WEBVTT 00:04.933 --> 00:07.200 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% Thanks for joining us for this next edition of Off 00:07.200 --> 00:08.666 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% the Record with former Democratic 00:08.666 --> 00:10.466 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% congressman from Michigan, Andy Levin, 00:10.466 --> 00:12.700 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% who's been asked to run for president. 00:12.700 --> 00:14.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Our lead story, a battle over 00:14.400 --> 00:16.633 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% freedom of speech in the Michigan House. 00:16.633 --> 00:20.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% On the OTR panel, Craig Mauger, Jordyn Hermani, and Rick Pluta. 00:20.900 --> 00:23.400 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Sit in with us as we get the inside out. 00:23.400 --> 00:26.333 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Off the Record. 00:26.333 --> 00:30.500 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Production of Off the Record is made possible 00:30.500 --> 00:33.666 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% in part by Martin Waymire, a full service 00:33.666 --> 00:35.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% strategic communications agency, 00:35.700 --> 00:38.033 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% partnering with clients through public relations, 00:38.033 --> 00:40.933 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% digital marketing and public policy engagement. 00:40.933 --> 00:44.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Learn more at MartinWaymire.com. 00:44.233 --> 00:49.633 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick. 00:49.633 --> 00:51.366 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% A chatty group here this morning on 00:51.366 --> 00:54.200 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% as we're getting closer to spring, aren't we, guys? 00:54.200 --> 00:55.500 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% Yes, yes, yes, indeed. 00:55.500 --> 00:55.666 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% All right. 00:56.533 --> 00:57.966 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% We're also getting closer to a showdown 00:57.966 --> 00:59.000 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% that we had this week 00:59.000 --> 01:00.833 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% in the Michigan House regarding a state 01:00.833 --> 01:03.166 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% representative, Josh Schriver of Oxford. 01:03.166 --> 01:05.433 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% What did he allegedly do wrong? 01:05.433 --> 01:08.333 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Well, he amplified a social media post 01:08.333 --> 01:13.700 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% from a more right wing commentator to keep it brief. 01:13.700 --> 01:16.233 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% This is called the Great Replacement Theory. 01:16.233 --> 01:19.100 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Or he basically retweeted a chart, 01:19.100 --> 01:22.500 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% showed a bunch of little white people on it 01:22.500 --> 01:25.866 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% and many, many more little black people on it. 01:25.866 --> 01:27.900 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And basically, Shriver retweeted this 01:27.900 --> 01:31.900 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and with a bar chart or a bar graph going down, 01:31.900 --> 01:35.700 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% implying that, you know, I don't even know he's... 01:35.700 --> 01:39.966 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% The great replacement theory is and it's widely debunked is 01:39.966 --> 01:45.866 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% that elites are trying to organize a systemic people 01:45.866 --> 01:49.866 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% replacement of white people with people of color. 01:50.066 --> 01:53.233 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% And it's ridiculous but it literal means 01:53.233 --> 01:54.733 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% that's the other part of the theory. 01:54.733 --> 01:56.166 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% It's not just, hey, 01:56.166 --> 01:58.433 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% there are demographic trends happening here. 01:58.433 --> 01:59.233 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% It's that there is 01:59.666 --> 02:03.333 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% someone puppeteering this to bring in minorities, 02:03.333 --> 02:06.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% to have a political wins for Democrats ultimately. 02:06.766 --> 02:07.966 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And that is what the very 02:07.966 --> 02:11.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% radical diminished the I don't know, social effects 02:11.066 --> 02:12.066 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% of white people. 02:12.066 --> 02:13.700 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% It's it's just absolutely ridiculous 02:13.700 --> 02:15.200 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% and so paranoid conspiracy theory 02:15.200 --> 02:18.200 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% that has no merit and was pretty soundly 02:18.200 --> 02:21.133 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% rebuked by Democrats in the Michigan House 02:21.133 --> 02:24.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% led by the House Speaker, Joe Tate, who did what as a result? 02:24.700 --> 02:29.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Removed him from his committees, took his office assignment, 02:29.933 --> 02:33.233 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% and, you know, basically said that 02:33.233 --> 02:38.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the only right that he still has as a state 02:38.000 --> 02:41.300 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% representative is to introduce legislation 02:41.300 --> 02:44.100 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and vote on legislation in the floor. 02:44.100 --> 02:45.833 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Well, that he has a desk somewhere. 02:45.833 --> 02:47.466 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% The defenders of the representatives 02:47.466 --> 02:49.666 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% say basically the speaker neutered him 02:49.666 --> 02:50.900 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% back in his district. 02:50.900 --> 02:53.500 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% He's unable to really represent his constituents. 02:53.500 --> 02:55.466 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% Yeah, that's what some of the defenders say. 02:55.466 --> 02:57.233 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I mean, meanwhile, 02:57.233 --> 03:00.333 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Josh Schriver is getting a growing social media presence. 03:00.333 --> 03:01.666 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I was at the Oakland County 03:01.666 --> 03:03.800 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% Republican Party convention last night. 03:03.800 --> 03:05.466 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% He gets up and gives a speech. 03:05.466 --> 03:07.533 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% And, you know, I'm standing in another room 03:07.533 --> 03:10.866 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and I hear someone say, we are being invaded. 03:10.866 --> 03:12.900 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% That's what Josh Schriver tells this crowd. 03:12.900 --> 03:15.700 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% And the reception was overwhelmingly positive 03:15.700 --> 03:18.533 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to Josh Schriver at the Oakland County convention last night. 03:18.533 --> 03:20.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% So you can kind of see 03:20.066 --> 03:22.766 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% the place we are in our politics right now 03:22.766 --> 03:27.733 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% where there's almost an incentive to give air to these 03:27.733 --> 03:31.766 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% incredibly false conspiracy theories because of how extreme 03:31.766 --> 03:34.266 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% some of the individuals at the base, bases 03:34.266 --> 03:36.066 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% of both political parties have become. 03:36.066 --> 03:37.866 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% But it's interesting, though, because you 03:37.866 --> 03:41.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% you have obviously Democrats widely rebuked this, 03:41.000 --> 03:42.366 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% but you do have some pushback 03:42.366 --> 03:46.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% from his own colleagues in the Michigan House in 98 to 5 03:46.066 --> 03:49.466 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% vote out a resolution that didn't mention him by name. 03:49.466 --> 03:50.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I think that's the key here. 03:50.900 --> 03:54.333 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% The resolution, it was not a rebuke of Schriver directly. 03:54.533 --> 03:56.433 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And you wonder if they put Josh Schriver's 03:56.433 --> 03:59.533 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% name in that resolution and what he actually did. 03:59.533 --> 04:01.766 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% What would the vote have been on that? 04:01.766 --> 04:03.400 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% We don't we don't know. 04:03.400 --> 04:05.300 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% But I think what you're getting at 04:05.300 --> 04:09.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% is that now there is attention focused on Josh Schriver, 04:09.600 --> 04:10.966 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% that there is attention. 04:10.966 --> 04:17.000 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% We're talking about it now on on what he said and and it's 04:17.000 --> 04:17.500 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% you know, that 04:18.266 --> 04:20.466 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% that like you said, you know, the tweet amplified it 04:20.466 --> 04:24.500 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% and now does the discussion and amplify it even more. 04:24.500 --> 04:27.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Well, other of his defenses, yes. Okay. 04:27.166 --> 04:31.433 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% But the other his other defenders have said free speech. 04:31.433 --> 04:34.000 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% No, no. That's how the legislature is now. 04:34.000 --> 04:34.633 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% All right. 04:35.033 --> 04:36.133 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% This is something that's been kind of 04:36.133 --> 04:37.966 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% getting under my skin, the concept of people 04:37.966 --> 04:39.633 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% yelling, well, this is free speech. Sure. 04:39.633 --> 04:43.100 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% He has every ability to say to amplify whatever he wants. 04:43.100 --> 04:46.533 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% That is not freedom from consequences. 04:46.533 --> 04:49.066 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% So the consequence here, obviously, 04:49.066 --> 04:49.333 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% you know, 04:50.166 --> 04:50.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% when we talk about free speech, it's freedom 04:51.200 --> 04:53.066 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% from the government coming after you. 04:53.066 --> 04:55.433 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I understand the irony here, him being a House Rep. 04:55.433 --> 04:56.900 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% So this is quite literally, 04:56.900 --> 04:58.700 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% you know, the government coming after him. 04:58.700 --> 04:59.933 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% But this is also his job. 04:59.933 --> 05:02.300 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% This is no different than a boss telling you, hey, 05:02.300 --> 05:04.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% you made a really poor mistake 05:04.166 --> 05:05.800 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% in putting out this social media post. 05:05.800 --> 05:07.633 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% It reflects poorly on our values. 05:07.633 --> 05:09.566 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% So we're going to have to demote you. 05:09.566 --> 05:10.700 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% We're going to have to pay. 05:10.700 --> 05:11.866 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% We're going to have to do something. 05:11.866 --> 05:13.833 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% That's what's going on here. 05:13.833 --> 05:16.000 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% So the speaker is the boss of the House, 05:16.000 --> 05:18.733 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% but his constituents are the one who elected him 05:18.733 --> 05:21.733 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and who have the power to hire and fire him. 05:21.733 --> 05:26.633 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And as the the person in charge of the house, Joe Tate 05:26.633 --> 05:28.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and the Democratic leadership 05:28.233 --> 05:32.233 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% have to thread a needle, which is at what point. 05:32.233 --> 05:36.633 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% At what point does someone espousing an unpopular 05:36.633 --> 05:40.733 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% view and in this case a ridiculous or ridiculous view, 05:40.733 --> 05:44.566 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% cross the line from representing a particular 05:44.566 --> 05:48.433 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% point of view of the people who sent you there to something 05:48.433 --> 05:50.900 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% that is so toxic that 05:50.900 --> 05:54.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% it needs to be dealt with and, you know, Joe Tate of 05:54.400 --> 05:56.366 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% and the House Democratic leadership, 05:56.366 --> 05:59.266 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% obviously, you know, said to Josh Schriver, 05:59.266 --> 06:00.933 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% this is where you crossed the line. 06:00.933 --> 06:02.066 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Well, and I don't want to take away 06:02.066 --> 06:03.966 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% from the fact that we're treating this as this 06:03.966 --> 06:05.633 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% this is something that's unfounded. 06:05.633 --> 06:06.833 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% I mean, even within the last decade, 06:06.833 --> 06:08.666 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% if I remember correctly, Larry Inman 06:08.666 --> 06:12.500 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% had his staff stripped from him like several years ago. 06:12.500 --> 06:13.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% But this is not the first time. 06:13.733 --> 06:14.800 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% This is not the first time. 06:15.000 --> 06:17.233 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% And that was led by a Republican House at that point. 06:17.233 --> 06:18.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% So this is pretty common 06:18.766 --> 06:20.500 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% in terms of why we shouldn't say comment. 06:20.500 --> 06:23.766 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% But it is sort of the the method of operation 06:23.766 --> 06:26.266 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% for rebuking if you do have a lawmaker. 06:26.266 --> 06:27.433 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Yeah, it's not unprecedented. 06:27.433 --> 06:27.966 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% We can't. 06:28.900 --> 06:30.500 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Like, I just I feel like that's also kind of being lost in here 06:30.500 --> 06:33.533 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% is people saying, well, you're disenfranchising his voters. 06:33.533 --> 06:35.900 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% He he did that. 06:35.900 --> 06:38.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Well, we should also point out, just because you opened 06:38.933 --> 06:43.333 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the door on that is that it's not that his constituents 06:43.333 --> 06:45.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% because constituent service is something 06:45.133 --> 06:48.200 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% that a representative is expected to do. 06:48.200 --> 06:51.566 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% That constituent services still exist. 06:51.566 --> 06:54.633 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% It's just being handled now by the House 06:54.633 --> 06:57.500 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% instead of specifically by Josh Shriver's office. 06:57.500 --> 06:59.866 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% So the question it is where the real chairperson 06:59.866 --> 07:02.566 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% of the Republican Party, please stand up. 07:02.566 --> 07:04.700 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% I again, I think this is the second time 07:04.700 --> 07:05.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I've been on the show and said this. 07:05.733 --> 07:07.900 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I don't want to say who is the chair 07:07.900 --> 07:09.466 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% because I don't really know right now. 07:09.466 --> 07:10.366 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% But we do 07:10.700 --> 07:12.566 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% understand that the Republicans National Committee 07:12.566 --> 07:14.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% believes that it's Pete Hoekstra. 07:14.566 --> 07:16.966 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Christina Karamo believes that she's the chair 07:16.966 --> 07:18.433 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% of the Michigan Republican Party. 07:18.433 --> 07:22.800 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% And what to watch here is what occurs on March 2nd. 07:22.800 --> 07:26.300 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% March 2nd is the date of the presidential caucuses 07:26.300 --> 07:27.066 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% for Republicans. 07:27.633 --> 07:30.366 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Republican delegates are scheduled to gather in Detroit. 07:30.366 --> 07:34.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% That is a meeting that's been organized by Christina Karamo. 07:34.166 --> 07:36.633 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% How does Pete Hoekstra handle that meeting? 07:36.633 --> 07:39.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Does he have a separate caucus for his people? 07:39.733 --> 07:42.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% You asked him that question. He didn't really. 07:42.233 --> 07:44.200 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% He said he was going to run the meeting. Right. 07:44.200 --> 07:46.433 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Which is he going to walk in and take a gavel 07:46.433 --> 07:47.966 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% out of Christina Karamo's hands? 07:47.966 --> 07:48.433 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Well. 07:49.233 --> 07:51.600 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Or will Christina Karamo, come in and take the gavel 07:51.600 --> 07:53.466 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% out of Pete Hoekstras hand? Thats exactly possible. 07:53.466 --> 07:56.633 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% But she did say in her statement that if the courts 07:56.633 --> 08:00.633 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% ordered her out, she, quote, did not want to go to jail. 08:00.633 --> 08:04.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% So does that if the courts act before March two, it's 08:04.233 --> 08:06.500 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% null and void what you just presented? 08:06.500 --> 08:07.266 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Completely true. 08:07.533 --> 08:09.266 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% But what does it mean if the courts act? 08:09.266 --> 08:10.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% Do you feel, Christine 08:10.566 --> 08:12.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Karamo will take a court order from Kent County Circuit 08:12.933 --> 08:14.433 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% and say it's over, I'm going home now? 08:14.433 --> 08:15.733 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Or will she have She'll. 08:15.733 --> 08:17.700 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Well, don't want to go to jail for. 08:17.700 --> 08:20.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Don't she appeal that? Right. 08:20.100 --> 08:22.733 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% That Christina Karamo, part of her argument 08:22.733 --> 08:26.766 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% is that the judicial system, which the Kent County Circuit 08:26.766 --> 08:28.600 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Court is part of, 08:28.600 --> 08:32.633 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% doesn't have jurisdiction over an internal party matter. 08:32.633 --> 08:36.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And I think you nailed it that she that that in all likelihood 08:37.100 --> 08:41.966 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% there will be appeals and will the will 08:41.966 --> 08:47.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% those appeals play out in time for it to be activated 08:47.666 --> 08:50.833 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% for the primaries and the caucuses? 08:50.833 --> 08:54.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% My expectation is that there will either be one caucus 08:54.566 --> 08:55.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% where everyone gathers 08:55.833 --> 08:58.600 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and there's a vote on who's chair, Karamo or Hoekstra, 08:58.600 --> 09:00.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% or there will be two caucuses, 09:00.166 --> 09:02.200 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% one in Detroit, one somewhere else, 09:02.200 --> 09:04.666 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% and we'll see which caucus gets more delegates. 09:04.666 --> 09:06.733 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% That's my that's also not unprecedented. 09:06.733 --> 09:08.533 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Although, Tim, you would remember this, I think 09:08.533 --> 09:12.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% it was 1987 when the Republicans were preparing 09:12.933 --> 09:16.566 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to send separate delegations to the national convention. 09:16.566 --> 09:17.133 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% And then 09:17.566 --> 09:18.966 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% it was up to the national convention 09:18.966 --> 09:21.533 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% to determine is the Pat Robertson thing. 09:21.533 --> 09:21.900 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Yeah. 09:22.833 --> 09:25.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% And there was actually there was a deal made beforehand 09:25.066 --> 09:28.900 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% over, you know, how many delegates each 09:28.900 --> 09:30.900 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% you know, each faction got to send. 09:30.900 --> 09:33.966 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% Well, see, so does this stuff get in the way 09:33.966 --> 09:37.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% of Peter Hoekstra putting Humpty Dumpty back together again? 09:37.166 --> 09:39.633 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% In terms of the Republican Party? Party Yes. 09:39.633 --> 09:41.533 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I mean, absolutely. 09:41.533 --> 09:45.233 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% You still have a sect of of Karamo supporters 09:45.233 --> 09:48.833 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% who are behind her every stretch of the way. 09:48.833 --> 09:50.600 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I think that a part of this is going to also maybe 09:50.600 --> 09:53.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% come down to we talked about, you know, the RNC. 09:53.066 --> 09:54.633 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% They've recognized Hoekstra 09:54.633 --> 09:57.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% as the chair of the Michigan Republican Party. 09:57.100 --> 09:59.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% So maybe we're putting a lot of pontificating behind this that, 09:59.933 --> 10:00.400 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% you know, 10:00.833 --> 10:01.733 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% once those delegates get sent out, 10:01.733 --> 10:03.400 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% if they only recognize his faction, 10:03.400 --> 10:05.566 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% is that not as good as done for her? 10:05.566 --> 10:06.166 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% I mean, 10:07.000 --> 10:08.766 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% she can keep holding meetings, she can keep showing up places. 10:08.766 --> 10:10.300 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% She can keep saying she's chair. 10:10.300 --> 10:13.366 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% But if everybody else is not acknowledging that reality, 10:13.566 --> 10:15.066 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% she's as good as you were. 10:15.066 --> 10:18.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Me saying that we're chair of the Michigan Republican party. 10:18.000 --> 10:20.933 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% The bigger impact is in terms of fundraising. 10:20.933 --> 10:22.500 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% And we've already seen, you know, 10:22.500 --> 10:24.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the Michigan House Republicans 10:24.100 --> 10:28.466 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% set up a parallel system for doing their own fundraising. 10:28.733 --> 10:32.300 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% Does it affect fundraising and does it affect organizing 10:32.500 --> 10:34.800 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% and does it create disenchantment 10:34.800 --> 10:38.200 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% within the coalition that will affect election? 10:38.200 --> 10:40.300 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% Mr. Hoekstra has already made the phone calls 10:40.300 --> 10:44.333 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% for the major funders to the the former chair, Bobby Shostak. 10:44.333 --> 10:45.533 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% To Mr. Weiser. 10:45.533 --> 10:46.300 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% The bank account, 10:46.800 --> 10:49.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% not the checkbooks, are going to start to open for Mr. 10:49.400 --> 10:50.366 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% Hoekstra. 10:50.666 --> 10:53.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% They will, but what account will they be going into? 10:53.066 --> 10:54.766 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% Because Christina currently right now 10:54.766 --> 10:57.333 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% is controlling the bank accounts from everything that I know 10:57.333 --> 10:58.866 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% she has, the party's website. Mr. 10:58.866 --> 11:00.433 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Mauger open up another bank account. 11:00.433 --> 11:01.833 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% You can open up another bank account. 11:01.833 --> 11:04.066 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% But with the FEC, the official Michigan 11:04.066 --> 11:06.700 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Republican Party account is under the control. 11:06.700 --> 11:09.566 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% From what I understand at this moment of Christina Karamo. 11:09.566 --> 11:10.366 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Mm hmm. 11:10.366 --> 11:10.566 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Yeah. 11:11.500 --> 11:12.333 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% So, I mean, its not as simple as just open up 11:12.633 --> 11:14.833 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% another bank account, you know, and, you know, 11:14.833 --> 11:16.533 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% who are the bills being sent to 11:16.533 --> 11:18.466 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% and who is expected to pay the bills? 11:18.466 --> 11:20.600 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% Just all kinds of complex. There's a risk. 11:20.600 --> 11:23.666 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% I think there's there is a political risk here 11:23.666 --> 11:26.333 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% to Donald Trump and what he has done on this. 11:26.333 --> 11:27.900 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% The people that are with Christina 11:27.900 --> 11:30.100 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Karamo, are a lot of those grassroots 11:30.100 --> 11:34.200 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% activists that will go out and knock doors for 10 hours. 11:34.200 --> 11:37.900 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% And Trump is really risking alienating these people 11:37.900 --> 11:40.200 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% to some degree by what he's done with Hoekstra. 11:40.200 --> 11:43.266 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% For people that don't follow this he endorsed her for this 11:43.266 --> 11:48.333 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% job. And Christina Karamo is saying to her, 11:48.333 --> 11:50.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the people who are following her, that Donald Trump 11:50.600 --> 11:51.500 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% got it wrong. 11:51.500 --> 11:51.933 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Yeah. 11:52.500 --> 11:54.800 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And remember that there's you know, 11:54.800 --> 11:56.866 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% there's there are three ways to vote. 11:56.866 --> 11:59.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% There is to get out and vote for one side. 11:59.400 --> 12:01.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% There is getting out and voting for the other side. 12:01.933 --> 12:04.166 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% And then there's not voting at all. 12:04.166 --> 12:06.900 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And quickly, was anybody surprised that a guy dropped 12:06.900 --> 12:10.166 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% out of the US Senate race by the name of 12:10.166 --> 12:12.133 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% James Craig? Yeah, I. 12:12.133 --> 12:13.700 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I am not surprised. 12:13.700 --> 12:16.200 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% I'm surprised it happened so soon. 12:16.200 --> 12:17.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% And and I'm surprised 12:17.933 --> 12:19.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% that he's looking at running for mayor of Detroit. 12:19.900 --> 12:21.833 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% That was the beauty of that story. 12:21.833 --> 12:26.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% It's amazing how James Craig just can't give up and go away. 12:26.100 --> 12:28.833 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% It didn't you know, it didn't happen and we're sorry. 12:28.833 --> 12:30.366 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Well he did go away, that was a problem hes not running. 12:30.366 --> 12:32.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% And then he came back. He disappeared. Yeah. 12:32.566 --> 12:34.700 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% And a lot of people aren't surprised by it and say, 12:34.700 --> 12:37.733 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% you know, his campaign was it was struggling and failing. 12:37.733 --> 12:40.500 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% But in the polls, the polls that were available, 12:40.500 --> 12:43.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% he was one of the lead GOP candidates for this job. 12:43.066 --> 12:44.866 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% He still had his fingers crossed with Donald 12:44.866 --> 12:46.700 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Trump would say that didn't happen. 12:46.700 --> 12:49.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% All right, let's call in Andy Levin, Mr. 12:49.233 --> 12:51.266 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Levin, welcome to Off the Record. 12:51.266 --> 12:53.200 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% You smiled when we did the Senate 12:53.200 --> 12:55.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the open that they asked you to run for president. 12:55.400 --> 12:58.800 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% That is true, is it not? The progressives, 12:58.800 --> 13:00.866 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Tim? I haven't been able to talk about that 13:00.866 --> 13:04.133 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% without cracking up, but yeah, yes, true. 13:04.133 --> 13:04.866 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% They did. 13:04.866 --> 13:05.766 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% They did. Okay. 13:06.033 --> 13:09.333 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% So assuming that they try to find somebody else 13:09.333 --> 13:10.733 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% to send a message to Mr. 13:10.733 --> 13:13.333 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Biden, are they basically committing 13:13.333 --> 13:17.200 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% political suicide by going that route, sir? 13:17.200 --> 13:20.533 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% No. Well, now you see what's happening here in Michigan. 13:20.533 --> 13:23.533 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I mean, basically, I ended up having like a zoom 13:23.533 --> 13:25.033 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% meeting with these folks. 13:25.033 --> 13:28.400 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% They were very impressive political professionals, 13:28.400 --> 13:30.833 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% professors from different places. 13:30.833 --> 13:35.466 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Tim, They are really concerned that Joe Biden can't win 13:35.700 --> 13:39.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Michigan and the presidency, the Electoral College 13:39.133 --> 13:43.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% in November unless he changes course on Gaza. 13:43.600 --> 13:47.933 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% And now you've seen that transmogrify into the, 13:47.933 --> 13:49.666 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% you know, listen to Michigan campaign, 13:49.666 --> 13:53.366 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% which is saying to voters who are upset, 13:53.366 --> 13:56.233 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% you know, don't stay home, don't vote for my friend, 13:56.233 --> 13:58.500 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% former colleague Dean Phillips or whatever. 13:58.500 --> 14:02.366 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% Come out and vote, participate in the process 14:02.366 --> 14:04.533 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% and have your voice heard on February 27th 14:04.533 --> 14:06.300 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and vote uncommitted 14:06.300 --> 14:09.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% so you can express your anger to the president 14:09.400 --> 14:13.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and say, is that a wrongheaded strategy to vote uncommitted? 14:13.600 --> 14:14.900 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% I really don't think so. 14:14.900 --> 14:19.400 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I mean, for one thing, remember in 2008, Barack Obama 14:19.400 --> 14:20.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% couldn't get on the ballot here 14:20.666 --> 14:25.200 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% and 40% of people voted uncommitted, including me, 14:25.200 --> 14:28.833 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% because we we wanted Barack Obama, not Hillary Clinton. 14:28.833 --> 14:30.300 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I mean, which is fine. 14:30.300 --> 14:33.033 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% People who wanted Hillary, fine people wanted a Barack. 14:33.033 --> 14:36.366 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% But, you know, it was a good strategy for him then. 14:36.366 --> 14:40.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I I doubt uncommitted is going to get 40% because it's 14:40.166 --> 14:41.800 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% not a similar situation. Right. 14:41.800 --> 14:45.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Representing a major political, you know, candidate. 14:45.133 --> 14:48.000 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% But my goal is for 14:48.000 --> 14:51.100 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% Joe Biden to win on November 5th. 14:51.100 --> 14:53.766 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% And Tim, if you start doing the arithmetic right, he won 14:53.766 --> 14:57.566 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% by 150,000 votes in 2020. 14:57.566 --> 15:00.466 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% If you take out Arab-Americans, 15:00.466 --> 15:04.266 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% if you take out Muslims more broadly, if you take out 15:04.266 --> 15:08.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% voters of color more broadly, if you take out young voters, 15:08.133 --> 15:10.000 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% I don't see how we can get there. 15:10.000 --> 15:12.366 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And we must win on November 5th. 15:12.366 --> 15:15.866 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I am really strong for Joe Biden on November 5th, 15:16.100 --> 15:18.966 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% but I think this is actually a really smart strategy 15:18.966 --> 15:22.500 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to engage people and get them in the process and say, 15:22.500 --> 15:23.866 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% express yourself, 15:23.866 --> 15:26.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% because I literally don't think we can win unless he does 15:26.933 --> 15:27.966 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% change course. 15:27.966 --> 15:28.600 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% So this will 15:28.933 --> 15:30.400 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% hopefully, like help send a message, 15:30.400 --> 15:33.066 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% but also it keeps those people in the game. 15:33.066 --> 15:35.266 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% But no matter what, I mean, you could call it 15:35.266 --> 15:37.666 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% uncommitted, you can call it whatever 15:37.666 --> 15:43.033 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% that this is essentially an anti Biden strategy, 15:43.033 --> 15:46.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% that it is taking the president to task 15:46.400 --> 15:50.600 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% for something that you're unhappy with. 15:50.600 --> 15:55.300 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And I mean, isn't that still a 15:55.300 --> 15:58.766 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% a Biden suppression effort because you're 15:58.766 --> 16:00.066 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% not getting what you want? 16:00.066 --> 16:02.833 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% What if the president doesn't turn around and do that? 16:02.833 --> 16:05.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I mean, that's going to affect your prospects on November 5th, 16:05.900 --> 16:09.833 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% when turnout is critical to what happens in that election? 16:09.833 --> 16:11.533 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Alright two things, Rick. 16:11.533 --> 16:12.866 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% Number one, 16:12.866 --> 16:15.533 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the people who are going to vote uncommitted, it's not as 16:15.533 --> 16:18.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% if they were going to go vote for Joe Biden on the 27th. 16:18.666 --> 16:19.900 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% You know, they were going to stay home 16:19.900 --> 16:21.400 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% or vote for third party or whatever. 16:21.400 --> 16:23.500 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% I think both of those are worse options. 16:23.500 --> 16:26.966 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% But the other thing is, when my wife takes me to task 16:26.966 --> 16:30.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% for something I did wrong, or we do that with each other 16:30.133 --> 16:32.700 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% as friends, as lovers, as spouses, 16:32.700 --> 16:35.100 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% you know, really, we care about each other. 16:35.100 --> 16:38.966 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% That doesn't mean I'm against my wife or she's against me. 16:38.966 --> 16:40.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% It means we have an honest, 16:40.400 --> 16:43.133 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% deep relationship and we care about each other. 16:43.133 --> 16:44.600 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And, you know, if you have a friend 16:44.600 --> 16:46.566 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% who's an alcoholic, you better confront them. 16:46.566 --> 16:47.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% You better say, Hey, 16:47.933 --> 16:50.266 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% you know, pal, I'm not going to give you money. 16:50.266 --> 16:51.666 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% I'm not going to buy you another drink, 16:51.666 --> 16:53.233 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% whatever the situation is. Right. 16:53.233 --> 16:55.566 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I'm going to be honest with you. We got to leave this bar 16:55.566 --> 16:57.566 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% right now and I'm taking you home. 16:57.566 --> 16:59.533 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% I mean, that's being a good friend. 16:59.533 --> 17:00.033 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% So you 17:00.533 --> 17:02.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% you bring up the youth vote, you bring up 17:02.666 --> 17:04.366 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% the Muslim-American vote. 17:04.366 --> 17:08.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I mean, in your mind, what does the Biden campaign 17:08.166 --> 17:11.300 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% have to do, if anything, frankly? 17:11.300 --> 17:13.166 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I mean, I've heard from a number of young voters 17:13.166 --> 17:16.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% saying that it's passed the point of no return for them. 17:16.066 --> 17:17.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% They can't stomach the thought 17:17.500 --> 17:20.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% of voting for Biden in November, even though they voted for him 17:20.600 --> 17:21.666 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% in 2020. 17:21.900 --> 17:25.100 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% So I guess, what do you see as the course of action here 17:25.100 --> 17:29.000 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% to get these voters potentially back on the wagon? 17:29.000 --> 17:30.433 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Yeah, Jordyn great question. 17:30.433 --> 17:34.533 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% And I don't think that the political advisors 17:34.533 --> 17:35.500 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% can do anything. 17:35.766 --> 17:39.000 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I don't think this is about really great messaging 17:39.000 --> 17:43.400 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% or smart advertising or anything like that. 17:43.400 --> 17:45.566 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% We need to change course. 17:45.566 --> 17:50.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Joe Biden, this most experienced foreign policy president 17:50.000 --> 17:51.266 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% in a long time, 17:51.266 --> 17:54.433 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% longtime chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 17:54.433 --> 17:58.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% who's known as every Israeli leader, going back to, 17:58.000 --> 18:00.566 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% you know, Golda Meir, who knew Arafat, 18:00.566 --> 18:04.866 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% he needs to step up and be a peacemaker 18:04.866 --> 18:08.066 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% and really exert American leadership. 18:08.066 --> 18:12.133 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% Call the EU and Egypt and Jordan together and hold 18:12.133 --> 18:16.533 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% a diplomatic summit and say the carnage needs to end 18:16.533 --> 18:19.100 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% the destruction of Gaza needs to end. 18:19.100 --> 18:20.966 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% There is no military solution 18:20.966 --> 18:23.066 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. 18:23.066 --> 18:25.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% The occupation needs to end. 18:25.100 --> 18:27.300 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% We are going to do the really hard work 18:27.300 --> 18:30.833 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% of getting you Palestinians and Israelis together and saying 18:30.833 --> 18:33.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% somehow you both deserve self-determination. 18:33.433 --> 18:36.166 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% You both deserve your human and political rights. 18:36.166 --> 18:37.600 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% We're going to insist 18:37.600 --> 18:40.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% now that you come up with a way to live together 18:40.666 --> 18:43.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% on this little piece of holy land 18:43.166 --> 18:46.633 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% that we all care about so much and that you all deserve 18:46.633 --> 18:47.633 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% to live in. 18:47.633 --> 18:49.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And I think the president can do that. 18:49.900 --> 18:54.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I expect he will be taking steps that to really change things. 18:54.900 --> 18:56.600 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% And Jordan, you know, the question is 18:56.600 --> 18:59.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% how many people are just mad and how many people are? 18:59.000 --> 19:00.700 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% I forget, how would you put it exactly? 19:00.700 --> 19:04.033 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Very well, you know, beyond, you know, return or something. 19:04.033 --> 19:07.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I think that a lot of these voters 19:07.400 --> 19:10.466 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% will come back and support Joe Biden in November 19:10.466 --> 19:14.466 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% as long as as we really change course here. 19:14.466 --> 19:17.433 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% We need all those hostages freed in exchange for, 19:17.433 --> 19:20.433 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% you know, freeing a lot of Palestinian prisoners. 19:20.433 --> 19:22.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And we need to really move in 19:22.666 --> 19:26.466 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% in a much more muscular American leadership direction. 19:26.466 --> 19:28.333 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And I think he needs to do that to win. 19:28.333 --> 19:29.433 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% Look, I think he's been 19:29.433 --> 19:31.800 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% a great president in a lot of other ways. 19:31.800 --> 19:34.666 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% You know, how proud was I in the 117th Congress 19:34.666 --> 19:35.833 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% to work with him 19:35.833 --> 19:38.866 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% to pass the kind of investing in America agenda, 19:39.100 --> 19:41.766 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% really to have a kind of industrial policy 19:41.766 --> 19:44.166 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% in this country for the first time in a long time? 19:44.166 --> 19:44.766 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% Really... 19:44.766 --> 19:46.200 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% For the people 19:46.200 --> 19:49.833 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% who you referenced who aren't going to come back to Joe Biden. 19:49.833 --> 19:52.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% There are people in this state who I have spoken to 19:52.600 --> 19:54.566 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% who said they will not vote for Joe Biden 19:54.566 --> 19:57.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% no matter what he does now in November. 19:57.133 --> 19:58.666 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I wanted to ask you this question. 19:58.666 --> 20:01.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% In your mind, who would handle the conflict in Israel better, 20:01.933 --> 20:05.600 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% Donald Trump or Joe Biden over the next four years? 20:05.600 --> 20:07.500 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% No, it's an obvious one. 20:07.500 --> 20:10.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Of course, Joe Biden will be much better than Donald Trump. 20:10.933 --> 20:13.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% Look at the horrifying things Mr. 20:13.566 --> 20:16.000 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% Trump just said about our European 20:16.000 --> 20:17.233 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% allies, like pay up 20:17.233 --> 20:19.800 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% or I'm going to encourage Russia to invade you. 20:19.800 --> 20:21.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I mean, that's insane. 20:21.066 --> 20:23.800 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% It's unhinged and it's un-American. 20:23.800 --> 20:24.566 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And Joe Biden.. 20:25.033 --> 20:26.400 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Do you have any concerns that you're stoking that. 20:26.400 --> 20:28.633 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% That's your viewpoint over the next four years. 20:28.633 --> 20:30.500 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Do you have any concerns that the approach 20:30.500 --> 20:33.533 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% that you and others, a lot of elected Democrats in 20:33.533 --> 20:37.866 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% the state are orchestrating in the primary could hurt 20:37.866 --> 20:39.433 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% Joe Biden in November? 20:39.433 --> 20:40.733 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I'm trying to get at 20:40.733 --> 20:43.633 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% what is the ultimate outcome of the strategy in your mind. 20:43.633 --> 20:46.666 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% The best case scenario is that he changes his stance. 20:46.666 --> 20:49.366 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% But isn't there also a risk that potentially 20:49.366 --> 20:50.766 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% he loses in November 20:50.766 --> 20:55.466 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% because of the, you know, ire that this is creating right now? 20:55.466 --> 20:57.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% The ire is not being created 20:57.133 --> 20:59.066 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% by the vote uncommitted, committed campaign. 20:59.066 --> 21:01.366 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And with all due respect, Craig, you all are 21:01.366 --> 21:03.966 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% bunch of really amazing political reporters. 21:03.966 --> 21:06.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I'm a movement organizer, right? 21:06.233 --> 21:08.100 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I come out of the labor movement, environment, 21:08.100 --> 21:09.933 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% environmental movement and so forth. 21:09.933 --> 21:13.666 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% I am talking to these folks every day 21:13.666 --> 21:18.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and helping them find their voice, encouraging them, 21:18.166 --> 21:20.933 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% keeping them active instead of checking out 21:20.933 --> 21:23.633 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% is really a great way 21:23.633 --> 21:27.633 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% to help Joe Biden win in November, 21:27.633 --> 21:31.766 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% because they will feel good if he really changes. 21:31.766 --> 21:33.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% They will feel like, yes, we got out there, 21:33.766 --> 21:36.400 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% we set our peace and we were heard. 21:36.400 --> 21:37.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I mean, this is really in a way, 21:37.700 --> 21:39.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% this is what democracy is about. 21:39.400 --> 21:41.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Democracy isn't just voting. 21:41.100 --> 21:43.066 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Democracy is organizing, 21:43.066 --> 21:44.900 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% coming together with you, fellow citizens. 21:44.900 --> 21:47.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I mean, it's a beautiful thing that's happening. 21:47.166 --> 21:48.233 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% Young Jews, 21:48.433 --> 21:51.433 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% young Arab-Americans, Christian mainline Protestants, 21:51.666 --> 21:56.666 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% the people involved in this are really activated. 21:56.666 --> 22:00.633 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% And I feel like this can really help Joe Biden. 22:00.633 --> 22:01.933 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Doing nothing. 22:01.933 --> 22:03.466 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% But doing nothing just leads to 22:03.466 --> 22:05.400 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% cynicism and people checking out. 22:05.400 --> 22:07.633 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% That's the big problem with American politics, right? 22:07.633 --> 22:10.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% People just don't even vote. They don't even pay attention. 22:10.166 --> 22:13.300 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% But what is the power behind your movement 22:13.300 --> 22:17.600 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% if the the end game already is vote uncommitted 22:17.600 --> 22:24.100 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% in the primary, but vote Biden in in November? 22:24.100 --> 22:27.066 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% I think if you know, if we can come in second. 22:27.066 --> 22:28.200 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Right. 22:28.200 --> 22:29.533 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% If if if you know, 22:29.533 --> 22:33.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the uncommitted vote comes in second or even does you know, 22:33.600 --> 22:35.533 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I don't know what it means getting as many people 22:35.533 --> 22:39.533 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% as possible to vote for Joe Biden in November regardless. 22:39.533 --> 22:40.533 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Right. 22:40.533 --> 22:40.933 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Right. 22:41.733 --> 22:44.066 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Congressman, has have you talked to the governor 22:44.066 --> 22:46.900 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% about coming on board with this effort? 22:46.900 --> 22:48.533 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% No, that would, Tim. 22:48.533 --> 22:51.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I mean, look, she's a co-chair of the president's 22:51.666 --> 22:52.566 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% reelection campaign. 22:52.966 --> 22:56.300 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% That's not realistic or I wouldn't ask her to do that. 22:56.300 --> 22:57.666 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% You know, she's taken on that role 22:57.666 --> 22:59.166 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% and she's doing a great job with it. 22:59.166 --> 23:00.666 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% And I respect that. 23:00.666 --> 23:05.400 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I just look, I'm here seeing that the young people. 23:05.400 --> 23:05.733 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Right. 23:06.633 --> 23:10.033 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% I have four kids who are, you know, from 18 to 30. 23:10.033 --> 23:13.566 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I have all my former staff, many of whom are deeply involved 23:13.566 --> 23:17.266 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% in this campaign, in the in this effort. 23:17.266 --> 23:20.366 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I have my congregation, you know, I've been involved 23:20.366 --> 23:23.266 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% with young people since I was a student organizer 23:23.266 --> 23:24.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to when I created Union Summer 23:24.900 --> 23:28.033 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% for the national AFL-CIO in 1996. 23:28.033 --> 23:30.333 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% You know. Right. All throughout my life. 23:30.333 --> 23:31.900 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And I'm telling you, Tim, 23:31.900 --> 23:34.400 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% young people are really upset about this. 23:34.400 --> 23:36.833 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% And I don't want to see a situation 23:36.833 --> 23:39.700 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% like during the Vietnam War where we had this 23:39.700 --> 23:41.100 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% huge fracturing 23:41.100 --> 23:43.833 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% that ended up being a problem for a really long time. 23:43.833 --> 23:47.666 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I want to help people find their voice, stay in the process 23:47.666 --> 23:51.100 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% and speak to the president, and I hope a lot of them 23:51.100 --> 23:52.733 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% will vote for him 23:52.733 --> 23:55.166 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% when you know when November comes around, 23:55.166 --> 23:56.733 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% which is quite a few months from now. 23:56.733 --> 23:58.266 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% And I think I forget who said it, 23:58.266 --> 24:01.233 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% whether it was I think, Craig or Rick. 24:01.233 --> 24:04.633 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% But, you know, this is 24:04.633 --> 24:09.133 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% really a situation where 24:09.133 --> 24:11.833 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% you have young people 24:11.833 --> 24:15.800 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and voters more broadly who are really upset. 24:15.800 --> 24:20.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And I think if change happens and the alternative on November 24:20.166 --> 24:24.133 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% 5th is Donald Trump or Joe Biden, 24:24.133 --> 24:26.466 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% they're going to be happy that he changed 24:26.466 --> 24:29.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% their President Biden be led in a different way on this. 24:29.000 --> 24:31.600 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% But they're all going to also get to look at 24:31.600 --> 24:33.000 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% if if Donald Trump became 24:33.000 --> 24:37.166 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% president again, it will be a disaster for the environment. 24:37.166 --> 24:40.166 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% On climate change. For education. 24:40.166 --> 24:41.466 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Sorry, respectfully, though, 24:41.466 --> 24:43.733 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% I mean, it sounds like the argument, 24:43.733 --> 24:45.566 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% which I have been hearing from individuals 24:45.566 --> 24:48.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% who are currently supportive of President Biden, which is, 24:48.900 --> 24:51.300 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% well, what are you going to do, vote for Trump? 24:51.300 --> 24:52.233 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% And like, 24:52.700 --> 24:56.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% what what kind of message does that send to these individuals 24:56.133 --> 24:59.300 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% who are not content with the way that the president 24:59.300 --> 25:02.833 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% has been handling Gaza, who is not content with the way 25:02.833 --> 25:05.066 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% of student loan forgiveness of myriad 25:05.066 --> 25:07.166 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% things that I've heard from from younger voters? 25:07.166 --> 25:08.766 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I mean, at the end of the day, 25:08.766 --> 25:10.333 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% it still sounds like this boils down to, 25:10.333 --> 25:12.066 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% okay, you can vote uncommitted now, 25:12.066 --> 25:14.633 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% but what are you going to do come November? Vote Trump? 25:14.633 --> 25:16.033 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% Which just sort of 25:16.033 --> 25:20.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to a lot of young people leaves a bad taste in their mouth. 25:20.066 --> 25:21.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% You know, Jordyn I really agree. 25:21.600 --> 25:26.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I think that the the role that President Biden and Democrats 25:26.700 --> 25:29.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% running for House and Senate and so forth need to play 25:29.100 --> 25:31.000 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% is both to say 25:31.000 --> 25:34.600 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Donald Trump is literally a threat to our democracy. 25:34.600 --> 25:37.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% He is speaking undemocratically and so forth. 25:37.100 --> 25:38.166 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% He says he will 25:38.433 --> 25:41.833 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% be a dictator on day one hahaha and all of those things, 25:41.833 --> 25:44.900 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% but also say, look at what we've done. 25:44.900 --> 25:47.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I mean, we look at what we did 25:47.600 --> 25:50.466 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% in the Inflation Reduction Act, the biggest 25:50.466 --> 25:54.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% climate change legislation ever and it's being implemented. 25:54.000 --> 25:57.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Look at what President Biden has done on student loans. 25:57.133 --> 25:59.366 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% He's actually done more than any other president... 25:59.366 --> 25:59.933 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% Congressman. 26:00.700 --> 26:03.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% What he hasn't done is because of a Republican Congress. 26:03.000 --> 26:03.500 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% So Congress. 26:04.100 --> 26:05.466 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% So reelect him and a elect more democrats. 26:05.466 --> 26:09.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Very, very quickly so are you going to run for Congress again? 26:09.066 --> 26:10.100 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% Oh, and 26:10.100 --> 26:13.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I'm not running for anything in 2024, Tim. 26:13.400 --> 26:15.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I don't have any specific plans beyond that. 26:15.733 --> 26:16.333 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Thank you, sir. 26:16.766 --> 26:18.033 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% It was great to have you on our program. 26:18.033 --> 26:20.266 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Give our best to your father, please. 26:20.266 --> 26:20.933 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% I will. 26:21.333 --> 26:23.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% He's 92 and going strong, Tim, and I'll. 26:23.666 --> 26:24.700 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I'll tell him you said hi. 26:24.700 --> 26:27.100 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% All right, let's do it next week. 26:27.100 --> 26:28.966 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Joe, teach speaker of the House 26:28.966 --> 26:31.033 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% sitting right there or right here. 26:31.033 --> 26:32.700 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% See you then. 26:32.700 --> 26:34.966 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% Production of Off the Record is made possible, 26:34.966 --> 26:38.133 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% in part by Martin Waymire a full service 26:38.133 --> 26:40.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% strategic communications agency, 26:40.133 --> 26:42.500 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% partnering with clients through public relations, 26:42.500 --> 26:45.433 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% digital marketing and public policy engagement. 26:45.433 --> 26:48.900 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Learn more at MartinWaymire.com. 26:48.900 --> 26:52.600 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% For more Off the Record, visit wkar.org. 26:52.600 --> 26:54.933 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% Michigan public television stations have contributed 26:54.933 --> 27:45.900 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% to the production costs of Off the Record.