WEBVTT 00:01.533 --> 00:03.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% FUNDING: The Better Angels Society is proud to support 00:03.166 --> 00:04.266 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% this presentation of 00:04.266 --> 00:06.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% "The American Buffalo: A Story of Resilience," 00:06.566 --> 00:09.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% part of the "Ken Burns Public Dialogue Initiative 00:09.400 --> 00:11.066 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% at Georgetown University." 00:12.966 --> 00:15.100 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% DeGIOIA: Hello. My name is Jack DeGioia, 00:15.100 --> 00:17.366 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% President of Georgetown University, 00:17.366 --> 00:20.033 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% and I'm pleased to welcome you to this discussion about 00:20.033 --> 00:21.700 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% "The American Buffalo", 00:21.700 --> 00:24.666 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% a new film directed by Ken Burns. 00:24.666 --> 00:27.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Georgetown has been honored to work with Ken to encourage 00:27.366 --> 00:31.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% open civil dialogue through the exploration of history. 00:31.566 --> 00:32.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% In a few moments, 00:32.666 --> 00:34.533 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Judy Woodruff will lead a conversation with Ken 00:34.533 --> 00:38.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and a group of experts, Rosalyn LaPier, Jason Baldes, 00:38.600 --> 00:40.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and Dan Flores about the history of 00:40.866 --> 00:42.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% this magnificent species, 00:42.766 --> 00:45.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% its importance to North American ecosystems, 00:45.500 --> 00:48.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and its special relationship with Indigenous people 00:48.733 --> 00:51.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% over the last 10,000 plus years. 00:51.900 --> 00:54.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We hope you enjoy this special discussion. 00:56.833 --> 00:58.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% ANNOUNCE: Now here's the moderator for 00:58.666 --> 01:01.233 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% "The American Buffalo: A Story of Resilience" 01:01.233 --> 01:03.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% from the "PBS NewsHour", Judy Woodruff. 01:04.666 --> 01:08.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% WOODRUFF: Hello and welcome to this PBS special program, 01:08.766 --> 01:12.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% "The American Buffalo: A Story of Resilience" 01:12.300 --> 01:16.766 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% to preview Ken Burns' new film on the extraordinary history 01:16.766 --> 01:19.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and legacy of the largest land animal of 01:19.933 --> 01:21.766 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% the western hemisphere. 01:21.766 --> 01:23.133 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Over the next hour, 01:23.133 --> 01:25.833 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% we will take a closer look at the buffalo, 01:25.833 --> 01:27.700 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% also known as bison, 01:27.700 --> 01:31.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who have been on this continent for more than 10,000 years. 01:32.066 --> 01:35.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% How did this magnificent animal contribute to the 01:35.033 --> 01:36.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% creation of this country? 01:36.866 --> 01:40.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% How did their numbers drop from the tens of millions 01:40.400 --> 01:43.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% to fewer than 1,000 in less than a century, 01:43.800 --> 01:46.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% edging them close to extinction? 01:46.766 --> 01:49.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And what efforts are being made to preserve and restore the 01:49.733 --> 01:53.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% population in a lasting and integrated way? 01:53.666 --> 01:55.866 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% To have this conversation, 01:55.866 --> 01:59.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I'm delighted to be joined by the renowned filmmaker himself, 01:59.466 --> 02:03.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Ken Burns along with Rosalyn LaPier. 02:03.400 --> 02:06.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% An indigenous writer, and ethnobotanist, 02:06.433 --> 02:09.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and a Professor of History at the University of Illinois 02:09.933 --> 02:11.866 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% at Urbana-Champaign; 02:11.866 --> 02:14.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% by Professor Emeritus of Western History at 02:14.900 --> 02:16.866 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% the University of Montana, 02:16.866 --> 02:19.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Dan Flores who is the author of, 02:19.366 --> 02:21.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% "Wild New World: 02:21.166 --> 02:24.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% The Epic Story of Animals and People in America" 02:24.833 --> 02:27.200 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% and by Jason Baldes, 02:27.200 --> 02:29.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Tribal Buffalo Program Manager for the 02:29.933 --> 02:34.233 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% National Wildlife Federation's Tribal Partnerships Program. 02:34.733 --> 02:36.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Welcome to you all! 02:36.866 --> 02:40.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Let's begin with a look at a clip from this 4-hour film, 02:40.933 --> 02:42.900 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% "The American Buffalo," 02:42.900 --> 02:46.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it's an excerpt which lays out the extraordinary ecological 02:46.433 --> 02:49.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% impact of the animal as well as their close 02:49.400 --> 02:52.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% co-evolution alongside Native Americans. 02:53.766 --> 02:58.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% RINELLA: If you see one out grazing, it looks so, "slow." 02:58.166 --> 03:00.733 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% It's like a parked car sitting there. 03:00.733 --> 03:03.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% But they can clear six-foot fences. 03:03.533 --> 03:05.700 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% They can jump, 03:05.700 --> 03:08.066 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% a horizontal jump, of seven feet. 03:09.633 --> 03:10.966 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% They can hit a speed, 03:10.966 --> 03:13.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% hit the speed of 35 miles an hour. 03:13.766 --> 03:15.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And you're talking about something that can get going 03:15.433 --> 03:18.033 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% that speed that's 1,800 pounds. 03:18.033 --> 03:21.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It's like a souped-up hotrod of an animal hiding 03:21.300 --> 03:23.600 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% in a minivan shell. 03:25.700 --> 03:27.066 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% NARRATOR: Fully grown, 03:27.066 --> 03:30.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% an American buffalo can weigh more than a ton; 03:30.300 --> 03:33.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% stand taller than six feet at the shoulder; 03:33.566 --> 03:36.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and stretch more than ten feet long, 03:36.366 --> 03:38.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% not including the tail. 03:39.566 --> 03:40.866 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Huge as they are, 03:40.866 --> 03:42.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% they are small compared to some of the 03:42.833 --> 03:46.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% prehistoric animals that once roamed the continent: 03:46.600 --> 03:50.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% woolly mammoths, giant ground sloths and camels, 03:50.366 --> 03:52.900 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and other species of bison, 03:52.900 --> 03:57.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% one of which had horns that 03:52.900 --> 03:57.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% sp  03:52.900 --> 03:57.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% anned 9 feet from tip to tip. 03:59.533 --> 04:02.166 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% After humans arrived in North America more 04:02.166 --> 04:05.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% than 20,000 years ago, all of the biggest animals, 04:05.800 --> 04:09.000 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% along with nearly 50 other species, 04:09.000 --> 04:12.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% went extinct on the continent, from either hunting, 04:12.300 --> 04:15.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or changing climate, or a combination of the two. 04:17.166 --> 04:18.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% In their place, 04:18.766 --> 04:22.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% the modern buffalo evolved and multiplied, 04:22.333 --> 04:25.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% particularly on the 04:22.333 --> 04:25.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% gr  04:22.333 --> 04:25.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% asslands of the Great Plains. 04:26.566 --> 04:30.066 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% FLORES: Bison and humans, in, in a real sense, 04:30.066 --> 04:33.700 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% co-evolved alongside one another over the last 04:33.700 --> 04:35.866 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% 10,000 years, or so. 04:35.866 --> 04:39.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Sometimes the animals would ebb and flow. 04:39.100 --> 04:42.000 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% But they always rebounded. 04:42.700 --> 04:45.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And, so, there was this wonderful kind of dynamic 04:45.866 --> 04:50.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% equilibrium that lasted for more than 10,000 years. 04:51.333 --> 04:54.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% LaPIER: They have always lived with humans. 04:54.600 --> 04:57.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% They've always been hunted by humans; 04:57.166 --> 04:59.133 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% they've always had predators, 05:00.833 --> 05:03.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% so their entire sort of evolution as, 05:03.900 --> 05:06.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as an animal species has been 05:06.366 --> 05:09.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% as an animal that has been, um, hunted. 05:10.233 --> 05:12.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% PUNKE: And their primary defense mechanism is to, 05:12.933 --> 05:14.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to run away. 05:14.366 --> 05:17.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And they have that skill at a very young age. 05:18.766 --> 05:22.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% A newborn buffalo calf tries to stand, for the first time, 05:22.666 --> 05:25.966 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% at the age of two minutes. 05:25.966 --> 05:27.833 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And, at seven minutes, 05:27.833 --> 05:30.400 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% they're able to run with the herd. 05:33.466 --> 05:34.866 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% NARRATOR Over the centuries, 05:34.866 --> 05:37.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% their grazing habits on the wide expanses of 05:37.433 --> 05:41.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the Great Plains proved crucial to its ecology... 05:41.800 --> 05:44.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% The types of grasses that flourished there, 05:44.266 --> 05:47.833 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and the other species that thrived alongside the buffalo. 05:49.233 --> 05:52.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Even when they stopped and sometimes dug through 05:52.033 --> 05:55.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the grass with their horns, and then rolled in the dust, 05:55.733 --> 05:58.066 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% creating "buffalo wallows", 05:58.066 --> 06:01.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the bison's habits helped support other forms of 06:01.033 --> 06:03.400 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% life on the Plains. 06:04.233 --> 06:06.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% LaPIER: It's not just one wallow; 06:06.266 --> 06:09.466 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% we're talking about millions of bison, 06:09.466 --> 06:12.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% which means millions of wallows. 06:12.566 --> 06:15.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DANT: those wallows could do a couple of things. 06:15.200 --> 06:17.766 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% At its most simple and basic, it's a "dirt bath." 06:19.000 --> 06:21.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% But then, it also has an ecosystem function. 06:21.933 --> 06:23.300 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Water retention. 06:23.300 --> 06:26.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% If it rained, these become shallow little ponds and pools. 06:26.800 --> 06:30.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And that, in turn, affected the landscape, as well. 06:32.066 --> 06:34.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% LaPIER: Because it's also a disturbed area, 06:34.766 --> 06:39.200 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% plants that flourish in disturbed areas will also, 06:39.200 --> 06:42.100 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% then, grow around a wallow. 06:42.800 --> 06:46.933 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% So, they became these really great areas, not only for, um, 06:46.933 --> 06:48.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% wildlife to use, 06:48.400 --> 06:52.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but also for humans to use because of the plants 06:52.533 --> 06:54.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% that were there. 06:54.233 --> 06:57.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% WHITE: When the buffalo are here, the land is good. 06:57.366 --> 07:01.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When the land is good, the buffalo are healthy. 07:01.033 --> 07:04.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We have lived here for 600 generations. 07:04.600 --> 07:08.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We have been here, conservatively, 12,000 years. 07:08.233 --> 07:11.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% So, if you think about that 12,000 years, 07:11.066 --> 07:13.866 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% imagine that on a timeline. 07:13.866 --> 07:16.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And then, take that 12,000 years and wrap that timeline 07:16.933 --> 07:19.466 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% around a 24-hour clock. 07:19.466 --> 07:24.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% What that means is that Columbus arrived at about 07:24.366 --> 07:31.000 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% 11:28 PM, and Lewis and Clark, 07:31.000 --> 07:33.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at about fifteen minutes before midnight. 07:34.700 --> 07:38.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% WOODRUFF: Just a remarkable clip from the film. 07:38.433 --> 07:41.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And Roslyn, I want to begin with you. 07:41.233 --> 07:42.466 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% And we should add, 07:42.466 --> 07:45.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% you're a member of the Blackfeet Metis Tribe. 07:45.833 --> 07:48.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And what we heard you speaking about and the others 07:48.200 --> 07:51.766 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% in the film is how the buffalo evolved with humans. 07:52.133 --> 07:53.833 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Even at the same time, 07:53.833 --> 07:56.600 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% it was being hunted by humans. 07:56.600 --> 07:58.833 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Explain how that could be. 07:59.900 --> 08:02.266 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% LaPIER: Well, one of the things we know about bison, 08:02.266 --> 08:04.766 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% of course, the modern bison that we know today, 08:04.766 --> 08:07.333 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% they evolved here in North America, 08:07.333 --> 08:11.300 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and they evolved at the same time that Indigenous people had 08:11.300 --> 08:14.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% already been here for probably 10,000 years. 08:14.133 --> 08:19.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And so Indigenous people and the bison sort of lived 08:19.666 --> 08:23.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% together in the same places, in the same areas. 08:23.366 --> 08:27.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And because the Indigenous People hunted bison, 08:27.900 --> 08:32.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% bison just grew along a lot of different Indigenous Nations 08:32.300 --> 08:36.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and became the sort of, animal of choice, 08:36.933 --> 08:41.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% both for not just hunting to eat, 08:42.633 --> 08:46.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but also to use for a lot of the materials that they used 08:46.600 --> 08:49.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% for daily life, but then also gave them a lot of meaning. 08:49.933 --> 08:54.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% You know, bison became very much enmeshed in 08:54.766 --> 08:57.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Indigenous Religion and religious practice, 08:57.700 --> 08:59.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and that was because of this long, you know, 08:59.933 --> 09:03.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% thousands of years a relationship that was developed 09:03.466 --> 09:08.633 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% across the Great Plains during this first sort of 10,000 years 09:09.433 --> 09:11.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% of their history. 09:11.600 --> 09:13.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% WOODRUFF: And Dan Flores, 09:13.033 --> 09:15.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, it is one of the, I think, most remarkable 09:15.633 --> 09:18.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% things that most people are not aware of. 09:18.200 --> 09:20.533 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And that is, as we just heard from Roslyn, 09:20.533 --> 09:24.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% how long this relationship goes back, 09:24.266 --> 09:26.866 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% how long the buffalo were here. 09:26.866 --> 09:29.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's almost impossible to comprehend. 09:29.933 --> 09:34.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Give us a sense of-of how that length of time 09:34.066 --> 09:38.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% allowed this co-existence to take place. 09:39.500 --> 09:44.000 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% FLORES: Well, if you think of those 10,000 years that Roslyn 09:44.000 --> 09:49.233 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% just referred to as an inhabitation of North America, 09:50.033 --> 09:52.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that compares roughly to that of the United States. 09:52.600 --> 09:56.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% United States has been here a little more than 300 years. 09:56.466 --> 10:01.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% So, we're talking about a depth of time that's 10:01.800 --> 10:06.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% 30 or 40 times longer than just the existence 10:06.733 --> 10:09.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the country that we all think of as being 10:09.633 --> 10:12.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% fairly old now and being three centuries old. 10:12.600 --> 10:16.400 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So, it's a very old relationship. 10:16.400 --> 10:21.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Bison and humans not only co-evolved, 10:21.800 --> 10:25.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but bison really pretty much adapted to the presence of 10:25.600 --> 10:29.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% humans during their emergence 8,000, 9,000 10:29.933 --> 10:33.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% 10,000 years ago and to their modern form. 10:33.100 --> 10:35.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% I mean, they became smaller, 10:35.166 --> 10:40.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they had a quicker reproductive turnover and 10:40.566 --> 10:44.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% they and their habits and their range, 10:44.866 --> 10:50.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they were really kind of regulated to some degree 10:50.066 --> 10:51.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% by native people. 10:51.700 --> 10:53.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It's the oldest and this is an easy way to think of it. 10:53.766 --> 10:56.900 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% It's the oldest economic life way, 10:56.900 --> 11:00.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% this relationship between humans and buffalo, 11:00.266 --> 11:03.133 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and particularly hunting buffalo on the part of humans. 11:03.133 --> 11:06.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It's the oldest economic life way in North America. 11:06.000 --> 11:08.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We don't have anything else that compares to an 8,000 or 11:08.966 --> 11:12.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% 9,000 or 10,000-year way of life for humans 11:12.600 --> 11:13.900 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% on this continent. 11:13.900 --> 11:16.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% WOODRUFF: And Jason, we don't we don't think of this as a, 11:16.700 --> 11:19.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% an economic relationship typically. 11:19.300 --> 11:22.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% But that's it's very much what it was. 11:22.466 --> 11:26.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% BALDES: That's exactly right for the Eastern Shoshone people. 11:26.733 --> 11:31.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% We were even went so far as distinguishing ourselves by the 11:31.166 --> 11:34.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% foods we ate and the Eastern band, the Shoshone, 11:34.466 --> 11:36.466 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% we called ourselves the "Guchundeka", 11:36.466 --> 11:38.700 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% the "Buffalo Eaters". 11:38.700 --> 11:41.533 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And even though this animal's been missing or was 11:41.533 --> 11:45.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% missing for 131 years, it's still in our DNA. 11:45.800 --> 11:48.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% It's in our songs. It's in our ceremonies. 11:48.466 --> 11:51.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% It's actually critical in our ceremonies. 11:51.633 --> 11:54.366 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% And nutritionally, you know, 11:54.366 --> 11:58.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that that animal's critical, as critical today as it was for 11:58.566 --> 12:00.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% our people then. 12:00.133 --> 12:04.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So, it's intricately intertwined into who we are. 12:04.300 --> 12:06.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% WOODRUFF: And Ken, what drove you to this? 12:06.200 --> 12:07.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% What compelled you to want to look at 12:07.766 --> 12:09.733 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% the American buffalo? 12:09.733 --> 12:12.766 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% BURNS: Well, I think, Judy, the big thing is, 12:12.766 --> 12:16.500 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% is that it's so intertwined with the history of us in all 12:16.500 --> 12:18.933 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% of the intimacy of that word and all the bigness of 12:18.933 --> 12:20.733 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% the United States. 12:20.733 --> 12:22.666 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And it's humbling. 12:22.666 --> 12:25.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% We-we have to sort of take a step back and understand that 12:25.766 --> 12:28.300 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% we're studying not just the story of this animal, 12:28.300 --> 12:31.666 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% which is a fascinating and ultimately positive story 12:31.666 --> 12:33.966 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% parable of de-extinction. 12:33.966 --> 12:38.166 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% But it's a tragedy going in as we watch their numbers go from 12:38.166 --> 12:42.333 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% 30, 40, 50 million on the Great Plains 12:42.866 --> 12:45.433 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% to fewer than not just 1,000, 12:45.433 --> 12:49.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% maybe even fewer than 100, wild and free and, 12:49.933 --> 12:53.533 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and that story is a story of Native people, 12:53.533 --> 12:57.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% all the different nations, Indigenous tribes that were 12:57.700 --> 13:00.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% interrelating with the buffalo in the Great Plains. 13:00.666 --> 13:03.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So, I think in some ways our delay in getting to it 13:03.666 --> 13:06.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% permitted us to become a little bit smarter, 13:06.966 --> 13:09.200 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% but also a little bit more, 13:09.200 --> 13:11.500 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% gather a little bit more humility, 13:11.500 --> 13:14.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and begin to understand this story differently from 13:14.333 --> 13:15.700 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% the way we tell it. 13:15.700 --> 13:18.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I mean, the buffalo is, you know, from, 13:18.600 --> 13:19.733 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% as we like to say, 13:19.733 --> 13:23.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% from the tail to the snort used by so many of the 13:23.100 --> 13:25.033 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% different tribes completely. 13:25.033 --> 13:28.900 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% It's just an amazing story that touches on nearly every aspect 13:28.900 --> 13:31.166 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% of our complicated history. 13:31.166 --> 13:34.366 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% WOODRUFF: And that's what comes through so clearly in this film. 13:34.366 --> 13:38.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Roslyn, why do you think the Native American part of this 13:38.066 --> 13:42.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% story has not really come out before now? 13:43.400 --> 13:45.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% LaPIER: That's a great question, Judy. 13:45.066 --> 13:48.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% And I think it's there's a lot of different answers to that. 13:48.400 --> 13:52.800 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I think that one, I think that we're just learning so much 13:52.800 --> 13:56.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% more now today from Indigenous peoples themselves about 13:56.133 --> 13:58.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% sort of the traditional ecological knowledge and 13:58.900 --> 14:02.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% indigenous knowledge that Indigenous people hold 14:02.000 --> 14:05.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and then kind of integrating that with what we 14:05.100 --> 14:08.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% learn from kind of Western science and academia. 14:08.400 --> 14:13.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think that that helps tell a much more holistic story 14:13.500 --> 14:15.333 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% about the bison. 14:15.333 --> 14:18.466 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And I think that now of course today there's a lot 14:18.466 --> 14:20.066 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% more folks like myself, 14:20.066 --> 14:21.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% you know, who are people who are raised with 14:21.800 --> 14:25.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% indigenous knowledge but now also have academic training. 14:25.200 --> 14:29.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And so, we are able to blend those worlds and be able to 14:29.900 --> 14:32.466 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% tell kind of this larger story of the bison 14:32.466 --> 14:35.666 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% here in native North America. 14:35.666 --> 14:38.566 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And I think one of the things that is an important point to 14:38.566 --> 14:42.566 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% make at the beginning is, oftentimes Indigenous people, 14:42.566 --> 14:45.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because we had this long history with bison, 14:45.766 --> 14:47.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% we really understood bison. 14:47.766 --> 14:50.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, through again, thousands of years of 14:50.400 --> 14:54.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% observation and-and living with bison, 14:54.766 --> 14:59.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that kind of that common misnomer stereotype that we 14:59.300 --> 15:01.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% often hear that you know, 15:01.033 --> 15:03.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Indigenous people like followed the bison. 15:03.500 --> 15:06.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Indigenous people probably rarely followed the bison. 15:06.066 --> 15:08.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% They created landscapes, 15:08.033 --> 15:12.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% they managed the land in ways that bison would come 15:12.566 --> 15:15.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% to them, and that they knew where to go, 15:15.400 --> 15:17.500 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% to go look for bison. 15:17.500 --> 15:20.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% WOODRUFF: And Dan, what's your sense of why it's taken 15:20.066 --> 15:22.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% so long to get this critical part of this 15:22.666 --> 15:24.400 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% story to the forefront, 15:24.400 --> 15:27.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to be told so that people can understand it in 15:27.766 --> 15:29.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% a way we've really never understood it before? 15:31.300 --> 15:33.666 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% FLORES: Well, I would say, Judy, 15:34.400 --> 15:38.566 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% that one of the issues has been that it's only been 15:38.566 --> 15:43.133 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% in the last century, really since the 1920s. 15:43.133 --> 15:47.866 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% So, 100 years ago that we understood that Native people 15:47.866 --> 15:51.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% had been here for many, many thousands of years. 15:51.566 --> 15:53.833 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% I mean, in the early 1920s, 15:53.833 --> 15:56.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% even people that anthropologist at the 15:56.833 --> 16:00.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Smithsonian were arguing that Indigenous people had only 16:00.900 --> 16:03.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% been in North America for a couple of thousand years before 16:03.466 --> 16:05.500 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Europeans arrived. 16:05.500 --> 16:11.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% But we discovered in-in Folsom, New Mexico, a site, 16:12.033 --> 16:14.666 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% an archeological site that was, 16:15.533 --> 16:20.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% came to light as a result of an African American cowboy 16:20.100 --> 16:23.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% locating the bones of very large, 16:23.900 --> 16:26.866 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% clearly extinct versions of bison. 16:26.866 --> 16:29.000 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And a few years later, 16:29.000 --> 16:32.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% archeologists realizing that there were actually 16:32.133 --> 16:36.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% flint tools buried in the vertebrate of those 16:36.800 --> 16:39.533 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% animals of-of those remains, 16:39.533 --> 16:43.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that North America had a really old history. 16:43.866 --> 16:47.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We had sort of thought even 100 years ago that 16:47.500 --> 16:51.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% North America really started when Europeans arrived. 16:51.400 --> 16:54.133 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And suddenly now, only 100 years ago, 16:54.133 --> 16:58.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% we began to realize that this history stretches back into the 16:58.166 --> 17:00.533 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% dimness of time. 17:00.533 --> 17:03.500 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And so over that past hundred years, 17:03.500 --> 17:07.800 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% we've gradually been putting together this story... 17:07.800 --> 17:09.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So, we're all kind of excited, I think, 17:09.866 --> 17:14.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to be able to bring this deep-time story to a modern 17:14.066 --> 17:18.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% audience with all the nuances that we've been able to add to 17:18.233 --> 17:21.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% it here over the last 20 or so years as a result of 17:21.933 --> 17:25.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% breakthroughs in scientific knowledge and finally beginning 17:25.700 --> 17:28.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to talk to Native people and asking them what 17:28.066 --> 17:29.933 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% they know themselves. 17:29.933 --> 17:33.866 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% WOODRUFF: And Jason, when you think about the Europeans 17:33.866 --> 17:39.133 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% coming on the scene and things changing so quickly, 17:39.133 --> 17:41.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% it was almost breathtaking how quickly things turned, 17:41.933 --> 17:43.600 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% wasn't it? 17:44.033 --> 17:45.333 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% BALDES: It really was. 17:45.333 --> 17:49.533 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% And we have to consider the eras of federal Indian law and 17:49.533 --> 17:53.533 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% policy that were really were to dismantle the ways of 17:53.533 --> 17:56.033 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% life of Native people. 17:56.033 --> 18:00.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% These six or seven eras, you know, 18:00.066 --> 18:03.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% are the reservation era of termination relocation. 18:03.600 --> 18:05.766 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% You know, during the civil rights era, 18:05.766 --> 18:08.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% we kind of have self-determination really, 18:08.700 --> 18:10.966 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% where we have a, you know, 18:10.966 --> 18:15.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the upholding of-of sovereignty and self-determination. 18:15.466 --> 18:18.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So, you know, those eras were pretty preventative 18:18.833 --> 18:23.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of-of tribes exercising things like buffalo restoration. 18:23.600 --> 18:28.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% So, we're in a new era now and, you know, 18:28.100 --> 18:30.100 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% the recognition of this history, 18:30.100 --> 18:34.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but also the federal government's role in that and 18:34.966 --> 18:37.866 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% the trust responsibility that the government has now to 18:37.866 --> 18:41.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% assist our tribes in restoring buffalo. 18:41.133 --> 18:44.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And, you know, we now have 83 member tribes of the 18:44.100 --> 18:46.400 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Intertribal Buffalo Council. 18:46.400 --> 18:49.833 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% There's folks like the National Wildlife Federation, you know, 18:49.833 --> 18:53.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% upholding and assisting in restoration. 18:53.033 --> 18:56.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% There's cultural, academic, nutritional, 18:56.166 --> 18:59.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% ecological reasons for bringing the species back. 19:00.566 --> 19:03.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And so, I think we're in a new era in buffalo 19:03.633 --> 19:05.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% are foundational to that. 19:06.133 --> 19:09.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% WOODRUFF: And Ken, going back to your really 19:09.100 --> 19:10.666 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% the first part of this film, 19:10.666 --> 19:13.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the first hour, where you so clearly establish 19:13.733 --> 19:17.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% what happened when the Europeans came on the scene, 19:17.666 --> 19:22.866 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% it-it happened so quickly over the span of time and completely 19:22.866 --> 19:26.866 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% changed the-the presence of the buffalo on 19:26.866 --> 19:28.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% the American continent. 19:28.666 --> 19:31.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% BURNS: So, Dan talked about the economic relationship, 19:31.333 --> 19:34.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% the oldest one, the new economies of hides. 19:34.400 --> 19:39.033 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And then later bones are going to conspire in a kind of 19:39.033 --> 19:41.800 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% God-awful way. 19:41.800 --> 19:43.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% There's no other way to put it. 19:43.400 --> 19:47.366 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% This unbelievable tragedy of the slaughter of the buffalo 19:47.366 --> 19:50.233 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% all up and down the plains from the southern 19:50.233 --> 19:52.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% to the central to the northern plains. 19:52.900 --> 19:56.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And it is a story that we kind of have to be reminded 19:56.700 --> 19:57.833 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% we have to look at. 19:57.833 --> 19:59.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We have to own the story. 19:59.300 --> 20:02.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And we also have to begin to see that our relationship 20:02.966 --> 20:05.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% to things is not the only relationship to things. 20:06.166 --> 20:09.633 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And when I say our I mean the European and-and-and 20:09.633 --> 20:11.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% White American version of things. 20:11.666 --> 20:14.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% WOODRUFF: And when, as you say, when it comes to the buffalo, 20:14.733 --> 20:17.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the destruction that we're talking about occurred over 20:17.900 --> 20:20.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% just a matter of a few decades. 20:20.400 --> 20:23.900 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And that's what we are confronted with in this film. 20:23.900 --> 20:27.666 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% In this next clip from the film, where we see the extent of 20:27.666 --> 20:31.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% what is called the "final" slaughter of buffalo and 20:31.066 --> 20:33.366 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% the economic impetus behind it. 20:33.366 --> 20:35.400 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% It was 1881, 20:35.400 --> 20:38.800 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% a year when the market surged for buffalo hide 20:38.800 --> 20:40.900 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and for expanding railroads, 20:40.900 --> 20:44.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% as hunters and their big guns kept moving west, 20:44.233 --> 20:47.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% across the great plains and into the Rocky Mountains. 20:49.300 --> 20:50.700 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% NARRATOR: That same year, 20:50.700 --> 20:53.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% the Northern Pacific reached Miles City 20:53.200 --> 20:55.566 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% in Montana Territory. 20:55.566 --> 20:59.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Soon, 5,000 hide hunters and skinners were spilling 20:59.533 --> 21:02.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% over the plains, from the Yellowstone River to the 21:02.666 --> 21:04.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Upper Missouri, 21:04.133 --> 21:06.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% where they set up what one army lieutenant called 21:06.800 --> 21:09.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% "a cordon of camps... 21:09.300 --> 21:12.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Blocking the great ranges and rendering it impossible 21:12.766 --> 21:15.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for scarcely a single bison to escape." 21:17.633 --> 21:21.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% The killing commenced, all over again. 21:24.333 --> 21:26.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Meanwhile, in New York, 21:26.133 --> 21:29.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% 31-year-old George Bird Grinnell had become editor 21:29.566 --> 21:31.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of "Forest and Stream", 21:31.600 --> 21:35.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% a publication for hunters and fishermen that he was prodding 21:35.400 --> 21:38.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to take on issues of 21:35.400 --> 21:38.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% co  21:35.400 --> 21:38.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% nservation with more urgency. 21:40.166 --> 21:43.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% During the hide-hunting on the southern Plains, 21:43.800 --> 21:47.966 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% he had advocated for policies he called "just" and "honest" 21:47.966 --> 21:50.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% toward Native Americans that would, he wrote, 21:50.866 --> 21:54.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% "conscientiously aid in the increase of the buffalo, 21:54.900 --> 21:58.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% instead of furthering its 21:54.900 --> 21:58.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% fo  21:54.900 --> 21:58.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% olish and reckless slaughter." 21:59.966 --> 22:02.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Now, Grinnell turned his attention to what was 22:02.533 --> 22:05.000 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% unfolding in Montana. 22:06.600 --> 22:08.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% GRINNELL: Up to within a few years ago, 22:08.733 --> 22:10.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the valley of the Yellowstone River has been 22:10.900 --> 22:13.733 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% a magnificent hunting ground... 22:13.733 --> 22:17.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% The progress of the Northern Pacific Railroad, however, 22:17.166 --> 22:20.233 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% has changed all this. 22:20.900 --> 22:24.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% The buffalo will disappear unless steps are taken to 22:24.566 --> 22:26.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% protect it there. 22:28.333 --> 22:33.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% PUNKE: This is the era of the myth of inexhaustibility. 22:34.666 --> 22:37.933 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% The belief that the West is so vast, 22:37.933 --> 22:40.966 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% that the resources are so vast, 22:40.966 --> 22:42.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% that they can never be exhausted. 22:44.466 --> 22:48.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But it was so much in front of them what was happening 22:48.066 --> 22:50.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that I think they began to figure it out. 22:51.233 --> 22:54.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It became more and more difficult to find buffalo. 22:54.366 --> 22:56.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% And there were ominous signs. 22:56.800 --> 22:58.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Weird things began to happen. 22:58.633 --> 23:00.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like, they would find herds that were comprised 23:00.866 --> 23:04.133 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% entirely of calves. 23:04.133 --> 23:07.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But there also was a capacity to deny and to believe 23:07.866 --> 23:11.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that they had just gone over the next ridge line. 23:11.166 --> 23:14.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Gone into the next territory. 23:14.700 --> 23:17.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And, so, all of that kind of mixes together. 23:18.100 --> 23:21.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% NARRATOR In Miles City, in the fall of 1883, 23:21.433 --> 23:25.333 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% the hide hunters prepared for another winter on the Plains, 23:25.333 --> 23:28.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% believing there must still be plenty of buffalo between the 23:28.700 --> 23:31.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Yellowstone and Missouri rivers. 23:32.633 --> 23:34.700 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% They came back in the spring, 23:34.700 --> 23:37.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% with almost nothing to show for their efforts. 23:38.700 --> 23:40.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% RINELLA: There are people in Miles City who had been 23:40.900 --> 23:44.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% hide hunters and they're simply lolling around waiting 23:44.233 --> 23:46.266 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% for the return of the herds. 23:46.266 --> 23:48.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% They still thought there has to be some, somewhere. 23:48.900 --> 23:50.400 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% When they had finished, 23:50.400 --> 23:52.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% they didn't know they'd finished. 23:52.733 --> 23:55.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% They felt that, well, it can't be over. 23:55.133 --> 23:56.833 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% And it was over. 23:57.733 --> 24:01.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% NARRATOR: In 1884, the total number of hides brought to the 24:01.666 --> 24:05.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Northern Pacific fit in a single boxcar. 24:08.666 --> 24:12.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% MAYER: One by one, we runners put up our buffalo rifles, 24:13.600 --> 24:16.533 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% sold them, gave them away, 24:16.533 --> 24:20.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% or kept them for other hunting, and left the ranges. 24:21.366 --> 24:25.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And there settled over them a vast quiet... 24:26.033 --> 24:28.833 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% The buffalo was gone. 24:28.833 --> 24:30.500 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% Frank Mayer. 24:32.000 --> 24:38.733 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% FLORES: There is no, no story anywhere in world history that 24:38.733 --> 24:44.100 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% involves as large a destruction of wild animals as happened in 24:44.100 --> 24:47.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% North America in the Western United States, in particular, 24:47.400 --> 24:51.533 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% between 1800 and about 1890. 24:51.533 --> 24:54.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, it is the largest destruction of animal life 24:54.566 --> 24:57.366 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% discoverable in modern world history. 24:58.733 --> 25:02.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% LaPIER: Why Americans are so destructive; 25:02.266 --> 25:04.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I think is an important question to ask. 25:06.066 --> 25:10.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Why is that part of our story? Why is that part of our history? 25:11.733 --> 25:13.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% WOODRUFF: And to you, Roslyn, 25:13.066 --> 25:15.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that is such a sobering statement, America. 25:16.500 --> 25:20.000 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And how destructive have Americans been? 25:20.000 --> 25:21.833 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Do you have an answer to that? 25:22.500 --> 25:26.066 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% LaPIER: You know, I'm not sure if I do have an answer to that, 25:26.066 --> 25:30.133 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% although I do want to sort of make a clarification in that 25:30.133 --> 25:33.300 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% this this is an American story. 25:33.300 --> 25:37.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% I think we often when we think about the past and we talk 25:37.133 --> 25:40.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% about the heritage of the United States of America, 25:40.000 --> 25:44.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% we often talk about Europeans and European heritage. 25:44.133 --> 25:46.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And by the time we're talking about the 19th century, 25:46.933 --> 25:49.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% we really are talking about the United States of America 25:49.600 --> 25:50.966 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% and Americans. 25:50.966 --> 25:53.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And it really is Americans who are complicit 25:53.900 --> 25:57.700 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% in this destruction, again, not just of bison, 25:57.700 --> 26:02.200 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% but of a lot of the different animal species and 26:02.200 --> 26:05.900 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% even plant species on the northern Great Plains or 26:05.900 --> 26:07.500 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% on the Great Plains. 26:07.500 --> 26:10.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So I think it's one of the things that other people have 26:10.466 --> 26:15.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% brought up of we-we see what had happened in the past 26:15.600 --> 26:17.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and that maybe this is a time for us to really 26:17.600 --> 26:21.733 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% rethink ourselves as a country, as the United States of America, 26:22.433 --> 26:27.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% our own complicit part of this tale of destruction, 26:28.800 --> 26:35.000 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and perhaps how then today we can restore and-and 26:35.000 --> 26:41.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% redevelop and revitalize the relationships between bison and 26:41.900 --> 26:44.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Indigenous people, but also bison and Americans. 26:45.666 --> 26:47.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% WOODRUFF: I do want to come back to this question that, 26:47.633 --> 26:50.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Dan, that that Roslyn raises in the film, 26:50.400 --> 26:54.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that is why Americans are so destructive. 26:54.033 --> 26:56.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% She was referring to that particular period 26:56.833 --> 26:58.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% of the 19th century, 26:58.633 --> 27:01.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but others have-have broadened it out to the 27:01.666 --> 27:03.033 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% scope of American life. 27:03.033 --> 27:04.400 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% How do you see it? 27:04.666 --> 27:06.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% FLORES: I see it as a, 27:06.300 --> 27:09.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the bison story is part of a bigger context, 27:10.633 --> 27:13.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I suppose, Native people saw themselves as 27:13.900 --> 27:16.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% being kin to other animals. 27:17.066 --> 27:19.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I mean, they, in effect, 27:19.033 --> 27:22.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% presaged the Charles Darwin idea from 27:22.900 --> 27:25.966 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% the late 1850s. 27:25.966 --> 27:31.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And that of course became the substance of the whole ecology, 27:31.233 --> 27:34.333 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% the science of ecology and the ecology movement in 27:34.333 --> 27:36.700 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% the 20th and 21st centuries. 27:36.700 --> 27:43.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But Europeans old worlder's brought with them notions of-of 27:43.900 --> 27:45.966 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% human exceptionalism, 27:45.966 --> 27:49.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% a religious tradition that humans were different from 27:49.433 --> 27:51.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% every other life form on the planet. 27:51.500 --> 27:54.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We were the only ones made in the image of a deity, 27:54.233 --> 27:55.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% the only ones with souls. 27:55.966 --> 28:00.933 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Other animals lacked those kinds of connections. 28:00.933 --> 28:02.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And we also, of course, 28:02.666 --> 28:07.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% brought with us the idea of the Adam Smith 28:07.366 --> 28:10.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% global market economy and John Stuart Mills 28:10.966 --> 28:12.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% ideas of freedom. 28:12.633 --> 28:17.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so those all combined into a kind of approach to 28:17.633 --> 28:19.766 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% North America where we decide we're going 28:19.766 --> 28:24.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to emulate the old world in its destruction of its 28:24.066 --> 28:25.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% own charismatic animals. 28:25.966 --> 28:30.000 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And we're going to do the same in North America in the name of 28:30.000 --> 28:35.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% civilization and in the name of making the United States 28:35.033 --> 28:38.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% a rich and leading world power. 28:38.133 --> 28:41.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we do so essentially by turning North America 28:41.533 --> 28:45.500 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% into a congress of market resources, 28:45.500 --> 28:50.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and that includes beavers, fur seals, sea otters, 28:50.800 --> 28:54.300 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% passenger pigeons, great orcs. 28:54.300 --> 28:56.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I mean, the list goes on and on and on. 28:56.633 --> 28:59.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And of course, it includes bison as well. 28:59.200 --> 29:03.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I mean, to me, one of the striking sort of summations of 29:03.300 --> 29:06.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% this is the passenger pigeon story. 29:07.300 --> 29:09.500 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Those birds had been in North America 29:09.500 --> 29:12.266 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% for 15 million years. 29:12.266 --> 29:17.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% They could not survive 400 years of our presence here. 29:18.100 --> 29:23.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And bison, which had been here for at least 150,000 and 29:24.200 --> 29:30.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% perhaps 300,000 years were in the same situation between 1800 29:30.166 --> 29:32.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and basically the 1890s. 29:32.633 --> 29:37.200 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We managed to shrink them from at least 30 million animals 29:37.566 --> 29:43.033 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% down to, as Ken mentioned, just a few score that were left, 29:43.900 --> 29:47.166 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% so few that conservationists worried whether there was 29:47.166 --> 29:50.533 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% enough genetic variability to really be able to save 29:50.533 --> 29:52.533 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% them for the future. 29:52.533 --> 29:54.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So, it's a, it's a story that I think we've 29:54.933 --> 29:56.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% never really confronted. 29:57.466 --> 30:01.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% WOODRUFF: And Jason, how do you come at this question of why 30:01.733 --> 30:04.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% this destructive force on the part of Americans? 30:06.166 --> 30:09.266 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% BALDES: I think it's a notion of exploitation. 30:09.266 --> 30:11.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% As others have mentioned, 30:11.933 --> 30:15.166 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% this-this country was-was founded. 30:15.166 --> 30:18.966 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% And then what we've done is plow up, pave over, 30:18.966 --> 30:21.300 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% fence in-fence out, you know, 30:21.300 --> 30:23.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% one of the get on airplanes and fly east. 30:23.366 --> 30:25.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And you look down and all you see is-is 30:25.433 --> 30:28.133 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% checkerboard and agriculture. 30:28.133 --> 30:32.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So, the-the idea of exploitation or being able to 30:32.133 --> 30:35.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% extract resources or, you know, provide, 30:36.133 --> 30:39.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you know, put livestock on the ground to-to raise 30:39.300 --> 30:41.466 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% for your livelihood, 30:41.466 --> 30:45.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% those were kind of foreign notions of land use. 30:45.366 --> 30:49.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And that was forced upon us tribes as our lands were 30:49.233 --> 30:53.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% diminished in those treaties and promises were broken, 30:53.500 --> 30:55.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% we were forced into agriculture, 30:55.733 --> 30:57.066 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% or we would lose our land. 30:57.066 --> 30:59.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And a lot of that included livestock production. 30:59.800 --> 31:04.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And so, challenging some of these land use paradigms and 31:04.633 --> 31:10.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the ideas of exploitation are still a bit foreign as we think 31:10.166 --> 31:14.033 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% about restoring our languages, restoring our culture, 31:14.033 --> 31:17.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% revitalizing our connection to buffalo. 31:17.166 --> 31:20.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It's much more ecological, it's much more holistic, 31:20.266 --> 31:24.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and it kind of gets us back to some semblance of that, that, 31:24.400 --> 31:29.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that wildlife economy or buffalo economy that is more 31:29.366 --> 31:31.866 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% restorative rather than exploitative. 31:32.666 --> 31:36.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And so, I think as we think about including indigenous 31:36.100 --> 31:39.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% perspectives in land use and management, 31:39.266 --> 31:43.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we can draw from that ecological relationship. 31:43.100 --> 31:45.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% You know, when we protected wolves and 31:45.333 --> 31:46.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% bears on the reservation, 31:46.666 --> 31:49.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it was because our elders told us that those wolves 31:49.400 --> 31:52.333 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and bears taught us a lot about how to be good human 31:52.333 --> 31:55.066 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% beings where we get our medicines from, 31:55.066 --> 31:58.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and that they have a right to be here as much as we do. 31:59.866 --> 32:02.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And so, it kind of gets to Dan's point about, you know, 32:02.733 --> 32:07.200 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% we as human beings being part of this ecosystem rather than 32:07.200 --> 32:11.700 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% being above it or the only ones who can dictate it. 32:11.700 --> 32:15.833 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% So, it's-it's much more of an opportunity for us, I think, 32:15.833 --> 32:19.033 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% to engage what we call now traditional ecological 32:19.033 --> 32:23.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% knowledge or Indigenous science because Indigenous people were 32:23.300 --> 32:24.833 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% we're very good scientists, 32:24.833 --> 32:27.733 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% but it was based in a different philosophy, 32:27.733 --> 32:31.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one of interconnectedness and-and reciprocity. 32:31.966 --> 32:35.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So, I think, you know, we need to consider those 32:35.000 --> 32:37.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% types of perspectives more today. 32:37.533 --> 32:40.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% WOODRUFF: And Ken is as someone who's spent your 32:40.100 --> 32:42.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% life telling the American story, 32:42.800 --> 32:46.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% how hard has it been to confront that the 32:46.466 --> 32:50.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% ugly side as well as the-the wonderful side 32:50.266 --> 32:52.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% we all like to celebrate? 32:52.533 --> 32:54.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% BURNS: Well, you know, I think it's been there, Judy, 32:54.666 --> 32:57.600 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% all along in almost all the stories we've tried to tell. 32:57.600 --> 33:02.900 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% Here it is so pronounced because it is us deciding 33:02.900 --> 33:04.500 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% that we're the dominant species, 33:04.500 --> 33:06.333 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% that we don't have to live in harmony, 33:06.333 --> 33:08.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that these animals, particularly the buffalo, 33:08.466 --> 33:11.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% are not our kin, but something else. 33:11.700 --> 33:15.866 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And-and we have an acquisitive and a rapacious sort of 33:15.866 --> 33:19.833 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% attitude towards the continent that we were taming. 33:19.833 --> 33:22.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And even that in itself, 33:22.000 --> 33:25.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% the notion of taming and the fact that this animal is 33:25.100 --> 33:29.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so intricately intertwined with the story of native peoples. 33:29.000 --> 33:32.733 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% You know, we-we think of this story is as in three acts 33:33.100 --> 33:35.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and our film is just the first two acts. 33:35.233 --> 33:37.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The first is the buffalo and their interrelationship and 33:37.966 --> 33:41.000 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% then their destruction and then the saving of it as 33:41.000 --> 33:43.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% a species on the brink of extinction. 33:43.300 --> 33:46.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But the next act is really where it's all going to happen. 33:47.000 --> 33:51.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And Roz and Dan and Jason are on the front lines of 33:51.733 --> 33:54.633 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that story and are going to be able to take it. 33:54.633 --> 33:57.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The next hurdle to get to the next space where it's 33:57.400 --> 33:58.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% okay to save it. 33:58.666 --> 34:01.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But what are we going to do after it's saved? 34:01.166 --> 34:05.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% What kind of ecologies and ecosystems are we going to 34:05.500 --> 34:09.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% practice and create in order to make sure that at 34:09.233 --> 34:12.500 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% least part of this American Serengeti is 34:12.500 --> 34:15.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% returned to what it once was or a semblance of 34:15.966 --> 34:19.533 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% what it once was, not just with the megafauna, 34:19.533 --> 34:22.366 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% but with all of the flora that Roz is talking about, 34:22.366 --> 34:25.933 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% all of those plants that grow in the disturbed areas. 34:25.933 --> 34:29.100 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% What a wonderful gift that would be if we could sort of 34:29.100 --> 34:33.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% arrest our own tendencies and try to see things or 34:33.933 --> 34:37.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% try to yield and-and permit our-our brothers 34:37.733 --> 34:41.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and sisters here to tell us now how we might do it 34:41.400 --> 34:44.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% a little bit better than the disastrous way 34:44.200 --> 34:45.900 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% we've done heretofore. 34:46.366 --> 34:48.600 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% WOODRUFF: Well, that is a perfect point at which to turn 34:48.600 --> 34:52.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% to our third and our final clip from the film. 34:52.700 --> 34:55.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Although they came perilously close to extinction, 34:55.566 --> 34:57.766 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% the buffalo survived. 34:57.766 --> 34:59.900 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% As we see in this next clip, 34:59.900 --> 35:04.000 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% by the early 1900's there was a growing national recognition 35:04.000 --> 35:06.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% of the need to preserve the buffalo... 35:07.066 --> 35:10.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Even with an unclear understanding of how to do that 35:10.666 --> 35:14.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and a recognition of the buffalo's special role 35:14.233 --> 35:15.733 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% in American identity. 35:19.933 --> 35:23.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% NARRATOR: In 1913, the United States came out with a 35:23.133 --> 35:25.166 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% new design for the nickel, 35:25.433 --> 35:28.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% done by the sculptor James Earle Fraser. 35:29.266 --> 35:31.200 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Fraser said he wanted a coin 35:31.200 --> 35:34.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% "that could not be mistaken for any other country's coin." 35:35.833 --> 35:38.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% On one side, the new nickel showed the profile 35:38.633 --> 35:40.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% of an American Indian. 35:41.433 --> 35:43.800 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% On the other was an American buffalo, 35:44.200 --> 35:47.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% modeled after a bison Fraser saw in New York City's 35:47.466 --> 35:48.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Central Park Menagerie. 35:50.766 --> 35:53.166 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% RINELLA: We know its name, it was called "Black Diamond." 35:53.166 --> 35:55.366 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And it lived in a cage. 35:55.366 --> 35:57.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% And he uses it as his model. 35:58.266 --> 36:01.400 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% And it was sold to a butcher. 36:01.400 --> 36:03.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And the model for the buffalo head nickel was 36:03.800 --> 36:07.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% processed and parted out, and sold as meat, 36:08.666 --> 36:11.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in the Meatpacking District in Manhattan. 36:12.833 --> 36:15.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And it opens up this idea of just how conflicted 36:15.900 --> 36:17.466 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% the symbol is. 36:19.000 --> 36:24.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We look at it and we see a symbol of wilderness and 36:24.333 --> 36:27.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% a symbol of the wanton destruction of wilderness. 36:29.033 --> 36:32.300 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% You look at that old nickel, there's a buffalo. 36:33.000 --> 36:36.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% At one time, they almost wiped them to extinction. 36:36.866 --> 36:39.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Why did the European put that buffalo on that nickel? 36:39.900 --> 36:43.366 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Was it just a curiosity or was it something that kind of meant 36:43.366 --> 36:45.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% something to them in an odd way. 36:46.500 --> 36:51.866 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So, in my confusion, and my need to understand is: 36:55.733 --> 37:00.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% do you have to destroy the things you love? 37:03.900 --> 37:08.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% NARRATOR: By 1933, the 37:03.900 --> 37:08.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Am  37:03.900 --> 37:08.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% erican Bison Society reported 37:08.033 --> 37:14.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that 4,404 buffalo existed in 121 herds in 37:15.166 --> 37:18.300 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% 41 different states. 37:18.300 --> 37:21.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Half of them were grazing in now nine 37:21.033 --> 37:22.866 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% government-protected herds. 37:24.200 --> 37:26.333 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% Compared to the millions of buffalo that 37:26.333 --> 37:29.733 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% had once covered the Plains, those were tiny numbers; 37:30.233 --> 37:33.733 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% but enough, and in enough different places, 37:33.733 --> 37:37.866 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that the Bison Society began making plans to disband, 37:37.866 --> 37:41.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% declaring that the American buffalo was finally 37:41.233 --> 37:43.166 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% safe from extinction. 37:45.900 --> 37:48.766 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% O'BRIEN: This Society was successful, 37:48.766 --> 37:52.200 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% but their understanding of the problem was 37:52.200 --> 37:54.300 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% really short-sighted. 37:54.300 --> 37:57.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% They didn't know about ecosystems. 37:57.766 --> 37:59.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% They thought, if you've got a buffalo, 37:59.533 --> 38:01.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% you've saved him. 38:01.133 --> 38:02.733 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% That's not it. 38:02.733 --> 38:05.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% You've got to save their habitat. 38:07.566 --> 38:10.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% NARRATOR: That same spring of 1933, 38:10.600 --> 38:15.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% 75 calves were born on the 38:10.600 --> 38:15.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Na  38:10.600 --> 38:15.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% tional Bison Range in Montana. 38:16.833 --> 38:21.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% One of them, a little bull, had blue eyes and white hair, 38:22.066 --> 38:24.166 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% a genetic rarity. 38:24.166 --> 38:30.633 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% PABLO: A white buffalo is so sacred and so full of hope, 38:31.566 --> 38:34.600 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and goodwill for the tribes. 38:34.600 --> 38:37.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Just a huge blessing. 38:37.633 --> 38:41.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% It was a tremendous gift from Creator. 38:44.533 --> 38:46.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% NARRATOR: The staff at the Bison Range called the 38:46.766 --> 38:49.500 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% little bull "Whitey" at first, 38:49.500 --> 38:51.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and its presence turned the preserve into a 38:51.666 --> 38:55.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% tourist attraction for a while. 38:55.100 --> 38:57.433 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% But to the Salish, Kootenai, 38:57.433 --> 39:00.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and Pend d'Oreilles on the Flathead reservation, 39:00.500 --> 39:03.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and to virtually all other Native tribes, 39:03.300 --> 39:07.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a white buffalo was 39:03.300 --> 39:07.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% mo  39:03.300 --> 39:07.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% re than a statistical oddity. 39:07.400 --> 39:10.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It had special spiritual power and sacred meaning. 39:11.733 --> 39:14.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% It was considered "big medicine" 39:14.633 --> 39:17.366 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and that became his name. 39:17.600 --> 39:19.666 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% PABLO: I was three years old. 39:19.666 --> 39:23.300 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% My grandpa and my dad took me to the bison range and 39:23.300 --> 39:24.633 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% wanted me to touch him. 39:24.633 --> 39:26.500 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% He was so old; 39:26.500 --> 39:31.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% he stood inside this fence, and he didn't move. 39:31.066 --> 39:33.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I touched him and I thought he would be soft, 39:33.800 --> 39:36.500 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% his head, like, my teddy bear. 39:36.500 --> 39:38.833 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% And it was bristly. 39:39.066 --> 39:41.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And that was my first impression, 39:41.033 --> 39:44.333 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% was he's big and I love his eyes. 39:44.333 --> 39:45.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% And he's bristly. 39:50.766 --> 39:52.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% WOODRUFF: And so, at some point, 39:52.433 --> 39:55.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the tide turned in this country. 39:55.100 --> 39:57.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Roz, I want to ask you, 39:57.666 --> 40:02.300 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% what is your understanding of when things began to turn, 40:02.533 --> 40:07.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% when-when there was a wider understanding 40:07.133 --> 40:10.866 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that the Americans had gone too far in what they'd 40:10.866 --> 40:12.066 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% done to the buffalo? 40:13.766 --> 40:16.233 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% LaPIER: Yeah, I mean, it really was this early kind of 40:16.233 --> 40:19.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% 20th century and late 19th century that we saw 40:19.433 --> 40:22.233 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% this kind of change over in America that 40:22.233 --> 40:24.066 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% started really in the east, 40:24.066 --> 40:27.066 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% as has been, is when people see the film. 40:27.066 --> 40:28.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% It's mentioned in the film. 40:28.666 --> 40:31.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% You know, there's this story of people from the East Coast who 40:31.433 --> 40:34.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% are beginning to look towards the West, 40:34.633 --> 40:38.366 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% began to see it in a different with a different viewpoint, 40:38.366 --> 40:43.033 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% even nostalgically of what is what they've lost and thinking 40:43.033 --> 40:46.800 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% about how they can address that. 40:46.800 --> 40:49.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% At the same time period, 40:49.033 --> 40:52.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Indigenous people themselves are transitioning, right? 40:52.400 --> 40:55.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% They're transitioning from living, 40:55.400 --> 40:59.166 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% having that lifestyle of living with bison for those thousands 40:59.166 --> 41:02.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% of years to now living mostly on reservations, 41:03.200 --> 41:06.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but also in other communities and no longer being in this 41:06.966 --> 41:10.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% world where bison is very central to their lifeways and 41:10.666 --> 41:13.100 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% their religion again and their religious practice. 41:13.100 --> 41:16.633 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% One of the things that I learned from looking at the 41:16.633 --> 41:19.166 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% stories of my grandparents and looking at 41:19.166 --> 41:21.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% the stories of their parents, 41:21.966 --> 41:25.400 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% is that what Indigenous people wanted to share with 41:25.400 --> 41:29.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% these same folks like George Bird Grinnell and his, 41:29.366 --> 41:32.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and his "Forest and Stream" magazine, 41:32.600 --> 41:35.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the folks that he published there was that 41:35.700 --> 41:39.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Indigenous people wanted to tell their story even then in 41:39.066 --> 41:40.533 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% the early 20th century. 41:40.533 --> 41:43.866 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And what Indigenous people were sharing was this deep, 41:43.866 --> 41:47.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% long relationship with the natural world, 41:47.033 --> 41:50.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with that connection through religion and religious practice 41:50.766 --> 41:54.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and how they thought about a lot of different parts 41:54.533 --> 41:55.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% of the natural world. 41:55.633 --> 41:58.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% But including that story with Bison, 41:58.166 --> 42:01.100 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% as Dan has already mentioned, you know, 42:01.100 --> 42:03.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% one of the things that Indigenous people thought about 42:03.066 --> 42:07.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% bison differently is that they were kin and that was 42:07.166 --> 42:09.500 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% a literal relationship. 42:09.500 --> 42:11.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% WOODRUFF: Jason, what about that? 42:11.833 --> 42:14.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I mean, how do you pick up on this, 42:14.400 --> 42:17.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% this complicated and partly ugly, 42:17.200 --> 42:20.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% certainly beautiful over thousands of years, 42:20.766 --> 42:24.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but in more, more recent times, not a pretty story at all. 42:25.400 --> 42:28.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% How do you how do you pick up the story from here? 42:29.100 --> 42:32.700 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% BALDES: Well, we have to consider that there's 350,000 42:32.700 --> 42:35.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% bison now, but they're-they're essentially in the commercial 42:35.400 --> 42:38.900 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% meat market, so they're ranched animals. 42:38.900 --> 42:43.800 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% The Department of Interior manages some conservation herds. 42:44.200 --> 42:46.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And then there's the tribes, you know, 42:46.333 --> 42:49.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% working to restore buffalo back to our communities through 42:49.033 --> 42:52.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% organizations like the Intertribal Buffalo Council. 42:52.433 --> 42:57.600 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% But there is a wide spectrum of-of restoration efforts 42:57.600 --> 43:01.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% across Indian Country and across private lands and 43:01.433 --> 43:03.133 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% across public lands. 43:03.133 --> 43:05.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And really the, you know, 43:05.000 --> 43:07.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% the buffalo is still ecologically extinct. 43:07.200 --> 43:11.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It doesn't exist in large numbers on large habitats. 43:11.100 --> 43:13.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And from a conservation perspective, you know, 43:13.966 --> 43:18.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that's a very important effort to get animals restored 43:18.433 --> 43:21.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% from their ecological keystone role on the landscape, 43:21.666 --> 43:27.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% but also ensure that you know, we're thinking about the-the 43:27.400 --> 43:31.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% important genetics of places like Yellowstone. 43:31.066 --> 43:35.200 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% The, were the-the remnants of those once vast herds 43:35.200 --> 43:38.200 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% where those genetics exist and ensuring that we can 43:38.200 --> 43:42.366 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% get those animals out for the genetic heterogeneity, 43:42.366 --> 43:45.633 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% improving our overall herd health and the bison species 43:45.633 --> 43:52.366 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% itself are restored in a way that allows them to exist for 43:52.366 --> 43:56.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% us the way the one above intended. 43:56.033 --> 44:00.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And that relationship that we as people have 44:00.333 --> 44:02.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% with that animal, restoring that, 44:02.366 --> 44:06.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% ensuring that our young people understand the complex history, 44:06.600 --> 44:10.333 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but also our role now as caretakers, that-that, 44:10.333 --> 44:12.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% you know, buffalo took care of us, 44:12.266 --> 44:14.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% now it's our turn to take care of them. 44:14.400 --> 44:19.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% And in that, we have to restore land that's land acquisition. 44:19.333 --> 44:23.433 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% And we also have to change how many of our lands get utilized. 44:23.433 --> 44:26.200 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Many of our lands on our on our reservation have been 44:26.200 --> 44:29.133 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% prioritized for-for cattle production, 44:29.133 --> 44:32.766 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% despite them being on an Indian reservation so 44:32.766 --> 44:35.466 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% challenging the status quo and-and 44:35.466 --> 44:36.966 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% thinking about a new future. 44:36.966 --> 44:39.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% You know, the majority of our young people are 44:39.100 --> 44:41.633 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% not farming and ranching and they're not going 44:41.633 --> 44:44.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to go into that any more than our grandma's and grandpa's 44:44.666 --> 44:47.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% wanted to 100 some years ago. 44:47.466 --> 44:50.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So how do we create a better future for our people 44:50.733 --> 44:52.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and for our communities? 44:52.300 --> 44:55.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% You know, restoring that relationship 44:55.266 --> 44:57.833 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% to buffalo is one way, 44:57.833 --> 45:01.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and that is foundational to who we are. 45:01.366 --> 45:04.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% It's in our songs, it's in our ceremonies. 45:04.166 --> 45:06.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% For the very first time this year, 45:06.133 --> 45:08.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% we've been able to harvest our own animals for 45:08.733 --> 45:10.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% our annual Sundance's. 45:10.800 --> 45:16.066 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Is that's a very critical step in restoring that relationship 45:16.066 --> 45:19.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and ensuring that that that meat, 45:19.366 --> 45:23.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% which is the most nutritious, the highest in protein, 45:23.466 --> 45:26.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% minerals, and vitamins and-and lowest in 45:26.066 --> 45:27.366 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% fat and cholesterol, 45:27.366 --> 45:29.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that that is essentially a way for us to 45:29.633 --> 45:32.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% help do away with diabetes, heart disease. 45:33.233 --> 45:36.333 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So, as we restore them to the land which they obviously 45:36.333 --> 45:38.433 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% heal as a keystone species, 45:38.433 --> 45:40.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% they in turn will begin to heal us 45:40.433 --> 45:42.566 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% as-as we restore that relationship. 45:43.666 --> 45:48.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% WOODRUFF: The circle of life is and, you know, 45:48.033 --> 45:51.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% as you've so eloquently put it, Dan, 45:51.933 --> 45:55.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I want to come back to you why does it matter that 45:55.700 --> 45:58.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% we care about what happens to the buffalo? 46:00.066 --> 46:05.366 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% FLORES: I've long thought that when buffalo were finally gone, 46:06.033 --> 46:10.533 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% and this would certainly have been true for almost all 46:10.933 --> 46:14.866 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Native people who had been engaged with buffalo for-for 46:14.866 --> 46:17.200 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% so many centuries. 46:17.200 --> 46:19.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That and certainly true, I think, 46:19.133 --> 46:21.266 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% for the America and the emerging 46:21.266 --> 46:24.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% American conservation community. 46:24.166 --> 46:29.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It was as if some titanic sound that reached 46:30.000 --> 46:34.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to the heavens had stopped just at the moment 46:34.900 --> 46:38.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% that we turned to listen to it. 46:38.066 --> 46:42.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And it was a shock, I think, to many people... 46:42.966 --> 46:46.466 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Obviously, Native people were-were the ones who bore 46:46.466 --> 46:52.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the brunt of the effect of losing that titanic sound. 46:52.066 --> 46:55.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But many other people felt it as well. 46:55.966 --> 46:57.366 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I think that's why we ended up with an 46:57.366 --> 47:00.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% American Bison Society 47:00.300 --> 47:04.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that attempted to restore buffalo or at least preserve 47:04.966 --> 47:08.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% them as an emblem of what we had lost. 47:08.566 --> 47:13.233 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% But that's essentially about as far as their thinking ever got. 47:13.933 --> 47:15.566 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% I mean, to me, 47:15.566 --> 47:18.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one of the things that was happening in America 47:18.800 --> 47:21.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% at this time is that we were still tending to model 47:21.666 --> 47:26.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% ourselves after the old world after Great Britain and France 47:26.900 --> 47:31.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and Germany and all those countries had lost 47:31.566 --> 47:35.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% all their big, wild, charismatic animals. 47:35.133 --> 47:37.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And even though Teddy Roosevelt had 47:37.600 --> 47:41.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% implemented this great new Public Lands System 47:41.100 --> 47:43.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that allowed the United States to do something 47:43.233 --> 47:47.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% completely different, to actually preserve some of 47:47.166 --> 47:51.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% our really big creature's wolves, bears, bison, 47:51.866 --> 47:54.266 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% if we had allowed it, elk. 47:54.266 --> 47:56.433 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Bison certainly represented, 47:56.433 --> 47:59.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% as I think Frazier's nickel indicated, 47:59.966 --> 48:03.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that it was the creature that much of the world associated 48:03.733 --> 48:05.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% with the United States. 48:05.300 --> 48:08.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That's why the bison has become our national mammal here 48:08.566 --> 48:10.366 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% in the last decade. 48:10.366 --> 48:15.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% But we didn't want to allow it to be a wild creature. 48:16.366 --> 48:21.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that kind of becomes the-the story that takes 48:21.233 --> 48:23.300 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% us up to the present. 48:23.600 --> 48:28.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% WOODRUFF: Ken Burns, there's so much to think about here. 48:28.066 --> 48:32.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% What-what ultimately do you want your, 48:32.766 --> 48:34.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% you want Americans who are watching this, 48:34.766 --> 48:39.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% anybody watching this film, to know about the buffalo... 48:39.800 --> 48:43.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Its relationship to this country and how we should think 48:43.066 --> 48:45.533 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% about it going into the future? 48:46.000 --> 48:50.000 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% BURNS: Well, let me just riff off Dan for a second and 48:50.000 --> 48:53.533 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% just go back to that 1913 nickel, right. 48:54.400 --> 48:58.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% On both sides of that coin that we are now beginning to 48:58.433 --> 49:01.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% fetishize the Native American and the buffalo. 49:01.966 --> 49:03.733 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% We're now missing them. 49:03.733 --> 49:05.000 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% There's something lost. 49:05.000 --> 49:08.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% It's a, it's-it's obscene in a way. 49:08.033 --> 49:11.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We've spent the last century doing everything we can 49:11.933 --> 49:13.833 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% to eliminate both. 49:13.833 --> 49:17.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And our buffalo policy and our Native American policy 49:17.300 --> 49:21.733 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% are intertwined and they're designed to reduce the 49:21.733 --> 49:26.066 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% buffalo to nothing and to reduce Native Americans 49:26.066 --> 49:29.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to reservations and change entirely their way of life. 49:30.466 --> 49:32.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Somewhere along the line, 49:32.066 --> 49:35.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there were a few people that were beginning to-to 49:35.700 --> 49:37.933 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% realize they needed to make a journey. 49:37.933 --> 49:40.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, you can go back to Theodore Roosevelt, 49:40.366 --> 49:43.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who comes down to us is the greatest conservation president. 49:43.200 --> 49:44.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% He was not there before. 49:44.933 --> 49:48.566 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% He did not have any respect for native peoples whatsoever. 49:48.566 --> 49:53.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% He assumed that the buffalo's extermination would heed the 49:53.400 --> 49:57.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% ability to assimilate Native Americans into our culture. 49:57.166 --> 49:58.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% And he had to learn. 49:58.633 --> 50:01.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so, I think in the arc of the life of Theodore Roosevelt, 50:01.966 --> 50:05.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% it's not just he arrives on the scene fully evolved 50:05.400 --> 50:08.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that this is a journey that we have to take. 50:08.166 --> 50:10.333 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% WOODRUFF: Roz, I mean, 50:10.333 --> 50:15.200 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% where do you see this going with-with Native Americans 50:15.200 --> 50:18.400 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% in relationship to the buffalo and in relationship 50:18.400 --> 50:19.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% to this country? 50:20.433 --> 50:22.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% LaPIER: Yeah, I mean, it's-it's I think it's, 50:22.366 --> 50:26.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is a great time to really, again, look at our past, right? 50:27.400 --> 50:30.800 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% But I think that in looking at past actions 50:30.800 --> 50:33.700 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% of American citizens, we also then, 50:33.700 --> 50:37.200 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% to look further back, and look at the Indigenous people 50:37.200 --> 50:38.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% that were here... 50:38.766 --> 50:41.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Look at their landscape management practices. 50:41.433 --> 50:44.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Look at the relationships that they had with the world around 50:44.433 --> 50:46.300 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% them and the natural world. 50:46.300 --> 50:48.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% The first thing that needs to happen is we need to have 50:48.666 --> 50:49.800 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% the land right. 50:49.800 --> 50:52.133 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% We need to have healthy land, 50:52.133 --> 50:55.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% a large landscapes, good habitat. 50:55.166 --> 50:57.800 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% And for at least for the bison, 50:57.800 --> 51:00.466 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% a lot of different prairie grasses that they eat. 51:00.466 --> 51:04.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And so, when we think about bison and Dan's really 51:04.433 --> 51:06.466 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% great story about, you know, 51:06.466 --> 51:09.166 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% let's ask the bison what they want. 51:09.166 --> 51:10.733 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% And yes, they want to come back, 51:10.733 --> 51:12.666 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% but not as cows, not as cattle. 51:12.666 --> 51:14.700 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% They do want to be free. 51:14.700 --> 51:19.366 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% But for that to occur, for them to be truly animals 51:19.366 --> 51:22.333 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% that get returned to the American landscape, 51:22.333 --> 51:27.333 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% they need large areas for them to be able to do that. 51:27.800 --> 51:32.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% We still don't have that, as has been mentioned by Jason. 51:32.000 --> 51:35.300 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% You know, a lot of the practices we have today is that 51:35.300 --> 51:40.966 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% bison are on these very small parcels of land where 51:40.966 --> 51:44.866 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% they are allowed to be free but still very small. 51:44.866 --> 51:47.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so, we need to start thinking bigger when we, 51:47.766 --> 51:49.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% when we think about this. 51:49.400 --> 51:53.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think that we are at a point in our history in America 51:53.433 --> 51:56.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where there are a lot of people who are interested 51:56.566 --> 51:57.766 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% in all of these things, 51:57.766 --> 52:01.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% interested in looking at Indigenous knowledge as a tool, 52:01.700 --> 52:03.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% as a management tool, 52:03.800 --> 52:08.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and looking at our past as America and really thinking 52:08.266 --> 52:12.333 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% about it seriously and thinking about how to address 52:12.333 --> 52:15.166 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% some of those things that have happened in 52:15.166 --> 52:18.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the past and then that kind of hope for the future 52:18.133 --> 52:21.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% only because we understand these things so much better. 52:21.700 --> 52:23.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% WOODRUFF: And finally, to you, Jason, 52:23.366 --> 52:25.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% is that a future that Roslyn describes, 52:25.666 --> 52:27.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% that that is likely? 52:27.633 --> 52:30.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% That's-that's more than possible, but it's probable? 52:31.833 --> 52:35.133 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% BALDES: I certainly am optimistic that it is 52:35.133 --> 52:38.933 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% organizations like the Intertribal Buffalo Council, 52:38.933 --> 52:42.766 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% you know, now with 83 member tribes across the country. 52:42.766 --> 52:46.266 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% ITBC is a 30-year-old organization that's restored 52:46.266 --> 52:50.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% 25,000 buffalo to 65 herds in 20 states. 52:51.366 --> 52:53.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% There, that efforts going to continue. 52:53.666 --> 52:58.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Our main goal there at ITBC is to restore buffalo to 52:58.166 --> 53:01.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Indian Country for the cultural and spiritual purposes, 53:01.600 --> 53:04.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and that's going to continue to increase. 53:04.066 --> 53:07.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We want to get buffalo into our school lunch programs. 53:07.500 --> 53:11.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We want to provide it for our community and elder programs. 53:11.066 --> 53:14.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then there's-there's the conservation effort. 53:14.600 --> 53:17.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% You know, there's of organizations like the 53:17.066 --> 53:20.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% National Wildlife Federation, you know, really strategically 53:20.700 --> 53:23.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% working to support the sovereignty and 53:23.400 --> 53:26.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% self-determination of tribes across the country. 53:26.700 --> 53:30.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Other conservation NGOs are doing the same. 53:30.366 --> 53:34.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We have federal directives now at the at the national level 53:34.233 --> 53:38.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% working to support tribal buffalo restoration. 53:38.733 --> 53:41.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We need to, you know, enhance that and continue to 53:41.500 --> 53:43.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% build from there. 53:43.266 --> 53:46.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% You know, and I think what we're doing in terms of 53:46.633 --> 53:50.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% restoring the buffalo to various landscapes across 53:50.133 --> 53:54.266 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Indian Country can really permeate what opportunities we 53:54.266 --> 53:56.533 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% can create on public lands. 53:56.533 --> 53:59.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And there's a lot of discussion about that, 53:59.100 --> 54:01.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% especially out west, where, you know, 54:01.933 --> 54:06.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% many of our lands have been prioritized for-for 54:06.166 --> 54:10.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% economic reasons and exploitative reasons. 54:10.066 --> 54:12.933 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% And as we kind of, you know, 54:12.933 --> 54:16.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% rehash what it is we want to see by bringing 54:16.033 --> 54:19.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% science in and technology and thinking more 54:19.066 --> 54:23.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ecologically that there's elements that we can, 54:23.833 --> 54:28.333 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% we can bring together and really work to create a better 54:28.333 --> 54:30.400 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% future for our young people. 54:30.400 --> 54:34.466 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And I think, you know, whether whatever our background is, 54:34.466 --> 54:37.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% what-what tribes, nations, communities, we come from, 54:37.800 --> 54:39.566 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% that that's a common thread. 54:39.566 --> 54:43.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We want to create a better world for our children. 54:43.233 --> 54:47.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And so, I think that many of us do that with buffalo, 54:47.133 --> 54:48.966 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% and we can, 54:48.966 --> 54:53.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% we can use that as a model for Americans to have 54:53.933 --> 54:57.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% a-a relationship, some reciprocity, 54:57.533 --> 55:01.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% some understanding of our Indigenous science so that we 55:01.933 --> 55:05.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% do create and leave a better world here for-for 55:05.333 --> 55:06.700 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% the future generations. 55:07.566 --> 55:09.000 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% WOODRUFF: And on that uplifting note, 55:09.000 --> 55:11.733 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% let me thank you, all four, for such a wonderful, 55:11.733 --> 55:13.233 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% such a rich discussion. 55:13.233 --> 55:14.800 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Thank you so much, 55:14.800 --> 55:18.433 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to Rosalyn LaPier to Dan Flores, to Jason Baldes, 55:19.133 --> 55:21.866 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and, of course, to our filmmaker Ken Burns. 55:22.333 --> 55:24.233 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% Thank you, thank you so much. 55:24.233 --> 55:26.166 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% FLORES: Thank you, Judy. BURNS: Thank you, Judy. 55:26.366 --> 55:28.233 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% WOODRUFF: And thanks to all of you for watching. 55:28.600 --> 55:30.933 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% And do remember to tune into Ken's film, 55:30.933 --> 55:32.566 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% "The American Buffalo", 55:32.566 --> 55:35.166 align:left position:50% line:5% size:40% premiering on your PBS station 55:35.166 --> 55:38.666 align:left position:42.5% line:5% size:47.5% and on the PBS app, on October 16th. 55:39.566 --> 55:41.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm Judy Woodruff, thank you for joining us. 55:43.466 --> 56:23.900 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% (music plays through credits) 56:23.900 --> 56:25.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% FUNDING: The Better Angels Society is proud to support 56:25.766 --> 56:27.100 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% this presentation of 56:27.100 --> 56:29.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% "The American Buffalo: A Story of Resilience" 56:29.933 --> 56:32.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% part of the "Ken Burns Public Dialogue Initiative at 56:32.466 --> 56:34.100 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Georgetown University."