1 00:00:01,033 --> 00:00:02,300 - Charlie, welcome back to Austin. 2 00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:04,200 We actually met at Trip Fest a couple years ago. 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,966 You signed a book for me, I really appreciate that. 4 00:00:06,966 --> 00:00:08,466 So, I have a two part question for you, 5 00:00:08,466 --> 00:00:10,466 and kind of to preface this, 6 00:00:10,466 --> 00:00:12,566 I'm originally from the New York area, 7 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,933 Wall Street guy, and remember, for example, 8 00:00:17,933 --> 00:00:20,400 the Central Park Five, like it was yesterday, 9 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,500 and things like that, and folks like me 10 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:26,066 could never imagine that this con could continue. 11 00:00:26,066 --> 00:00:27,466 Right? - Right. 12 00:00:27,466 --> 00:00:29,100 And so on, but I just kind of wanna preface that. 13 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:31,433 I'm a guy really kind of right down the middle. 14 00:00:33,733 --> 00:00:35,133 So the question that, I guess, 15 00:00:35,133 --> 00:00:37,900 that I wanna come across here with is 16 00:00:39,700 --> 00:00:42,233 I think that it's kind of interesting, 17 00:00:42,233 --> 00:00:44,033 prior to Trump, 18 00:00:44,033 --> 00:00:47,733 Republicans were really good at winning elections, right? 19 00:00:47,733 --> 00:00:49,833 I've always felt that Democrats 20 00:00:49,833 --> 00:00:52,033 were more interested in winning a fight 21 00:00:52,033 --> 00:00:53,833 than winning an election. 22 00:00:53,833 --> 00:00:56,566 So question one is, I hope they've learned that lesson, 23 00:00:56,566 --> 00:00:59,766 because kind of since that point in 2016, 24 00:00:59,766 --> 00:01:04,033 it's kind of come more towards the Democrats way of winning. 25 00:01:04,033 --> 00:01:06,333 I mean, they just have won a lot of the elections. 26 00:01:06,333 --> 00:01:09,233 Maybe the abortion issue has been a major thing and so on. 27 00:01:10,666 --> 00:01:14,400 So the first thing I want to know is, do you feel like, 28 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:16,733 so I kind of wanna go to the other side. 29 00:01:16,733 --> 00:01:18,133 You talked about the Republican side, 30 00:01:18,133 --> 00:01:19,833 but on the Dems, have they learned their lesson, 31 00:01:19,833 --> 00:01:23,200 that they gotta win an election, right, not a fight, 32 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,766 and number two, it seems to me that prior to 2016, 33 00:01:26,766 --> 00:01:30,566 folks like you and others, and other Republican strategists, 34 00:01:30,566 --> 00:01:33,233 you understood that and you knew how to win elections. 35 00:01:33,233 --> 00:01:36,033 And I understand how politics work, 36 00:01:36,033 --> 00:01:38,033 but I don't understand why they don't 37 00:01:38,033 --> 00:01:40,200 come to folks like you and others 38 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,066 because this is gonna be an election 39 00:01:42,066 --> 00:01:44,066 that's gonna be right on the margins, 40 00:01:44,066 --> 00:01:47,166 as you guys discussed, in six or so states, 41 00:01:47,166 --> 00:01:49,100 because I think that that's really important. 42 00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:51,466 And ask for your opinions at least, 43 00:01:52,633 --> 00:01:54,500 and respect those and work on those. 44 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:57,600 - So, I come from one of those six states- 45 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,500 - You're from Wisconsin- (everyone speaking at once) 46 00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:01,900 - In Wisconsin, they have figured this out. 47 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:04,166 It is interesting, and I do have a good relationship 48 00:02:04,166 --> 00:02:05,700 with some of the people there, 49 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:09,133 even though we're not on the same ideological wavelength. 50 00:02:09,133 --> 00:02:12,333 So they have. Now, does that apply everywhere? 51 00:02:12,333 --> 00:02:13,633 I honestly don't know. 52 00:02:13,633 --> 00:02:16,033 I spend most of my time looking at the horror 53 00:02:16,033 --> 00:02:19,366 of what's happening to the Republican party. 54 00:02:19,366 --> 00:02:23,233 I do worry about some of the far left fringes 55 00:02:23,233 --> 00:02:25,766 of the Democratic party. 56 00:02:25,766 --> 00:02:30,300 If Donald Trump wins Wisconsin this year, 57 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:32,733 it will be because of people who turn out 58 00:02:32,733 --> 00:02:36,933 and vote for Cornell West, or vote for Jill Stein, 59 00:02:36,933 --> 00:02:39,166 which is what happened in 2016. 60 00:02:39,166 --> 00:02:40,466 I do think that most of them 61 00:02:40,466 --> 00:02:42,033 have learned the lesson of that. 62 00:02:42,033 --> 00:02:43,666 But just one little point, 63 00:02:43,666 --> 00:02:45,833 the thing you hear from the MAGA people all the time 64 00:02:45,833 --> 00:02:49,433 is that we're doing this because it was winning. 65 00:02:49,433 --> 00:02:50,966 Donald Trump is a winner, 66 00:02:50,966 --> 00:02:53,266 which is weird because as you point out, 67 00:02:53,266 --> 00:02:56,733 Republicans had won a lot before he came down the escalator, 68 00:02:56,733 --> 00:02:58,900 and they've lost a lot since he's been there. 69 00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:00,700 - [Host] He never won the popular vote. 70 00:03:00,700 --> 00:03:02,700 - And he's gonna lose it again this year. 71 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:04,233 - Lose it again this year- - By a big margin. 72 00:03:04,233 --> 00:03:07,333 - 2018 was a blowout in favor of the Democrats, right? 73 00:03:07,333 --> 00:03:11,100 2022 was not anything approaching the red wave, right? 74 00:03:11,100 --> 00:03:14,133 And all the state elections, to the questioners point, 75 00:03:14,133 --> 00:03:16,366 in the last year since Dobbs decision, have gone... 76 00:03:16,366 --> 00:03:18,933 I mean, the Democrats elected a state senator, 77 00:03:18,933 --> 00:03:20,600 I think, in Alabama. 78 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,000 - Yeah. - Right? 79 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,066 I mean, you can't imagine some of these things. 80 00:03:24,066 --> 00:03:28,800 So they seem to at least be profiting from this. 81 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,533 - Right, and I do think, I mean, 82 00:03:30,533 --> 00:03:33,033 the fact that the nomination of Joe Biden 83 00:03:33,033 --> 00:03:36,900 over Bernie Sanders was an act of pragmatism. 84 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:39,766 I mean, there is that sense of pragmatism. 85 00:03:39,766 --> 00:03:41,533 The African American vote 86 00:03:41,533 --> 00:03:44,300 is much more pragmatic than it is ideological. 87 00:03:44,300 --> 00:03:47,966 I think this is one of the things that we've seen here. 88 00:03:47,966 --> 00:03:50,433 But Donald Trump has done a remarkable job. 89 00:03:50,433 --> 00:03:53,600 You talked about how the con has gone on for so long. 90 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,666 He's also gas lighted Republicans into thinking 91 00:03:56,666 --> 00:04:00,333 that no, we never lose, 92 00:04:01,533 --> 00:04:04,366 I can never lose, I can only be cheated. 93 00:04:04,366 --> 00:04:06,666 This is crucial for his self-image, obviously, 94 00:04:06,666 --> 00:04:08,300 that he didn't actually lose. 95 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:11,033 And he did something, and we haven't even gotten into it. 96 00:04:11,033 --> 00:04:12,500 We didn't have time to get into it, 97 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:14,500 but what Donald Trump is doing with abortion 98 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:16,433 is very interesting to me 99 00:04:16,433 --> 00:04:20,300 because part of his gas lighting is, in 2022, 100 00:04:20,300 --> 00:04:23,166 where the Republicans really underperformed, 101 00:04:23,166 --> 00:04:24,633 I think there was a lot of recognition 102 00:04:24,633 --> 00:04:26,300 that was because of Trump. 103 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:30,100 It was because of the fallout from January 6th. 104 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:32,100 - [Host] Well, they had terrible candidate recruitment also. 105 00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:35,433 - Terrible candidate, but we what Trump's line was? 106 00:04:35,433 --> 00:04:37,433 He was telling people it was because of abortion. 107 00:04:37,433 --> 00:04:40,000 It was because you pro-lifers, and now, 108 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,700 he's kind of thrown them under the bus a little bit. 109 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:45,000 [Audience Member] But isn't he losing that on both sides? 110 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,400 I mean, he's not threading the needle here. 111 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,700 - No, no, no, and he's not gonna be able to. 112 00:04:48,700 --> 00:04:50,733 This is one of the things why I don't think 113 00:04:50,733 --> 00:04:52,133 that he's LeBron James. 114 00:04:52,133 --> 00:04:55,733 I think he's put himself in a trick box on abortion. 115 00:04:55,733 --> 00:04:58,800 There is a point where, if you actually have no principle 116 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,333 and you're a complete opportunist 117 00:05:00,333 --> 00:05:03,700 and you're trying to speak a foreign language, 118 00:05:03,700 --> 00:05:05,933 it's always like anytime Trump 119 00:05:05,933 --> 00:05:07,800 tries to speak on these issues, 120 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,300 you can tell it's like sort of in translation, 121 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:14,100 and he doesn't ever quite get it right. 122 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:17,466 - Well, both sides didn't like what he said on Monday. 123 00:05:17,466 --> 00:05:18,766 - And they're not going to- - And they're not going to. 124 00:05:18,766 --> 00:05:20,100 And so thank you for your great questions. 125 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:22,433 But we talked about this a moment backstage, 126 00:05:22,433 --> 00:05:24,300 but let's just say a word about this 127 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:25,633 before we take the next question. 128 00:05:25,633 --> 00:05:28,066 So the Arizona Supreme Court unearthing a law 129 00:05:28,066 --> 00:05:29,900 that apparently was on the books 130 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:32,666 before there was an Arizona, right? 131 00:05:32,666 --> 00:05:35,100 And then the Florida decision, by their Supreme Court, 132 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:37,300 to put a six week ban into effect. 133 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:39,300 Those don't help him. 134 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:41,133 - Oh no, no, and he knows that. 135 00:05:41,133 --> 00:05:43,400 I mean, he does get it, 136 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,400 especially because in both Florida and Arizona, 137 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,800 it's likely there'll be referendum. 138 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,800 And everywhere this has been on the ballot, pro-life- 139 00:05:54,066 --> 00:05:55,366 - Well, it's turned a lot of people out too. 140 00:05:55,366 --> 00:05:57,466 - Yes, I mean, it's an engine, does two things, 141 00:05:57,466 --> 00:05:59,333 it motivates democratic voters 142 00:05:59,333 --> 00:06:01,666 and it alienates swing voters. 143 00:06:01,666 --> 00:06:04,166 And so he does understand this is a problem, 144 00:06:04,166 --> 00:06:05,066 but you know what, 145 00:06:06,466 --> 00:06:08,233 I don't see how he threads the needle on all of this, 146 00:06:08,233 --> 00:06:11,133 because first of all, and to your question, 147 00:06:11,133 --> 00:06:12,766 have the Democrats kind of learned? 148 00:06:12,766 --> 00:06:16,166 Have you noticed how simple their argument is today? 149 00:06:16,166 --> 00:06:19,533 It is, "Trump did this." 150 00:06:19,533 --> 00:06:21,933 It's like they're not making this long, 151 00:06:21,933 --> 00:06:23,266 Aristotelian argument, it's like- 152 00:06:23,266 --> 00:06:24,833 - More complicated. - He did this. 153 00:06:24,833 --> 00:06:26,400 - He did it. - He did it, and of course, 154 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:27,933 he bragged about it, and you know, 155 00:06:27,933 --> 00:06:31,366 he said, "I'm responsible for Roe versus Wade 156 00:06:31,366 --> 00:06:33,600 being overturned," but then, 157 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,233 he was talked into, and this is really interesting to me, 158 00:06:38,233 --> 00:06:39,766 he's talked into the idea that 159 00:06:39,766 --> 00:06:42,100 that was really all about state's rights. 160 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:44,733 And I think, as somebody who's been 161 00:06:44,733 --> 00:06:47,166 part of the pro-life movement for a long time, 162 00:06:47,166 --> 00:06:48,533 I don't think you can overstate 163 00:06:48,533 --> 00:06:51,900 how surprised the movement was by actually winning. 164 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:53,633 They had 50 years to think about 165 00:06:53,633 --> 00:06:55,900 what they would do in a post-Roe world, 166 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:58,166 but they never really thought through 167 00:06:58,166 --> 00:07:00,166 what the answer was going to be. 168 00:07:00,166 --> 00:07:01,433 And I will tell you, 169 00:07:01,433 --> 00:07:04,833 for most people who are pro-life out there, 170 00:07:04,833 --> 00:07:08,666 they did not think it was about state's rights. 171 00:07:08,666 --> 00:07:10,200 And so when he turns around 172 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,500 and he pulls something from 1954, 173 00:07:15,033 --> 00:07:16,833 and he thinks, "This is my magic bullet, 174 00:07:16,833 --> 00:07:18,300 I've taken this off the table, 175 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:20,300 there's nothing the Democrats are gonna say," 176 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:21,566 you've got the right to life movement going, 177 00:07:21,566 --> 00:07:23,966 "Wait, that wasn't what we were for." 178 00:07:23,966 --> 00:07:25,833 - Well, I heard Right to Life people saying, 179 00:07:25,833 --> 00:07:28,633 as a consequence of what he said on Monday, he's pro-choice. 180 00:07:28,633 --> 00:07:31,800 - He is technically pro-choice, 181 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,166 and you're seeing this all over the country. 182 00:07:33,166 --> 00:07:36,266 Carrie Lake cut an ad in Arizona. 183 00:07:36,266 --> 00:07:38,366 Carrie Lake, we all know who she is, right? 184 00:07:38,366 --> 00:07:39,533 I mean- - She ran for governor 185 00:07:39,533 --> 00:07:40,866 the last time and lost. - And when she 186 00:07:40,866 --> 00:07:43,833 ran for governor, she endorsed the 1864 law. 187 00:07:43,833 --> 00:07:47,266 - The exact same thing by number of the bill. 188 00:07:47,266 --> 00:07:48,766 Like she specifically called it out. 189 00:07:48,766 --> 00:07:51,066 - Right, and she said, "There's no exceptions 190 00:07:51,066 --> 00:07:52,666 except for life of the mother, 191 00:07:52,666 --> 00:07:56,166 and this is what we will have in Arizona, and it's great." 192 00:07:56,166 --> 00:07:58,266 She's now done a complete 180 193 00:07:58,266 --> 00:08:01,433 and has done an ad that is indistinguishable 194 00:08:01,433 --> 00:08:05,433 from a pro-choice Democrat saying, "I choose life, 195 00:08:05,433 --> 00:08:07,400 but I am not everybody and we could do this." 196 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,733 And so I'm not sure this is fully played out 197 00:08:10,733 --> 00:08:13,233 in terms of the disillusionment of the Pro-Life Movement, 198 00:08:13,233 --> 00:08:18,033 but also, he is now stuck owning every extreme, 199 00:08:18,033 --> 00:08:21,600 punitive, draconian law in the country. 200 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,766 I mean, he's got the worst of all possible worlds. 201 00:08:24,766 --> 00:08:29,133 He's basically said, "For all you pro-lifers in blue states, 202 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,900 you're on your own, I'm not gonna do anything." 203 00:08:35,433 --> 00:08:38,366 You have Republican candidates in Michigan basically saying, 204 00:08:38,366 --> 00:08:41,866 "Yeah, I wouldn't do anything about our pro-choice laws." 205 00:08:43,066 --> 00:08:46,666 And yet, he owns the laws in Mississippi, 206 00:08:46,666 --> 00:08:49,000 Alabama, Florida, Texas. 207 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,866 - He owns Kate Cox. - Yep. 208 00:08:50,866 --> 00:08:52,400 - Right, I mean, if you think about it. 209 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,833 Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating. 210 00:08:53,833 --> 00:08:55,300 Dave. 211 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:56,233 - Oh, I was gonna about abortion, 212 00:08:56,233 --> 00:08:57,500 but you've just covered it. 213 00:08:57,500 --> 00:08:58,900 What do you think the result will be 214 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:01,166 if he's found guilty in the Star Daniel's case, 215 00:09:01,166 --> 00:09:02,400 which starts on Monday? 216 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,266 - Well, no one knows because, okay, 217 00:09:07,266 --> 00:09:08,500 I mean, first of all, 218 00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:10,100 we're in this completely different universe 219 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:13,166 where the idea that you would have a convicted felon 220 00:09:13,166 --> 00:09:15,000 who'd be running for president of the United States 221 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,166 would be absurd. 222 00:09:16,166 --> 00:09:17,833 I mean, in any other walk of life, 223 00:09:17,833 --> 00:09:21,566 if you're charged with a felony, you wouldn't be still 224 00:09:21,566 --> 00:09:23,000 the Speaker of the House of Representatives, 225 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,000 you wouldn't be the CEO of the Ford Corporation. 226 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,566 I mean, it's mind bending. 227 00:09:28,566 --> 00:09:31,366 So there is that conventional wisdom, which is, 228 00:09:31,366 --> 00:09:33,600 he's gonna shoot somebody, he's gonna get away with it, 229 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,200 he's gonna get stronger. 230 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,933 Maybe that's right. 231 00:09:36,933 --> 00:09:38,800 But a felony conviction, 232 00:09:40,466 --> 00:09:44,033 I think is, let's just say it's not an asset 233 00:09:44,033 --> 00:09:46,466 in the general election. (audience laughs) 234 00:09:46,466 --> 00:09:50,100 It might be an asset in a Republican primary, 235 00:09:50,100 --> 00:09:52,866 but I'm just trying to think how, 236 00:09:52,866 --> 00:09:54,666 what voter in America is gonna say, 237 00:09:54,666 --> 00:09:56,500 "I didn't vote for him last time, 238 00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:59,100 but, you know, since he's been found guilty of this felony 239 00:09:59,100 --> 00:10:02,566 for paying off the porn star he was schtupping 240 00:10:02,566 --> 00:10:05,100 while his wife was at home nursing, 241 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:07,866 I think I'm gonna go with him now." 242 00:10:09,033 --> 00:10:10,800 I just don't see- - Well, that's actually 243 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,166 a really interesting question. 244 00:10:12,166 --> 00:10:15,966 Where are the new votes for him in this scenario? 245 00:10:15,966 --> 00:10:17,700 This is why you say, and I happen to agree with you, 246 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:19,700 in all likelihood, he loses the popular vote again, 247 00:10:19,700 --> 00:10:22,733 where are the new votes for him, under these circumstances? 248 00:10:22,733 --> 00:10:25,766 - I don't see it except that their strategy is 249 00:10:25,766 --> 00:10:29,466 that there're still un-mined, angry, 250 00:10:29,466 --> 00:10:32,200 White, rural voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania- 251 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:33,600 - Who didn't vote last time. - Right. 252 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,733 But who could be- - Persuaded to vote 253 00:10:35,733 --> 00:10:37,233 - Yes. 254 00:10:37,233 --> 00:10:38,600 - Sir. 255 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,466 - This week, Donald Trump 256 00:10:40,466 --> 00:10:45,100 is selling a Bible to pay off a porn star. 257 00:10:46,866 --> 00:10:49,600 - [Charlie] You think that's problematic? 258 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,100 (audience laughs) 259 00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:54,000 - Is this gonna make a difference to evangelicals 260 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,533 and women in your opinion? 261 00:10:55,533 --> 00:10:56,933 - Yeah, I wonder about that. 262 00:10:56,933 --> 00:10:58,466 I mean, we know what the evangelical vote has done. 263 00:10:58,466 --> 00:11:02,333 They've forgiven him his sins, right? 264 00:11:02,333 --> 00:11:03,700 Yeah. 265 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:05,233 - If they're gonna forgive him all the other stuff, 266 00:11:05,233 --> 00:11:07,133 they're gonna forgive him this, you know? 267 00:11:07,133 --> 00:11:09,466 I mean, it is one of those eye-rolling moments 268 00:11:09,466 --> 00:11:13,566 where it was so cynical that he's hawking a 60, 269 00:11:13,566 --> 00:11:15,300 I mean, he's a billionaire, right, 270 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:18,100 and he wants people to read the word of God. 271 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:20,033 He could give away the Bibles, right? 272 00:11:20,033 --> 00:11:21,200 I mean, he could donate them. 273 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,400 Instead, he's selling $60 Bibles 274 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,400 and you know the money is gonna go for the legal fees. 275 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,833 But again, it's 2024, 276 00:11:29,833 --> 00:11:34,500 the normal laws of political gravity don't apply, right? 277 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:38,333 I mean, and I have to say that I have worked on this 278 00:11:38,333 --> 00:11:41,100 as hard as almost anything, trying to figure out 279 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:44,033 the whole Christian evangelical flip flop. 280 00:11:44,033 --> 00:11:46,833 This was the one thing, after the election, 281 00:11:46,833 --> 00:11:49,700 and I was writing a book, "How the Right Lost its Mind," 282 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:52,500 and the most difficult chapter for me was, 283 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:56,333 explain this to me, how do you have evangelical Christians, 284 00:11:56,333 --> 00:12:00,500 the people who, back in the 1990s, were the most intensely, 285 00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:03,733 would, by the largest margins say 286 00:12:03,733 --> 00:12:06,200 that personal character really mattered. 287 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,500 Remember back during the Clinton years, 288 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:12,033 when character mattered, they were off the charts. 289 00:12:12,033 --> 00:12:15,266 By 2016, no demographic group had switched 290 00:12:15,266 --> 00:12:17,166 as radically as evangelical Christians 291 00:12:17,166 --> 00:12:19,500 in saying that personal character didn't matter. 292 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:23,233 And so I spent time talking to people like Dr. Russell Moore 293 00:12:23,233 --> 00:12:25,666 and David French, and my friend, Peter Waner, 294 00:12:25,666 --> 00:12:27,866 you know, people who were in that world 295 00:12:27,866 --> 00:12:30,300 and they struggled with it as well. 296 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:33,666 And the power of rationalization, 297 00:12:33,666 --> 00:12:35,266 the power of, you know, convincing, 298 00:12:35,266 --> 00:12:39,733 well, we don't want a pastor, we just want a champion, 299 00:12:39,733 --> 00:12:42,300 he will be the defender of our faith, 300 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:44,766 has been incredibly powerful. 301 00:12:44,766 --> 00:12:47,800 And I still have trouble understanding because 302 00:12:49,266 --> 00:12:51,733 their understanding of what it means to be a Christian 303 00:12:52,966 --> 00:12:54,300 is very different than my understanding 304 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:56,000 of what it means to be a Christian. 305 00:12:59,633 --> 00:13:01,800 At this point, it appears to be unshakeable. 306 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,400 And I will say that this is going back to the thing 307 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,433 about they're not coming after me, they're coming after you. 308 00:13:07,433 --> 00:13:11,400 He has, with his lizard brain, understood 309 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,100 that Christians have decided they are an oppressed minority. 310 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:19,633 And I do remember making the argument, back in 2016, 311 00:13:19,633 --> 00:13:22,433 that I wish that people on the left 312 00:13:22,433 --> 00:13:24,133 were more sensitive to how powerful 313 00:13:24,133 --> 00:13:26,466 the issue of religious liberty was, 314 00:13:26,466 --> 00:13:28,866 that if you take the win, 315 00:13:28,866 --> 00:13:31,300 just take the win on a lot of these issues, 316 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:36,233 when you try to roll over conscience clause, 317 00:13:36,233 --> 00:13:39,766 or insist that everyone believe what you believe, 318 00:13:39,766 --> 00:13:43,266 then you're gonna create more problems, 319 00:13:43,266 --> 00:13:45,266 and he's exploited that. 320 00:13:45,266 --> 00:13:48,933 He has exploited that because, so for example, 321 00:13:48,933 --> 00:13:52,833 if we were an evangelical group and somebody was saying, 322 00:13:52,833 --> 00:13:55,066 "Okay, it's not enough that they 323 00:13:55,066 --> 00:13:57,100 have now legalized gay marriage, 324 00:13:58,466 --> 00:14:00,866 they're gonna force your church to perform gay marriage, 325 00:14:00,866 --> 00:14:02,433 they're gonna force you to do it." 326 00:14:02,433 --> 00:14:04,866 And everybody in the room would nod their head saying, 327 00:14:04,866 --> 00:14:06,666 "Yeah, they're coming for us. 328 00:14:06,666 --> 00:14:08,766 They think that we're bigots if we don't believe it, 329 00:14:08,766 --> 00:14:10,633 and they're gonna make us do that." 330 00:14:10,633 --> 00:14:13,866 Now, that's not true, but it plays. 331 00:14:13,866 --> 00:14:15,600 - And in fact, members of the gay and lesbian community 332 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:16,633 would tell you they don't particularly 333 00:14:16,633 --> 00:14:18,200 wanna be married by people 334 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,600 who are hostile to the idea of marrying them anyway, right? 335 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,666 I mean, the whole thing is almost, in some ways, 336 00:14:21,666 --> 00:14:25,100 a nothing burger, except it becomes a something burger 337 00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:27,300 when you weaponize it. - Right. 338 00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:29,266 - Right? And it was weaponized. 339 00:14:29,266 --> 00:14:32,900 - Right, and this is something 340 00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:35,600 that I think people need to keep in mind, that, 341 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,500 and I was saying that if I show contempt for you, 342 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:40,866 you're not gonna listen to my ideas about school choice. 343 00:14:40,866 --> 00:14:44,433 If you say to an entire, you know, 344 00:14:44,433 --> 00:14:47,566 tens of millions of people and their church, 345 00:14:47,566 --> 00:14:50,966 that your belief about marriage 346 00:14:50,966 --> 00:14:55,166 is not just wrong in our diverse, tolerant culture, 347 00:14:55,166 --> 00:14:56,600 but that if you adhere to this, 348 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,766 you are a bigot, and that we must use 349 00:14:59,766 --> 00:15:01,900 the power of the government to punish you, 350 00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:04,300 you've created a completely different dynamic. 351 00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:07,500 So the question is, are we going to be tolerant and diverse, 352 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:10,633 or are we going to impose a monoculture? 353 00:15:10,633 --> 00:15:13,200 Now, the one thing that I've said, 354 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,500 because for those you wondering, 355 00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:17,733 are you still a conservative? 356 00:15:17,733 --> 00:15:19,400 I don't know what the word means, 357 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:23,433 but I do worry about illiberalism. 358 00:15:23,433 --> 00:15:25,833 I mean, there is illiberalism on the left, 359 00:15:26,933 --> 00:15:28,933 and there's illiberalism on the right. 360 00:15:28,933 --> 00:15:31,800 The illiberalism on the right, represented by Donald Trump, 361 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,533 is the immediate emergency, it is the heart attack. 362 00:15:36,533 --> 00:15:38,800 The illiberalism on the left is serious, 363 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,266 but we need to deal with the way we would deal with 364 00:15:41,266 --> 00:15:44,733 slow growing cancer versus heart attack right now. 365 00:15:44,733 --> 00:15:46,900 You deal with the heart attack right now, 366 00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:49,733 but don't pretend that there's not a problem. 367 00:15:49,733 --> 00:15:53,433 That my concern over the next several decades 368 00:15:53,433 --> 00:15:57,166 is that we're finding out that the forces of liberalism, 369 00:15:57,166 --> 00:15:58,833 liberal, constitutional democracy, 370 00:15:58,833 --> 00:16:01,200 are much more fragile than we thought. 371 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,800 And they could face a two-front attack, 372 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,566 and we need to be prepared for both of them. 373 00:16:07,566 --> 00:16:08,800 But right now, there's no question 374 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,800 what the greater emergency is. 375 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:13,400 - Jordan, are we okay? 376 00:16:14,733 --> 00:16:16,133 Okay. 377 00:16:16,133 --> 00:16:18,366 We have any more? - Two more. 378 00:16:18,366 --> 00:16:19,966 - Okay, we'll just take two more, that's fine, sir. 379 00:16:19,966 --> 00:16:21,533 - This will be quick. - Yes. 380 00:16:21,533 --> 00:16:23,300 - This was really for Judy Woodruff, 381 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:26,400 but we didn't have time to ask her any questions. 382 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,666 - [Charlie] I'll tell you what she would say. 383 00:16:28,666 --> 00:16:29,566 - [Host] Okay, go ahead, yeah. 384 00:16:29,566 --> 00:16:31,000 - But you had talked about 385 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,000 the Dan Quale, Lloyd Benson debate, and- 386 00:16:37,433 --> 00:16:38,700 - Did you remember she had moderated that? I had forgotten. 387 00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:40,000 - I had forgotten that. - I had forgotten that. 388 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,100 - I remember the debate though. 389 00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:42,633 - Oh, of course. 390 00:16:42,633 --> 00:16:44,233 - [Audience Member] And when they mentioned Jack Kennedy, 391 00:16:44,233 --> 00:16:47,666 she said the crowd exploded. - Right. 392 00:16:47,666 --> 00:16:49,533 - There's gonna be a debate, apparently, 393 00:16:49,533 --> 00:16:52,133 with Trump and Biden. 394 00:16:52,133 --> 00:16:53,500 - [Charlie] Well, that's an interesting question. 395 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:56,433 - Right, but what bothers me about the debate, 396 00:16:56,433 --> 00:16:57,966 and I'd just like to know your opinion, 397 00:16:57,966 --> 00:17:02,966 is you have Trump's side over here, Biden's side here, 398 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,266 every time they say anything, it explodes. 399 00:17:07,266 --> 00:17:09,300 And it bothers me 400 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:12,766 because I'd like to hear what they have to say 401 00:17:12,766 --> 00:17:14,333 and then get that through. 402 00:17:14,333 --> 00:17:18,066 Do you think it'll ever stop where they won't have a crowd? 403 00:17:18,066 --> 00:17:20,100 Or if you do have a crowd, 404 00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:23,266 where you won't even hear them yell and scream, 405 00:17:23,266 --> 00:17:25,133 - Did they have a crowd in 2020? 406 00:17:25,133 --> 00:17:26,400 - I don't remember, I mean, look, 407 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,966 people don't obey rules, period, right? 408 00:17:27,966 --> 00:17:29,533 Like, even if they say, "You can only come in, 409 00:17:29,533 --> 00:17:31,866 but you have to be quiet," people aren't quiet anyway. 410 00:17:31,866 --> 00:17:34,166 - Okay, can I turn this around on you? 411 00:17:34,166 --> 00:17:36,133 Okay because I was actually thinking of this 412 00:17:36,133 --> 00:17:37,133 on the plane coming here today. 413 00:17:38,433 --> 00:17:40,566 That I have some contrarian ideas about this. 414 00:17:40,566 --> 00:17:42,200 So, for example, one of the things 415 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,600 that I would suggest to the media is 416 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,533 if you acknowledge this is not a normal year, 417 00:17:49,533 --> 00:17:51,000 I'm gonna get to this in a second, 418 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,100 why would you cover the political conventions 419 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:54,833 as if they actually matter? 420 00:17:54,833 --> 00:17:57,900 You know, I mean the Republican convention 421 00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:00,833 is in my hometown in Milwaukee, which is like, screw me. 422 00:18:00,833 --> 00:18:03,366 I mean, it's just all these Trump-ees coming, 423 00:18:03,366 --> 00:18:05,600 but I mean, what is the news value of this? 424 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,500 Why would you devote three days of live coverage 425 00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:11,133 to what's basically an infomercial? 426 00:18:11,133 --> 00:18:14,100 And then I started thinking about the debate. 427 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:16,233 And I guess my default setting is, 428 00:18:16,233 --> 00:18:17,933 of course debates are good, you know, 429 00:18:17,933 --> 00:18:19,800 Lincoln, Douglas, all of these great moments, 430 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,800 you know, Kennedy, Nixon, 431 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,333 but there's a case that can be made, 432 00:18:25,566 --> 00:18:27,333 and all the networks are basically saying, 433 00:18:27,333 --> 00:18:30,700 we want you to have a debate, commit to debates. 434 00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:34,733 But the debate is just the show, it's not the substance. 435 00:18:34,733 --> 00:18:38,566 We will not be smarter after that debate, you know, 436 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,866 and we know how it will play out. 437 00:18:41,866 --> 00:18:43,866 And there is a school of thought that says, 438 00:18:43,866 --> 00:18:46,466 if you want to say this is not normal, 439 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,766 do not dignify Donald Trump with being on the stage. 440 00:18:54,833 --> 00:18:56,300 (audience applauds) 441 00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:58,666 Okay, so I mean, just can I just ask this? 442 00:18:58,666 --> 00:19:02,966 So I'm toying with the idea of saying, 443 00:19:02,966 --> 00:19:04,433 no, I don't want a debate. 444 00:19:04,433 --> 00:19:05,933 I don't wanna cover the conventions 445 00:19:05,933 --> 00:19:07,200 and I don't want a debate 446 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,366 because how do we say this is not normal 447 00:19:09,366 --> 00:19:10,833 in that particular way? 448 00:19:10,833 --> 00:19:14,266 All of my instincts tell me we should have a debate. 449 00:19:14,266 --> 00:19:17,433 It seems like that ritual of democracy, 450 00:19:17,433 --> 00:19:19,666 but maybe it's not a good idea this year. 451 00:19:19,666 --> 00:19:20,966 So how many people think 452 00:19:20,966 --> 00:19:23,966 that Joe Biden should debate Donald Trump? 453 00:19:23,966 --> 00:19:26,066 How many think he should say, "Screw you?" 454 00:19:27,566 --> 00:19:28,933 (audience applauds) 455 00:19:28,933 --> 00:19:30,900 - Well, look, the argument from the Trump side 456 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:34,166 may be, "You have to debate me," 457 00:19:34,166 --> 00:19:37,100 and the response should be, "Nikki Haley would like a word." 458 00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:38,600 - Yeah. - Right? 459 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,833 I mean, you basically told us what you think 460 00:19:40,833 --> 00:19:42,700 of the responsibility to debate 461 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:46,100 during the Republican primary when you didn't. 462 00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:48,866 No backsies. - Well this, I think- 463 00:19:48,866 --> 00:19:50,800 - Right, that could be one answer. 464 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,233 - That will be one of the answers. 465 00:19:52,233 --> 00:19:53,933 I mean, there's a case that could be made 466 00:19:53,933 --> 00:19:56,600 that, first of all, I mean the important thing 467 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,600 is that, look, if I'm Trump, I'm gonna try to say, 468 00:20:03,066 --> 00:20:04,700 "You're afraid to debate me, you're old," and everything. 469 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:06,400 So I mean, there's a risk to this, 470 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,066 there's a political risk to this, 471 00:20:08,066 --> 00:20:12,533 but there's a substantive, I think a case can be made 472 00:20:12,533 --> 00:20:15,133 that let's not pretend that the show 473 00:20:15,133 --> 00:20:16,900 is what this election is about- 474 00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:18,366 - Is the substance. - Because- 475 00:20:18,366 --> 00:20:19,500 - [Host] Right, I agree. Ma'am. 476 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:21,366 - Yeah, do you remember the last debate 477 00:20:21,366 --> 00:20:24,033 that was crazy between the two of 'em? 478 00:20:24,033 --> 00:20:26,766 - Yes right. - My question, I mean, 479 00:20:26,766 --> 00:20:28,800 all these issues are very interesting, 480 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,166 and I love you Charlie. 481 00:20:30,166 --> 00:20:32,000 I listened to you, before work, all the time, 482 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,133 and when I heard you were going off, 483 00:20:34,133 --> 00:20:35,866 it was really upsetting to me, 484 00:20:35,866 --> 00:20:39,666 but I do like Tim Miller, but nobody's like you. 485 00:20:39,666 --> 00:20:42,633 Okay, having said that, I'd like to ask you, 486 00:20:42,633 --> 00:20:45,933 what's your opinion about the electoral college? 487 00:20:45,933 --> 00:20:48,166 And that's off all these issues, I realize, 488 00:20:48,166 --> 00:20:51,266 but it's so important to our democracy, 489 00:20:51,266 --> 00:20:53,633 and how can we ever get rid of it? 490 00:20:53,633 --> 00:20:55,533 I mean, I know the senators 491 00:20:55,533 --> 00:20:57,633 used to be elected by the legislatures, 492 00:20:57,633 --> 00:20:59,100 and they passed an amendment, 493 00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:02,033 and now we directly elect senators. 494 00:21:02,033 --> 00:21:06,033 So why can't we change the Constitution 495 00:21:06,033 --> 00:21:08,200 and get rid of electoral college? 496 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,700 Or maybe it's not even in the Constitution, I'm not sure. 497 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:12,066 - Oh it is. - No, and you'd need 498 00:21:12,066 --> 00:21:14,600 38 states, is that right, is there some number to- 499 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:15,733 - Yeah,- - I mean, 500 00:21:15,733 --> 00:21:17,533 do you ever foresee that happening? 501 00:21:17,533 --> 00:21:18,800 - No. 502 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,000 - No, huh? - No, I mean, 503 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,100 and clearly it no longer represents 504 00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:25,000 the reality of the American political- 505 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,466 - Six out of seven elections, right? 506 00:21:26,466 --> 00:21:29,100 - Yeah, I mean, and that of course, 507 00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:32,100 it was not a problem up until then. 508 00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:35,100 I mean, there was a point, I'm trying to remember, you know, 509 00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:37,433 up until 2000, it pretty much never happened. 510 00:21:37,433 --> 00:21:39,900 - No no, but literally it's been, 511 00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,466 except for Obama beating Romney, 512 00:21:42,466 --> 00:21:47,333 I believe every election since Bush and Gore, 513 00:21:48,466 --> 00:21:50,200 I believe this is right, 514 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:51,700 the popular vote and the electoral vote have been different. 515 00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:53,033 I think that's right. 516 00:21:53,033 --> 00:21:56,733 - I think Bush over- - No, Bush over Kerry- 517 00:21:56,733 --> 00:21:58,600 - Bush over Kerry- - No, or maybe 518 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,100 it was Bush over Kerry, in fact. 519 00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:02,733 - No, but look, it's just one of those things. 520 00:22:02,733 --> 00:22:04,366 I don't think it's gonna happen 521 00:22:04,366 --> 00:22:06,533 because it would require the consent 522 00:22:06,533 --> 00:22:09,400 of the states that rely upon it. 523 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,266 So it would be great to have it gone, but there's- 524 00:22:12,266 --> 00:22:14,800 - If you're Montana, why do you wanna give up the fact 525 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,766 that you're equal to everybody else in this, 526 00:22:16,766 --> 00:22:18,300 as opposed to simply saying 527 00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,533 you're million population is diminished in its influence. 528 00:22:21,533 --> 00:22:24,133 - Yeah, I mean, on the other hand, I mean, look, 529 00:22:24,133 --> 00:22:27,000 the case for it is, I think, overwhelming 530 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,466 because the fact that we're about to have 531 00:22:29,466 --> 00:22:31,666 this consequential election, 532 00:22:31,666 --> 00:22:34,800 and only six states really count, 533 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,800 that if I live in 44 states, basically, it doesn't matter. 534 00:22:43,233 --> 00:22:45,666 I mean, that's gotta be frustrating 535 00:22:45,666 --> 00:22:47,400 for voters on both sides, 536 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,800 but I just don't see the dynamic. 537 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,900 - [Audience Member] It only takes 3/4ths of the state. 538 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:52,933 - That's 3/4ths of the state. 539 00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:56,966 - [Audience Member] So all the other states would want that, 540 00:22:56,966 --> 00:22:58,600 wouldn't they? - No. 541 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,233 Well- - Not sure, not sure. 542 00:23:00,233 --> 00:23:03,766 Okay, before we go, we're gonna do the six before we go. 543 00:23:03,766 --> 00:23:04,800 - Okay. - Gut check us. 544 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,333 - [Charlie] Okay. 545 00:23:06,333 --> 00:23:08,400 - Who's gonna win the six states, Michigan, gut check. 546 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,666 - I think Biden wins. - Biden wins. 547 00:23:09,666 --> 00:23:11,066 Georgia. 548 00:23:11,066 --> 00:23:12,500 - I don't know. - Don't know. 549 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:14,400 Wisconsin, you know Wisconsin better than anybody. 550 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,933 - I think Biden still wins. 551 00:23:15,933 --> 00:23:18,766 - Even though now that liberal Supreme Court justice 552 00:23:18,766 --> 00:23:20,633 just announced she's gonna step down 553 00:23:20,633 --> 00:23:23,700 and Republicans are gonna be motivated to turn out to vote. 554 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:25,033 - That's not 'til 2023. 555 00:23:25,033 --> 00:23:27,400 - So it doesn't make a difference now, 2025? 556 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:28,566 - 2025, I'm sorry, yes. 557 00:23:28,566 --> 00:23:30,833 - So you still think, okay, Nevada. 558 00:23:32,933 --> 00:23:37,200 - That one could flip, I'm worried about Nevada. 559 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,600 I think that could be Trump. 560 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,533 - Arizona. 561 00:23:40,533 --> 00:23:41,966 - I think that's gonna be Biden. 562 00:23:41,966 --> 00:23:43,933 - Well, you know, I would've worried about Arizona 563 00:23:43,933 --> 00:23:45,666 if I were the Biden people, until this week. 564 00:23:45,666 --> 00:23:47,233 - Yeah, this week. 565 00:23:47,233 --> 00:23:49,266 - I mean, if Carrie Lake is walking away from that thing, 566 00:23:49,266 --> 00:23:50,466 you know, something. 567 00:23:50,466 --> 00:23:52,500 Okay, the big kahuna, Pennsylvania. 568 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:53,900 - I think Biden wins Pennsylvania. 569 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,066 - You do? Do you think Bob Casey gets reelected? 570 00:23:56,066 --> 00:23:57,600 - Yes. - To the Senate? 571 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:58,500 - Yeah. - Wow, okay. 572 00:23:58,500 --> 00:23:59,833 Well you know what, 573 00:23:59,833 --> 00:24:00,866 there's the math on the election right there. 574 00:24:00,866 --> 00:24:02,233 You didn't answer the question 575 00:24:02,233 --> 00:24:03,200 when I asked you at the beginning. 576 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,533 You just answered it now. 577 00:24:04,533 --> 00:24:06,633 - Well you didn't ask about North Carolina. 578 00:24:07,933 --> 00:24:09,366 - Well, Biden could afford to lose North Carolina. 579 00:24:09,366 --> 00:24:11,000 He lost it last time. 580 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,366 - Yeah. 581 00:24:12,366 --> 00:24:15,200 No, so I still think that he's in a good position 582 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,866 to win those states, but if he loses the swing states, 583 00:24:18,866 --> 00:24:20,066 I mean there's weird things 584 00:24:20,066 --> 00:24:21,566 like what they're doing in Nebraska. 585 00:24:21,566 --> 00:24:23,366 - Right, but I thought the legislature didn't support that. 586 00:24:23,366 --> 00:24:25,400 - Right, but that doesn't mean they're done. 587 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,433 - Yeah yeah, it's never over, a lot of game left. 588 00:24:28,433 --> 00:24:30,866 - I mean, there is a game this out and make yourself crazy, 589 00:24:30,866 --> 00:24:33,000 and there is a scenario in which 590 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,766 Joe Biden gets 269 electoral votes. 591 00:24:35,766 --> 00:24:37,400 - And it goes to the house. 592 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,666 - Well, it could. - Could. 593 00:24:39,666 --> 00:24:40,866 - And then that's Trump. 594 00:24:42,266 --> 00:24:43,633 - I'm gonna take an Ambien, I think, 595 00:24:43,633 --> 00:24:45,200 and then, until after the election. 596 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,733 All right look, give Charlie Sykes a big hand, well great. 597 00:24:47,733 --> 00:24:49,400 All right, thank you guys, see you soon.