1 00:00:05,166 --> 00:00:06,066 The lame duck session 2 00:00:06,066 --> 00:00:06,966 gets into high gear 3 00:00:06,966 --> 00:00:07,833 and Wendy Block 4 00:00:07,833 --> 00:00:08,466 from the Michigan 5 00:00:08,466 --> 00:00:09,266 Chamber of Commerce 6 00:00:09,266 --> 00:00:09,966 is upset 7 00:00:09,966 --> 00:00:11,066 with some of the legislation 8 00:00:11,066 --> 00:00:11,833 that she thinks 9 00:00:11,833 --> 00:00:13,266 is anti-business. 10 00:00:13,266 --> 00:00:14,800 Our lead story, a road fix 11 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,100 plan may be taking shape. 12 00:00:16,100 --> 00:00:17,100 And what are the lame duck 13 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:18,833 lawmakers actually doing? 14 00:00:18,833 --> 00:00:19,466 For the answers, 15 00:00:19,466 --> 00:00:20,633 join Kyle Melinn, Beth 16 00:00:20,633 --> 00:00:22,433 LeBlanc and Simon Schuster. 17 00:00:22,433 --> 00:00:23,100 Sit in with us 18 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:24,500 as we get the inside out. 19 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:29,333 Off the record. 20 00:00:29,333 --> 00:00:30,533 Production of Off the Record 21 00:00:30,533 --> 00:00:31,733 is made possible in part 22 00:00:31,733 --> 00:00:32,466 by Bellwether 23 00:00:32,466 --> 00:00:33,800 Public Relations, 24 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:34,600 a full service 25 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,333 strategic communications agency 26 00:00:36,333 --> 00:00:37,333 partnering with clients 27 00:00:37,333 --> 00:00:38,566 through public relations, 28 00:00:38,566 --> 00:00:39,500 digital marketing, 29 00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:41,200 and issue advocacy. 30 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,800 Learn more at bellwetherpr.com 31 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:45,733 And now this 32 00:00:45,733 --> 00:00:46,866 edition of Off the Record 33 00:00:46,866 --> 00:00:49,233 with Tim Skubick. 34 00:00:49,233 --> 00:00:49,966 Thank you very much. 35 00:00:49,966 --> 00:00:51,133 Welcome to Studio C 36 00:00:51,133 --> 00:00:51,933 during this winter 37 00:00:51,933 --> 00:00:53,000 and winter is actually here 38 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,433 now I think and lame 39 00:00:54,433 --> 00:00:55,233 duck legislature 40 00:00:55,233 --> 00:00:55,800 they're working 41 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:56,533 kind of long hours 42 00:00:56,533 --> 00:00:57,233 aren't they guys? 43 00:00:57,233 --> 00:00:57,800 Oh yeah. 44 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,133 Until 5:30 here on 45 00:00:59,133 --> 00:01:00,066 Friday morning. 46 00:01:00,066 --> 00:01:02,133 And the house is actually going 47 00:01:02,133 --> 00:01:03,900 to come in on a Friday. 48 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:04,733 On a Friday! 49 00:01:04,733 --> 00:01:05,033 Yeah, 50 00:01:05,333 --> 00:01:05,533 but they're not going 51 00:01:05,866 --> 00:01:06,833 to do anything. 52 00:01:06,833 --> 00:01:08,033 I'm not so sure about that. 53 00:01:08,033 --> 00:01:08,533 All right. 54 00:01:08,533 --> 00:01:09,266 Let's see what 55 00:01:09,266 --> 00:01:09,900 they're going to do on roads. 56 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,166 There's some movement. 57 00:01:12,166 --> 00:01:13,500 Could it be that help is on 58 00:01:13,500 --> 00:01:14,800 the way to fix your roads? 59 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:15,933 The answer at this read 60 00:01:15,933 --> 00:01:17,233 appears to be yes. 61 00:01:17,233 --> 00:01:18,766 As the governor and the House 62 00:01:18,766 --> 00:01:20,566 and Senate bipartisan leaders 63 00:01:20,566 --> 00:01:21,500 are on a glide 64 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:22,400 path to release 65 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:23,866 a multibillion dollar 66 00:01:23,866 --> 00:01:24,700 road fix plan 67 00:01:24,700 --> 00:01:26,000 if they can find one. 68 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:26,800 We're very hopeful. 69 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:27,933 That one is 70 00:01:27,933 --> 00:01:28,600 We know that 71 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:29,400 the quadrant leaders 72 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:30,000 and the governor 73 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,200 have been meeting on this issue 74 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,100 and those meetings 75 00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:33,366 have been 76 00:01:33,733 --> 00:01:35,166 relatively productive. 77 00:01:35,166 --> 00:01:36,166 But it's not through yet. 78 00:01:36,166 --> 00:01:36,866 But the fact that 79 00:01:36,866 --> 00:01:37,900 they're even working on 80 00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:39,733 the soup is in and of itself 81 00:01:39,733 --> 00:01:40,700 a major breakthrough. 82 00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:41,466 It all started 83 00:01:41,466 --> 00:01:42,533 with the incoming House 84 00:01:42,533 --> 00:01:43,433 Republican speaker 85 00:01:43,433 --> 00:01:44,700 next year, Matt Hall, 86 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:45,700 who wants to take money 87 00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:47,266 from one special interest group 88 00:01:47,266 --> 00:01:48,733 and give it to another. 89 00:01:48,733 --> 00:01:49,866 The road builders. 90 00:01:49,866 --> 00:01:51,066 You just 91 00:01:51,066 --> 00:01:53,766 take the corporate income tax 92 00:01:53,766 --> 00:01:55,466 and you dedicate that to roads. 93 00:01:55,466 --> 00:01:56,166 Another piece 94 00:01:56,166 --> 00:01:57,500 of the Republican proposal on 95 00:01:57,500 --> 00:01:57,966 the table 96 00:01:58,233 --> 00:01:59,300 is to eliminate the current 97 00:01:59,300 --> 00:02:01,533 6% sales tax at the pump. 98 00:02:01,533 --> 00:02:02,500 None of that money 99 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:03,600 goes to the roads, 100 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,233 and that would be replaced 101 00:02:05,233 --> 00:02:06,666 with a gas tax hike. 102 00:02:06,666 --> 00:02:07,166 This road 103 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:08,866 lobbyist says that may look 104 00:02:08,866 --> 00:02:10,633 and feel like a tax increase, 105 00:02:10,633 --> 00:02:11,800 but it is not, 106 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:12,800 despite the dollar 107 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:13,766 amount involved, 108 00:02:13,766 --> 00:02:15,266 depending on the price of fuel, 109 00:02:15,266 --> 00:02:18,633 anywhere from $0.19 to $0.24. 110 00:02:18,633 --> 00:02:20,333 And that raises about 1.1 111 00:02:20,333 --> 00:02:22,233 to $1.2 billion. 112 00:02:22,233 --> 00:02:22,933 And if you 113 00:02:22,933 --> 00:02:24,366 if you eliminate the 6% 114 00:02:24,366 --> 00:02:25,900 sales tax on fuel 115 00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:27,233 and then you increase the gas 116 00:02:27,233 --> 00:02:29,166 tax by the equivalent amount, 117 00:02:29,166 --> 00:02:29,700 it's a 118 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:31,166 it's a zero sum 119 00:02:31,166 --> 00:02:32,700 revenue neutral proposal. 120 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:33,500 Revenue neutral, 121 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:34,566 he says, means it's 122 00:02:34,566 --> 00:02:35,466 not a tax hike. 123 00:02:35,466 --> 00:02:36,200 The huge hurdle 124 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:37,233 that the governor and leaders 125 00:02:37,233 --> 00:02:39,066 now face is that some groups 126 00:02:39,066 --> 00:02:40,166 want to fund the roads 127 00:02:40,166 --> 00:02:41,833 by cutting state services, 128 00:02:41,833 --> 00:02:43,200 while others want to raise 129 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:44,133 new dollars. 130 00:02:44,133 --> 00:02:45,033 I think our leaders 131 00:02:45,033 --> 00:02:46,000 are doing their best 132 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,100 to figure out 133 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:48,633 how they can massage that, 134 00:02:48,633 --> 00:02:49,900 and it's better than 50/50. 135 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:50,966 I think at this point 136 00:02:50,966 --> 00:02:51,700 the lobbyists 137 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:52,833 expect some movement 138 00:02:52,833 --> 00:02:53,533 on all this 139 00:02:53,533 --> 00:02:54,500 in the House soon. 140 00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:55,633 With a possible road 141 00:02:55,633 --> 00:02:57,400 fix coming next week? 142 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,166 Could it be? 143 00:02:59,166 --> 00:03:01,666 Could it be Miss LeBlanc? 144 00:03:01,666 --> 00:03:02,466 I don't know. 145 00:03:02,466 --> 00:03:03,833 They've got a long way to go, 146 00:03:03,833 --> 00:03:04,500 and I don't know that. 147 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:06,266 I guess it's a no right? 148 00:03:06,266 --> 00:03:07,933 I think 149 00:03:07,933 --> 00:03:09,200 session today on Friday 150 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,400 the 13th may not be 151 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:11,366 an auspicious start 152 00:03:11,366 --> 00:03:12,533 to those negotiations 153 00:03:12,533 --> 00:03:13,233 that they're looking 154 00:03:13,233 --> 00:03:14,133 to go anywhere, 155 00:03:14,133 --> 00:03:15,533 but those talks 156 00:03:15,533 --> 00:03:17,366 definitely are happening. 157 00:03:17,366 --> 00:03:19,166 And there is a hope 158 00:03:19,166 --> 00:03:20,200 last night, 159 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,333 Minority Leader 160 00:03:21,333 --> 00:03:22,200 Hall said that 161 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,200 he's still hopeful 162 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,166 a deal can be reached, 163 00:03:24,166 --> 00:03:26,400 but said there hasn't been one. 164 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:27,366 And I think 165 00:03:27,366 --> 00:03:28,866 a nonstarter for him 166 00:03:28,866 --> 00:03:29,933 if any of his members 167 00:03:29,933 --> 00:03:30,800 are going to cross over 168 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,000 and help vote for this 169 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,733 is any kind of tax increase 170 00:03:33,733 --> 00:03:34,566 so an increase 171 00:03:34,566 --> 00:03:35,400 to the corporate income 172 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,533 tax, to the gas tax, tolling, 173 00:03:38,533 --> 00:03:39,666 He's he's against that. 174 00:03:39,666 --> 00:03:40,666 Now, last night, though, 175 00:03:40,666 --> 00:03:42,733 he did float the possibility 176 00:03:42,733 --> 00:03:44,233 that they could end the mega 177 00:03:44,233 --> 00:03:45,700 tax credit early. 178 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:46,233 It's supposed to 179 00:03:46,233 --> 00:03:47,566 expire in 2029. 180 00:03:47,566 --> 00:03:48,833 If they ended it early, 181 00:03:48,833 --> 00:03:49,000 it would 182 00:03:49,233 --> 00:03:49,366 free up 183 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,433 about 550 to $600 184 00:03:51,433 --> 00:03:52,900 million a year. 185 00:03:52,900 --> 00:03:54,266 So I think ideas 186 00:03:54,266 --> 00:03:54,700 are still 187 00:03:54,933 --> 00:03:55,966 being thrown out there. 188 00:03:55,966 --> 00:03:58,300 They're still discussing it. 189 00:03:58,300 --> 00:04:01,066 But roads has been an issue 190 00:04:01,066 --> 00:04:02,200 for years and years 191 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:03,666 and years and. 192 00:04:03,666 --> 00:04:05,166 Remember this, you know, 193 00:04:05,166 --> 00:04:06,366 it takes a long time 194 00:04:06,366 --> 00:04:07,633 for the soup to boil. 195 00:04:07,633 --> 00:04:09,266 I thought it was significant 196 00:04:09,266 --> 00:04:10,966 that the soup was on the oven 197 00:04:10,966 --> 00:04:12,666 and is boiling to a degree. 198 00:04:12,666 --> 00:04:14,000 Kyle. But you're not there yet? 199 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,533 No. Well, here's what happened. 200 00:04:15,533 --> 00:04:16,366 Two weeks ago, 201 00:04:16,366 --> 00:04:17,066 it looked like 202 00:04:17,066 --> 00:04:18,333 the soup was starting to 203 00:04:18,333 --> 00:04:19,300 warm up a little bit. 204 00:04:19,300 --> 00:04:19,900 But what happened 205 00:04:19,900 --> 00:04:20,700 is, is the house 206 00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:21,766 got their members. 207 00:04:21,766 --> 00:04:23,133 They got 56 members 208 00:04:23,133 --> 00:04:24,566 on the Democratic side, 209 00:04:24,566 --> 00:04:26,000 which meant they could now 210 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:26,733 talk about doing 211 00:04:26,733 --> 00:04:27,833 what they really want to do. 212 00:04:27,833 --> 00:04:28,400 And they don't 213 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,133 have to negotiate 214 00:04:29,133 --> 00:04:30,233 with Matt Hall anymore. 215 00:04:30,233 --> 00:04:31,233 That was in question 216 00:04:31,233 --> 00:04:31,966 two weeks ago. 217 00:04:31,966 --> 00:04:33,233 It's not in question anymore. 218 00:04:33,233 --> 00:04:34,433 So now the Democrats 219 00:04:34,433 --> 00:04:35,266 are spending their time 220 00:04:35,266 --> 00:04:37,000 negotiating with themselves 221 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,233 on what they want to do 222 00:04:38,233 --> 00:04:39,166 and in 223 00:04:39,166 --> 00:04:40,600 trying to clear the decks 224 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,100 of all their interest group 225 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:43,466 wish list items. 226 00:04:43,466 --> 00:04:44,766 And that's their focus 227 00:04:44,766 --> 00:04:45,000 right now. 228 00:04:45,433 --> 00:04:46,066 They don't have time to 229 00:04:46,066 --> 00:04:47,466 to talk with Matt Hall 230 00:04:47,466 --> 00:04:48,033 if he's not 231 00:04:48,033 --> 00:04:48,966 talking about revenue 232 00:04:48,966 --> 00:04:51,400 increases, which he is not. 233 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:52,033 Yeah, I mean, I think 234 00:04:52,033 --> 00:04:53,066 I agree with Kyle. 235 00:04:53,066 --> 00:04:54,033 I think it's 236 00:04:54,033 --> 00:04:54,900 sort of a telling sign here 237 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:56,266 is that you've heard 238 00:04:56,266 --> 00:04:57,633 sort of the parameters 239 00:04:57,633 --> 00:04:58,533 from Republicans 240 00:04:58,533 --> 00:04:59,300 of what they want. 241 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:00,200 There was a package of bills 242 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,700 released by Democrats 243 00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:03,333 that was not necessarily 244 00:05:03,333 --> 00:05:04,866 a coherent policy portfolio. 245 00:05:04,866 --> 00:05:06,133 It was just a series of ideas 246 00:05:06,133 --> 00:05:07,400 that didn't necessarily mesh 247 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,300 all together as one coherent 248 00:05:09,300 --> 00:05:10,400 policy package. 249 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,800 And so as a result, 250 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,200 because the Republicans 251 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:14,166 are talking 252 00:05:14,166 --> 00:05:15,000 about these negotiations, 253 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:15,800 but you're not hearing so much 254 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,233 from the Democratic side, 255 00:05:17,233 --> 00:05:17,833 it's tough to know 256 00:05:17,833 --> 00:05:18,500 where that fits 257 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:19,200 within their wish list, 258 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,366 given that all this policy 259 00:05:21,366 --> 00:05:22,633 and of course, a lot can change 260 00:05:22,633 --> 00:05:23,333 because we're talking 261 00:05:23,333 --> 00:05:24,033 right before a House 262 00:05:24,033 --> 00:05:25,033 session is about to begin 263 00:05:25,033 --> 00:05:26,666 on Friday. 264 00:05:26,666 --> 00:05:27,800 It's tough to say where 265 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:28,566 this is going to fall 266 00:05:28,566 --> 00:05:29,466 within their wish list. 267 00:05:29,466 --> 00:05:30,633 Doesn't the governor 268 00:05:30,633 --> 00:05:32,133 have a dog in this hunt? 269 00:05:32,133 --> 00:05:33,266 She has a record 270 00:05:33,266 --> 00:05:34,333 of having introduced 271 00:05:34,333 --> 00:05:35,933 a $0.45 gas tax 272 00:05:35,933 --> 00:05:38,000 hike which went in the tank. 273 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:38,600 Then she did the 274 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:39,266 bonding program 275 00:05:39,266 --> 00:05:39,866 and since then 276 00:05:39,866 --> 00:05:41,166 it's been crickets. 277 00:05:41,166 --> 00:05:41,966 She's got two years 278 00:05:41,966 --> 00:05:42,733 left, though, 279 00:05:42,733 --> 00:05:44,100 and so she's got two years 280 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:45,300 to work with Matt Hall. 281 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:46,933 She's only got two weeks 282 00:05:46,933 --> 00:05:47,800 to get through 283 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:48,433 all of these 284 00:05:48,433 --> 00:05:49,600 different agenda items 285 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:50,966 that organized labor 286 00:05:50,966 --> 00:05:52,266 that the environmentalists, 287 00:05:52,266 --> 00:05:53,733 that the trial attorneys 288 00:05:53,733 --> 00:05:55,833 all want to get through. 289 00:05:55,833 --> 00:05:56,800 The list is 290 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:57,833 so long The House 291 00:05:57,833 --> 00:05:58,666 has been operating with 292 00:05:58,666 --> 00:06:00,000 a 100 item list. 293 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,033 All week, 294 00:06:01,033 --> 00:06:01,866 and they want to get 295 00:06:01,866 --> 00:06:02,800 all these things done. 296 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:03,366 And the governor 297 00:06:03,366 --> 00:06:04,066 wants to get more 298 00:06:04,066 --> 00:06:05,333 of those things done, too. 299 00:06:05,333 --> 00:06:06,266 And so if that means 300 00:06:06,266 --> 00:06:07,266 that we kick roads 301 00:06:07,266 --> 00:06:08,300 until next year, then 302 00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:08,833 I guess that's what 303 00:06:09,033 --> 00:06:09,633 we've got to do. All right. 304 00:06:09,633 --> 00:06:10,266 So what's 305 00:06:10,266 --> 00:06:11,333 what is the major lame 306 00:06:11,333 --> 00:06:12,266 duck thing that has 307 00:06:12,266 --> 00:06:14,333 gotten your attention? 308 00:06:14,333 --> 00:06:16,333 There are a series of bills 309 00:06:16,333 --> 00:06:18,266 that would create big changes 310 00:06:18,266 --> 00:06:20,133 to like 311 00:06:20,133 --> 00:06:21,066 the sentences 312 00:06:21,066 --> 00:06:22,333 of inmates right now. 313 00:06:22,333 --> 00:06:24,766 So one is juvenile lifers. 314 00:06:24,766 --> 00:06:25,700 So individuals 315 00:06:25,700 --> 00:06:26,533 sentenced before 316 00:06:26,533 --> 00:06:27,466 they were 19 317 00:06:27,466 --> 00:06:28,300 or committed a crime 318 00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:29,833 before they were 19, 319 00:06:29,833 --> 00:06:30,633 they would be up 320 00:06:30,633 --> 00:06:31,633 for parole hearings 321 00:06:31,633 --> 00:06:32,800 within 20 years 322 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,500 of their sentence. 323 00:06:34,500 --> 00:06:37,066 Another one would allow 324 00:06:37,066 --> 00:06:38,500 it's called the second 325 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:39,566 look legislation 326 00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:41,333 that would allow folks 327 00:06:41,333 --> 00:06:43,800 who are in prison to get 328 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:44,566 to apply 329 00:06:44,566 --> 00:06:46,066 for another sentencing hearing 330 00:06:46,066 --> 00:06:48,233 within 20 years as well. 331 00:06:48,233 --> 00:06:49,300 And that's created 332 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:49,866 that's created 333 00:06:49,866 --> 00:06:51,233 a ton of controversy 334 00:06:51,233 --> 00:06:53,366 within both Democrats 335 00:06:53,366 --> 00:06:54,100 and Republicans, 336 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:55,700 among vulnerable Democrats, 337 00:06:55,700 --> 00:06:57,900 because that would be 338 00:06:57,900 --> 00:06:58,900 a big shake 339 00:06:58,900 --> 00:06:59,900 up to the court system 340 00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:01,133 and to the parole board 341 00:07:01,133 --> 00:07:03,366 to have to process those. In 20 years 342 00:07:03,366 --> 00:07:05,900 sounds like a long time to me. 343 00:07:05,900 --> 00:07:06,433 It does. 344 00:07:06,433 --> 00:07:06,966 But if you have 345 00:07:06,966 --> 00:07:08,900 all of those inmates 346 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:11,133 reapplying at the same time, 347 00:07:11,133 --> 00:07:12,966 when this bill passes, it's 348 00:07:12,966 --> 00:07:13,866 going to create a headache 349 00:07:13,866 --> 00:07:14,633 for the courts. 350 00:07:14,633 --> 00:07:16,700 And there's an argument 351 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:18,000 too that victims 352 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,233 who would have to, 353 00:07:19,233 --> 00:07:20,433 you know, testify 354 00:07:20,433 --> 00:07:20,733 at the 355 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:22,800 sentencing hearings or testify 356 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,033 before a parole board 357 00:07:24,033 --> 00:07:24,766 or submit 358 00:07:24,766 --> 00:07:25,700 testimony there, that 359 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:26,700 it would be 360 00:07:26,700 --> 00:07:28,433 pretty disruptive to them. 361 00:07:28,433 --> 00:07:30,200 Simon, what's your biggie? 362 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:30,533 One of the 363 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:31,166 things that I think 364 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:31,766 has been interesting, 365 00:07:31,966 --> 00:07:32,600 broadly speaking, 366 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:33,300 is that 367 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:34,366 the Democratic priorities 368 00:07:34,366 --> 00:07:35,533 that some of these lawmakers 369 00:07:35,533 --> 00:07:36,066 have had, 370 00:07:36,066 --> 00:07:36,700 you know, for up 371 00:07:36,700 --> 00:07:37,966 to almost a ten years, 372 00:07:37,966 --> 00:07:38,733 one of these is 373 00:07:38,733 --> 00:07:39,900 from Stephanie Chang. 374 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:41,233 She's been interested in 375 00:07:41,233 --> 00:07:42,266 bringing together 376 00:07:42,266 --> 00:07:43,600 Duty to Intervene legislation, 377 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,500 a series of reforms 378 00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:45,100 to how the state 379 00:07:45,100 --> 00:07:46,166 handles policing. 380 00:07:46,166 --> 00:07:46,766 Almost since 381 00:07:46,766 --> 00:07:47,866 she entered the House 382 00:07:47,866 --> 00:07:49,066 back in 2015. 383 00:07:49,066 --> 00:07:49,600 And now we have 384 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:50,433 ten bill packages 385 00:07:50,433 --> 00:07:51,033 both in the House 386 00:07:51,033 --> 00:07:51,733 and the Senate, 387 00:07:51,733 --> 00:07:52,966 that would provide a sweeping 388 00:07:52,966 --> 00:07:54,133 array of different reforms 389 00:07:54,133 --> 00:07:54,833 for how the state 390 00:07:54,833 --> 00:07:55,766 handles policing. 391 00:07:55,766 --> 00:07:56,366 And these include 392 00:07:56,366 --> 00:07:57,133 like mandatory 393 00:07:57,133 --> 00:07:58,033 training for life 394 00:07:58,033 --> 00:07:58,866 for police officers 395 00:07:58,866 --> 00:07:59,533 simply to license 396 00:07:59,533 --> 00:08:01,066 looking at implicit bias 397 00:08:01,066 --> 00:08:01,633 training, this 398 00:08:01,633 --> 00:08:02,533 duty to intervene. 399 00:08:02,533 --> 00:08:03,100 This even has 400 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:03,833 Republican support 401 00:08:03,833 --> 00:08:04,933 with Johnson as the sponsor 402 00:08:04,933 --> 00:08:06,100 for this legislation, 403 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:07,533 and it had Republican 404 00:08:07,533 --> 00:08:08,933 support back in 2020 405 00:08:08,933 --> 00:08:10,266 after the murder 406 00:08:10,266 --> 00:08:11,600 of George Floyd. 407 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:12,433 And so, you know, 408 00:08:12,433 --> 00:08:12,933 that's something 409 00:08:12,933 --> 00:08:13,833 that has been 410 00:08:13,833 --> 00:08:15,166 on the burner for so long, 411 00:08:15,166 --> 00:08:16,033 but it's not necessarily 412 00:08:16,033 --> 00:08:16,466 clear that 413 00:08:16,466 --> 00:08:16,566 it's even 414 00:08:17,233 --> 00:08:17,800 going to make it to the floor. 415 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:18,333 Let's just explain 416 00:08:18,533 --> 00:08:20,533 what duty to intervene means. 417 00:08:20,533 --> 00:08:21,166 Sure. Yeah. 418 00:08:21,166 --> 00:08:22,233 When one police officer 419 00:08:22,233 --> 00:08:23,033 is doing something that meets 420 00:08:23,033 --> 00:08:24,200 the legal definition 421 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:25,266 of excessive force, 422 00:08:25,266 --> 00:08:26,300 then another police officer 423 00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:27,766 then has a legal duty 424 00:08:27,766 --> 00:08:28,266 to intervene 425 00:08:28,566 --> 00:08:29,600 and prevent that from going on. 426 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:30,666 Wouldn't someone argue, shouldn't 427 00:08:30,666 --> 00:08:31,700 that be in the playbook 428 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:32,600 already? 429 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:33,333 And again, 430 00:08:33,333 --> 00:08:33,766 this is something 431 00:08:34,033 --> 00:08:34,933 that has bipartisan support. 432 00:08:34,933 --> 00:08:36,500 We have Republican members 433 00:08:36,500 --> 00:08:37,933 of the Senate supporting it. 434 00:08:37,933 --> 00:08:38,966 But then when you see it 435 00:08:38,966 --> 00:08:39,400 go through the 436 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:40,500 committee in the House 437 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:41,733 and the Republican members 438 00:08:41,733 --> 00:08:42,433 on that committee 439 00:08:42,433 --> 00:08:43,400 voted against the bill, 440 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:43,866 even though it's 441 00:08:44,066 --> 00:08:45,200 essentially equivalent. 442 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:46,933 And so they pass out the bill 443 00:08:46,933 --> 00:08:47,233 at like 444 00:08:47,533 --> 00:08:48,300 5:30 in the morning 445 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:48,933 this morning, 446 00:08:48,933 --> 00:08:49,766 which is really funny. 447 00:08:49,766 --> 00:08:51,266 So mine so my. 448 00:08:51,266 --> 00:08:52,333 None of you were up. 449 00:08:52,333 --> 00:08:53,100 Well yeah. 450 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:54,966 So so we got to look at it but 451 00:08:54,966 --> 00:08:56,233 what I've been interested in 452 00:08:56,233 --> 00:08:57,466 is the, first of all, 453 00:08:57,466 --> 00:08:58,100 the unemployment 454 00:08:58,333 --> 00:08:59,933 benefits and extending, Huge! 455 00:08:59,933 --> 00:09:00,833 that's a real big. 456 00:09:00,833 --> 00:09:01,533 I mean they're taking it 457 00:09:01,533 --> 00:09:04,400 from $362 a week maximum 458 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,200 to like $615 459 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:06,966 or something like that. 460 00:09:06,966 --> 00:09:08,466 I mean, 21. 461 00:09:08,466 --> 00:09:09,800 an enormous number, and then 462 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:10,666 bumping back up 463 00:09:10,666 --> 00:09:11,966 the time you can collect from 464 00:09:11,966 --> 00:09:13,766 20 weeks back to 26, 465 00:09:13,766 --> 00:09:14,533 which it was before 466 00:09:14,533 --> 00:09:16,200 Snyder got into office. 467 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:16,866 And then I would say 468 00:09:16,866 --> 00:09:18,066 what they did this morning 469 00:09:18,066 --> 00:09:18,766 that I couldn't 470 00:09:18,766 --> 00:09:19,800 believe was polluter pay. 471 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,033 I didn't think that 472 00:09:21,033 --> 00:09:22,066 the Democrats 473 00:09:22,066 --> 00:09:23,266 would all get together 474 00:09:23,266 --> 00:09:25,000 and stick it to business 475 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:25,700 and say 476 00:09:25,700 --> 00:09:27,600 that if you were responsible 477 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,166 for this pollution, 478 00:09:29,166 --> 00:09:30,333 you got to clean it up 479 00:09:30,333 --> 00:09:32,233 and you have a duty to. 480 00:09:32,233 --> 00:09:33,100 That's 481 00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:33,766 that's something I'm 482 00:09:33,766 --> 00:09:34,733 sure our guest is 483 00:09:34,733 --> 00:09:36,100 is not very happy about. 484 00:09:36,100 --> 00:09:38,100 Didn't we have that once upon a time? 485 00:09:38,100 --> 00:09:39,100 Yeah, we did. 486 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:40,100 And it got repealed. 487 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:41,533 And I'm sure Wendy 488 00:09:41,533 --> 00:09:42,133 Block will talk 489 00:09:42,133 --> 00:09:42,866 a lot about that. 490 00:09:42,866 --> 00:09:43,766 What about changing 491 00:09:43,766 --> 00:09:44,466 the petition 492 00:09:44,466 --> 00:09:46,200 drive language or the 493 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:47,066 in other words, 494 00:09:47,066 --> 00:09:48,800 you can't no longer at this 495 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,166 stuff gets to the gut. 496 00:09:50,166 --> 00:09:52,300 You can't get per name, 497 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:53,300 which takes all the fun 498 00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:54,000 out of collecting names. 499 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:54,966 You can't get paid per name. 500 00:09:54,966 --> 00:09:55,600 It's got to be like 501 00:09:55,900 --> 00:09:57,366 an hourly wage. An hourly wage? 502 00:09:57,366 --> 00:09:58,666 It's like being a reporter, 503 00:09:58,666 --> 00:09:58,966 you know, 504 00:09:59,366 --> 00:10:00,266 working for $3.50 an hour 505 00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:00,933 to collect names. 506 00:10:00,933 --> 00:10:01,866 Nobody's going to do it. 507 00:10:01,866 --> 00:10:03,100 It certainly is going to take 508 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:04,033 a lot of the incentive 509 00:10:04,033 --> 00:10:05,266 out of doing petitions, 510 00:10:05,266 --> 00:10:05,600 isn't it? 511 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:06,500 Because that was 512 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:08,200 the whole thing, is that, 513 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:09,233 you know, you could get paid 514 00:10:09,233 --> 00:10:10,266 like $15 515 00:10:10,266 --> 00:10:10,800 a signature 516 00:10:11,033 --> 00:10:12,666 at some points when, you know, 517 00:10:12,666 --> 00:10:14,100 the demand was super high. 518 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:14,966 And now if you got to do it 519 00:10:14,966 --> 00:10:15,833 just for an hour, 520 00:10:15,833 --> 00:10:17,000 how many people are you going 521 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,066 to be able to get to do it? 522 00:10:18,066 --> 00:10:19,766 And ghost guns, 523 00:10:19,766 --> 00:10:20,766 what's happening there? 524 00:10:20,766 --> 00:10:21,333 That's something 525 00:10:21,333 --> 00:10:21,766 where we have seen 526 00:10:22,033 --> 00:10:24,466 a lot of bicameral movement. 527 00:10:24,466 --> 00:10:26,233 These packages that want to ban 528 00:10:26,233 --> 00:10:27,833 bump stocks, 529 00:10:27,833 --> 00:10:28,700 ghost guns, 3D 530 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:30,233 printed weapons, which we saw in 531 00:10:30,233 --> 00:10:30,966 These are guns 532 00:10:30,966 --> 00:10:31,800 that you could make at home 533 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,400 with no serial number? Yes. 534 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:34,133 And this got pushed 535 00:10:34,133 --> 00:10:34,866 into the headlines 536 00:10:34,866 --> 00:10:35,633 in the past couple of weeks 537 00:10:35,633 --> 00:10:36,233 given the killing 538 00:10:36,233 --> 00:10:36,933 of UnitedHealthcare 539 00:10:36,933 --> 00:10:38,233 CEO Brian Thompson. 540 00:10:38,233 --> 00:10:39,366 And these are things 541 00:10:39,366 --> 00:10:41,200 that don't have necessarily 542 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:42,033 a strong 543 00:10:42,033 --> 00:10:43,433 or influential special interest 544 00:10:43,433 --> 00:10:44,366 in the state 545 00:10:44,366 --> 00:10:45,433 capital tied to them. 546 00:10:45,433 --> 00:10:46,000 And so it's something 547 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:46,633 where Democrats 548 00:10:46,633 --> 00:10:48,000 see a little bit easier 549 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,566 what path forward. 550 00:10:49,566 --> 00:10:50,600 I think You think it's gonna? 551 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:51,633 Well I think Tim too 552 00:10:51,633 --> 00:10:53,800 like for a lot of these 553 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:54,100 they've 554 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:55,333 passed one chamber, 555 00:10:55,333 --> 00:10:57,300 they've passed the committee, 556 00:10:57,300 --> 00:10:59,366 but throughout this session 557 00:10:59,366 --> 00:11:00,333 they've struggled to get it 558 00:11:00,333 --> 00:11:01,633 through both chambers. 559 00:11:01,633 --> 00:11:02,300 A lot of these 560 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:03,866 a lot of these priorities 561 00:11:03,866 --> 00:11:05,100 have passed one chamber 562 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:06,533 and then just sat for a while. 563 00:11:06,533 --> 00:11:07,800 So I think, you know, 564 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:08,333 the next week 565 00:11:08,533 --> 00:11:09,533 is going to be telling to see 566 00:11:09,533 --> 00:11:12,166 which of those actually see 567 00:11:12,166 --> 00:11:13,100 their policies 568 00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:14,200 make it to the finish line, 569 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:14,866 because it's 570 00:11:14,866 --> 00:11:15,866 they've hit hiccups 571 00:11:15,866 --> 00:11:16,533 along the way. 572 00:11:16,533 --> 00:11:17,833 I'm trying to put myself 573 00:11:17,833 --> 00:11:18,933 in the place of the person 574 00:11:18,933 --> 00:11:19,333 at home 575 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:21,166 who doesn't watch this process 576 00:11:21,166 --> 00:11:23,166 and thinking to myself, 577 00:11:23,166 --> 00:11:23,900 they're doing over 578 00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:26,566 100 bills in two weeks. 579 00:11:26,566 --> 00:11:27,833 Is that responsible 580 00:11:27,833 --> 00:11:28,633 legislating? 581 00:11:28,633 --> 00:11:29,800 Yeah, that's really hard to 582 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:30,733 justify, isn't it? 583 00:11:30,733 --> 00:11:31,633 That you're doing 584 00:11:31,633 --> 00:11:33,533 so many important things 585 00:11:33,533 --> 00:11:34,700 that never got a hearing, 586 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:35,833 that never went through 587 00:11:35,833 --> 00:11:37,333 the committee process, 588 00:11:37,333 --> 00:11:38,966 and it just shows up 589 00:11:38,966 --> 00:11:40,866 at 5:00 in the morning 590 00:11:40,866 --> 00:11:42,433 with a, in the case of polluter 591 00:11:42,433 --> 00:11:44,700 pay, a 75 page substitute 592 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:46,300 that I was reading at 5:00 593 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:47,166 this morning, 594 00:11:47,166 --> 00:11:48,933 trying to see if I understood 595 00:11:48,933 --> 00:11:50,833 basically what was going on, 596 00:11:50,833 --> 00:11:51,900 which, you know, isn't easy. 597 00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:52,600 But these people now 598 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:53,633 have to vote on this, 599 00:11:53,633 --> 00:11:54,366 and they get it, 600 00:11:54,366 --> 00:11:55,166 you know, a few minutes 601 00:11:55,166 --> 00:11:55,866 ahead of time. 602 00:11:55,866 --> 00:11:56,800 Is it responsible? 603 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,033 I think you can argue that it 604 00:11:58,033 --> 00:11:59,133 probably is not. 605 00:11:59,133 --> 00:12:01,566 So what's the solution? 606 00:12:01,566 --> 00:12:02,133 Well, I think. 607 00:12:02,133 --> 00:12:03,866 Why did you laugh? 608 00:12:03,866 --> 00:12:04,533 Well, because this is 609 00:12:04,533 --> 00:12:05,500 the fundamental tension 610 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:06,500 that we've seen, 611 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:07,700 particularly within the House, 612 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:08,666 throughout the duration 613 00:12:08,666 --> 00:12:10,066 of this legislative session. 614 00:12:10,066 --> 00:12:10,866 Which is the fact that 615 00:12:10,866 --> 00:12:12,366 on an ambitious legislation, 616 00:12:12,366 --> 00:12:13,766 they need unanimity. 617 00:12:13,766 --> 00:12:15,633 And all that happens, 618 00:12:15,633 --> 00:12:16,000 you know, 619 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:16,566 if for 620 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:17,733 special interests in this town, 621 00:12:17,733 --> 00:12:18,500 if they want to preserve 622 00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:19,233 status quo, 623 00:12:19,233 --> 00:12:20,566 they need to find one member 624 00:12:20,566 --> 00:12:21,800 that isn't 625 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,366 going to go along 626 00:12:22,366 --> 00:12:23,100 with Democrats. 627 00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:23,733 And for 628 00:12:23,733 --> 00:12:24,966 the Republican Party 629 00:12:24,966 --> 00:12:25,666 in the House, 630 00:12:25,666 --> 00:12:26,100 the math is 631 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:26,966 fundamentally changed, 632 00:12:26,966 --> 00:12:27,733 which is that they know 633 00:12:27,733 --> 00:12:28,400 that they're going to have 634 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,400 the majority next term. 635 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:30,300 So if they hold strong, 636 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:31,133 they can get promises 637 00:12:31,133 --> 00:12:31,833 from leadership 638 00:12:31,833 --> 00:12:32,833 that they can have movement, 639 00:12:32,833 --> 00:12:33,566 even if they like 640 00:12:33,566 --> 00:12:34,133 what Democrats 641 00:12:34,133 --> 00:12:34,866 are putting forward. 642 00:12:34,866 --> 00:12:36,000 But couldn't the Democrats 643 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:36,666 still go over 644 00:12:36,666 --> 00:12:37,400 on the other side? 645 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:38,333 There's four or five 646 00:12:38,333 --> 00:12:39,666 six guys and ladies 647 00:12:39,666 --> 00:12:40,466 sitting over there 648 00:12:40,466 --> 00:12:41,466 that are available to vote 649 00:12:41,466 --> 00:12:42,600 with the Democrats. 650 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:43,133 Well, 651 00:12:43,333 --> 00:12:45,300 I think that's testament to 652 00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:46,600 to Leader Hall's ability 653 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,666 to really keep his 654 00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:49,066 his caucus intact or. 655 00:12:49,066 --> 00:12:50,233 Or the Speaker's inability 656 00:12:50,233 --> 00:12:50,566 to work 657 00:12:50,933 --> 00:12:51,666 the other side of the aisle, 658 00:12:51,666 --> 00:12:52,766 if you will. Yeah. 659 00:12:52,766 --> 00:12:53,400 It's probably 660 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:54,500 a combination of both. 661 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:55,566 All right, let's call in, 662 00:12:55,566 --> 00:12:56,166 yeah go ahead. Go ahead. 663 00:12:56,166 --> 00:12:56,900 Just real quickly. 664 00:12:56,900 --> 00:12:58,133 I mean, just in general, 665 00:12:58,133 --> 00:12:59,700 the Democrats have struggled 666 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:00,500 to get any kind 667 00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:01,500 of serious 668 00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:02,300 legislation through 669 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:03,233 that has required 670 00:13:03,233 --> 00:13:04,633 bipartisan support. 671 00:13:04,633 --> 00:13:05,400 I mean, the last time 672 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:06,533 you can really point to is 673 00:13:06,533 --> 00:13:07,133 when Whitmer 674 00:13:07,133 --> 00:13:09,166 got the Republicans 675 00:13:09,166 --> 00:13:10,733 to go along and join together 676 00:13:10,733 --> 00:13:13,066 on the auto insurance reforms. 677 00:13:13,066 --> 00:13:14,500 And after that, 678 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:14,866 you know, 679 00:13:15,233 --> 00:13:16,033 even working on the budgets 680 00:13:16,033 --> 00:13:16,500 at your. 681 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:16,733 Yeah. 682 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:18,266 How did that work out, Kyle? 683 00:13:18,266 --> 00:13:18,500 All right. 684 00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:19,133 Let's call 685 00:13:19,366 --> 00:13:20,033 in the Michigan chamber. 686 00:13:20,033 --> 00:13:20,600 You know what I'm 687 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:21,433 talking about? 688 00:13:21,433 --> 00:13:22,100 Let's call in 689 00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:22,766 Wendy Block 690 00:13:22,766 --> 00:13:23,633 from the Michigan Chamber 691 00:13:23,633 --> 00:13:24,500 of Commerce. Miss Block, 692 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:25,633 thank you for staying with us 693 00:13:25,633 --> 00:13:26,466 this morning. 694 00:13:26,466 --> 00:13:27,766 I have a little sort of bit 695 00:13:27,766 --> 00:13:28,733 off topic. 696 00:13:28,733 --> 00:13:30,166 Are you guys ready to sign off 697 00:13:30,166 --> 00:13:31,166 on taking the corporate 698 00:13:31,166 --> 00:13:32,166 income tax and put 699 00:13:32,166 --> 00:13:34,066 it into the roads? 700 00:13:34,066 --> 00:13:34,500 No. 701 00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:34,733 And in 702 00:13:34,933 --> 00:13:35,733 fact, we are 703 00:13:35,733 --> 00:13:37,533 strongly opposed to an increase 704 00:13:37,533 --> 00:13:39,533 in the corporate income tax. 705 00:13:39,533 --> 00:13:40,800 When we look at our membership, 706 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:41,533 we feel like it's 707 00:13:41,533 --> 00:13:42,766 very unfair to ask 708 00:13:42,766 --> 00:13:44,266 just a subsection 709 00:13:44,266 --> 00:13:46,133 to fund new money 710 00:13:46,133 --> 00:13:46,833 for the roads. 711 00:13:46,833 --> 00:13:47,900 There are more equitable 712 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:49,833 solutions, including 713 00:13:49,833 --> 00:13:51,533 user fees that we do support, 714 00:13:51,533 --> 00:13:52,233 but we just 715 00:13:52,233 --> 00:13:53,933 we cannot get behind this 716 00:13:53,933 --> 00:13:54,700 push on this 717 00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:55,633 issue in lame duck. 718 00:13:55,633 --> 00:13:56,666 Well, could the argument 719 00:13:56,666 --> 00:13:58,200 be made that business benefits 720 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,766 from good roads so pony up? 721 00:14:00,766 --> 00:14:02,066 100%. Right? 722 00:14:02,066 --> 00:14:04,000 Businesses do need good roads, 723 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,233 and that's why we do 724 00:14:05,233 --> 00:14:06,333 support user fees. 725 00:14:06,333 --> 00:14:07,900 And we have a long history, 726 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:09,600 decades long history, 727 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:10,733 of being supportive 728 00:14:10,733 --> 00:14:11,800 of new user fees 729 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:12,900 and new revenue for the road. 730 00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:13,566 Like first, 731 00:14:13,566 --> 00:14:14,366 we think that government 732 00:14:14,366 --> 00:14:15,133 should look within 733 00:14:15,133 --> 00:14:16,033 and figure out 734 00:14:16,033 --> 00:14:17,433 what can they do 735 00:14:17,433 --> 00:14:18,433 to find those savings 736 00:14:18,433 --> 00:14:19,633 and those efficiencies, 737 00:14:19,633 --> 00:14:21,400 including passing 738 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:22,166 legislation 739 00:14:22,166 --> 00:14:23,200 to allow the sourcing 740 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,300 of aggregate materials 741 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:25,266 or sand and gravel 742 00:14:25,266 --> 00:14:26,666 closer to the sites 743 00:14:26,666 --> 00:14:27,700 where we're building roads. 744 00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:29,000 But then beyond that, 745 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,100 we do support user fees, 746 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:32,033 but an increase in the CIT 747 00:14:32,033 --> 00:14:33,866 or doing other major tax 748 00:14:33,866 --> 00:14:34,633 policy changes 749 00:14:34,633 --> 00:14:35,133 that really 750 00:14:35,333 --> 00:14:36,366 have no linkage to the road, 751 00:14:36,366 --> 00:14:37,033 we just don't feel 752 00:14:37,033 --> 00:14:39,733 it's appropriate. 753 00:14:39,733 --> 00:14:41,933 Wendy, there are a lot of 754 00:14:41,933 --> 00:14:42,933 of legislation 755 00:14:42,933 --> 00:14:44,400 moving through both chambers 756 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:45,200 or through committee 757 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,233 that business groups 758 00:14:47,233 --> 00:14:48,833 are pretty panicked about 759 00:14:48,833 --> 00:14:49,700 it sounds like, 760 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,100 from what we've been hearing. 761 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:53,400 Are there priorities 762 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:54,633 for like legislation 763 00:14:54,633 --> 00:14:56,166 that you guys want to block 764 00:14:56,166 --> 00:14:57,366 at this point? 765 00:14:57,366 --> 00:14:58,200 Because it seems like 766 00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:59,200 you can only 767 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,833 plug the dam in so many spots. 768 00:15:00,833 --> 00:15:01,466 And remember, this 769 00:15:01,466 --> 00:15:02,166 is only a 20 770 00:15:02,166 --> 00:15:05,200 to 30 minute program. 771 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:05,500 Yeah. 772 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:06,533 So it's interesting 773 00:15:06,533 --> 00:15:08,766 because I was listening to the 774 00:15:08,766 --> 00:15:09,400 the panel 775 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,833 talk about the issues 776 00:15:10,833 --> 00:15:12,766 that are on their radar. 777 00:15:12,766 --> 00:15:13,866 And frankly, 778 00:15:13,866 --> 00:15:14,566 I was taking notes. 779 00:15:14,566 --> 00:15:15,866 I don't even know 780 00:15:15,866 --> 00:15:17,133 about half of these things 781 00:15:17,133 --> 00:15:18,366 that you're talking about. 782 00:15:18,366 --> 00:15:19,033 And so, 783 00:15:19,033 --> 00:15:19,800 you know, the business 784 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:20,600 community's issues 785 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,066 are just one small, 786 00:15:23,066 --> 00:15:26,666 small subsection of the overall 787 00:15:26,666 --> 00:15:27,800 just crazy 788 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:28,900 list of things 789 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:29,766 that we're seeing here 790 00:15:29,766 --> 00:15:30,433 in the lame duck. 791 00:15:30,433 --> 00:15:31,466 I worked in Lansing 792 00:15:31,466 --> 00:15:32,366 for over 20 years, 793 00:15:32,366 --> 00:15:34,433 and I have not seen a lame 794 00:15:34,433 --> 00:15:35,433 duck like this. 795 00:15:35,433 --> 00:15:36,466 And, you know, 796 00:15:36,466 --> 00:15:37,266 so when we 797 00:15:37,266 --> 00:15:37,900 start talking 798 00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:38,600 about those issues 799 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:39,533 that we're concerned about, 800 00:15:39,533 --> 00:15:40,733 I mean, we went into this lame 801 00:15:40,733 --> 00:15:41,600 duck saying 802 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,333 it is absolutely urgent 803 00:15:43,333 --> 00:15:45,033 that the legislature deal 804 00:15:45,033 --> 00:15:46,266 with this earned sick time 805 00:15:46,266 --> 00:15:48,100 and minimum wage issue. Like 806 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:48,800 full stop, 807 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:49,900 that has got to 808 00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:50,866 be the priority. 809 00:15:50,866 --> 00:15:52,733 But then as these bad bills 810 00:15:52,733 --> 00:15:54,033 have gotten 811 00:15:54,033 --> 00:15:56,633 legs and have gained steam, 812 00:15:56,633 --> 00:15:57,466 it almost seems like 813 00:15:57,466 --> 00:15:58,633 that's kind of the least 814 00:15:58,633 --> 00:16:00,000 of our concerns at this point. 815 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:00,800 And it's crazy 816 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:01,800 to think that we're 817 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,400 we're actually saying that. 818 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,266 But Kyle mentioned one 819 00:16:05,266 --> 00:16:05,966 big issue, 820 00:16:05,966 --> 00:16:07,833 the so-called polluter pay 821 00:16:07,833 --> 00:16:08,700 bill sounds 822 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:09,633 great on the surface, 823 00:16:09,633 --> 00:16:11,033 but will really create 824 00:16:11,033 --> 00:16:12,333 costly barriers 825 00:16:12,333 --> 00:16:13,400 to redeveloping 826 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,933 contaminated sites in Michigan. 827 00:16:15,933 --> 00:16:17,233 The CIT proposal 828 00:16:17,233 --> 00:16:19,966 is another huge one for us. 829 00:16:19,966 --> 00:16:21,133 We're considered 830 00:16:21,133 --> 00:16:21,966 very concerned 831 00:16:21,966 --> 00:16:22,966 about legislation 832 00:16:22,966 --> 00:16:23,900 that is on the move 833 00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:24,766 to allow local 834 00:16:24,766 --> 00:16:26,000 units of government 835 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,600 to pass their own wage 836 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,466 and our laws. 837 00:16:29,466 --> 00:16:30,033 So think 838 00:16:30,033 --> 00:16:31,100 local prevailing 839 00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:32,400 wage, local minimum 840 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,200 wage, and the like. 841 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,133 And you know, kind of 842 00:16:35,133 --> 00:16:37,866 we can go from there, I guess. 843 00:16:37,866 --> 00:16:38,900 Yeah, another piece of legislation 844 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:39,500 that I was curious 845 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:41,000 to get your response to, passed 846 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:41,600 to the Labor 847 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,000 Committee last night, 848 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:43,766 Pretty speedily 849 00:16:43,766 --> 00:16:45,833 Is this package from Democrats 850 00:16:45,833 --> 00:16:47,200 that's going to address 851 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,766 gender based discrimination 852 00:16:48,766 --> 00:16:49,700 in the workplace, 853 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:51,433 sort of pay equity? 854 00:16:51,433 --> 00:16:52,166 This is broad 855 00:16:52,166 --> 00:16:53,466 based package, includes bills 856 00:16:53,466 --> 00:16:54,966 that would require 857 00:16:54,966 --> 00:16:56,266 every employer in the state 858 00:16:56,266 --> 00:16:57,433 if an employee requests it 859 00:16:57,433 --> 00:16:58,200 to provide 860 00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,000 the salary list 861 00:16:59,000 --> 00:16:59,600 of similarly 862 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,133 situated employees. 863 00:17:01,133 --> 00:17:01,866 Is this something 864 00:17:01,866 --> 00:17:03,266 that is on your radar 865 00:17:03,266 --> 00:17:05,333 as any concern of becoming law? 866 00:17:05,333 --> 00:17:05,800 Yeah. 867 00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:07,466 So there are a number of bills 868 00:17:07,466 --> 00:17:08,800 that have come out of the House 869 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,000 Labor Committee 870 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,100 this week 871 00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:11,966 that some of those 872 00:17:11,966 --> 00:17:12,666 that you mentioned 873 00:17:12,666 --> 00:17:14,366 and others that you haven't. 874 00:17:14,366 --> 00:17:15,666 Other bills in that package 875 00:17:15,666 --> 00:17:17,266 would actually criminalize, 876 00:17:17,266 --> 00:17:19,300 meaning throw business owners 877 00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:19,866 in jail 878 00:17:19,866 --> 00:17:21,000 for up to 20 years 879 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:21,800 if they have 880 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,600 technical violations to wage. 881 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:24,466 And our laws. 882 00:17:24,466 --> 00:17:25,033 We just think that's 883 00:17:25,033 --> 00:17:26,033 fully inappropriate. 884 00:17:26,033 --> 00:17:26,800 You were just talking about 885 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,066 all these second chance laws 886 00:17:28,066 --> 00:17:28,733 and how 887 00:17:28,733 --> 00:17:30,133 we've been talking about 888 00:17:30,133 --> 00:17:32,233 reforming criminal justice 889 00:17:32,233 --> 00:17:33,266 this entire session. 890 00:17:33,266 --> 00:17:34,100 And now Democrats 891 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:35,000 want to throw business 892 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:35,800 owners in jail 893 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,266 because they 894 00:17:37,266 --> 00:17:39,700 got some computations wrong. 895 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:42,066 It's just crazy 896 00:17:42,066 --> 00:17:43,600 to think all of these bills 897 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,066 and frankly, 898 00:17:44,066 --> 00:17:44,266 you know, 899 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:44,700 you think about 900 00:17:45,266 --> 00:17:46,266 the small business owner 901 00:17:46,266 --> 00:17:46,900 and their 902 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:48,100 compliance obligations 903 00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:48,600 with this 904 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:49,966 this influx 905 00:17:49,966 --> 00:17:51,700 of labor requirements. 906 00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:53,000 And how will they even know? 907 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:53,166 I mean, 908 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:54,233 we even have people 909 00:17:54,233 --> 00:17:55,166 that still are saying, 910 00:17:55,166 --> 00:17:55,966 I just heard 911 00:17:55,966 --> 00:17:57,000 about this decision 912 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,333 out of the Supreme Court 913 00:17:58,333 --> 00:18:00,033 on minimum wage and paid leave 914 00:18:00,033 --> 00:18:00,400 leave. 915 00:18:00,733 --> 00:18:01,966 Can you help me understand 916 00:18:01,966 --> 00:18:03,033 and explain? 917 00:18:03,033 --> 00:18:04,266 And then you start 918 00:18:04,266 --> 00:18:05,666 talking about just bill 919 00:18:05,666 --> 00:18:06,933 after bill after bill 920 00:18:06,933 --> 00:18:08,866 that requires them to comply 921 00:18:08,866 --> 00:18:09,833 with something that they very 922 00:18:09,833 --> 00:18:11,066 well may not even know about. 923 00:18:11,066 --> 00:18:11,400 And like, 924 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,366 what is the state going to do 925 00:18:13,366 --> 00:18:14,533 to get the word out? 926 00:18:14,533 --> 00:18:16,433 I think probably nothing. 927 00:18:16,433 --> 00:18:17,933 And the law says 928 00:18:17,933 --> 00:18:19,766 so throw the book at them. 929 00:18:19,766 --> 00:18:20,233 Wendy, 930 00:18:20,233 --> 00:18:20,566 I know that 931 00:18:20,866 --> 00:18:21,333 the business community 932 00:18:21,333 --> 00:18:22,433 had approached 933 00:18:22,433 --> 00:18:23,266 Speaker Tate 934 00:18:23,266 --> 00:18:24,666 and the Democratic leadership 935 00:18:24,666 --> 00:18:25,333 and said, 936 00:18:25,333 --> 00:18:26,500 we'll go along with 937 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:28,166 with a smaller increase 938 00:18:28,166 --> 00:18:29,166 on the unemployment 939 00:18:29,166 --> 00:18:30,466 insurance benefits 940 00:18:30,466 --> 00:18:31,600 if in exchange 941 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:32,266 you'll take a look 942 00:18:32,266 --> 00:18:33,433 at the tipped wage 943 00:18:33,433 --> 00:18:35,300 and earned sick time. 944 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:37,300 And the response back was, 945 00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:38,600 that's okay, we got it taken 946 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:39,233 care of. 947 00:18:39,233 --> 00:18:40,133 Is that, it's 948 00:18:40,133 --> 00:18:40,866 got to feel kind of 949 00:18:40,866 --> 00:18:42,466 like a hopeless feeling like, 950 00:18:42,466 --> 00:18:43,166 oh my God, 951 00:18:43,166 --> 00:18:44,166 they really don't need us. 952 00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:44,900 And you're 953 00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:46,033 getting kind of shoved back 954 00:18:46,033 --> 00:18:48,166 and you're having to become 955 00:18:48,166 --> 00:18:50,400 more of a spectator here. 956 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:51,300 I would argue we 957 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:52,566 haven't been spectators. 958 00:18:52,566 --> 00:18:53,300 We've been fully 959 00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:54,700 engaged in the process 960 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:55,566 and we have made 961 00:18:55,566 --> 00:18:56,433 made a big difference 962 00:18:56,433 --> 00:18:57,233 on big issues. 963 00:18:57,233 --> 00:18:58,233 It's unfortunate, 964 00:18:58,233 --> 00:18:59,566 though, that Democrats 965 00:18:59,566 --> 00:19:01,166 have been saying all along 966 00:19:01,166 --> 00:19:02,133 they're not going to do this 967 00:19:02,133 --> 00:19:02,500 and they're not 968 00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:03,166 going to do that. 969 00:19:03,366 --> 00:19:04,033 And then all of a sudden 970 00:19:04,033 --> 00:19:04,833 these bills are getting 971 00:19:04,833 --> 00:19:05,433 jammed through 972 00:19:05,433 --> 00:19:06,833 in the final days 973 00:19:06,833 --> 00:19:08,033 of the legislative session. 974 00:19:08,033 --> 00:19:08,800 It feels like 975 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,200 we've been told one thing, 976 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,300 and then when, 977 00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:12,000 you know, 978 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:12,966 the window's closing 979 00:19:12,966 --> 00:19:14,533 and all of a sudden here, 980 00:19:14,533 --> 00:19:14,800 you know, 981 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,600 the floodgates are open. 982 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:17,466 On the unemployment 983 00:19:17,466 --> 00:19:18,800 insurance bill, 984 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,300 we've said all along that we do 985 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:21,000 think it is 986 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,800 time for an increase 987 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:23,566 in benefits, 988 00:19:23,566 --> 00:19:25,066 but we have to be very careful 989 00:19:25,066 --> 00:19:26,266 in terms of figuring out 990 00:19:26,266 --> 00:19:28,033 what is that right number. 991 00:19:28,033 --> 00:19:28,766 When we look at our 992 00:19:28,766 --> 00:19:29,666 competitor states 993 00:19:29,666 --> 00:19:31,333 as more in that $500 994 00:19:31,333 --> 00:19:32,200 per week 995 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,266 amount on the legislation 996 00:19:34,266 --> 00:19:35,333 that was sent to the governor 997 00:19:35,333 --> 00:19:36,866 goes to 614. 998 00:19:36,866 --> 00:19:38,033 And our big concern with 999 00:19:38,033 --> 00:19:39,466 that is just the trust fund, 1000 00:19:39,466 --> 00:19:40,466 the fund that pays 1001 00:19:40,466 --> 00:19:42,000 benefits to claimants 1002 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,300 is still rebuilding 1003 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:44,666 due to 1004 00:19:44,666 --> 00:19:45,400 the situation 1005 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,433 that happened under COVID, 1006 00:19:46,433 --> 00:19:48,333 where the agency just pushed 1007 00:19:48,333 --> 00:19:49,700 money out the door 1008 00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:51,133 to people in other countries. 1009 00:19:51,133 --> 00:19:52,500 And there was a ton of fraud, 1010 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:54,433 both state and federal fraud. 1011 00:19:54,433 --> 00:19:55,800 And the trust fund is 1012 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:57,333 just not in a healthy position. 1013 00:19:57,333 --> 00:19:58,300 So we don't believe 1014 00:19:58,300 --> 00:19:59,366 that you can raise 1015 00:19:59,366 --> 00:20:00,733 unemployment benefits 1016 00:20:00,733 --> 00:20:02,300 this high, this fast, 1017 00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:03,566 without triggering 1018 00:20:03,566 --> 00:20:05,400 a new payroll tax increase 1019 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:06,666 on Michigan employers. 1020 00:20:06,666 --> 00:20:07,133 And again, 1021 00:20:07,133 --> 00:20:08,166 you add that, 1022 00:20:08,166 --> 00:20:08,466 you know, 1023 00:20:08,933 --> 00:20:10,433 you might say and in a vacuum, 1024 00:20:10,433 --> 00:20:11,233 you know, employers 1025 00:20:11,233 --> 00:20:12,566 probably can absorb that. 1026 00:20:12,566 --> 00:20:14,066 But when you start layering 1027 00:20:14,066 --> 00:20:15,700 on all of these bad bills 1028 00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:16,633 and all the costs 1029 00:20:16,633 --> 00:20:18,000 associated with them 1030 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:18,700 that the Democrats 1031 00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:19,366 are passing 1032 00:20:19,366 --> 00:20:20,433 in these final days 1033 00:20:20,433 --> 00:20:21,833 of the session, 1034 00:20:21,833 --> 00:20:23,233 that's really where it becomes 1035 00:20:23,233 --> 00:20:23,900 unsustainable 1036 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:25,100 and Michigan becomes 1037 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:27,133 highly uncompetitive. 1038 00:20:27,133 --> 00:20:28,100 We get this all the time. 1039 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:29,966 What is happening in Michigan? 1040 00:20:29,966 --> 00:20:30,566 Let's bring this 1041 00:20:30,566 --> 00:20:31,533 to the kitchen table 1042 00:20:31,533 --> 00:20:32,200 for the people 1043 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,233 that want to understand 1044 00:20:33,233 --> 00:20:34,266 what the implication 1045 00:20:34,266 --> 00:20:36,233 is for them as consumers, 1046 00:20:36,233 --> 00:20:37,033 let's assume 1047 00:20:37,033 --> 00:20:38,500 that half of this stuff passes. 1048 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:40,166 What's the impact on 1049 00:20:40,166 --> 00:20:41,833 mom and dad? 1050 00:20:41,833 --> 00:20:42,233 Yeah. 1051 00:20:42,233 --> 00:20:43,000 So, Tim, 1052 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:43,966 I think you are raising 1053 00:20:43,966 --> 00:20:44,666 a great point 1054 00:20:44,666 --> 00:20:45,633 and one that we have been 1055 00:20:45,633 --> 00:20:46,533 trying to stress 1056 00:20:46,533 --> 00:20:47,266 is that, 1057 00:20:47,266 --> 00:20:47,533 you know, 1058 00:20:47,733 --> 00:20:48,466 these costs 1059 00:20:48,466 --> 00:20:50,166 have to come out somewhere. 1060 00:20:50,166 --> 00:20:51,066 And in November, 1061 00:20:51,066 --> 00:20:52,400 voters went to the polls 1062 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,033 and they voted on the economy 1063 00:20:54,033 --> 00:20:55,466 and their personal situation 1064 00:20:55,466 --> 00:20:56,866 and their pocketbook. 1065 00:20:56,866 --> 00:20:57,966 And it's almost like 1066 00:20:57,966 --> 00:20:59,933 Democrats are not listening 1067 00:20:59,933 --> 00:21:00,766 to that message 1068 00:21:00,766 --> 00:21:01,533 from voters 1069 00:21:01,533 --> 00:21:03,000 and doubling down on this idea 1070 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,166 that government 1071 00:21:04,166 --> 00:21:05,000 needs to come in 1072 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:05,433 and form 1073 00:21:05,433 --> 00:21:06,300 new programs 1074 00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:07,833 and levy new penalties 1075 00:21:07,833 --> 00:21:08,766 and fines 1076 00:21:08,766 --> 00:21:09,800 and make things 1077 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:10,566 more difficult 1078 00:21:10,566 --> 00:21:11,700 for business, which will then 1079 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:13,566 and increase their costs. 1080 00:21:13,566 --> 00:21:14,400 And that has to be 1081 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:15,866 passed on to the consumer 1082 00:21:15,866 --> 00:21:17,000 or it has to be found 1083 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,600 in some sort of adjustments 1084 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,233 to wages and benefits. 1085 00:21:20,233 --> 00:21:22,000 And it just feels tone 1086 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:22,700 deaf to us. 1087 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:25,266 I really don't understand it. 1088 00:21:25,266 --> 00:21:26,066 And one thing 1089 00:21:26,066 --> 00:21:27,166 that we didn't talk about today 1090 00:21:27,166 --> 00:21:28,266 is and, I don't even know 1091 00:21:28,266 --> 00:21:29,633 that much about it, but, 1092 00:21:29,633 --> 00:21:30,900 you know, last night 1093 00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:32,766 the House Labor Committee, 1094 00:21:32,766 --> 00:21:35,100 without any testimony, passed 1095 00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:36,300 massive changes 1096 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:38,400 to our public pension systems. 1097 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,600 And as I understand it, 1098 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,266 that's up to $25 billion 1099 00:21:42,266 --> 00:21:43,500 in new obligations 1100 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:44,533 for the state. 1101 00:21:44,533 --> 00:21:45,466 These things 1102 00:21:45,466 --> 00:21:46,333 are going to be paid 1103 00:21:46,333 --> 00:21:47,600 for by taxpayers. 1104 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,233 It has to come out somewhere. 1105 00:21:49,233 --> 00:21:51,033 We can't make promises 1106 00:21:51,033 --> 00:21:53,466 and just say like somehow, 1107 00:21:53,466 --> 00:21:54,333 who's going to pay for this 1108 00:21:54,333 --> 00:21:54,966 Santa Clause? 1109 00:21:54,966 --> 00:21:58,166 Like, it's outrageous. 1110 00:21:58,166 --> 00:21:58,633 Wendy, I 1111 00:21:58,633 --> 00:21:59,233 want to I 1112 00:21:59,433 --> 00:22:02,466 just want to ask you also about 1113 00:22:02,466 --> 00:22:03,233 the the 1114 00:22:03,233 --> 00:22:03,566 I guess, 1115 00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:04,933 the extent of the bills 1116 00:22:04,933 --> 00:22:06,366 that are coming out right now. 1117 00:22:06,366 --> 00:22:08,366 And you mentioned earlier 1118 00:22:08,366 --> 00:22:11,366 that you felt deceived. 1119 00:22:11,366 --> 00:22:11,666 Are there 1120 00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:12,566 particular bills 1121 00:22:12,566 --> 00:22:13,666 that you were told 1122 00:22:13,666 --> 00:22:15,400 we will not take up 1123 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,166 in lame duck 1124 00:22:16,166 --> 00:22:17,933 and now they are? Be specific. 1125 00:22:17,933 --> 00:22:18,633 What did they tell you 1126 00:22:18,633 --> 00:22:20,266 they weren't going to do? 1127 00:22:20,266 --> 00:22:20,733 Yeah. 1128 00:22:20,733 --> 00:22:21,166 So, I mean, 1129 00:22:21,533 --> 00:22:22,600 I think this is ongoing, right? 1130 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:23,633 Like we are playing 1131 00:22:23,633 --> 00:22:26,066 Whac-A-Mole on a ton of things 1132 00:22:26,066 --> 00:22:26,500 right now. 1133 00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:27,600 We were told all along 1134 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:28,366 that unemployment 1135 00:22:28,366 --> 00:22:29,966 probably was going to come. 1136 00:22:29,966 --> 00:22:30,666 Right? 1137 00:22:30,666 --> 00:22:31,833 But we were told the votes 1138 00:22:31,833 --> 00:22:32,433 weren't there 1139 00:22:32,433 --> 00:22:33,600 on a number of things 1140 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,066 even going into this week. 1141 00:22:35,066 --> 00:22:38,066 And you know, so, 1142 00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:38,566 yeah, 1143 00:22:38,766 --> 00:22:39,866 we last night 1144 00:22:39,866 --> 00:22:41,066 managed to stop a workers 1145 00:22:41,066 --> 00:22:42,333 compensation bill. 1146 00:22:42,333 --> 00:22:43,233 Maybe there's a house 1147 00:22:43,233 --> 00:22:44,000 vehicle on that. 1148 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:44,833 I guess we'll find out 1149 00:22:44,833 --> 00:22:46,166 as the day continues 1150 00:22:46,166 --> 00:22:47,166 whether that issue 1151 00:22:47,166 --> 00:22:48,566 is still alive. 1152 00:22:48,566 --> 00:22:49,633 But, you know, we were 1153 00:22:49,633 --> 00:22:52,733 we were told going into 1154 00:22:52,733 --> 00:22:53,600 the week that there 1155 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:54,733 just were not the votes 1156 00:22:54,733 --> 00:22:55,600 on a number of things. 1157 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,400 And it just feels like 1158 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,700 that has been 1159 00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:00,433 in a following situation. 1160 00:23:00,433 --> 00:23:01,100 Polluter pay 1161 00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:01,833 would be a good example 1162 00:23:01,833 --> 00:23:03,133 where we were led to believe 1163 00:23:03,133 --> 00:23:04,366 that the votes were 1164 00:23:04,366 --> 00:23:05,166 not there 1165 00:23:05,166 --> 00:23:06,333 and all of a sudden 1166 00:23:06,333 --> 00:23:08,766 this thing and a 75 page sub, 1167 00:23:08,766 --> 00:23:09,933 you know, substitute bill 1168 00:23:09,933 --> 00:23:10,666 kind of popped 1169 00:23:10,666 --> 00:23:11,366 and all of a sudden 1170 00:23:11,366 --> 00:23:12,300 we were off to the races. 1171 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:12,933 We were told that 1172 00:23:12,933 --> 00:23:13,733 it was dead, too. 1173 00:23:13,733 --> 00:23:14,933 We were, the reporters were told 1174 00:23:14,933 --> 00:23:16,500 it was dead last night. 1175 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,233 Yeah. 1176 00:23:17,233 --> 00:23:17,900 I mean, frankly, 1177 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:20,033 I'm almost shocked that 1178 00:23:20,033 --> 00:23:22,533 Senator Geiss's 12 week paid 1179 00:23:22,533 --> 00:23:24,100 leave mandate bill 1180 00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:24,800 kind of got 1181 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:25,766 left on the cutting room 1182 00:23:25,766 --> 00:23:27,766 floor, given just the craziness 1183 00:23:27,766 --> 00:23:29,566 of all of the policy changes. 1184 00:23:29,566 --> 00:23:31,033 and. Can you 1185 00:23:31,033 --> 00:23:32,233 Can you refresh my memory? 1186 00:23:32,233 --> 00:23:33,266 How many Democrats did 1187 00:23:33,266 --> 00:23:34,100 you endorse in the 1188 00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:37,000 House races in November? 1189 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,333 Oh, that's a good question. 1190 00:23:38,333 --> 00:23:40,800 I think upwards of 15 1191 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,266 Democrats and frankly, 1192 00:23:42,266 --> 00:23:42,566 you know, 1193 00:23:42,966 --> 00:23:44,100 today will be a good test 1194 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:44,466 today. 1195 00:23:44,466 --> 00:23:44,800 Friday 1196 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:45,666 the 13th will be 1197 00:23:45,666 --> 00:23:46,966 a good test of, 1198 00:23:46,966 --> 00:23:47,633 you know, kind of 1199 00:23:47,633 --> 00:23:48,666 what are they going to do 1200 00:23:48,666 --> 00:23:49,466 in the final days 1201 00:23:49,466 --> 00:23:50,333 here. Were they happy 1202 00:23:50,333 --> 00:23:51,233 to accept 1203 00:23:51,233 --> 00:23:51,900 the business 1204 00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:53,233 community's endorsement 1205 00:23:53,233 --> 00:23:53,700 and then 1206 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:54,366 turn around 1207 00:23:54,366 --> 00:23:55,466 and stab us in the back 1208 00:23:55,466 --> 00:23:57,000 when it doesn't matter anymore, 1209 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:57,366 when there's 1210 00:23:57,666 --> 00:23:58,433 no more accountability. 1211 00:23:58,433 --> 00:23:59,566 But it's going to be 1212 00:23:59,566 --> 00:24:01,300 I just don't see the road 1213 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:03,066 back on this. Right? 1214 00:24:03,066 --> 00:24:04,366 We cannot 1215 00:24:04,366 --> 00:24:06,033 turn the page in the new year 1216 00:24:06,033 --> 00:24:06,566 and forget 1217 00:24:06,566 --> 00:24:07,300 what happened 1218 00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:08,333 to the business community 1219 00:24:08,333 --> 00:24:09,533 during the lame duck session 1220 00:24:09,533 --> 00:24:10,400 as we move forward 1221 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:11,866 with our political program. 1222 00:24:11,866 --> 00:24:13,233 So how many of that 15 1223 00:24:13,233 --> 00:24:14,000 have that knife in 1224 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,600 your back right now? 1225 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,600 We will see as the day goes on. 1226 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:19,066 No, no. 1227 00:24:19,066 --> 00:24:19,566 No, no, no. 1228 00:24:19,566 --> 00:24:20,400 I want a number. 1229 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,400 How many people have 1230 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,000 said, okay, 1231 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:22,333 we're going to 1232 00:24:22,666 --> 00:24:23,400 cough up a vote for you 1233 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,833 because you endorsed me. 1234 00:24:25,833 --> 00:24:26,166 I mean, 1235 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,566 we don't play that way, right? 1236 00:24:27,566 --> 00:24:29,133 We don't hide. 1237 00:24:29,133 --> 00:24:29,533 That's, 1238 00:24:29,533 --> 00:24:30,233 excuse me, 1239 00:24:30,233 --> 00:24:33,400 isn't that what the game is? 1240 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,300 We really try 1241 00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:34,866 very hard 1242 00:24:34,866 --> 00:24:35,533 to separate 1243 00:24:35,533 --> 00:24:36,566 policy and politics. 1244 00:24:36,566 --> 00:24:38,100 And of course, there are times 1245 00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:39,700 where they intersect. 1246 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:40,766 But, you know, again, 1247 00:24:40,766 --> 00:24:42,800 today is not, it's a new day 1248 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:43,566 In Lansing. 1249 00:24:43,566 --> 00:24:43,866 Right? 1250 00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:46,233 We are very firmly focused on 1251 00:24:46,233 --> 00:24:46,733 those issues 1252 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,266 that still remain on the table 1253 00:24:48,266 --> 00:24:49,066 and still have 1254 00:24:49,066 --> 00:24:50,366 the threat of getting done. 1255 00:24:50,366 --> 00:24:51,333 And we're going to continue 1256 00:24:51,333 --> 00:24:51,700 to work 1257 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,400 with everyone and anyone 1258 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,366 everyone and anyone 1259 00:24:54,366 --> 00:24:55,766 who's willing to work with us 1260 00:24:55,766 --> 00:24:56,733 up until the end. 1261 00:24:56,733 --> 00:24:57,500 But again, 1262 00:24:57,500 --> 00:24:59,400 actions have consequences 1263 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,633 and we do engage politically. 1264 00:25:01,633 --> 00:25:02,600 As a professional 1265 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:03,433 political advocate. 1266 00:25:03,433 --> 00:25:04,300 You know, 1267 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:05,566 you just said just a minute ago 1268 00:25:05,566 --> 00:25:05,933 talking about 1269 00:25:06,133 --> 00:25:07,066 playing Whac-A-Mole, 1270 00:25:07,066 --> 00:25:07,666 well you're playing 1271 00:25:07,666 --> 00:25:08,166 whack a mole, perhaps 1272 00:25:08,433 --> 00:25:10,566 with these bills in the House. 1273 00:25:10,566 --> 00:25:11,033 You know, 1274 00:25:11,233 --> 00:25:12,000 Republicans are aligned 1275 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,533 in opposition, 1276 00:25:12,533 --> 00:25:13,866 only one Democrat 1277 00:25:13,866 --> 00:25:14,533 to say no 1278 00:25:14,533 --> 00:25:15,500 on a piece of legislation 1279 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:16,633 and two in the Senate. 1280 00:25:16,633 --> 00:25:17,800 How does that change the math 1281 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,100 for you? 1282 00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:19,733 Yeah, I mean, 1283 00:25:19,733 --> 00:25:20,466 and I think that's 1284 00:25:20,466 --> 00:25:21,766 been the problem all along. 1285 00:25:21,766 --> 00:25:22,433 Right? 1286 00:25:22,433 --> 00:25:23,800 Democrats have struggled 1287 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,066 with attendance issues. 1288 00:25:25,066 --> 00:25:25,533 They've struggled 1289 00:25:25,766 --> 00:25:26,866 with keeping their caucus 1290 00:25:26,866 --> 00:25:27,733 together. 1291 00:25:27,733 --> 00:25:28,366 Lame duck 1292 00:25:28,366 --> 00:25:29,033 seems to be 1293 00:25:29,033 --> 00:25:29,733 a little bit different. 1294 00:25:29,733 --> 00:25:30,566 We've gotten past 1295 00:25:30,566 --> 00:25:31,566 the attendance issues 1296 00:25:31,566 --> 00:25:33,900 that we had last week 1297 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:35,433 and we are continuing again 1298 00:25:35,433 --> 00:25:36,266 to talk to anyone 1299 00:25:36,266 --> 00:25:37,033 and everyone who's 1300 00:25:37,033 --> 00:25:37,800 willing to listen 1301 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,200 and to understand 1302 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,266 the harmful nature of all of 1303 00:25:41,266 --> 00:25:45,033 these various proposals. And 1304 00:25:45,033 --> 00:25:46,533 yeah, you know, 1305 00:25:46,533 --> 00:25:47,166 it's interesting. 1306 00:25:47,166 --> 00:25:47,800 I think sometimes 1307 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:48,200 people are like, 1308 00:25:48,533 --> 00:25:49,733 Oh, you should talk to X, Y 1309 00:25:49,733 --> 00:25:50,466 and Z, and it's like, 1310 00:25:50,466 --> 00:25:51,700 No, I'm talking to you. 1311 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:53,666 I'm asking you to be a no vote 1312 00:25:53,666 --> 00:25:54,533 and to explain to me 1313 00:25:54,533 --> 00:25:56,100 why you're not. 1314 00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:56,966 Because we think we have 1315 00:25:56,966 --> 00:25:58,533 a pretty compelling story here. 1316 00:25:58,533 --> 00:25:59,500 So there is 1317 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:00,433 a little bit of that 1318 00:26:00,433 --> 00:26:02,133 that's going on. 1319 00:26:02,133 --> 00:26:02,766 And frankly, 1320 00:26:02,766 --> 00:26:03,266 I think there's a 1321 00:26:03,266 --> 00:26:04,500 lot of fatigue. 1322 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:05,533 And, you know, 1323 00:26:05,533 --> 00:26:06,933 legislators are exhausted 1324 00:26:06,933 --> 00:26:07,933 as everybody else, 1325 00:26:07,933 --> 00:26:08,500 yourselves 1326 00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:09,266 probably included, 1327 00:26:09,266 --> 00:26:09,900 like last night 1328 00:26:10,233 --> 00:26:11,933 was a long night in House session, 1329 00:26:11,933 --> 00:26:13,100 you know, is turning around 1330 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:13,966 after the Senate 1331 00:26:13,966 --> 00:26:15,166 adjourned at 5:00 1332 00:26:15,166 --> 00:26:16,533 in the morning to 1333 00:26:16,533 --> 00:26:18,866 to convene session at 9 a.m. 1334 00:26:18,866 --> 00:26:20,200 There's not a lot of turnaround 1335 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:20,900 time here. 1336 00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:22,200 And everybody, 1337 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,433 you know, they get tired 1338 00:26:23,433 --> 00:26:24,033 and there's like, 1339 00:26:24,033 --> 00:26:24,700 fine, I'll vote 1340 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:25,600 yes if that means we can 1341 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,833 go home. Are you having fun? 1342 00:26:29,833 --> 00:26:30,466 In so 1343 00:26:30,466 --> 00:26:31,200 far as I have a 1344 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,566 sick and twisted 1345 00:26:32,566 --> 00:26:33,866 definition of fun, I guess. 1346 00:26:33,866 --> 00:26:34,400 Yes. 1347 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,166 Wendy we thank you 1348 00:26:35,166 --> 00:26:35,800 for being with us 1349 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:36,366 on our program. 1350 00:26:36,366 --> 00:26:37,000 Most of thanks 1351 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:37,900 you guys. 1352 00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:38,833 More off the record 1353 00:26:38,833 --> 00:26:40,100 right here next week. 1354 00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:40,766 Let's see what 1355 00:26:40,766 --> 00:26:41,733 this all ended up with. 1356 00:26:41,733 --> 00:26:44,300 Ey? Production of Off 1357 00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:45,033 the Record is made 1358 00:26:45,033 --> 00:26:45,866 possible in part 1359 00:26:45,866 --> 00:26:47,733 by Bellwether Public Relations, 1360 00:26:47,733 --> 00:26:48,533 a full service 1361 00:26:48,533 --> 00:26:50,133 strategic communications agency 1362 00:26:50,133 --> 00:26:51,133 partnering with clients 1363 00:26:51,133 --> 00:26:52,266 through public relations, 1364 00:26:52,266 --> 00:26:53,133 digital marketing 1365 00:26:53,133 --> 00:26:54,700 and issue advocacy. 1366 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:55,933 Learn more at bellwether 1367 00:26:55,933 --> 00:26:58,066 PR dot com. 1368 00:26:58,066 --> 00:26:59,866 For more off the record visit 1369 00:26:59,866 --> 00:27:01,533 WKAR dot org. 1370 00:27:01,533 --> 00:27:02,266 Michigan public 1371 00:27:02,266 --> 00:27:03,166 television stations 1372 00:27:03,166 --> 00:27:03,900 have contributed 1373 00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:04,933 to the production costs 1374 00:27:04,933 --> 00:27:06,033 of Off The Record.