1 00:00:01,233 --> 00:00:04,666 A person's story of incarceration is all too often 2 00:00:04,733 --> 00:00:06,900 depressingly familiar. 3 00:00:06,966 --> 00:00:10,666 Yet each story is as unique as a fingerprint, 4 00:00:10,733 --> 00:00:15,300 as distinctive as every individual's life experience. 5 00:00:15,366 --> 00:00:19,066 Life in prison is bracketed by what came before 6 00:00:19,133 --> 00:00:21,800 and what comes after. 7 00:00:21,866 --> 00:00:24,433 Seth Williams was Philadelphia's first black 8 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:26,333 district attorney. 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,733 While he was in office, he ran afoul of the law 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,433 and served nearly three years in a federal prison. 11 00:00:35,033 --> 00:00:40,066 His story upon his release at first was one of struggle 12 00:00:40,133 --> 00:00:41,800 and uncertainty. 13 00:00:41,866 --> 00:00:44,533 It was tough to find work, a place to live, 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,966 to regain his place in civil society. 15 00:00:48,033 --> 00:00:52,400 Now he's on a journey to rediscover the meaning of life 16 00:00:52,466 --> 00:00:54,366 beyond incarceration. 17 00:01:05,633 --> 00:01:09,200 Returning citizens is made possible by... 18 00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:44,233 The United Way, fostering the success of those who as they 19 00:01:44,300 --> 00:01:48,000 return to our neighborhoods, remain a largely untapped 20 00:01:48,066 --> 00:01:51,266 resource, the formerly incarcerated. 21 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:55,500 Waterman II Fund of the Philadelphia Foundation at the 22 00:01:55,566 --> 00:01:57,633 recommendation of David Haas, 23 00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:00,300 the Independence Foundation 24 00:02:04,966 --> 00:02:06,033 Five this morning. 25 00:02:06,100 --> 00:02:08,966 It was about 10:15 in the morning that Seth Williams 26 00:02:09,033 --> 00:02:12,133 acknowledged that he was going to enter this guilty plea. 27 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,566 So what this means is that he is facing a potential maximum 28 00:02:15,633 --> 00:02:18,233 of five years in prison. 29 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:21,300 Prosecutors are seeking the maximum term of five years 30 00:02:21,366 --> 00:02:22,833 in federal prison. 31 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,533 Williams officially lost his law license last week. 32 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,066 Philly's Eastern State Prison was the first penitentiary in 33 00:02:30,133 --> 00:02:34,000 the world, and now is an official historic site. 34 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,766 It's spooky, but it felt weirdly appropriate to meet 35 00:02:38,833 --> 00:02:40,000 Seth there. 36 00:02:40,366 --> 00:02:43,266 The district attorney who got locked up 37 00:02:43,333 --> 00:02:46,233 and now is a returning citizen. 38 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:48,900 I needed to hear his story. 39 00:02:49,633 --> 00:02:50,600 So, where'd you grow up? 40 00:02:50,666 --> 00:02:51,700 Sure. 41 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,066 Well, I grew up in West Philadelphia and I was given 42 00:02:53,133 --> 00:02:56,233 up for adoption at birth, and I was blessed to be adopted by 43 00:02:56,300 --> 00:02:57,900 wa, a wonderful family. 44 00:02:57,966 --> 00:02:59,733 Did you ever meet your birth parents? 45 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,866 I have now met my biological father, and that's a. 46 00:03:02,933 --> 00:03:03,866 Wow. 47 00:03:03,933 --> 00:03:05,133 We'll have to talk about that at some other time. 48 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:06,233 Yeah. 49 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:07,266 But, uh, he attended Georgetown Law School as well. 50 00:03:07,333 --> 00:03:07,933 Is that right? [crosstalk]. 51 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,033 That was 20 years before me. 52 00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:10,000 Wow. 53 00:03:10,066 --> 00:03:12,300 Um, And did you know he was at the law school? 54 00:03:12,366 --> 00:03:13,400 That's the same law school you went to? 55 00:03:13,466 --> 00:03:13,966 I did not. 56 00:03:14,033 --> 00:03:14,833 I did not know that. 57 00:03:14,900 --> 00:03:16,066 Wow. 58 00:03:16,133 --> 00:03:17,800 But I grew up in Philadelphia. My father was a school teacher. 59 00:03:17,866 --> 00:03:19,633 He ran a recreation center at night, 60 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:21,600 every night from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM. 61 00:03:21,666 --> 00:03:24,333 He ran a day camp, uh, in Philadelphia for kids. 62 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,233 So his whole life was, um, trying to increase the 63 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:30,633 opportunities for kids in our neighborhood. 64 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:32,100 Um, but I was very fortunate. 65 00:03:32,166 --> 00:03:34,133 I went to a wonderful Quaker school, 66 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,133 a private school. 67 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,533 I went to Catholic school for two years. 68 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,766 I went to Philadelphia's Central High School. 69 00:03:38,833 --> 00:03:42,133 I was nominated by my congressman to go to West Point. 70 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,066 Wow. 71 00:03:43,133 --> 00:03:44,466 I tell people I got a medical discharge. 72 00:03:44,533 --> 00:03:48,033 They found out I was allergic to calculus and chemistry. 73 00:03:48,100 --> 00:03:52,233 And so then I was accepted to become a public interest law 74 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:53,900 scholar at Georgetown. 75 00:03:53,966 --> 00:03:56,166 Through my criminal justice clinic experience at 76 00:03:56,233 --> 00:03:58,300 Georgetown, I found that, you know, 77 00:03:58,366 --> 00:04:00,800 the person with the most power in the criminal justice clinic 78 00:04:00,866 --> 00:04:03,933 isn't the best criminal defense attorney like Johnny Cochran 79 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,866 or the defense of the public defender. 80 00:04:05,933 --> 00:04:07,633 It's actually a young assistant district attorney 81 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:09,433 that's deciding who gets arrested, 82 00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:12,000 who doesn't get arrested, what are the appropriate charges, 83 00:04:12,066 --> 00:04:13,966 who has an arrest warrant approved, 84 00:04:14,033 --> 00:04:16,300 who has a search warrant approved or not. 85 00:04:16,366 --> 00:04:19,100 Um, and so I wanted to become an assistant district attorney. 86 00:04:19,166 --> 00:04:22,800 And in September of 1992, I became an assistant district 87 00:04:22,866 --> 00:04:25,200 attorney here in my hometown of Philadelphia. 88 00:04:25,266 --> 00:04:28,000 And, and so you were locking up a lot of people? 89 00:04:28,066 --> 00:04:29,800 Uh, you could say that. Yeah. I mean, I. 90 00:04:29,866 --> 00:04:31,066 And how did that feel? 91 00:04:31,133 --> 00:04:34,500 Um, well, again, at the time I thought my role was to get my 92 00:04:34,566 --> 00:04:37,133 cases ready to try my ready cases, 93 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,933 but I didn't really have any philosophical understanding of 94 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,000 what I was doing, how it affected the individuals or 95 00:04:46,066 --> 00:04:48,300 how it affected the community. 96 00:04:48,366 --> 00:04:50,733 Did you get any, like, tough sentences? 97 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,000 Like did you get guy sentenced to life without parole or 98 00:04:53,066 --> 00:04:54,166 death, anything like that? 99 00:04:54,233 --> 00:04:56,000 Yeah, so when I was in the major trials unit, 100 00:04:56,066 --> 00:04:59,966 I filed, um, I tried the first two cases in Pennsylvania 101 00:05:00,033 --> 00:05:03,100 under Pennsylvania's new three strikes in your Outlaw, 102 00:05:03,166 --> 00:05:04,733 which is different than California. 103 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:05,700 It's been in Pennsylvania. 104 00:05:05,766 --> 00:05:07,633 You had to have been convicted of, 105 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:11,633 um, at least two prior felonies of the first degree 106 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:14,700 gunpoint, robbery, a shooting, a gun, 107 00:05:14,766 --> 00:05:16,233 a bank robbery, rape. 108 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:18,633 And I tried two cases, and as a result, 109 00:05:18,700 --> 00:05:20,800 individuals were sentenced to life without 110 00:05:20,866 --> 00:05:21,833 the possibility of parole. 111 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:23,100 Wow. 112 00:05:23,166 --> 00:05:25,566 And how did that feel knowing that you were locking up guys 113 00:05:25,633 --> 00:05:27,566 basically like for the rest of their life? 114 00:05:27,633 --> 00:05:29,600 At the time, I just thought, I, 115 00:05:29,666 --> 00:05:32,133 I still, I didn't, hadn't evolved really to understand 116 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,366 the scope of it, what it meant, 117 00:05:34,433 --> 00:05:37,133 what the statistics were like nationally. 118 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,466 Um, didn't... 119 00:05:38,533 --> 00:05:40,733 So you were sentencing people to die in prison, 120 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,633 but it didn't like make a real impact and you, at that time, 121 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:45,800 At that time, I thought, 122 00:05:45,866 --> 00:05:48,133 well, this is what the prior record score is. 123 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,900 This is their offense gravity score. 124 00:05:49,966 --> 00:05:53,633 The legislature has said, has, has said this is appropriate. 125 00:05:53,700 --> 00:05:57,766 My role in it is just to get the witnesses here to, 126 00:05:57,833 --> 00:06:01,466 you know, try to do the best I can to present the evidence to 127 00:06:01,533 --> 00:06:03,033 the jury and the judge. 128 00:06:03,100 --> 00:06:03,866 You're just doing your job. 129 00:06:03,933 --> 00:06:05,633 Doing, doing my job. 130 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:07,900 You ran against your boss. 131 00:06:07,966 --> 00:06:09,933 You lost the first time. 132 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,066 Uh, so you got a different job, 133 00:06:12,133 --> 00:06:15,400 uh, and then you wanted to run for DA again? 134 00:06:15,466 --> 00:06:17,133 I ran again in 2009. 135 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,166 And you got 75% of the vote. 136 00:06:20,233 --> 00:06:21,566 I won 75% of the vote. 137 00:06:21,633 --> 00:06:23,066 I became, - Dude, how'd you do that? 138 00:06:23,133 --> 00:06:26,266 Um, I think again, it was about just retail politics and 139 00:06:26,333 --> 00:06:27,833 going out and talking to people, 140 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:29,700 looking them in their eye and just listening. 141 00:06:29,766 --> 00:06:32,000 And you were the first black district attorney? 142 00:06:32,066 --> 00:06:33,266 Yeah, I was elected. 143 00:06:33,333 --> 00:06:35,466 I became the first African American district attorney, 144 00:06:35,533 --> 00:06:37,166 not only in the history of Philadelphia, 145 00:06:37,233 --> 00:06:39,733 but the entire history of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. 146 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:40,933 Wow. 147 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,800 And how did that feel being the first African American 148 00:06:42,866 --> 00:06:44,433 prosecutor, head prosecutor? 149 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:48,066 I was very proud and very grateful for the opportunity. 150 00:06:48,133 --> 00:06:51,066 Um, I didn't think about, everybody was telling me, 151 00:06:51,133 --> 00:06:52,300 you're gonna have a target on your back. 152 00:06:52,366 --> 00:06:53,233 You're gonna have a target on your back. 153 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:55,266 And I never really thought about that. 154 00:06:55,333 --> 00:06:57,300 Um, and I should have more. 155 00:06:57,366 --> 00:07:03,966 So, you know, you were charged with a number of felonies. 156 00:07:04,033 --> 00:07:05,366 Correct. 157 00:07:05,433 --> 00:07:07,433 How, how did that come about? 158 00:07:07,500 --> 00:07:12,933 Well, I should have reported all the gifts that I ever received 159 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,933 and some gifts from my friends I probably should not 160 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,133 have accepted. 161 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,100 But the bigger point is I found myself in federal prison. 162 00:07:19,166 --> 00:07:21,100 Um, I lost my pension. 163 00:07:21,166 --> 00:07:22,466 I lost my reputation. 164 00:07:22,533 --> 00:07:23,766 I lost my liberty. 165 00:07:23,833 --> 00:07:26,966 I spent five months in solitary confinement. 166 00:07:27,033 --> 00:07:28,366 Um, and it wasn't until I ... 167 00:07:28,433 --> 00:07:30,466 Why why were you in solitary confinement? 168 00:07:30,533 --> 00:07:32,233 They placed me in solitary confinement. 169 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,566 They claimed for my own safety. 170 00:07:34,633 --> 00:07:35,933 They thought that people might want to kill me 171 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,633 or beat me up in prison. 172 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:38,533 Because you had been up... 173 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:39,733 Because I had been the DA. 174 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:45,266 Um, so I spent the first 152 days of my 60 month sentence 175 00:07:45,333 --> 00:07:47,166 in solitary confinement. 176 00:07:47,233 --> 00:07:51,166 And the United Nations, um, uh, 177 00:07:51,233 --> 00:07:53,833 Amnesty International all say that anything more than 178 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:56,966 10 days in solitary confinement is deleterious 179 00:07:57,033 --> 00:07:58,066 to your mental health. 180 00:07:58,133 --> 00:07:59,700 So I experienced all those things. 181 00:07:59,766 --> 00:08:01,566 I went through that process. 182 00:08:01,633 --> 00:08:05,266 Um, I then befriended people that were in jail, 183 00:08:05,333 --> 00:08:08,033 people that I had been, I spent my life prosecuting or 184 00:08:08,100 --> 00:08:09,466 defending 'cause I was a criminal defense 185 00:08:09,533 --> 00:08:10,566 attorney as well. 186 00:08:10,633 --> 00:08:12,400 Um, I found my... - And now you were in prison. 187 00:08:12,466 --> 00:08:13,933 I found myself in prison. - What was that like? 188 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,400 I mean, when you were convicted, 189 00:08:16,466 --> 00:08:20,066 they put handcuffs on you in the courtroom. 190 00:08:20,133 --> 00:08:21,300 Correct. 191 00:08:21,366 --> 00:08:25,733 You asked to see your mom and the judge was like, hell no. 192 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,000 Right. 193 00:08:27,066 --> 00:08:30,100 I had been told by the federal prosecutors that I could enter 194 00:08:30,166 --> 00:08:32,933 the guilty plea, remain on bail for about four or five 195 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,600 months until the sentencing, help my daughters get 196 00:08:35,666 --> 00:08:37,433 everything at our, our affairs in order, 197 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:40,166 as they say, take my kids to therapy, sell the house. 198 00:08:40,233 --> 00:08:42,200 I went to court that morning. 199 00:08:42,266 --> 00:08:44,300 I entered the guilty plea thinking I was going home that 200 00:08:44,366 --> 00:08:46,133 day at lunch, I had told my daughters 201 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:47,333 I'd be home for lunch. 202 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,533 Um, the judge had his own idea. 203 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,900 I got handcuffed in court, taken underground, 204 00:08:52,966 --> 00:08:55,266 strip searched, given an orange jumpsuit placed in my 205 00:08:55,333 --> 00:08:58,433 own single solitary confinement cell 206 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:00,300 where I remained for five months. 207 00:09:00,366 --> 00:09:03,333 How, how did you literally get to the federal prison 208 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:04,166 from Philly? 209 00:09:04,233 --> 00:09:05,500 Right. So, 210 00:09:05,566 --> 00:09:07,966 um, there's a bus, the Federal Marshals bus 211 00:09:08,033 --> 00:09:10,366 transport people all around the country. 212 00:09:10,433 --> 00:09:13,566 They also have airplanes that are known as Con Air. 213 00:09:13,633 --> 00:09:15,333 Colon Air. - Convict Airlines. 214 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:16,566 Wow. - Right. 215 00:09:16,633 --> 00:09:20,333 At the airport there surrounding the tarmac were US marshals 216 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,100 with shotguns and M16s. 217 00:09:22,166 --> 00:09:27,100 Uh, I heard my name Rufuss Williams, 75926066. 218 00:09:27,166 --> 00:09:28,300 I had to board a plane. 219 00:09:28,366 --> 00:09:29,366 What, what's that number? 220 00:09:29,433 --> 00:09:31,566 That was my federal prison inmate number. 221 00:09:31,633 --> 00:09:32,900 And you still remember? - Of course. 222 00:09:32,966 --> 00:09:34,533 That's how I was known. I was just a number. 223 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,200 I was no longer a person. I was just the number. 224 00:09:37,266 --> 00:09:38,900 Um, and I boarded that airplane, 225 00:09:38,966 --> 00:09:40,466 handcuffed to the men in the row. 226 00:09:40,533 --> 00:09:43,966 And I spent the next 29 months at the Federal Correctional 227 00:09:44,033 --> 00:09:46,166 Institution in Morgantown. 228 00:09:46,233 --> 00:09:48,266 Um, and so I, once I got there, 229 00:09:48,333 --> 00:09:51,700 I taught GED, I learned how to play the saxophone. 230 00:09:51,766 --> 00:09:53,900 I became the beginner saxophone instructor. 231 00:09:53,966 --> 00:09:55,466 Who taught you how to play the saxophone? 232 00:09:55,533 --> 00:09:56,600 I was self-taught. 233 00:09:56,666 --> 00:09:58,833 There was the instructor that was before me left. 234 00:09:58,900 --> 00:10:01,066 Um, I learned how to play the piano. 235 00:10:01,133 --> 00:10:03,866 I began teaching Bible study. 236 00:10:03,933 --> 00:10:06,500 Um, I was on the over 40 basketball team 237 00:10:06,566 --> 00:10:08,300 and we won the championship. 238 00:10:08,366 --> 00:10:11,066 Um, and so I really learned a lot from that experience. 239 00:10:11,133 --> 00:10:12,066 And just seeing... 240 00:10:12,133 --> 00:10:12,666 You're kind of making it sound like prison was, 241 00:10:12,733 --> 00:10:14,133 was good for you. 242 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,233 Prison, um, was great for me in many ways, 243 00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:20,200 but not because of the Bureau of Prisons. 244 00:10:20,266 --> 00:10:22,666 And how, how did the other inmates react to you? 245 00:10:22,733 --> 00:10:25,100 Did they all know that you were the DA? 246 00:10:25,166 --> 00:10:27,733 So they put me originally in solitary 'cause they thought 247 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,000 these people might want to kill me. 248 00:10:29,066 --> 00:10:31,966 Um, the truth is, I was helping people write letters 249 00:10:32,033 --> 00:10:34,800 to their lawyers, write letters to their family. 250 00:10:34,866 --> 00:10:37,533 Um, and then I began teaching GED. 251 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,833 I learned a lot though teaching GED in prison and by 252 00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:43,766 being with these men that most of them never had problems 253 00:10:43,833 --> 00:10:44,733 getting jobs. 254 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,833 They had problems keeping jobs, 255 00:10:46,900 --> 00:10:49,733 poor conflict resolution, addictions, 256 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,533 traumas as, as young men. 257 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,966 And when you came home, you had a problem getting a job? 258 00:10:55,033 --> 00:10:56,733 Yeah, everybody gave me the Heisman. 259 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,233 People treated me like I was radioactive. 260 00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:01,966 I had been canceled by the society. 261 00:11:02,033 --> 00:11:05,966 Talk about a full circle moment when Seth was District attorney, 262 00:11:06,033 --> 00:11:08,266 George Mosey was his right hand man. 263 00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:10,500 Now George leads the Philadelphia 264 00:11:10,566 --> 00:11:12,500 Anti-Violence Network. 265 00:11:12,566 --> 00:11:16,366 George knows how much returning citizens have to contribute. 266 00:11:16,433 --> 00:11:18,600 That's why he offered one of them, 267 00:11:18,666 --> 00:11:22,500 his old boss, Seth Williams, a job. 268 00:11:22,566 --> 00:11:25,533 The day you leave prison, what happened right after that? 269 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,300 Well, I was told the conditions of my release. 270 00:11:27,366 --> 00:11:28,600 I had to have a job. 271 00:11:28,666 --> 00:11:30,900 I had to have a place to live. 272 00:11:30,966 --> 00:11:33,100 Um, but the Federal fire support didn't help me get 273 00:11:33,166 --> 00:11:34,300 either of those. 274 00:11:34,366 --> 00:11:36,000 They put a monitor on my ankle, 275 00:11:36,066 --> 00:11:37,700 told me best of luck. 276 00:11:37,766 --> 00:11:40,000 So I began working at Lowe's. 277 00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:40,900 Lowe's? 278 00:11:40,966 --> 00:11:42,633 Lowe's, just, um, unloading trucks, 279 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:43,766 stocking shelves. 280 00:11:43,833 --> 00:11:44,433 Then I was... 281 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:45,833 Dude, you had a law degree. 282 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:47,066 No one would hire me. 283 00:11:47,133 --> 00:11:48,300 I applied for jobs. 284 00:11:48,366 --> 00:11:51,266 I taught GED for almost three years in prison for I could 285 00:11:51,333 --> 00:11:54,500 teach GED when I got home, but those people wouldn't hire me. 286 00:11:54,566 --> 00:11:57,166 And how did you end up in this space? 287 00:11:57,233 --> 00:12:00,933 Um, at the end of my tenure as being the district attorney, 288 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,500 um, George was my first assistant. 289 00:12:03,566 --> 00:12:06,833 So he basically ran the office of 600 people and was the 290 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:10,166 heart, um, and the conscience of that office and just was 291 00:12:10,233 --> 00:12:12,100 the right person at the right time. 292 00:12:12,166 --> 00:12:13,766 I'm very thankful for that. 293 00:12:13,833 --> 00:12:15,833 But when George found out I was home, 294 00:12:15,900 --> 00:12:18,633 you know, and as a result, also what I learned while 295 00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:22,233 I was away, that any solution to reducing gun violence, 296 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:25,900 preventing crime, we're gonna have to engage the men 297 00:12:25,966 --> 00:12:28,300 primarily who are most likely to be shot 298 00:12:28,366 --> 00:12:29,666 and to do the shooting. 299 00:12:29,733 --> 00:12:32,600 That was the concept of our focus deterrence and the 300 00:12:32,666 --> 00:12:35,466 diversionary programs that George helped run while, 301 00:12:35,533 --> 00:12:36,866 while I was the DA. 302 00:12:36,933 --> 00:12:39,766 And that's exactly what he's doing here at the Philadelphia 303 00:12:39,833 --> 00:12:42,600 Anti-Drug, Anti-Violence Network. 304 00:12:42,666 --> 00:12:45,433 And so when I learned more about credible messengers 305 00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:48,500 while I was in prison, and I talked to men who were in 306 00:12:48,566 --> 00:12:50,533 prison who told me what they wish they could have done 307 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,566 differently or how they wish they could talk to their young 308 00:12:53,633 --> 00:12:56,333 brothers that were on the street now to make a different 309 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,300 path and to make different choices and to, 310 00:12:59,366 --> 00:13:02,333 you know, do other things in a positive way 311 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:03,433 for the community. 312 00:13:03,533 --> 00:13:06,000 It was just a, it was a blessing that George reached 313 00:13:06,066 --> 00:13:08,700 out to me and allowed me to become a part of 314 00:13:08,766 --> 00:13:10,233 the Pan family. 315 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:13,566 And when he came home, you wanted to help out? 316 00:13:13,633 --> 00:13:18,800 Well, um, you know, I could make it seem like I was doing 317 00:13:18,866 --> 00:13:22,633 this benevolent act, but this is a brilliant young man, 318 00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:26,800 you know, he's, uh, an asset everywhere that he goes. 319 00:13:26,866 --> 00:13:29,033 And I jumped at the opportunity to bring him on 320 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:30,833 board to help us with our mission. 321 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:34,000 And was there something about the experiences he had even 322 00:13:34,066 --> 00:13:36,600 in prison that you thought would make him 323 00:13:36,666 --> 00:13:38,000 a really good fit for you? 324 00:13:38,066 --> 00:13:41,066 Well, uh, our primary strategy employs on 325 00:13:41,133 --> 00:13:42,733 using credible messengers. 326 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,133 You know, people who have lived lives that are 327 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,900 consistent with the lives of the people that we're trying 328 00:13:46,966 --> 00:13:48,033 to reach. 329 00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:51,000 Often that means that they've served time in prison. 330 00:13:51,066 --> 00:13:53,433 Uh, and I heard you do - house calls 331 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:54,566 That's our motto. 332 00:13:54,633 --> 00:13:56,200 And what's that? - House calls what? 333 00:13:56,266 --> 00:13:59,900 Uh, so, you know, there are programs that operate behind 334 00:13:59,966 --> 00:14:01,300 the four walls. 335 00:14:01,366 --> 00:14:04,100 Uh, and we are brick and mortar operation, 336 00:14:04,166 --> 00:14:07,033 but you'll see our vehicles throughout the city 337 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:08,266 of Philadelphia. 338 00:14:08,333 --> 00:14:11,300 We deploy our people every day into the areas that are hit 339 00:14:11,366 --> 00:14:12,733 hardest by violence. 340 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,500 And so we're on the street canvassing, 341 00:14:15,566 --> 00:14:18,266 uh, we respond to every shooting. 342 00:14:18,333 --> 00:14:21,466 Uh, so if someone gets shot, unfortunately in the city of 343 00:14:21,533 --> 00:14:25,366 Philadelphia, Pan is gonna be there within 24 hours. 344 00:14:25,433 --> 00:14:28,033 So I, I can't imagine what it would be like for somebody 345 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:30,333 who's just suffered a traumatic act. 346 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,500 Maybe their, their son was shot and then you got people, 347 00:14:34,566 --> 00:14:36,033 strangers knocking at the door. 348 00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:37,800 Like, how do, how do they respond? 349 00:14:37,866 --> 00:14:39,333 Well, we hope that they're not strangers 350 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,033 because they're in the community every day. 351 00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:44,266 And we hope that they've developed a relationship with 352 00:14:44,333 --> 00:14:47,566 people who know the people, if not directly with the people 353 00:14:47,633 --> 00:14:50,066 who have been impacted by the trauma. 354 00:14:50,133 --> 00:14:53,066 Uh, but if that's not the case, 355 00:14:53,133 --> 00:14:55,200 that's why you got these people who are credible 356 00:14:55,266 --> 00:14:56,400 in the neighborhood. 357 00:14:56,466 --> 00:14:59,066 They know how to approach someone from that neighborhood 358 00:14:59,133 --> 00:15:02,466 to speak to them in a way that's gonna put them at ease 359 00:15:02,533 --> 00:15:04,233 so they won't be turned off. 360 00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:07,366 I mean, uh, I think one of the biggest hurdles for us to 361 00:15:07,433 --> 00:15:10,933 overcome in terms of addressing the violence is we 362 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,600 have to make sure that people know about the resources 363 00:15:13,666 --> 00:15:15,400 that are available to them. 364 00:15:15,466 --> 00:15:17,366 And the best way to do that, in my opinion, 365 00:15:17,433 --> 00:15:18,933 is with people who are credible. 366 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,266 That credibility boils down to common sense, 367 00:15:23,333 --> 00:15:25,966 a kind of spider sense that they've developed 368 00:15:26,033 --> 00:15:27,233 over the years. 369 00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:30,866 It's part of what helped them to survive in those communities. 370 00:15:30,933 --> 00:15:34,300 It's part of what helped us to survive where we grew up. 371 00:15:34,366 --> 00:15:37,100 And, um, you simply put 'em out there and, 372 00:15:37,166 --> 00:15:39,500 and they know who to talk to. 373 00:15:39,566 --> 00:15:44,100 In many cases, they already know who the shooters are. 374 00:15:44,166 --> 00:15:47,966 And they make it a a point to reach out to them, 375 00:15:48,033 --> 00:15:48,900 to speak to them. 376 00:15:48,966 --> 00:15:51,100 And we assure them that we're not there 377 00:15:51,166 --> 00:15:52,800 to help to investigate. 378 00:15:52,866 --> 00:15:55,666 We're not there to bring them to justice for something that 379 00:15:55,733 --> 00:15:59,000 they may have done or something that they will do. 380 00:15:59,066 --> 00:16:00,500 We're trying to prevent it. 381 00:16:00,566 --> 00:16:04,433 Pan deploys teams to the most under-resourced 382 00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:06,300 neighborhoods in Philly. 383 00:16:06,366 --> 00:16:09,500 They work with anybody who can use their help, 384 00:16:09,566 --> 00:16:13,566 including crime victims and people at risk for getting 385 00:16:13,633 --> 00:16:15,833 caught up in the system. 386 00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:19,366 Some team members have survived the same issues. 387 00:16:19,433 --> 00:16:22,600 They're now helping their neighbors work through. 388 00:16:22,666 --> 00:16:25,300 They get respect on the street 389 00:16:25,366 --> 00:16:28,400 because they've earned their job title. 390 00:16:28,466 --> 00:16:30,966 Credible messengers. 391 00:16:31,033 --> 00:16:33,000 And there was a shooting in this area? 392 00:16:33,066 --> 00:16:34,366 Yeah, it was a shooting here. 393 00:16:34,433 --> 00:16:37,133 A little girl got shot, 11-year-old, 394 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,433 11-year-old child, got shot, went through a shot in the arm 395 00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:42,300 and went, came out underneath her arm. 396 00:16:42,366 --> 00:16:43,600 Now how did she get shot? 397 00:16:43,666 --> 00:16:47,366 Well, uh, she, when we spoke with the family about a week 398 00:16:47,433 --> 00:16:49,666 or so ago, right after it happened, 399 00:16:49,733 --> 00:16:52,733 the young lady said that she was out playing with her 400 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,366 siblings, her two little sisters and a little brother. 401 00:16:55,433 --> 00:16:59,033 And they heard a, a little domestic going on and her 402 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:03,133 argument, um, uh, man and a woman was arguing and the 403 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,466 young lady somehow just happened to see what was going on. 404 00:17:06,533 --> 00:17:11,500 And she saw a gun and she had her little siblings and she 405 00:17:11,566 --> 00:17:15,866 literally jumped on top of her siblings as the shots was fired. 406 00:17:15,933 --> 00:17:18,200 11-year-old girl, - 11-year-old young lady, 407 00:17:18,266 --> 00:17:20,566 shots were fired and she was hit in her shoulder, 408 00:17:20,633 --> 00:17:22,266 came through her armpit. 409 00:17:22,333 --> 00:17:24,000 Oh my God. Is she okay? 410 00:17:24,066 --> 00:17:25,333 Uh, she's doing well. 411 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,333 She's in good spares. Right. 412 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,300 Great. Spares. 413 00:17:27,366 --> 00:17:28,533 You, you be shocked. 414 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,400 But you know, it's just the fact of the matter that the kids, 415 00:17:31,466 --> 00:17:35,066 they got a new place to play and stuff and stuff still going on. 416 00:17:35,133 --> 00:17:37,300 So, and it don't matter who does it, 417 00:17:37,366 --> 00:17:39,033 it is women, guys and whoever. 418 00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:42,200 We all still gotta look after our youth, regardless. 419 00:17:42,266 --> 00:17:44,800 And how soon after the shooting did you guys come out? 420 00:17:44,866 --> 00:17:46,900 We came out the very next day. - The very next day. 421 00:17:46,966 --> 00:17:50,366 Because it happened like after, like after a little later. 422 00:17:50,433 --> 00:17:51,366 Right. 423 00:17:51,466 --> 00:17:52,500 Where we get it the next day, we come right out. 424 00:17:52,566 --> 00:17:53,133 Right. 425 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,366 You know what I'm saying? 426 00:17:54,433 --> 00:17:55,966 We be the first one on it just to see can we help with the 427 00:17:56,033 --> 00:17:59,133 families, support them in any way we can 'cause we know the 428 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:00,766 feeling, we know how things go. 429 00:18:00,833 --> 00:18:02,466 And what type of services do you try to provide to folks? 430 00:18:02,533 --> 00:18:05,700 Well, we provide like, um, mental services, 431 00:18:05,766 --> 00:18:11,866 aftercare, clothing, food, you know, uh, uh, uh, trauma. 432 00:18:11,933 --> 00:18:13,166 Right. - Whatever we can do. 433 00:18:13,233 --> 00:18:14,300 We, we here, that's what we do. 434 00:18:14,366 --> 00:18:15,400 That's why they call us Pan. 435 00:18:15,466 --> 00:18:15,933 Right. 436 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,133 Try to get it done. 437 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,800 And so you were here right after the little girl was shot. 438 00:18:21,866 --> 00:18:23,300 Correct. - And now you're back. 439 00:18:23,366 --> 00:18:24,700 Why are you back? 440 00:18:24,766 --> 00:18:28,300 Well, we back, we, we back, me and my partner, 441 00:18:28,366 --> 00:18:30,566 we back because we promised the families, 442 00:18:30,633 --> 00:18:32,466 you know, people come and see you one day, 443 00:18:32,533 --> 00:18:34,233 then you don't see or hear from no more. 444 00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:35,400 Yeah. 445 00:18:35,466 --> 00:18:37,433 We make sure and keep coming back and check up on you, 446 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:38,733 make sure you, okay. 447 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,000 So let you know we still supporting you regardless 448 00:18:41,066 --> 00:18:42,200 after the fact. - Right. 449 00:18:42,266 --> 00:18:44,000 And that's what the other organizations don't do. 450 00:18:44,066 --> 00:18:45,200 But we do. 451 00:18:45,266 --> 00:18:46,800 We doing what we call a follow up. 452 00:18:46,866 --> 00:18:48,533 So we make sure we give 'em all the, 453 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,133 all the, uh, services that we do. 454 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,666 We call it a referral that we give to our human service. 455 00:18:53,733 --> 00:18:55,800 And we, you know, we help the family. 456 00:18:55,866 --> 00:18:57,766 Like I say, we do our trauma care. 457 00:18:57,833 --> 00:18:59,866 Uh, she got wound care. She has a wound. 458 00:18:59,933 --> 00:19:02,166 So we, we help 'em out with bandages and they need 459 00:19:02,233 --> 00:19:04,833 bandages and talk to 'em to keep their spirits lifted 460 00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:05,900 a little bit. 461 00:19:05,966 --> 00:19:08,200 She's, uh, she's in great spirits for 11-year-old 462 00:19:08,266 --> 00:19:09,066 shooting victim. 463 00:19:09,133 --> 00:19:09,900 Yeah. 464 00:19:09,966 --> 00:19:11,033 She's, she's strong, she's strong. 465 00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:12,600 Little, little kid. 466 00:19:12,666 --> 00:19:13,800 You talk about this. 467 00:19:13,866 --> 00:19:17,433 So like, matter of factly, but 11-year-old girl got shot. 468 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:18,300 Yeah. 469 00:19:18,366 --> 00:19:19,300 Very unfortunate. 470 00:19:19,366 --> 00:19:20,800 It's unfortunately, you know what I mean? 471 00:19:20,866 --> 00:19:25,133 But she's here so she can live and talk about it and try to 472 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,000 get, you know, I and try to help other youth pay attention 473 00:19:28,066 --> 00:19:28,833 to what's going on too. 474 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:30,666 Also, even though you are a youth, 475 00:19:30,733 --> 00:19:31,900 but you still gotta feel aware. 476 00:19:31,966 --> 00:19:35,133 Where, where do you guys get the strength to do this work? 477 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,000 Just give it back for being, you know, 478 00:19:37,066 --> 00:19:39,566 coming up in the, around it, you know what I'm saying? 479 00:19:39,633 --> 00:19:40,733 Being around it, you know. 480 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,466 Where you stem from, but just comes. 481 00:19:43,533 --> 00:19:44,766 It's something that happens every day. 482 00:19:44,833 --> 00:19:46,533 We deal with it. 483 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,833 It feel good to give back, you know what I mean? 484 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:50,266 Because when you come up as, you know, 485 00:19:50,333 --> 00:19:53,400 a street person, so you want to give back sometimes. 486 00:19:53,466 --> 00:19:55,000 It ain't all bad. - Right. 487 00:19:55,066 --> 00:19:57,566 You know what I'm saying? - We can kind of see it coming. 488 00:19:57,633 --> 00:19:59,266 For a lot of the, uh, teenagers, 489 00:19:59,333 --> 00:20:00,666 we kind of see it coming. 490 00:20:00,733 --> 00:20:05,200 So we, our job is kind of deterred them from getting 491 00:20:05,266 --> 00:20:06,633 into the streets like that. 492 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:09,533 So we offer jobs, uh, schooling, 493 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,800 training, a lot of other stuff that when we out here, 494 00:20:12,866 --> 00:20:15,700 what we call canvassing and we walk up on these corners and 495 00:20:15,766 --> 00:20:18,233 talk to these young guys, we got something to offer. 496 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:20,700 And that, and that's kind of our way of giving back. 497 00:20:20,766 --> 00:20:22,300 We offer them jobs and, you know, 498 00:20:22,366 --> 00:20:24,000 try to get 'em off the street. - Give 'em hope. 499 00:20:24,066 --> 00:20:24,966 Yeah. Give 'em hope. 500 00:20:25,033 --> 00:20:27,766 What, what makes you a credible messenger? 501 00:20:27,833 --> 00:20:30,500 No, un unfortunately, when I was 17, 502 00:20:30,566 --> 00:20:32,333 I was convicted, first degree murder. 503 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,966 Since life without parole, I ended up serving two 504 00:20:35,033 --> 00:20:35,866 and a half years in prison. 505 00:20:35,933 --> 00:20:37,333 Wait, how, how old were you when you... 506 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,000 I was 17 when I went in. 507 00:20:39,066 --> 00:20:40,466 And you were sentenced to... 508 00:20:40,533 --> 00:20:43,600 Life for without parole in 27 and a half to 55 years, 509 00:20:43,666 --> 00:20:44,900 running a consecutive. 510 00:20:44,966 --> 00:20:46,133 Wow. 511 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,100 You know, so basically I saw I was never getting out again. 512 00:20:49,166 --> 00:20:51,133 You know, that was it for me, you know, so, 513 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,633 But here you are. - Yeah, I am. 514 00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:53,633 And how did that happen? 515 00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:56,133 You know, while outside I did a lot of work. 516 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,400 President NAAACP, they worked with different, 517 00:20:58,466 --> 00:21:00,633 different organizations, created organizations. 518 00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:02,933 I worked with a lot of politicians inside the walls. 519 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,166 I did a lot of things, you know, to better myself. 520 00:21:05,233 --> 00:21:07,200 And it changed who I was, you know, 521 00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:10,100 and, and unfortunately in 2000, 522 00:21:10,166 --> 00:21:13,433 uh, 12, a law changed called Millerford, Alabama. 523 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:14,933 The Supreme Court decided a case 524 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,100 Exactly. 525 00:21:16,166 --> 00:21:17,666 When that changed, they gave me the opportunity to make 526 00:21:17,733 --> 00:21:18,966 parole, you know. 527 00:21:19,033 --> 00:21:21,500 So it changed, it changed in 2012. 528 00:21:21,566 --> 00:21:24,566 They fought four years [indistinct] for a couple years. 529 00:21:24,633 --> 00:21:25,966 I came home in 2019. 530 00:21:26,033 --> 00:21:26,933 Wow. 531 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,600 Know upon coming home, I worked in reentry. 532 00:21:29,666 --> 00:21:32,100 You know, my first day home I was doing re-entry work. 533 00:21:32,166 --> 00:21:33,933 Then somebody told me about the program mayor, 534 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,300 you know, he said it was George Moey runs the program, 535 00:21:36,366 --> 00:21:37,466 so you might, you might know him. 536 00:21:37,533 --> 00:21:39,066 I said, well, I heard a lot about him, 537 00:21:39,133 --> 00:21:42,500 you know, from a prosecutor, very, very fair individual. 538 00:21:42,566 --> 00:21:43,833 I said, let me interview. 539 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:45,700 And I interviewed and I, I got the job, you know. 540 00:21:45,766 --> 00:21:46,233 Wow. 541 00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:47,300 And last question. 542 00:21:47,366 --> 00:21:49,433 How, how do you feel about your work now? 543 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:50,700 It's my life. 544 00:21:50,766 --> 00:21:53,433 You know, I feel like, oh, the death to society. 545 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:54,833 You know, I paid my debt to the system 546 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:56,300 by doing the time in prison. 547 00:21:56,366 --> 00:21:59,866 But I took a life, you know, how can you repair taking a life? 548 00:21:59,933 --> 00:22:02,200 You know, my religion that says you take one life, 549 00:22:02,266 --> 00:22:03,933 like heal the life of the whole world. 550 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,066 You save life. 551 00:22:05,133 --> 00:22:06,733 Like, it's like you saved life for the whole world. 552 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,000 So my penance man, and you know, 553 00:22:09,066 --> 00:22:10,800 is to do the right thing. 554 00:22:10,866 --> 00:22:12,266 Try to save lives out here. 555 00:22:12,333 --> 00:22:14,200 You know, unfortunately I made a terrible mistake 556 00:22:14,266 --> 00:22:15,966 that I can't reverse. 557 00:22:16,033 --> 00:22:18,366 But I can use my story to use my, 558 00:22:18,433 --> 00:22:20,600 my knowledge and my journey to make sure other people don't 559 00:22:20,666 --> 00:22:21,800 make the same mistake. 560 00:22:21,866 --> 00:22:24,666 So there might, there might be some people who say, 561 00:22:24,733 --> 00:22:29,100 this dude locked up all these people when he was the DA, 562 00:22:29,166 --> 00:22:33,566 then he gets locked up and now he gets it. 563 00:22:33,633 --> 00:22:36,966 Well, he should have got it a lot earlier. 564 00:22:37,033 --> 00:22:39,166 Well, that's a fair assessment. 565 00:22:39,233 --> 00:22:40,433 I can't argue with that. 566 00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:42,500 All I know is about my own life journey, 567 00:22:42,566 --> 00:22:44,400 my own spiritual journey. 568 00:22:44,466 --> 00:22:47,466 And I really believe now, and I used to tell people, 569 00:22:47,533 --> 00:22:49,100 um, if I could do it all over again, 570 00:22:49,166 --> 00:22:50,633 I would've been more like my father. 571 00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:53,833 'cause what I think now is I can do more to prevent crime 572 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:57,366 and to reduce recidivism by teaching vocational skills, 573 00:22:57,433 --> 00:23:00,300 workforce development to returning citizens. 574 00:23:00,366 --> 00:23:01,833 So if you could do it over again, 575 00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:04,000 you would not have become a prosecutor? 576 00:23:04,066 --> 00:23:04,733 No. 577 00:23:04,833 --> 00:23:06,066 If I could do it all over again. 578 00:23:06,133 --> 00:23:08,866 Um, well, I think I would've been happy being a, 579 00:23:08,933 --> 00:23:11,800 a, a high school history teacher and football coach and 580 00:23:11,866 --> 00:23:13,966 running a day camp in the summer like my dad. 581 00:23:14,033 --> 00:23:16,833 And really addressing the individual needs that people 582 00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:19,233 have to help them become the best that they can be. 583 00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:23,133 And do you feel like you deserve to go to prison? 584 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,333 Um, well, for the crimes, no. 585 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,800 But I think God had me where he wanted me to be, 586 00:23:28,866 --> 00:23:31,166 to become the person I'm supposed to be and to shed 587 00:23:31,233 --> 00:23:35,600 myself of the people and the places and things that had got 588 00:23:35,666 --> 00:23:38,466 me into this kind of like a self-destructive cycle 589 00:23:38,533 --> 00:23:42,000 of trying to prove my worth to everybody and trying to have 590 00:23:42,066 --> 00:23:42,933 to tweet every day as a DA, 591 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,833 oh, I did this great thing, I did this. 592 00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:47,566 That whole lifestyle was really kind of phony. 593 00:23:47,633 --> 00:23:49,700 Um, and I really found that the people that I was most 594 00:23:49,766 --> 00:23:53,133 real with were the guys I was in prison with. 595 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,900 Um, and so I think my tribe now is those people 596 00:23:55,966 --> 00:23:58,200 and the people who are really the underdogs 597 00:23:58,266 --> 00:24:00,366 and the people that no one else wants to help. 598 00:24:00,433 --> 00:24:03,133 Um, I really find my real passion in that now 599 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,900 and just trying to talk to those folks. 600 00:24:04,966 --> 00:24:08,800 Most former prisoners find out pretty quickly that a lot of 601 00:24:08,866 --> 00:24:13,333 people see incarceration as disqualification. 602 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,300 Some returning citizens find a way to make lemonade 603 00:24:17,366 --> 00:24:21,100 outta lemon, realizing that the roads they've traveled, 604 00:24:21,166 --> 00:24:25,600 the isolation, the shame, maybe even the harm they've 605 00:24:25,666 --> 00:24:29,700 witnessed, suffered, and sometimes even perpetrated, 606 00:24:29,766 --> 00:24:33,466 maybe that can make them uniquely qualified 607 00:24:33,533 --> 00:24:35,866 to be of service now. 608 00:24:36,866 --> 00:24:40,033 With like-minded people of goodwill, 609 00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:43,800 Returning Citizens are best qualified to persuade others 610 00:24:43,866 --> 00:24:47,700 from going down those same roads of anger and despair, 611 00:24:48,533 --> 00:24:53,533 or to help folks make headway when they leave prison and 612 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,066 decide to find another way. 613 00:25:35,333 --> 00:25:38,766 Returning Citizens is made possible by... 614 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,266 The United Way, fostering the success of those who as they 615 00:26:14,333 --> 00:26:18,166 return to our neighborhoods, remain a largely untapped 616 00:26:18,233 --> 00:26:21,133 resource, the formerly incarcerated. 617 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:25,266 Waterman II Fund of the Philadelphia Foundation 618 00:26:25,333 --> 00:26:27,733 at the recommendation of David Haas, 619 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,266 the Independence Foundation.