1 00:00:02,366 --> 00:00:05,000 Good evening, and welcome to Washington Week. Last night's State of the Union proved that Joe Biden, 2 00:00:06,966 --> 00:00:09,900 despite his advanced age, can still deliver an impassioned speech, but it's not yet 3 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:14,900 clear that voters, many of whom think he's simply too old to run, will get on board. 4 00:00:16,366 --> 00:00:18,166 Of course, it's not clear at all that Donald Trump, weighted down 5 00:00:18,166 --> 00:00:22,300 by something more consequential than age, namely 91 felony charges, 6 00:00:22,300 --> 00:00:27,133 will be able to convince all but his most loyal followers that he deserves to be president again. 7 00:00:27,133 --> 00:00:32,133 Joining me tonight to discuss all this and more, Eugene Daniels, a White House correspondent for 8 00:00:34,366 --> 00:00:37,700 Politico and co-author of Politico's Playbook, Asma Khalid is a White House correspondent for 9 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,033 NPR and a political contributor for ABC News, and Carlos Lozada is a columnist for The New York 10 00:00:45,333 --> 00:00:48,933 Times. He is also the author of The Washington Book. Thank you very much for being here. Carlos, 11 00:00:50,766 --> 00:00:54,766 welcome. Your first time on Washington Week? Big time, it's a big time thing. 12 00:00:54,766 --> 00:00:56,500 Carlos Lozada, Columnist, The New York Times: Big fan. 13 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:59,466 Jeffrey Goldberg: Well, first time caller. We're very happy to have 14 00:00:59,466 --> 00:01:02,066 you here and congratulations on your book. We'll talk about it in a minute. 15 00:01:03,733 --> 00:01:05,900 I want to talk about the State of the Union. Before we talk about it, 16 00:01:05,900 --> 00:01:10,900 I want you to just watch a brief excerpt from Joe Biden's performance last night. 17 00:01:12,833 --> 00:01:17,166 Joe Biden, U.S. President: The issue facing our nation isn't how old we are, 18 00:01:19,266 --> 00:01:22,333 it's how old our ideas. Hate, anger, revenge, retribution are the oldest of ideas. But you 19 00:01:24,700 --> 00:01:29,700 can't lead America with ancient ideas. It will only take us back. You lead America, 20 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,633 the land of possibilities, you need a vision for the future and what can and should be done. 21 00:01:37,566 --> 00:01:41,133 Jeffrey Goldberg: So, Asma, I'm struck by this. A lot of people were struck 22 00:01:41,133 --> 00:01:45,233 by the sheer level of energy that he was bringing. Part of it was because we had 23 00:01:45,233 --> 00:01:50,200 been told by the Republicans that he's practically on his deathbed. Part of it 24 00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:56,533 was because we've all noticed that sometimes his voice doesn't project in the way that it 25 00:01:56,533 --> 00:02:01,500 used to. It was a very, very energetic, impassioned performance. Give us your -- 26 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,600 Asma Khalid, White House Correspondent, NPR: That's true. And, you know, certainly, 27 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,433 there were some moments where he stumbled, but I would also say he was interrupted multiple 28 00:02:08,433 --> 00:02:12,300 times by different hecklers, and he had no qualms. In fact, he seemed to enjoy these 29 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:17,100 moments of sparring with Republicans, whether it was on taxes, Social Security, immigration. 30 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:20,600 But what I was really struck by is, if you compare this speech to his previous 31 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,900 state of the unions, there was more of an undercurrent of unity, working together, 32 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:28,733 big legislative achievements. This was very different. It was a campaign speech. 33 00:02:28,733 --> 00:02:32,466 It was the kickoff of a general election campaign. And it was a clear contrast from 34 00:02:32,466 --> 00:02:36,300 Republicans on everything, from abortion to immigration to the economy. And to me, 35 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:40,066 the most interesting part, I know it didn't get a lot of headlines, was actually the economy. 36 00:02:40,066 --> 00:02:43,900 I think that this is a real vulnerability for President Biden. When you look at poll 37 00:02:43,900 --> 00:02:47,466 after poll Republicans have, you know, somewhere between like 15 to 38 00:02:47,466 --> 00:02:51,900 even 20 percent of an advantage on the economy. One pollster I talked to said, 39 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:56,366 like Democratic pollster, said Democrats win the presidential when they breakeven on the 40 00:02:56,366 --> 00:02:58,933 economy. And so Biden has work to do. And I think you heard some of that last week. 41 00:02:58,933 --> 00:03:01,166 Jeffrey Goldberg: Right. Eugene? 42 00:03:01,166 --> 00:03:03,533 Eugene Daniels, White House Correspondent, Politico: Yes, I mean it felt like -- you're so 43 00:03:03,533 --> 00:03:06,933 right. It felt like he was, one, a comedian doing those videos where they're like do crowd work, 44 00:03:06,933 --> 00:03:11,300 right, like you like really get excited playing with them and fighting and going back and forth, 45 00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:16,300 but also it felt like a president who had finally decided to run an election 46 00:03:16,300 --> 00:03:19,733 and be the president of the time we have now, not the time when he was a senator, 47 00:03:19,733 --> 00:03:24,400 when everyone was like nice to each other and you can disagree in front of the cameras 48 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,033 but you work together behind the scenes. Those days are gone. He has accepted that. 49 00:03:29,033 --> 00:03:33,666 And when I talked to Jeff Zients, the chief of staff, on Wednesday the day before, 50 00:03:33,666 --> 00:03:37,800 he kind of raised expectations, I thought. I was a little worried for him, because he was like, 51 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,433 I was like, it seems like a big speech, like, you know, we have, it's an election year, 52 00:03:40,433 --> 00:03:43,100 this is the biggest crowd he's going to get. And he was like, yes, and he's 53 00:03:43,100 --> 00:03:46,633 going to do great. And I was like, oh, okay. Because, usually, they try to temper it down. 54 00:03:46,633 --> 00:03:51,633 But because Republicans, for years, have been saying, basically, that this man has dementia, 55 00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:56,066 like when that's the bar, then anything above that is going to be much better. And 56 00:03:56,066 --> 00:04:00,333 I think President Biden loves these kinds of interactions. When you travel with him, 57 00:04:00,333 --> 00:04:04,600 as you have done as well, any kind of column response, whether good or bad, 58 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,433 that is what he likes to do. And he -- this was also for Democrats. 59 00:04:08,433 --> 00:04:10,333 Jeffrey Goldberg: And he's better at it than people think. 60 00:04:10,333 --> 00:04:12,333 Eugene Daniels: And, I mean, the Democrats have wanted to see this from him, 61 00:04:12,333 --> 00:04:16,766 not just like we want to see him have energy, they want to see a fight, right? 62 00:04:16,766 --> 00:04:20,033 Asma Khalid: Yes, I agree. This was a speech more for Democrats. I don't think it was a persuasion. 63 00:04:20,033 --> 00:04:25,033 Jeffrey Goldberg: Right, right. Carlos, you're watching this. You've been studying Biden, 64 00:04:26,700 --> 00:04:31,133 reading Biden for years. What are the deeper themes that struck you? 65 00:04:33,166 --> 00:04:35,300 Carlos Lozada: You know, people are saying that we saw, you know, Feisty Joe or Angry 66 00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:40,300 Joe or Rowdy Joe. I saw History Joe. You know, think about where he started the speech right 67 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,333 at the beginning. The first thing he puts us in, the 1940s, with FDR, you know, maybe not 68 00:04:48,466 --> 00:04:51,533 a smart move when we're worried about his age, but he puts the 1940s, FDR defending democracy 69 00:04:51,533 --> 00:04:56,533 with Europe at war and Hitler on the march, right? Then immediately pivots to the Civil War, 70 00:04:58,666 --> 00:05:01,233 and we're with Lincoln, you know, protecting democracy and freedom at home. That's in the 71 00:05:01,233 --> 00:05:05,133 first two minutes of the speech. We've already gone through FDR and Lincoln. 72 00:05:05,133 --> 00:05:10,133 Later on, we're with Reagan, you know, calling for Mr. Gorbachev to tear down the wall, 73 00:05:11,933 --> 00:05:15,666 right? He was implicitly, explicitly putting our moment in comparison 74 00:05:17,533 --> 00:05:21,533 to those moments and kind of putting himself in that pantheon of presidents. 75 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,066 You know, he kept saying, history is watching us, right? It sounded almost like Hamilton or 76 00:05:27,066 --> 00:05:32,066 something. But he is comfortable in that zone. And I think he thinks this election 77 00:05:34,833 --> 00:05:39,266 is similar in the sense that it's, you know, a big historical pivot moment. He 78 00:05:39,266 --> 00:05:43,800 always talks about inflection points. And so it's not just sort of beating Trump, 79 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,800 he feels that he's, you know, defending American values and American freedoms against Trumpism. 80 00:05:50,833 --> 00:05:54,300 Eugene Daniels: But he also made very clear what the topics of his in the center point 81 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:58,900 of his re-election is going to be both democracy and Dobbs, right? When you talk that first like 82 00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:03,900 five to ten minutes he talked about January 6th, he talked about and spent a lot of time talking 83 00:06:06,033 --> 00:06:09,400 about that insurrection, he talked about IVF and abortion without saying abortion. I will say 84 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,400 many abortion advocates were very upset for him with him not saying the word, abortion, actions. 85 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,100 And despite it being in the remarks that were sent out to us before his -- so it 86 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:23,900 was in the speech at some point he didn't say, so they're very upset 87 00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:27,066 about that but Dobbs and democracy is what this election is about for this campaign. 88 00:06:27,066 --> 00:06:30,600 Jeffrey Goldberg: Right. Asma, he didn't say the word, Trump, either. He said, my predecessor. 89 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,566 Asma Khalid: About a dozen times, he said, my predecessor. 90 00:06:32,566 --> 00:06:34,833 Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes, why is that? 91 00:06:34,833 --> 00:06:37,300 Asma Khalid: You know, I don't know. That's an interesting question. Why not? I mean, I think 92 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:41,433 part of this is just Joe Biden's style. Like he's not one, especially in -- and he believes, 93 00:06:41,433 --> 00:06:46,433 and I think, the structure of these institutions and the decorum of this type of event, 94 00:06:48,566 --> 00:06:51,733 the State of the Union. And so I don't think it's a venue or a place where he would do that. 95 00:06:51,733 --> 00:06:54,933 But I do think it was an interesting characterization for him to choose 96 00:06:54,933 --> 00:06:58,433 not to go after Trump by name. I think we will certainly see him 97 00:06:58,433 --> 00:07:01,400 go after Trump by name. But in this particular venue, State of the Union, 98 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:06,200 I think he believes that there still ought to be a level of kind of, yes, decorum. 99 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,300 Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes. But, Carlos, going back to your point, the reason that he thinks this 100 00:07:09,300 --> 00:07:14,300 is so historically significant is because he believes that Trump is anti-democratic, 101 00:07:16,333 --> 00:07:19,600 right? And so that's the first and foremost thing on his mind. Is that fair to say? 102 00:07:21,866 --> 00:07:25,100 Carlos Lozada: If you look at the two videos with which he opened his two presidential campaigns, 103 00:07:26,866 --> 00:07:30,600 most recent presidential campaigns, 2020 and 2024, you know, it's all 104 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,600 about protecting the soul of America. That's an essay he wrote for The Atlantic as well. 105 00:07:36,466 --> 00:07:38,300 And in the first instance -- 106 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:39,866 Jeffrey Goldberg: Thank you for the plug. Carlos Lozada: I'm here to serve. 107 00:07:39,866 --> 00:07:42,266 Jeffrey Goldberg: A selfless New York Times man over here. 108 00:07:42,266 --> 00:07:47,266 Carlos Lozada: In the first instance it was about protecting the soul of America in the 109 00:07:48,633 --> 00:07:50,766 context of Charlottesville, right? In the second, 110 00:07:50,766 --> 00:07:54,300 it was about protecting the soul of America in the context of January 6th. You know, 111 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:57,666 so this is -- thematically, this is absolutely one of the big themes. 112 00:07:57,666 --> 00:08:01,400 And, you know, sometimes people tell him that it's not something he should be focused on, 113 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,833 that it's too ethereal, what does that really mean, what's the soul of America stuff anyway, 114 00:08:05,833 --> 00:08:07,966 but it's something that he seems very devoted to. 115 00:08:07,966 --> 00:08:10,466 Asma Khalid: It's something he seems very devoted to, but I will say I still remain 116 00:08:10,466 --> 00:08:14,133 somewhat skeptical about how much it actually means something tangible to 117 00:08:14,133 --> 00:08:17,233 voters. Because when you go out and you talk to voters, you hear about the economy, 118 00:08:17,233 --> 00:08:21,500 you hear about abortion. Once in a while, you hear about democracy, but to your point, 119 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:25,233 this administration, this White House believes very firmly that it is a winning message. 120 00:08:25,233 --> 00:08:29,266 Jeffrey Goldberg: Right. Let me pivot to the Republican response 121 00:08:29,266 --> 00:08:32,033 to the -- and let's keep a straight face, please, 122 00:08:32,033 --> 00:08:35,833 because we're a very serious show here. I want to pivot to the Republican response, 123 00:08:35,833 --> 00:08:40,833 Senator Katie Britt of Alabama. Why don't you just listen to this one brief snippet. 124 00:08:43,433 --> 00:08:48,100 Sen. Katie Britt (R-AL): This is the United States of America and it is past time in my 125 00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:53,100 opinion that we start acting like it. President Biden's border policies are a 126 00:08:56,900 --> 00:09:01,900 disgrace. This crisis is despicable and the truth is it is almost entirely preventable. 127 00:09:09,933 --> 00:09:14,933 Jeffrey Goldberg: So, yes, I mean, you know, the thing is, she is a pretty well-respected person, 128 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:22,700 pretty well-respected in Alabama, politics. You know, I guess people in Washington know 129 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,633 that the first rule of Fight Club is never give the response to the State of the Union Address, 130 00:09:29,633 --> 00:09:34,633 right? Nobody -- very seldom does somebody really perform well, but what was going on there? 131 00:09:36,566 --> 00:09:39,066 Eugene Daniels: I mean, first of all, Katie Britt is a very talented politician, 132 00:09:39,066 --> 00:09:44,033 right? When you talk to her on the Hill or you watch videos of her and interviews of her, 133 00:09:44,033 --> 00:09:47,900 she doesn't sound like that at all, right? Like so that was part of the problem. 134 00:09:47,900 --> 00:09:52,900 There was a clip that they sent out. She sent out on her own Twitter/X. And she's just like, 135 00:09:54,566 --> 00:09:56,833 hey, guys, I'm doing the State of the Union. She doesn't sound like that. 136 00:09:56,833 --> 00:10:00,000 And so, one, if you know what she sounds like, 137 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,000 it sounds kind of extremely overwrought. But then even if you don't, it's just kind of awkward, 138 00:10:06,866 --> 00:10:10,233 right? She is by herself. She -- which is kind of always how they're doing. 139 00:10:10,233 --> 00:10:13,533 It's after the pomp and circumstance of the president of the United States. 140 00:10:13,533 --> 00:10:17,133 But then there was -- the things she was saying was one thing, 141 00:10:17,133 --> 00:10:20,900 right? I think Republicans were happy about that. I heard from a lot of Republican women, 142 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:25,200 they were upset about the kitchen aspect of it, of this woman being in the kitchen, 143 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,900 but then it was the biting off of the words. It was the kind of -- kind of 144 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:32,833 the themes were all kind of all over the place. And it just felt awkward to people. 145 00:10:32,833 --> 00:10:36,833 And I think, you know, I don't know why people keep doing these. I would 146 00:10:36,833 --> 00:10:41,333 never sign up if I was a politician to do the response to the State of the Union, 147 00:10:41,333 --> 00:10:45,866 because it has -- I don't think it's ever worked out. I can't think of one where it's been, oh, 148 00:10:45,866 --> 00:10:49,866 this is the next step for this person in their trajectory. 149 00:10:49,866 --> 00:10:54,066 Jeffrey Goldberg: Carlos, this reminded me of the American carnage speech, 150 00:10:54,066 --> 00:10:58,033 Donald Trump's inaugural speech. It's American carnage but with a high-end 151 00:10:58,033 --> 00:11:03,000 backsplash. It was kind of a very strange - - put this in some kind of context for us. 152 00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:08,266 Carlos Lozada: It was a very jarring speech because the two sort of themes were the speech was 153 00:11:10,633 --> 00:11:14,266 meant to both terrify you and comfort you, right, at the same time. And those kind of clash, right? 154 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,700 So, you know, the fear factor was pretty clear. It's like, you know, Americans are being raped and 155 00:11:23,066 --> 00:11:25,933 murdered and your kids could be next, right? I'm not exaggerating. That's the tenor of this speech. 156 00:11:27,933 --> 00:11:30,733 And it reminded me both of American carnage, which was Trump's inaugural speech, 157 00:11:30,733 --> 00:11:35,733 but also went back to his very first speech as a candidate in 2015 when, 158 00:11:37,866 --> 00:11:40,033 you know, he said Mexicans -- Mexico is not sending their best, they're sending rapists, 159 00:11:40,033 --> 00:11:44,266 right? And this was sort of that, but like amped up even further. 160 00:11:44,266 --> 00:11:46,500 Jeffrey Goldberg: There was a lot of rape content in this. 161 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,766 Carlos Lozada: Yes, a lot of specificity. 162 00:11:48,766 --> 00:11:51,066 Asma Khalid: I think it was strange because she was chosen in many ways because of who she is, 163 00:11:51,066 --> 00:11:56,033 a millennial Republican mom who could be a symbolic counterpoint to, 164 00:11:57,300 --> 00:11:59,633 as she described, the dithering, you know, 165 00:11:59,633 --> 00:12:03,266 President Biden. That is explicitly her words that she used, a dithering, diminished Biden. 166 00:12:03,266 --> 00:12:08,266 And yet I think that she was not really emblematic of where a whole bunch of women of her age are. I 167 00:12:10,366 --> 00:12:12,733 mean, there could have been an opportunity, I think, thread the needle a little bit more 168 00:12:12,733 --> 00:12:16,600 carefully and maybe the only moment she did that in was when she spoke about wanting to defend IVF.