WEBVTT 00:01.333 --> 00:02.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Narrator] Support for "Overheard With Evan Smith" 00:02.266 --> 00:03.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% comes from HillCo Partners, 00:03.500 --> 00:05.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a Texas government affairs consultancy, 00:05.666 --> 00:08.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Claire and Carl Stuart, Christine and Philip Dial, 00:08.833 --> 00:11.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and the Eller Group specializing in crisis management, 00:11.466 --> 00:13.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% litigation and public affairs communication. 00:13.800 --> 00:15.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Ellergroup.com. 00:15.600 --> 00:16.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - I'm Evan Smith. 00:16.866 --> 00:20.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% She's a senior contributing editor at MSNBC, 00:20.066 --> 00:22.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a former Washington Post opinion columnist, 00:22.533 --> 00:26.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and the former co-host of NPR's "All Things Considered." 00:26.233 --> 00:28.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Her most recent book, "Our Hidden Conversations: 00:28.866 --> 00:32.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "What Americans Really Think About Race and Identity," 00:32.400 --> 00:34.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is a New York Times bestseller. 00:34.533 --> 00:36.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% She's Michele Norris. 00:36.333 --> 00:37.366 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% This is "Overheard." 00:37.366 --> 00:38.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (lively music) 00:38.700 --> 00:41.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% A platform and a voice is a powerful thing. 00:41.166 --> 00:42.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% (audience applauding) 00:42.466 --> 00:43.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You've really turned the conversation around 00:43.666 --> 00:45.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% about what leadership should be about. 00:45.633 --> 00:47.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Are we blowing this? 00:47.000 --> 00:48.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Are we doing the thing we shouldn't be doing 00:48.733 --> 00:50.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by giving in to the attention junkie? 00:50.766 --> 00:53.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% As an industry, we have an obligation to hold ourselves 00:53.133 --> 00:55.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to the same standards that we hold everybody else. 00:55.000 --> 00:56.033 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Two. 00:56.033 --> 00:57.366 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% This is "Overheard." 00:57.366 --> 01:01.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% (audience applauding) (audience cheering) 01:02.666 --> 01:03.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Michele Norris, welcome. 01:03.500 --> 01:04.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It's good to see you. 01:04.433 --> 01:05.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Evan, it's so good to be here. 01:05.700 --> 01:07.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We've been trying to do this for a while. 01:07.033 --> 01:08.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - We have been. Well, finally it worked out. 01:08.600 --> 01:10.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And never at a more important time than right now, right? 01:10.600 --> 01:11.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Well, the old folks say 01:11.833 --> 01:13.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "When it's right, it's right." 01:13.000 --> 01:13.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - It's right. 01:13.900 --> 01:15.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And it's the rightest time 01:15.633 --> 01:18.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to be talking about the subject of this terrific book. 01:18.166 --> 01:19.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Congratulations on it. - Thank you. 01:19.433 --> 01:20.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - And your success with it. 01:20.400 --> 01:21.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "Our Hidden Conversations. 01:22.900 --> 01:24.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This goes back to The Race Card Project. 01:24.400 --> 01:25.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I mentioned to you backstage, 01:25.566 --> 01:27.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I can't believe it's been 14 years 01:27.833 --> 01:31.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% since The Race Card Project launched, 01:31.700 --> 01:33.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and it's been extraordinary. 01:33.233 --> 01:35.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And, of course, it produced the material for this book. 01:35.733 --> 01:38.266 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% But to talk about it, remind people, if they don't know, 01:38.266 --> 01:40.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% tell them about the origins of this. 01:40.166 --> 01:42.033 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% - First of all, just thank you so much for having me here. 01:42.033 --> 01:43.600 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% - Sure. 01:43.600 --> 01:44.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% - It's great to be... Austin's one of my favorite cities. 01:44.666 --> 01:45.633 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% - [Evan] Good. 01:45.633 --> 01:46.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% - So I always look forward to... 01:46.900 --> 01:48.100 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I'm gonna see if I can get out of town 01:48.100 --> 01:49.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% without buying a pair of cowboy boots. 01:49.233 --> 01:50.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (audience chuckling) 01:50.533 --> 01:52.300 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - It happens. - It does happen. 01:52.300 --> 01:53.666 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 01:53.666 --> 01:54.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I've been to Allens more than a few times. 01:55.700 --> 01:57.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% This started with postcards. 01:57.033 --> 01:58.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 01:58.033 --> 02:00.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I wrote a book 14 years ago 02:00.366 --> 02:03.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% called "The Grace of Silence," 02:03.333 --> 02:06.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and it was about my family's complex racial legacy. 02:07.633 --> 02:09.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I originally was planning to write a book 02:09.233 --> 02:11.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% about what Americans talk and think about race at that time. 02:11.400 --> 02:13.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But in the run up to, 02:13.700 --> 02:15.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then after the election to Barack Obama, 02:15.766 --> 02:19.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the older people in my family, older African Americans, 02:19.133 --> 02:21.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% started shedding stories. 02:21.266 --> 02:24.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And I realized I had an interesting story tell in my family. 02:24.366 --> 02:26.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And when I went out in the world, I was on a sabbatical, 02:26.900 --> 02:31.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I was on a 35-city book tour, on sabbatical from NPR. 02:31.500 --> 02:34.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I knew I was gonna be going out into the world talking 02:34.466 --> 02:35.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% about race because my book 02:35.866 --> 02:38.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% was about my family's very complex racial legacy. 02:38.533 --> 02:41.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And Evan, I was concerned 02:41.100 --> 02:43.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because I had been conditioned to think 02:43.000 --> 02:45.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that no one wanted to talk about race. 02:45.233 --> 02:47.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I thought, "What can I do to engage people?" 02:47.700 --> 02:49.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Because it was a chance for me to get out of the studio 02:49.500 --> 02:50.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and be out in the world. 02:50.733 --> 02:51.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I actually wanted to talk to people 02:51.666 --> 02:53.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% while I was on book tour. 02:53.000 --> 02:55.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I wanted a vehicle to create conversation. 02:55.333 --> 02:56.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's where the postcards came in. 02:56.933 --> 02:58.233 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 02:58.233 --> 03:00.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I went and created postcards and they said, 03:00.800 --> 03:02.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Race. Your thoughts. 03:02.333 --> 03:03.366 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Please send." 03:03.366 --> 03:04.300 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Right. 03:04.300 --> 03:06.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - And I printed 200 of them 03:06.200 --> 03:09.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at a local Kinko's in Washington, D.C. 03:09.566 --> 03:10.400 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 03:10.400 --> 03:11.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - And distributed them. 03:11.733 --> 03:13.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I didn't know what would come back to me. 03:13.600 --> 03:14.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, in fact, I think the hack here, 03:14.933 --> 03:17.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the really interesting twist is it was race. 03:18.666 --> 03:20.300 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Six words. - Six words. 03:20.300 --> 03:21.233 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Right? - Yes. 03:21.233 --> 03:22.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I left out that important piece. 03:22.200 --> 03:23.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Right, race. Your thoughts. 03:23.300 --> 03:25.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Six words, please send. 03:25.033 --> 03:26.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So you limited people to six words. 03:26.700 --> 03:30.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And how extraordinary to see the response, 03:30.266 --> 03:31.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and how creative people were, 03:31.833 --> 03:34.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and how meaningful the responses were limited 03:34.400 --> 03:36.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to just six words. 03:36.000 --> 03:36.833 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. - Right. Yeah. 03:36.833 --> 03:38.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Yeah, and I thought 03:38.233 --> 03:39.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because it's postcard, you didn't have much time. 03:39.600 --> 03:44.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And also, I figured if I asked for a sentence... 03:44.200 --> 03:45.466 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 03:45.466 --> 03:46.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - People would give me a whole paragraph 03:46.666 --> 03:48.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and say it was a sentence. 03:48.066 --> 03:49.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And if I asked for a paragraph, oh boy, that's too much. 03:49.666 --> 03:50.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I don't wanna do that. 03:50.766 --> 03:52.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So six words just seemed to work. 03:52.566 --> 03:56.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And of the 200 cards we printed, about 30% came back. 03:56.300 --> 03:57.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And then I was off to the races, 03:57.900 --> 03:59.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I got my publisher to print cards. 03:59.233 --> 04:00.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And everywhere I went, 04:00.733 --> 04:02.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I was leaving these postcards all over the place. 04:02.300 --> 04:06.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And when they started to come back, I realized, 04:06.033 --> 04:07.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% "Wait a minute. 04:07.633 --> 04:10.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Maybe people actually do wanna have this conversation." 04:10.666 --> 04:12.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You would be surprised. 04:12.166 --> 04:14.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You'd be surprised at what people can pack into six words. 04:15.800 --> 04:17.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% White not allowed to be proud. 04:19.566 --> 04:22.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Only Asian when it's... 04:22.000 --> 04:24.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm only Asian when it's convenient. 04:26.700 --> 04:29.100 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Reason I ended a sweet relationship. 04:30.000 --> 04:33.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% She called me Johnny Blue Eyes. 04:35.166 --> 04:36.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You said dirt, so I scrubbed. 04:38.400 --> 04:39.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Really deep sentence. 04:39.800 --> 04:43.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Yeah, I mean, amazing because you might not know 04:43.400 --> 04:45.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or you might not think on the front end of this 04:45.066 --> 04:46.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that people would be as thoughtful. 04:46.433 --> 04:48.000 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. - Right? 04:48.000 --> 04:49.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But people really rose to the challenge here, didn't they? 04:49.500 --> 04:50.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - They did. 04:50.766 --> 04:52.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - You've gotten back more than half a million 04:52.700 --> 04:54.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of these cards over time? 04:54.033 --> 04:55.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Well, when we published the book, 04:55.866 --> 04:57.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% we were at a half a million, 04:57.333 --> 04:59.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and because of the publicity around the book, 04:59.700 --> 05:01.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and frankly, the times we're living in. 05:01.400 --> 05:02.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 05:02.366 --> 05:04.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - We're well over 700,000 now. 05:04.600 --> 05:07.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And they come from all 50 states. 05:07.266 --> 05:08.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We have submissions that have come in 05:08.766 --> 05:10.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% from more than 100 countries. 05:10.766 --> 05:12.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Amazing. 05:12.033 --> 05:14.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And I often don't know how people find us, 05:14.266 --> 05:16.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% particularly overseas. 05:16.233 --> 05:17.566 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 05:17.566 --> 05:18.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And they're writing sometimes about race, 05:18.833 --> 05:20.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and their thoughts about race in America. 05:20.233 --> 05:21.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And frankly, a lot of people are writing in, 05:21.800 --> 05:23.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and they're looking at America like, "Y'all okay right now? 05:23.866 --> 05:25.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% (audience chuckling) You know? 05:25.033 --> 05:26.366 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. - What's going on over there? 05:26.366 --> 05:27.300 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Right. 05:27.300 --> 05:29.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - But sometimes they're writing 05:29.033 --> 05:30.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% through their own identity frame, 05:30.433 --> 05:35.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and race is not the word that's used around the world 05:35.366 --> 05:37.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but they will talk about identity 05:37.133 --> 05:39.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% through their own frame, and whatever it means. 05:39.000 --> 05:41.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And people divide themselves all over the place 05:41.666 --> 05:46.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% for all kinds of reasons: religion, class, geography. 05:46.266 --> 05:49.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so people write about their experiences. 05:49.500 --> 05:51.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And I talk about race and identity. 05:51.433 --> 05:54.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When I first did this, I was focusing mainly on race. 05:54.000 --> 05:54.933 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 05:54.933 --> 05:56.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I started talking about race, 05:56.100 --> 05:57.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and identity for a couple reasons 05:57.633 --> 06:02.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because part of it was trying to widen the aperture 06:04.066 --> 06:08.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because I realized when you talk about race in America, 06:08.233 --> 06:12.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% there is a presumption that is a conversation about people 06:12.166 --> 06:13.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of color, and usually Black Americans. 06:13.733 --> 06:15.100 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 06:15.100 --> 06:17.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - So that's a conversation about those people. 06:17.266 --> 06:19.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When I started to talk about identity, 06:19.800 --> 06:22.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we just saw a wider pool of people participate 06:22.966 --> 06:24.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because everybody has an identity. 06:24.700 --> 06:26.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, the conversation has also changed. 06:28.066 --> 06:30.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This whole idea of the othering of America 06:30.133 --> 06:32.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% has also really shifted from being a conversation 06:32.933 --> 06:35.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% about race to being conversation about a lot more. 06:35.000 --> 06:36.466 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 06:36.466 --> 06:37.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Right, so it's a natural evolution of the project. 06:37.866 --> 06:39.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And there's someone who is... 06:39.900 --> 06:41.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We get cards from people 06:41.466 --> 06:43.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who say their identity frame is they were in the military. 06:43.200 --> 06:44.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It doesn't matter what color they are 06:44.366 --> 06:45.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% when they come back and reenter. 06:45.300 --> 06:46.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - That's how they define it. 06:46.733 --> 06:48.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - They realize that they're in a different cohort 06:48.300 --> 06:49.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% just because they're military service. 06:49.933 --> 06:51.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - What's interesting to me as I think about this, 06:51.266 --> 06:52.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a couple of things. 06:52.566 --> 06:55.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% First of all, that for people, for some people, 06:55.266 --> 06:56.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% let's say for some people, 06:58.066 --> 07:01.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the conversation around race and identity is a home game. 07:01.166 --> 07:03.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And for some people, it's an away game. 07:03.433 --> 07:05.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - That's a really interesting way to put it. 07:05.133 --> 07:07.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I've always thought for some people, they're on the field, 07:07.066 --> 07:08.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and other people are spectators. 07:08.566 --> 07:11.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - We're in a similar space. 07:11.133 --> 07:13.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% For some people, this is a conversation 07:13.033 --> 07:15.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that they come to willingly, naturally, comfortably. 07:15.566 --> 07:18.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% For some people, it's really the opposite of that. 07:18.233 --> 07:21.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And they feel put upon to be put in a situation 07:21.300 --> 07:22.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where they have to have an honest conversation. 07:22.833 --> 07:24.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And I think that that's why this worked 07:24.733 --> 07:26.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because it started with postcards, 07:26.400 --> 07:30.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and then the submissions were so interesting that we wanted 07:30.066 --> 07:31.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to give them back to people. 07:31.166 --> 07:32.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So I created a website 07:32.833 --> 07:35.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and started to collect submissions digitally. 07:35.900 --> 07:38.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then we added on the form, "Anything else?" 07:38.433 --> 07:39.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So you could explain where your six words come from. 07:39.900 --> 07:42.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Made it as easy as possible. 07:42.066 --> 07:43.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - But also, it gave people the chance 07:43.366 --> 07:44.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to explain why they chose their six words. 07:44.766 --> 07:46.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. 07:46.066 --> 07:47.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And that's when things got really interesting 07:47.300 --> 07:48.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and people started giving us back stories. 07:48.200 --> 07:49.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Well, in fact, the book, 07:49.700 --> 07:51.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so just people are aware if they've not already bought 07:51.200 --> 07:52.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% or read this book, 07:52.700 --> 07:55.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this book is kind of like an extension of this project. 07:55.433 --> 07:59.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And it's sort of a meditation on the what, and the why, 07:59.633 --> 08:02.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the what's behind, in a lot of cases, 08:02.466 --> 08:04.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the stories that you received. 08:04.066 --> 08:06.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So the other point that occurs to me, Michele 08:06.000 --> 08:08.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is that the world is ugly and cruel. 08:08.966 --> 08:10.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The cruelty is the point 08:10.933 --> 08:11.866 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - In some cases. 08:11.866 --> 08:13.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - These days, in some cases. 08:13.366 --> 08:16.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that opening yourself up to collecting these kinds 08:16.966 --> 08:21.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of responses to your prompt, I suspect that a bunch 08:21.033 --> 08:23.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of really bad people sent really bad things. 08:23.933 --> 08:25.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm just wondering what percentage 08:25.433 --> 08:27.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of what you received was stuff that you threw out 08:27.766 --> 08:30.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because it was people seeking to be part 08:30.100 --> 08:31.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the problem rather than part the solution. 08:31.500 --> 08:33.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - We don't throw it out. We just move it over there. 08:33.733 --> 08:35.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, okay, so my words, not your words, 08:35.666 --> 08:37.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but yes, moving it out. 08:37.233 --> 08:39.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - If you go to the website. - Yeah. 08:39.000 --> 08:40.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And I hope that you do, and if you buy the book, 08:40.600 --> 08:41.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and I really hope you do that, 08:41.666 --> 08:44.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (audience chuckling) 08:44.700 --> 08:47.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I can guarantee you, you will be confronted with someone 08:47.366 --> 08:49.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that will make you uncomfortable. 08:49.200 --> 08:50.733 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 08:50.733 --> 08:52.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - You will see something in this that you'll recognize. 08:52.000 --> 08:53.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You will see something in this 08:53.533 --> 08:55.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that will make you nod your head, "Oh yeah, I recognize it." 08:55.633 --> 08:57.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But you will also be confronted with something 08:57.100 --> 08:58.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that is foreign to you, 08:58.366 --> 09:00.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and something that might make you wanna spit 09:00.366 --> 09:03.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because we're holding a mirror up to society about race. 09:03.266 --> 09:05.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And if you're holding a mirror up to society about race, 09:05.466 --> 09:07.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% frankly, you shouldn't like everything you see. 09:07.700 --> 09:09.200 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 09:09.200 --> 09:11.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And so we do get a number of submissions from people 09:11.233 --> 09:13.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% who I don't agree with. 09:13.266 --> 09:15.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Sometimes they're saying ugly things. 09:15.133 --> 09:16.300 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 09:16.300 --> 09:17.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Sometimes they're saying things 09:17.266 --> 09:18.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that are not necessarily ugly, 09:18.400 --> 09:19.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but you might think are in politics. 09:19.800 --> 09:23.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So someone says, "White privilege, earned it, enjoy it." 09:24.533 --> 09:25.866 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. - That's his point of view. 09:25.866 --> 09:27.166 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. 09:27.166 --> 09:28.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And he explains, he's in the book actually. 09:28.800 --> 09:30.100 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 09:30.100 --> 09:33.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - He explains that, in his point of view, 09:33.866 --> 09:35.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% men, and particularly white men, 09:35.166 --> 09:37.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% have made the most important contributions 09:37.866 --> 09:39.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to American life and letters. 09:39.400 --> 09:40.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yep. 09:40.766 --> 09:43.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And so white people, and white men in particular, 09:43.400 --> 09:45.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% are owed a debt of gratitude and not mockery. 09:47.233 --> 09:49.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We include that, even though I know that a lot of people, 09:49.200 --> 09:51.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Well, why does he get a seat at the table?" 09:51.500 --> 09:53.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, we'll come to this in a second, 09:53.300 --> 09:54.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but you could say that's the story 09:54.900 --> 09:56.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of the election we just had. 09:56.433 --> 09:57.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - It's the story of America. 09:57.900 --> 09:59.300 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 09:59.300 --> 10:01.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And I could also say that I don't agree with him. 10:01.833 --> 10:03.066 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 10:03.066 --> 10:04.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - We would have a yeasty conversation. 10:04.566 --> 10:05.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - But it's a valuable point of view to include, right? 10:05.933 --> 10:07.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Very valuable. 10:07.533 --> 10:08.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - If you wanna understand the fullness of this conversation. 10:08.600 --> 10:09.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - But I also understand 10:09.800 --> 10:11.333 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% how he could come to that conclusion 10:11.333 --> 10:13.566 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% 'cause he was, he was educated in America, and so was I. 10:13.566 --> 10:14.400 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% - [Evan] Right. 10:14.400 --> 10:17.100 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% - And so I am in my 60s. 10:17.100 --> 10:18.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 10:18.400 --> 10:19.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - There are a lot of things I have learned, 10:19.766 --> 10:21.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I had a very good education growing up 10:21.300 --> 10:22.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in Minneapolis, Minnesota, 10:22.366 --> 10:26.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and went to land grant schools, 10:26.233 --> 10:29.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and spent 10 years considering all things 10:29.466 --> 10:30.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% before 4 o'clock every day. 10:33.066 --> 10:34.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I know a lot about America, 10:34.833 --> 10:38.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but a lot of it I learned after I left my formal education 10:38.233 --> 10:41.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because my formal education taught me that, 10:43.266 --> 10:45.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as he said, most of the main contributors to life 10:45.433 --> 10:47.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and letters in America were men, 10:47.633 --> 10:48.900 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and usually white men. 10:48.900 --> 10:50.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Women were often not part of the story. 10:50.200 --> 10:51.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Black people were not part of the story. 10:51.333 --> 10:53.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Latinos, Asians, Indigenous people 10:53.633 --> 10:54.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% were not part of the story. 10:54.566 --> 10:56.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So I don't agree with him, 10:57.233 --> 10:58.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% but I kind of understand 10:58.500 --> 11:00.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% how we could come to that conclusion. 11:00.100 --> 11:01.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Well, again, if you wanna understand America today, 11:01.566 --> 11:03.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that's got to be a point of view you consider. 11:03.333 --> 11:04.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% In some ways, what I was asking about, 11:04.500 --> 11:05.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and what I was thinking about, 11:05.800 --> 11:08.400 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% although I'm glad that you took us to that, 11:08.400 --> 11:10.566 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% was what's happened over the last, 11:10.566 --> 11:12.500 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% pick a timeframe, 10 years, 11:12.500 --> 11:15.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is that there's a permission structure in place 11:15.833 --> 11:19.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to say all the things that the royal you, 11:19.866 --> 11:22.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% not you and me, that you think, 11:24.433 --> 11:26.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and say them out loud and say them without consequences. 11:26.966 --> 11:31.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that wasn't necessarily always the case before. 11:31.100 --> 11:32.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Well, it wasn't in recent-- 11:32.366 --> 11:33.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - But it feels like it's more the case now. 11:33.666 --> 11:36.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - In recent times, we had entered a space 11:36.300 --> 11:38.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% where there was some mediation. 11:38.300 --> 11:39.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Right. 11:39.800 --> 11:41.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Like this was permissive and this wasn't permissive. 11:41.433 --> 11:42.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And you might not wanna say that 11:42.866 --> 11:44.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because there may be some consequence about it. 11:44.800 --> 11:46.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - The wrapper's off now, right. 11:46.566 --> 11:49.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And now there is a different kind of permission structure, 11:49.100 --> 11:51.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but it's interesting in the stories that we collect, 11:51.566 --> 11:53.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% sometimes people will pull up, 11:53.000 --> 11:54.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% they'll send us a story. 11:54.666 --> 11:56.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Oh, I know you're never gonna print that." 11:56.433 --> 11:57.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Right. 11:57.400 --> 11:58.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - And then we do, we include it 11:58.866 --> 12:01.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because again, we're holding a mirror up to society. 12:01.100 --> 12:02.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It's a mirror and a window. 12:02.566 --> 12:03.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 12:03.533 --> 12:04.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - You get to see other people, 12:04.933 --> 12:06.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you get to peer over the fence, and see other people 12:06.333 --> 12:08.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but you also see America reflected back to you. 12:08.200 --> 12:09.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And you see yourself, 12:09.533 --> 12:10.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% whether you recognize yourself in it or not. 12:10.900 --> 12:12.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Right, or your community. 12:12.133 --> 12:14.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And then when we include those stories, 12:14.700 --> 12:18.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% then they're like, "Oh, I get a seat at the table too." 12:18.100 --> 12:22.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Sometimes they are engaged in a different way 12:22.633 --> 12:23.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because they thought 12:23.900 --> 12:24.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that they were gonna be barked out of the room. 12:24.933 --> 12:26.100 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 12:26.100 --> 12:28.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - And that's not necessarily the case. 12:28.233 --> 12:30.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that doesn't all often happen in other places. 12:30.766 --> 12:33.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But when you talk about this permission structure, 12:33.800 --> 12:37.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% what we're seeing right now 12:37.466 --> 12:41.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is a lot of things happening all at once. 12:41.266 --> 12:44.133 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So on one hand, America is steaming 12:44.133 --> 12:48.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% toward majority minority status. 12:48.833 --> 12:51.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It has arrived ahead of schedule in some places, 12:51.400 --> 12:52.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% lots of places in Texas. 12:52.666 --> 12:54.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Right, well, we're now more than 60% 12:54.966 --> 12:57.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of the residents of Texas are people of color. 12:57.033 --> 12:59.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We'll never go back down below 60%. 12:59.200 --> 13:00.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - It's already happened. The future has arrived. 13:00.566 --> 13:02.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - The leading indicator of other places. 13:02.833 --> 13:05.133 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - And if you're under 25, under 18, 13:05.133 --> 13:06.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% it's already happened 13:06.300 --> 13:07.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% because of birth rates in this country. 13:07.666 --> 13:08.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So that's happening. 13:08.500 --> 13:09.733 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 13:09.733 --> 13:11.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - At the same time, you've got people 13:11.000 --> 13:13.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who are pushing against diversity, equity, 13:13.733 --> 13:16.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% inclusion programs, that are trying to prevent us 13:16.466 --> 13:17.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% from learning about our history. 13:17.700 --> 13:19.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So that's happening at the same time. 13:19.600 --> 13:22.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You've got people who are invested in our divisions, 13:22.866 --> 13:25.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% deeply invested in our divisions. 13:25.033 --> 13:26.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Polarization is a business model. 13:26.933 --> 13:28.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And they treat it as a business model. 13:28.566 --> 13:31.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So they do focus groups to figure out what is the best way 13:31.333 --> 13:33.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that we can keep people polarized, 13:33.900 --> 13:35.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% usually because it benefits them 13:35.266 --> 13:36.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but they actually do focus groups. 13:36.633 --> 13:38.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So the messaging in Texas is different than it is 13:38.100 --> 13:39.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in Montana, is different than it is in Michigan, 13:39.933 --> 13:42.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and different still than it is in Louisiana. 13:42.600 --> 13:44.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% They're figuring out how to message 13:44.400 --> 13:46.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to different people to keep them apart. 13:46.233 --> 13:47.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But Evan, I know this also 13:47.733 --> 13:49.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% because of the work that we do; 13:49.000 --> 13:50.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% we used this crazy project, 13:50.800 --> 13:52.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which started on the third floor of my house... 13:52.633 --> 13:54.200 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yep. 13:54.200 --> 13:56.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Has been used in hundreds of schools around the country. 13:56.366 --> 13:59.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It has been used in businesses, 13:59.566 --> 14:02.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it has been used in the Justice Department and the military. 14:02.600 --> 14:07.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It is usually used by people who want to use the archive, 14:07.200 --> 14:09.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and these stories as a way to create a bridge 14:09.300 --> 14:11.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% so people can have a difficult conversation, 14:11.700 --> 14:13.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and reach outside their own realm, 14:13.333 --> 14:14.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and understand someone else, 14:14.733 --> 14:18.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and maybe talk to and listen across difference. 14:18.200 --> 14:19.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so because of that, 14:19.700 --> 14:21.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I know that while all these other things are going on, 14:21.233 --> 14:25.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as invested as people are in divisions, there are also a lot 14:25.700 --> 14:27.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of people who deal with the consequences of that. 14:27.933 --> 14:28.866 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 14:28.866 --> 14:32.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - So someone runs a factory 14:33.600 --> 14:35.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in a Southern state, and we have been in some 14:35.700 --> 14:36.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the reddest counties, 14:36.966 --> 14:40.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and some of the reddest states during this work. 14:40.100 --> 14:43.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% That foreman who runs that company, 14:43.000 --> 14:45.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the owner who runs that company, 14:45.100 --> 14:48.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% regardless of their politics, what they have to deal with 14:48.133 --> 14:49.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is the impacts on the productivity 14:49.866 --> 14:51.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% inside those four walls. 14:51.633 --> 14:53.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So when you are entering that space, 14:53.633 --> 14:55.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and people are coming to work in cars, 14:55.933 --> 14:59.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and pickup trucks, and EVs, 14:59.600 --> 15:04.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and they have different anthems on the bumper sticker, 15:04.200 --> 15:06.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% some of them lean right, some of them lean left, 15:06.900 --> 15:09.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% some of them are wherever, 15:09.733 --> 15:13.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% all of that political discourse out there suddenly comes 15:13.766 --> 15:15.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% into the workspace, 15:15.033 --> 15:17.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% whether it's a factory, whether it's a hospital, 15:17.000 --> 15:18.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% whether it's a campus, 15:18.233 --> 15:22.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that starts to affect the culture. 15:22.266 --> 15:23.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And it's not just the sort of, 15:23.966 --> 15:25.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I don't like the word woke, 15:25.866 --> 15:28.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so whatever you wanna use about whether people feel crunchy 15:28.566 --> 15:31.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% or whether they can say, it affects the actual work culture 15:31.500 --> 15:33.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that people aren't speaking to each other. 15:33.200 --> 15:35.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It affects the trust between people. 15:35.533 --> 15:38.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so despite the divisions, 15:38.600 --> 15:39.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I know that there are a lot of people 15:39.833 --> 15:41.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% who are trying to figure out, 15:41.500 --> 15:44.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "I run a hospital and I have to make sure that the doctors 15:44.600 --> 15:45.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and the nurses talk to each other. 15:45.866 --> 15:47.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I have to make sure that then the people 15:47.400 --> 15:48.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% who clean the building"-- 15:48.500 --> 15:49.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So you've given them a toolkit. 15:49.866 --> 15:51.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - In some cases. 15:51.266 --> 15:54.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Effectively this is about the success of entities 15:54.533 --> 15:56.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that don't necessarily think they are 15:56.733 --> 15:59.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% about hard conversations about race. 15:59.300 --> 16:00.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - What it allows people to do, 16:00.833 --> 16:02.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and we are not a panacea, 16:02.200 --> 16:04.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I'm not gonna solve your problem, 16:04.100 --> 16:06.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but we are diagnostic in that we go into spaces, 16:06.500 --> 16:08.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we allow people to have a conversation 16:08.166 --> 16:09.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% using an anthropological tool. 16:10.900 --> 16:12.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% It's easier to get people to talk 16:12.466 --> 16:14.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% about their own environment 16:14.400 --> 16:15.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or even themselves if they can talk 16:15.566 --> 16:16.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% about somebody else first. 16:16.833 --> 16:18.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Yeah. Yeah. 16:18.133 --> 16:21.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And Zora Neale Hurston was an anthropologist 16:21.300 --> 16:22.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and she was successful 16:22.500 --> 16:23.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because she would go town to town, 16:23.833 --> 16:25.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and she would take the stories from one town, 16:25.733 --> 16:27.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and tell them to the next town, 16:27.533 --> 16:29.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then that town would open up about their stories. 16:29.233 --> 16:30.166 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Yeah. It's a catalyst, isn't it? 16:30.166 --> 16:31.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - And then it's a catalyst. 16:31.133 --> 16:32.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's what anthropologists do. 16:32.666 --> 16:34.100 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Indeed. 16:34.100 --> 16:36.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And so they talk about these stories in the archive, 16:36.266 --> 16:37.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and it renders the pot in a certain way 16:37.866 --> 16:40.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that then people can start to talk to each other, 16:40.033 --> 16:42.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% not necessarily to try to agree with each other, 16:42.400 --> 16:44.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but if you can get people to share stories, 16:44.600 --> 16:46.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% if you can get to see someone. 16:46.566 --> 16:48.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "I don't like your politics. 16:48.600 --> 16:52.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I don't like the way you dress. 16:52.000 --> 16:53.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Why does your hair have to be purple?" 16:53.866 --> 16:55.966 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Yeah. - All of this. 16:55.966 --> 16:58.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And yet you start to hear someone's story. 16:58.133 --> 17:00.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And there may be some kernel of something 17:00.400 --> 17:02.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that you recognize, or not, 17:02.800 --> 17:04.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but you see them as a person. 17:04.266 --> 17:05.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's what Michelle Obama says, 17:05.700 --> 17:08.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that it's hard to hate up close. 17:08.100 --> 17:11.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And narrative, and listening to someone, 17:11.600 --> 17:13.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and listening even across difference 17:13.433 --> 17:17.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% can sometimes create in a work environment, 17:17.100 --> 17:20.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% even in a family what we call a trust dividend. 17:20.700 --> 17:22.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So let me ask you about the moment we're in 17:22.533 --> 17:23.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as it relates to this. 17:23.966 --> 17:27.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So I'll turn your concept or your prompt on you. 17:28.433 --> 17:29.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% The election, 17:30.933 --> 17:32.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% six words, your thoughts. 17:32.766 --> 17:35.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% (audience chuckling) (audience gasping) 17:35.200 --> 17:36.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, I go back to the six words 17:36.866 --> 17:38.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that I end the book on. 17:38.833 --> 17:40.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Still more work to be done. 17:40.233 --> 17:41.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 17:41.500 --> 17:43.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - We have a lot of work to do right now. 17:43.733 --> 17:45.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% There are a few other things I could have said. 17:45.600 --> 17:46.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% (audience chuckling) 17:46.866 --> 17:49.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Because you recognize, of course you recognize 17:49.766 --> 17:52.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that as much as people wanna make this election 17:52.200 --> 17:53.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% about one thing or another thing 17:53.766 --> 17:56.800 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% or everything or nothing, the outcome, 17:56.800 --> 18:01.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and what preceded the outcome was about race in America. 18:01.200 --> 18:02.300 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Full stop. 18:02.300 --> 18:04.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% There was no way for it not to be. 18:04.266 --> 18:06.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I'm not saying it was only about race in America. 18:06.400 --> 18:07.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - No, no, no, but definitely a portion of it was about that. 18:07.700 --> 18:10.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - But definitely, it was an onion in the stew. 18:10.366 --> 18:12.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Most definitely. - [Evan] Right. 18:12.533 --> 18:14.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - And we haven't, 18:14.033 --> 18:18.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if you look at all the first thought postmortems, 18:18.133 --> 18:19.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they've talked about the price of eggs, 18:19.500 --> 18:21.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the price of bacon, and the price of housing, 18:21.300 --> 18:22.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and who communicated. 18:22.600 --> 18:23.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And it seemed like it was... 18:23.533 --> 18:24.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% At one point I was thinking, 18:26.300 --> 18:28.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Are we are gonna talk about race or misogyny 18:28.766 --> 18:31.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because that has to be a part of this." 18:31.300 --> 18:33.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And you're careful about this 18:33.300 --> 18:35.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% 'cause I'm not saying that people who voted 18:35.100 --> 18:36.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for Donald Trump are racist. 18:36.566 --> 18:37.866 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 18:37.866 --> 18:39.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - That's not, I wanna be very clear about that. 18:41.166 --> 18:44.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% But he was someone who repeatedly made racist statements, 18:44.433 --> 18:47.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% so you're voting for someone who had done things 18:47.766 --> 18:51.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that were racist or was embraced in some ways by people 18:51.066 --> 18:53.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% who are unapologetically-- 18:53.333 --> 18:54.566 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - It's kind of extraordinary to me. 18:54.566 --> 18:56.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, we've both been around long enough 18:56.100 --> 18:58.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to remember previous elections. 18:58.733 --> 19:02.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This was one that was different for me 19:02.200 --> 19:04.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% because it was a because election, 19:04.366 --> 19:06.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and it was a despite election. 19:06.266 --> 19:07.633 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yes. 19:07.633 --> 19:08.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And the ways in which it was a despite election 19:08.700 --> 19:10.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% are exactly what you said. 19:10.100 --> 19:13.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He said all these things, but the price of eggs. 19:13.033 --> 19:14.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Like, they made themselves comfortable 19:14.733 --> 19:17.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with the idea of embracing that because of this other thing. 19:17.933 --> 19:19.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - But there's a lot of stuff that's going on. 19:19.466 --> 19:22.500 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% And I really understand the nuances 19:22.500 --> 19:23.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and complexities about this, 19:23.900 --> 19:25.566 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and that's why I'm really careful about saying, 19:25.566 --> 19:28.500 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% "It was just this or it was just that or it was just this." 19:28.500 --> 19:29.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% If we're really honest, 19:31.900 --> 19:34.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% if you look at our leadership culture in America, 19:36.900 --> 19:39.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% at some point, if you're gonna have an honest assessment 19:39.300 --> 19:42.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of the election, we probably should look at the fact 19:42.133 --> 19:45.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that one of the candidates was a person of color, 19:45.866 --> 19:47.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and a woman, and a person of color 19:47.900 --> 19:49.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% who happens to be a woman. 19:49.200 --> 19:50.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% There's a study that's been done, 19:50.366 --> 19:51.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and I'm gonna be careful about citing it 19:51.733 --> 19:54.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% 'cause I wanna be careful about not misquoting it, 19:56.133 --> 19:57.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I wish I had it right at my fingertips, 19:57.833 --> 19:59.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% but they looked at the corporate, 19:59.400 --> 20:00.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the CEO leadership culture, 20:00.733 --> 20:02.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and they found that a very large percentage, 20:02.566 --> 20:06.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% like 20% have one of seven names or something like that. 20:06.233 --> 20:10.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's Bob and some derivative of John, 20:10.733 --> 20:12.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and some derivative of James, 20:12.100 --> 20:13.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and some derivative of Richard. 20:13.700 --> 20:16.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And they usually are a certain height, 20:16.266 --> 20:18.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and they go to one of 20 schools. 20:18.666 --> 20:20.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so we have a sort of sense 20:20.466 --> 20:21.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of what leadership looks like, 20:21.733 --> 20:23.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and there's a comfort zone in that. 20:23.866 --> 20:25.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And we asked America to move out 20:25.900 --> 20:29.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of that comfort zone in a really tumultuous moment, 20:29.366 --> 20:31.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at a point when you had these forces 20:31.866 --> 20:33.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that were really invested in our division. 20:33.633 --> 20:37.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So we can't pretend that that wasn't part of this. 20:37.433 --> 20:39.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - But Michele, you know that one of the conversations 20:39.500 --> 20:40.900 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that we will be having 20:40.900 --> 20:43.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is whether or not there was enough emphasis placed 20:43.233 --> 20:46.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by the Harris campaign on race or gender 20:46.900 --> 20:49.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% as a component of the pitch. 20:49.166 --> 20:51.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And in fact, what has been said, 20:51.000 --> 20:52.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% what is thought about the campaign 20:52.466 --> 20:54.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% was that they actually deemphasized that, 20:54.366 --> 20:55.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they didn't actually. 20:55.933 --> 20:59.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And, of course, I said, "How do you not recognize the nature 20:59.200 --> 21:02.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the candidacy based on the candidate?" 21:02.466 --> 21:04.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I think in some cases the analysts 21:04.466 --> 21:08.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% who are making that assertion 21:08.566 --> 21:10.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% are sometimes outsourcing the conversation. 21:10.966 --> 21:12.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like, "She should be talking about race 21:12.600 --> 21:14.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% 'cause then we don't have to lead the conversation." 21:14.233 --> 21:15.800 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Interesting, interesting. Yeah. 21:15.800 --> 21:18.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - "If she brings it up, then I don't have to." 21:18.533 --> 21:21.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So it's kind of like, "Leave it up to her." 21:21.066 --> 21:23.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But Toni Morrison told us 21:23.233 --> 21:25.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that race is often a distraction. 21:25.000 --> 21:26.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 21:26.233 --> 21:27.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And so why is it that people of color 21:27.600 --> 21:29.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or women or someone who is outside 21:29.900 --> 21:34.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the cohort norm 21:34.900 --> 21:36.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in terms of leadership, 21:36.200 --> 21:38.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% why do they have to lead the conversation? 21:38.433 --> 21:40.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% When Barack Obama ran for office, everyone expected him 21:40.833 --> 21:43.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to have the big conversation about race. 21:43.433 --> 21:44.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And then everyone expected him 21:44.700 --> 21:46.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to have a national conversation about race, 21:46.000 --> 21:47.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as if we were all gonna get together on Tuesday 21:47.666 --> 21:49.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and suddenly have this conversation. 21:49.033 --> 21:50.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, and he was also criticized. 21:50.200 --> 21:51.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, I remember at one point-- 21:51.500 --> 21:53.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - But we don't have the same expectation 21:53.266 --> 21:55.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of white candidates, and yet we should. 21:55.666 --> 21:56.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's one of the-- 21:56.633 --> 21:58.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Okay, that's a good thing. 21:58.066 --> 21:59.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And yet we should because if we are ever going 21:59.433 --> 22:02.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to have an open, honest, productive conversation, 22:02.500 --> 22:06.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it cannot be by, for and about people of color. 22:06.200 --> 22:08.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% White Americans need to have a seat at the table. 22:08.100 --> 22:09.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I am more convinced of that than ever 22:09.933 --> 22:11.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% after writing this book 22:11.433 --> 22:13.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because when I put the basket on the table, 22:13.633 --> 22:16.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I admit that I created this project 22:16.633 --> 22:18.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% based on a mistaken assumption 22:18.000 --> 22:19.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that Americans didn't wanna talk about race. 22:19.533 --> 22:21.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I was wrong. They do. - Yeah, they do. 22:21.000 --> 22:23.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I created this project on the mistaken assumption 22:23.500 --> 22:24.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that if I put a basket on the table 22:24.900 --> 22:26.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and ask people to talk about race, that the majority 22:26.866 --> 22:29.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of the people who showed up would be people of color. 22:29.066 --> 22:30.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - People of color, right. 22:30.433 --> 22:33.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And in the 14 years that we have been doing this, 22:33.266 --> 22:34.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in the majority of the years 22:34.433 --> 22:35.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that we've been collecting stories, 22:35.966 --> 22:37.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the majority of the stories have come from white Americans. 22:37.366 --> 22:39.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - White people. Amazing. 22:39.166 --> 22:43.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - And that was a surprise. 22:43.666 --> 22:46.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, I write this in one of the chapters in the book. 22:46.333 --> 22:47.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When I began this, I did not know 22:47.800 --> 22:50.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that I was gonna be embarking on a 14-year odyssey 22:50.800 --> 22:52.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of listening to white Americans talk about race. 22:52.466 --> 22:54.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I didn't even think that was possible. 22:54.166 --> 22:55.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 22:55.133 --> 22:57.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - And yet it told me that a lot 22:57.100 --> 22:59.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of people feel left out of the conversation. 22:59.566 --> 23:03.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They feel that they don't have control in the conversation. 23:03.333 --> 23:05.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They feel like America looks past them. 23:05.033 --> 23:07.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They feel like if they do say anything, they're walking 23:07.900 --> 23:11.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% through a minefield or walking on eggshells. 23:11.433 --> 23:14.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so many people showed up with so many different kinds 23:14.000 --> 23:18.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of stories that it reminded me, frankly, 23:18.366 --> 23:19.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of our faults in journalism; 23:19.800 --> 23:22.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that when something happens... 23:22.533 --> 23:24.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I'll give you an example. 23:24.566 --> 23:26.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The Mother Emanuel tragedy. 23:27.733 --> 23:29.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When Dylann Roof went into that church, 23:29.733 --> 23:31.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% went into Mother Emanuel, 23:31.266 --> 23:35.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and took people's lives while they were worshiping, 23:35.333 --> 23:39.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we had a knee-jerk reaction to call certain kinds of people. 23:39.433 --> 23:40.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And they were usually ministers, 23:40.933 --> 23:42.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they were sometimes activists, 23:42.300 --> 23:44.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% they were almost always people of color. 23:44.066 --> 23:46.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But we did not have a concomitant effort 23:46.433 --> 23:48.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to understand the roots of the hatred 23:48.333 --> 23:49.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that led to that action. 23:49.733 --> 23:52.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We did not invite other people to the table to talk 23:52.533 --> 23:54.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% about how did we get here? 23:54.100 --> 23:56.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% What was the syllabus of hatred that led him 23:56.333 --> 23:58.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to do something like that? 23:58.066 --> 24:00.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And whether we're talking about a hateful act like that, 24:00.333 --> 24:01.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% or just sort of the discomfort 24:01.866 --> 24:04.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% around the demographic changes that we're going through, 24:04.400 --> 24:05.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% whether we're talking about 24:07.233 --> 24:08.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% just the complications in life 24:08.900 --> 24:11.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% if you have married someone across the color line, 24:11.100 --> 24:12.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% which so many people have. 24:12.633 --> 24:14.166 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 24:14.166 --> 24:15.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Go to the mall, go to the movies, go to the grocery store. 24:15.766 --> 24:17.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Turn on the television. - Turn on the television. 24:17.433 --> 24:20.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - We see biracial America now in places we never did before. 24:20.700 --> 24:22.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - And that is a sign of progress. 24:22.000 --> 24:23.533 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - It is. - It is a sign of progress. 24:23.533 --> 24:27.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But also, that doesn't mean that the complications are over. 24:27.000 --> 24:28.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Sometimes that ushers in, 24:28.366 --> 24:30.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that's what I've learned from this project, 24:30.100 --> 24:32.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% sometimes that ushers in different kinds of conversations 24:32.800 --> 24:34.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and layers of complexity. 24:34.100 --> 24:35.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we don't invite in those conversations. 24:35.700 --> 24:38.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So as people who drive the narrative, 24:38.500 --> 24:40.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we tend to stay in a certain groove. 24:40.966 --> 24:42.333 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - [Evan] Yeah. 24:42.333 --> 24:45.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And one of the reasons that people feel left out 24:45.400 --> 24:47.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% is because they actually are left out. 24:49.100 --> 24:50.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And that brings us back really to the book. 24:50.800 --> 24:53.866 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% The book was at least a way for people 24:53.866 --> 24:55.800 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% who felt left out to have their voices heard. 24:55.800 --> 24:58.333 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% And in the end, that's such an important thing, 24:58.333 --> 24:59.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and especially right now. 24:59.700 --> 25:00.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Yeah, and politically 25:00.700 --> 25:02.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Given everything going on. 25:02.166 --> 25:03.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And politically, I think the right understood that. 25:03.933 --> 25:05.200 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 25:05.200 --> 25:06.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - That there are a lot of people who feel 25:06.433 --> 25:09.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% like that they're not heard right now, 25:09.333 --> 25:13.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that they are caricaturized in some way, 25:13.366 --> 25:15.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% they're mocked in some way. 25:16.933 --> 25:18.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And they understood that, 25:18.766 --> 25:22.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and they came up with a very sort of potent kind of messages 25:22.833 --> 25:25.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to say, "We hear you, we understand you, 25:26.800 --> 25:31.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we're going to make America better for you 25:31.000 --> 25:32.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by going backwards." 25:32.400 --> 25:34.333 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Right, remains to be seen. Yeah. 25:34.333 --> 25:37.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Michele, we could talk about this all day. It's terrific. 25:37.200 --> 25:39.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I appreciate so much the hard work you've done 25:39.166 --> 25:40.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% on everybody's behalf here. 25:40.833 --> 25:44.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You've made this conversation a little bit easier to have, 25:45.333 --> 25:46.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I wish you great success with the book. 25:46.566 --> 25:47.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So thank you very much. - Evan, thank you. 25:47.833 --> 25:49.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Good, Michele Norris. - My best to you. 25:49.366 --> 25:51.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Thank you, great. All right, thank you, great, excellent. 25:51.400 --> 25:52.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% (audience applauding) (lively music) 25:52.733 --> 25:55.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We'd love to have you join us in the studio. 25:55.433 --> 25:59.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Visit our website at austinpbs.org/overheard 25:59.133 --> 26:02.566 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% to find invitations to interviews, Q&As with our audience 26:02.566 --> 26:05.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and guests, and an archive of past episodes. 26:05.666 --> 26:08.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - If you had talked to me ahead of the 2016 election, 26:08.333 --> 26:10.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I actually had a pretty good indication 26:10.666 --> 26:12.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that Donald Trump was going to win. 26:12.700 --> 26:15.100 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And one of the reasons, that I started 26:15.100 --> 26:18.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to see a lot of white men in the inbox talking about feeling 26:18.533 --> 26:19.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% like they were invisible, 26:20.966 --> 26:22.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% a lot of people talking about feeling 26:22.700 --> 26:25.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% like they lived in an America that they didn't recognize. 26:25.166 --> 26:26.700 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% - [Narrator] Support for "Overheard With Evan Smith" 26:26.700 --> 26:28.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% comes from HillCo Partners, 26:28.400 --> 26:30.666 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% a Texas government affairs consultancy, 26:30.666 --> 26:33.833 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% Claire and Carl Stuart, Christine and Philip Dial, 26:33.833 --> 26:36.500 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and the Eller Group, specializing in crisis management, 26:36.500 --> 26:38.800 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% litigation and public affairs communication. 26:38.800 --> 26:40.133 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% Ellergroup.com. 26:40.133 --> 26:43.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (playful music ending) 26:43.233 --> 26:45.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (no audio)