WEBVTT 00:01.433 --> 00:03.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So, imagine this, a woman of black and Asian descent, 00:03.333 --> 00:06.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% who was a failed candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2020, 00:06.933 --> 00:11.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and who was a semi-marginalized vice president in a fairly unpopular administration, 00:11.733 --> 00:16.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% may beat a former president of the United States in the race for the White House. 00:16.200 --> 00:21.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% This is completely improbable. But what is also completely improbable is that the former president 00:23.233 --> 00:26.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% she's trying to beat is a convicted felon who encouraged a violent insurrection against the 00:28.366 --> 00:31.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% constitutional order and who has promised to be a dictator on his first day back in office. 00:33.200 --> 00:35.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% It's all a bit much when you think about it, but it's not too much for our panel 00:35.366 --> 00:40.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% tonight. Peter Baker is Chief White House Correspondent at The New York Times. McKay 00:42.233 --> 00:45.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Coppins is my colleague and a staff writer for The Atlantic. Eugene Daniels is White 00:45.266 --> 00:50.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% House correspondent and co-author of Playbook at Politico. And Vivian Salama is national 00:52.133 --> 00:55.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% politics reporter for The Wall Street Journal. So, thanks all for being here. 00:55.200 --> 01:00.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% National political politics, I know, it's all one long word. 01:01.600 --> 01:03.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Thank you all for being here. We have a lot to get to. 01:05.966 --> 01:09.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The only thing that I ask tonight is that we don't use the expression, vibe shift, 01:11.166 --> 01:14.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because I'd think it's too much with the vibes. But -- no, no, 01:14.066 --> 01:19.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% no, no, no, it's like everybody gets one vibe. You can't get one vibe in the next half hour. 01:21.166 --> 01:24.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, Peter, let's start with you. I want you all to frame out some big picture subjects 01:26.833 --> 01:30.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for us tonight. How did we get here to that situation that I just described? 01:32.866 --> 01:35.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% PETER BAKER, Chief White House Correspondent, The New York Times: Well, it is worth stopping 01:35.033 --> 01:38.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for a moment and thinking about what this year has been like, right? And you alluded to this. 01:38.533 --> 01:43.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% We have a president on trial for the first time in our history convicted of 34 felonies. We have 01:45.766 --> 01:48.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% a Supreme Court that then steps in and says, well, maybe presidents actually have immunity 01:48.133 --> 01:52.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% even though it's not in the Constitution anywhere to be found. We have an aging president just, 01:54.466 --> 01:57.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you know, fading before our eyes, forced out of the race by his own allies, very dramatic 01:57.533 --> 02:02.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% moment. Not even the most dramatic moment of the year. Then his vice president, as you say, 02:02.000 --> 02:07.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% a woman of color, the first nominated ever for president by a major party, 02:08.900 --> 02:11.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and then, of course, two assassination attempts. I mean, you wouldn't make this 02:11.133 --> 02:14.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% stuff up if we had started the year this way. Although maybe you would have, I don't know. 02:14.133 --> 02:15.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right, not me. PETER BAKER: You're more creative than I am. 02:17.500 --> 02:20.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What's really profound about this, though, is what we're going to learn about ourselves, 02:20.333 --> 02:24.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think, our country, this next week. And I know that sounds, you know, whatever, 02:24.500 --> 02:29.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but it's true. We're in such a polarized moment. This race, whatever it's going to be, 02:29.500 --> 02:34.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as you say, we may not know even by this time next week. It's at best a 51-49 country, 02:36.633 --> 02:40.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? And whoever wins is not going to be able to pull them together. Trump won't try. It's 02:42.533 --> 02:44.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not in his nature. Harris says she will, but, let's face it, it doesn't seem very likely. 02:44.900 --> 02:49.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It wasn't that long ago we had presidents like Clinton or Bush or Reagan who -- Obama, 02:49.466 --> 02:53.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% who could get into the 60s when it came to their approval rating, who could earn the support of 02:53.266 --> 02:56.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% people who don't necessarily support them by doing something that they like or not like. 02:56.400 --> 02:58.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: But Obama is an interesting example, 02:58.433 --> 03:03.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% of a hugely talented politician who -- one of the most talented politicians in 03:04.933 --> 03:07.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% the last 50 years, who couldn't get at that stage in American history. 03:07.266 --> 03:10.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% PETER BAKER: Not in a sustained way command. And ever since then, basically, 03:10.900 --> 03:15.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we have not had a president over 50 percent for a sustained period in almost 20 years. 03:18.166 --> 03:21.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: So, what I'm hearing you say is that past Tuesday, even if we know on Wednesday, 03:23.666 --> 03:25.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% say, who the next president is going to be, we're not past any of this. 03:25.533 --> 03:27.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% PETER BAKER: We're not past any of it. And we're not going to be past 03:27.833 --> 03:30.966 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% any of it on January 20th, even once we have actually inaugurated whoever it's going to be. 03:30.966 --> 03:35.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right. McKay, let me ask you a question about the Republican Party 03:35.000 --> 03:40.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% covering a lot in recent years. So, this is the third time in a row that Donald Trump is 03:42.000 --> 03:45.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the nominee of the Republican Party. I read somewhere today that a 30-year-old voter 03:45.200 --> 03:49.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% has never had the opportunity to vote for a Republican nominee other than Donald Trump, 03:49.633 --> 03:54.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% going back to Mitt Romney, I guess, if they were 18. Is there a non-Trump 03:56.533 --> 04:01.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% component of the Republican Party at all, or has the takeover been complete? 04:03.633 --> 04:05.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MCKAY COPPINS, Staff Writer, The Atlantic: The takeover has been complete for a long time, 04:05.700 --> 04:08.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but there's always a faction of dissidents. They've just been 04:08.833 --> 04:13.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% completely pushed out of the party or any kind of influential portion of the party. 04:13.800 --> 04:18.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Another way to think about this is if you're an 18-year-old American casting your first vote, 04:19.966 --> 04:21.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Donald Trump has been running for president since you were nine years 04:21.800 --> 04:25.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% old. Your entire political consciousness, the GOP, 04:25.633 --> 04:30.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% has been defined by Donald Trump. You don't remember Ronald Reagan, certainly the Bush's, 04:32.766 --> 04:35.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% probably not even Mitt Romney. The conservatism in America is Donald Trump to you, right? 04:37.700 --> 04:42.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I've been talking the last few weeks to Republican officials, current, 04:42.466 --> 04:47.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% former elected officials, strategists, donors, and to varying degrees, they're outside of the 04:49.500 --> 04:52.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MAGA coalition. And all of them have kind of been asking themselves this question, 04:54.333 --> 04:57.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% how did we let this happen? Because if you look at the party over the 04:57.033 --> 05:01.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% last basically decade, there are a ton of off-ramps they could have taken. 05:01.466 --> 05:06.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% All the way back to 2015, when Trump first started running and he denigrated 05:06.066 --> 05:11.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% John McCain's military service, there was a minor eruption of outrage and then nothing, 05:13.400 --> 05:17.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% right? And you go through the Access Hollywood tape in 2016, the first impeachment trial in 2020, 05:19.466 --> 05:24.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% certainly after January 6th, the second impeachment trial. There are all these moments 05:24.200 --> 05:29.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that the Republican Party could have, like the Democratic Party did with Joe Biden, coalesced, 05:31.433 --> 05:35.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% right. The donors, the elected officials, the conservative media could have come together and 05:37.233 --> 05:41.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% decided to take a stand against Trump, but they couldn't muster the collective action. 05:42.966 --> 05:46.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And what's happened is that Trump has remade the Republican Party in a bunch 05:46.500 --> 05:51.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% of different ways. Ideologically, it's more nationalistic, more nativist, certainly, 05:53.466 --> 05:58.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in the sense that it has become a cult of personality where his lies and distortions 06:00.433 --> 06:03.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and conspiracy theories are indulged by almost every elected official in his party. 06:05.933 --> 06:09.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Where the party goes from here is an interesting question. But when I talk to these Republicans, 06:09.500 --> 06:14.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they're so kind of scarred from the last decade, that a lot of them say, 06:14.066 --> 06:18.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% whether Trump wins or loses, we're not sure we'll be rid of him. You know, 06:18.466 --> 06:23.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% maybe he'll run again in four years, maybe he'll decide to play kingmaker, but the party 06:23.000 --> 06:27.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that he has remade in his image is not going to change overnight, no matter what happens next. 06:27.600 --> 06:31.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Eugene, let's talk about the Democrats for a minute. So, Kamala Harris, 06:31.933 --> 06:36.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% previously identified at least as, you know, San Francisco liberal, has been running a 06:39.166 --> 06:42.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% very carefully calibrated, centrist, campaign, not much in identity politics at all. I mean, 06:44.233 --> 06:48.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the fact that she's a woman this far away from the White House has not been part of 06:48.733 --> 06:52.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the discussion in the same way that it was certainly around Hillary Clinton. 06:54.266 --> 06:58.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% If this works, if this improbable campaign that started only four months ago essentially works, 07:00.233 --> 07:03.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what does it mean for the future of the Democratic Party? Is she -- does she 07:06.133 --> 07:09.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% govern as a centrist if she becomes president, or where is the, the middle of the party right now? 07:11.400 --> 07:13.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% EUGENE DANIELS, White House Correspondent, POLITICO: You know, there's a couple of different 07:13.566 --> 07:16.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% aspects to this. First is, the Kamala Harris that ran in 2019 I don't think is the real 07:16.833 --> 07:21.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Kamala Harris, right? The ideological aspect of her race was not there. Because, you know, if 07:23.733 --> 07:26.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% you watched it, it felt disingenuous. We're talking in the green room earlier, 07:26.866 --> 07:30.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and that's because that's not how she actually feels. I think the person you're watching now, 07:30.733 --> 07:33.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and the policies that she's talking about, the ones that they worked on 07:33.800 --> 07:38.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% in the Biden-Harris administration, and the ones that she's added, that's who Kamala Harris is. 07:40.200 --> 07:43.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% That is how she wants to govern. She also will be forced into governing as a centrist, 07:43.033 --> 07:47.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? It is very likely that there's going to be at least one chamber in Congress that 07:47.233 --> 07:52.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% has Republicans. She's going to have to bend and try to compromise in ways that 07:53.700 --> 07:57.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a San Francisco liberal wouldn't want to and would fight more on. 07:57.666 --> 08:02.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think as -- when you talk to black women, especially in politics, what they'll tell you 08:04.800 --> 08:08.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is that the first black woman who would be president cannot go in there as some liberal 08:10.166 --> 08:13.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% flipping the table. They will have to figure out how to get to be in the middle because even the, 08:16.166 --> 08:18.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you know, liberal white voters that voted for her and the moderate white voters that voted for her, 08:18.633 --> 08:21.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% they're going to look at her already as one thing and she has to kind of 08:21.500 --> 08:25.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% find a way to keep that coalition together that she's been building over this time. 08:25.666 --> 08:29.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I will say the tension point, if she does win, January 20th, 08:29.866 --> 08:33.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% all the -- if you've been paying attention over the last 100-plus days, 08:33.633 --> 08:36.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% the leftist groups have been kind of like letting her go, right? Like you're 08:36.900 --> 08:41.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not hearing a lot of complaining from folks on climate change or on any of the other issues, 08:43.800 --> 08:47.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% gun control, gun safety. On January 20th, they have already said like, it's on, 08:47.400 --> 08:51.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% right? They want to get through this election. And if she's going to win, they're ready to battle her 08:51.433 --> 08:55.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and try to push her to the left and she's going to have to kind of stand firm. That's where -- 08:55.500 --> 08:58.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: That's very interesting, because you're saying if she did win the presidency, 08:58.466 --> 09:03.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% she'd be stuck between, let's assume for the moment, a pretty hard right Senate Republican 09:05.433 --> 09:09.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% leadership and a leftist coalition that believes it got her into office. So, I mean, 09:11.466 --> 09:16.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% it doesn't -- going back to sort of what Peter said, it's like this is not -- Tuesday represents 09:18.633 --> 09:22.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% the end of -- possible end of one type of uncertainty, but we're in this polarization for -- 09:24.133 --> 09:29.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% EUGENE DANIELS: And what it reminds us is that the Democratic Party continues to be 09:31.233 --> 09:35.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a more centrist party, right? When you look at Obama, who despite what people thought 09:37.833 --> 09:40.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% kind of operated as a centrist, Biden, centrist, Kamala Harris, a centrist, 09:40.500 --> 09:45.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the base of the Democratic Party continues to be black voters. They are still more centrist and 09:45.033 --> 09:50.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% more pragmatic as opposed to ideological. And so the takeover of the Democratic Party as a 09:52.300 --> 09:55.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Republican Party has found out it hasn't happened on the Democratic Party, to say it with the left. 09:57.733 --> 10:00.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Vivian, talk about the coming days. No predictions. I'm not asking you to tell 10:02.600 --> 10:04.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% me who's going to win. I'd like you to tell me who's going to win, but I don't expect it. 10:04.600 --> 10:06.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% MCKAY COPPINS: If you know, please tell us. 10:06.633 --> 10:07.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% VIVIAN SALAMA, National Politics Reporter, The Wall Street Journal: I don't think 10:07.633 --> 10:09.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% I'd be doing this -- 10:09.100 --> 10:11.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: No, no, no, no, no, no. She knows. 10:11.066 --> 10:13.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% MCKAY COPPINS: There are betting markets. 10:13.533 --> 10:17.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Somehow, she knows. I know that she knows. But give us a couple 10:19.966 --> 10:24.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of likely outcomes or processes that we're going to see kick into motion after Tuesday. 10:28.133 --> 10:31.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% VIVIAN SALAMA: Well, let's put it this way. I'm booked to be in Palm Beach next week with 10:31.533 --> 10:35.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Donald Trump, and right now, my return ticket is Thursday. Maybe it'll be bumped to Friday, 10:35.966 --> 10:39.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so we don't actually know. The likelihood that we will have 10:39.500 --> 10:44.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% the results on Tuesday is a stretch. It could happen, but it's a stretch. 10:44.433 --> 10:46.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But let's talk about scenarios. 10:46.633 --> 10:49.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: It would have to be a blowout. It would have to be a Trump blowout probably. 10:49.466 --> 10:51.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% VIVIAN SALAMA: It would have to be a blowout by one or the other, right? 10:51.833 --> 10:55.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Well, no. But my point is that if Kamala Harris wins by a lot, 10:55.933 --> 10:58.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% there's no expectation that Donald Trump will accept that. He's certainly not 10:58.966 --> 11:01.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% going to accept a squeaker, but he's not going to accept that. 11:01.933 --> 11:05.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% VIVIAN SALAMA: Right. And so I think we're looking more and more likely that we're going 11:05.500 --> 11:10.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to have a squeaker scenario. So, either Harris wins in a squeaker, and how does that happen. 11:10.466 --> 11:14.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The most likely path is that she gets that blue wall that we talk about all the time, 11:14.933 --> 11:19.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, throw in maybe the second congressional district 11:22.000 --> 11:24.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in Nebraska where she's doing quite well, and you have a win there. And that probably 11:24.500 --> 11:29.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% would be propelled by older white voters that would be turning out for her and also women. 11:31.466 --> 11:35.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The opposite, a Trump squeaker, which the campaign all along has said Pennsylvania, 11:35.400 --> 11:40.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% North Carolina, Georgia are the must-win states for them. That would be absolutely essential, 11:40.333 --> 11:43.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and that would probably be credited to more black and Hispanic voters, 11:43.533 --> 11:46.133 align:left position:30% line:77% size:60% definitely black voters especially, turning out for Trump. 11:46.133 --> 11:50.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And so those are the scenarios that we are most likely looking at. There are tons of scenarios we 11:50.433 --> 11:54.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% could sit here and talk about, it would take the whole show. But we're going to focus on those. 11:54.700 --> 11:59.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now, just like you said, if we are sitting there, if I'm sitting in Palm Beach next week, 12:02.066 --> 12:04.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and we have a race that is too close to call, or a potential Harris victory, does Trump accept that? 12:07.200 --> 12:10.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% He's already started talking about voter fraud in Pennsylvania. He has credited law enforcement for 12:10.666 --> 12:15.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% doing such a good job in getting ahead of it. But he's already starting to float that phrase around. 12:18.033 --> 12:21.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% We have seen them worry about states like Arizona, where we saw the drama unfold in 2020 in Maricopa 12:23.866 --> 12:27.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% County with audits and claims of election fraud. And so there's already sort of this bubbling up. 12:29.700 --> 12:34.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, he was talking yesterday about, you know, if God came down and were the vote counter, 12:36.500 --> 12:39.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% how different the, the results would be. He was talking about how Hispanics love him and he said 12:39.266 --> 12:43.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% he would win California in a landslide if God were the vote counter, because that's how it is. 12:43.433 --> 12:45.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So, he's obviously still very -- 12:45.233 --> 12:47.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: I would like to interview God on that question. 12:47.300 --> 12:51.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% VIVIAN SALAMA: I mean, you know, I'm just saying that now that now I'm skeptical, 12:51.633 --> 12:56.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% but, you know, what do I know? I'm not going to debate God. But, I mean, 12:58.900 --> 13:02.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that's sort of where his mindset is. And, of course that's probably an extreme case. 13:02.933 --> 13:07.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But it shows you that he's already sort of throwing that out there now, 13:07.133 --> 13:12.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% trying to line that scenario up. You know, if the reverse were true, and we saw that Trump had a 13:14.466 --> 13:17.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% comfortable lead by Tuesday or were to win in a blowout, for example, would we see the opposite? 13:17.633 --> 13:22.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Unlikely. I think Vice President Harris would most likely accept the results, pretty quickly concede, 13:24.666 --> 13:28.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and sort of go along with the democratic process. And so we shall see what happens. 13:28.700 --> 13:33.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But everyone is worried about what comes next, just as much as they're worried about -- 13:33.133 --> 13:34.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: What's your worst case scenario? 13:34.666 --> 13:38.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean that in a nonpartisan way, in terms of chaos or -- 13:38.433 --> 13:43.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% VIVIAN SALAMA: I mean, violence, of course. And it's not farfetched. It's something that we saw 13:45.566 --> 13:48.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% happen. All of us live in the D.C. area. We saw it firsthand at the Capitol. I mean, I had to 13:51.233 --> 13:54.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% fall back because it got so violent on January 6th, 2020. And that is something very realistic.