WEBVTT 01:40.133 --> 01:41.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Funding for “To the Contrary,” 01:41.933 --> 01:45.666 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% provided by: 01:51.700 --> 01:52.400 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% This week, 01:52.400 --> 01:53.866 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% on “To the Contrary,” 01:53.866 --> 01:57.533 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% a new behind the scenes peek at the history of second- 01:57.533 --> 02:00.600 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% wave feminism. 02:19.466 --> 02:21.066 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% Hello, I'm Bonnie Erbé. 02:21.066 --> 02:24.633 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% Welcome to “To the Contrary,” a weekly discussion of news 02:24.633 --> 02:27.633 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and social trends from diverse perspectives. 02:28.000 --> 02:30.733 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% Muriel Fox is one of the first women 02:30.733 --> 02:34.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% over the fence at the launch of second-wave feminism. 02:34.800 --> 02:37.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% Her new book, “The Women's Revolution: 02:37.566 --> 02:40.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% What We Did for You,” is especially appealing, 02:40.966 --> 02:44.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as the subtitle seems to beckon young, progressive 02:44.266 --> 02:45.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% women and men. 02:45.633 --> 02:48.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% While some may not believe things are great now, it's 02:48.433 --> 02:51.566 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% an exercise in the importance of studying history 02:51.800 --> 02:55.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to gain an understanding of where women would be. 02:55.733 --> 02:58.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% But for the work of Fox's generation, 02:59.100 --> 03:02.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Muriel Fox was the preeminent communications expert 03:02.833 --> 03:06.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% at that time, promoting women's rights to the growing media. 03:06.900 --> 03:10.500 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% She was the strategic partner of National Organization 03:10.500 --> 03:11.300 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% for Women, 03:11.666 --> 03:16.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% co-founder Betty Friedan and a co-founder of NOW herself. 03:16.733 --> 03:18.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% She joined the movement when, yes, 03:18.933 --> 03:21.800 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% women had the 19th amendment and the right to vote 03:21.800 --> 03:25.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% on a national scale, but few other rights. 03:26.200 --> 03:29.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% There weren't many laws protecting against sexism 03:29.566 --> 03:32.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% in hiring and pay, against sexual assault, 03:32.900 --> 03:35.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% against being fired for getting pregnant. 03:35.800 --> 03:37.000 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Few elementary 03:37.000 --> 03:40.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and high schools or colleges had women's sports programs, 03:40.800 --> 03:44.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and when they existed, they were woefully underfunded. 03:44.733 --> 03:47.533 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% Muriel Fox, welcome to the program. 03:47.533 --> 03:49.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Thank you so much. 03:49.633 --> 03:52.633 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% So tell me first why you wrote the book. 03:52.633 --> 03:55.633 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% I wrote the book at the age of 94 03:55.633 --> 03:57.000 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% because I was angry. 03:57.000 --> 04:00.000 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% I was angry about losing abortion rights, 04:00.366 --> 04:03.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and still not having the Equal Rights Amendment. 04:04.366 --> 04:07.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And I was angry because so many educated young 04:07.633 --> 04:10.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% women said they never heard of Betty Friedan. 04:10.866 --> 04:12.700 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% They never heard of NOW. 04:12.700 --> 04:14.433 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% And we changed their lives. 04:14.433 --> 04:17.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% They actually, the subhead from my book is 04:17.866 --> 04:22.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% “The Women's Revolution and How We Changed Your Life.” 04:22.466 --> 04:27.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And we changed the lives of everyone, everywhere, forever. 04:27.133 --> 04:27.600 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% All right. 04:28.033 --> 04:30.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And, tell me about how did that start? 04:30.200 --> 04:31.666 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% In somebody's living room, 04:31.666 --> 04:35.166 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% in a coffee shop on the Upper West Side of Manhattan? 04:35.166 --> 04:36.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And how did that work? 04:36.266 --> 04:40.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Well, if you're talking about NOW just rows everywhere. 04:40.633 --> 04:44.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We were all so tired of hearing we don't hire women. 04:44.433 --> 04:48.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We don't admit women to this place or this labor 04:48.033 --> 04:53.066 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% union or this restaurant or this job or this. 04:53.800 --> 04:56.200 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% And we knew there had to be a change. 04:56.200 --> 04:59.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We were all involved in the civil rights movement, 04:59.200 --> 05:04.766 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and we really we wanted what people call the NAACP for women. 05:04.766 --> 05:07.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Betty Friedan, who wrote “The Feminine Mystique 05:07.833 --> 05:08.966 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% which was a huge hit. 05:08.966 --> 05:12.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It was all about suburban women, you know, who married, 05:12.800 --> 05:16.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% financially, were able to not have to work or do work 05:16.500 --> 05:19.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that they wanted to try to do, but they were all bored. 05:19.700 --> 05:22.366 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And, was essentially what I took away 05:22.366 --> 05:23.933 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% from that book at the time. 05:23.933 --> 05:26.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And they were bored because they were being limited 05:26.133 --> 05:28.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% in what they could do with their lives. 05:28.033 --> 05:33.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Tell me about her, about Gloria Steinem, who is still with us. 05:33.300 --> 05:34.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But tell me also about the women 05:34.966 --> 05:36.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who were part of that movement. 05:36.800 --> 05:40.900 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% And forming NOW who aren't big names in it. 05:40.900 --> 05:44.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You know, as far as the women's history, the women's movement 05:44.700 --> 05:46.000 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% history is concerned. 05:46.000 --> 05:50.200 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Betty Friedan wrote her book, as you say, for suburban, 05:50.200 --> 05:54.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% well-educated women, but immediately resonated 05:54.966 --> 06:00.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% with all women of all classes and NOW was founded 06:00.500 --> 06:04.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for all women to fight discrimination in jobs. 06:04.500 --> 06:07.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And most of our early lawsuits 06:07.300 --> 06:10.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% were for women in factories who wanted a promotion, 06:11.100 --> 06:14.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who wanted to get into the seniority list for 06:14.000 --> 06:15.133 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% the labor movement. 06:16.166 --> 06:17.500 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% And so 06:17.500 --> 06:20.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% people who say, “Well, it was ju 06:20.200 --> 06:24.166 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% middle class women,” it was it was all women resonate 06:24.700 --> 06:29.100 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to the need for ending the idea that you could 06:29.100 --> 06:32.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% say, “We don't hire women, we don't promote women.” 06:32.766 --> 06:35.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And who else was there among you who didn't get, 06:35.766 --> 06:40.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who didn't make it into the current 06:40.000 --> 06:44.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% generation's knowledge of women formed second-wave feminism. 06:44.300 --> 06:48.533 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% My book salutes 30 women, 29 06:48.533 --> 06:52.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% women and one man, a man named Phineas Indritz, a lawyer 06:52.866 --> 06:56.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and every one of them deserves to be in our history books 06:56.766 --> 06:59.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as much as Patrick Henry or John 06:59.333 --> 07:02.700 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Paul Jones or any other hero. 07:02.700 --> 07:05.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Every one of them changed our lives 07:05.966 --> 07:08.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and they worked on the issues that were important. 07:08.600 --> 07:13.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And certainly Pauli Murray, a great educator, 07:13.800 --> 07:18.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% lawyer, later became a, you know, an Episcopalian priest 07:18.566 --> 07:21.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and one of our leaders. 07:21.100 --> 07:24.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And every one of them understood that we were going 07:24.533 --> 07:26.033 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% to change the world. 07:26.033 --> 07:28.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We didn't think it would happen so fast. 07:28.333 --> 07:29.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And it happened so fast 07:29.466 --> 07:33.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because as women said, it was long overdue. 07:33.333 --> 07:35.666 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% It was thousands of years overdue. 07:36.766 --> 07:38.833 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% And that this time, 07:38.833 --> 07:41.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for instance, as we say in the statement of purpose 07:41.466 --> 07:43.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% with Betty Friedan wrote 07:43.766 --> 07:47.000 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% only 1% of our federal judges were women. 07:47.366 --> 07:51.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Only 4% of our lawyers were women. 07:51.100 --> 07:54.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Only 7% of our doctors were women. 07:54.600 --> 07:55.966 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% We had to overcome that. 07:55.966 --> 07:58.333 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% This was taken for granted. 07:58.333 --> 08:01.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And medical schools and law schools 08:01.200 --> 08:04.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and business schools says we don't admit women. 08:04.666 --> 08:06.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And they just took this for granted. 08:06.200 --> 08:09.700 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% That's the way it had always been, but we change that. 08:09.700 --> 08:11.333 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% We changed the laws. 08:11.333 --> 08:13.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We made the government enforce the laws. 08:13.933 --> 08:17.800 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% We had the Civil Rights Act of 1964, 08:18.266 --> 08:21.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and there was something called Title VII, 08:21.366 --> 08:23.933 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% which said you may not discriminate, but 08:23.933 --> 08:26.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it didn't say anything about sex discrimination. 08:27.233 --> 08:30.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And we got sex discrimination put into Title VII. 08:31.200 --> 08:34.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, 08:34.133 --> 08:36.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and all the experts said, “Oh, we can't do that. 08:36.700 --> 08:39.000 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% It's trivial.” 08:39.000 --> 08:40.266 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Well, it wasn't trivial. 08:40.266 --> 08:45.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Most of the cases that came up were not only for minorities, 08:45.533 --> 08:48.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they were for women who had been discriminated against. 08:48.433 --> 08:51.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And we realized that this is a need for the public. 08:51.866 --> 08:52.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% All right. 08:52.766 --> 08:55.266 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% So okay, tell me for, let's start with 08:56.100 --> 08:59.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% property laws, where were women? 08:59.733 --> 09:03.733 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% In the time period when NOW was new and young 09:03.733 --> 09:06.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and starting out, what property rights did women have? 09:06.966 --> 09:10.500 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Because as we know, is still true in some countries, 09:10.800 --> 09:14.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% mainly developing nations, women don't even have 09:14.266 --> 09:15.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% the right to own property, 09:15.466 --> 09:18.133 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% anything they own at the time they get married 09:18.133 --> 09:21.833 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% goes from being, you know, or may have owned it as 09:21.833 --> 09:25.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% an adult, goes from their father to their husband. 09:25.366 --> 09:26.200 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% You're right. 09:26.200 --> 09:28.833 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% Well, women couldn't get mortgages, 09:28.833 --> 09:31.000 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and their salary wasn't counted. 09:31.000 --> 09:33.366 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% If a husband and wife applied for a mortgage, 09:33.366 --> 09:35.666 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% the woman's salary wasn't counted. 09:35.666 --> 09:38.666 align:left position:42.5% line:83% size:47.5% Women couldn't get a credit card. And, 09:40.300 --> 09:42.100 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% it only had to be in her husband's name. 09:42.100 --> 09:44.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% A single woman couldn't get a credit card. 09:44.500 --> 09:47.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And if your husband died or you had a divorce, 09:47.266 --> 09:49.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% you lost your credit card. 09:49.633 --> 09:52.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And, we had to change all this 09:53.000 --> 09:55.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% so that women could have property rights. 09:55.566 --> 09:59.066 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And incidentally, in some states like Louisiana, 09:59.433 --> 10:03.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% there was the headed master law, where the woman's earnings 10:03.000 --> 10:04.100 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% didn't care the law. 10:04.100 --> 10:07.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The man was the head of master, and he had the rights 10:07.766 --> 10:08.900 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% to their property, 10:08.900 --> 10:11.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% even if she was the one who was earning the money. 10:11.933 --> 10:15.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Who were the primary movers and strategizers 10:16.633 --> 10:19.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% on how to do that in the financial arena? 10:19.166 --> 10:22.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Certainly, Betty Friedan, she was our leader 10:22.666 --> 10:25.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for the first four years of NOW 10:25.266 --> 10:28.733 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% Betty Friedan really gave us a strategy. 10:28.933 --> 10:31.333 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% She gave us our name NOW, 10:31.333 --> 10:34.100 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and she gave us this wonderful statement 10:34.100 --> 10:36.300 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% of purpose and really our energy. 10:36.300 --> 10:38.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% She was very hard to get along with, 10:38.666 --> 10:41.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% but she was a great woman. 10:41.166 --> 10:43.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And then, as I said, Pauli Murray. 10:43.300 --> 10:45.000 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And there are names that you've never heard. 10:45.000 --> 10:46.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The people have never heard of 10:46.500 --> 10:49.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% that they must hear of. Mary Eastwood, 10:49.233 --> 10:52.566 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Catherine East, Marguerite Rawalt. 10:52.566 --> 10:55.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% These are all the 30 people in my book. 10:55.766 --> 10:58.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I tried to cut it back, like I thought “Oh, well thats too many,” 10:58.633 --> 11:03.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but every one of them made such a difference in people's lives. 11:03.633 --> 11:06.433 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% And, I hope people will recognize this and 11:06.433 --> 11:09.866 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I hope history will begin to salute these people 11:09.866 --> 11:11.166 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% because they deserve it. 11:11.166 --> 11:11.466 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% All right. 11:12.000 --> 11:14.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Tell us about some more. Pauli Murray, 11:14.333 --> 11:15.466 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% what happened to her? 11:15.466 --> 11:18.633 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% You say she was a great legal strategist. 11:18.633 --> 11:21.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Pauli Murray was a great woman. 11:21.166 --> 11:23.233 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% And she actually 11:24.366 --> 11:25.733 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% had some of the 11:25.733 --> 11:29.500 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% ideas that went into Brown vs. Board of Education 11:29.500 --> 11:33.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and other Pauli Murray ideas, separate but equal. 11:33.966 --> 11:35.600 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Those were her ideas. 11:35.600 --> 11:38.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So, she was very active in our movement. 11:38.800 --> 11:43.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And then she went on, as I said, to become an Episcopal priest. 11:43.400 --> 11:45.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Now, you mentioned Gloria Steinem. 11:45.633 --> 11:48.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Gloria came a little later, 11:48.900 --> 11:52.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% but when she, she would, in 1969, 11:52.733 --> 11:56.233 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I led a protest at the Plaza Hotel, Oak Room, 11:56.233 --> 11:59.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because they didnt admit women for lunch. 11:59.133 --> 12:01.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And Gloria Steinem was one of the reporters there. 12:01.833 --> 12:04.800 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I remember she came up to me because we were picketing. 12:04.800 --> 12:07.933 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And at that time Gloria said, “Well, I'm not a feminist. 12:07.933 --> 12:09.400 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% I'm a humanist.” 12:09.400 --> 12:13.033 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% But soon after she decided, yes, she was a feminist 12:13.533 --> 12:16.433 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% and she's still active today. 12:16.433 --> 12:19.166 align:left position:42.5% line:83% size:47.5% Bella Abzug came along a little later 12:19.166 --> 12:22.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% again, Bella Abzug, when she was elected to Congress. 12:22.633 --> 12:25.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Again, I'd say thanks to the women's movement, 12:25.700 --> 12:29.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% she introduced and helped to pass the Fair Credit Act, 12:29.600 --> 12:32.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% which meant women could have credit cards 12:32.666 --> 12:35.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and could be considered for credit. 12:35.933 --> 12:40.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And incidentally, the the want ads were still saying 12:40.566 --> 12:43.200 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% help wanted male, help wanted female 12:43.200 --> 12:45.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and all the good jobs were listed, 12:45.600 --> 12:48.533 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% needless to say, under help wanted male 12:48.533 --> 12:52.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we had to make the the government enforce 12:52.733 --> 12:55.633 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Title VII to show that you're not allowed to do that. 12:55.633 --> 12:57.766 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% That was sex discrimination. 12:57.766 --> 13:01.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So, Gloria Steinem came a little bit later. 13:01.800 --> 13:04.333 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% But has lasted a lot longer. 13:04.333 --> 13:07.333 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% Does she do, you think, at least in terms of 13:07.600 --> 13:11.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% being one of the mothers of second-wave feminism, 13:11.566 --> 13:13.233 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% does she get too much credit? 13:13.233 --> 13:14.500 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% No, no, no. 13:14.500 --> 13:18.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% She deserves every bit of credit she receives. 13:18.133 --> 13:21.566 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Gloria has been a champion for us all these years, 13:21.566 --> 13:22.666 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% and she's still, 13:22.666 --> 13:26.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% at the age of 90, still fighting for women's rights. 13:26.666 --> 13:27.833 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% It took all of us. 13:27.833 --> 13:31.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It took these leaders, the 30 leaders, certainly, 13:31.400 --> 13:34.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% which included Pauli Murray and Gloria Steinem. 13:35.600 --> 13:37.900 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% But it also included, 13:37.900 --> 13:41.066 align:left position:40% line:5% size:50% really tens of thousands of women 13:41.066 --> 13:44.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and men who were angry about some injustice. 13:45.066 --> 13:49.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And each person worked on what made them mad 13:49.633 --> 13:51.933 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% in their labor union, in their school, 13:51.933 --> 13:56.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and in their city, in their university, 13:57.266 --> 13:58.433 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% in their company. 13:58.433 --> 14:01.033 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Wherever there was an injustice, they worked. 14:02.133 --> 14:05.166 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% And I wrote my book because I really want 14:05.166 --> 14:09.300 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% especially those 30 people, certainly including 14:09.300 --> 14:12.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Betty Friedan, to be recognized by history 14:12.900 --> 14:15.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so people will know what we did for them, 14:15.833 --> 14:18.833 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but also what they could do for the future. 14:19.033 --> 14:23.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You mentioned the cross pollination I think between 14:23.266 --> 14:27.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% or how I would put it between, feminism and civil rights. 14:27.300 --> 14:30.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You mentioned the Civil Rights Act of 1965. 14:31.900 --> 14:34.700 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% How much was second- 14:34.700 --> 14:37.700 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% wave feminism built 14:38.233 --> 14:41.466 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% on the civil rights movement, which pertained largely at 14:41.466 --> 14:46.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the time to African Americans, and equal rights for them. 14:46.533 --> 14:50.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% They too, have been, you know, hugely denied 14:50.733 --> 14:51.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% all kinds of rights 14:51.800 --> 14:54.566 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that should have been theirs from the beginning. 14:54.566 --> 14:57.333 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% And, how much, 14:57.333 --> 14:59.866 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% if any, did the civil 14:59.866 --> 15:03.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% rights movement learn from the women's movement 15:03.500 --> 15:07.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in putting together its strategy and policy change agenda? 15:07.633 --> 15:08.966 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% First of all, 15:08.966 --> 15:12.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% our movement is part of the civil rights movement. 15:12.433 --> 15:16.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% As we say in the statement, the purpose of NOW, 15:17.033 --> 15:19.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% actually the paragraph the Pauli Murray 15:19.666 --> 15:20.033 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% wrote. 15:20.533 --> 15:23.300 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% Civil rights for all are indivisible. 15:23.800 --> 15:27.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And so we were all working for the same rights. 15:27.900 --> 15:30.600 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And I remember when we met in the White House 15:30.600 --> 15:35.100 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% with Lyndon Johnson's deputy, John Macy, and he said, “Well, 15:35.100 --> 15:39.033 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% don't you women want separate rules and separate laws?” 15:39.033 --> 15:42.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I said, “No, were part of the civil rights movement. 15:43.133 --> 15:44.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We want the same laws. 15:44.766 --> 15:47.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We want to be included in those laws, 15:47.033 --> 15:49.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and we want the laws to be enforced 15:49.833 --> 15:51.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% against sex discrimination.” 15:51.900 --> 15:55.900 align:left position:12.5% line:77% size:77.5% But then why want a separate Equal Rights Amendment in the U.S. 15:55.900 --> 15:59.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Constitution, which consists of just a couple of words 15:59.166 --> 16:02.900 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I know, but still referred to as the Equal Rights Amendment. 16:02.900 --> 16:03.166 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Right. 16:03.766 --> 16:05.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Because that's something we don't have. 16:05.966 --> 16:09.500 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% We have the 13th and 14th amendment, 16:10.366 --> 16:13.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% which gave people of color their rights. 16:14.366 --> 16:18.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% But, we're one of the few countries that doesn't recognize 16:18.500 --> 16:21.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that women and men should not be discriminated against. 16:22.300 --> 16:25.333 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% The ERA, as we call, 16:26.100 --> 16:29.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% you know, says equality of rights under the law 16:30.100 --> 16:33.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% shall not be denied or abridged 16:33.233 --> 16:37.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% by the United States or any state on account of sex. 16:37.566 --> 16:39.500 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% That's all it says. 16:39.500 --> 16:41.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And, it's no special privilege. 16:41.966 --> 16:44.633 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% It just means don't abridge our rights 16:44.633 --> 16:49.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and it's time that women were in our Constitution, 16:49.433 --> 16:53.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% were in the most Constitutions of most developed countries. 16:53.833 --> 16:56.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And the New York state is going to have 16:56.566 --> 17:00.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% a New York State ERA up on their election this November. 17:01.166 --> 17:05.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Now, there was the famous quote from Stokely 17:05.100 --> 17:07.700 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% Carmichael, one of the leaders of NAACP. 17:07.700 --> 17:09.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% SNCC, I forget which group. 17:09.800 --> 17:11.033 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% I apologize, 17:11.033 --> 17:14.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% but when asked what the position of women 17:14.533 --> 17:15.700 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% was in the movement, 17:15.700 --> 17:17.133 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% he said the position of women 17:17.133 --> 17:21.333 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% should be prone, which was a pretty huge insult 17:21.666 --> 17:25.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to forward thinking women and the men who supported them. 17:26.900 --> 17:28.400 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% So were, tell me 17:28.400 --> 17:31.466 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% about the inside, behind the curtain. 17:31.466 --> 17:35.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% What were relations like between the two parts of the 17:35.533 --> 17:36.500 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% of this movement? 17:36.500 --> 17:39.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Stokely Carmichael was just being smart. But, 17:40.633 --> 17:42.733 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% most of us 17:42.733 --> 17:47.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% realize that our civil rights were indivisible, 17:47.433 --> 17:50.433 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% but women did have to fight for Black civil rights 17:50.433 --> 17:53.366 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% movement, didn't have women leaders, 17:53.366 --> 17:56.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and there were people who made comments like that. 17:56.600 --> 17:59.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And that was another reason that we needed 17:59.366 --> 18:02.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the National Organization for Women. 18:02.600 --> 18:05.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And incidentally, it's for women, not of women, 18:05.533 --> 18:09.133 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% because we had a lot of men, wonderful men in the movement, 18:09.533 --> 18:11.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and they understood that our movement 18:11.800 --> 18:14.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is working for our sons as well as our daughters. 18:14.966 --> 18:16.900 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Men, men realize 18:16.900 --> 18:17.533 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% that they've 18:18.133 --> 18:21.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% been discriminated against in being expected in the old days 18:21.433 --> 18:24.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to be the sole supporter of the family. 18:24.333 --> 18:25.966 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% That's a burden. 18:25.966 --> 18:30.166 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And now, with women sharing the burden as partners, 18:30.800 --> 18:32.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% it liberates everybody. 18:32.066 --> 18:34.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% It liberates our sons as well as our daughters. 18:34.866 --> 18:37.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Are you at all disappointed by what you say? 18:37.600 --> 18:40.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Women and men, not all men share the burden. 18:40.800 --> 18:43.800 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Not all women, quite frankly, want to share 18:44.066 --> 18:48.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% the burden has been my unfortunate experience 18:49.100 --> 18:51.366 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% becoming an adult in this society. 18:53.000 --> 18:54.433 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Has that held women back? 18:54.433 --> 18:55.466 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Because women, 18:55.466 --> 18:58.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% today's women certainly don't feel like they are 18:58.266 --> 19:03.533 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% where they need or want to be in terms of equality in society. 19:03.533 --> 19:05.133 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Well, you're right. 19:05.133 --> 19:08.633 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I mean, we have not reached equal partnership, but 19:08.633 --> 19:13.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we're getting better and better and it's better for everyone. 19:13.100 --> 19:17.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Gloria Steinem has said it took us 50 years 19:17.433 --> 19:20.566 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% to prove that women can do what men do. 19:20.566 --> 19:23.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Now we have to prove that men can do what women 19:23.766 --> 19:26.766 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% do, and that means childcare. 19:26.766 --> 19:30.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It means sharing the housework because the women 19:30.300 --> 19:32.200 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% are out in the workforce. 19:32.200 --> 19:34.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And it's certainly, good for the men too 19:34.933 --> 19:37.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that the women are sharing the economic burden. 19:38.200 --> 19:39.600 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% And it's not just about, 19:39.600 --> 19:40.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% there are women 19:40.800 --> 19:44.566 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% who work in the home who get great satisfaction from it. 19:44.900 --> 19:48.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And NOW has always said these women deserve 19:48.600 --> 19:53.366 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% to be recognized and paid, given financial security, 19:53.866 --> 19:56.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% security in case of divorce 19:56.466 --> 19:59.533 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% and given respect. Thats an option. 19:59.933 --> 20:03.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But you look at most of the statistics, most women, 20:04.266 --> 20:08.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% even those of childbearing age, are in the workforce. 20:08.966 --> 20:11.800 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And I think it's not only for the money, 20:11.800 --> 20:14.300 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% it's for the satisfaction of 20:14.300 --> 20:17.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% doing a job, doing what they like to do, doing what 20:17.566 --> 20:22.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they're capable of doing, doing what they're educated to do. 20:22.333 --> 20:24.000 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% So it's a whole new world, 20:24.000 --> 20:26.700 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% and I think everybody benefits from it. 20:26.700 --> 20:31.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I believe that the women's revolution started 20:31.466 --> 20:36.966 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% with the founding of NOW, on October 29, 1966. 20:37.466 --> 20:39.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And that's when we started 20:39.166 --> 20:42.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% questioning all the laws, getting the laws changed, 20:43.100 --> 20:46.033 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% talking about consciousness raising. 20:46.033 --> 20:49.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So especially women and small groups 20:49.933 --> 20:53.200 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% would share their experiences and understand 20:53.666 --> 20:58.200 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% how they had been suppressed and in many cases, oppressed. 20:58.200 --> 21:02.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Now, I used to do, there's a point in time in the ‘80s, 90 21:02.933 --> 21:05.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% where I used to go to a lot of college campuses 21:05.466 --> 21:08.933 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and some corporate events and speak on women's issues 21:08.933 --> 21:12.100 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and women's rights, and I had, and these were, 21:12.100 --> 21:13.700 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% you know, I didn't set up the events. 21:13.700 --> 21:16.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% They were mainly white events, 21:16.300 --> 21:19.300 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and but sometimes women of color would, 21:19.633 --> 21:22.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% would come up to me and say, “What about us? 21:22.300 --> 21:23.833 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% We've been left out.” 21:23.833 --> 21:27.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Was that something you encountered at the beginning 21:27.133 --> 21:31.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of second-wave feminism and was there, 21:31.500 --> 21:34.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and now when you talk about women's rights, 21:34.400 --> 21:36.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% it's almost like it's more important. 21:36.566 --> 21:41.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Women of, the rights of women and persons of color, 21:42.466 --> 21:45.400 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and LGBTQ than white women. 21:45.400 --> 21:49.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So this is a big change in the last 50 years. 21:50.300 --> 21:52.933 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Do you believe that 21:52.933 --> 21:57.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% NOW reached out enough to not just white women, 21:57.400 --> 22:03.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but other women and gay people and all the other people 22:03.066 --> 22:06.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% who were not included at the beginning of the movement? 22:06.400 --> 22:08.000 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Well, we evolved, 22:08.000 --> 22:11.000 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% you know, we were a revolution. 22:11.000 --> 22:15.466 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We started talking about jobs and education for all women, 22:15.766 --> 22:19.033 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% white women, Black women, disabled women, 22:20.966 --> 22:22.133 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% And we learned 22:22.133 --> 22:26.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% more and more that people had additional needs. 22:26.866 --> 22:29.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Women of color had additional needs 22:29.300 --> 22:32.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% at first we didn't pay enough attention to, 22:32.433 --> 22:35.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but we evolved, we learned, and we are working 22:36.300 --> 22:39.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for all women's needs, and they vary. 22:39.833 --> 22:42.733 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% They're not, all women are not the same. 22:42.733 --> 22:44.700 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% And, we learned it. 22:44.700 --> 22:46.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But on the other hand, 22:46.000 --> 22:50.033 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% all women want to be treated equally and fairly. 22:50.366 --> 22:52.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And that's the thing we were working for 22:52.266 --> 22:53.933 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% from the very beginning. 22:53.933 --> 22:56.600 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And then we added things. We added the lesbians. 22:56.600 --> 23:01.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We had minority women's, LGBTQ certainly. 23:01.733 --> 23:03.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And at the beginning we had big fights 23:03.766 --> 23:08.833 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% at NOW. Should we include lesbianism as a feminist issue? 23:09.066 --> 23:12.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And it took us about four years before we worked through that. 23:12.966 --> 23:15.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Tell me about those discussions. 23:15.066 --> 23:18.666 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% You know, what were the reasons not to, 23:18.666 --> 23:22.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% what were the reasons to, and who won out in the end? 23:22.266 --> 23:26.066 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% At first, some of us, including me, thought that 23:26.066 --> 23:27.400 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% it was a separate issue. 23:28.366 --> 23:30.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Gender, gender identity, etc. 23:30.900 --> 23:32.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% was a separate issue. 23:32.666 --> 23:37.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And there were a group of very wise lesbians within NOW 23:38.566 --> 23:42.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% who published position papers and told us 23:42.733 --> 23:44.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% it is a feminist issue 23:44.633 --> 23:47.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% because it's part of how women are perceived. 23:48.100 --> 23:51.100 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% It's part of how women are stereotyped. 23:51.333 --> 23:54.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And, so we discussed this and we learned 23:55.166 --> 23:58.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and by 1971 September, 23:58.766 --> 24:01.766 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% actually at the conference where I was elected NOWs 24:01.766 --> 24:06.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% national board chair, NOW voted for the first time 24:07.266 --> 24:10.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% lesbianism is a feminist issue. 24:10.933 --> 24:13.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I'm not pretending we didn't have a lot 24:13.700 --> 24:17.400 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% of discussions and battles about that until then. 24:17.400 --> 24:20.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% But there was never a lesbian purge, 24:20.900 --> 24:23.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% as some historians have claimed. 24:23.533 --> 24:26.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It was just really discussions 24:26.966 --> 24:30.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and differences and arguments. 24:30.833 --> 24:32.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And we evolved 24:32.700 --> 24:35.100 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and we learned that we all have to work together. 24:35.100 --> 24:38.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I'm not aware of the claimed lesbian purge. 24:38.900 --> 24:39.900 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% What was that about? 24:41.000 --> 24:45.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And, where did it come from since it didn't. 24:46.166 --> 24:49.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It really just came from some things that happened 24:49.433 --> 24:51.266 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% that were not lesbian purges. 24:51.266 --> 24:53.366 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% I mean, to go into, 24:53.366 --> 24:56.766 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% one of them was that Betty Friedan, our great leader, 24:57.333 --> 24:59.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% wasn't that easy to get along with. 24:59.633 --> 25:04.166 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And she wanted us to fire our executive director at one point 25:04.500 --> 25:07.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who she felt was not subservient to her enough. 25:08.100 --> 25:10.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So it was really just personal. 25:11.100 --> 25:14.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% This was Dolores Alexander, a wonderful woman. 25:14.466 --> 25:18.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And actually, Dolores was not a lesbian at that time. 25:18.133 --> 25:19.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% She turned out 25:19.900 --> 25:22.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% to just be a lesbian a couple of years later. 25:23.166 --> 25:24.333 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% But at that time, she wasn't. 25:24.333 --> 25:27.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So it was not a lesbian purge. 25:27.066 --> 25:27.666 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% It was. 25:27.866 --> 25:30.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It was just difference of opinion. 25:30.200 --> 25:33.800 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% And we had our battles, 25:33.800 --> 25:36.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we had our discussions and our arguments 25:36.633 --> 25:39.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and some lesbians left and thought we weren't 25:40.200 --> 25:41.566 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% considering them enough. 25:41.566 --> 25:45.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Rita Mae Brown, a very well-know author of Rubyfruit 25:45.566 --> 25:46.866 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Jungle. 25:46.866 --> 25:51.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% She left in a huff and, you know, said 25:51.000 --> 25:54.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% some angry things, but it wasn't a purge. 25:54.533 --> 25:56.833 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% It was her choice, actually. 25:56.833 --> 25:59.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And most of us voted to stay in. 26:00.100 --> 26:04.233 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And ultimately, we voted that lesbianism was a feminist issue. 26:04.566 --> 26:08.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And many of our most active members today 26:08.633 --> 26:11.466 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% are members of the LGBTQ community. 26:11.466 --> 26:14.400 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% Well, we're about out of time here, but I just want to ask you 26:14.400 --> 26:16.233 align:left position:37.5% line:5% size:52.5% anything that you raised in the book 26:16.233 --> 26:18.800 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% that I haven't asked you about and you'd like to bring up. 26:18.800 --> 26:21.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I just want to say, we did it. 26:22.066 --> 26:25.800 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% And you young people can do it too. 26:25.800 --> 26:30.533 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% We're counting on people to benefit by what we did. 26:30.533 --> 26:32.766 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% I think the stories will interest them. 26:32.766 --> 26:36.066 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Some will still see how hard it was and the mistakes we made, 26:36.600 --> 26:38.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but I think they'll be inspired. 26:38.466 --> 26:41.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% I hope that's what people say about my book, 26:41.466 --> 26:42.566 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% that it's inspiring, 26:43.600 --> 26:44.166 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% as well as 26:44.533 --> 26:47.166 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% entertaining and I hope they'll be inspired 26:47.366 --> 26:49.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to do the work that still needs to be done, 26:49.733 --> 26:53.466 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and certainly to get involved in politics. This year, 26:53.466 --> 26:55.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% it's all about politics. 26:55.766 --> 26:59.833 align:left position:37.5% line:83% size:52.5% in 2024. We can get abortion rights back. 26:59.833 --> 27:02.733 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We can get the ERA, we can get everything. 27:02.733 --> 27:06.566 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% If we get feminist leaders elected 27:06.566 --> 27:10.133 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% not just to the presidency, but to Congress, 27:10.133 --> 27:14.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to legislatures, state and local, to school boards, 27:15.000 --> 27:18.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% politics is absolutely the name of the game this year. 27:18.900 --> 27:21.966 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Thank you so much, Muriel Fox, for joining us. 27:22.333 --> 27:26.333 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Her book is available online and at most bookstores. 27:26.633 --> 27:28.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% That's it for this edition 27:28.066 --> 27:28.966 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% of “To the Contrary.” 27:29.233 --> 27:32.566 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% Continue the conversation on our social media platforms, 27:32.800 --> 27:35.800 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% on X, on Facebook, @tothecountrary, 27:35.800 --> 27:38.433 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and on our PBS web page. 27:38.433 --> 27:40.333 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% The address is on the screen. 27:40.333 --> 27:41.600 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Please join us next time 27:41.600 --> 27:45.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and whether you agree or think to the contrary, see you soon. 27:57.300 --> 28:00.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Funding for “To the Contrary,” provided by: