WEBVTT 00:01.000 --> 00:02.566 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Funding for To The Contrary provided by: 01:51.433 --> 01:53.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% This week on To The Contrary: 01:53.700 --> 01:57.933 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% This is not a problem that consumers created, 01:57.933 --> 02:02.766 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% but I do think the consumer has power that 02:03.266 --> 02:05.866 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% perhaps many are unaware of. 02:05.866 --> 02:06.700 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% What is accessible to 02:07.033 --> 02:10.500 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% you might be a, quote unquote, fast fashion item 02:10.500 --> 02:13.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% but it doesn't have to be fast fashion in use 02:13.400 --> 02:14.800 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% if you take really good care of it. 02:34.866 --> 02:36.933 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% Hello, I'm Bonnie Erbé. 02:36.933 --> 02:39.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Welcome to To The Contrary, a discussion of news 02:39.733 --> 02:42.766 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% and social trends from varied perspectives. 02:43.200 --> 02:47.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Fast fashion has revolutionized the clothing industry 02:47.633 --> 02:51.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by making trendy, lo cost garments widely available. 02:51.833 --> 02:54.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But it's also sparked growing controversy. 02:54.833 --> 02:58.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Critics argue the industry's emphasis on speed and volume 02:58.833 --> 03:01.533 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% contributes to environmental harm 03:01.533 --> 03:04.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and exploitative labor practices. 03:04.866 --> 03:08.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% As consumer awareness rises, the debate over fast 03:08.733 --> 03:11.900 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% fashion's true cost is gaining momentum 03:12.133 --> 03:15.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% on both social and political fronts. 03:15.366 --> 03:19.100 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% With us to discuss this is Allyson Chiu, 03:19.100 --> 03:22.200 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% climate solutions reporter for The Washington Post, 03:22.466 --> 03:27.166 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and Paula Carbone, a professo at the University of California. 03:27.166 --> 03:29.133 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Welcome, ladies. 03:29.133 --> 03:33.200 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So, Professor Carbone why don't you start and explain 03:33.200 --> 03:36.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% in a little more depth to people in the audience, 03:36.333 --> 03:38.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% what fast fashion is? 03:38.833 --> 03:42.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Fast fashion is usually defined 03:42.666 --> 03:45.966 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% as being able to create 03:46.700 --> 03:49.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% a lot of new fashions 03:49.266 --> 03:52.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% in a very, very short amount of time 03:53.066 --> 03:56.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that are poorly made, 03:56.200 --> 04:01.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% meant to be used once or twice and then discarded. 04:01.833 --> 04:04.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And there has been a little bit 04:04.333 --> 04:08.300 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% of a push to standardize the definition 04:08.833 --> 04:11.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and talk about, well, this many 04:11.933 --> 04:15.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% new items in a day or a week. 04:15.933 --> 04:17.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% But right now 04:17.200 --> 04:20.966 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that's the general working definition, I believe. 04:20.966 --> 04:22.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Allyson, your thoughts? 04:22.766 --> 04:24.033 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% What does it mean? 04:24.033 --> 04:27.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% How is it different from prior generations of fashion? 04:27.766 --> 04:30.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Yeah, I think, Professor Carbone really touched on the 04:30.400 --> 04:33.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the main point there, which is when it comes to fast fashion, 04:33.700 --> 04:37.066 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% the first thing that comes to mind is always volume and 04:37.700 --> 04:40.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the amount of styles that are coming out. 04:40.800 --> 04:44.000 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And so I think one thin that experts have always told me 04:44.000 --> 04:47.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% is that, you know, we're seeing really high 04:47.600 --> 04:50.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% turnover, a lot of, you know, more trendy pieces, 04:51.900 --> 04:53.600 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and all of that really, 04:53.600 --> 04:55.800 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% you know, just contributes to sort of this incredible 04:55.800 --> 04:58.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% volume of clothing that we see these days. 04:58.633 --> 04:59.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And what has happened 04:59.966 --> 05:04.133 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to clothing that doesn't sell if everything's being made in 05:04.433 --> 05:05.366 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% great volumes 05:05.700 --> 05:08.433 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% and some of them are going to turn out to be clunkers 05:08.800 --> 05:10.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as far as the market is concerned, 05:10.900 --> 05:14.000 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% what do the companies do with these clothes? 05:14.000 --> 05:17.266 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I imagine that they're discarded 05:17.766 --> 05:20.766 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% and generally in the trash. 05:20.766 --> 05:25.866 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% Some might be collected to recycle, but 05:26.600 --> 05:29.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% it's been found that a lot of the fashions 05:29.700 --> 05:34.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that are collected for recycling actually are never recycled. 05:34.400 --> 05:38.500 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% So this just adds to the problem. 05:38.733 --> 05:42.266 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% If you're making hundreds or thousands of garments 05:42.266 --> 05:45.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% at a time, and one line just doesn't sell 05:45.666 --> 05:49.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% very well, what—does it end up in garbage cans? 05:49.300 --> 05:51.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Does it end up in the ocean? 05:51.700 --> 05:52.933 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Does it end up— 05:52.933 --> 05:53.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Where does it end up? 05:53.933 --> 05:55.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Where do people put— 05:55.000 --> 05:56.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% put these things that are of no use? 05:56.866 --> 06:00.900 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% When there's so much volum that is not just, you know, left 06:00.900 --> 06:03.133 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% in stores bu people are buying these things. 06:03.133 --> 06:06.800 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% So, you know, we often see, we have some— 06:07.033 --> 06:10.866 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% some consumer research dat showing that people are buying 06:10.866 --> 06:14.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% new clothes far more frequently than they probably need. 06:14.433 --> 06:16.000 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And so when that happens, you know, 06:16.000 --> 06:19.133 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% you get the annual spring cleaning 06:20.333 --> 06:20.966 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% purge. 06:21.400 --> 06:24.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And oftentimes people will bring that to, 06:24.300 --> 06:27.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% you know, donation places. 06:27.066 --> 06:30.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% And, you know, we know that 06:30.866 --> 06:33.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% some of those clothes do end up back 06:33.700 --> 06:36.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in circulation, whether that's, you know, through 06:36.433 --> 06:41.300 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% like stores run by donation facilities. 06:41.300 --> 06:44.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But a lot of times people are donating clothing 06:44.266 --> 06:46.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that is either stained or ripped 06:46.500 --> 06:50.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% or just really poor quality, that is not eligible for resale. 06:51.266 --> 06:54.466 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And as Professor Carbone just mentioned, 06:54.466 --> 06:57.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% you know, those items are then— 06:58.733 --> 07:00.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the fate of those have become a little bit more murky, 07:00.633 --> 07:03.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% basically, so it can go in several directions. 07:03.700 --> 07:07.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You can sometimes find clothing ends up in the rag trade, 07:07.533 --> 07:08.133 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% which is, 07:08.866 --> 07:12.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you know, sort of a devalue version of what it used to be, 07:12.800 --> 07:16.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% or it potentially gets shipped overseas to other countries. 07:16.733 --> 07:17.266 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% And then 07:17.933 --> 07:20.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% at the end of all of it, maybe a decent chunk of 07:20.400 --> 07:21.400 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% it ends up in the trash. 07:21.400 --> 07:25.033 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% In 2018, the EPA found that landfills 07:25.033 --> 07:28.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% received 11.3 million tons of textiles, 07:28.033 --> 07:31.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% which is more than 7% of its total municipal solid waste. 07:31.466 --> 07:33.466 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% So that's a lot. 07:33.466 --> 07:34.933 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% And oftentimes 07:34.933 --> 07:35.800 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% there's not 07:36.333 --> 07:39.066 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% an exact sort of accountin of what makes up those textiles. 07:39.066 --> 07:43.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But from what we know, again, about the volume of clothing 07:43.233 --> 07:45.833 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that is being produced and purchased, 07:45.833 --> 07:48.266 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that clothing does make u a significant portion of that. 07:48.266 --> 07:51.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Now, is it only being produced in the United States or— 07:51.333 --> 07:54.866 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% I had, I guess, a fantasy of that 07:54.866 --> 07:59.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a lot of this was being produced in Asia and places 07:59.800 --> 08:03.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% where you could get stuff out much more quickly 08:03.666 --> 08:05.000 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% than in the US. 08:05.000 --> 08:09.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think that quite a bit of it is produced 08:09.300 --> 08:12.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% outside of the U.S as well as 08:12.333 --> 08:15.500 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% in the US. Shein 08:16.766 --> 08:19.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% is certainly one of the big actors; 08:19.866 --> 08:23.300 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Uniqlo and Zara, 08:23.300 --> 08:26.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% these are three of the really big actors, 08:26.600 --> 08:30.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% along with countless others who do this. 08:30.600 --> 08:33.600 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And Shein produces 08:34.533 --> 08:37.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% countless new fashions daily. 08:38.266 --> 08:44.233 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% So it's just a huge machine that has many, 08:44.233 --> 08:49.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% many different parts to keep this cycle going. 08:49.200 --> 08:52.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But both of you, isn't saving— 08:52.133 --> 08:55.833 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Aren't the producers of this clothing going to realize 08:55.833 --> 08:56.933 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% after a while, hey, 08:57.200 --> 08:59.933 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% some of these ideas aren' selling so well with the public. 09:00.133 --> 09:03.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Maybe we should wait and try out a line for a week 09:03.000 --> 09:06.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and see how it sells before you make a huge batch. 09:06.266 --> 09:07.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Is anything like that 09:07.400 --> 09:10.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% likely to happen? As you sort of alluded to, 09:11.233 --> 09:14.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the ways that these companies behave are 09:14.833 --> 09:19.033 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% largely attached to what consumers are interested in. 09:19.033 --> 09:22.933 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% So this is really a space where consumers 09:22.933 --> 09:24.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% can really make a difference 09:24.666 --> 09:26.833 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% in term of what they signal to brands. 09:26.833 --> 09:30.400 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% And so, you know, that can come from 09:30.800 --> 09:32.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% how much you buy of something. 09:32.633 --> 09:34.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And the more people buy, right, 09:34.700 --> 09:38.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the more that signals to brands that there is a demand for 09:38.533 --> 09:39.466 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% more clothing. 09:39.800 --> 09:42.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And so I, you know when it comes to specific lines, 09:42.200 --> 09:45.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I can't say that I have a lot of insight into, 09:46.366 --> 09:49.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% you know, what is going on behind the scenes with brands 09:49.533 --> 09:52.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and their decisio making around what to produce. 09:53.133 --> 09:57.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% But, you know, we do know from market research that 09:58.700 --> 09:59.800 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% what consumers 09:59.800 --> 10:03.900 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% are purchasing really does influence 10:03.900 --> 10:07.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% how these brands reac and in turn, what they produce. 10:07.666 --> 10:10.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Now, what about regulations, Professor Carbone? 10:11.266 --> 10:15.000 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% What—do local 10:15.000 --> 10:18.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% authorities have more control over better garments, 10:18.733 --> 10:22.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% not fast fashion and more control 10:22.466 --> 10:26.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to get the owners to dispose 10:26.466 --> 10:29.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in a way that doesn't harm the environment, 10:29.200 --> 10:31.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the clothes that they just make way too many copies of? 10:31.933 --> 10:33.600 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Well, that would be ideal. 10:33.600 --> 10:39.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% But, from my understanding, that hasn't really happened. 10:39.800 --> 10:45.100 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% There has been some policy voted into law. 10:45.100 --> 10:50.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% In California, there's the Garment Workers Act, 10:50.533 --> 10:55.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% which guarantees a living wage to garment workers. 10:56.033 --> 10:58.666 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% And France, I believe, just 10:58.666 --> 11:02.233 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% passed legislation about 11:02.866 --> 11:05.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% limiting advertising, 11:05.533 --> 11:08.533 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% placing, sort of, 11:09.166 --> 11:12.866 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% extra price to 11:12.866 --> 11:16.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% fashions produced this way to 11:17.366 --> 11:18.533 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% give that extra 11:18.533 --> 11:21.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% money to help the environment that has been 11:22.433 --> 11:23.566 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% damaged. 11:23.566 --> 11:28.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And that price will go up by 2030, apparently. 11:29.300 --> 11:32.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And I think those are 11:32.533 --> 11:35.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% definitely steps in the right direction. 11:36.600 --> 11:41.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% But, you know, right now we have so many harms. 11:41.900 --> 11:45.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% If you just start a the beginning with the brands, 11:47.000 --> 11:50.100 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% designers are able to copy 11:50.100 --> 11:53.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% a fashion on Instagram that a celebrity might be 11:53.566 --> 11:57.666 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% wearing and that product can be ready 11:57.666 --> 12:00.700 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% in a day—a new design. 12:00.700 --> 12:04.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And so they're stealing the designs 12:04.233 --> 12:06.800 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% from the original designer. 12:06.800 --> 12:09.300 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% And, 12:09.300 --> 12:11.500 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% you know, there's just harm 12:11.500 --> 12:15.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% kind of at every level of this chain. 12:15.500 --> 12:18.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So while those policies are going to help, 12:19.200 --> 12:23.733 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I think what Allyson said about the consumer, 12:23.733 --> 12:28.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and I don't want to put the weight on the consumer 12:28.033 --> 12:32.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because this is not a problem that consumers created. 12:32.533 --> 12:36.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And I'm a consumer, we're all consumers. But 12:37.233 --> 12:41.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% I do think the consumer has 12:41.800 --> 12:45.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% power that perhaps many are unaware of. 12:45.933 --> 12:49.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So how do you think consumers, professor, how do you think 12:49.166 --> 12:52.600 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% consumers should be using that power to signal 12:52.600 --> 12:57.033 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to producers, hey, this line is just not attractive. 12:57.966 --> 13:00.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Throw it out, get rid of it, get another one. 13:00.166 --> 13:01.800 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% That's a good question. 13:01.800 --> 13:05.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And I would say it goes even beyond 13:05.133 --> 13:08.133 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% not liking the fashion. 13:08.833 --> 13:12.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I think it really goes to becoming educated, 13:12.766 --> 13:17.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% which more and more consumers are becoming educated. 13:17.733 --> 13:20.733 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% There's more media on this now. 13:20.733 --> 13:25.466 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% It's more on all the social network. But 13:26.933 --> 13:31.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as I said, you know I don't want to blame consumers 13:32.033 --> 13:35.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because they're being so manipulated 13:36.000 --> 13:40.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% by marketing, by influencers. 13:41.300 --> 13:47.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Just by being a teenager and not wanting to be 13:47.700 --> 13:50.966 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% on the out of the in crowd, so to speak. 13:51.766 --> 13:57.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Its just a very complicated psychological issue 13:57.100 --> 14:01.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that people can, in fact, become addicted to shopping 14:02.066 --> 14:05.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% because it gives people a sense of euphoria. 14:05.366 --> 14:07.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And they want to repeat that. 14:07.000 --> 14:11.333 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% And so, you know, as a professor, 14:11.333 --> 14:15.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I think education is very important. 14:16.033 --> 14:18.400 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% But also to join 14:18.400 --> 14:23.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% some of these movements to reuse and repair. 14:23.933 --> 14:28.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I know that some manufacturers who are sustainable, 14:29.033 --> 14:33.266 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% they give repair tags now with their clothing. 14:33.700 --> 14:37.533 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% There's a movement to repair visibly 14:37.866 --> 14:41.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so that you can kind of wear it as a badge of honor. 14:41.666 --> 14:46.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Oh, I had a hole here, but, so I'm going to make a design 14:46.300 --> 14:49.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and cover it and Im sustainable 14:49.500 --> 14:53.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So I think that, you know, may 14:53.166 --> 14:56.133 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% start to get more traction. 14:56.133 --> 15:00.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We are seeing that, especially among younger shoppers, 15:00.133 --> 15:03.866 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% that there is a really keen interest in 15:05.366 --> 15:07.800 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% being a more conscious consumer. 15:07.800 --> 15:11.700 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And that starts with both you know, how much you're buying 15:11.700 --> 15:12.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and also how you're, 15:12.933 --> 15:15.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as Professor Carbone mentioned, you know, how you're 15:15.800 --> 15:17.833 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% taking care of your clothes and really thinking, 15:17.833 --> 15:20.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you know, end to end holistically about 15:21.533 --> 15:24.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what am I doing at the moment that I might purchase 15:24.500 --> 15:27.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% something, whether it's new, whether it's secondhand. 15:27.666 --> 15:28.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And then what am I going to do with it 15:28.900 --> 15:31.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% over the course of its lifespan with me? 15:31.566 --> 15:34.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then what happens at its end of life? 15:34.366 --> 15:35.533 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% And 15:35.533 --> 15:37.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% one thing that I have heard time and time again 15:37.200 --> 15:39.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% from sustainable fashion experts 15:39.233 --> 15:42.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is that just because you know, you're personally done 15:42.500 --> 15:43.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with something doesn't mean that 15:43.766 --> 15:46.833 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that is the end of the life for that garment, right? 15:46.833 --> 15:48.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like it can go on to somebody else. 15:48.700 --> 15:50.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It can become something else. 15:50.866 --> 15:54.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think a lot of consumers are now thinking through 15:54.366 --> 15:58.766 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that whole entire lifespan of a product versus 15:58.766 --> 16:01.466 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% perhaps in the past it might have been, 16:01.466 --> 16:03.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you know, you're in the shop and you see something cute 16:03.900 --> 16:07.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that you like and you're like, well, yeah, I'll buy that. 16:07.733 --> 16:10.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And maybe I'll wear it, maybe I won't. 16:10.333 --> 16:12.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And I think thats when you sort of end up with, 16:12.666 --> 16:16.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you know, dozens of things that you're seeing in your closet, 16:16.066 --> 16:17.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% you know, afte six months and being like, well 16:18.800 --> 16:19.800 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% maybe I never wore it. 16:20.233 --> 16:22.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Maybe I only wore it once, an now I'm going to get rid of it. 16:23.600 --> 16:26.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And so I think, you know, when, when, 16:27.000 --> 16:30.000 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% when I've talked to people about this, 16:30.833 --> 16:31.533 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% one of the— 16:31.800 --> 16:33.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the biggest pieces of advice is that, 16:33.666 --> 16:35.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you know, when were thinking about sustainability, 16:35.366 --> 16:38.366 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% there is always 16:39.433 --> 16:43.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% sort of the messaging that, well, to be sustainable, 16:43.500 --> 16:46.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you know, we have to consum less, which is absolutely true. 16:46.566 --> 16:47.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But when it comes to something 16:47.733 --> 16:50.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% like clothing you know, people are never going 16:50.600 --> 16:54.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% to really be able to stop buying clothing. 16:54.100 --> 16:54.333 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% Right? 16:54.666 --> 16:55.933 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% And so it just— 16:55.933 --> 16:59.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because we know that, then it becomes sort of a 16:59.400 --> 17:02.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% more conscious approach to doing that. 17:02.300 --> 17:05.233 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And as I mentioned, right, it really starts 17:05.233 --> 17:08.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% with buying less and buying better. 17:08.666 --> 17:11.666 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% And, you know, 17:12.000 --> 17:14.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because the fashion landscap is so complicated when it comes 17:14.900 --> 17:20.100 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% to accessibility to brands that might be, 17:20.633 --> 17:21.933 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% you know, 17:21.933 --> 17:23.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% doing things that are considered more sustainable, 17:23.833 --> 17:27.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% whether that's for the environment or for workers, 17:28.266 --> 17:30.633 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% sometime that can come at a price premium 17:30.633 --> 17:33.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and as we've seen, through our research, 17:33.766 --> 17:36.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% as much as people want to be sustainable, 17:36.233 --> 17:39.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% cost is still a really, really major factor 17:39.633 --> 17:41.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in a lot of people's decision making. 17:41.566 --> 17:44.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It's not always about, the brand 17:44.533 --> 17:47.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% that you buy from to be sustainable. 17:47.600 --> 17:48.000 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% Right? 17:48.633 --> 17:53.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So, you know, I have a t shirt from a fast 17:53.366 --> 17:56.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% fashion brand that I have had since 17:56.366 --> 17:59.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% my freshman year of college, and I've— 17:59.333 --> 18:01.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I continue to wear it. Its still, 18:01.800 --> 18:05.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% you know, i my regular rotation of clothing. 18:06.133 --> 18:07.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so just because it's a fast fashion 18:07.900 --> 18:11.800 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% item doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, it 18:12.166 --> 18:15.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is, you know, sort of a huge part of the problem, right? 18:15.033 --> 18:16.933 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% It's like how you take care of it. 18:16.933 --> 18:19.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% There, you know, there was a small hole 18:19.600 --> 18:21.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that appeared in it like several years ago. 18:21.300 --> 18:22.333 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And I just sort of, 18:22.333 --> 18:23.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% you know, mended it. 18:23.766 --> 18:25.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Going from there and then thinking about, 18:25.200 --> 18:28.233 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% well, what is sort of accessible to you. And, 18:29.533 --> 18:31.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% you know, not, I think, being 18:31.500 --> 18:35.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% so hard on yourself a a consumer that when sometimes 18:35.533 --> 18:38.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what is accessible t you might be a, quote unquote, 18:38.866 --> 18:42.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% fast fashion ite but it doesn't have to be fast 18:42.533 --> 18:43.933 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% fashion in use 18:43.933 --> 18:46.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% if you take really good care of it and, 18:46.266 --> 18:49.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% you know, really extend the lifespan of that product 18:49.000 --> 18:52.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% as long as you can. Well, what about new regulations? 18:54.666 --> 18:58.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You know, saying that even fast fashion 18:58.333 --> 19:02.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is covered by these regulations and maybe 19:02.166 --> 19:05.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% setting up special regulations for fast fashion, 19:05.666 --> 19:10.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% saying things like, because it's going to last 19:11.000 --> 19:15.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% not as long as a fine suit or an expensive 19:15.533 --> 19:18.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% something you bought from a fancy shop. 19:18.133 --> 19:21.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Please understand it will be gone 19:21.566 --> 19:25.166 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% in X months, from when you purchased it. 19:25.166 --> 19:27.066 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And buy carefully. 19:27.066 --> 19:28.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% How about something like that? 19:28.366 --> 19:34.533 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Policy will be one lever in this space for sure. 19:34.533 --> 19:37.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think the challeng that we're seeing with that is 19:37.100 --> 19:40.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the policies are very piecemeal at this point. 19:40.700 --> 19:44.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And in some cases, you know, 19:45.300 --> 19:46.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the efforts have been delayed. 19:46.966 --> 19:50.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% You know, we're seeing I think McKinsey had a report 19:50.666 --> 19:53.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% recently on sort of the state of the fashion industry. 19:53.000 --> 19:56.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And they found that you know, two thirds of brands 19:56.466 --> 20:01.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% are behind on their 2030 decarbonization goals. 20:01.300 --> 20:05.100 align:left position:12.5% line:77% size:77.5% In sort of the absence of having really comprehensive policies 20:05.100 --> 20:06.366 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% or regulations, 20:06.366 --> 20:11.333 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% you know, unfortunately, it does oftentimes 20:11.333 --> 20:14.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% tend to fall on the consumer to, 20:14.400 --> 20:17.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as Professor Carbone talked about, 20:19.566 --> 20:21.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to educate themselves and to 20:21.966 --> 20:25.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% make changes on their end that can sort of help 20:25.366 --> 20:27.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% move things toward a more sustainable future. 20:27.833 --> 20:31.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% What if regulators in various countries, 20:31.333 --> 20:36.066 align:left position:12.5% line:77% size:77.5% various parts of the globe, were to pressure or even pass laws 20:36.333 --> 20:39.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% forcing designers and producers of fast 20:39.266 --> 20:43.400 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% fashion to make their clothes more, 20:43.400 --> 20:46.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% you know, long lasting? Would that— 20:47.266 --> 20:52.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% do you think that woul get people to buy more carefully 20:52.000 --> 20:53.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and not think to themselves, 20:53.900 --> 20:56.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% oh, well, I'll wear this twice and throw it out? 20:57.433 --> 21:01.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Or would it not influence purchasing patterns at all? 21:01.866 --> 21:05.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I just, I think it's really complicated. 21:05.600 --> 21:09.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And when there's so much profit 21:09.000 --> 21:12.000 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% involved— 21:12.266 --> 21:15.233 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% You know, the United States passed 21:16.200 --> 21:18.166 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% legislation that 21:18.166 --> 21:21.333 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% we weren't going to import 21:21.333 --> 21:25.366 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% textiles from China because they had so many different 21:25.800 --> 21:29.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% types of fibers in the that they couldn't be recycled. 21:30.366 --> 21:33.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Well, China started sending them to, 21:33.300 --> 21:37.100 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I believe, Thailand and then to the US. 21:37.100 --> 21:42.666 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So it's just incredibly complicated how quickly 21:43.733 --> 21:46.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% people can circumvent 21:46.500 --> 21:47.900 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% policy. 21:47.900 --> 21:50.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And along with that, 21:50.933 --> 21:54.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% there's greenwashing that 21:54.066 --> 21:59.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% right now there's not a lot of accountability for, 21:59.800 --> 22:02.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% you know, if what people are saying 22:02.433 --> 22:05.500 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% is true is really true. 22:05.500 --> 22:10.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So that's another issue that even with strong policy, 22:11.000 --> 22:15.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that could be something really difficult to regulate. 22:15.266 --> 22:18.366 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% How would local authorities be able to enforce— 22:18.366 --> 22:22.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% let's say they find out that a brand new line of t shirts 22:22.333 --> 22:25.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% isnt—with normal wear and tear, 22:25.433 --> 22:27.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it's going to last three months. 22:27.233 --> 22:30.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Could they require producers to put that on the label? 22:30.933 --> 22:32.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I don't think it would hurt. 22:32.900 --> 22:36.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think that actually labeling was part 22:36.466 --> 22:39.733 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% of the French legislation. 22:40.866 --> 22:43.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Do you know about that, Allyson? 22:43.366 --> 22:44.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% I'm not sure about that. 22:44.800 --> 22:45.900 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% You're nodding. 22:45.900 --> 22:46.366 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Yeah. 22:47.066 --> 22:50.400 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% My understandin of the French legislation and, 22:50.700 --> 22:53.766 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% you know, please like fact check me on this. 22:54.566 --> 22:56.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But as you mentioned, I think it did have a lot 22:56.966 --> 23:00.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to do with advertising and claims— 23:00.966 --> 23:04.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% kind of similar to you know, the way that our FTC 23:04.766 --> 23:07.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% here has really cracked down on greenwashing 23:08.233 --> 23:12.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% more broadly, you know, beyond just clothing. 23:12.033 --> 23:13.966 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% But I would have to 23:13.966 --> 23:17.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% read a little more closely on the French legislation. 23:18.633 --> 23:20.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% I do remember 23:20.166 --> 23:23.966 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% tha I believe the EU had their own 23:23.966 --> 23:28.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% sustainabilit policy package, at some point. 23:28.233 --> 23:29.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But I believe that that was delayed. 23:29.733 --> 23:30.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So I don't know if it's worth it 23:30.700 --> 23:33.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% for us to talk about that right now. 23:33.366 --> 23:38.033 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% But there was a intention 23:38.033 --> 23:40.333 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% of having brands, 23:40.333 --> 23:42.266 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% you know do some more sort of thorough, 23:42.266 --> 23:45.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I believe, sustainability reporting. 23:45.133 --> 23:47.733 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% Again, in service of transparency 23:47.733 --> 23:49.733 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% and to combat greenwashing. 23:49.733 --> 23:52.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% But first of all, explain to the audience, 23:52.233 --> 23:55.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% if you don't mind, what exactly is greenwashing? 23:55.200 --> 23:56.233 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% I have an idea. 23:56.233 --> 23:58.700 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I've never seen a definition of it but— 23:58.700 --> 24:01.966 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% that producers try to make it look 24:02.333 --> 24:05.233 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% more environmentally friendly than it actually is. 24:05.233 --> 24:08.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But if you could expand on that a bit, that would be helpful. 24:08.500 --> 24:13.800 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Greenwashing is basically a term used to describe 24:14.833 --> 24:16.333 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% efforts by 24:16.333 --> 24:21.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% companies to, you know, promote sustainability. 24:21.100 --> 24:24.200 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% But oftentimes they are efforts that, 24:24.200 --> 24:26.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% at least on the surface, see like they might be sustainable. 24:26.500 --> 24:30.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But when you really dig into it, you realize that 24:31.166 --> 24:35.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% it is either, you know, not as rosy 24:35.900 --> 24:39.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% as it's being presented or in 24:39.233 --> 24:42.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% some more severe cases, you know, 24:42.000 --> 24:45.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% even more duplicitous than that and could be covering up, 24:45.866 --> 24:48.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you know, very unsustainable practices, 24:48.566 --> 24:49.400 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% actually. 24:49.900 --> 24:52.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It's really important to dive into those claims, really see 24:53.266 --> 24:56.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% if brands are following through on the promises 24:56.366 --> 24:57.333 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% that they're making 24:57.633 --> 25:00.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and to a lot of brands credit, you know, they have 25:00.300 --> 25:02.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% upped their transparency quite a bit. 25:02.166 --> 25:05.733 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So, major fashion houses are now putting out, 25:06.200 --> 25:08.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% you know, sustainability reports. 25:08.166 --> 25:12.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% They're using third party certifications 25:12.133 --> 25:13.100 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% on their products. 25:13.100 --> 25:14.900 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% They're working with third parties 25:14.900 --> 25:17.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to assess their sustainability and putting all that data 25:17.666 --> 25:19.733 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% out there for the consumer. 25:19.733 --> 25:23.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% What can producers do to warn purchasers, 25:24.533 --> 25:28.866 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% look, that this product is everything we said it is. 25:29.166 --> 25:32.766 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% It is—we're not greenwashing you. Were telling you the truth, 25:33.100 --> 25:34.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% here are some sites, 25:34.666 --> 25:36.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and if you want more information, please 25:36.833 --> 25:40.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% follow those links and and read it for yourself. 25:40.233 --> 25:40.633 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% What— 25:41.566 --> 25:43.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% What's keeping producer from doing something like that? 25:43.700 --> 25:47.400 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% The sustainability experts that I've spoken to would say that 25:47.400 --> 25:48.466 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% it's 25:48.866 --> 25:51.933 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% because they don't have the dat and they don't have the actions 25:51.933 --> 25:53.200 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% to back up those claims, right. 25:53.200 --> 25:56.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so they won't be as transparent, 25:56.966 --> 26:01.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% if they're not actuall following through on the claims 26:01.000 --> 26:01.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that they're making. 26:02.366 --> 26:04.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so that's why you really do want to look for companies 26:05.266 --> 26:08.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that are putting everything ou there for the consumer to see, 26:09.400 --> 26:13.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% That can oftentimes be a pretty clear signal that 26:15.600 --> 26:17.033 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% they are, 26:17.033 --> 26:20.033 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% you know, actively trying to address sustainability. 26:20.466 --> 26:24.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And you can see it for yourself, basically. And I think 26:24.066 --> 26:27.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for—going back to the consumer, 26:27.366 --> 26:30.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think it can be overwhelming 26:30.133 --> 26:35.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% because most consumers want to do the right thing. 26:36.066 --> 26:40.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And yet there's conflicting information online. 26:40.400 --> 26:43.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And if consumers are looking for 26:43.566 --> 26:46.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% information, check more than one spot. 26:46.766 --> 26:51.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Look for confirming information in another spot. 26:51.366 --> 26:55.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% It does take a little time, but it can really give you 26:55.666 --> 27:00.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the peace of mind that you know you're working towards 27:00.266 --> 27:05.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% sustainability in whatever way you can. 27:05.366 --> 27:07.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And that's important. 27:07.800 --> 27:11.266 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% You know, like you said, more has to happen. 27:11.266 --> 27:14.400 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% The producers have to get involved. 27:14.400 --> 27:17.466 align:left position:42.5% line:5% size:47.5% But you have to start somewhere. 27:17.466 --> 27:17.800 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% All right. 27:18.000 --> 27:18.300 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Well, thank you 27:19.266 --> 27:21.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% both for your enlightening contributions to this topic. 27:21.500 --> 27:23.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And thank you for covering it. 27:23.266 --> 27:24.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Thank you for being aware of it. 27:24.766 --> 27:27.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And thank you for spreading the word. 27:27.066 --> 27:27.566 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% That's it 27:28.066 --> 27:29.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% for this edition of To The Contrary. 27:29.300 --> 27:32.266 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% Let's keep talking on social media including X, 27:32.633 --> 27:35.600 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. 27:35.600 --> 27:38.166 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% Reach out to us @tothecontrary 27:38.166 --> 27:40.000 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and visit our website, 27:40.000 --> 27:41.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% the address on the screen 27:41.733 --> 27:44.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and whether you agree or think to the contrary, 27:44.500 --> 27:45.500 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% see you next time. 27:57.300 --> 27:59.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Funding for To The Contrary provided by: 28:22.666 --> 28:24.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% You're watching PBS.