WEBVTT 00:02.100 --> 00:04.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The race for the White House is deadlocked, and with two and a half weeks to go before 00:04.100 --> 00:07.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Election Day, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are running out of time to win over 00:07.800 --> 00:12.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% undecided voters and dramatically alter the trajectory of what's becoming a more intense, 00:13.966 --> 00:17.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% aggressive, and sometimes bizarre contest. 00:17.600 --> 00:21.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Joining me tonight to discuss this and more, Peter Baker, 00:21.133 --> 00:25.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% the chief White House correspondent at The New York Times, Francesca Chambers 00:25.333 --> 00:30.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is a White House correspondent for USA Today, Susan Glasser is a staff writer 00:30.066 --> 00:35.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at The New Yorker, and Vivian Salama is a political reporter for The Wall Street Journal. 00:37.166 --> 00:41.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Susan, I want to ask a question about what the kids call the vibes. It feels like there's not 00:43.533 --> 00:48.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% a tsunami of excitement overwhelming us right now. Are we sleepwalking into this election? 00:50.666 --> 00:53.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SUSAN GLASSER, Staff Writer, The New Yorker: You know, Frank, eight years into the Trump 00:53.666 --> 00:58.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% era in American politics, we're still asking and not yet answering the same question. You know, 01:00.800 --> 01:04.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is Donald Trump, who's broken every norm of American politics, of the American presidency, 01:06.533 --> 01:10.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% really going to be the first president in more than a century to be returned to power despite 01:12.666 --> 01:15.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% everything? And what's remarkable right now is that there is at least an even chance, 01:15.733 --> 01:18.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% if not better than an even chance, of that happening. 01:18.600 --> 01:23.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And yet this vibe that you're talking about, you know, we've lost the summer of joy. It 01:23.333 --> 01:28.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% seems to me we've moved way beyond that. Kamala Harris is no longer making fun of Donald Trump 01:30.533 --> 01:33.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and saying he's weird. She's saying he's a threat to democracy, as we know it. And Trump 01:36.166 --> 01:39.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% has escalated his rhetoric in a way that seems determined to prove the point that she's making. 01:41.100 --> 01:44.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: Yes. Just how do you account for that apathy? 01:44.166 --> 01:48.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% SUSAN GLASSER: You know, Trump fatigue, I guess, is a real thing. You know, 01:48.100 --> 01:53.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% we've been overwhelmed with a fugue of lies and misinformation and scandal and 01:55.266 --> 01:58.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% disinformation for so long, we all know people who've just tuned out of that until perhaps just 02:01.033 --> 02:05.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% now. Democrats, I have noticed a very marked shift just in the last couple of weeks, 02:07.166 --> 02:10.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a dawning realization that a Trump second term is a true possibility. My question is, 02:12.500 --> 02:16.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% is this realization coming too late for them in the election cycle? 02:18.333 --> 02:21.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: Vivian, I just want to double check what Susan said and get your sense because, 02:23.333 --> 02:26.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% clearly, within Democratic circles, there's a lot of handwringing about the election 02:26.233 --> 02:29.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and implied in what she said or what she actually said is that Donald Trump has the 02:29.933 --> 02:34.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% upper hand right now headed into this last stretch of the election. Do you think that that's right? 02:34.300 --> 02:36.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% VIVIAN SALAMA, National Politics Reporter, The Wall Street Journal: I spoke to a top 02:36.533 --> 02:41.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump official just before the show, actually, and he told me they're cautiously optimistic. 02:41.066 --> 02:45.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% At this point, they see the polls working in their favor to an extent. Obviously, 02:47.666 --> 02:51.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you know, it's anyone's race at this point, but he does have a slight advantage in most 02:53.733 --> 02:56.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% of the swing states at this point. They do feel that he's in a comfortable position. And that's 02:56.166 --> 03:00.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% reflected in the type of events that he's done just in the past week, but also in the coming 03:00.166 --> 03:05.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% week, where a lot of it is more sort of splash here, big media events and not necessarily 03:07.200 --> 03:11.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% directly targeted at a particular strategy. They're looking to just get him out there, 03:13.300 --> 03:17.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% get as many people as possible and just amplify his shtick, if you will, 03:19.366 --> 03:24.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% without necessarily honing in on any particular groups. And that's where we are at this stage. 03:25.400 --> 03:27.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: Wait, does anybody disagree with 03:27.200 --> 03:29.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Trump having the upper hand right now or do we all -- your consensus? 03:29.400 --> 03:31.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% PETER BAKER, Chief White House Correspondent, The New York Times: Well, with all respect, 03:31.533 --> 03:34.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, I know the vibe is the vibe, but the truth is, like it was a tie a month ago, 03:34.700 --> 03:39.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it's a tie today. And nature of horror is a vacuum. And the political media class 03:41.700 --> 03:43.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of horror is a static story. But that's what we've got. We've got a static story. 03:43.700 --> 03:47.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% So, we look for small changes in the polls. It's a point here, a point there, 03:47.066 --> 03:50.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and we're trying to make large conclusions out of it. I think the honest truth is we 03:50.500 --> 03:52.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% don't know. We're not going to know for two more weeks. We might as well go to 03:52.800 --> 03:56.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% sleep for two weeks and wake up on Election Day because that's when we'll start to really know. 03:56.666 --> 03:59.966 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% But the truth is, we're not changing anybody's mind at this point. People 03:59.966 --> 04:03.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have made up their minds. There's a small number of people out there who 04:03.266 --> 04:07.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% may yet be winnable by Kamala Harris who otherwise probably won't vote, 04:07.400 --> 04:11.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% they're not going to go to Trump. He's not gaining any voters, he's not losing any voters, 04:11.500 --> 04:15.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it's all about whether she can get those small number of people who voted for Biden last time, 04:15.833 --> 04:19.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not because they were Democrats maybe, not because they liked Biden maybe, but because 04:19.466 --> 04:22.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they didn't like Trump. And she's out there now reminding them why they didn't like Trump, 04:22.866 --> 04:27.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in a sort of belated way, making that contrast the last part of her pitch to the audience. 04:29.566 --> 04:31.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% FRANKLIN FOER: It would just have - - I mean, you only look spry, 04:31.733 --> 04:35.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but I think you have a great beard, and just play the role of historian and compare this to 04:35.266 --> 04:40.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% where we sat in the races in 2016 and 2020. It feels Different than those campaigns. 04:42.166 --> 04:46.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% BAKER: It does. Well, in 2016, obviously, Democrats were somewhat overconfident, 04:46.133 --> 04:49.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% right? They thought they had in the bag. Everybody assumed, including the media, 04:49.333 --> 04:52.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that Hillary Clinton was definitely going to win. Now, obviously, that last-minute intervention by 04:52.800 --> 04:57.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% James Comey on the emails changed the dynamics in the last few days. But there was, clearly, 04:57.200 --> 05:00.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you could argue, some complacency they didn't necessarily know what's going to happen and 05:00.433 --> 05:05.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they didn't necessarily see Trump as the threat that today's Democrats do, right? They didn't 05:05.100 --> 05:08.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% necessarily see him as a threat to democracy. Today's Democrats have no doubt about that. 05:08.900 --> 05:12.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In 2020, Biden had the upper hand most of the time. I think most people felt like 05:12.666 --> 05:16.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he was probably going to hang on. He had a better lead going into the Election Day than 05:16.400 --> 05:21.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% he actually came out of Election Day. So, there are two maybe over overestimating it. But today, 05:23.466 --> 05:25.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we feel very different than either of those elections because it is tight as a tick. 05:25.533 --> 05:29.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: Just how much you both covered, Susan, Peter, you both were in Russia 05:29.800 --> 05:34.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% after the fall of the Soviet Union. You saw what post-communist life looked like, 05:34.133 --> 05:35.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% political life looked like, Anne Applebaum, I should guess, and 05:37.733 --> 05:41.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% they keep warning us about that the apathy that emerges when a figure like 05:41.533 --> 05:46.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump confronts us. Does it feel like we're repeating that type of cycle? 05:46.100 --> 05:48.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SUSAN GLASSER: Listen, I would say this if there's anybody in 05:48.533 --> 05:52.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% America who's not aware of the stakes at this moment of time, 05:52.500 --> 05:57.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think it's more the exhaustion than it is a lack of awareness, Frank. But I'll tell you, 05:57.100 --> 06:02.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Peter and I lived through Vladimir Putin's rollback of Russian democracy 20 years ago, his 06:04.233 --> 06:07.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% first few years. And the time to defend democratic institutions is before they're taken away. 06:10.033 --> 06:14.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that's where I'm really -- I am stunned in particular. Look at the specificity with which 06:14.833 --> 06:19.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Donald Trump has promised mass deportations, with which he and his advisers have said they 06:21.933 --> 06:25.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% would round up a million people and put them in camps They've actually used that phrasing. 06:27.533 --> 06:30.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And I remember in January of 2017 the absolute hysteria and shock that greeted Donald Trump's 06:33.666 --> 06:38.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Muslim ban just on seven countries. What is it going to feel like in this country on the 06:40.533 --> 06:44.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% first weekend of the Trump presidency in January of next year when people are 06:46.366 --> 06:49.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% being arrested and camps are being opened and it's going to be a level of hysteria. 06:51.666 --> 06:54.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I don't think that people have really processed how quickly this can happen 06:54.300 --> 06:59.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and how dramatically the country's set up can be changed in a very short amount 07:01.166 --> 07:04.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% of time, especially if Republicans win all three branches of government. 07:06.100 --> 07:10.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% FRANKLIN FOER: Chilling. So, Francesca, all right, 07:10.200 --> 07:15.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% take us inside the Harris campaign. You cover the Harris campaign. Does it have a sense that 07:17.266 --> 07:22.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump has the upper hand? What's its strategy for this closing stretch of the campaign? 07:22.233 --> 07:24.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, White House Correspondent, USA Today: So, there's two very different 07:24.400 --> 07:29.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% strategies taking place here, the way that the Harris campaign sees it. With Donald Trump, 07:29.000 --> 07:34.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they see him having a ceiling of support and they feel like he is reaching that ceiling. 07:36.000 --> 07:39.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% With her, the vice president, you know, her ceiling isn't as well known because 07:39.400 --> 07:43.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% she hasn't been in the race for very long, but if you pay attention to just what she 07:43.300 --> 07:47.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% had in terms of support coming out of Joe Biden, dropping out of the race, 07:47.200 --> 07:52.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and there was all that enthusiasm for her, even though it's been within a point or two points, 07:53.833 --> 07:56.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% you did see those subtle shifts in the battleground states. Her way, 07:56.600 --> 08:01.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you were seeing in the RealClearPolitics average, that she was up in the battleground states. So, 08:03.433 --> 08:06.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% certainly, she could get back to that support and enthusiasm level among voters. 08:08.800 --> 08:12.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They feel like he's out there at his rallies trying to really fire up his base and turn 08:12.133 --> 08:16.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% them out while they're still in persuasion mode. They're still introducing her to people, 08:16.866 --> 08:19.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which, you know, when you're only a couple of weeks out from the election, 08:19.833 --> 08:24.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% still trying to persuade people to vote for you and tell them who you are, as to your point, 08:24.466 --> 08:28.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% maybe not where you want it, you want to be, but that is exactly where they are. 08:28.233 --> 08:32.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% So, at this point, she's trying what I call an all-of-the-above approach, 08:32.300 --> 08:37.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% which is reaching out to disaffected Republicans, trying to get those independents. You saw her 08:39.400 --> 08:43.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% just within like the same set of days, talk to black male voters as well as do a manufacturing 08:45.500 --> 08:49.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% event today and talk to laborers, so anything and anywhere that they think that she can do. 08:52.133 --> 08:56.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And I don't think it's a throw it at the wall and see what sticks, because it is really targeted and 08:58.533 --> 09:01.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% very intentional, but certainly they're trying to create a scenario so when they get to the end of 09:01.100 --> 09:05.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the election, it does not feel like, well, what if we had done this or what if we had just done that? 09:05.233 --> 09:08.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: So, Vivian, contrast that to the way the Trump campaign, I mean, 09:08.033 --> 09:10.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% you've given us a little bit of sense of how they're thinking about things. 09:10.833 --> 09:15.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But there's a clear strategy there about adding to the coalition at the same time 09:15.733 --> 09:19.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% they're revving up the base. How does that contrast to the way that Trump is? 09:19.700 --> 09:24.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% VIVIAN SALAMA: So, all along since, even before Kamala Harris entered the race as the lead, 09:26.200 --> 09:29.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as the presidential nominee, the Trump campaign maintained that 09:29.633 --> 09:34.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% she would probably get a bump in the polls partly due to the enthusiasm of the party, 09:34.266 --> 09:39.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% but that they kept on calling it a honeymoon, that eventually it would even out. And to an extent, 09:39.266 --> 09:43.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% we have seen that, and they point to that very heavily. They also believe 09:43.600 --> 09:47.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that some of the groups that they were really targeting, they had made a lot of advances, 09:47.400 --> 09:52.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% particularly with black men, as compared to previous cycles, not as compared to Democrats. 09:54.466 --> 09:59.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But Donald Trump is doing better this time around than he has in previous cycles with black men. 10:01.400 --> 10:04.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% They felt like they still were able to maintain a lot of those voters. A lot of black women peeled 10:06.433 --> 10:09.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% off and threw their support behind Harris when she became the presidential nominee. But black men, 10:11.700 --> 10:15.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% they believe a large number that were supporting them before she was the nominee, they still stayed 10:18.300 --> 10:22.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% with Trump because of his economic message. And that's where they draw the big contrast. They say, 10:22.066 --> 10:26.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because of the economic message and because of his hammering on immigration in particular, 10:26.466 --> 10:30.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they have maintained their base, but also managed to expand that base. 10:30.900 --> 10:35.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% The economy is the, they believe, that has enabled them to expand that base. 10:35.233 --> 10:40.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SUSAN GLASSER: What's really remarkable about that is that it's a strategy that relies on 10:40.133 --> 10:45.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% people ignoring Donald Trump and his inability to communicate even basic information. Republicans, 10:47.266 --> 10:51.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I mean, their success on one level is remarkable because, you know, here we are, and it's a dead 10:53.866 --> 10:56.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% even election, and they're, you know, polling strong on, you know, issues like the economy. 10:56.366 --> 11:01.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% On the other hand, Donald Trump appeared before the Chicago Economic Club this week. 11:01.233 --> 11:06.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He couldn't utter a coherent expression of what his policy would be. He has, 11:07.966 --> 11:11.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% as you know, offered an economic platform that economists, you know, 11:13.700 --> 11:16.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% non-partisan economists have said would add significantly to the deficit. He's talking 11:16.700 --> 11:21.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% about tariffs. He just throws numbers out there. He said, oh, tariffs of as high as 1, 000 percent. 11:24.033 --> 11:27.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% When he's asked basic questions, he starts to talk about, you know, sunbathing on the beach and, 11:29.433 --> 11:33.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you know, electric boats and things like that. And yet somehow this is translated 11:35.866 --> 11:40.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% through our political language into, oh, his economic policy. It's a remarkable 11:42.400 --> 11:44.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% feat. It tells you about American politics right now, that so much of the country is 11:44.633 --> 11:48.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% willing to vote for somebody whose policy is basically, I'm better than the other person. 11:48.666 --> 11:53.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% VIVIAN SALAMA: A lot of it is also used through enticing slogans. So, as you know, The Wall Street 11:53.033 --> 11:57.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Journal's tax reporter calls it, he calls it the no tax on something policy that Donald Trump has, 11:57.733 --> 12:02.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% where he said, no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime. And it's, it's 12:05.000 --> 12:08.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% very enticing for voters to hear. What they don't realize is how much it could drive up the deficit, 12:08.000 --> 12:13.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and so -- the national debt. And so it is a big problem that Donald Trump has not yet been able 12:15.100 --> 12:17.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to explain, but he goes out with the enticing slogans and people really rally behind him. 12:17.400 --> 12:20.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANCESCA CHAMBERS: So now, Vice President Harris has taken out her rallies more recently 12:20.466 --> 12:25.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to start playing clips of Donald Trump and what he's been saying out there to try and 12:25.400 --> 12:30.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% bring attention to some of the things that you said. But when it comes to her economic policies, 12:32.433 --> 12:35.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of course, Democrats are making the argument that she's putting forward plans of what she 12:35.133 --> 12:40.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% would do. The voters that we've been talking to, it's just not connecting with them directly. 12:42.033 --> 12:43.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: Yes. I want to play a clip. One of the things that she's done 12:43.900 --> 12:47.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in this past week is for the first time making a vowed break with the current 12:47.100 --> 12:52.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% occupant of the White House. I want to listen to what she said to Bret Baier. 12:54.033 --> 12:56.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% KAMALA HARRIS: Let me be very clear. My presidency will not be a continuation of 12:56.300 --> 13:01.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Joe Biden's presidency. And like every new president that comes into office, 13:03.366 --> 13:07.200 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% I will bring my life experiences, my professional experiences, and fresh and new ideas. 13:09.300 --> 13:11.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% FRANKLIN FOER: Is that too little too late? 13:11.600 --> 13:13.966 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% FRANCESCA CHAMBERS: Well, she actually went a little bit further than that in an NBC interview 13:13.966 --> 13:18.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% today with Peter Alexander, and he asked her about Biden essentially giving her permission structure 13:21.000 --> 13:23.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to say that she'd do something different than him. And she didn't want to criticize the president. 13:23.333 --> 13:28.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% She said she didn't think it would be productive for their relationship. But she did go on to say 13:30.200 --> 13:33.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that her expansion of Medicare to include home health and to talk about her first time 13:35.733 --> 13:39.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% home buyer credit were things that she would do differently. So, she is inching towards that but, 13:41.400 --> 13:45.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% repeatedly, she has declined to say what she would do differently from Biden. 13:48.000 --> 13:50.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But what I was referring to before in terms of it just not connecting with people is that 13:50.500 --> 13:55.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% voters have been saying that they just don't understand how her economic policies will help 13:55.533 --> 14:00.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% them personally when she goes out there and she talks about all the tax breaks and tax credits 14:02.533 --> 14:06.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and talks it more of the 30,000-foot level. That isn't always connecting with someone who 14:08.300 --> 14:12.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% might have diabetes directly and know how she wants to cap the cost of insulin and how that 14:14.433 --> 14:19.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% would help them. And we've heard from voters that they feel that in their communities, 14:19.400 --> 14:24.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they need to hear, you know, more directly from her how it would make their lives better. 14:26.566 --> 14:29.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% PETER BAKER: So, I think that, of course, the difference between Biden and Harris on the home 14:29.500 --> 14:33.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% health care is not significant in the sense that like Biden's not going to disagree with her 14:33.800 --> 14:38.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% saying, oh, no, I don't think you should do that. He might not have opposed himself, but he's not, 14:38.066 --> 14:43.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you know, ideologically against this. So, it's not really making a huge break from Biden to say, I'm 14:45.333 --> 14:47.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% going to do something he didn't do. What people are looking for when they talk about a break from 14:47.566 --> 14:51.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Biden is particularly what is it, what would her position be on Israel and the Middle East? 14:51.200 --> 14:55.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, of course, we had the killing this week of Sinwar, the leader of Hamas. And 14:55.233 --> 14:59.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% what Biden quickly said was, let's use that as a way to wrap up the war. Israel, you won, declare 14:59.500 --> 15:04.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% victory and let's get out of this. And what a lot of people on the left, not just Arab-Americans, 15:06.600 --> 15:09.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but also younger voters, want to hear from Kamala Harris that she's going to do something 15:09.500 --> 15:13.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% different than Joe Biden, because they've been upset with Joe Biden for being too pro-Israel. 15:13.233 --> 15:17.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But she's walking a tight line because she can't break with Biden on that without losing 15:17.900 --> 15:21.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% or at least risking losing people who are more pro-Israel. She's going to get hit 15:21.200 --> 15:24.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% from both sides. She's literally getting hit from both sides by the same organization in 15:24.133 --> 15:29.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Pennsylvania. She's putting out ads saying to the Jewish Americans, she's really not for you, 15:31.400 --> 15:34.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and to Muslim Americans saying she's really for Israel, and they're trying to play it both ways. 15:34.333 --> 15:38.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SUSAN GLASSER: And, by the way, that's from Elon Musk, and that's another factor, 15:38.033 --> 15:43.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you know, that I think has become very apparent in the late stages of this campaign. The fusion 15:45.300 --> 15:48.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% between Donald Trump and the world's richest man is, you know, even though we've seen, you know, 15:50.366 --> 15:54.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% the influence of money in politics, you know, forever in our politics, 15:54.700 --> 15:59.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% the amounts of money in Watergate paled in comparison to what we're talking about today 16:02.033 --> 16:05.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% is an extraordinary fusion between Donald Trump and a small handful of the wealthiest people in 16:07.266 --> 16:11.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% the world. The spectacle of Musk actually on stage campaigning for Trump, remarkable one, I think. 16:13.733 --> 16:16.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: Yes. Well, this takes us back to the democracy question, of course. And as you 16:16.400 --> 16:21.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% said earlier, the weird critique of Trump has kind of lost steam and Kamala Harris is returning back 16:23.666 --> 16:28.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to this democracy argument, which she'd abandoned in the first place because it wasn't effective. 16:30.700 --> 16:33.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And so, Vivian, is there any reason to believe that the democracy argument is going to catch now? 16:35.800 --> 16:39.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% VIVAN SALAMA: I mean, I think Susan started the conversation by saying that people know -- maybe 16:39.600 --> 16:43.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it was Peter, sorry, that said, everyone knows who Donald Trump is at this point, 16:43.400 --> 16:48.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and I don't think it's going to necessarily sway people in the final two weeks. The Harris 16:50.233 --> 16:53.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% campaign would like to remind people, particularly with January 6th images 16:53.333 --> 16:57.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and sort of the mayhem that could be attached to a Trump presidency. 16:57.900 --> 17:02.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But at this point, I mean, Trump has also pushed back on that narrative so hard, he's called them 17:02.533 --> 17:07.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% freedom-loving patriots and has really defended a lot of the people that have gone out there who 17:09.600 --> 17:14.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% took very violent actions in the Capitol that day. And so it's hard to imagine it swaying 17:16.566 --> 17:19.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% anyone at the last minute. There could be some undecided voters who are swayed at the last minute 17:19.833 --> 17:24.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% if something kind of clicks if they're at the polling station and see his name in front of them. 17:24.300 --> 17:28.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: But it's worth -- I want to play some of the footage of Trump talking about 17:30.733 --> 17:34.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the threat within, because I think it's worth hearing it from his own words. 17:36.766 --> 17:39.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DONALD TRUMP: I think the bigger problem is the enemy from within. And we have some very 17:39.266 --> 17:44.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% bad people, we have some sick people, radical left lunatics. And I think they're the -- and it should 17:46.633 --> 17:50.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% be very easily handled, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military. 17:52.300 --> 17:54.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% FRANKLIN FOER: Susan, you and Peter wrote an excellent book about Donald 17:54.400 --> 17:59.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump. Is that Donald Trump different than the guy who left the White House? 18:01.533 --> 18:03.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SUSAN GLASSER: That Donald Trump is the man who spent the entire last year of his presidency 18:03.866 --> 18:08.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% trying to use the military against American people in the streets exercising their First 18:10.800 --> 18:13.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Amendment rights. Where Donald Trump has escalated the rhetoric, and, by the way, 18:13.033 --> 18:18.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he's often used the language of pure dictatorship when he has called his enemies vermin, 18:20.133 --> 18:24.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% enemies of the people, this is the language, you know, that is resonant to anyone who studied, 18:24.000 --> 18:26.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% you know, Russian history. It comes straight from the Soviet past. 18:26.833 --> 18:31.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But where he's escalated, Frank, I think is he wanted to use the 18:31.000 --> 18:36.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% American military in the summer of 2020. He was constrained by his own attorney general, 18:37.900 --> 18:40.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% his own defense secretary, his own chairman of the Joint Chiefs. First of all, 18:40.400 --> 18:43.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% he's not going to have those kinds of people around him in a second term. And, 18:43.866 --> 18:48.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% second of all, he's now outright saying, if you disagree with him in the election, 18:48.100 --> 18:52.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that's what he wants to call the military out for now. That's really a chilling thought. 18:52.400 --> 18:56.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANKLIN FOER: Francesca, when Kamala Harris, this week, for the first time, used the fascist 18:56.466 --> 19:01.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% label to describe, do you have any sense of what her thinking was when she made that term? 19:03.400 --> 19:05.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANCESCA CHAMBERS: I think, Peter, you were touching on a really important point 19:05.600 --> 19:08.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% about this when it comes to the couch sitters and trying to get 19:08.700 --> 19:12.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% them out. It's not just the folks who voted for Joe Biden in 2020. There's 19:12.800 --> 19:16.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% this whole other subset of people who maybe voted for Donald Trump in 2020, 19:16.433 --> 19:21.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% who were thinking about sitting this election out because maybe they don't want to bring themselves 19:21.266 --> 19:26.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to vote for a Democrat in the election, but they also can't vote for Kamala Harris. 19:28.366 --> 19:32.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so a lot of this is aimed at trying to get those folks up off the couch and out to the 19:34.600 --> 19:38.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% polls. It's those disaffected Republicans. It's the independents. We saw her this week campaign 19:40.333 --> 19:43.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with Adam Kinzinger. She's been doing events with Liz Cheney as well, former members of the 19:46.066 --> 19:49.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Bush administration, the Romney campaign. That at this point seems to be a big part of how they 19:51.966 --> 19:56.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% think they could expand their electorate, is to get the anti-Trump Republicans to vote for her. 19:58.233 --> 20:02.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Now, to your point, you know, is that really going to work? Are they really 20:02.833 --> 20:07.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% going to be able to turn all these Nikki Haley voters in Pennsylvania 20:07.000 --> 20:11.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and all these other places out to vote for her? It wasn't working for 20:11.100 --> 20:15.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Joe Biden. Perhaps they think that the -- it was the messenger and not the message. 20:15.700 --> 20:19.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% VIVAN SALAMA: I mean, Nikki Haley herself has endorsed him at this point. So -- 20:19.566 --> 20:21.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FRANCESCA CHAMBERS: Right. And a number of those, and as I've written about, 20:21.733 --> 20:25.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a number of those even national security-type Republicans have 20:25.600 --> 20:29.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% said that they're not voting for Kamala Harris in this election.