WEBVTT 00:02.366 --> 00:05.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Good evening, and welcome to Washington Week. Last night's State of the Union proved that Joe Biden, 00:06.966 --> 00:09.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% despite his advanced age, can still deliver an impassioned speech, but it's not yet 00:09.900 --> 00:14.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% clear that voters, many of whom think he's simply too old to run, will get on board. 00:16.366 --> 00:18.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Of course, it's not clear at all that Donald Trump, weighted down 00:18.166 --> 00:22.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% by something more consequential than age, namely 91 felony charges, 00:22.300 --> 00:27.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% will be able to convince all but his most loyal followers that he deserves to be president again. 00:27.133 --> 00:32.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Joining me tonight to discuss all this and more, Eugene Daniels, a White House correspondent for 00:34.366 --> 00:37.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Politico and co-author of Politico's Playbook, Asma Khalid is a White House correspondent for 00:39.800 --> 00:43.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% NPR and a political contributor for ABC News, and Carlos Lozada is a columnist for The New York 00:45.333 --> 00:48.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Times. He is also the author of The Washington Book. Thank you very much for being here. Carlos, 00:50.766 --> 00:54.766 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% welcome. Your first time on Washington Week? Big time, it's a big time thing. 00:54.766 --> 00:56.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Carlos Lozada, Columnist, The New York Times: Big fan. 00:56.500 --> 00:59.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Jeffrey Goldberg: Well, first time caller. We're very happy to have 00:59.466 --> 01:02.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you here and congratulations on your book. We'll talk about it in a minute. 01:03.733 --> 01:05.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% I want to talk about the State of the Union. Before we talk about it, 01:05.900 --> 01:10.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I want you to just watch a brief excerpt from Joe Biden's performance last night. 01:12.833 --> 01:17.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Joe Biden, U.S. President: The issue facing our nation isn't how old we are, 01:19.266 --> 01:22.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it's how old our ideas. Hate, anger, revenge, retribution are the oldest of ideas. But you 01:24.700 --> 01:29.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% can't lead America with ancient ideas. It will only take us back. You lead America, 01:31.800 --> 01:35.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the land of possibilities, you need a vision for the future and what can and should be done. 01:37.566 --> 01:41.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Jeffrey Goldberg: So, Asma, I'm struck by this. A lot of people were struck 01:41.133 --> 01:45.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% by the sheer level of energy that he was bringing. Part of it was because we had 01:45.233 --> 01:50.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% been told by the Republicans that he's practically on his deathbed. Part of it 01:52.300 --> 01:56.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% was because we've all noticed that sometimes his voice doesn't project in the way that it 01:56.533 --> 02:01.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% used to. It was a very, very energetic, impassioned performance. Give us your -- 02:03.400 --> 02:05.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Asma Khalid, White House Correspondent, NPR: That's true. And, you know, certainly, 02:05.600 --> 02:08.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% there were some moments where he stumbled, but I would also say he was interrupted multiple 02:08.433 --> 02:12.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% times by different hecklers, and he had no qualms. In fact, he seemed to enjoy these 02:12.300 --> 02:17.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% moments of sparring with Republicans, whether it was on taxes, Social Security, immigration. 02:17.100 --> 02:20.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But what I was really struck by is, if you compare this speech to his previous 02:20.600 --> 02:24.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% state of the unions, there was more of an undercurrent of unity, working together, 02:24.900 --> 02:28.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% big legislative achievements. This was very different. It was a campaign speech. 02:28.733 --> 02:32.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It was the kickoff of a general election campaign. And it was a clear contrast from 02:32.466 --> 02:36.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans on everything, from abortion to immigration to the economy. And to me, 02:36.300 --> 02:40.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% the most interesting part, I know it didn't get a lot of headlines, was actually the economy. 02:40.066 --> 02:43.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think that this is a real vulnerability for President Biden. When you look at poll 02:43.900 --> 02:47.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% after poll Republicans have, you know, somewhere between like 15 to 02:47.466 --> 02:51.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% even 20 percent of an advantage on the economy. One pollster I talked to said, 02:51.900 --> 02:56.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% like Democratic pollster, said Democrats win the presidential when they breakeven on the 02:56.366 --> 02:58.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% economy. And so Biden has work to do. And I think you heard some of that last week. 02:58.933 --> 03:01.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Jeffrey Goldberg: Right. Eugene? 03:01.166 --> 03:03.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Eugene Daniels, White House Correspondent, Politico: Yes, I mean it felt like -- you're so 03:03.533 --> 03:06.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% right. It felt like he was, one, a comedian doing those videos where they're like do crowd work, 03:06.933 --> 03:11.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% right, like you like really get excited playing with them and fighting and going back and forth, 03:11.300 --> 03:16.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% but also it felt like a president who had finally decided to run an election 03:16.300 --> 03:19.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and be the president of the time we have now, not the time when he was a senator, 03:19.733 --> 03:24.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% when everyone was like nice to each other and you can disagree in front of the cameras 03:24.400 --> 03:29.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but you work together behind the scenes. Those days are gone. He has accepted that. 03:29.033 --> 03:33.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And when I talked to Jeff Zients, the chief of staff, on Wednesday the day before, 03:33.666 --> 03:37.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% he kind of raised expectations, I thought. I was a little worried for him, because he was like, 03:37.800 --> 03:40.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I was like, it seems like a big speech, like, you know, we have, it's an election year, 03:40.433 --> 03:43.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% this is the biggest crowd he's going to get. And he was like, yes, and he's 03:43.100 --> 03:46.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% going to do great. And I was like, oh, okay. Because, usually, they try to temper it down. 03:46.633 --> 03:51.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But because Republicans, for years, have been saying, basically, that this man has dementia, 03:53.700 --> 03:56.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% like when that's the bar, then anything above that is going to be much better. And 03:56.066 --> 04:00.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think President Biden loves these kinds of interactions. When you travel with him, 04:00.333 --> 04:04.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as you have done as well, any kind of column response, whether good or bad, 04:04.600 --> 04:08.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% that is what he likes to do. And he -- this was also for Democrats. 04:08.433 --> 04:10.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Jeffrey Goldberg: And he's better at it than people think. 04:10.333 --> 04:12.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Eugene Daniels: And, I mean, the Democrats have wanted to see this from him, 04:12.333 --> 04:16.766 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% not just like we want to see him have energy, they want to see a fight, right? 04:16.766 --> 04:20.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Asma Khalid: Yes, I agree. This was a speech more for Democrats. I don't think it was a persuasion. 04:20.033 --> 04:25.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Jeffrey Goldberg: Right, right. Carlos, you're watching this. You've been studying Biden, 04:26.700 --> 04:31.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% reading Biden for years. What are the deeper themes that struck you? 04:33.166 --> 04:35.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Carlos Lozada: You know, people are saying that we saw, you know, Feisty Joe or Angry 04:35.300 --> 04:40.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Joe or Rowdy Joe. I saw History Joe. You know, think about where he started the speech right 04:42.400 --> 04:46.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at the beginning. The first thing he puts us in, the 1940s, with FDR, you know, maybe not 04:48.466 --> 04:51.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a smart move when we're worried about his age, but he puts the 1940s, FDR defending democracy 04:51.533 --> 04:56.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% with Europe at war and Hitler on the march, right? Then immediately pivots to the Civil War, 04:58.666 --> 05:01.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and we're with Lincoln, you know, protecting democracy and freedom at home. That's in the 05:01.233 --> 05:05.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% first two minutes of the speech. We've already gone through FDR and Lincoln. 05:05.133 --> 05:10.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Later on, we're with Reagan, you know, calling for Mr. Gorbachev to tear down the wall, 05:11.933 --> 05:15.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? He was implicitly, explicitly putting our moment in comparison 05:17.533 --> 05:21.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to those moments and kind of putting himself in that pantheon of presidents. 05:23.800 --> 05:27.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% You know, he kept saying, history is watching us, right? It sounded almost like Hamilton or 05:27.066 --> 05:32.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% something. But he is comfortable in that zone. And I think he thinks this election 05:34.833 --> 05:39.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% is similar in the sense that it's, you know, a big historical pivot moment. He 05:39.266 --> 05:43.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% always talks about inflection points. And so it's not just sort of beating Trump, 05:43.800 --> 05:48.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% he feels that he's, you know, defending American values and American freedoms against Trumpism. 05:50.833 --> 05:54.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Eugene Daniels: But he also made very clear what the topics of his in the center point 05:54.300 --> 05:58.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% of his re-election is going to be both democracy and Dobbs, right? When you talk that first like 05:58.900 --> 06:03.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% five to ten minutes he talked about January 6th, he talked about and spent a lot of time talking 06:06.033 --> 06:09.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% about that insurrection, he talked about IVF and abortion without saying abortion. I will say 06:09.400 --> 06:14.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% many abortion advocates were very upset for him with him not saying the word, abortion, actions. 06:16.400 --> 06:20.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And despite it being in the remarks that were sent out to us before his -- so it 06:21.900 --> 06:23.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% was in the speech at some point he didn't say, so they're very upset 06:23.900 --> 06:27.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% about that but Dobbs and democracy is what this election is about for this campaign. 06:27.066 --> 06:30.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Jeffrey Goldberg: Right. Asma, he didn't say the word, Trump, either. He said, my predecessor. 06:30.600 --> 06:32.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Asma Khalid: About a dozen times, he said, my predecessor. 06:32.566 --> 06:34.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes, why is that? 06:34.833 --> 06:37.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Asma Khalid: You know, I don't know. That's an interesting question. Why not? I mean, I think 06:37.300 --> 06:41.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% part of this is just Joe Biden's style. Like he's not one, especially in -- and he believes, 06:41.433 --> 06:46.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and I think, the structure of these institutions and the decorum of this type of event, 06:48.566 --> 06:51.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the State of the Union. And so I don't think it's a venue or a place where he would do that. 06:51.733 --> 06:54.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% But I do think it was an interesting characterization for him to choose 06:54.933 --> 06:58.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% not to go after Trump by name. I think we will certainly see him 06:58.433 --> 07:01.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% go after Trump by name. But in this particular venue, State of the Union, 07:01.400 --> 07:06.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think he believes that there still ought to be a level of kind of, yes, decorum. 07:06.200 --> 07:09.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes. But, Carlos, going back to your point, the reason that he thinks this 07:09.300 --> 07:14.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is so historically significant is because he believes that Trump is anti-democratic, 07:16.333 --> 07:19.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? And so that's the first and foremost thing on his mind. Is that fair to say? 07:21.866 --> 07:25.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Carlos Lozada: If you look at the two videos with which he opened his two presidential campaigns, 07:26.866 --> 07:30.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% most recent presidential campaigns, 2020 and 2024, you know, it's all 07:30.600 --> 07:35.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% about protecting the soul of America. That's an essay he wrote for The Atlantic as well. 07:36.466 --> 07:38.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And in the first instance -- 07:38.300 --> 07:39.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Jeffrey Goldberg: Thank you for the plug. Carlos Lozada: I'm here to serve. 07:39.866 --> 07:42.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Jeffrey Goldberg: A selfless New York Times man over here. 07:42.266 --> 07:47.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Carlos Lozada: In the first instance it was about protecting the soul of America in the 07:48.633 --> 07:50.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% context of Charlottesville, right? In the second, 07:50.766 --> 07:54.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it was about protecting the soul of America in the context of January 6th. You know, 07:54.300 --> 07:57.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% so this is -- thematically, this is absolutely one of the big themes. 07:57.666 --> 08:01.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, you know, sometimes people tell him that it's not something he should be focused on, 08:01.400 --> 08:05.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that it's too ethereal, what does that really mean, what's the soul of America stuff anyway, 08:05.833 --> 08:07.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but it's something that he seems very devoted to. 08:07.966 --> 08:10.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Asma Khalid: It's something he seems very devoted to, but I will say I still remain 08:10.466 --> 08:14.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% somewhat skeptical about how much it actually means something tangible to 08:14.133 --> 08:17.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% voters. Because when you go out and you talk to voters, you hear about the economy, 08:17.233 --> 08:21.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you hear about abortion. Once in a while, you hear about democracy, but to your point, 08:21.500 --> 08:25.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% this administration, this White House believes very firmly that it is a winning message. 08:25.233 --> 08:29.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Jeffrey Goldberg: Right. Let me pivot to the Republican response 08:29.266 --> 08:32.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to the -- and let's keep a straight face, please, 08:32.033 --> 08:35.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because we're a very serious show here. I want to pivot to the Republican response, 08:35.833 --> 08:40.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Senator Katie Britt of Alabama. Why don't you just listen to this one brief snippet. 08:43.433 --> 08:48.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Sen. Katie Britt (R-AL): This is the United States of America and it is past time in my 08:48.100 --> 08:53.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% opinion that we start acting like it. President Biden's border policies are a 08:56.900 --> 09:01.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% disgrace. This crisis is despicable and the truth is it is almost entirely preventable. 09:09.933 --> 09:14.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Jeffrey Goldberg: So, yes, I mean, you know, the thing is, she is a pretty well-respected person, 09:17.700 --> 09:22.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% pretty well-respected in Alabama, politics. You know, I guess people in Washington know 09:25.000 --> 09:29.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that the first rule of Fight Club is never give the response to the State of the Union Address, 09:29.633 --> 09:34.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% right? Nobody -- very seldom does somebody really perform well, but what was going on there? 09:36.566 --> 09:39.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Eugene Daniels: I mean, first of all, Katie Britt is a very talented politician, 09:39.066 --> 09:44.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? When you talk to her on the Hill or you watch videos of her and interviews of her, 09:44.033 --> 09:47.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% she doesn't sound like that at all, right? Like so that was part of the problem. 09:47.900 --> 09:52.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There was a clip that they sent out. She sent out on her own Twitter/X. And she's just like, 09:54.566 --> 09:56.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% hey, guys, I'm doing the State of the Union. She doesn't sound like that. 09:56.833 --> 10:00.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so, one, if you know what she sounds like, 10:00.000 --> 10:05.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% it sounds kind of extremely overwrought. But then even if you don't, it's just kind of awkward, 10:06.866 --> 10:10.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? She is by herself. She -- which is kind of always how they're doing. 10:10.233 --> 10:13.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% It's after the pomp and circumstance of the president of the United States. 10:13.533 --> 10:17.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But then there was -- the things she was saying was one thing, 10:17.133 --> 10:20.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? I think Republicans were happy about that. I heard from a lot of Republican women, 10:20.900 --> 10:25.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they were upset about the kitchen aspect of it, of this woman being in the kitchen, 10:25.200 --> 10:28.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but then it was the biting off of the words. It was the kind of -- kind of 10:28.900 --> 10:32.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the themes were all kind of all over the place. And it just felt awkward to people. 10:32.833 --> 10:36.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And I think, you know, I don't know why people keep doing these. I would 10:36.833 --> 10:41.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% never sign up if I was a politician to do the response to the State of the Union, 10:41.333 --> 10:45.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because it has -- I don't think it's ever worked out. I can't think of one where it's been, oh, 10:45.866 --> 10:49.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this is the next step for this person in their trajectory. 10:49.866 --> 10:54.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Jeffrey Goldberg: Carlos, this reminded me of the American carnage speech, 10:54.066 --> 10:58.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Donald Trump's inaugural speech. It's American carnage but with a high-end 10:58.033 --> 11:03.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% backsplash. It was kind of a very strange - - put this in some kind of context for us. 11:05.300 --> 11:08.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Carlos Lozada: It was a very jarring speech because the two sort of themes were the speech was 11:10.633 --> 11:14.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% meant to both terrify you and comfort you, right, at the same time. And those kind of clash, right? 11:16.600 --> 11:20.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So, you know, the fear factor was pretty clear. It's like, you know, Americans are being raped and 11:23.066 --> 11:25.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% murdered and your kids could be next, right? I'm not exaggerating. That's the tenor of this speech. 11:27.933 --> 11:30.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it reminded me both of American carnage, which was Trump's inaugural speech, 11:30.733 --> 11:35.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but also went back to his very first speech as a candidate in 2015 when, 11:37.866 --> 11:40.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you know, he said Mexicans -- Mexico is not sending their best, they're sending rapists, 11:40.033 --> 11:44.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% right? And this was sort of that, but like amped up even further. 11:44.266 --> 11:46.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Jeffrey Goldberg: There was a lot of rape content in this. 11:46.500 --> 11:48.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Carlos Lozada: Yes, a lot of specificity. 11:48.766 --> 11:51.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Asma Khalid: I think it was strange because she was chosen in many ways because of who she is, 11:51.066 --> 11:56.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% a millennial Republican mom who could be a symbolic counterpoint to, 11:57.300 --> 11:59.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as she described, the dithering, you know, 11:59.633 --> 12:03.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% President Biden. That is explicitly her words that she used, a dithering, diminished Biden. 12:03.266 --> 12:08.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And yet I think that she was not really emblematic of where a whole bunch of women of her age are. I 12:10.366 --> 12:12.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% mean, there could have been an opportunity, I think, thread the needle a little bit more 12:12.733 --> 12:16.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% carefully and maybe the only moment she did that in was when she spoke about wanting to defend IVF.