1 00:00:04,933 --> 00:00:07,200 Thanks for joining us for this next edition of Off 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:08,666 the Record with former Democratic 3 00:00:08,666 --> 00:00:10,466 congressman from Michigan, Andy Levin, 4 00:00:10,466 --> 00:00:12,700 who's been asked to run for president. 5 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:14,400 Our lead story, a battle over 6 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,633 freedom of speech in the Michigan House. 7 00:00:16,633 --> 00:00:20,900 On the OTR panel, Craig Mauger, Jordyn Hermani, and Rick Pluta. 8 00:00:20,900 --> 00:00:23,400 Sit in with us as we get the inside out. 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,333 Off the Record. 10 00:00:26,333 --> 00:00:30,500 Production of Off the Record is made possible 11 00:00:30,500 --> 00:00:33,666 in part by Martin Waymire, a full service 12 00:00:33,666 --> 00:00:35,700 strategic communications agency, 13 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:38,033 partnering with clients through public relations, 14 00:00:38,033 --> 00:00:40,933 digital marketing and public policy engagement. 15 00:00:40,933 --> 00:00:44,233 Learn more at MartinWaymire.com. 16 00:00:44,233 --> 00:00:49,633 And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick. 17 00:00:49,633 --> 00:00:51,366 A chatty group here this morning on 18 00:00:51,366 --> 00:00:54,200 as we're getting closer to spring, aren't we, guys? 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,500 Yes, yes, yes, indeed. 20 00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:55,666 All right. 21 00:00:56,533 --> 00:00:57,966 We're also getting closer to a showdown 22 00:00:57,966 --> 00:00:59,000 that we had this week 23 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,833 in the Michigan House regarding a state 24 00:01:00,833 --> 00:01:03,166 representative, Josh Schriver of Oxford. 25 00:01:03,166 --> 00:01:05,433 What did he allegedly do wrong? 26 00:01:05,433 --> 00:01:08,333 Well, he amplified a social media post 27 00:01:08,333 --> 00:01:13,700 from a more right wing commentator to keep it brief. 28 00:01:13,700 --> 00:01:16,233 This is called the Great Replacement Theory. 29 00:01:16,233 --> 00:01:19,100 Or he basically retweeted a chart, 30 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:22,500 showed a bunch of little white people on it 31 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:25,866 and many, many more little black people on it. 32 00:01:25,866 --> 00:01:27,900 And basically, Shriver retweeted this 33 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:31,900 and with a bar chart or a bar graph going down, 34 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:35,700 implying that, you know, I don't even know he's... 35 00:01:35,700 --> 00:01:39,966 The great replacement theory is and it's widely debunked is 36 00:01:39,966 --> 00:01:45,866 that elites are trying to organize a systemic people 37 00:01:45,866 --> 00:01:49,866 replacement of white people with people of color. 38 00:01:50,066 --> 00:01:53,233 And it's ridiculous but it literal means 39 00:01:53,233 --> 00:01:54,733 that's the other part of the theory. 40 00:01:54,733 --> 00:01:56,166 It's not just, hey, 41 00:01:56,166 --> 00:01:58,433 there are demographic trends happening here. 42 00:01:58,433 --> 00:01:59,233 It's that there is 43 00:01:59,666 --> 00:02:03,333 someone puppeteering this to bring in minorities, 44 00:02:03,333 --> 00:02:06,766 to have a political wins for Democrats ultimately. 45 00:02:06,766 --> 00:02:07,966 And that is what the very 46 00:02:07,966 --> 00:02:11,066 radical diminished the I don't know, social effects 47 00:02:11,066 --> 00:02:12,066 of white people. 48 00:02:12,066 --> 00:02:13,700 It's it's just absolutely ridiculous 49 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:15,200 and so paranoid conspiracy theory 50 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,200 that has no merit and was pretty soundly 51 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,133 rebuked by Democrats in the Michigan House 52 00:02:21,133 --> 00:02:24,700 led by the House Speaker, Joe Tate, who did what as a result? 53 00:02:24,700 --> 00:02:29,933 Removed him from his committees, took his office assignment, 54 00:02:29,933 --> 00:02:33,233 and, you know, basically said that 55 00:02:33,233 --> 00:02:38,000 the only right that he still has as a state 56 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,300 representative is to introduce legislation 57 00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:44,100 and vote on legislation in the floor. 58 00:02:44,100 --> 00:02:45,833 Well, that he has a desk somewhere. 59 00:02:45,833 --> 00:02:47,466 The defenders of the representatives 60 00:02:47,466 --> 00:02:49,666 say basically the speaker neutered him 61 00:02:49,666 --> 00:02:50,900 back in his district. 62 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:53,500 He's unable to really represent his constituents. 63 00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:55,466 Yeah, that's what some of the defenders say. 64 00:02:55,466 --> 00:02:57,233 I mean, meanwhile, 65 00:02:57,233 --> 00:03:00,333 Josh Schriver is getting a growing social media presence. 66 00:03:00,333 --> 00:03:01,666 I was at the Oakland County 67 00:03:01,666 --> 00:03:03,800 Republican Party convention last night. 68 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,466 He gets up and gives a speech. 69 00:03:05,466 --> 00:03:07,533 And, you know, I'm standing in another room 70 00:03:07,533 --> 00:03:10,866 and I hear someone say, we are being invaded. 71 00:03:10,866 --> 00:03:12,900 That's what Josh Schriver tells this crowd. 72 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:15,700 And the reception was overwhelmingly positive 73 00:03:15,700 --> 00:03:18,533 to Josh Schriver at the Oakland County convention last night. 74 00:03:18,533 --> 00:03:20,066 So you can kind of see 75 00:03:20,066 --> 00:03:22,766 the place we are in our politics right now 76 00:03:22,766 --> 00:03:27,733 where there's almost an incentive to give air to these 77 00:03:27,733 --> 00:03:31,766 incredibly false conspiracy theories because of how extreme 78 00:03:31,766 --> 00:03:34,266 some of the individuals at the base, bases 79 00:03:34,266 --> 00:03:36,066 of both political parties have become. 80 00:03:36,066 --> 00:03:37,866 But it's interesting, though, because you 81 00:03:37,866 --> 00:03:41,000 you have obviously Democrats widely rebuked this, 82 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,366 but you do have some pushback 83 00:03:42,366 --> 00:03:46,066 from his own colleagues in the Michigan House in 98 to 5 84 00:03:46,066 --> 00:03:49,466 vote out a resolution that didn't mention him by name. 85 00:03:49,466 --> 00:03:50,900 I think that's the key here. 86 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:54,333 The resolution, it was not a rebuke of Schriver directly. 87 00:03:54,533 --> 00:03:56,433 And you wonder if they put Josh Schriver's 88 00:03:56,433 --> 00:03:59,533 name in that resolution and what he actually did. 89 00:03:59,533 --> 00:04:01,766 What would the vote have been on that? 90 00:04:01,766 --> 00:04:03,400 We don't we don't know. 91 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,300 But I think what you're getting at 92 00:04:05,300 --> 00:04:09,600 is that now there is attention focused on Josh Schriver, 93 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:10,966 that there is attention. 94 00:04:10,966 --> 00:04:17,000 We're talking about it now on on what he said and and it's 95 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:17,500 you know, that 96 00:04:18,266 --> 00:04:20,466 that like you said, you know, the tweet amplified it 97 00:04:20,466 --> 00:04:24,500 and now does the discussion and amplify it even more. 98 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:27,166 Well, other of his defenses, yes. Okay. 99 00:04:27,166 --> 00:04:31,433 But the other his other defenders have said free speech. 100 00:04:31,433 --> 00:04:34,000 No, no. That's how the legislature is now. 101 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:34,633 All right. 102 00:04:35,033 --> 00:04:36,133 This is something that's been kind of 103 00:04:36,133 --> 00:04:37,966 getting under my skin, the concept of people 104 00:04:37,966 --> 00:04:39,633 yelling, well, this is free speech. Sure. 105 00:04:39,633 --> 00:04:43,100 He has every ability to say to amplify whatever he wants. 106 00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:46,533 That is not freedom from consequences. 107 00:04:46,533 --> 00:04:49,066 So the consequence here, obviously, 108 00:04:49,066 --> 00:04:49,333 you know, 109 00:04:50,166 --> 00:04:50,900 when we talk about free speech, it's freedom 110 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,066 from the government coming after you. 111 00:04:53,066 --> 00:04:55,433 I understand the irony here, him being a House Rep. 112 00:04:55,433 --> 00:04:56,900 So this is quite literally, 113 00:04:56,900 --> 00:04:58,700 you know, the government coming after him. 114 00:04:58,700 --> 00:04:59,933 But this is also his job. 115 00:04:59,933 --> 00:05:02,300 This is no different than a boss telling you, hey, 116 00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:04,166 you made a really poor mistake 117 00:05:04,166 --> 00:05:05,800 in putting out this social media post. 118 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,633 It reflects poorly on our values. 119 00:05:07,633 --> 00:05:09,566 So we're going to have to demote you. 120 00:05:09,566 --> 00:05:10,700 We're going to have to pay. 121 00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:11,866 We're going to have to do something. 122 00:05:11,866 --> 00:05:13,833 That's what's going on here. 123 00:05:13,833 --> 00:05:16,000 So the speaker is the boss of the House, 124 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,733 but his constituents are the one who elected him 125 00:05:18,733 --> 00:05:21,733 and who have the power to hire and fire him. 126 00:05:21,733 --> 00:05:26,633 And as the the person in charge of the house, Joe Tate 127 00:05:26,633 --> 00:05:28,233 and the Democratic leadership 128 00:05:28,233 --> 00:05:32,233 have to thread a needle, which is at what point. 129 00:05:32,233 --> 00:05:36,633 At what point does someone espousing an unpopular 130 00:05:36,633 --> 00:05:40,733 view and in this case a ridiculous or ridiculous view, 131 00:05:40,733 --> 00:05:44,566 cross the line from representing a particular 132 00:05:44,566 --> 00:05:48,433 point of view of the people who sent you there to something 133 00:05:48,433 --> 00:05:50,900 that is so toxic that 134 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:54,400 it needs to be dealt with and, you know, Joe Tate of 135 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,366 and the House Democratic leadership, 136 00:05:56,366 --> 00:05:59,266 obviously, you know, said to Josh Schriver, 137 00:05:59,266 --> 00:06:00,933 this is where you crossed the line. 138 00:06:00,933 --> 00:06:02,066 Well, and I don't want to take away 139 00:06:02,066 --> 00:06:03,966 from the fact that we're treating this as this 140 00:06:03,966 --> 00:06:05,633 this is something that's unfounded. 141 00:06:05,633 --> 00:06:06,833 I mean, even within the last decade, 142 00:06:06,833 --> 00:06:08,666 if I remember correctly, Larry Inman 143 00:06:08,666 --> 00:06:12,500 had his staff stripped from him like several years ago. 144 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:13,733 But this is not the first time. 145 00:06:13,733 --> 00:06:14,800 This is not the first time. 146 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,233 And that was led by a Republican House at that point. 147 00:06:17,233 --> 00:06:18,766 So this is pretty common 148 00:06:18,766 --> 00:06:20,500 in terms of why we shouldn't say comment. 149 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:23,766 But it is sort of the the method of operation 150 00:06:23,766 --> 00:06:26,266 for rebuking if you do have a lawmaker. 151 00:06:26,266 --> 00:06:27,433 Yeah, it's not unprecedented. 152 00:06:27,433 --> 00:06:27,966 We can't. 153 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:30,500 Like, I just I feel like that's also kind of being lost in here 154 00:06:30,500 --> 00:06:33,533 is people saying, well, you're disenfranchising his voters. 155 00:06:33,533 --> 00:06:35,900 He he did that. 156 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:38,933 Well, we should also point out, just because you opened 157 00:06:38,933 --> 00:06:43,333 the door on that is that it's not that his constituents 158 00:06:43,333 --> 00:06:45,133 because constituent service is something 159 00:06:45,133 --> 00:06:48,200 that a representative is expected to do. 160 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,566 That constituent services still exist. 161 00:06:51,566 --> 00:06:54,633 It's just being handled now by the House 162 00:06:54,633 --> 00:06:57,500 instead of specifically by Josh Shriver's office. 163 00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,866 So the question it is where the real chairperson 164 00:06:59,866 --> 00:07:02,566 of the Republican Party, please stand up. 165 00:07:02,566 --> 00:07:04,700 I again, I think this is the second time 166 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:05,733 I've been on the show and said this. 167 00:07:05,733 --> 00:07:07,900 I don't want to say who is the chair 168 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:09,466 because I don't really know right now. 169 00:07:09,466 --> 00:07:10,366 But we do 170 00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:12,566 understand that the Republicans National Committee 171 00:07:12,566 --> 00:07:14,566 believes that it's Pete Hoekstra. 172 00:07:14,566 --> 00:07:16,966 Christina Karamo believes that she's the chair 173 00:07:16,966 --> 00:07:18,433 of the Michigan Republican Party. 174 00:07:18,433 --> 00:07:22,800 And what to watch here is what occurs on March 2nd. 175 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,300 March 2nd is the date of the presidential caucuses 176 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:27,066 for Republicans. 177 00:07:27,633 --> 00:07:30,366 Republican delegates are scheduled to gather in Detroit. 178 00:07:30,366 --> 00:07:34,166 That is a meeting that's been organized by Christina Karamo. 179 00:07:34,166 --> 00:07:36,633 How does Pete Hoekstra handle that meeting? 180 00:07:36,633 --> 00:07:39,733 Does he have a separate caucus for his people? 181 00:07:39,733 --> 00:07:42,233 You asked him that question. He didn't really. 182 00:07:42,233 --> 00:07:44,200 He said he was going to run the meeting. Right. 183 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,433 Which is he going to walk in and take a gavel 184 00:07:46,433 --> 00:07:47,966 out of Christina Karamo's hands? 185 00:07:47,966 --> 00:07:48,433 Well. 186 00:07:49,233 --> 00:07:51,600 Or will Christina Karamo, come in and take the gavel 187 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,466 out of Pete Hoekstras hand? Thats exactly possible. 188 00:07:53,466 --> 00:07:56,633 But she did say in her statement that if the courts 189 00:07:56,633 --> 00:08:00,633 ordered her out, she, quote, did not want to go to jail. 190 00:08:00,633 --> 00:08:04,233 So does that if the courts act before March two, it's 191 00:08:04,233 --> 00:08:06,500 null and void what you just presented? 192 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:07,266 Completely true. 193 00:08:07,533 --> 00:08:09,266 But what does it mean if the courts act? 194 00:08:09,266 --> 00:08:10,566 Do you feel, Christine 195 00:08:10,566 --> 00:08:12,933 Karamo will take a court order from Kent County Circuit 196 00:08:12,933 --> 00:08:14,433 and say it's over, I'm going home now? 197 00:08:14,433 --> 00:08:15,733 Or will she have She'll. 198 00:08:15,733 --> 00:08:17,700 Well, don't want to go to jail for. 199 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:20,100 Don't she appeal that? Right. 200 00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:22,733 That Christina Karamo, part of her argument 201 00:08:22,733 --> 00:08:26,766 is that the judicial system, which the Kent County Circuit 202 00:08:26,766 --> 00:08:28,600 Court is part of, 203 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,633 doesn't have jurisdiction over an internal party matter. 204 00:08:32,633 --> 00:08:36,900 And I think you nailed it that she that that in all likelihood 205 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:41,966 there will be appeals and will the will 206 00:08:41,966 --> 00:08:47,666 those appeals play out in time for it to be activated 207 00:08:47,666 --> 00:08:50,833 for the primaries and the caucuses? 208 00:08:50,833 --> 00:08:54,566 My expectation is that there will either be one caucus 209 00:08:54,566 --> 00:08:55,566 where everyone gathers 210 00:08:55,833 --> 00:08:58,600 and there's a vote on who's chair, Karamo or Hoekstra, 211 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,166 or there will be two caucuses, 212 00:09:00,166 --> 00:09:02,200 one in Detroit, one somewhere else, 213 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,666 and we'll see which caucus gets more delegates. 214 00:09:04,666 --> 00:09:06,733 That's my that's also not unprecedented. 215 00:09:06,733 --> 00:09:08,533 Although, Tim, you would remember this, I think 216 00:09:08,533 --> 00:09:12,933 it was 1987 when the Republicans were preparing 217 00:09:12,933 --> 00:09:16,566 to send separate delegations to the national convention. 218 00:09:16,566 --> 00:09:17,133 And then 219 00:09:17,566 --> 00:09:18,966 it was up to the national convention 220 00:09:18,966 --> 00:09:21,533 to determine is the Pat Robertson thing. 221 00:09:21,533 --> 00:09:21,900 Yeah. 222 00:09:22,833 --> 00:09:25,066 And there was actually there was a deal made beforehand 223 00:09:25,066 --> 00:09:28,900 over, you know, how many delegates each 224 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:30,900 you know, each faction got to send. 225 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:33,966 Well, see, so does this stuff get in the way 226 00:09:33,966 --> 00:09:37,166 of Peter Hoekstra putting Humpty Dumpty back together again? 227 00:09:37,166 --> 00:09:39,633 In terms of the Republican Party? Party Yes. 228 00:09:39,633 --> 00:09:41,533 I mean, absolutely. 229 00:09:41,533 --> 00:09:45,233 You still have a sect of of Karamo supporters 230 00:09:45,233 --> 00:09:48,833 who are behind her every stretch of the way. 231 00:09:48,833 --> 00:09:50,600 I think that a part of this is going to also maybe 232 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,066 come down to we talked about, you know, the RNC. 233 00:09:53,066 --> 00:09:54,633 They've recognized Hoekstra 234 00:09:54,633 --> 00:09:57,100 as the chair of the Michigan Republican Party. 235 00:09:57,100 --> 00:09:59,933 So maybe we're putting a lot of pontificating behind this that, 236 00:09:59,933 --> 00:10:00,400 you know, 237 00:10:00,833 --> 00:10:01,733 once those delegates get sent out, 238 00:10:01,733 --> 00:10:03,400 if they only recognize his faction, 239 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,566 is that not as good as done for her? 240 00:10:05,566 --> 00:10:06,166 I mean, 241 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,766 she can keep holding meetings, she can keep showing up places. 242 00:10:08,766 --> 00:10:10,300 She can keep saying she's chair. 243 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:13,366 But if everybody else is not acknowledging that reality, 244 00:10:13,566 --> 00:10:15,066 she's as good as you were. 245 00:10:15,066 --> 00:10:18,000 Me saying that we're chair of the Michigan Republican party. 246 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,933 The bigger impact is in terms of fundraising. 247 00:10:20,933 --> 00:10:22,500 And we've already seen, you know, 248 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:24,100 the Michigan House Republicans 249 00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:28,466 set up a parallel system for doing their own fundraising. 250 00:10:28,733 --> 00:10:32,300 Does it affect fundraising and does it affect organizing 251 00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:34,800 and does it create disenchantment 252 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,200 within the coalition that will affect election? 253 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,300 Mr. Hoekstra has already made the phone calls 254 00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:44,333 for the major funders to the the former chair, Bobby Shostak. 255 00:10:44,333 --> 00:10:45,533 To Mr. Weiser. 256 00:10:45,533 --> 00:10:46,300 The bank account, 257 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,400 not the checkbooks, are going to start to open for Mr. 258 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,366 Hoekstra. 259 00:10:50,666 --> 00:10:53,066 They will, but what account will they be going into? 260 00:10:53,066 --> 00:10:54,766 Because Christina currently right now 261 00:10:54,766 --> 00:10:57,333 is controlling the bank accounts from everything that I know 262 00:10:57,333 --> 00:10:58,866 she has, the party's website. Mr. 263 00:10:58,866 --> 00:11:00,433 Mauger open up another bank account. 264 00:11:00,433 --> 00:11:01,833 You can open up another bank account. 265 00:11:01,833 --> 00:11:04,066 But with the FEC, the official Michigan 266 00:11:04,066 --> 00:11:06,700 Republican Party account is under the control. 267 00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:09,566 From what I understand at this moment of Christina Karamo. 268 00:11:09,566 --> 00:11:10,366 Mm hmm. 269 00:11:10,366 --> 00:11:10,566 Yeah. 270 00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:12,333 So, I mean, its not as simple as just open up 271 00:11:12,633 --> 00:11:14,833 another bank account, you know, and, you know, 272 00:11:14,833 --> 00:11:16,533 who are the bills being sent to 273 00:11:16,533 --> 00:11:18,466 and who is expected to pay the bills? 274 00:11:18,466 --> 00:11:20,600 Just all kinds of complex. There's a risk. 275 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,666 I think there's there is a political risk here 276 00:11:23,666 --> 00:11:26,333 to Donald Trump and what he has done on this. 277 00:11:26,333 --> 00:11:27,900 The people that are with Christina 278 00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:30,100 Karamo, are a lot of those grassroots 279 00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:34,200 activists that will go out and knock doors for 10 hours. 280 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,900 And Trump is really risking alienating these people 281 00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:40,200 to some degree by what he's done with Hoekstra. 282 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,266 For people that don't follow this he endorsed her for this 283 00:11:43,266 --> 00:11:48,333 job. And Christina Karamo is saying to her, 284 00:11:48,333 --> 00:11:50,600 the people who are following her, that Donald Trump 285 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:51,500 got it wrong. 286 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:51,933 Yeah. 287 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:54,800 And remember that there's you know, 288 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,866 there's there are three ways to vote. 289 00:11:56,866 --> 00:11:59,400 There is to get out and vote for one side. 290 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,933 There is getting out and voting for the other side. 291 00:12:01,933 --> 00:12:04,166 And then there's not voting at all. 292 00:12:04,166 --> 00:12:06,900 And quickly, was anybody surprised that a guy dropped 293 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:10,166 out of the US Senate race by the name of 294 00:12:10,166 --> 00:12:12,133 James Craig? Yeah, I. 295 00:12:12,133 --> 00:12:13,700 I am not surprised. 296 00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:16,200 I'm surprised it happened so soon. 297 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,933 And and I'm surprised 298 00:12:17,933 --> 00:12:19,900 that he's looking at running for mayor of Detroit. 299 00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:21,833 That was the beauty of that story. 300 00:12:21,833 --> 00:12:26,100 It's amazing how James Craig just can't give up and go away. 301 00:12:26,100 --> 00:12:28,833 It didn't you know, it didn't happen and we're sorry. 302 00:12:28,833 --> 00:12:30,366 Well he did go away, that was a problem hes not running. 303 00:12:30,366 --> 00:12:32,566 And then he came back. He disappeared. Yeah. 304 00:12:32,566 --> 00:12:34,700 And a lot of people aren't surprised by it and say, 305 00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:37,733 you know, his campaign was it was struggling and failing. 306 00:12:37,733 --> 00:12:40,500 But in the polls, the polls that were available, 307 00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:43,066 he was one of the lead GOP candidates for this job. 308 00:12:43,066 --> 00:12:44,866 He still had his fingers crossed with Donald 309 00:12:44,866 --> 00:12:46,700 Trump would say that didn't happen. 310 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:49,233 All right, let's call in Andy Levin, Mr. 311 00:12:49,233 --> 00:12:51,266 Levin, welcome to Off the Record. 312 00:12:51,266 --> 00:12:53,200 You smiled when we did the Senate 313 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,400 the open that they asked you to run for president. 314 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,800 That is true, is it not? The progressives, 315 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,866 Tim? I haven't been able to talk about that 316 00:13:00,866 --> 00:13:04,133 without cracking up, but yeah, yes, true. 317 00:13:04,133 --> 00:13:04,866 They did. 318 00:13:04,866 --> 00:13:05,766 They did. Okay. 319 00:13:06,033 --> 00:13:09,333 So assuming that they try to find somebody else 320 00:13:09,333 --> 00:13:10,733 to send a message to Mr. 321 00:13:10,733 --> 00:13:13,333 Biden, are they basically committing 322 00:13:13,333 --> 00:13:17,200 political suicide by going that route, sir? 323 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,533 No. Well, now you see what's happening here in Michigan. 324 00:13:20,533 --> 00:13:23,533 I mean, basically, I ended up having like a zoom 325 00:13:23,533 --> 00:13:25,033 meeting with these folks. 326 00:13:25,033 --> 00:13:28,400 They were very impressive political professionals, 327 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,833 professors from different places. 328 00:13:30,833 --> 00:13:35,466 Tim, They are really concerned that Joe Biden can't win 329 00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:39,133 Michigan and the presidency, the Electoral College 330 00:13:39,133 --> 00:13:43,600 in November unless he changes course on Gaza. 331 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,933 And now you've seen that transmogrify into the, 332 00:13:47,933 --> 00:13:49,666 you know, listen to Michigan campaign, 333 00:13:49,666 --> 00:13:53,366 which is saying to voters who are upset, 334 00:13:53,366 --> 00:13:56,233 you know, don't stay home, don't vote for my friend, 335 00:13:56,233 --> 00:13:58,500 former colleague Dean Phillips or whatever. 336 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:02,366 Come out and vote, participate in the process 337 00:14:02,366 --> 00:14:04,533 and have your voice heard on February 27th 338 00:14:04,533 --> 00:14:06,300 and vote uncommitted 339 00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:09,400 so you can express your anger to the president 340 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,600 and say, is that a wrongheaded strategy to vote uncommitted? 341 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:14,900 I really don't think so. 342 00:14:14,900 --> 00:14:19,400 I mean, for one thing, remember in 2008, Barack Obama 343 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:20,666 couldn't get on the ballot here 344 00:14:20,666 --> 00:14:25,200 and 40% of people voted uncommitted, including me, 345 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,833 because we we wanted Barack Obama, not Hillary Clinton. 346 00:14:28,833 --> 00:14:30,300 I mean, which is fine. 347 00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:33,033 People who wanted Hillary, fine people wanted a Barack. 348 00:14:33,033 --> 00:14:36,366 But, you know, it was a good strategy for him then. 349 00:14:36,366 --> 00:14:40,166 I I doubt uncommitted is going to get 40% because it's 350 00:14:40,166 --> 00:14:41,800 not a similar situation. Right. 351 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,133 Representing a major political, you know, candidate. 352 00:14:45,133 --> 00:14:48,000 But my goal is for 353 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,100 Joe Biden to win on November 5th. 354 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,766 And Tim, if you start doing the arithmetic right, he won 355 00:14:53,766 --> 00:14:57,566 by 150,000 votes in 2020. 356 00:14:57,566 --> 00:15:00,466 If you take out Arab-Americans, 357 00:15:00,466 --> 00:15:04,266 if you take out Muslims more broadly, if you take out 358 00:15:04,266 --> 00:15:08,133 voters of color more broadly, if you take out young voters, 359 00:15:08,133 --> 00:15:10,000 I don't see how we can get there. 360 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,366 And we must win on November 5th. 361 00:15:12,366 --> 00:15:15,866 I am really strong for Joe Biden on November 5th, 362 00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:18,966 but I think this is actually a really smart strategy 363 00:15:18,966 --> 00:15:22,500 to engage people and get them in the process and say, 364 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:23,866 express yourself, 365 00:15:23,866 --> 00:15:26,933 because I literally don't think we can win unless he does 366 00:15:26,933 --> 00:15:27,966 change course. 367 00:15:27,966 --> 00:15:28,600 So this will 368 00:15:28,933 --> 00:15:30,400 hopefully, like help send a message, 369 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,066 but also it keeps those people in the game. 370 00:15:33,066 --> 00:15:35,266 But no matter what, I mean, you could call it 371 00:15:35,266 --> 00:15:37,666 uncommitted, you can call it whatever 372 00:15:37,666 --> 00:15:43,033 that this is essentially an anti Biden strategy, 373 00:15:43,033 --> 00:15:46,400 that it is taking the president to task 374 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,600 for something that you're unhappy with. 375 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,300 And I mean, isn't that still a 376 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:58,766 a Biden suppression effort because you're 377 00:15:58,766 --> 00:16:00,066 not getting what you want? 378 00:16:00,066 --> 00:16:02,833 What if the president doesn't turn around and do that? 379 00:16:02,833 --> 00:16:05,900 I mean, that's going to affect your prospects on November 5th, 380 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:09,833 when turnout is critical to what happens in that election? 381 00:16:09,833 --> 00:16:11,533 Alright two things, Rick. 382 00:16:11,533 --> 00:16:12,866 Number one, 383 00:16:12,866 --> 00:16:15,533 the people who are going to vote uncommitted, it's not as 384 00:16:15,533 --> 00:16:18,666 if they were going to go vote for Joe Biden on the 27th. 385 00:16:18,666 --> 00:16:19,900 You know, they were going to stay home 386 00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:21,400 or vote for third party or whatever. 387 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,500 I think both of those are worse options. 388 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:26,966 But the other thing is, when my wife takes me to task 389 00:16:26,966 --> 00:16:30,133 for something I did wrong, or we do that with each other 390 00:16:30,133 --> 00:16:32,700 as friends, as lovers, as spouses, 391 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:35,100 you know, really, we care about each other. 392 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:38,966 That doesn't mean I'm against my wife or she's against me. 393 00:16:38,966 --> 00:16:40,400 It means we have an honest, 394 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,133 deep relationship and we care about each other. 395 00:16:43,133 --> 00:16:44,600 And, you know, if you have a friend 396 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,566 who's an alcoholic, you better confront them. 397 00:16:46,566 --> 00:16:47,933 You better say, Hey, 398 00:16:47,933 --> 00:16:50,266 you know, pal, I'm not going to give you money. 399 00:16:50,266 --> 00:16:51,666 I'm not going to buy you another drink, 400 00:16:51,666 --> 00:16:53,233 whatever the situation is. Right. 401 00:16:53,233 --> 00:16:55,566 I'm going to be honest with you. We got to leave this bar 402 00:16:55,566 --> 00:16:57,566 right now and I'm taking you home. 403 00:16:57,566 --> 00:16:59,533 I mean, that's being a good friend. 404 00:16:59,533 --> 00:17:00,033 So you 405 00:17:00,533 --> 00:17:02,666 you bring up the youth vote, you bring up 406 00:17:02,666 --> 00:17:04,366 the Muslim-American vote. 407 00:17:04,366 --> 00:17:08,166 I mean, in your mind, what does the Biden campaign 408 00:17:08,166 --> 00:17:11,300 have to do, if anything, frankly? 409 00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:13,166 I mean, I've heard from a number of young voters 410 00:17:13,166 --> 00:17:16,066 saying that it's passed the point of no return for them. 411 00:17:16,066 --> 00:17:17,233 They can't stomach the thought 412 00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:20,600 of voting for Biden in November, even though they voted for him 413 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:21,666 in 2020. 414 00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:25,100 So I guess, what do you see as the course of action here 415 00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:29,000 to get these voters potentially back on the wagon? 416 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,433 Yeah, Jordyn great question. 417 00:17:30,433 --> 00:17:34,533 And I don't think that the political advisors 418 00:17:34,533 --> 00:17:35,500 can do anything. 419 00:17:35,766 --> 00:17:39,000 I don't think this is about really great messaging 420 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,400 or smart advertising or anything like that. 421 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,566 We need to change course. 422 00:17:45,566 --> 00:17:50,000 Joe Biden, this most experienced foreign policy president 423 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,266 in a long time, 424 00:17:51,266 --> 00:17:54,433 longtime chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 425 00:17:54,433 --> 00:17:58,000 who's known as every Israeli leader, going back to, 426 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,566 you know, Golda Meir, who knew Arafat, 427 00:18:00,566 --> 00:18:04,866 he needs to step up and be a peacemaker 428 00:18:04,866 --> 00:18:08,066 and really exert American leadership. 429 00:18:08,066 --> 00:18:12,133 Call the EU and Egypt and Jordan together and hold 430 00:18:12,133 --> 00:18:16,533 a diplomatic summit and say the carnage needs to end 431 00:18:16,533 --> 00:18:19,100 the destruction of Gaza needs to end. 432 00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:20,966 There is no military solution 433 00:18:20,966 --> 00:18:23,066 to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. 434 00:18:23,066 --> 00:18:25,100 The occupation needs to end. 435 00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:27,300 We are going to do the really hard work 436 00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:30,833 of getting you Palestinians and Israelis together and saying 437 00:18:30,833 --> 00:18:33,433 somehow you both deserve self-determination. 438 00:18:33,433 --> 00:18:36,166 You both deserve your human and political rights. 439 00:18:36,166 --> 00:18:37,600 We're going to insist 440 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,666 now that you come up with a way to live together 441 00:18:40,666 --> 00:18:43,166 on this little piece of holy land 442 00:18:43,166 --> 00:18:46,633 that we all care about so much and that you all deserve 443 00:18:46,633 --> 00:18:47,633 to live in. 444 00:18:47,633 --> 00:18:49,900 And I think the president can do that. 445 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:54,900 I expect he will be taking steps that to really change things. 446 00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:56,600 And Jordan, you know, the question is 447 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,000 how many people are just mad and how many people are? 448 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,700 I forget, how would you put it exactly? 449 00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:04,033 Very well, you know, beyond, you know, return or something. 450 00:19:04,033 --> 00:19:07,400 I think that a lot of these voters 451 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,466 will come back and support Joe Biden in November 452 00:19:10,466 --> 00:19:14,466 as long as as we really change course here. 453 00:19:14,466 --> 00:19:17,433 We need all those hostages freed in exchange for, 454 00:19:17,433 --> 00:19:20,433 you know, freeing a lot of Palestinian prisoners. 455 00:19:20,433 --> 00:19:22,666 And we need to really move in 456 00:19:22,666 --> 00:19:26,466 in a much more muscular American leadership direction. 457 00:19:26,466 --> 00:19:28,333 And I think he needs to do that to win. 458 00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:29,433 Look, I think he's been 459 00:19:29,433 --> 00:19:31,800 a great president in a lot of other ways. 460 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,666 You know, how proud was I in the 117th Congress 461 00:19:34,666 --> 00:19:35,833 to work with him 462 00:19:35,833 --> 00:19:38,866 to pass the kind of investing in America agenda, 463 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:41,766 really to have a kind of industrial policy 464 00:19:41,766 --> 00:19:44,166 in this country for the first time in a long time? 465 00:19:44,166 --> 00:19:44,766 Really... 466 00:19:44,766 --> 00:19:46,200 For the people 467 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,833 who you referenced who aren't going to come back to Joe Biden. 468 00:19:49,833 --> 00:19:52,600 There are people in this state who I have spoken to 469 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,566 who said they will not vote for Joe Biden 470 00:19:54,566 --> 00:19:57,133 no matter what he does now in November. 471 00:19:57,133 --> 00:19:58,666 I wanted to ask you this question. 472 00:19:58,666 --> 00:20:01,700 In your mind, who would handle the conflict in Israel better, 473 00:20:01,933 --> 00:20:05,600 Donald Trump or Joe Biden over the next four years? 474 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,500 No, it's an obvious one. 475 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:10,700 Of course, Joe Biden will be much better than Donald Trump. 476 00:20:10,933 --> 00:20:13,566 Look at the horrifying things Mr. 477 00:20:13,566 --> 00:20:16,000 Trump just said about our European 478 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,233 allies, like pay up 479 00:20:17,233 --> 00:20:19,800 or I'm going to encourage Russia to invade you. 480 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,066 I mean, that's insane. 481 00:20:21,066 --> 00:20:23,800 It's unhinged and it's un-American. 482 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:24,566 And Joe Biden.. 483 00:20:25,033 --> 00:20:26,400 Do you have any concerns that you're stoking that. 484 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,633 That's your viewpoint over the next four years. 485 00:20:28,633 --> 00:20:30,500 Do you have any concerns that the approach 486 00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:33,533 that you and others, a lot of elected Democrats in 487 00:20:33,533 --> 00:20:37,866 the state are orchestrating in the primary could hurt 488 00:20:37,866 --> 00:20:39,433 Joe Biden in November? 489 00:20:39,433 --> 00:20:40,733 I'm trying to get at 490 00:20:40,733 --> 00:20:43,633 what is the ultimate outcome of the strategy in your mind. 491 00:20:43,633 --> 00:20:46,666 The best case scenario is that he changes his stance. 492 00:20:46,666 --> 00:20:49,366 But isn't there also a risk that potentially 493 00:20:49,366 --> 00:20:50,766 he loses in November 494 00:20:50,766 --> 00:20:55,466 because of the, you know, ire that this is creating right now? 495 00:20:55,466 --> 00:20:57,133 The ire is not being created 496 00:20:57,133 --> 00:20:59,066 by the vote uncommitted, committed campaign. 497 00:20:59,066 --> 00:21:01,366 And with all due respect, Craig, you all are 498 00:21:01,366 --> 00:21:03,966 bunch of really amazing political reporters. 499 00:21:03,966 --> 00:21:06,233 I'm a movement organizer, right? 500 00:21:06,233 --> 00:21:08,100 I come out of the labor movement, environment, 501 00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:09,933 environmental movement and so forth. 502 00:21:09,933 --> 00:21:13,666 I am talking to these folks every day 503 00:21:13,666 --> 00:21:18,166 and helping them find their voice, encouraging them, 504 00:21:18,166 --> 00:21:20,933 keeping them active instead of checking out 505 00:21:20,933 --> 00:21:23,633 is really a great way 506 00:21:23,633 --> 00:21:27,633 to help Joe Biden win in November, 507 00:21:27,633 --> 00:21:31,766 because they will feel good if he really changes. 508 00:21:31,766 --> 00:21:33,766 They will feel like, yes, we got out there, 509 00:21:33,766 --> 00:21:36,400 we set our peace and we were heard. 510 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:37,700 I mean, this is really in a way, 511 00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:39,400 this is what democracy is about. 512 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,100 Democracy isn't just voting. 513 00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:43,066 Democracy is organizing, 514 00:21:43,066 --> 00:21:44,900 coming together with you, fellow citizens. 515 00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:47,166 I mean, it's a beautiful thing that's happening. 516 00:21:47,166 --> 00:21:48,233 Young Jews, 517 00:21:48,433 --> 00:21:51,433 young Arab-Americans, Christian mainline Protestants, 518 00:21:51,666 --> 00:21:56,666 the people involved in this are really activated. 519 00:21:56,666 --> 00:22:00,633 And I feel like this can really help Joe Biden. 520 00:22:00,633 --> 00:22:01,933 Doing nothing. 521 00:22:01,933 --> 00:22:03,466 But doing nothing just leads to 522 00:22:03,466 --> 00:22:05,400 cynicism and people checking out. 523 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,633 That's the big problem with American politics, right? 524 00:22:07,633 --> 00:22:10,166 People just don't even vote. They don't even pay attention. 525 00:22:10,166 --> 00:22:13,300 But what is the power behind your movement 526 00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:17,600 if the the end game already is vote uncommitted 527 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:24,100 in the primary, but vote Biden in in November? 528 00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:27,066 I think if you know, if we can come in second. 529 00:22:27,066 --> 00:22:28,200 Right. 530 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:29,533 If if if you know, 531 00:22:29,533 --> 00:22:33,400 the uncommitted vote comes in second or even does you know, 532 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,533 I don't know what it means getting as many people 533 00:22:35,533 --> 00:22:39,533 as possible to vote for Joe Biden in November regardless. 534 00:22:39,533 --> 00:22:40,533 Right. 535 00:22:40,533 --> 00:22:40,933 Right. 536 00:22:41,733 --> 00:22:44,066 Congressman, has have you talked to the governor 537 00:22:44,066 --> 00:22:46,900 about coming on board with this effort? 538 00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:48,533 No, that would, Tim. 539 00:22:48,533 --> 00:22:51,666 I mean, look, she's a co-chair of the president's 540 00:22:51,666 --> 00:22:52,566 reelection campaign. 541 00:22:52,966 --> 00:22:56,300 That's not realistic or I wouldn't ask her to do that. 542 00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:57,666 You know, she's taken on that role 543 00:22:57,666 --> 00:22:59,166 and she's doing a great job with it. 544 00:22:59,166 --> 00:23:00,666 And I respect that. 545 00:23:00,666 --> 00:23:05,400 I just look, I'm here seeing that the young people. 546 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:05,733 Right. 547 00:23:06,633 --> 00:23:10,033 I have four kids who are, you know, from 18 to 30. 548 00:23:10,033 --> 00:23:13,566 I have all my former staff, many of whom are deeply involved 549 00:23:13,566 --> 00:23:17,266 in this campaign, in the in this effort. 550 00:23:17,266 --> 00:23:20,366 I have my congregation, you know, I've been involved 551 00:23:20,366 --> 00:23:23,266 with young people since I was a student organizer 552 00:23:23,266 --> 00:23:24,900 to when I created Union Summer 553 00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:28,033 for the national AFL-CIO in 1996. 554 00:23:28,033 --> 00:23:30,333 You know. Right. All throughout my life. 555 00:23:30,333 --> 00:23:31,900 And I'm telling you, Tim, 556 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:34,400 young people are really upset about this. 557 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,833 And I don't want to see a situation 558 00:23:36,833 --> 00:23:39,700 like during the Vietnam War where we had this 559 00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:41,100 huge fracturing 560 00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:43,833 that ended up being a problem for a really long time. 561 00:23:43,833 --> 00:23:47,666 I want to help people find their voice, stay in the process 562 00:23:47,666 --> 00:23:51,100 and speak to the president, and I hope a lot of them 563 00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:52,733 will vote for him 564 00:23:52,733 --> 00:23:55,166 when you know when November comes around, 565 00:23:55,166 --> 00:23:56,733 which is quite a few months from now. 566 00:23:56,733 --> 00:23:58,266 And I think I forget who said it, 567 00:23:58,266 --> 00:24:01,233 whether it was I think, Craig or Rick. 568 00:24:01,233 --> 00:24:04,633 But, you know, this is 569 00:24:04,633 --> 00:24:09,133 really a situation where 570 00:24:09,133 --> 00:24:11,833 you have young people 571 00:24:11,833 --> 00:24:15,800 and voters more broadly who are really upset. 572 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,166 And I think if change happens and the alternative on November 573 00:24:20,166 --> 00:24:24,133 5th is Donald Trump or Joe Biden, 574 00:24:24,133 --> 00:24:26,466 they're going to be happy that he changed 575 00:24:26,466 --> 00:24:29,000 their President Biden be led in a different way on this. 576 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,600 But they're all going to also get to look at 577 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,000 if if Donald Trump became 578 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,166 president again, it will be a disaster for the environment. 579 00:24:37,166 --> 00:24:40,166 On climate change. For education. 580 00:24:40,166 --> 00:24:41,466 Sorry, respectfully, though, 581 00:24:41,466 --> 00:24:43,733 I mean, it sounds like the argument, 582 00:24:43,733 --> 00:24:45,566 which I have been hearing from individuals 583 00:24:45,566 --> 00:24:48,900 who are currently supportive of President Biden, which is, 584 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:51,300 well, what are you going to do, vote for Trump? 585 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:52,233 And like, 586 00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:56,133 what what kind of message does that send to these individuals 587 00:24:56,133 --> 00:24:59,300 who are not content with the way that the president 588 00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:02,833 has been handling Gaza, who is not content with the way 589 00:25:02,833 --> 00:25:05,066 of student loan forgiveness of myriad 590 00:25:05,066 --> 00:25:07,166 things that I've heard from from younger voters? 591 00:25:07,166 --> 00:25:08,766 I mean, at the end of the day, 592 00:25:08,766 --> 00:25:10,333 it still sounds like this boils down to, 593 00:25:10,333 --> 00:25:12,066 okay, you can vote uncommitted now, 594 00:25:12,066 --> 00:25:14,633 but what are you going to do come November? Vote Trump? 595 00:25:14,633 --> 00:25:16,033 Which just sort of 596 00:25:16,033 --> 00:25:20,066 to a lot of young people leaves a bad taste in their mouth. 597 00:25:20,066 --> 00:25:21,600 You know, Jordyn I really agree. 598 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,700 I think that the the role that President Biden and Democrats 599 00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:29,100 running for House and Senate and so forth need to play 600 00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:31,000 is both to say 601 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,600 Donald Trump is literally a threat to our democracy. 602 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,100 He is speaking undemocratically and so forth. 603 00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:38,166 He says he will 604 00:25:38,433 --> 00:25:41,833 be a dictator on day one hahaha and all of those things, 605 00:25:41,833 --> 00:25:44,900 but also say, look at what we've done. 606 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:47,600 I mean, we look at what we did 607 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,466 in the Inflation Reduction Act, the biggest 608 00:25:50,466 --> 00:25:54,000 climate change legislation ever and it's being implemented. 609 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,133 Look at what President Biden has done on student loans. 610 00:25:57,133 --> 00:25:59,366 He's actually done more than any other president... 611 00:25:59,366 --> 00:25:59,933 Congressman. 612 00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:03,000 What he hasn't done is because of a Republican Congress. 613 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:03,500 So Congress. 614 00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:05,466 So reelect him and a elect more democrats. 615 00:26:05,466 --> 00:26:09,066 Very, very quickly so are you going to run for Congress again? 616 00:26:09,066 --> 00:26:10,100 Oh, and 617 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:13,400 I'm not running for anything in 2024, Tim. 618 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,733 I don't have any specific plans beyond that. 619 00:26:15,733 --> 00:26:16,333 Thank you, sir. 620 00:26:16,766 --> 00:26:18,033 It was great to have you on our program. 621 00:26:18,033 --> 00:26:20,266 Give our best to your father, please. 622 00:26:20,266 --> 00:26:20,933 I will. 623 00:26:21,333 --> 00:26:23,666 He's 92 and going strong, Tim, and I'll. 624 00:26:23,666 --> 00:26:24,700 I'll tell him you said hi. 625 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:27,100 All right, let's do it next week. 626 00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:28,966 Joe, teach speaker of the House 627 00:26:28,966 --> 00:26:31,033 sitting right there or right here. 628 00:26:31,033 --> 00:26:32,700 See you then. 629 00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:34,966 Production of Off the Record is made possible, 630 00:26:34,966 --> 00:26:38,133 in part by Martin Waymire a full service 631 00:26:38,133 --> 00:26:40,133 strategic communications agency, 632 00:26:40,133 --> 00:26:42,500 partnering with clients through public relations, 633 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:45,433 digital marketing and public policy engagement. 634 00:26:45,433 --> 00:26:48,900 Learn more at MartinWaymire.com. 635 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:52,600 For more Off the Record, visit wkar.org. 636 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,933 Michigan public television stations have contributed 637 00:26:54,933 --> 00:27:45,900 to the production costs of Off the Record.