this 05:24.300 --> 05:25.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% before we take the next question. 05:25.633 --> 05:28.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So the Arizona Supreme Court unearthing a law 05:28.066 --> 05:29.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that apparently was on the books 05:29.900 --> 05:32.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% before there was an Arizona, right? 05:32.666 --> 05:35.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And then the Florida decision, by their Supreme Court, 05:35.100 --> 05:37.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to put a six week ban into effect. 05:37.300 --> 05:39.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Those don't help him. 05:39.300 --> 05:41.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Oh no, no, and he knows that. 05:41.133 --> 05:43.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I mean, he does get it, 05:43.400 --> 05:45.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% especially because in both Florida and Arizona, 05:45.400 --> 05:47.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it's likely there'll be referendum. 05:47.800 --> 05:52.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And everywhere this has been on the ballot, pro-life- 05:54.066 --> 05:55.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, it's turned a lot of people out too. 05:55.366 --> 05:57.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Yes, I mean, it's an engine, does two things, 05:57.466 --> 05:59.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it motivates democratic voters 05:59.333 --> 06:01.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and it alienates swing voters. 06:01.666 --> 06:04.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so he does understand this is a problem, 06:04.166 --> 06:05.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% but you know what, 06:06.466 --> 06:08.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I don't see how he threads the needle on all of this, 06:08.233 --> 06:11.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because first of all, and to your question, 06:11.133 --> 06:12.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% have the Democrats kind of learned? 06:12.766 --> 06:16.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Have you noticed how simple their argument is today? 06:16.166 --> 06:19.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It is, "Trump did this." 06:19.533 --> 06:21.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's like they're not making this long, 06:21.933 --> 06:23.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Aristotelian argument, it's like- 06:23.266 --> 06:24.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - More complicated. - He did this. 06:24.833 --> 06:26.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - He did it. - He did it, and of course, 06:26.400 --> 06:27.933 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% he bragged about it, and you know, 06:27.933 --> 06:31.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he said, "I'm responsible for Roe versus Wade 06:31.366 --> 06:33.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% being overturned," but then, 06:33.600 --> 06:38.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he was talked into, and this is really interesting to me, 06:38.233 --> 06:39.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he's talked into the idea that 06:39.766 --> 06:42.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that was really all about state's rights. 06:42.100 --> 06:44.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And I think, as somebody who's been 06:44.733 --> 06:47.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% part of the pro-life movement for a long time, 06:47.166 --> 06:48.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I don't think you can overstate 06:48.533 --> 06:51.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% how surprised the movement was by actually winning. 06:51.900 --> 06:53.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% They had 50 years to think about 06:53.633 --> 06:55.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what they would do in a post-Roe world, 06:55.900 --> 06:58.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but they never really thought through 06:58.166 --> 07:00.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% what the answer was going to be. 07:00.166 --> 07:01.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And I will tell you, 07:01.433 --> 07:04.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for most people who are pro-life out there, 07:04.833 --> 07:08.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they did not think it was about state's rights. 07:08.666 --> 07:10.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so when he turns around 07:10.200 --> 07:12.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and he pulls something from 1954, 07:15.033 --> 07:16.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he thinks, "This is my magic bullet, 07:16.833 --> 07:18.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I've taken this off the table, 07:18.300 --> 07:20.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there's nothing the Democrats are gonna say," 07:20.300 --> 07:21.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you've got the right to life movement going, 07:21.566 --> 07:23.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Wait, that wasn't what we were for." 07:23.966 --> 07:25.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, I heard Right to Life people saying, 07:25.833 --> 07:28.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as a consequence of what he said on Monday, he's pro-choice. 07:28.633 --> 07:31.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - He is technically pro-choice, 07:31.800 --> 07:33.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and you're seeing this all over the country. 07:33.166 --> 07:36.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Carrie Lake cut an ad in Arizona. 07:36.266 --> 07:38.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Carrie Lake, we all know who she is, right? 07:38.366 --> 07:39.533 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% I mean- - She ran for governor 07:39.533 --> 07:40.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the last time and lost. - And when she 07:40.866 --> 07:43.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ran for governor, she endorsed the 1864 law. 07:43.833 --> 07:47.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - The exact same thing by number of the bill. 07:47.266 --> 07:48.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like she specifically called it out. 07:48.766 --> 07:51.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Right, and she said, "There's no exceptions 07:51.066 --> 07:52.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% except for life of the mother, 07:52.666 --> 07:56.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and this is what we will have in Arizona, and it's great." 07:56.166 --> 07:58.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% She's now done a complete 180 07:58.266 --> 08:01.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and has done an ad that is indistinguishable 08:01.433 --> 08:05.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% from a pro-choice Democrat saying, "I choose life, 08:05.433 --> 08:07.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but I am not everybody and we could do this." 08:07.400 --> 08:10.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so I'm not sure this is fully played out 08:10.733 --> 08:13.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in terms of the disillusionment of the Pro-Life Movement, 08:13.233 --> 08:18.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but also, he is now stuck owning every extreme, 08:18.033 --> 08:21.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% punitive, draconian law in the country. 08:21.600 --> 08:24.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, he's got the worst of all possible worlds. 08:24.766 --> 08:29.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He's basically said, "For all you pro-lifers in blue states, 08:31.400 --> 08:33.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you're on your own, I'm not gonna do anything." 08:35.433 --> 08:38.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You have Republican candidates in Michigan basically saying, 08:38.366 --> 08:41.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "Yeah, I wouldn't do anything about our pro-choice laws." 08:43.066 --> 08:46.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And yet, he owns the laws in Mississippi, 08:46.666 --> 08:49.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Alabama, Florida, Texas. 08:49.000 --> 08:50.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - He owns Kate Cox. - Yep. 08:50.866 --> 08:52.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Right, I mean, if you think about it. 08:52.400 --> 08:53.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating. 08:53.833 --> 08:55.300 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Dave. 08:55.300 --> 08:56.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Oh, I was gonna about abortion, 08:56.233 --> 08:57.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but you've just covered it. 08:57.500 --> 08:58.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% What do you think the result will be 08:58.900 --> 09:01.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if he's found guilty in the Star Daniel's case, 09:01.166 --> 09:02.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% which starts on Monday? 09:04.200 --> 09:07.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Well, no one knows because, okay, 09:07.266 --> 09:08.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I mean, first of all, 09:08.500 --> 09:10.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we're in this completely different universe 09:10.100 --> 09:13.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where the idea that you would have a convicted felon 09:13.166 --> 09:15.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who'd be running for president of the United States 09:15.000 --> 09:16.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% would be absurd. 09:16.166 --> 09:17.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I mean, in any other walk of life, 09:17.833 --> 09:21.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if you're charged with a felony, you wouldn't be still 09:21.566 --> 09:23.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the Speaker of the House of Representatives, 09:23.000 --> 09:25.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you wouldn't be the CEO of the Ford Corporation. 09:25.000 --> 09:28.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I mean, it's mind bending. 09:28.566 --> 09:31.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So there is that conventional wisdom, which is, 09:31.366 --> 09:33.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he's gonna shoot somebody, he's gonna get away with it, 09:33.600 --> 09:35.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% he's gonna get stronger. 09:35.200 --> 09:36.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Maybe that's right. 09:36.933 --> 09:38.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But a felony conviction, 09:40.466 --> 09:44.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think is, let's just say it's not an asset 09:44.033 --> 09:46.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the general election. (audience laughs) 09:46.466 --> 09:50.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It might be an asset in a Republican primary, 09:50.100 --> 09:52.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but I'm just trying to think how, 09:52.866 --> 09:54.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% what voter in America is gonna say, 09:54.666 --> 09:56.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% "I didn't vote for him last time, 09:56.500 --> 09:59.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but, you know, since he's been found guilty of this felony 09:59.100 --> 10:02.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for paying off the porn star he was schtupping 10:02.566 --> 10:05.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% while his wife was at home nursing, 10:05.100 --> 10:07.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think I'm gonna go with him now." 10:09.033 --> 10:10.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I just don't see- - Well, that's actually 10:10.800 --> 10:12.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a really interesting question. 10:12.166 --> 10:15.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Where are the new votes for him in this scenario? 10:15.966 --> 10:17.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% This is why you say, and I happen to agree with you, 10:17.700 --> 10:19.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in all likelihood, he loses the popular vote again, 10:19.700 --> 10:22.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% where are the new votes for him, under these circumstances? 10:22.733 --> 10:25.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I don't see it except that their strategy is 10:25.766 --> 10:29.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that there're still un-mined, angry, 10:29.466 --> 10:32.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% White, rural voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania- 10:32.200 --> 10:33.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Who didn't vote last time. - Right. 10:33.600 --> 10:35.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But who could be- - Persuaded to vote 10:35.733 --> 10:37.233 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yes. 10:37.233 --> 10:38.600 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Sir. 10:38.600 --> 10:40.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - This week, Donald Trump 10:40.466 --> 10:45.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is selling a Bible to pay off a porn star. 10:46.866 --> 10:49.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Charlie] You think that's problematic? 10:49.600 --> 10:52.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (audience laughs) 10:52.100 --> 10:54.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Is this gonna make a difference to evangelicals 10:54.000 --> 10:55.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and women in your opinion? 10:55.533 --> 10:56.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Yeah, I wonder about that. 10:56.933 --> 10:58.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, we know what the evangelical vote has done. 10:58.466 --> 11:02.333 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% They've forgiven him his sins, right? 11:02.333 --> 11:03.700 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Yeah. 11:03.700 --> 11:05.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - If they're gonna forgive him all the other stuff, 11:05.233 --> 11:07.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they're gonna forgive him this, you know? 11:07.133 --> 11:09.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, it is one of those eye-rolling moments 11:09.466 --> 11:13.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where it was so cynical that he's hawking a 60, 11:13.566 --> 11:15.300 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I mean, he's a billionaire, right, 11:15.300 --> 11:18.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he wants people to read the word of God. 11:18.100 --> 11:20.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He could give away the Bibles, right? 11:20.033 --> 11:21.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I mean, he could donate them. 11:21.200 --> 11:23.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Instead, he's selling $60 Bibles 11:23.400 --> 11:26.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and you know the money is gonna go for the legal fees. 11:26.400 --> 11:29.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But again, it's 2024, 11:29.833 --> 11:34.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the normal laws of political gravity don't apply, right? 11:34.500 --> 11:38.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, and I have to say that I have worked on this 11:38.333 --> 11:41.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as hard as almost anything, trying to figure out 11:41.100 --> 11:44.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the whole Christian evangelical flip flop. 11:44.033 --> 11:46.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This was the one thing, after the election, 11:46.833 --> 11:49.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and I was writing a book, "How the Right Lost its Mind," 11:49.700 --> 11:52.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the most difficult chapter for me was, 11:52.500 --> 11:56.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% explain this to me, how do you have evangelical Christians, 11:56.333 --> 12:00.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the people who, back in the 1990s, were the most intensely, 12:01.700 --> 12:03.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% would, by the largest margins say 12:03.733 --> 12:06.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that personal character really mattered. 12:06.200 --> 12:08.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Remember back during the Clinton years, 12:08.500 --> 12:12.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when character mattered, they were off the charts. 12:12.033 --> 12:15.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% By 2016, no demographic group had switched 12:15.266 --> 12:17.166 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% as radically as evangelical Christians 12:17.166 --> 12:19.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in saying that personal character didn't matter. 12:19.500 --> 12:23.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so I spent time talking to people like Dr. Russell Moore 12:23.233 --> 12:25.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and David French, and my friend, Peter Waner, 12:25.666 --> 12:27.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you know, people who were in that world 12:27.866 --> 12:30.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and they struggled with it as well. 12:30.300 --> 12:33.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And the power of rationalization, 12:33.666 --> 12:35.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the power of, you know, convincing, 12:35.266 --> 12:39.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% well, we don't want a pastor, we just want a champion, 12:39.733 --> 12:42.300 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% he will be the defender of our faith, 12:42.300 --> 12:44.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% has been incredibly powerful. 12:44.766 --> 12:47.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I still have trouble understanding because 12:49.266 --> 12:51.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% their understanding of what it means to be a Christian 12:52.966 --> 12:54.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is very different than my understanding 12:54.300 --> 12:56.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% of what it means to be a Christian. 12:59.633 --> 13:01.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% At this point, it appears to be unshakeable. 13:01.800 --> 13:04.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I will say that this is going back to the thing 13:04.400 --> 13:07.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% about they're not coming after me, they're coming after you. 13:07.433 --> 13:11.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He has, with his lizard brain, understood 13:11.400 --> 13:15.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that Christians have decided they are an oppressed minority. 13:15.100 --> 13:19.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I do remember making the argument, back in 2016, 13:19.633 --> 13:22.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that I wish that people on the left 13:22.433 --> 13:24.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% were more sensitive to how powerful 13:24.133 --> 13:26.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% the issue of religious liberty was, 13:26.466 --> 13:28.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that if you take the win, 13:28.866 --> 13:31.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% just take the win on a lot of these issues, 13:31.300 --> 13:36.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when you try to roll over conscience clause, 13:36.233 --> 13:39.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or insist that everyone believe what you believe, 13:39.766 --> 13:43.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% then you're gonna create more problems, 13:43.266 --> 13:45.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and he's exploited that. 13:45.266 --> 13:48.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He has exploited that because, so for example, 13:48.933 --> 13:52.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% if we were an evangelical group and somebody was saying, 13:52.833 --> 13:55.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "Okay, it's not enough that they 13:55.066 --> 13:57.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% have now legalized gay marriage, 13:58.466 --> 14:00.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they're gonna force your church to perform gay marriage, 14:00.866 --> 14:02.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they're gonna force you to do it." 14:02.433 --> 14:04.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And everybody in the room would nod their head saying, 14:04.866 --> 14:06.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "Yeah, they're coming for us. 14:06.666 --> 14:08.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They think that we're bigots if we don't believe it, 14:08.766 --> 14:10.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and they're gonna make us do that." 14:10.633 --> 14:13.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Now, that's not true, but it plays. 14:13.866 --> 14:15.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And in fact, members of the gay and lesbian community 14:15.600 --> 14:16.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% would tell you they don't particularly 14:16.633 --> 14:18.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% wanna be married by people 14:18.200 --> 14:19.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who are hostile to the idea of marrying them anyway, right? 14:19.600 --> 14:21.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, the whole thing is almost, in some ways, 14:21.666 --> 14:25.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a nothing burger, except it becomes a something burger 14:25.100 --> 14:27.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when you weaponize it. - Right. 14:27.300 --> 14:29.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Right? And it was weaponized. 14:29.266 --> 14:32.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Right, and this is something 14:32.900 --> 14:35.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that I think people need to keep in mind, that, 14:35.600 --> 14:37.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I was saying that if I show contempt for you, 14:37.500 --> 14:40.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you're not gonna listen to my ideas about school choice. 14:40.866 --> 14:44.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% If you say to an entire, you know, 14:44.433 --> 14:47.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% tens of millions of people and their church, 14:47.566 --> 14:50.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that your belief about marriage 14:50.966 --> 14:55.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is not just wrong in our diverse, tolerant culture, 14:55.166 --> 14:56.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but that if you adhere to this, 14:56.600 --> 14:59.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% you are a bigot, and that we must use 14:59.766 --> 15:01.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% the power of the government to punish you, 15:01.900 --> 15:04.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you've created a completely different dynamic. 15:04.300 --> 15:07.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So the question is, are we going to be tolerant and diverse, 15:08.700 --> 15:10.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or are we going to impose a monoculture? 15:10.633 --> 15:13.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Now, the one thing that I've said, 15:13.200 --> 15:15.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% because for those you wondering, 15:15.500 --> 15:17.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% are you still a conservative? 15:17.733 --> 15:19.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I don't know what the word means, 15:20.500 --> 15:23.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% but I do worry about illiberalism. 15:23.433 --> 15:25.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I mean, there is illiberalism on the left, 15:26.933 --> 15:28.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and there's illiberalism on the right. 15:28.933 --> 15:31.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The illiberalism on the right, represented by Donald Trump, 15:31.800 --> 15:36.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is the immediate emergency, it is the heart attack. 15:36.533 --> 15:38.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The illiberalism on the left is serious, 15:38.800 --> 15:41.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but we need to deal with the way we would deal with 15:41.266 --> 15:44.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% slow growing cancer versus heart attack right now. 15:44.733 --> 15:46.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You deal with the heart attack right now, 15:46.900 --> 15:49.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but don't pretend that there's not a problem. 15:49.733 --> 15:53.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That my concern over the next several decades 15:53.433 --> 15:57.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is that we're finding out that the forces of liberalism, 15:57.166 --> 15:58.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% liberal, constitutional democracy, 15:58.833 --> 16:01.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% are much more fragile than we thought. 16:01.200 --> 16:04.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And they could face a two-front attack, 16:04.800 --> 16:07.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we need to be prepared for both of them. 16:07.566 --> 16:08.800 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% But right now, there's no question 16:08.800 --> 16:10.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% what the greater emergency is. 16:12.300 --> 16:13.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Jordan, are we okay? 16:14.733 --> 16:16.133 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Okay. 16:16.133 --> 16:18.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We have any more? - Two more. 16:18.366 --> 16:19.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Okay, we'll just take two more, that's fine, sir. 16:19.966 --> 16:21.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - This will be quick. - Yes. 16:21.533 --> 16:23.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - This was really for Judy Woodruff, 16:23.300 --> 16:26.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but we didn't have time to ask her any questions. 16:26.400 --> 16:28.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Charlie] I'll tell you what she would say. 16:28.666 --> 16:29.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - [Host] Okay, go ahead, yeah. 16:29.566 --> 16:31.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - But you had talked about 16:31.000 --> 16:36.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the Dan Quale, Lloyd Benson debate, and- 16:37.433 --> 16:38.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Did you remember she had moderated that? I had forgotten. 16:38.700 --> 16:40.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I had forgotten that. - I had forgotten that. 16:40.000 --> 16:41.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I remember the debate though. 16:41.100 --> 16:42.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Oh, of course. 16:42.633 --> 16:44.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - [Audience Member] And when they mentioned Jack Kennedy, 16:44.233 --> 16:47.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% she said the crowd exploded. - Right. 16:47.666 --> 16:49.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - There's gonna be a debate, apparently, 16:49.533 --> 16:52.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% with Trump and Biden. 16:52.133 --> 16:53.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Charlie] Well, that's an interesting question. 16:53.500 --> 16:56.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Right, but what bothers me about the debate, 16:56.433 --> 16:57.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I'd just like to know your opinion, 16:57.966 --> 17:02.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is you have Trump's side over here, Biden's side here, 17:04.200 --> 17:07.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% every time they say anything, it explodes. 17:07.266 --> 17:09.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And it bothers me 17:09.300 --> 17:12.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because I'd like to hear what they have to say 17:12.766 --> 17:14.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and then get that through. 17:14.333 --> 17:18.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Do you think it'll ever stop where they won't have a crowd? 17:18.066 --> 17:20.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Or if you do have a crowd, 17:20.100 --> 17:23.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% where you won't even hear them yell and scream, 17:23.266 --> 17:25.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Did they have a crowd in 2020? 17:25.133 --> 17:26.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I don't remember, I mean, look, 17:26.400 --> 17:27.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% people don't obey rules, period, right? 17:27.966 --> 17:29.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like, even if they say, "You can only come in, 17:29.533 --> 17:31.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but you have to be quiet," people aren't quiet anyway. 17:31.866 --> 17:34.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Okay, can I turn this around on you? 17:34.166 --> 17:36.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Okay because I was actually thinking of this 17:36.133 --> 17:37.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% on the plane coming here today. 17:38.433 --> 17:40.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That I have some contrarian ideas about this. 17:40.566 --> 17:42.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So, for example, one of the things 17:42.200 --> 17:45.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that I would suggest to the media is 17:47.300 --> 17:49.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if you acknowledge this is not a normal year, 17:49.533 --> 17:51.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I'm gonna get to this in a second, 17:51.000 --> 17:53.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% why would you cover the political conventions 17:53.100 --> 17:54.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% as if they actually matter? 17:54.833 --> 17:57.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, I mean the Republican convention 17:57.900 --> 18:00.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is in my hometown in Milwaukee, which is like, screw me. 18:00.833 --> 18:03.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, it's just all these Trump-ees coming, 18:03.366 --> 18:05.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but I mean, what is the news value of this? 18:05.600 --> 18:09.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Why would you devote three days of live coverage 18:09.500 --> 18:11.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to what's basically an infomercial? 18:11.133 --> 18:14.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then I started thinking about the debate. 18:14.100 --> 18:16.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And I guess my default setting is, 18:16.233 --> 18:17.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of course debates are good, you know, 18:17.933 --> 18:19.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Lincoln, Douglas, all of these great moments, 18:19.800 --> 18:21.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% you know, Kennedy, Nixon, 18:21.800 --> 18:24.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but there's a case that can be made, 18:25.566 --> 18:27.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and all the networks are basically saying, 18:27.333 --> 18:30.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we want you to have a debate, commit to debates. 18:30.700 --> 18:34.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But the debate is just the show, it's not the substance. 18:34.733 --> 18:38.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We will not be smarter after that debate, you know, 18:39.600 --> 18:41.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and we know how it will play out. 18:41.866 --> 18:43.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And there is a school of thought that says, 18:43.866 --> 18:46.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if you want to say this is not normal, 18:47.800 --> 18:52.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% do not dignify Donald Trump with being on the stage. 18:54.833 --> 18:56.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (audience applauds) 18:56.300 --> 18:58.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Okay, so I mean, just can I just ask this? 18:58.666 --> 19:02.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I'm toying with the idea of saying, 19:02.966 --> 19:04.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% no, I don't want a debate. 19:04.433 --> 19:05.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I don't wanna cover the conventions 19:05.933 --> 19:07.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and I don't want a debate 19:07.200 --> 19:09.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because how do we say this is not normal 19:09.366 --> 19:10.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in that particular way? 19:10.833 --> 19:14.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% All of my instincts tell me we should have a debate. 19:14.266 --> 19:17.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It seems like that ritual of democracy, 19:17.433 --> 19:19.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but maybe it's not a good idea this year. 19:19.666 --> 19:20.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So how many people think 19:20.966 --> 19:23.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that Joe Biden should debate Donald Trump? 19:23.966 --> 19:26.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% How many think he should say, "Screw you?" 19:27.566 --> 19:28.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (audience applauds) 19:28.933 --> 19:30.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Well, look, the argument from the Trump side 19:30.900 --> 19:34.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% may be, "You have to debate me," 19:34.166 --> 19:37.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and the response should be, "Nikki Haley would like a word." 19:37.100 --> 19:38.600 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. - Right? 19:38.600 --> 19:40.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, you basically told us what you think 19:40.833 --> 19:42.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of the responsibility to debate 19:42.700 --> 19:46.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% during the Republican primary when you didn't. 19:46.100 --> 19:48.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% No backsies. - Well this, I think- 19:48.866 --> 19:50.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Right, that could be one answer. 19:50.800 --> 19:52.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - That will be one of the answers. 19:52.233 --> 19:53.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, there's a case that could be made 19:53.933 --> 19:56.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that, first of all, I mean the important thing 19:56.600 --> 20:01.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is that, look, if I'm Trump, I'm gonna try to say, 20:03.066 --> 20:04.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "You're afraid to debate me, you're old," and everything. 20:04.700 --> 20:06.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I mean, there's a risk to this, 20:06.400 --> 20:08.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there's a political risk to this, 20:08.066 --> 20:12.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but there's a substantive, I think a case can be made 20:12.533 --> 20:15.133 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that let's not pretend that the show 20:15.133 --> 20:16.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% is what this election is about- 20:16.900 --> 20:18.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Is the substance. - Because- 20:18.366 --> 20:19.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - [Host] Right, I agree. Ma'am. 20:19.500 --> 20:21.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Yeah, do you remember the last debate 20:21.366 --> 20:24.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that was crazy between the two of 'em? 20:24.033 --> 20:26.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Yes right. - My question, I mean, 20:26.766 --> 20:28.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% all these issues are very interesting, 20:28.800 --> 20:30.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and I love you Charlie. 20:30.166 --> 20:32.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I listened to you, before work, all the time, 20:32.000 --> 20:34.133 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and when I heard you were going off, 20:34.133 --> 20:35.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it was really upsetting to me, 20:35.866 --> 20:39.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but I do like Tim Miller, but nobody's like you. 20:39.666 --> 20:42.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Okay, having said that, I'd like to ask you, 20:42.633 --> 20:45.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what's your opinion about the electoral college? 20:45.933 --> 20:48.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's off all these issues, I realize, 20:48.166 --> 20:51.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but it's so important to our democracy, 20:51.266 --> 20:53.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and how can we ever get rid of it? 20:53.633 --> 20:55.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I mean, I know the senators 20:55.533 --> 20:57.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% used to be elected by the legislatures, 20:57.633 --> 20:59.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and they passed an amendment, 20:59.100 --> 21:02.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and now we directly elect senators. 21:02.033 --> 21:06.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So why can't we change the Constitution 21:06.033 --> 21:08.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and get rid of electoral college? 21:08.200 --> 21:10.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Or maybe it's not even in the Constitution, I'm not sure. 21:10.700 --> 21:12.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Oh it is. - No, and you'd need 21:12.066 --> 21:14.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% 38 states, is that right, is there some number to- 21:14.600 --> 21:15.733 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah,- - I mean, 21:15.733 --> 21:17.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% do you ever foresee that happening? 21:17.533 --> 21:18.800 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - No. 21:18.800 --> 21:20.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - No, huh? - No, I mean, 21:20.000 --> 21:23.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and clearly it no longer represents 21:23.100 --> 21:25.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the reality of the American political- 21:25.000 --> 21:26.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Six out of seven elections, right? 21:26.466 --> 21:29.100 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Yeah, I mean, and that of course, 21:29.100 --> 21:32.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it was not a problem up until then. 21:32.100 --> 21:35.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, there was a point, I'm trying to remember, you know, 21:35.100 --> 21:37.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% up until 2000, it pretty much never happened. 21:37.433 --> 21:39.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - No no, but literally it's been, 21:39.900 --> 21:42.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% except for Obama beating Romney, 21:42.466 --> 21:47.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I believe every election since Bush and Gore, 21:48.466 --> 21:50.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I believe this is right, 21:50.200 --> 21:51.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% the popular vote and the electoral vote have been different. 21:51.700 --> 21:53.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I think that's right. 21:53.033 --> 21:56.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I think Bush over- - No, Bush over Kerry- 21:56.733 --> 21:58.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Bush over Kerry- - No, or maybe 21:58.600 --> 22:00.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it was Bush over Kerry, in fact. 22:00.100 --> 22:02.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - No, but look, it's just one of those things. 22:02.733 --> 22:04.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I don't think it's gonna happen 22:04.366 --> 22:06.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% because it would require the consent 22:06.533 --> 22:09.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of the states that rely upon it. 22:09.400 --> 22:12.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So it would be great to have it gone, but there's- 22:12.266 --> 22:14.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - If you're Montana, why do you wanna give up the fact 22:14.800 --> 22:16.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that you're equal to everybody else in this, 22:16.766 --> 22:18.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% as opposed to simply saying 22:18.300 --> 22:21.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you're million population is diminished in its influence. 22:21.533 --> 22:24.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Yeah, I mean, on the other hand, I mean, look, 22:24.133 --> 22:27.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the case for it is, I think, overwhelming 22:27.000 --> 22:29.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because the fact that we're about to have 22:29.466 --> 22:31.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% this consequential election, 22:31.666 --> 22:34.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and only six states really count, 22:34.800 --> 22:39.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that if I live in 44 states, basically, it doesn't matter. 22:43.233 --> 22:45.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I mean, that's gotta be frustrating 22:45.666 --> 22:47.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for voters on both sides, 22:47.400 --> 22:49.800 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% but I just don't see the dynamic. 22:49.800 --> 22:51.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - [Audience Member] It only takes 3/4ths of the state. 22:51.900 --> 22:52.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - That's 3/4ths of the state. 22:54.500 --> 22:56.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - [Audience Member] So all the other states would want that, 22:56.966 --> 22:58.600 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% wouldn't they? - No. 22:58.600 --> 23:00.233 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% Well- - Not sure, not sure. 23:00.233 --> 23:03.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Okay, before we go, we're gonna do the six before we go. 23:03.766 --> 23:04.800 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Okay. - Gut check us. 23:04.800 --> 23:06.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - [Charlie] Okay. 23:06.333 --> 23:08.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Who's gonna win the six states, Michigan, gut check. 23:08.400 --> 23:09.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I think Biden wins. - Biden wins. 23:09.666 --> 23:11.066 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Georgia. 23:11.066 --> 23:12.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - I don't know. - Don't know. 23:12.500 --> 23:14.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Wisconsin, you know Wisconsin better than anybody. 23:14.400 --> 23:15.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I think Biden still wins. 23:15.933 --> 23:18.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Even though now that liberal Supreme Court justice 23:18.766 --> 23:20.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% just announced she's gonna step down 23:20.633 --> 23:23.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and Republicans are gonna be motivated to turn out to vote. 23:23.700 --> 23:25.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - That's not 'til 2023. 23:25.033 --> 23:27.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So it doesn't make a difference now, 2025? 23:27.400 --> 23:28.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - 2025, I'm sorry, yes. 23:28.566 --> 23:30.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - So you still think, okay, Nevada. 23:32.933 --> 23:37.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - That one could flip, I'm worried about Nevada. 23:37.200 --> 23:39.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I think that could be Trump. 23:39.600 --> 23:40.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Arizona. 23:40.533 --> 23:41.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I think that's gonna be Biden. 23:41.966 --> 23:43.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Well, you know, I would've worried about Arizona 23:43.933 --> 23:45.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if I were the Biden people, until this week. 23:45.666 --> 23:47.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Yeah, this week. 23:47.233 --> 23:49.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - I mean, if Carrie Lake is walking away from that thing, 23:49.266 --> 23:50.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% you know, something. 23:50.466 --> 23:52.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Okay, the big kahuna, Pennsylvania. 23:52.500 --> 23:53.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - I think Biden wins Pennsylvania. 23:53.900 --> 23:56.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - You do? Do you think Bob Casey gets reelected? 23:56.066 --> 23:57.600 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yes. - To the Senate? 23:57.600 --> 23:58.500 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. - Wow, okay. 23:58.500 --> 23:59.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Well you know what, 23:59.833 --> 24:00.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there's the math on the election right there. 24:00.866 --> 24:02.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You didn't answer the question 24:02.233 --> 24:03.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% when I asked you at the beginning. 24:03.200 --> 24:04.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You just answered it now. 24:04.533 --> 24:06.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well you didn't ask about North Carolina. 24:07.933 --> 24:09.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Well, Biden could afford to lose North Carolina. 24:09.366 --> 24:11.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% He lost it last time. 24:11.000 --> 24:12.366 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 24:12.366 --> 24:15.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% No, so I still think that he's in a good position 24:15.200 --> 24:18.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to win those states, but if he loses the swing states, 24:18.866 --> 24:20.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I mean there's weird things 24:20.066 --> 24:21.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% like what they're doing in Nebraska. 24:21.566 --> 24:23.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Right, but I thought the legislature didn't support that. 24:23.366 --> 24:25.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Right, but that doesn't mean they're done. 24:25.400 --> 24:28.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Yeah yeah, it's never over, a lot of game left. 24:28.433 --> 24:30.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - I mean, there is a game this out and make yourself crazy, 24:30.866 --> 24:33.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and there is a scenario in which 24:33.000 --> 24:35.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Joe Biden gets 269 electoral votes. 24:35.766 --> 24:37.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - And it goes to the house. 24:37.400 --> 24:39.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, it could. - Could. 24:39.666 --> 24:40.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - And then that's Trump. 24:42.266 --> 24:43.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - I'm gonna take an Ambien, I think, 24:43.633 --> 24:45.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and then, until after the election. 24:45.200 --> 24:47.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% All right look, give Charlie Sykes a big hand, well great. 24:47.733 --> 24:49.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% All right, thank you guys, see you soon.